The Audio Show winner - Gershman Studio XdB speaker
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- #audiophile system #stereo system review #hifi #speaker review
Patreon: www.gershmanacoustics.com/por...
Gear used or mentioned in this review
KEF R3 Meta speakers
Buchardt S400 MK2
Silverline Sonata speakers
Galion TS120SE integrated amp
Galion TS A75 solidstate power amp
Matrix X-Sabre 3 DAC
Mcintosh MAC6700
Mcintosh MC462
Mcintosh C2600
Atoll IN400 integrated amp
Schitt Tyr Monoblocks
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Track: Left Alone - Airixis [Audio Library Release]Music provided by Audio Library PlusWatch:
• Left Alone - Airixis | Free Backgroun... Free Download / Stream: alplus.io/left-alone
![If you can't hear this then you're not an audiophile [See description for link to followup video]](/img/n.gif)
Nice report. I am an XdB owner and I agree with everything you said. I have long been a great fan of the Grand Avant Garde, but it is just too expensive for me. So, when I heard the XdB at the Montreal show I realized that here is a chance to approach the G.A.G. sound for a price that I could possibly afford. I have owned the XdB for about 6 months now and am really loving it. It has the wonderful big, tight bass as well as the amazingly smooth highs of the G.A.G. I would not at all be surprised if the Xdb is using the same tweeter from heaven as the G.A.G. It images much better than my previous floor-standing speakers, and, better than the 3-way stand mount model that I was originally contemplating. It has been my experience that 2-way speakers often image better than 3-way speakers. As you mentioned, I found that I got a bit more "air" and more room-filling soundscape when connected to a 130 Watt amp that I tested in my system for a couple of months when compared to my own 70 Watt amp. (both at 8 ohms). People who enjoy a neutral sound would need to definitely avoid any "warm" amps.
Their room is always one of the best in every show.
Yup😊
Good to hear Canadians are still making great sounding speakers
Canada does seem to have a weird spot in audio. We seem to carry more than our weight, if that makes sense. 🇨🇦🔈👍🏻
They may have a concept that overweight cabinets can prevent resonance@@JR-ho5qm
Thanks for the review Thomas, once again you have accurately described what i also heard at the show listening to these speakers. Some day i hope to own a pair of Gershmans, i always have loved their sound.
My pleasure!
Always good to see a new video from Thomas, not to mention Gershman speakers too!
Glad to see the stuffies make a cameo appearance! Nice review thanks!
Lol.
Great review! I love gershman! These are going to be my new pair at home, excited for them to arrive!
Good choice!
Awesome welcome back Thomas. Think I suggested this before: sell entry tickets to your place so subscribers listen to the different speakers being reviewed.
Lol...people come over for free. Le Studio de Son offered to lend me their show room so I can arrange get togethers for fun.
@@ThomasAndStereo Oh yeah do it and count me in!
@@ThomasAndStereo That would be fun if your (Mr)friends would be there as well.
🤗. THANKS THOMAS ,FOR SHARING THIS STORY…🤩 it’s the best time to be an audiophile and btw … the soundtrack sounded the best ever 🤗👍IMHHO💚💚💚
Appreciate you always being there with positive energy.
WELCOME 🤗YOU WORK SO HARD TO HELP OTHERS 😅
I am fortunate enough to own a pair of Gershman Black Swans. Because most people in China do not recognize this brand, I bought them at a very low price. They sound fantasic🙂
The early version or the later version?
early
23hz... WOWZA.... I grew up watching my father stack marble slabs on top of all his speakers.. :) Great review Thomas!... :)
Very cool!
@@ThomasAndStereo
. C'Mon Thomas, you know better. How many dB down @ 23hZ?
@@TriAmpHiFiThey told me -3db, yes I know -10db is pointless.
Thank you for the video.
Thanks for watching.
These would be great to send to Erin to measure. Actually it would be a great idea to work with Erin and have him measure some speakers you review. Of course the ones the manufacturers allow to be measured.
It would also be able to ‘ assist’ you in knowing what you like. For example the air you love ( and so do I ) most likely comes from a wide dispersion speaker, with a flat or slightly elevated treble response.
