Mercedes GLE 450e Has Huge PHEV Range & Insanely Fast DC Fast Charging
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- čas přidán 3. 08. 2024
- Kyle tests one of the coolest plug-in hybrid SUVs on the market today, the Mercedes GLE 450e 4MATIC! Check out the highway and city range tests as well as the AC and DC charge tests.
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0:00 - Hello & Welcome
1:18 - What To Expect
2:29 - DC Fast Charging / Charging Curve
13:06 - 70-MPH Highway EV Range Test
23:16 - City EV Range Test
27:30 - Final Result / AC Charging
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#mercedes #gle450e #phev - Auta a dopravní prostředky
That was the calmest reaction to a bee I've ever seen 😅
For the camera maybe lol, as someone that's also bee-phobic I can see the terror in his eyes.
I think that was a wasp.
You should see me I love bees! 🐝
Nothing scary about a bee
Thank you for this awesome review and helping me decide for an upgrade ❤❤❤
amazing review! and this information was what I wanna know about this car. Thank you!
I like your review because you did both city and Highway examples. I like the fast charging if needed or wanted. It is not ideal or cost effective for this car to stop for fast charging. Drive one hour, charge for half an hour. But for day to day zero gas and charging at home, it has excellent range. If you live up to 30 miles away from work, no gas would be used all week. Thank you.
Great video. Just picked up my new 450e today. Very exited. My first plug in I’ve ever owned. Can’t wait to learn tricks.
how's your new car so far?
Anything that enables more electric driving is good, IMO, so I'm a big fan of DC charging on hybrids. I had a CLA 250e with the CCS option and used it fairly regularly, meaning that I was able to go about 5 months without the engine kicking on, even with some moderate distances. Of course it goes without saying that hybrids should take care to never block an EV from charging, even at an AC destination charger, ideally.
I have GLE 350de, it is sold in Europe for few years. It DC fast-charges even better, starts to taper well after 90.
DC fast charging for PHEVs is definitely a nice to have. Especially for the cars marketed as family cars. For example the PHEV Pacifica or the upcoming Wagoneer 4xe. That would make perfect sense for families. Electric for the work commute and errands with kids to school and sports practice and what not. And for the long family trip you'll get the extra efficiency instead of lugging around deadweight.
It's a waste. Most PHEV's charge at home. We have gas tanks when we need to go further than 50+ miles...which is rare for me at least
MB should make it an option. Those who are not going to use it should not pay the thing that is of no use for them.
I love these Plug in Hyrid videos . Kyle you have to do the King of all Hyrids . That is the Toyota Prius Prime
Hey Kyle, It would be nice if you would review the headlight performance on the vehicles you get to drive. I haven't found a single automotive reviewer that does that which amazes me because good headlights are a very important safety feature. I always enjoy your reviews.
Chad Haire and Prime Autotainment does
Love to see you guys test the new Prius prime
Nice that the car shows you that many stats!
The bee thinks your just too sweet! 😂 Very nice and smart SUV!
Love to see you guys test the new Prius prime. It claims to have 40 miles on the pure ev mode!
I’m waiting for you to compare this Mercedes plug-in vehicle to the 2024 BMW X5 50e! 🙂
Kyle when will you drop your complete glc450e review? Enjoyed your electric battery review. Is there a better suv plugin?
Great review. Could you also do a review of the BMW X5 50e by comparison?
Kyle, You forgot to mention that the new Range Rover p440e and 550e and Range Rover Sport Autobiography also has 50kw DC fast charging and has one of the biggest battery packs amongst all PHEVs
Fast charging a PHEV isn't really needed and can cost more then just buying gas. Say you got 25mpg for 58 miles it would take 2.3 gallons, at $3.99 that would cost $9.25 in gas but it was $10 to charge it. The only way to make a PHEV work is to charge it at home daily to get the lowest power costs, paying to public charge isn't worth the effort. Many people buy PHEVs then just stop charging it after a short time and drive it as a hybrid. We had a Kia PHEV and it ended up being too much work, plug it in 2 times a day, still buy gas and get regular oil changes. Didn't keep it long and got an Ioniq 5. This would be an improvement with nearly double the range but it still would require nearly a 100% discharge / charge cycle every day and the battery life may not be great.
If you're buying a vehicle like this, you're not sweating the "fill-up" costs, whether gas or electrons. It's more of a convenience thing.
Super impressive range. This would be a contender in my search for a new car if not for the 4 cylinder engine. The X5 50e is the clear winner here.
Agree! Not sure why they went with a 4. That's fine for the GLC phev but not the larger GLE.
