Penn Holderness: ADHD as a Superpower (Episode 19)
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- čas přidán 28. 03. 2023
- Growing up, Penn Holderness knew he was different than his friends. He had ticks. He was called a spazz. He would cry really easily. In basketball practice, he would nearly chew through his shirt if he wasn't running around enough.
If he was growing up in the 2020's, he'd be treated for ADHD pretty quickly. But back in the 80's, ADHD information wasn't widespread, and it wasn't until college that he was officially diagnosed.On today's episode, Penn talks about growing up with ADHD, finding his passion for music and performing arts, learning how to accept his limitations and lean into his superpowers, and how he would design a school for ADHD minds.
You don't want to miss this vulnerable and hilarious episode.
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Love Penn's energy and outlook on life.
Not gonna lie, his ADHD parody of 'under the sea' has single handedly changed my view on the diagnosis ADHD.
I'm gonna be 64 next month and hearing the things you're saying I think I might have ADHD but I'll admit I was very anti-ADHD for the last 30 years since I first heard of it. I always thought it was just an excuse to give lazy kids or kids that act out in school a way to get away with not doing the work. I was called a "daydreamer" in school and my second grade wanted to hold me back. My mother said, "if she's bored now, (the teacher had said I had high retention but didn't apply it; I just stared out the window)won't she be more bored if you try to teach it all to her again if she already learned it?" Now I understand so much!
I'm Penn's age and can relate. Ive been self-employed for over a decade and it's such a relief. I work on my terms. It's so much better this way. Being someone's employee and doing what they wanted, on their schedule, felt like torture.
I learned this kind of teaching as adhd was being taught in my college classes. Im grateful to folks like Penn who make videos talking about adhd in a realistic and motivational way.
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Dietary changes have helped us a bunch. Especially with chewing and managing some of the extreme symptoms as a kid. All my kids are sensitive to dyes and certain high salycilate foods. One cant have gluten. One may have a dairy sensitivity. Worth looking into if anyone suspects dietary sensitivities. Lots od ADHD and people with autism are effected by foods. And everyone is different. It has been one of the most helpful things we have done.
LUV Penn &Kim! ADHD overshare warning: 😊 MY husband showed me your "Under the Sea" parody shortly after I was diagnosed with ADHD last year at 52 yo, after being a Family Med MD for 22 years. Didn't know what was "wrong" with me, why I couldn't keep up with paperwork like everyone else but would stay up for 3 days to reorganize my basement, but put my phone in the fridge. Great conversation with Emily. I LOVED all subjects in school, so hyperfocused, English and History best (saw it as a movie). Women with different presentation, many times dx in teens now, inattention often missed. They didn't believe girls had ADHD when I was a child, and I was a rule follower with straight A's 😮. I masked my struggles well as a woman, despite lots of inner shame and guilt, until hormonal shifts and life changes caused me to hit my "coping" wall. EVERYONE has now been dx in my home, my husband and all three (now adult) kids: wow, would have been nice to know when raising them😂! We're all trying to figure it out, meds, counseling, and SEPARATE ADHD coach. Agree, "Executive Function Dysregulation" would be better term. Thanks for all you do!
I just found this podcast today. I am a School Bus Driver for Special Needs in S. Carolina. I have no special certifications, but I have worked with various types of children over the last 25 plus years. I completely agree with Penn’s comments on needing a change in education. Thank you so much for this podcast. I look forward to hearing more. ❤
Love our bus drivers,, your kids appreciate and remember you, miss than you know! ❤️🙏💞
Thank you so much for saying that! 💗
@@r.p.9323 Truth! 🙏
I'm 50 and just diagnosed with ADHD. This whole conversation could have been with me. Penn's experience, especially when he talks about high school and college was mine to a T.
Chewing is a form of proprioception. There are actually 8 senses. Look it up. Proprioception is feeling your self in a space. Like pushing off of things chewing like in weighted blankets can help meet that need. Vestibular is another one. Has to do with inner ear. another sense so spinning and swinging shaking head. And the other one is interoception which is noticing your feeling in your body. So being hyper aware of how things feel but also being disconnected like not realizing you need to go to the bathroom type stuff. As a neurodivergent family we have experienced lots of sensory issues either needing to avoid things or sensory seeking. Everyone has different needs. Wendy Bertagnole did a great job explaining these things and would be a good resource for anyone interested in learning more. 😊
You also have undiagnosed adult ADD listeners! My psychologist lifelong BFF told me 15 years ago “oh yes, you have ADD!”, it was a relief and very strangely reassuring.
