Specialized's S-Works Epic World Cup: Epic Win or Epic Fail?
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2023
- Does Specialized's S-Works Epic World Cup race mountain bike really mean death to all hardtails or is it more Epic fail than Epic win? I've been head to head testing this £12000 superbike against a load of other bikes and terrain challenges and speaking to the design team for an exhaustive and exhausting deep dive into it's incredible tech.
Thanks to Specialized for the test bike loan, Giro Cycling UK, Peaty’s Products, Crud XL Fenders, Torq Nutrition and Hebtroco for supporting the channel, and to my Patreon supporters for their monthly pledges. If you like what I'm doing and want early, extended and exclusive edits, personal buying and tech advice and other Patreon perks click on the link here: www.patreon.com/GuyKesTV?fan_...
Any questions get busy in the comments.
Cheers
Guy - Sport
Hi ya again.just had a s-works epic HT built for me,2020 frame I believe.havent ridden it properly yet,only the short distance from the bike shop.god the thing is light,climbs like a goat.I have an older spesh stumpy,been bulletproof, still one of my best best ever,and I have had alot of bikes over the years,but I think this epic is going to be a god send.keep up the good work fellow Yorkshireman👍
Thanks to Laura Stigger, it’s now a World Cup race winning bike. Love the tech, feels very very niche. Awesome piece of kit. Needs a race whippet to justify the price. Happy to stick with my Cannondale Scalpel HT. The Cervelo test cannot come quickly enough. As perversely, I’ve given up on my Cannondale Scalpel Si. Propriety tech fail has meant it’s been on a workshop stand more than on the dirt! Why do I mention this? Guy needs to do a video on pros and cons of proprietary tech!
Canyon rules xco mtb now Puck has won 3 times all ready
As a mechanic, those Si’s were on my stand way too many times. 12k Hi-Mod builds coming into the shop 3 months after purchase with linkage bushings backing out. Regularly. As for the comment on the proprietary shock. The reality is the only real proprietary component is the shock body itself and the little bleed valve. The internals are really straightforward. Standard bushings and seals and what not. It will be serviceable for many many years. Not to mention that the consumer that buys this type of bike probably races and will swap it out in 3-5 years anyway.
thank you for the review. I have the exact same bike with about 5 or so rides on it (prior Yeti SB130, Epic Evo, n-2 Epic) and the bike still confuses me in terms of a winner or should have gone EVO w/ lockouts. Just like you I have been setting PB all over the place and climbs really nice. At times I feel the suspension is perfect (full and half gulp) but on chatty trails w/ rocks and roots it is really harsh... but damn, it is fun to ride! Super interested to see what Spesh does with EVO and all the rumor shots of a XC version of flight attendant.
fantastic I bought my bike last week I so exited race 2024 Brasil ride showww
Ill be sticking with my sworks 2022 epic ht with a remote lockout 32 factory. A very honest review ✌🏻
That’s probably what I’d do too Rich!
5:51 when you got on the gas it made me want one…
Great review! Fork is somewhat better than 100 mm earlier version as I understand, can it be setup fully open?
yes it is the same fork design as the epic. There is a fully active mode, as well as a firm mode.
Would you opt for the Epic WC or the ZFS-5 to create a very fast "XCG" (XC/Extreme Gravel) drop-bar Frankenbike in your opinion? Cheers again for the thorough review!
The Cervelo would definitely be more versatile for overall XC but the Epic is more frame bag compatible and closer or a gravel race bike in feel. In answer to your other question on wheels if you're talking about big XCG mileages I'd go Roval for the DT Swiss hubs. The Zipps seem OK so far but the 350s are properly proven long term and easy to get spares for too
I like the regular epic, and now with longer travel up front and more slack, the thing is going to be a killer!
LOL that I’m not on the launch trip until next week but everyone seems to know all about the new bike 😂
Great review, and it feels spot on to what I'm feeling, with the exception I haven't been riding through supper rough stuff, and with this type of riding, mostly tamed trails and fire roads, this bike is unbelievably good. BUT I just put myself into riding Cape Epic again in 2024, 10 years after my first one (which I rode with a 2014 Epic Sworks), and I am now pondering if I should stick to the Race Epic (I have a 2020 S-Works Epic Race) or go to an Epic Evo. I'm a relatively light rider at 67kg, and a decent technical rider at descents. As I have just got the bike and could not do rides longer than 3hrs yet, wondering if Cape Epic would be too much for it. Any views @GuyKesTV?
