In game 1 when you were dead to untapped land > Primeval Titan, I was expecting Death's Shadow to be scryed to the bottom with Opt. The second Shadow didn't increase the clock, and it would give one more look for a Thoughtseize.
Temur battle rage really helps the deck in many of the situations you lost in. Even a single copy really helps your matchup against decks with chump blockers, it's great against lingering souls especially. I'd run it over izzet staticaster and squeeze a main deck copy in too.
17:55 Compare omen to farseek (because once resolved they both let valakut trigger earlier by either lowering the requirement of mountains by making valakut a mountain or by putting a mountain in play). Until you get to the point in the game where you're actually triggering valakut, omen is worse than a farseek because it's just fixing and not actual ramp at that point. On LSV's t1, he needs to be more worried about what the opponent is doing now and not when they have 6+ lands in play.
Prismatic omen was the pick, I am sure of that. No-one is debating that all the cards are still good, and the game still may have been lost. Titanshift is secretly the second best deck in modern.
18 Lands, no Serum Visions and 8 3-mana cards between Snapcaster, Lilly and Kommand seems greedy to me. t1 Serum Visions is much more powerful if you need lands. 1landers with Visions is almost always a keep. Not sure about 1lander with Opt. Also since you tap out most of the time anyway with this deck, the instant speed of opt is rarely relevant.
I see your point (I've been playing grixis DS with 4 serum 0 opt and 19 lands, with no lili) so I agree with you on basically all counts. One thing you may be missing is the way that the deck changes after sideboard. Sometimes you have up to 7 one mana blue instant counterspells and I could see how the opts overperform in concert with these cards.
Ezra Szanton you're right but do you ever really have 7 counterspells except vs lantern? Vs Eldrazi we take the Denials out, I think we also want to get rid of them for Affinity. So mostly we swap counters for counters. Also the fact that our counters are u and not uu or 1u and that theyre only kept up t3 onward usually means that its at a point in the game where we can easily cast both. In UWR with its higher curve opt is a nice addition, but for us, with the land count being only 19... well I guess we're agreeing that Visions is better.
Robert Boemke it doesn't happen so often, but lantern and ad naus are the two places I have more than four. This is kind of a weird non-argument because I mostly agree with you, but I was just trying to point out some additional merits of the opposing viewpoint
Can someone tell me why he couldn't Stubborn Denial the Summoner's Pact? With his two 9/9's it should have been an easy counter and swing for lethal next turn, right? And for that matter, how is Primeval Titan a guaranteed win with 2 9/9's to block?
With prismatic omen out, Primeval Titan grabbing 2 Valakuts is lethal. The same is true for playing hour of promise, which the opponent had in hand. His only hope was that they would grab Prime Time and then cast the Hour of Promise, which he could counter, but they didn't do that, so he was guaranteed to be killed by Valakut triggers.
Yes because it scales with the late game and it can be flashed back by snapcaster. Also it can't be targeted by permanent destruction, which makes it better against jund and other decks like that. Every time I actually play threads In modern I find it to be very limited for these exact reasons.
The play you suggested is still valid, as LSV could've milled two titans while drawing one of his remaining two thought scours, then milled two more titans. The probability is low enough that I would not even attempt this line if I was in his seat.
Opponent revealed an Hour of Promise earlier which just kills LSV on the spot if it resolves. LSV's only out was to let opponent get their Titan and hope they did't have an untapped land to cast it.
Why don't they ever give their opponent a chance to mess up at the end of the game? If the opponent is going for the win, isn't it still worth it to make sure they don't mis-click or space out, especially if you win the game next turn if they do screw up?
@channelfireball LSV What do you think about the 5 colour Deathshadow that's floating around? Traverse the Ulvenwald / Tarmagoyf in main, and Ranger of Eos / Lingering Souls in the sideboard? Would you still stick with Grixis?