For me, college math was the struggle. English, poetry, etc were easy because I could just think and talk. Math was a struggle because I never learned how to learn in high school. Getting through college and into the real world let’s me use my hyper focus and outside the box thinking to be successful in my engineering career.
I used to find history really boring until I looked at archaeology (especially relating to the bible, which if true relates to everyone personally!) It makes it so much more tangible and helps me focus and imagine myself in the story.
I also found history programmes like: Who do you think you are? that related the history to celebrities families, and told it from a really personal perspective. I learned so much more this way than I could take in from books.
Yes, my son getting diagnosed led me to realize I probably have ADHD as well. It all just made sooooo much sense. I program everything into my phone with alarms and prompt. We call her Samantha and we thank her when she helps us get everything taken care of! I wish our son could continue to go to a Montessori school. It let him follow his interests, change frequently, work at his own pace, etc.
I’m 78. Loved listening to PH. Once worked wit kids with autism, raised and caregave for 45 years someone profoundly effected by multiple disabilities including autism, had my own struggles throughout school until I figured out my weaknesses and figured out strategies that finally got me through college. Loved hearing these insights. Thank you so much!
Of course! We’re so happy to produce great podcasts like this😊
My easy classes were history (yay for remembering dates) and English. I overcompensated so much with my English skills that a severe mathematical learning disability was not discovered until after my first attempt at my Masters. The only sciences i could understand or get into were things like Astronomy & Geology. Being female, quiet and the academic attention on others also led to me thinking I wasn't smart and capable until the test that revealed this issue. I truly believe all need to be tested to help us. I could have had a much better time in math classes in high school but i was told i needed 3 years of Algebra to do Probs and Stats- i needed that class to prep for Library Sciences. I didn't get help from the teacher in Algebra 3 even though i asked (mind you half the class was failing so it wasn't just me). Failed, ended up in Business Math to get the final math credit and I learned there was Personal Math too. Got to college and Probs and Stats was considered a lower level class... I was about the only one to enjoy it. I found the maths I'm good though.
Education needs to change and testing needs to be for helping a child's career, not seen as punishment or to correct behaviour issues.
I sincerely enjoyed this podcast. I am an adult with a neurodivergent brain (tourettes and maybe something else - no, it is NOT a swearing disease). This may give you an idea for your school (that does not yet exist) to teach history. Consider interactive storytelling.
I am a professional storyteller and puppeteer. I teach history through storytelling, not lecture), and also with puppetry. The bits of 'trivia' that are included in the performance turn the the people from vacant to "OMG, that was a real person". In addition, there are A LOT of people who made history and were neurodivergent. As a kid history class was dreadful, as a teaching artist I want students to learn, retain, and have fun with information. So many subjects can be taught through story.
I get it, my brain is atypical, so I use my atypical brain to teach in an atypical way. I created my own job as a teaching artist.
This is interesting to me, as a person with adhd myself I can’t focus in math class, when you said it was you and made sense- totally not me. Now history classes, I could have been in them all day. I lived for that class. Not 15 min. Not terrible class. So I think that’s the hard thing, in our similarities we are all so different. (Also a mom to a few adhd boys and married to adhd man, former classroom elementary teacher for 18 years and now a homeschool mom since one of my kids couldn’t handle the traditional format)
Thank you very much for this! I’m 61, and am coming to realize that I probably have ADHD (among other things), and that I really need to get tested. This explains so much for me.
So glad this was helpful for you, Robert! 😊
I’m in the category of “you just described my brain” when hearing my daughter diagnosed and it has explained soooo much of my life. This was a great discussion. And btw…Penn’s plan for a school curriculum sounds amazing! 😅
So interesting! Part of the reason I’ve become such a fan of Penn and Kim is because I feel like their relationship mirrors mine and my wife, I’m very much the ADD person who wants “think outside the box”, and she’s very introverted and struggles with anxiety.
It’s funny because all the things that Penn excels at were the things I struggled with, I wanted to be good at music, but couldn’t find rhythm to save my life, and in the same way that he excelled at math, I did great at history, remembering names and dates just comes east to me, whereas math was pretty difficult unless I saw a real-life application for it.
Thanks for this great interview!
Thank you for your podcast and the honest discussion about ADHD. I saw myself and my kids. Very relatable and real.
No one ever gave me a break. No one even admit that I had ADHD and Asperger's until I had 65. I figured it out -- and the jig was up.
A D50, that’s a synth legend! That would have been one awesome rabbit hole!