Just an idea.
Great video and sharp looking speakers !
Thanks, interesting suggestion.
@@ThomasAndStereo cooperation almost always leads to good things. 😉
I got lots of good ideas. lol.
Thanks man
@@ThomasAndStereo I guess there is a downside of those who rely too much on measurements but to eliminate them doesn't count as a part of the solution.
I second this recomendation!
Given the few Gershman 'speakers that I've heard since 1995, to my ears, they're more neutral sounding that 1990s era Sonus Fabers.
Thomas, excellent review. How do you compare these speakers to the Grande Avant Gardes?. Do you have experience with the Studio II's? I have the studio II's and super impressed with them esp the bass. I am considering upgrading to the Avant Gardes. Is their night and day difference between the Audio II/XDB vs Avant Garde's?
Grand avant garde is more elegant and refined. These have more brute force and a bigger sense of scale. Grand avant garde is more for a normal room.
Thanks Thomas.
I'm going to try the Bugleboy 6DJ8 with my class D amp.
Great review Thomas. The fact that Gershman has access to a studio that they use as reference is intriguing. This brings me to another brand, Rosso Fiorentino, that also has such access to their own performance and recording space, Sala del Rosso, to use as a reference in development of their speakers. I know some of your fellow CZcams reviewers have covered some of Rosso Fiorentino's more affordable products such as the Elba 2 and Certaldo 2. Wondering if you have any experience/opinion with Rosso Fiorentino or possibility of future review of one of their products. Thanks for the good work!
I have never heard one but would love to.
I've got a feeling Skip at their North American distributor Audio Thesis would be glad to indulge you!@@ThomasAndStereo
Thank you for this review Thomas. If I may ask you a couple of questions, what size listening room do you have? Or, alternatively, what size room do you think minimally the Xdb speakers work well in? Also, how far back should one optimally sit from these speakers to allow the soundstage to fully develop? Thank you for your help!
I remember it was either 11x19 feet or 13x19ft. It worked well in my room but the point I was trying to make is the bigger the better because it is a large scale speaker. I was about 6 to 7 ft away because I like to pull out my speakers at least 4 ft from the wall.
@@ThomasAndStereo Thank you so much!
Regarding air, when I was doing diy speakers changing from basic Solen caps to higher hi caps and resistors made quite a difference in Air, of course you have to get all the other things correct,
Yup, 100% agree, I haev been playing with that myself.
You should look at the new active Buchardt with Purify drivers for bass 😊
Active is 'cheating' 😄, they will generate insanely good bass and I think more speakers should go active.
The Purifi drivers are excellent low distortion drivers. Buchardt uses them in expensive active speakers to justify the cost of the Purifi drivers.
Still doesn't come close because XDA has long throw 2inch magnets, those suspension rubber are still firm, for great ultimate hard deeeeep bass, not your usual crap soft foam.
Incredibly deep bass from a standmount! Well - not a detachable stand? A bit strange that the tweeter is not flush in the baffle?
I'd be curious to learn how a standmount has an inherent advantage in soundstage and imaging; over a similarly slim tower speaker?
Ah, have to ask the speaker experts.
Neither tweeter or midwoofer are flush. While generally unusual, some MarkAudio drivers are designed for flush mounting. Only a manufacturer enquiry or measurements will tell?
@@trevorbartram5473 right - the tweeter frame edges are going to have diffraction. The woofer is not as critical.
I can DIY this. I have a couple of 20lbs barbells too
The intention to use the weight to defuse the resonance is excellent. But couldn't it be incorporated into the enclosure?
Wonder how these compare to the Fritz Carbon.
You could call it a floorshelf speaker 😂
Lol, good one!
One of your speakers resemble mines, omnidirectional speakers (Duevel)
Hi Thomas……I’m really interested in those Schiit Tyrs. They’re needing a critical review/ comparison, which has been absent within the CZcams HiFi community.
I beg you please.
Soon but will be on the Absolute sound channel
Thank you Thomas.
“Air” is forever as elusive as finding my perfect speakers.