Thought the 450 designation usually means 6 cylinder. Bait and switch
I like the idea of DC fast charging being available for PHEVs, especially those with longer ranges. However, I don't consider them necessary and probably wouldn't spend much money on it if it was an upgrade.
Perfect for my driving needs - mostly around town. BUT since it the first generation PHEV for teh GLE, going to hold off at least a year to see if there are any major issues. Definitely top of my list right now. Great review!
might be for america. here in europe it is already the second generation. First gen was from 2020 to 2023.
@@DerDoJoDang, what was the electric range on the 1st gen?
You should buy an EV - less complex vehicle - cheaper to own long term.
@@andersn8547 PHEV are almost the same price and actually cheaper as you move out on the curve of ownership. Also the PHEV puts less strain on both the engine and battery so it lasts double as long as an EV. Not to mention the obvious benefits of a car that can easily do road trips and much longer range...
Yeah - two drivetrains in one car must be a plus - lol @@pete64041
Have you ever done the Pacifica hybrid?
We like ours, PHEV-33Mi from 16kWh....
Are you doing more in-depth review of this car, covering topics like you did with the GLS earlier this year?
Does it show you what gear you're in? I'd still really like to see a little better EV only power, but it really doesn't sound too bad.
Did they say anything about the battery chemistry? A small hard worked battery almost seems like a prime candidate for LiFePO4 type chemistry, it at least has to handle some pretty large C ratings in and out even when used in mild hybrid type modes.
Has he said anything about the hogback ioniq5 test they said they were going to do?
DC fast charging is a big yes for my next PHEV. When taking weekend or longer vacations I rather fast charge 20 mins than finding a place to plug for hours or come back with empty battery.
Can you do a phev review on the Toyota Rav4 phev please
I have always wondered about PHEV's, how far can you go with the battery at 100% and the fuel tank full?
Hi Kyle, any ETA on the full video on your other channel ?
Yes, can’t wait. Would love to see the full review.
Couldnt find the full review you mentioned on the KC channel?
I'm waiting for the new GLC phev. I'd like the coupe version. It'll have great electric only range too!
You never posted the full review…
The Mitsubishi Outlander phev does too.
is this shot on the 15 pro Max?
As an X5 PHEV owner, the only two things I like about the GLE PHEV is, the DC fast charging, surely helps in long trips to top up the EV range than hauling around a dead battery! Second for sure is the rear seat leg room. The X5 leg room while sufficient is barely bigger than a midsize CUV. Sedans like Accord and Camry have way more rear leg room. Not sure how BMW screwed up the rear leg room. But in all other aspects, the BMW outclasses this Benz easily.
Thanks, Kyle.
?: do you get to drive your gorgeous Polestar Uno much?? 🤙🏼
DCFC maybe warranted for this GLE for use cases where someone needs to travel or commute say 70-100 miles (in all kinds of weather) and is lucky enough to have a DCFC in between. Also PHEV maybe an insurance policy for misbehaving charging stations. Will MB PHEV’s also be NACS compliant or just their BEV’s???
My new GLE 450e has a serious safety issue. Picked up my new 2024 GLE 450e with 8 miles on it on 6/26/24. Inspection at pickup was unremarkable. WIthin two hours, with 16 miles on it, the hood latch alarm activated. Visual inspection showed right side of hood was raised about 1/4 inch above fender. Drove directly to dealer, and service tech opened and closed hood, commenting on the light lever feel. Drove in parking lot with tech and the hood unlatched on its own. I now have a loaner, and the future of this car is yet to be determined. How did this car pass inspections at the factory and at the dealer?
I wonder with all the companies switching to NACS, will their PHEVs also get NACS and will that allow for DC fast charging?
Yes, all cars produced in the US in the future, starting around 2024-2025 will switch to NACS. For those cars that already have CCS installed, there will be adapters. Something we should have had years ago, it Tesla weren't being twats about it.
I’m a realist and I believe we need more PHEVs than BEVs for the next few years. Gas tech is old and very established, reliable, installed everywhere, inexpensive. Electric is new, growing, better, but expensive and still not fully realistic for most people.
The combined power is so much more powerful and flexible than either individually. Getting even a few people into a PHEV instead of an ICE is a huge win.
However, DC-fast on a PHEV isn’t necessary - it’s a flex, but it’s not really important.
And this being ~3 tons is a far cry from a win. That sucks.
That’s amazing range 58 and 68
Can it be flat towed behind a RV?