This was AMAZING!! When Penn mentioned Jessica McCabe, my heart melted!! I love her and have been watching her CZcams channel for years now. I also love it when he said talk about what you're ashamed of because this makes shame go away! This made me right away think of Brene Brown as it's what she recommends also!!
I love Jessica McCabe's channel 'How to ADHD' - I highly reccomend it.
That’s so interesting I’m good at English and poetry and arts and I have adhd. Math and science have always been hard.
Honestly! Why are we not structuring schools better like this yet??! Like you said, it would help neurodivergent students And other students as well. It would be so much more effective at teaching/learning! We all hopefully know now that children learn better through movement and play and interaction, so why are schools (schools, the part of our lives meant to educate, meant to be smarter) still acting stupid and not using this knowledge to better teach? As I studied in college how to be a better teacher I was taught better ways to use this knowledge in my future classes, but when it came to student teaching and working in the schools I felt I was confined and limited again, like that ability to teach better was being ripped from me, like a band aide. I got frustrated as an aspiring teacher and even more so as a parent. We need better schools.
Agreed!
What is great about this podcast is that neurodivergent doesn't just apply to the ADHD brain but for others such as LD brains as well. All of the strategies you discussed work well for these students as well. Further....these are all just really good strategies for learning...period. What is good for one, is good for all. Just because you CAN learn facing the front of the room listening to a lecture, doesn't mean you SHOULD learn that way. I just loved this podcast!!!
Yes! This! Just because a bunch of students might be able to learn the “traditional” way of sitting quietly and listening to a teacher, for hours doesn’t mean they should
My brother chewed on his t-shirts as well (as a kid). His tick was a nervous cough - more like clearing his throat.
Adhd is a awesome brain 🧠
I like the name EFD executive function dysregulation. It’s makes more sense to me related to what it is. Thank you for advocating, for sharing, for your positivity, and doing these videos and all that you do to help improve life for people with this!
A lot of this hits home. Growing up, I was terrified of being misdiagnosed. I didn’t want to just be forcefully medicated. There are a lot of similar things people struggle with that cause them to act and or think similarly, such as dyslexia, for me personally, and dysgraphia and dyscalcula, also PTSD.
Also, just adding my son also chewed his shirts and we discovered he was loosing his molars earlier than normal because of a physical trauma he had experienced (the dentist said it could’ve been caused by a physical trauma like a car accident), and his molar roots were dissolving which made him antsy and feel the need to chew. After his teeth fell out, it went away.
Shame is the biggest thing for me. I constantly think I should be doing better, but I can't.
Grand Junction, CO!!! I was probably in 8th grade there when Penn was there as an anchor :)
In homeschooling, the Charlotte Mason approach suggests very short (around 20 min) classes and lots of them and lots of variety. Not sure it's perfect for ADHD but that approach dates back to the 1800s!
I'm sensitive and anxious and I loved the teachers that challenged the crap out of me too. ADHD brains just work well that way I've found, it's the pressure. 🙋♀️ I was also good at maths (still am its part of my job now) and rubbish at history for the exact reasons he mentioned! 😊
I always learned best from the intresting fun and story telling teachers. Like the fun ones. Or the ones that really loved it. Or the ones that found ways to inspire. Or used humor. The nice ones. I always did best with friendly bosses too. Bitter/ shallow/boring/ mean or angry people i dont connect with enough to learn from.
ADHD is only a superpower for those who are not severely affected. It's the same with autism it's very easy for people who are mildly affected to pretend that there isn't significant problems that come with it. Those who are more affected don't have a voice because mild sufferers don't acknowledge that they don't have the debilitating symptoms that many others have. No one would say being unable to speak or even keep your house clean is a super power. We must acknowledge that it isn't a superpower for everyone and that there is real accommodations and help that may be needed for everyday life. Some people with ADHD are so affected they can't work at all. How is that a superpower for them? It's not. We must admit that.
Having support around yourself is important and not everyone has that. So even if the super powers are there they may not have the support or encouragement or people around them helping with life. But even when you do have those things there are still things that come up that happen because of brains that work different. He still has lots of those moments even with all the awesome things his brain does.
I am 55 and was diagnosed last year. I knew for years that I probably was because I didn't know anyone that had as many hobbies as I do 😂. It explained a lot.
That's me too! 😂 I'm always wondering what I earth people do without hobbies!!
Sign me up to that awesome school!