Bryan Wagner This deck scoops (when you don’t draw Kommand) to Chalice. Thus, tapping out on turn 1 with Serum Visions just doesn’t make sense against ETron.
But besides that one match-up and card in starting hand and you having Stub Denial it is worse. So the question is really valid: Is Opt really wanted in a tap-out style deck? You can just Thoughtseize the Chalice if you are really afraid.
testthewest123 I have played GDS with 4 serum visions for a while, and sometimes you have draws where you don’t have one of your 6-7 hand hate 1 drops. Also, you get a lot of one landers where you really need to cantrip on turn 1. In addition to that, you have a lot of fetches, and a lot of scenarios where you need a specific card the turn you cast your cantrip, in which case opt is better. Also, ETron is one of (if not the most) popular deck in the format, so having some insurance against it really helps. Plus; you have a lot of 1 drop noncreature spells being cast. If you can get your Death Shadow opponent’s hand hate card with the denial (which you probably would have taken if you could have resolved a hand hate spell) you are forcing your opponent out of information and (essentially) to take a card that isn’t great in the matchup. That said, I play a sideboard with a lot less 1 ofs to favor my more heavy Opt build, which is the price that you have to pay for not playing 4 copies of serum visions. (Note: my cantrip split is 4 scour, 3 opt, 2 visions). Opt has been amazing for me so far, mainly because it allows me to see 2 cards in 1 turn (and have them go into my hand immediately), which has been very applicable in many of my games.
Man, all the ads in these CFB vids just kill the vid. Main reason I dont watch much CFB content. I understand they have to pay creators but 8 ads is just excessive.
Thanks for letting everyone know that having an opinion different to yours = uneducated. The deck is cheap disruption and fat creatures, having snapcaster in it doesn't make it complex. being complex doesn't even mean a deck is interesting or not.
FlourescentPotato Sorry for offending you, should've double-checked what I've written to not let something like that slip. Anyways, I dislike the DS deck but people are highly overreacting. I've played both Burn and Affinity for a couple months each and this deck is definitely harder than both of these. Since there has to be some aggro in the format it's better when aggressive decks are harder since it makes format more skill intensive and thus more interesting. The last thing Modern needs is another Twin-like ban (this deck is overrepresented and people dislike it so let's ban it!).
Wheyy! My boy LSV. Excited to see this, especially considering your views on the deck!
"And hard cast street wrath." LSV with good lines.
would love to see another modern death's shadow video with LSV !!
LSV playing my second favourite deck ! Holy shit its like Christmas came early
In game 1 when you were dead to untapped land > Primeval Titan, I was expecting Death's Shadow to be scryed to the bottom with Opt. The second Shadow didn't increase the clock, and it would give one more look for a Thoughtseize.
Surgical extraction is actually great in mirror and vs valakut, it's not too difficult to strip them from some major win cons
Temur battle rage really helps the deck in many of the situations you lost in. Even a single copy really helps your matchup against decks with chump blockers, it's great against lingering souls especially. I'd run it over izzet staticaster and squeeze a main deck copy in too.
no brutality vs company deck? wtf?
Not taking the Omen vs Valakut is a huge punt
Yes, this exactly.
Yep. I have done the same thing and it's not a mistake I will make again.
17:55 Compare omen to farseek (because once resolved they both let valakut trigger earlier by either lowering the requirement of mountains by making valakut a mountain or by putting a mountain in play). Until you get to the point in the game where you're actually triggering valakut, omen is worse than a farseek because it's just fixing and not actual ramp at that point. On LSV's t1, he needs to be more worried about what the opponent is doing now and not when they have 6+ lands in play.
Prismatic omen was the pick, I am sure of that. No-one is debating that all the cards are still good, and the game still may have been lost. Titanshift is secretly the second best deck in modern.
And these are are "pros" that's like an NBA player missing a free throw.