One thing I think is worth mentioning. The whole point of a plug-in hybrid is to not use gas for days when you just run a few errands around town. But there is little point to it is the electric motor costs three twice as much per mile as the gas engine, and this is the case for many of the high-speed charging stations. The other day, I did a quick 20-minute full charge (which gets you about 48 miles on this vehicle) and they charged my $0.65 per kWh. The car took a total of 29 kWh to charge which came to just under $20. Quick math says that's like 42 cents a mile,. The gas engine gets at least 17 mpg (24 highway) which is at least 23 cents a mile at today's gas price (93 octane). I'm going to pay double to run on electric?? No way, Jose. The good news is that if you charge from home, even at our Massachusetts power rates (which suck), I can drive the car on electric for $0.17 a mile which is awesome. The big payoff is that combining the electric and the gas lets you use both drives where they shine: The electric for toque at startup and acceleration, and the gas for steady driving. I have driven the car about 450 miles now and I still have 1/2 of the tank of gas the dealer gave me.
I am strongly considering this GLE 450e because of this review; I didn't even know about it before, and never considered buying a Mercedes before. I've now test-driven four different GLE 450e cars at four different dealerships. It appears that -- unlike most PHEVs -- the GLE 450e cannot charge the traction battery off the ICE (something that is very useful on long road trips, where you want all-electric driving in stop-and-go traffic instead of having the ICE coming on and going off, and wasting gas that way through the inefficient city driving of ICEVs). So, for me, the ability to fast-charge on a long road trip helps make up for the lack of self-ICE-charging. I do lots of long road trips every year, so this is important to me. If the GLE 450e was identical to what it is but without the ability to DC-fast-charge, I wouldn't seriously consider it. And, for me, with PHEVs a bridge to eventual BEVs in a few years, I like the idea of testing out public-charging infrastructure on long road trips without range anxiety.
We have a gla250e with 22kw DC Charging and Drove over 70k km full electric with aprox. 10% DC Charging and werent able to see battery degradation yet
Awesome! I wish that were sold in the US.
That bee reminds me that I already watched this video. LOL
Kyle where is the full review
@kyle Could you please review 2024 BMW X5 50e to compare ?
Where is the full review kyle
I'm very excited about EV tech, but due to my usage a PHEV makes much more sense. I wish more PHEVs could do at least 7 or 10kw AC charging, and some DC fast charging. The more affordable or reasonable options all seem to be stuck near 3kw AC and many don't fast charge at all.
If my little Hyundai Ioniq PHEV could charge AC at 7kw from 10-80, which is still under a 1C charge rate, it would be so much better than the 3kw it's stuck at now.
It's funny how this 22kw pack can take 60kw (near 3C) but my car is stuck at 0.33C charging.
It seems to only reasonably priced and actually attainable SUV PHEV that does DC fast charging is the outlander, and I know of no cars that do. The Outlander can DC fast charger at 50kw, but AC it's stuck at 3... that's just bad design.
My 2018 Honda Clarity has 7kW AC available(~2 hours charge) but I charge at Level 1 ~1400W (~10 hour charge) because there’s no advantage to using the faster EVSE for me. I keep my BEV on the L2 instead.
@@FuncleChuck I noticed that the other day when I parked on a public charger by a Clarity. I wish they still made them since it would have been a better option than my car. Especially since in my area almost all public L2 chargers bill by time and not power so my slow charging makes the electricity twice as expensive, and since the public charger is already twice as expensive as at home which makes it overall about 4 times as expensive, and that makes it nearly as expensive as gas, so I generally don't bother unless I'm stopping somewhere for a bit and want the better mileage or I can find a cheaper or even free charger.
I also charge my car at home on 120V at 12A (1500W) as I didn't feel the need to run 240V since it would be pricey. Hopefully when I find an EV that fits my driving I can find a good dual charger that can share full power similar to the Grizzl-E duo, but without the second car penalty.
@@Snerdles Fast charging on a PHEV makes no sense imo. I charge at home for all my daily driving and drain the gas when i take a road trip. You have to drain the gas every 4-6 months anyways...SO raod trips are the perfect time to do that and i drive on electricity all the other time....That is the point of a PHEV...imo
@@pete64041 7kw charging is neither fast nor DC... The Outlander has 50kw fast charging which is great for outdoor people who run in to town while camping, pop on a fast charger while you get lunch and then you have 120v anywhere you are when you get there. All PHEVs could do that.
Interesting.🙏
Hi, so I’ll look at potentially migrating to this MB in 2025 from my 2015 Mercedes ML 250 Four cylinder TurboDiesel. My 2015 MB ML is an outstanding vehicle, quiet, satisfactory power, posts of torque, durable, safe, averaging 34 MPG City, 34 - 40 MPG Highway, with a highway only range of 775 plus miles. Which is two to three bathroom stops. So we’ll see. Great review here. 👍🏻
For me DCFC on a PHEV is a good thing. The trade off is ICE pollution vs infrequently making an EV driver wait to charge. Soon, charging infrastructure will not be the issue that it is today making the inconvenience to EV drivers even less.
