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Jagex & Players Will RUIN Chambers of Xeric in Oldschool Runescape
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- čas přidán 2. 10. 2023
- I think Jagex & the community could absolutely cause some serious damage to Chambers of Xeric if they are not careful with this raid. Not a fan of these changes at all. The scouting changes just dont make sense to the majority of players, its catering to people who refuse to accept the content in its entirety or those that want to milk it for every purple that they can.
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Wait so no more buying raids service? Sounds good to me lol
i wouldn't care about the layout if it always no-prep. clearly devs agree that prepping is shit since raid 2 and 3 both hand you supplies instantly
agree. just remove prep for real lool
If you try to please everyone, you’ll end up pleasing no one
I thought your videos were a bit all over the place when I first started watching. Now I understand your personality and watching more or your content. Its a good pass time and enjoyable. Good vids brother.
The problem with cox is clearly bigger than just 'picking your raid layout'. If undesirable rooms gave more points, people would avoid them less. I think I'm with you on this, cox needs a bigger look at, not just a band-aid 'choose your layout' fix.
Lever scaling is a big dub tho. Makes suicide into olm duos wayyyyyy more rewarding lmao
Didn't they suggest this at first?
Scale 5 man cox. Die in olm, finish and still profit 😎
@@GorastMK Maybe, I'm not completely in the loop honestly. There is one major problem though, Vasa and Vespula are pretty gear check'd. Choosing those rooms when running rcb + karil's is not worth. But if you're geared, those rooms are the most desirable.
I’ve never raided, so I really feel confident in adding to this discussion.
Scouting sounds stupid and should be removed.
Thanks for listening to my valuable feedback
I agree, I think this is a very narrow way to look at a raid.
I only started to raid a year ago and did a few chambers and toa and a few entry mode tob for the achievements.
To start raiding you already depend on people taking you to the raid. You lose a bunch of money to simply learn the raid, by this point I might aswell go sit down, do homework and try find a job to make actual money to afford buying the ingame items or something, a raid should not feel like a chore!
This is a video game, half the players out there stopped playing because they refuse ti develop stockholm syndrome with a videogame that initially had the complexity of a tabletop.
"Oh the prices will go down!" Like, that's a problem? Why? Because several people feel burnt when they think of the hours they invested in getting a Tbow? Maybe the pitch should be that runescape changes should come with a therapist that talks them through their trauma so that they can cope with the fact that other players have it easy and they didn't get it easy.
Sounds rough, but a game where every single player started scouting rooms for the raid instead of just enjoying the content is an outcry for change, and acting like that is not a fact is extremly dumb.
I really disliked COX when I ran it in Leagues. It just wasn't fun. I would totally take a fully customizable raid, to where I could set it up in a way for maximum fun and smooth grindability, even if the efficient purple rate per hour was lower on those custom raids. I think that's the appropriate solution. Add customization, but decrease points so that custom VTVs generate fewer purples per hour than the average of random raids. Forget the GP input. IF this results in more purples coming into the game, it'll be because people are enjoying the game more, playing more, not because the drop rate is effectively buffed.
I agree, custom raids should reward fewer purples.
Agreed, this is the only way that makes sense. In ToA making it more difficult makes up for a higher percentage for you to get a unique, it just makes sense. If you have the option to make it easier, it just makes sense to decrease the chance for a unique, and that's it.
@@bigidibeng in no way does having custom layouts make the raid easier, considering olm is by far the hardest boss
Can anyone explain what a VTV is?
@@petermarshall9204 VTV stands for Vasa, Tekton, Vespula. Those three bosses, with two puzzle rooms, is the optimal speedrun layout.
I am dog water at the game but what I would hope for is a beginner mode that only has the dex and arcane drops possible. This is just from an Ironmans perspective though.