18 Lands, no Serum Visions and 8 3-mana cards between Snapcaster, Lilly and Kommand seems greedy to me. t1 Serum Visions is much more powerful if you need lands. 1landers with Visions is almost always a keep. Not sure about 1lander with Opt.
Also since you tap out most of the time anyway with this deck, the instant speed of opt is rarely relevant.
I see your point (I've been playing grixis DS with 4 serum 0 opt and 19 lands, with no lili) so I agree with you on basically all counts. One thing you may be missing is the way that the deck changes after sideboard. Sometimes you have up to 7 one mana blue instant counterspells and I could see how the opts overperform in concert with these cards.
Ezra Szanton you're right but do you ever really have 7 counterspells except vs lantern?
Vs Eldrazi we take the Denials out, I think we also want to get rid of them for Affinity. So mostly we swap counters for counters.
Also the fact that our counters are u and not uu or 1u and that theyre only kept up t3 onward usually means that its at a point in the game where we can easily cast both.
In UWR with its higher curve opt is a nice addition, but for us, with the land count being only 19... well I guess we're agreeing that Visions is better.
Robert Boemke it doesn't happen so often, but lantern and ad naus are the two places I have more than four. This is kind of a weird non-argument because I mostly agree with you, but I was just trying to point out some additional merits of the opposing viewpoint
It´s still interesting to talk about.
Robert Boemke agreed! Talking detailed shop about decks I've tested with is one of my favorite things
Can someone tell me why he couldn't Stubborn Denial the Summoner's Pact? With his two 9/9's it should have been an easy counter and swing for lethal next turn, right? And for that matter, how is Primeval Titan a guaranteed win with 2 9/9's to block?
With prismatic omen out, Primeval Titan grabbing 2 Valakuts is lethal. The same is true for playing hour of promise, which the opponent had in hand. His only hope was that they would grab Prime Time and then cast the Hour of Promise, which he could counter, but they didn't do that, so he was guaranteed to be killed by Valakut triggers.
"Oh, they're just getting their F6 value". Brilliant
I have seen some that play 1-2 claim \\ fames. think its any good?
Should have just cast the Street Wraith at 33:10, put them on an unblockable unpushable 2-turn clock.
ancestral vision is perfect
Not fast enough. This deck would likely win a game before a suspended vision could be cast.
Why did he concede on the 3rd game of round 1?
lmao that keep in game 3 of the third match
what is the program?
Is Entrancing Melody actually better than Threads of Disloyalty? Snapcaster and Delve vs being cheaper for 2 drops?
Yes because it scales with the late game and it can be flashed back by snapcaster. Also it can't be targeted by permanent destruction, which makes it better against jund and other decks like that. Every time I actually play threads In modern I find it to be very limited for these exact reasons.
Very few people play courser in shift, I wouldn't recommend playing around it
They always play 4 Prime times right? Otherwise maybe Thought Scour could have milled them in response to summoner's pact m3g1.
Lightning Lance almost always, summoner’s pact usually just functions as extra copies of Prime Time. Otherwise an interesting line :)
The play you suggested is still valid, as LSV could've milled two titans while drawing one of his remaining two thought scours, then milled two more titans. The probability is low enough that I would not even attempt this line if I was in his seat.
Hazoret ROFL
Why didn't you stubborn denial the summoner's pact at the end of the last game? What am I missing?
Brady Patterson He would have lost to a Titan in hand or an hour of promise regardless. Had he left up denial, snap, denial, then perhaps.
Opponent revealed an Hour of Promise earlier which just kills LSV on the spot if it resolves. LSV's only out was to let opponent get their Titan and hope they did't have an untapped land to cast it.
He could've played crypt untapped, and left up denial snap denial. But he would've died to top deck valakut.
Why don't they ever give their opponent a chance to mess up at the end of the game? If the opponent is going for the win, isn't it still worth it to make sure they don't mis-click or space out, especially if you win the game next turn if they do screw up?
@channelfireball
LSV
What do you think about the 5 colour Deathshadow that's floating around?