I did the Andorra epic on mine. No issues other than a lack of talent of mine! 😂
You were Flying up those hills 😂
Why they ran that one brake line through the headset on a mtb blows my mind!
How does this compare in your opinion to the Santa Cruz Blur xc you tested a while back?
Sorry for delay Scott. I've got a Cervelo ZFS on test that's very similar to the Blur so I've been able to get a good comparison. The World Cup is slightly lighter and the suspension means it feels sharper and 'stiffer' on the ground even though Spesh says it's no stiffer structurally than the Epic Evo which is very similar to the Blur. Head angle is slacker on paper but as the rear doesn't sag as much it's basically the same as the Blur when riding. Blur is a lot smoother, more comfortable and forgiving with the shock open and it's got a more springy vibe and excellent traction up tech climbs. It feels a little bit softer/flexier as a result but head to head the Cervelo (and therefore the Blur) was significantly faster on extended descents and wasn't dropped on tech climbs either as there's only a few hundred grams (half a pound) difference in weight once you add a dropper to the World Cup.
Helpful and insightful video, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. If I may offer some respectful feedback, doing the commentary while riding is hard to follow as the visuals are distracting and the narration is labored. Maybe do the narration in studio with selective clips from the ride? It would be easier for the viewer. Thanks again and please don’t take the feedback as in any way negative, your insights are great.
Fwiw, I had a similar reaction.
Agree, tough to follow
Question.did’t you use the 3 tokens in the rear shox.I have the same bike and loving it.But sometimes I bottoming out with the rear shox on mid gulp.can i fix it with the 3 tokens or do i but more pressure in rear shox.?🤔And love you video,Nice work.👌🚀
Yes using the tokens should help. It is pretty linear as standard but 2 tokens should do the trick
@@GuyKesTV Thanks 💪
How often do you hit the pedals? That BB is LOW as hell, you would have to sometimes. I have the 2022 epic and I hit the pedals too much already as it is and this is 10mm lower.
Sorry for late reply. The BB is less of an issue because you're running the suspension fully extended a lot of the time
I'm looking way more forward to the next epic evo, but with manitou suspension.
Is there an updated epic evo coming out soon?
I didn’t like my evo. I had the pro with xtr. I’m sure if I got the S-Works it would have been different. I just got the Cervelo zfs120 and like it better. Always looking for the holy grail. 😅
I had to turn off the going through the trees bit ,I got nervous just watching lol .
Don’t worry I know the bar gaps pretty well. Most of the time 😬
Very good review, I loved it. I come from Epic HT and wanted to go to full suspension, but it seemed too much a traditional double since the terrain that I travel in this area is quite flat, with paths and hard terrain, ups and downs not so difficult, very few places with rockgarden and that type of difficulties. That's why I consider that this would be the best option and buy the EPIC WORLD CUP EXPERT version bicycle that costs almost 50% cheaper than the S-WORKS version.
I have a new FOX 34 STEPCAST KASHIMA fork, with a 3-position remote control. What do you think about replacing the rockshox SID brain original with my FOX 34? Would it be a good option? Would I lose benefits?
Another question I have is that the FOX 34 has a total length of 510mm and the ROCKSHOX SID 516mm, how does that 6mm difference influence in the behavior of the bicycle?
My goal is to make a positive change, otherwise I prefer to leave the original fork.
Your opinion would be very important to me, thank you very much.
I think your Fox would work really well. The BRAIN SID is quite harsh and it’s also a lot heavier than normal SID. The 6mm won’t make a noticeable difference. The non Sworks is definitely the best choice in terms of value too. If you’ve not already got the bike see if the store will sell it without the fork so you get a discount too 👍🏻
I give the Epic WC a C-. I would have preferred 100/120mm travel, no Gulp or Brain (no propriatery suspension), 76*STA with an adjustable headset providing both 67* and 65* HTA, and an all out effort to make the bike as light as reasonable. With this configuration you could put the bike in XC mode with a 67* HTA or Downcountry mode with a 65* HTA.
What you want is a Scott Spark then 👍🏻
@@GuyKesTV I actually seriously considered it and took a parking lot ride on the Spark. However, it was the excessive use of proprietary technology that put me off. I'm not a fan of the Twin Lock system or the through the headset cable routing or the hidden shock. Just shortening the stem required an expensive proprietary stem that only Scott makes that didn't even come in the 40mm length I actually wanted. No thanks. Too much technology that violated my keep it simple rule.