I think it’s an interesting feature, for when you have the DC available - but it definitely seems to be unnecessary for this to be a good vehicle and I probably wouldn’t use it often.
@@FuncleChuck Unnecessary, but nice to have. Say you take a 200 mile road trip somewhere. Unless you remember to switch driving modes so you get there with range remaining, you may end up getting there with 0 miles of EV range, forcing you to drive around the area on the gas engine, which definitely won't be as smooth or comfortable of a ride.
Maybe you plan to drive around the area... 20...30...even 60+ miles over your stay. If you don't have a L2 charger at your destination residence, then being able to quickly stop into a DC fast charger for 30-40 minutes or so, rather than waiting at a L2 charger somewhere could completely replace all of your miles.
Then maybe you want to stop at a DC fast charger again before heading on home. Maybe you want to stop to eat somewhere on the way home and you can stop at another DC fast charger and get yet another full charge.
What’s the range on this model ? 400 miles ish total for using gas and electric ?
Do you know why the GLE 450e trunk closed by itself after I took out one luggage? After I took out the 2nd luggage the trunk closed by itself again.
There is a sensor below the left exhaust which operates the tail gate by waving your feet. It gets triggered if you just place your foot below. Too sensitive I’d say.
Perfect Cannon Ball Lead Car.
I think that ironically, DC fast charging isn't necessary for a PHEV with such a large battery pack, as the range of one is so good that you could run a vast majority of your daily errands and then charge at home over night. Lesser range PHEVs could benefit, so long as you could find a DC fast charger while out and about. Our Tucson PHEV has a rated range of 33 miles, and there are times where my wife has to top off at home before going out on more errands.
Driving with kids and needing to stop regularly for pee breaks and snacks I've found it very helpful to have CCS in a hybrid. At a highway rest stop, plugging in for 10 or 15 minutes with CCS actually gets you a useful amount of range and avoids a good bit of CO2. Not everyone needs the feature, but if you stop regularly on road trips, it can make a big difference.
At some point you should get the new BMW X5 50e, would be a good comparison to this!
Hey Kyle! You forgot to mention that the Range Rover and Range Rover sport PHEVs also have DC fast charging up to 50kw. I should know, I have one 😊
What kind of all-electric range do you get?
Yeah, but don't they cost like $150k USD?
To date my max has been 63.4 mi@@cbatiau2528
*runs to check if you've done the bmw x5*
Cayenne PHEV or GLE PHEV..???Kyle ??
Absolutely PHEV should have fast charging. Why not use electricity on trips as much as possible.
Dang, 2.4 m/kwh, pretty dang good for such a big brick of a vehicle. We've got a 2018 bmw 5 series 530e and it gets 2.2.
We see 3-3.5 kw/mile in a 2018 Cadillac CT6 2.0E plug-in. It see in the 36 mpg when in hybrid mode and has a range of 600 miles.
I'm curious what the gas mileage range or total range would for GLEe?
58 miles is HUGE!
Yes, I think having the dc-fast is a good idea.
It would be interesting to see how far you could go on $10 of electricity vs. $10 of gas
That PHEV has a battery about the size of the Leaf I owned in 2013. Crazy! Still think the Volvo would be a bit better experience unless you absolutely need to offroad in EV mode. Shifting an electric motor is so silly and inefficient.
As a Volvo PHEV owner who also owned a panamera PHEV, I can tell you that AWD in all-electric mode is much better & safer … even in dry conditions, my XC60 T8 ER spins the rear wheels futilely when accelerating onto a road after a turn… not good… The only thing that Volvo has that’s superior is the one-pedal driving, and that is awesome
The EQE SUV is probably the better car for the EV diehard, but the GLE has plenty of ardent fans and this GLE PHEV does seem to have a lot of great features and offers 90% of the EV experience for those who aren't ready to go for a BEV.
Range Rover phev also supports dc fast charging
yep 50 kW with a 38-kWh pack, I think it doesn't hurt to have DCFC. too bad they are so hard to get in the U.S. 🙃
GLE 450e Plug in hybrid or BMW x5 Plug in hybrid
BMW has halted X5 50e production from Dec 2023 to March 2024.
$10 for 60 miles? That’s more expensive than gas on some cars.
this model has noisy windshield wipers. The stutter and skip. Many owners were having that issue.