I recently started using these power cables made locally. One model is for the source-type devices, and one is for power or high-current ones. Both cables use similar materials and share nearly identical proprietary parts, construction methods, geometry, and techniques. I started with just a couple of them on the source components and couldn’t stop. Then there were three more after, one for the preamp and two more for the power amps.
Eventually, I realized three significant findings after I started using them. One - Synergy from the similarly designed cables produced a more substantial improvement than possible if I had mixed cables from different brands. Two - with one on each of the components in the system, the power cables form a complete protective shield against interferences from the AC. The sound is much cleaner, quieter, and more dynamic. The tones or timbre are fuller and more complex, the decays are longer, and the micro and macro dynamics and details have also improved. Three - Perhaps due to the cleaner power, the sound or the entire soundstage has also become "Airier" or has a more palpable sense of presence and layering of depth. These cables did not change the tonal balance of the sound. They only allowed the components to operate much better with purer AC.
If you only use one brand of cables in the system, you will have a better chance of having synergy than mixing.
What is Air? Air is from the delicate nuances in the high frequencies. If your power is not clean or quiet enough, the artifacts may mask or cancel these very high and tiny spatial signals we call Air.
Cables!!!! You are brave to talk about this publicly;) Interesting because my latest solidstate power amp has tons of air., I wonder why.
@@ThomasAndStereo anyhow, it's not about cables. I just wanted to say, to improve *airy-ness* it is all about clean power, and synergy 🙏🏻
I disagree on a couple of points. If the cables have an weaknesses they will be compounded by using an entire loom of that brand. I'll admit that it is much more difficult to get different brands to work together but the results can exceed that of using the same model of cable. I have found that cables work best with specific components meaning that a certain power cord works great for an amp but not so much for a preamp. I select cables that work with a specific component but also that simultaneously plays well within the system. Then again, I have been doing this for over 45 years.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Dear Carlos, Thank you for your comment. It sounds like we should be about the same age too. I started listening to my father's system around 10 or 11, and then around my high school years I saved up each summer to upgrade. My first piece was a Rega P3 with the then brand-new RB300.
Back to the cables, I didn’t notice any weaknesses; otherwise, I wouldn’t use them on my entire system. Of course, YMMV.
Initially, I started just one at a time: the DAC, then the streamer. This process took almost two years and was always on a no-commitment trial basis.
First, there was only one version for the source-type components; the one designed for the power amp and pre-amps came much later. In hindsight, I deduced the synergy was with the cables.
Would you consider the new Yamaha NR2000a to be a current based amp? 👍🏻
It is a design choice by the designer. I can't tell by looking at it.
Do they make their own drivers? Because it looks like they are using a Dayton rs hr 8 subwoofer. It's a sub but it can be crossed around 1500 hz
I don't think they are big enough to make their own drivers. Have to email and ask them.
They have to have a long port to tune them that low in such a small cabinet so it looks like they are running it through the stand.
$10,000 seems a lot for a bookshelf speaker. How does it compare to its competitors? By PR Department?
To me air is when the sound and reverb hangs in the air decaying slowly, making you feel like you are hearing the music live in the recording studio.
Yes, that explanation works!
Thomas: A sound engineer of a famous recording studio in Belgium told me that, in order for a recording to have air, he added a narrow peak of 5 dB at 15 kHz. It won't sound brighter but it puts a space around the instruments which provides better clarity (or something like that).
Most planar or AMT tweeters produce emphasis in the 10-20KHz region, perhaps the're onto something good?
@@trevorbartram5473 Not if you don't want to hear any emphasis in the treble. Emphasis in the recording + emphasis of the speakers = Ouch!
Thanks for sharing. Interesting.
@@cremersalex Not at 15kHz. Brightness/Harsh zone is much much lower, some say 2kHz but I say it starts at 6kHz to 1.5kHz.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt 'Air' is situated at 1500 Hz?! Okay, I will spread the news!