Loved this podcast! I will be sharing with my families and students. I am curious - was Penn tested for any comorbidities like dyslexia? Also, I am an ADHD adult , also with dysleixa and dyscalculia (oddly, didn't know the names of these challenges that I have had all my life until I was working with students with similar) and I am like Penn with an intensive resume of things I have done in my life. For the last 11 years I have been a tutor and instructor, specializing in working with and having classes for neurodivergent students. I am now in grad school for educational therapy, working with my state for my teaching cert and in the mean time started the school that Penn mentioned! And we do it just like he said! Inclusive of 15 minute lessons, revisited during the day - and it is 100% kinetic - I am working on establishing time and space at various gymnastic, ninja, trampoline, rock climbing, etc gyms so that when we want a break from class movement, we have other physical areas to move ... Cela Education is in its infancy but I would LOVE more feedback from Penn and others on how to make this take off ... (and PS... I don't write songs that quick but have business ideas that quick (which my clients loved when I was a senior consultant on emergency (going to be sued) projects - that is is our strength - we are good ER people ;D) - brew idea is a double-decker bus turned into two level classrooms - can be driven to the locations mentioned above - the "school bus" .... if the mobile library can work this can too! :D)
WOW that's amazing!!
I like all of the things that I have seen and I share them with my family and they are sick of me sharing things with them 😂😂 but it’s okay. Cuz I’m layed up in the hospital from a motorcycle accident first one and I have been riding since I was 13 😄😄 keep up the amazing video’s
We basically need a daily Hunger Games/Montessori Mashup! 👍🎯😎
That light switch and the poor cutout around it behind Penn.... argh.
I was always awful at english and history. Horrible grades. Never finished teh novels. Bad at spelling. And dates. Now as an adult i really actually like learning about history.... But the stories about the past. Not memorizing dates. Like doccumentaries or somone talking about history who are passionate about it.
I wonder how an ADHD person would respond to “cooperative learning”.
My college transcripts were mostly performance/arts based as well. College was TOUGH for me, from a time management/self management perspective. 😬 I survived my literature based classes by using Spark notes.
Did you delete my other comment? I don't see it? I totally didn't come on here to intentionally spam about homeschool, lol! I just enjoy watching the Holderness family and I happen to be a mom with ADHD and homeschool my kids :) Sorry about that! Great interview!
How can we help an adult coworker with adhd??
As a neurodivergent adult who had a lot of confusing experiences in the workplace, thank you for asking this question. I know it's not easy at times to work with neurodivergence, but a little understanding, or as Penn puts it, "grace," goes a long way. We can pick up on disapproval and with our sensitivity, it feels like a ton of bricks. Give them the benefit of the doubt, that they want to be good and are trying their best. Praise them for the things they do well, and then make suggestions for how to conform even better. Let them explain their way of thinking and don't automatically shut it down, even if it makes no sense to you. Explain your own set boundaries and needs, too, while acknowledging theirs. Like I said, assume they want to be helpful and productive. Everyone likes to be appreciated for their unique gifts, so focus on that whenever you can, while also challenging them to try new ways they might not have thought of. If they do get emotional in a work setting, don't treat them like a child. Treat them like another adult who is having a hard time. Even if it seems like it's all about something so small. The contributions neurodivergent people can make are limitless and exciting. Like the viral video that the Holderness family made that caught lightning in a bottle and kickstarted a company. It's really worth it to be sensitive and compassionate, but also keep your boundaries and expectations. I think if we're honest, we'll say that every human relationship has unique challenges and rewards, and this isn't really different. When we learn to work with someone on the autism or ADHD spectrum, we are really learning a better way to work with anyone.
God rules over all
What about Montessori? A true Montessori classroom works well with ADHD brains.
Penns School sounds great. 🙂 I say do it.
Are you sure he should not have a dual diagnosis? He sounds like me and high masking autistic,it is not a male/female thing, and I hate that professionals still think of girl/boy traits. Many people like us have had only the one diagnosis. Jessica McCabe who he mentions does not know when she will seek the 2nd diagnosis, but already believes she is also autistic. I have a friend who is also has a very supportive mother, who believes her son should be dual diagnosed. I am just saying, and it is my own opinion. yes he does just fine without the diagnosis, but to bring awareness to it being a gift and not just something neurotypical people can punish us for, that I wish he would see about it at least.
Many are gifted and ADHD. Or also have OCD. There is so much crossing over of everything and things that overlap. So many co existing conditions.
And that can actually be hard for diagnosis especially when there are people that internalize a lot of things. Or forget to mention things that are an issue. Because recalling things and planning ahead can be a big issue with ADHD. And making appointments to begin with. And usually adults in their life may be neurodivergent as well. They keep making more discoveries and everyone is so individual.