DC fast charging on phev is a waste of resources. I agree
It's a no on the 4cyl though
mucho dinero
No way that curve doesn't absolutely cook the battery. 3C is worse than the Leaf.
I love the physical buttons for climate controls … Mercedes > Volvo in safety for this reason
If it's charging at 50kW I don't have a problem with it occupying a charger.
Honestly the Germans are leading the charge on PHEVs with big range. 30-35 was the most you'd see before.
We bought our 2021 RAV4 Prime in 2020, and after three full years and no obvious battery degradation, we are still getting 50 miles of all-electric range in town/city driving (< 45 mph) consistently. And that's off an 18-kWh battery pack.
I have a RAV4 prime and fast charging is not important to me. The battery is for daily use. On the occasions that I go beyond the EV I have the engine. Charging to get basically 1 gallon of gas isn’t worth it. And I wouldn’t want to use a charger when someone might need it for their BEV.
We have a RAV4 Prime also, and I'd love to have fast-charging capability in it. The trade-off is that the RAV4 Prime can charge the traction battery off the ICE (as can most other PHEVs, as well) ... but the GLE 450e cannot charge off the ICE, and I don't think that the X5 xdrive x50 can, either (which also cannot fast-charge, so it's inferior as a PHEV for long road trips). We use our traction battery on long road trips in stop-and-go traffic (because we don't want the ICE wasting gas as they all do in stop-and-go traffic, and we don't have to hear the ICE coming on and going off all the time in such conditions, saving EV power for < 45 mph only, and using Hybrid Hold above 45 mph).
PHEVs charging at DC chargers are a bane. Usually charging at creeping speed and blocking the chargers for those who actually need them.
Highway range tests are just not the same without the possibility of Kyle getting stranded with an empty battery!
As a G class owner, cost of gas is not a concern.
Better charging then Chevy Bolt. lol
I wish it were more reliable
As a PHEV owner, I never charge outside of my home, unless maybe there's a charger at a hotel. That said, I'd also argue that when it comes to the environment, PHEVs are the superior vehicles to BEVs. Are BEVs more fun to drive, simpler, maybe a bit cheaper to operate and a bit less maintenance? Sure. But none of the above are the issues we're trying to solve with EVs. Global emissions are. THAT is the reason we're giving out $7500+ in tax credits on the sale of EVs. Not so some rich dude can go to the service center less often, or save a few bucks in gas.
The fact is, the world is battery supply limited, so we can only produce so many plug-in EVs to replace new ICEVs. For each long range BEV battery, we could use the same capacity to produce 5 PHEVs.
So in that regards... I don't give a flying funk whether you think it's ok or not to charge the PHEV at a fast charger. Unless the fast charger says "BEVs only"... then it's first come first serve. If you wanted a BEV, and you wanted to run the risk of a charger not being available, then that's on you.
Stop being self-entitled and wait your dmn turn.
10 dollars worth of charging for 50 miles of range!?? That car gets 28mpg it's cheaper to just fill it up with gas at 3 bucks a gallon...wtf
XC90 phev is better. EV motor on pre transmission is stupid. It's less efficient and makes it feel clunky on EV mode . No one cares about saving fuel on that 2% time you need all wheel drive
au contraire.... I have an XC60 PHEV, which has electric powering only the rear axle and ICE powering only the front axle. When driving around town in electric-only, the wheels are constantly slipping, even on dry pavement -- very annoying. AWD is good for everyday driving, not just snow.
@@panameradan6860 I have XC90. When on EV mode, rare wheels never slipped not even once even in rain. Must be xc60 only problem
@@i6power30 Possibly, but I'd be surprised if that's the case. The place where I have wheel slippage a LOT is starting out from a stop sign and turning left or right, where you have to accelerate into fast-moving traffic.
@@panameradan6860 I get you. I really haven't had this issue with xc 90 recharge in EV mode. Even when I floor it from the stop or red light turning green. Mine is 2022 model year
@@i6power30 I bought the X50e
OMG, a PHEV in late 2023, LoL 😉
But some still seem to need an exhaust (and high maintenance costs 😁)
The world can only produce 12 million BEVs globally due to limits on battery cell production capacity. That leaves about 68 million ICEVs that need to be produced annually to account for the ~80 million new vehicles that are sold every year. In that respect, when looking at the whole picture, BEVs still need an exhaust... 68 million to be exact. And high maintenance costs!
The bit about high maintenance costs of a PHEV is just kind of ignorant isn't it? PHEVs in general have lower maintenance costs than ICEVs. And for good reason. You rarely ever drive on the gas engine so you have less ICE maintenance and fewer oil changes and air filter changes. You use regenerative braking in lieu of friction braking, extending the life of the brake pads and rotors... just like a BEV.