Mr T what you need to get is a oval balanced reproduction of your vocal recording in your situation and that is a shot gun microphone above you out of sight and pointing down at your face. Couple it with something like a latch lake stand. Then you will get uniformed results with all audio recordings within your videos. By doing this you then enter into the pro end result/s
I do have very good mics BUT the problem is not the mic but the camera. Nikon D750 sucks for audio recording, meaning it clips if I increase the volume. I did try to buy a video camera but found out quickly that the cheap video cameras really suck when it comes to image quality. My only option that I am happy with is to send about $2k to $3k to get a new camera.
@@ThomasAndStereo You not only need the correct mic for the job you also need the correct microphone input, a rack mount channel strip.
@@simonirvine1628Thanks for the suggestion, let me research it.
@@ThomasAndStereo try to buy a used d4 or d5 camera ，They will cut the air into pieces.
Thomas will you still use your Rel subs with these?
No the T7i, maybe their top of the line sub.
Interesting ! Would like to know when you do.
I have Wilson Watt puppy that produce very good base and I too want to try a pair of subs..
@maurice4407 check out my video on the million dollar system, those subs I would love to get.
wondering if those tyr's are gonna be worthy of a video?
Oh absolutely but I will make the video for another channel
You don't need expensive power amplifier, I had speakers with 87db sensitivity, I drove it with 2x rotel rb 870bx
....think 🤔 of Totem beaks...
I hope my brother can help me test the combination of Geshiman Black Swan with various amplifiers. Its voice is definitely better than xdb.
Obviously you can tell the bass is immense, because you look at the excursionwoofer , no speakers or worth over 100k has this and the rubber suspension has2inch .
If the base of the speaker is permanently attached that is the definition of a tower speaker just built with different materials.
No such thing as a tower speaker below 6 feet tall.
No offense but that's crazy! So your saying my Legacy Focus speakers at 13×16×58" tall and 200lbs isn't a tower speaker? Definition of a tower speaker is basically a speaker that stands on the floor with no stand.
@@user-ko8kx8vf1k No, seriously. Look at the definition of tower. I abhor the kind of slang that makes no sense. Even 3 foot tall speakers are called towers now. What you have is a floorstanding speaker. My speakers are taller than most people, therefore a "tower". If everything on the floor is a tower how is that a useful descriptor? This is a fairly recent bit of nonsense but it should be quashed. We should be done with the term bookshelf speaker as it's no longer appropriate and stick to stand mounted. Thirty-five years ago I had 5 foot tall 185 lb speakers and never considered them "towers". Out of curiosity which speakers do you own?
@@user-ko8kx8vf1k The reason I ask is that the ones I am familiar with don't weigh anywhere near 200lbs.
I'd expect the tweeter to be recessed at that pricepoint. The stand to me just appear to be an bass outlet near the floor to get boundary reinforcement. And you dont get wave cancellation in regular 1/4 distance to an boundary.
They might be Brass bolts, Maybe...
Adding weight to a panel to reduce panel resonant frequency is as old as the hills. My Malcom Jones (of KEF & Falcon fame) designed 1978 Tabor DIY bookshelf speakers were lined INSIDE with bitumous felt panels to add weight & DAMPEN the panels. The outside had 1/8" hardboard applied as a veneer, early constrained layer damping! As a result they weigh 50lbs each.
While the stand as a line extension is new, why not make it into a floor stander to ease construction & reduce cost?
Thanks for sharing. I think the idea is to build it like a bookshelf so they get the imaging advantage of a bookshelf.
Hi Thomas, I think that you live close by. Feel free to drop by my place to listen to the amp you heard on the show :) I'm in Richmond Hill.
I am in Montreal, not Toronto, thanks for the invite.
Sorry, don't know why I thought that you are in Toronto area :) Glad that you were able to compare amplifiers with the same speaker, considering that usually at the shows the setup is far from perfect. You can also try a little brother SQuark from Eon Art, it has the same DNA, and the magic will be still there. I had an opportunity to compare them head to head at my house.
There is back-wave control in every box speaker ever made with varying success. I would guess it's a tl or mltl. Could be wrong but unless someone cuts one open we'll never know I guess. I hate the gold screws! I still want some:-) Thanks Thomas.