Unironically, that might be the play. Fully customizeable raids -> only scrolls as rewards, but it satiates noobs/ early ironmen and speedrunners without completely breaking the raid
ironmen should have it even harder than normal solo only all raids
ive said this a couple times i think, but i think they should take out one of the three notice boards for dials that match the two circles of layouts, you scroll between the two of them and theres a section of 5-9 rooms in the middle that it picks between the two sides of the dials, just make it so that they have to offset one so that they dont intersect/give the same raid over and over so going in is still randomish because you dont know which side itll pick from, but you also dont have to swim through a sea of bullshit when youre trying to find a good learner raid to help teach peopl/do your speed runs
it just seems easier, and it feels like it does this already, but being able to pick the route just sounds better than spending gp. as for scaling, adopt the same system d2 had, but instead of players8 you just set the dial to 1-100
King Condor PLEASE get this idea to Jagex because I don't have the platform to do it.
The way to fix CoX but also maintain the spirit of the raid is to create a Room Block List, this would function kinda like a Slayer block list, give 1 block upon completion of any CoX raid, so 1 kc'ers get the first block slot to block any one room, award a second one for completing the Elite CA's, and a third one for completing the Master CA's. MAYBE a 4th one for Grandmaster CA's but I think 3 blocks is more than fine.
This would allow players to customize raids to be more learner-friendly if taking learners/nooby friends, customize them for more points per raid, or for speedruns by cutting out the longer rooms. Throughout all of this the spirit of the raid being randomized is still intact, you just have some ability to optimize the random layouts you get by omitting a handful of rooms. For example if you're taking nooby learners just cut out Vanguards Tekton and Vasa or something.
Hey condor, love your stuff and as a player who loves all things cox I thought i'd share some insights on how this balance feels
the best by far gp u can earn at cox is selling purple services to ironmen and the like for roughly 650m per 80% chance, down to 250m for 50.
the cost of these layouts ranges from 10-15m, then an additional 500k-1m per head scaling the raid. The expense usually lands around 50-60m after all is said and done and with the raid taking on average 2hrs to complete. it's roughly 100m p/hr give or take to the carry(s).
this is the most problematic balancing for cox because no average player will ever see this kind of money and it would get many times worse with these changes.
these changes removes scouting perfect raids, speed raids, scaling raids etc. from the equation which I personally think is a good thing, the price is just way off.
if a speed chambers solo ran this at 13minutes per run, let's say 5 runs per hour (I realize that's 4.6, but for arguments sake) he'll take away 12m/hr running chambers at peak efficiency. Toa and nex dwarf this gp/hr currently with ToA in 500+1 being roughly 25m+/hr and efficient nex at roughly 20m/hr.
This isn't to say these changes aren't imbalanced it's just not in the same realm as content rivaling it's difficulty.
The only thing i'd say is, if they want the specific raid they'd have to pay for previously, it should cost the previously established pricing, because you're just cutting the middle man out at the end of the day, and the majority of scouters/scalers are botters anyways (the supply and demand feels irrelevant is what I mean).
Make perfect scaled raid layouts cost 20m, perfect speed layouts cost 3m and each scale cost 1m, that way the established meta of paying for scouts/scales is completely unaffected (except for convenience) and price non-optimal layouts at their price point of 500k, I don't see much issue in that.
TL:DR the underground cesspool of selling purples doesn't really care much about all this and is by far the most abused thing chambers has, other than that the pricing just seems a bit off. Speed raids should be that, going for speed times and the player should lose or barely make money doing them imo, the rest doesn't matter much
A tradeable reward token from the raid that would allow you to customize the raid then let the community put its value in it
1/3 rate.
@@MrDemiraca i was thinking more like dark relic and torn prayer scroll table
@@MrDemiraca 2/1 rate with the teleport to the boss being 0/100 rate
that was very smooth start of the video. got me hooked right away
Lets add some actual QOL updates, make it so irons and mains can raid together (irons currently cant pick up drops if main does majority dmg to boss) Make scavs drop the potion secondaries more frequently. Put an axe at mutta room so the tree can be chopped without having to bring an axe in.
Scavs should drop on a reliable cycle.
I thought Irons stand alone.......
@@jbugz134 we do, but at the same time why do iron pots drop for all? and why can we share pots among iron only raids? the consistency of cox pots is hot garbage and any other opinion is hot garbage. you already cant boost spells/ level with ovls so what are you really gaining from having all pots be shared?
“You’re the fuckin game devs” got me some sort way 😂😂😂
I think they should just make an entry mode for learners like with tob, and scrap all this
i’m deadass ordering nuggets in the wendy’s drive thru rn
were they good?
every time @@aria..uwu..