Given that we could produce 5x as many PHEVs with the same battery resources, I imagine average maintenance costs by all new car buyers would actually drop if we were to utilize only PHEVs instead of BEVs.
Now sure, from the individual customer perspective, BEVs require a bit less maintenance and have zero tail pipe exhaust (although depending on where you're charging it, the power plant may be pumping out quite a bit of emissions), but that could be said even if the world could only produce 1 BEV per year. For that one car customer, all of the above would be true. What about for the other 79.999 million ?
If the goal is to reduce global emissions, then failure to look at the complete picture when comparing technologies is just kind of silly isn't it?
@@naaspam1185 ...that are just short-sighted excuses (i.e. for ice addicts). Battery supply is rising each month and soon there are no phev's "needed" anymore (the better product just wins 😉)
And btw.: battery materials are being recycled already and new cemistrys with no rare earths are already produced, so there will be no bottlenecks !
And in theory there may be less maintenance needed for phev, but for "warranty reasons" the companies will still force you to pay for regular (annual) customer services ! 🤪 (which i.e. Tesla does NOT at all 😉)
@@margu4u Pretty sure your take is what's short sighted and narrow minded.
Jamming all batteries into a miniscule number of long range BEVs and replacing a miniscule number of new ICEVs per year is your long sighted solution?
The world will produce and sell approximately 80 million new vehicles per year due to demand no matter what the powertrains are. If we use all the cells to build BEVs, but can only build 12 million BEVs this year due to battery supply chain restrictions, then the other 68 million necessarily need to be ICEVs due to lack of battery cells. If we used those cells to produce 5x as many PHEVs instead (due to a fifth of the battery capacity per car), then that would be 60 million PHEVs produced THIS YEAR, with only 20 million pure ICEVs needing to be produced.
Which reduces fossil fuel use and emissions more? 60 million PHEVs + 20 million ICEVs, or 12 million BEVs + 68 million ICEVs? *We have to expect that those ICEVs produced this year will stay in service through end of life... 10-15+ years)
Every bit of CO2 that goes into the atmosphere today will likely require the production of more energy in the future to pull those emissions back out of the atmosphere. It uses less energy and does less environmental damage to reduce emissions sooner.
A PHEV can improve mpge versus an ICEV by a factor of 3x or more. As I stated in my original response, BEVs do slightly improve on overall tailpipe emissions versus PHEVs. , but not by so much as to counteract the difference in total vehicle production potential, or having to build more ICEVs for a longer period of time with the BEV solution.
You seem to be falling into the same trap that many people in these debates fall into. You're looking at things from an individual customer's perspective, rather than looking at the bigger picture of how each solution impacts all customers across the entire globe and the overall environmental impact. My only goal in these conversations is to point out which solution reduces fossil fuel use and emissions output the fastest globally... not by individual customers.
FYI, batteries don't use rare earth metals; never have. Cobalt, Nickel, Lithium, Copper, Aluminum, Manganese, Iron, Steel, and phosphorous are the main raw materials used in battery cells... they're not rare earth metals. That doesn't mean these raw materials are currently being mined to the levels we need them to be, or that their supply levels aren't restricting battery cell production. Supply IS limited. The move to LFP cells which have more available raw materials in place of Nickel/Cobalt based cells has helped boost raw material supply for BEV production, but once again, it's still sitting around that 12 million vehicle mark annually. About 15% of the overall market. There are 1.4 billion ICEVs in operation today around the globe. If we're only replacing 12 million per year, it'll take 117 years to replace all of them. With PHEVs, that could would be only 23 years based on this year's annual cell production.
I'm not saying BEVs don't make sense in the future, maybe 10-15 years from now. I'm saying they don't make sense today. We should use all battery cells to produce PHEVs today and stop producing BEVs altogether. However, once we hit 100% PHEV production, and as cell production continues to grow, THEN we can begin to use the excess cells to build BEVs. Or maybe we don't and simply refrain from damaging our natural environment with more hazardous/toxic mines. Just to point out, if we were to transition 100% of vehicles today to BEVs today, it would require multiplying mining across the globe by 6.7x. That means taking every mine for battery raw materials currently in operation, and expanding them nearly 7 fold.
I have no idea what you're talking about with "The company forces you to still pay for regular (annual) customer services for warranty reasons."
First, I think this line of argument is silly. Maintenance costs aren't the problem we're trying to solve. Maintenance isn't what's destroying the planet.