Guess what? I heard these $12,000 speakers and the KEF Q150 on sale at $300 per pair sound every bit as good!
Congrats if you cannot tell the difference because you can get the $300 speaker and be just happy.
@@ThomasAndStereo absolutely why spend a ridiculous amount for absolutely no reason. I know how the music I listen to is supposed to sound
I'm sure they sound good, but I would never pay that amount of money for something with an ugly disc sitting on the top and ruining its looks. Surely, since it only serves to function as a stabilizing weight, they could have integrated it into the cabinet for a more seamless look. It sure is ugly.
That's BSis no way going to be 23 hurts not flatlined at what minus DB is it 23 hurts they don't say! You could say any woofer can do 23 Hz all depends on how many DB down is
They told me at -3db. I think in room but email them to confirm.
@@ThomasAndStereo yeah in a room that's 30 by 60 ft 😂
I built some DIY Gershman clones. Same oem midrange and tweeter anyone can buy off the shelf. They Woofer is proprietary so I chose Morel. It cost less than $1k for the pair which sells for $100k. Wish I could A/B a real pair. I guess the same could be said for every speaker brand costing over $10k. Your paying for the right to say "my speakers cost X". They do make a nice looking speaker. The gold screws look nice, don't lose them they probably charge $100ea lol
I have a friend who makes speakers professionally, not DIY. I believe he uses mostly off the shelf drivers too, Even so, it takes him years to design a speaker. When a new model or revision gets close to being final, he calls me in and I help him do the final voicing. All companies do it. One person can't do the whole thing. You need as much input as possible from different listeners using different electronics.
Anyway, its just very interesting because you may be able to clone the exterior shape, but if you don't have the blueprints to make the interior of the cabinet the same as well, I don't see how it can be done. But my main point is how much labor goes into designing a speaker like the ones in the video. The cost of the drivers themselves isn't all that much. The real cost is in the design.
The same can be said for everything in life. I can cooked just as well as the Michelin star chef as long as I have similar ingredients.
@@AT-wl9yq 100% unless you have friends in the business. Remove some drivers and examine the crossover board. Its not difficult to take a look under the hood when you have access to the speaker. None of it is magic. Just parts. GR Research has people send HIM speakers to upgrade the XO parts. He has seen 1000's of different speakers inside and out. Having instruments in your showroom is more marketing and smoke and mirrors to sell the customer on their dream. Speakers are designed with computer measurements
@@ThomasAndStereo Agreed and all those ingredients are off the shelf. Just have to learn how much and what goes where. You should have a cooking video along side a review. That would be a comedic analogy.
If you want to achieve the same effect as Gershman by purchasing your own treble and bass units and crossovers, that is impossible, because while they are making speakers, they are also using various music equipment for debugging. In a professional studio, you don’t have such conditions to test.
To say Gershman use real instruments as a music test for life like instrument sounds , an 8 inch alloy bass unit for a start doesn't possess the mid clarity of a pair of 3 way active ATC SCM50 ASL monitors , nor even the mid clarity of ATC'S basic entry level active 2 way SCM19A . I don't think the Gershman at 12000 is a good enough performer to beat both the entry level and higher level active ATC SCM ASL monitors in for midrange detail full stop . Mating an 8 inch alloy mid bass driver to a 1 inch dome silk dome is an instant recipe absolutely for non neutral coloured sound with missing midrange detail full stop . An 8 ich alloy midbass cannot do superlative detailed midrange like a pair of 3 way active ATC SCM ASL monitors , nor can an 8 inch midbass mate to a 1 inch tweeter without some serious flaw and deficiency , and with the gershman been a passive loudspeakers the deficiencies are far greater than if they had decided to make it active . At 12000 it's not worth the money , when you can buy a pair active ATC SCM monitors to suit the size of your listening space . Serious listening to recorded instruments , there is no passive loudspeaker full stop , that beats an active ATC SCM monitor for the sounds of recorded real instruments .
I don't understand how would one express an opinion without listening to this speaker. I I agree with everything Thomas says about the XdB. Your comments demonstrate, a lack of knowledge of high-end speakers.