I like the idea of limiting the number of fully customized scouts you can do per day but I also didn't like the idea of tying it to achievement diaries or combat achievements, but what if they tied it to CM completions the same way they do the capes, each additional completion tier grants you additional scouts per day
5 Per day, Per player. Same as Mage cape spell book swaps @ 2m per player. Although still potentially damaging to the raid / unique prices in the long run. Still somewhat of a small preventative measure to mitigate some of that.
30 days -
300m gold sink per player, per month.
3 man team - 900m sink, per month.
But what about irons? They can't afford that.
pay the fees on your main all the cost comes down to the person who creates the raid@@Khrayfish
But how will this effect the tbow price & legacy
Is it not add the 100k -1k per added person on top of the 500k. So it’s less then 900k for 5 man team?
Could maybe do something like ToA invocations where adding certain rooms gives you better chance at purples. Would take some balancing but I think long term it could lead to similar amounts of purples coming into the game.
Invocations won’t work in cox or tob.
@@Xxviper9214xX I don't mean actual invocations I mean an interface similar to the invocation page where you can add certain rooms to your next layout and adding different rooms gives you different chance for a purple
entry mode sounds cool at least
I mean I personally don’t mind scouting but I’m sure not paying 500k for a custom raid to go 60 dry followed by an arcane. I also don’t think it’s really fair to make noobs pay for a “noob friendly” layout where they’re most likely going to die a few times anyways
All i hope is that people vote for what they want instead of listening to a guy that plays this game for a job. Let people have fun after working all day. Scouting is dogshit.
Yeah, he has some pretty bad takes lol.
"You're just thinking about what you want".. That tends to be how polls work boss
another worry is botting when it comes to choosing your layout if you can know for sure you will get a certain route i bet there is some nerd out there that can make a bot do these raids consistently.
There are some really high end bots out there able to do some of the hardest content in game from 5:1 no armor redemption CG to Hard Mode TOB to challenge mode COX.
They just blend in much better since those accounts are maxed combat with hundreds of KC on different bosses.
Bot makers don’t need this to make a bot work, they can do stuff completely impossible for a human.
Yeah I see what you mean at first I was like it sounds really dope but if we left it to the beginner section then people could learn each part specifically at their own pace then dive into the deep end.
I can’t wait for the people who vote yes to this to complain when their tbows cost 800m
Boo hoo, 99% of the player base still won’t be able to afford it
It's not gonna crash the prices lol. Everyone who thinks this has probably never done cox before
@@rsxar you might not remember what happened to fang prices, I think mod ash said they turned off deleting tbows off the ge, so unless they turn in back on, they probably gonna dip pretty hard.
@mateosteves fang price isn't very comparable, that was doomed from the start. Tbow isn't gonna crash because there won't be a substantial increase in gp/hr from the cox changes, it'll be fairly miniscule
@@mateostevesim 500 toas deep, ive seen 8 fang splits, and 3 in my name. 1k cox, and i have 1 tbow logged, seen 3 splits. yeah tbow crashing hard at those rates/s
Maybe it's my inexperience, but I think the raid should be fully randomized and they should just find a way to fucking destroy scouting. Just remove that sweaty shit from the game. Then add a paid beginner mode so learners can do that version, lower purple or even disable it altogether in beginner mode (I'd remove the cost if it were disabled) and call it a day. If they want speedrunners to have a place to compete, add another checkbox for the "weekly" or "monthly" layout for people to compete on, with no purple drops.
I don’t have any CoX runs, but this seems lame. I don’t even understand how the logic of “o if I scout for 2hrs to find the best room set up it makes sense instead of taking an extra 5-10min in the raid” makes sense to people.
500k is fine imo, the high level comunity was printing purples anyway, now its just a little cheaper for them to do so; it also gets rid of another "service" your paying another player or a bot for.
I like the idea of it, but instead of changing CoX, could easily just add a simpler raid, with purples that are lower in stats, and have it as an entrance into raiding overall. PvM and boss fights have always been a large part of OSRS, raids have it all, but it's locked away to end game.