Second, BEVs do still require inspections and maintenance; why would you think they don't? They require slightly less maintenance than PHEVs, but ICEVs are absolutely the worst. The thing is, the solution you're arguing for, pure BEVs only, leads to the need for more ICEVs to be produced... not less. Again, you seem to be looking at things from an individual's perspective, not from a global impact perspective. More people will need to buy ICEVs with your solution and will need to eat higher maintenance sots.
There is no perfect solution... I'm simply giving the 'best' solution towards achieving the fastest reduction in fossil fuel use and emissions. That solution, for now, is to replace as many ICEVs with plug-in electrics as possible, and the best way to do that today is with PHEVs.
@@naaspam1185 that's nonsens...
1) most phev's are used 95% with ice engine ! (the simple reason: the ev-range is mostly just to short on phev's, even when charged daily (which is anoying too)
2) phev's are NOT efficient ! as u always carry another heavy (unused) motor !
Btw. maintenance is expensive too !
3) there is NO supply chain issue for BEV's at all, as many new factorys and refineries are going online worldwide (especially in US and China).
...and there will be NO bottlenecks with materials too, as the batterys can be recycled too (...circular system !)
4) ...which means BEVs are sustainable too
(...and phev's not)
😉
@@margu4u @margu4u 1) Most people make up statistics off the top of their heads. Or should I say pull it out of their backsides? Your figure is obviously made up. Personally, I own a PHEV and 90% of my driving has been in electric only mode. Adding to that, when using gas, my fuel economy is 57% better than my previous car. I've reduced my gasoline consumption by nearly 95% vs my last vehicle.
Your point that the range is too short shows you really don't understand the point of PHEVs. They're not meant to completely replace gasoline use; if they were, people would just buy short range BEVs. The point is to drastically reduce the amount of gas you use, with the added benefits of fewer trips to the gas station, less ICE maintenance, and less brake maintenance on account of regenerative braking. Can also pre-heat them in a closed garage with energy from the plug.
The average commute in the US, which is one of the longest average commutes in the world, is about 32 miles. MOST current generation PHEVs have enough battery capacity to exceed the range needs of their daily commute. That said, they don't necessarily need to use electricity 100% on their commutes to see major reductions in gas use. If they were using 1.5 gallons per day to commute 45 miles in their previous car, then with a PHEV they may use less than half a gallon. A third as much. That still leads to huge savings on fuel and fewer trips to the gas station.
2) My PHEV averages about 120 mpge through 3 seasons. Winter that drops to about 90 mpge. It's about equivalent to a BEV, because ... get this... BEVs are often HEAVIER than PHEVs on account of their much larger batteries. ICE powertrains are much lighter than BEV battery packs, and the PHEV battery is typically about 1/5th of the capacity of a BEV pack. The ultimate weight of the vehicle is what matters. And yes, there are some vehicles that have had ICEV, PHEV, and BEV powertrains, where you could directly compare the weights to one another. The ICEV was the lightest, PHEV was second, and the PHEV was the heaviest. Case in point, a BMW 330e PHEV weighs 4039 lbs. A BMW i4 weighs 4680 lbs.
3) BEVs are said to last 15 years. Most of the world's BEVs on the roads today were built since 2017, with volumes growing as we've gotten into even more recent years. This idea of recycling being able to make up for the lack of mining new raw materials is a bit silly, given that most BEVs on the roads today won't have their batteries recycled for another 10-13+ years. The volumes of BEVs built each year prior to 2017 are tiny. And of course many of those BEVs were shorter range BEVs with smaller capacity batteries. It would take 2-3 of them just to get enough raw materials to build a single long range BEV today.
Recycling will eventually become a major source for raw materials in the future, but it isn't today.
As to battery manufacturing, I hate to break this to you, but most major OEMs have just said they're going to delay their battery plants in the US and Europe. Plus, we really have no idea what type of capacities we'll be seeing out of those plants when they come online, or whether those companies have been able to secure enough raw materials to supply them.
As of today, there absolutely is a supply chain bottleneck on cells. Otherwise we'd be able to produce an unlimited number of BEVs today, and drive their costs through the floor due to economies of scale, such that ICEVs could never compete. We would be able to replace all 80 million new vehicles produced per year today with BEVs. That obviously hasn't happened. Instead we have enough capacity to build approximately 12 million vehicles.
Ironically, many of the newer BEVs set to hit the market in the near future are pickup trucks and large SUVs... which happen to use about 2-3x more cell capacity per vehicle than a typical compact/mid-size BEV. Therefore, the average amount of cell capacity that are required per vehicle going forward is growing.