@@marksandoval5361 if you liked the triple mode operation of the Spark but want it in a less fussy form keep your eyes peeled for the new RockShox SID fork and shock breaking cover at the end of this month
@@GuyKesTV This guy trolls every MTB channel with the same thing.
3:19, what kind of setting are you running? full, half, or no gulp?
I ran them all, if you search my for Epic World Cup on my channel a bunch of different test videos should come up. I settled at about 60% in the end
@@GuyKesTV60% you mean a bit more sag than the half gulp, but not fully gulp?
Have you ever tested Banshee bikes? If not, have you ever considered doing so?
I'm hoping to borrow a Banshee hardtail for test soon, it's been way too long since I've ridden one.
Ebike dude was new to mountain biking you can tell by his cadence 😜
He’s on an e-bike; he still hasn’t tried mountain biking
I'd love that, Get me up n down the Malverns in no time...Ha !!
Haven't ridden the latest Lux WC I'm afraid. Previous gen was seriously quick though.
Great Video Guy! personally for me, I prefer a lighter HT, so the fact you can feel it bobbing, would sap my energy, and it’s heavy is a no from me.
#bringbacktheEpicsworksHT
You still buy a Epic Ht no s works version anymore.
yep, it’s the S-Works i’d be wanting and want to see it keeping on being developed!
Have the latest model epic ht and this bike. I’ve owned the last three generations of epic full suspension bikes and I always preferred my hard tail until this bike. This honestly has a very similar feel to a hard tail and is soaks up the bumps so efficiently.
@@B-gh7md I bought the WC Expert, I'm waiting for it to arrive. I also come from using Epic HT. What is the shock configuration that you like the most or do you use the most? Firm, medium or soft?
@@mhffox252 I also came from riding a hardtail so I do like the firm setting more. I don’t set it up with any sag. The front you can run softer than you normally would.
Had mine a little over a month and I have to say it’s by far the best xc bike I’ve ever ridden. With the 110mm fork and longer reach dimensions you can run the fork really soft compared to your traditional 90-100 forks on older frame geo. As for the rear shock design the 75mm is perfect. You don’t set this bike up with sag also there is an internal bump stop if you bottom out that with give you a few more mm of travel. The rear suspension design also allows for a lower bb height similar to hard tails. The frame is insanely stiff in the bb area similar to hard tails so this thing is very snappy and responsive.
Better than the Lux WC?
Great video. Were you running the “full gulp” setting when you got that KOM?
Think I was running it between half and full at that point
@@GuyKesTV so not quite full gulp and not quite half gulp? My guess is you were experimenting with your own sag setting? 6-8mm instead of the 4-5mm that the half-gulp provides?
@@reineherrera8897 yes, around 6mm sag and a couple of clicks of low speed compression was my sweet spot
@@GuyKesTV just finished up my frame set build this afternoon. I keep coming back to this review since it’s so comprehensive. I’m not dead set on what shock setting I’m going to run but wanted to ask if you had a baseline setting for the fork that would match the no-gulp or Half-gulp in the shock? I’m a relatively light rider at 140lbs. Thanks.
@@reineherrera8897 enjoy new ride day 🤘🏻The brain seems really well calibrated to the shock (but back to front). EG full Brain Fade matches no gulp really well, while minimum Brain Fade matches full gulp. As the rear is so supple once it gets moving you can go with the fork pressures RockShox recommend too. Normally I’d say add 10% but not here, at first anyway. If you really want to sync them up then a single click of compression on the rear shock will mimic the release feel of the fork too. 👍🏻
Is every bike he tests amazing? Gotta keep the sponsors happy
😆 well he did made slight note towards the fact that this idea does not work well for him (no lock-out yet heavy compared to i.e. soft-stays hard-tail) ... so it's more like saying 'hush this is fail' without saing it out loud - just IMHO.
Well, Guy is quite critical of the bike's flaws. And has been quite unimpressed with some Specialized bikes in the past. They also don't sponsor him.
@@JeremyLawrence-imajez thanks for pointing that out chief, some people are determined to find a conspiracy eh?
I’m pretty sure I actually say by most standards this is a fail and would definitely advise most people to get the Epic Evo. And Specialized don’t sponsor me or else they’d be listed at the start. But unsurprisingly for a dream spec £12k bike there are some things it does amazingly.
Guy is has some pretty critical reviews if you watch enough of his vids.