But changing an already well placed raid to make it easier just isn't the way to do it. Would rather a new raid with lesser gear that's still worthwhile alongside being an entrance. Something for mid-late game, with uniques being worth ~50-200m instead of the 1b+ uniques CoX gives.
Why don't they just do it based off a point system.
As an example, shams would we worth 1 point, muta would be worth 2 points and tekton would be worth 3. In order to create a raid with a custom layout, you'd have to meet a certain point threshold.
They could even add the puzzle rooms and assign their own point values, something like ice demon that takes a fuck off long ass time with ass cheeks points would be worth more points than something like crabs
Don't you get significant loot penalties for TOB entry mode, cannot even get uniques? Better be the same here because people should not be allowed to tailor the easiest possible raid experience every time to streamline loot gain. Just won't help any aspect of the game at all.
... wait after 40 minutes of all this I''m starting to think that customizable raids is ONLY for solo players to get a custom layout with custom scale. That it wouldn't allow for a group to play a custom layout together, so that should limit the whole "clans dumping purples into the game" ... right?
scouting is absolute no for me and i dont know why jmods who develeped cox even considered giving players custom layouts or even why they introduce scouting plugin into official client, it goes completely againts design of this riad
scouting is remedy to symptom not the root of a problem, i would leave it as is and rather rebalance points for each room so the lenght of the raid is not the most important factor while efficiently farming + there is absolute dogshit of a challange mode that is not worth doing for majority of players right now ,why not updating that instead
at the end of the day i personally dont care, i have green log
gz on green log
What if they made it to where you could only participate in a certain number of custom raids a week
How about just buff the useless mega rare elder malul I just got on my iron
This might be an unpopular take but I think the procedural nature of cox just doesn't work. The fact that you can even skip rooms at all is weird to me. CMs but with stats scaled down is what standard cox should've been from the beginning. I'd be willing to bet that way more people would be okay with fighting vasa and vespula if they were actually fun and not heavily rng dependent. The portal redemption meta with vespula is so fucking cringe. They seriously need to rework some of the rooms to be challenging in a fun and engaging way that feels fair rather than frustrating.
Fully customizable might mean a new meta too that’s even faster, tekton -> vespula -> tightrope ->vasa ->crabs sounds fast. Start with tekton so overload whole raid
It clearly says 500k to start a custom raid, and an additional 100k,99k,98k for duo, trio, so on so forth.
The 100k, 99k, 98k is for scales, not for other players in the raid
Even as a high lvl who's never even got to run COX. I hate these changes. Don't make it a TOA cousin, I want the same chance of a purple just doing it the "pre-now" way.
What if they make it a fee of max cash to buy into the customisability, and then 2m per raid... that way only people that know they'll be spending a very long time throwing down custom raids will buy into it?
People just want other to suffer just like they have suffered
This honestly sounds like it’ll be much better as a Practise/Entry mode version or something
If the only way you can complete cox is to ignore most of it, you should receive way less profit. That’s all there is to it.
Just run CMs anyways its easier to learn cause every room is the same every time.
people pay bots 5m for good scouts. i know all the rooms in the raid, its just moving a process that is done by bots, and letting players actually play the game. its not like tbows are just going to be flooding into the game, its still insanely rare, and has been in the game for a half a decade.
Cox sucks. Prepping sucks and scout sucks as well. It needs some sort of update.
What if manual setups is just an option that does reduce drop rate slightly
if your raid has been amended in any way then the rewards should only be the dex and arcane
Lmfao
How would this devalue purples? If people are spam paying 500k per raid and seeing a purple 1/16 raids or so they're losing 8m in cash before they are at rate for a purple (in solos). If purples crashed it wouldn't make sense to run the fully custom layouts for profit. The prices will either maintain high enough to keep it worth it or people will stop running solo layouts. People can already buy perfect layouts from bots and purple prices are doing just fine.
Shouldn't cms yield the best purples anyway?
The invocation system barely works in toa? Wat
Can they fix how u get in to the raid if I’m soloing it I still have to make a stupid ass cc
Personally, all I care about is whether or not I'm enjoying the raid... If I can spend a bit of GP to pick the encounters I actually enjoy doing, then I think that's completely worth the tradeoff of some purples dropping a little bit in value. Oh no, the T-Bow is gonna be 1.3B instead of 1.4B... Big whoop... It's better game design and that's objectively true.