Traverse the Ulvenwald / Tarmagoyf in main, and Ranger of Eos / Lingering Souls in the sideboard?
Would you still stick with Grixis?
Has mutagenic growth ever been used in a death's shadow deck?
Yes, back when they were more all-in on temur battle rage
back when it was still called Suicide Zoo
5-Color all-in variants still do nowadays, I think. You know, the Tribal Flames and Might of Alara ones...
22:40 how many titans does valakut run? Does thought scouring in response hoping to mill all the titans sound like a thing?
I think they run 4
They play 4
Takes 5 dmg, then decides it would be a good time to pop ee
That's how you beat lsv
Is opt better than serum visions?
Bryan Wagner This deck scoops (when you don’t draw Kommand) to Chalice. Thus, tapping out on turn 1 with Serum Visions just doesn’t make sense against ETron.
But besides that one match-up and card in starting hand and you having Stub Denial it is worse. So the question is really valid: Is Opt really wanted in a tap-out style deck? You can just Thoughtseize the Chalice if you are really afraid.
testthewest123 I have played GDS with 4 serum visions for a while, and sometimes you have draws where you don’t have one of your 6-7 hand hate 1 drops. Also, you get a lot of one landers where you really need to cantrip on turn 1. In addition to that, you have a lot of fetches, and a lot of scenarios where you need a specific card the turn you cast your cantrip, in which case opt is better. Also, ETron is one of (if not the most) popular deck in the format, so having some insurance against it really helps. Plus; you have a lot of 1 drop noncreature spells being cast. If you can get your Death Shadow opponent’s hand hate card with the denial (which you probably would have taken if you could have resolved a hand hate spell) you are forcing your opponent out of information and (essentially) to take a card that isn’t great in the matchup. That said, I play a sideboard with a lot less 1 ofs to favor my more heavy Opt build, which is the price that you have to pay for not playing 4 copies of serum visions. (Note: my cantrip split is 4 scour, 3 opt, 2 visions). Opt has been amazing for me so far, mainly because it allows me to see 2 cards in 1 turn (and have them go into my hand immediately), which has been very applicable in many of my games.
Opt works with snapcaster more.
you also get to hold up stubborn denial and opt if they don't cast something u want to/care if it gets countered
I run 3 Auriok Champions in my tokens main board. D. Shadow is a great matchup against me 🤣🤣
Man, all the ads in these CFB vids just kill the vid. Main reason I dont watch much CFB content. I understand they have to pay creators but 8 ads is just excessive.
ErroneousClique its a 1 hour video...
Valakut is so gay
gay af
Actually, Valukuts prefer lands that are mountain-typed, not another Valukut. Not very gay at all
Wanting orgy with at least 5 other red-mana producing lands and exploding in volcano-gasm = SUPER GAY
1 mana 8/8 is worse than Valakut
Being gay is ok. Being Valakut however is unforgivable
Jesus this deck is boring. love LSV but it's a misery.
boring? literally one of the most complex decks of the format.
I hate aggro decks but calling DS boring is just uneducated.
Thanks for letting everyone know that having an opinion different to yours = uneducated. The deck is cheap disruption and fat creatures, having snapcaster in it doesn't make it complex. being complex doesn't even mean a deck is interesting or not.
FlourescentPotato Sorry for offending you, should've double-checked what I've written to not let something like that slip.
Anyways, I dislike the DS deck but people are highly overreacting. I've played both Burn and Affinity for a couple months each and this deck is definitely harder than both of these. Since there has to be some aggro in the format it's better when aggressive decks are harder since it makes format more skill intensive and thus more interesting. The last thing Modern needs is another Twin-like ban (this deck is overrepresented and people dislike it so let's ban it!).
Filip Tryhuk Death Shadow isn't an aggro deck though? It's a tempo deck if anything. Having a fast clock does not mean it's an aggro deck.
Terrible deck, not surprised it fell into nothing.