No thanks, my Supercaliber 9.9 is fine for me! 👊🏼
Btw a Orbea Alma frame is only 830 gram in weight size medium
Yeah Alma is crazy light and good value too. Very keen to try one
@@GuyKesTV i own 2 Alma one whit alu frame and one whit a carbon frame
The climbing review is...well it tells you everything unfortunately, something a bike like this should have excelled at but 🤷♂ A non fancy standard rear shock with lockout seems like it would have transformed this bike into something it is advertised for to do...Same issue i have with the Trek Supercaliber, also a compromised bike that is in many builds heavier than a cheaper 100-120mm XC bike
Yep, basically this. It looks lovely though
Also, @GuyKesTV i have a trek SC I built as well as an SW epic evo. it's almost comical how close they are in weight but not even in same discussion for how capable the epic evo is both in classic xc single track like your video but also blue and black rated tech routes here used for enduro races.
I have twistloc dual remote lock-out on both, sid ultimate on both, 32x100 and 35x120, everything is light but strong for parts choices, x01 axs, bike yoke revive 185 on the evo, 35 clamp bar, enve mtb stem 65, next SL cranks, time atac Ti, bontrager xxx 30 wheels, G2 brakes and 180/160 rotors (minimum size).
Epic EVO 10.3 kg.
I raced xco on the SC 2021 but this spring converted it to a gravel-adventure hybrid beast with Cane Creek bar ends and the Ride FARR aero center hold kit. It rides on tape-less, tubeless Bontrager kovvee 23mm with 2.1 Vittoria Terenno Dry. It is SO comfortable on gravel LOL
I'd been feeling like i could still have a "light and quick xc bike" by way of a 2022 S-Works Epic 100/100 brain/brain, and have a frame to build but my SW Epic EVO and your video make me think I'd still almost always grab the evo unless it was just a true xc race on easier terrain.
@@jwestpro Cheers chief, that's great feedback. I reckon the Supercal or the Epic WC would both make a great 'angry gravel' bike as there's potentially more room for frame bags etc. But for anything genuinely MTB Epic Evo is definitely the way to go, esp set up with that spec and remotes front and rear. That's going to be even truer when I can talk about what I'm riding from RockShox ATMO
They needed an answer to the Trek Super Caliber on the WC level. I must say they are one step behind.
How tall are you for this Large size bike ???
Im 180cm 5" 11" and run a 745mm BB to saddle top height
@@GuyKesTV thanks for reply - I find the new geometry very confusing, I'm 6ft , 32" inseam , riding large 2011 Niner RIP 9 Alloy .with 80mm Stem.1x11 , Reach about 420mm.
@@jonienglish3231 The reach of most modern bikes is going to feel really long compared to your Niner (or anything else from 2011). Theoretically you should definitely be on a large but I guess it depends how much you want to have to adapt / risk things feeling weird. A medium should feel relatively normal if you're unsure but I'd say demo a bike if possible (even a different model if that's easier).
@@GuyKesTV I see on TV the pros running lot of seatpost exposed. I also had a 2010 Cannondale F29 alloy large but felt the bike was too big for me ,I got it used but should have got medium instead.
Keep the videos coming good review
It suits somebody with deep pockets
10:44 slower than a walking pidgeon ... and they call it "S-Works"
🤣
Epic price
Guys brain damping....ahhh trees...breath....excitement...talking....meltdown....epic bike great tech but for most riders way too focused but still what a weapon! Any chance you could test bikes like carera or voodoo? Would be interesting to see how they stack up against other brands.
Sorry Andrew just seen this. I'm scheduled to get some Boardman's very soon then hopefully Voodoo after that. From previous experience they're extremely good for the money though and there's very little they can't do
Who else wants to see an Epic WC Evo:
35mm SID Ultimate
Dropper post
85mm travel with remote lockout
Wait 6 weeks and check in again here 🤫
Me gustaría que estuvieran los vídeos subtitulados en español tendrías muchos más seguidores
Epic fail for me
That's an awful expensive bike to make that kind of noise when you brake.
We know that you have been testing bikes for over 25 years now.
Fair enough. I’ve been rattling that out for a long old time. What would you rather have as an intro? Just straight into the bike?
5 years down the road this mtb won´t be supported by Specialized so it will be useless
Yep no more Brain in the rear. Phased out
I give it 10 maybe LOL but I know what you mean. Luckily there are specialists who can still rebuild a SID brain I have from a 2012 epic SW 29.