Maybe each room could have a cost instead of the whole raid being customisable for a fee each room you change or add costs a certain amount and make the meta rooms more expensive
From the perspective of taking this out of the control from scouting bot clans, surely it acts as a money sink to a degree? As the GP will be taken out the game for the raid, the players paying for the service on Discord etc just give the money to people that will RTW it.
So even if this doesn't come out at all, people can still get a VTV for like 1-3M depending on the other rooms/order of rooms.
Let them have customizable raids. No loot. Not just no purples bit absolutely nothing not even the tablet. Speed runners cant be upset because they are speed running and everyone else suck shit or do a normal raid.
Reddit will mindlessly pollbomb and vote "yes" to anything that involves adding content, no matter what the actual content is. Thats gonna be the death of this game in the future
hot take: the price going down for cox purple is a good thing. Gatekeepers will disagree, but tbow and ancestral should be more accessible
add this but if you choose to use custom scout you pay the 500k and have 50% purple chance reduced. there. speed runners are happy, noobs are happy
Gross
Why mole slippies crashing?! WHAT HAPPENED TO 30MIL BY EOY!?!
Gotta face it man, band-aid fixes are the META with the polling system existing. They cant poll each individual detail of a large scale fix without a ton more turmoil than just scar-essence-min'ing it
Having the same 5 room WILL INDEFINITELY allow botters to now script that "custom" layout and be able to bot CoX. This is just a bad bad re-work for scouting or custom layouts. Botters are litearlly drooling for this.
I prefer CoX over ToB or ToA and this update if put into play will ruin CoX along with item prices.
putting a gp wall up for custom raids and makes the rich players richer by giving them access to easy raids whenever they want. ez tbows for them, while the newer people that this update is supposed to be for get priced out.
I’ve done cox, it sucks. This makes it a small percent better. Still sucks though, it’s way too easy. I think they should overhaul all of the Demi bosses and give them some actual mechanics.
Not all people wanting to push speedruns are maxed with 10bil bank. I just like speedrunning and learning all the tech and scouting is such a waste of time its crazy
I might finaly be able to afford a tbow!!
The king is right.
Add quality of life but do not redesign the fkn raid
Let people pay for scaling make a beginner layout ez
SO SELL T BOW NOW? OR?????????
Darn, I’ll be able to afford a dragon hunter crossbow without raiding? Sounds good to me
lets have everything go super cheap so it benefits me, thats how i read your comment.
I understand the argument that if you make one method too good then a lot of content in the raid gets swept under the rug and that's bad way to go about something. They should make it so there's more variety even if you opt to custom. What I don't really understand is why it's a bad idea that more purples like tbow get into the game? Obviously items need to have some kind of rarity curve but right now the bis items are insanely expensive to your average player trying to build their account upwards which also encourages people to do RWT. You can argue that by printing purps people will RWT more gold but I think it's actually opposite where making the gear progression not have as insanely gpgap between them is better. But I'm not too passionate about this particular change so either way is fine with me.
Yeah people in OSRS think that content needs to be relevant for forever. When the Tbow 2 comes it will need a tbow to assemble. When ancestral 2 comes, it will need ancestral 1 to be "upgraded".
Says…no stream and to tap to try again. Can see comments tho.
Fixed 👍 I’m all in for the beginner friendly part.
im not gonna pay 500k a raid on my iron, i dont got that sorta cashflow. so this is DOA content for me, just gon scout like a unit.
Can’t they just make a hiscores table for each layout? Then there’s PBs and records to made for so much more of the same content with new metas to constantly discover
welp all those scoutbots gonna become vorkath bots now
I think they should let you buy a VTV but its like 3m
make it so expensive you're not grinding out purples, but speedrunners can still buy scouts without fueling bots
daily cap is pointless unless you make it so accounts cant participate in custom raids after a certain amount. if its just, cant make more than x a day ppl will just use alts
This seems sorta like Awakener's Orbs from DT2 bosses.