4) As I said in my last comment, my goal is to push the most optimized way to reduce gasoline use and emissions in the fastest possible way. PHEVs are without a single doubt in my mind the best solution to that end, having spent the past 7 years engulfed in the EV community and researching the industry and the vehicles.
Some of the things you're saying are common misinformed statements I hear all the time from the "BEV only" community, and no matter how many times I cite actual facts and figures (not going to do that here on YT...), the "BEV only " crowd will ignore facts and keep pushing their "BEVs are the only solution" silliness.
If I had to sum up the 'BEV only' crowd, it's that it's often full of stock investors whose best interest is to convince people that BEVs are the only solution. And yet here I am showing clear flaws in that argument.
Trust me, if we could snap our fingers today and produce 80 million new BEVs per year... I'd absolutely support it. However, we're not doing that, we can't do that, and it's our environment, our planet, our home that's ultimately paying the price. Oh and taxpayers are paying too, because they're the ones subsidizing the heck out of BEV purchases.
Tesla will pull down $4.5 billion in US federal EV tax credit subsidies this year alone. When you combine all of Tesla's subsidies globally, they'll likely earn well over $10 billion in subsidies this year alone... on the sale of only 1.8 million vehicle sales. Sadly, that's the only thing propping that company up.
They chose to build and sell a vehicle with a powertrain that has only found success through off the chart government subsidization, and they're trying to convince everyone this is the way...
Why would they do that? Because if every OEM doesn't get on board with the BEV transition, the subsidy money will stop, and Tesla goes under. Go figure, Tesla, the OEM with a corporate valuation that's more than every major OEM on the planet combined is trying to convince everyone that their solution is the way...
I’m totally perplexed why in 2023 Kyle is excited about any PHEV. Most PHEVs only save 1-2 gal of gas so owners often don’t recharge them. Why would I want the maintenance of an engine, transmission, and exhaust system? Dual power trains appear very inefficient. Consider a small battery forced to drag along a heavy engine & transmission. PHEVs feel obsolete.
Nope... PHEVs are perfect for our lifestyle, and we've bought three of them so far (from three different automakers). We like driving locally in all- or mostly-electric, going to gas stations only once every 2 months or so with the convenience of having a full charge every morning. But we also do long-distance road trips about once every 2 months on average and don't want to deal with public-charging infrastructure (at least not where you depend on it to get to where you want to go). Au contraire, johnpoldo, most people will probably find PHEVs to be a good bridge to BEVs in a decade or two from now; the early adopters have mostly gotten their BEVs now, which is why we're seeing BEV sales slow considerably. Most of the public (meaning the vast majority of drivers, who don't own a BEV yet) will likely find PHEVs more attractive as a bridge (even a long-term bridge) before going all-out with BEV purchases. This is why we see so many automakers coming out with PHEVs now; they are selling. I've been test-driving the GLE 450e at several dealerships near me, and they are selling like hotcakes here. And so I'm glad (as are many others) that Kyle is covering PHEVs -- as he should, as they're an important part of electrification in the car industry.
@@panameradan6860 I believe we are past the early adopters for BEVs and moving into a growth phase. The non-Tesla charging infrastructure has been poorly executed slowing adoption, but Tesla opening its network should help. Mercedes committing $1-billion to charging hubs, 7-Eleven, Circle-K, Race-Trac, and several other charging locations will help too. Greedy dealerships have not helped EV adoption and hopefully that is going away.
After owning over a dozen MB ICE vehicles, we are so pleased to now have their BEV instead. So when you buy that GLE, be prepared to have two maintenance visits each year based on time or mileage, which ever comes first, so they can suck $$ out of your wallet. We were paying $1400/yr for routine MB service and PHEVs cost the same.
@@panameradan6860 Agreed....The PHEV have a much smaller battery. So carrying around the much larger unused battery for everyday driving of an EV actually makes EV's heavier without the engine. The Model S weighs like 5k pounds lol...Also the PHEV gives you 2 options..So the car will last double as long as a regular ICE or pure EV...That is why PHEV's are actually cheaper long term...
This must be the most complex and stupid thing to ever come out of Germany. Good luck reselling this in 5 years when everyone is shopping EVs.
not if you have something like London's ULEZ zone. I'm convinced that Range Rover engineered their PHEV"s mostly for that reason.
Hydrogen based e-fuel combined with PHEV is the best option for the future.👍
Hydrogen is a myth spread by the fossil-fuel industry
Man I thought mazda had the ugliest steering wheel. Mercedes takes the crown lol auto manufacturers need to stop making round horn buttons. Round is an old old design. Round looks girly