It seems like this idea of paying a large amount of money to pick a custom raid won't let people get more gp/hr (if the cost is high). But it would make it easier for people to speedrun or get CA Tasks.
I think that's sorta similar to Awakener's Obs because they are useless except for Blood Torva, the drops you get are barely better so it's basically less gp/hr than not doing it at all.
Edit: the beginner raid layout is a great idea though.
Also the multiple player cost idea of one person having to pay is bad, just use a coffer and have money be removed when you start.
Scaling costs seems like a reasonable gold sink.
Good to see this explained as to why this is a bad proposal. Haven’t reached the ability to do raids, but would love to see COX improved before I try. Here’s to hoping they listen on what the community really wants.
i just did my first cox about 4 days ago and it was so fun, took maybe 2 minutes to scout a beginner layout and we cruised through it. I highly suggest joining a clan to give it a shot
@@sked11this 100% dont be afraid of it either, i got a tbow drop in a raid with 8 deaths in a duo learner
@@sum-dum_nerdgrats to you man. Very lucky
ngl ive got almost 1k chambers and have done vespula like 3 times ever
My membership just ran out. Anyone kind enough to spare a bond? Just paid rent so cant afford a renew for 2 weeks but i wanna get back to grinding asap
add scaling, but dont add the custom raid maker. people that are serious about speedrun cox do speedrun cm's anyway.
My interpretation of the comment suggesting removal of purple chance is that you would remove the megarares but not the lower level purples (which is how entry mode toa works, entry mode fang at like 5 kc btw 😎)
Toa entry mode does not remove any purples you can get every tradeable item from entry mode-expert mode. Lightbearer-shadow
@@RugMunchKing I didn't realize that, I guess I was confused by the wording at TOA. They drastically reduce but don't completely eliminate megarares. Interesting.
Dude why tf is it go and why tf did this take so long to become a ‘blog’ . TOKENS OR FANGS PLZ JAGEX. Scaling past a certain point maybe like past +5 but fkin hell man how much time do you expect me to alch.
Im a newer player and can see it going down a similar downhill path to other dead MMOs... unfortunately
People have been saying this every week for a decade
I'm a raids noob, what do you mean when you say 'v2v'? Asking for a friend lmao
Awakeners orb type item 1/3 dr on non orbed runs? Orb item Can’t be dropped on customized raids untradeable only rolls on one player out of party so groups don’t get it non stop
Omg, it’s making the raid more accessible to everyone ? This is gonna destroy OSRS for sure 😂
its the other end of the spectrum im worried about, making the game accessible to learners is something i clearly stated that i support
Argument people doing content will make price drop the shock
If they do it the price should depend on how much a room is run so meta raids aren't profitable
Rare condor L
Can you just tell me what to vote?
Baaaaaaa 🐑
@@cripknuckles9112 duh it was a joke you knuckle dragging moron.
Love the vids man
Well said
I agree with you on most things but this is a hard fucking disagree, all it does it remove the scouting services.
the scouting service is more expensive than this and not utilised by a lot of players. This is far too cheap that it's not even comparable, which is why I suggested if they do these changes, make it 2m per raid which is roughly the lowest it would cost in a discord server selling scouts
only thing i agree with is the scalin bit, 100% pay 100k per scale, all rooms are easy enough to do. i dont understand why they need to make it so its the new purple farm. new players wont be the problem its the clans ect, im like 800 kc at cox not had 1 problem scouting, yes its annoyin but its part of the raid its what makes it cox. doesnt matter if its a vtv or even a cm, all rooms are doable and most are fast
Vasa and Vespula are pretty gear check'd though.
As if clans rn aren't just paying bot farms to scout the raid instead lmao
Vasa n veps, you either news a bofa or sang staff, bofa isn't hard to get most irons will already have it, sang on the other hand is abit more tricky, but do what me and my pal do in a 3 man, if one person is lacking gear they can sit the room out. Not fussed about loss of ticks I play the game the way I wanna xD
Vasa n veps, you either news a bofa or sang staff, bofa isn't hard to get most irons will already have it, sang on the other hand is abit more tricky, but do what me and my pal do in a 3 man, if one person is lacking gear they can sit the room out. Not fussed about loss of ticks I play the game the way I wanna xD