High School Cross Country Running Japan vs. America
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- It's well known that the depth of Japanese marathoners far surpasses that of American runners, so I wanted to find out why. The answer is multifaceted but really starts with high school training.
I was able to get some details of how they train and found out that all the top Japanese high school runners are training more than 80 miles a week and focused on maintaining 3 minutes per kilometer in their speed work and races. The result is that HUNDREDS OF JAPANESE HIGH SCHOOL RUNNERS GO SUB-15 IN THE 5K EVERY YEAR.
In this video, I also take a look at how the best U.S. high schoolers from the NXN National Team Championships would fare against the top Japanese High School Teams. It wasn't so close, so I then compared how those Japanese High Schoolers did versus the best NCAA Division 1 cross country teams- NAU, BYU, Portland, University of Colorado, and Stanford. The results might surprise you...
This explains so much to me as I recently viewed a Japanese relay race that came on my youtube feed. Not understanding Japanese, I was still amazed at the level of support the runners received, enthusiasm and the speeds they were all travelling. It awakened me to how much of a running culture the Japanese have and with your video I am beginning to get a better grasp of what I was watching and the culture. Thanks and good luck in your training. I really enjoy watching your channel. I also watch Seth DeMoor's and was happy to see you in one of his recent videos!
In Somnia 1 Thanks for watching....glad I could provide some insight. :-)
Great breakdown! Didn't realize it was 30 minutes until after it was over because it was so interesting.
Thank you so much! The hardest part of making videos is editing and keeping them short. I hope to learn that skill some day. 😀
I’m a Japanese American high school runner that’s only run under the US xc training system and I’ve been very curious about how they do it in japan. I’m so glad I found this video since I’ve literally never seen any other article or video about it. I’m aiming for a 15 flat 5k by senior year and I think a lot of the stuff in the video might be able to help me with that goal. Anyways, very insightful and interesting video 👍
That's great to hear...good luck on sub-15! My best in high school was only around 16:40 but I know I was capable of much more.
I knew very little about how the Japanese train in high school and college until I made this video. I guess we both learned something! :-)
To add a point: Many of the US's elite distance runners do not focus their energy and training on the marathon until later in their career/after their "prime." Track performances, instead of marathon racing, is the goal for the majority of the US's top distance runners, whereas it seems that it is quite the opposite in Japan. This definitely adds to the disparity.
The depth of performances, especially at the high school level is incredible. Very interesting video
Good point...and thanks for watching!
Hi Otaku! I don’t know if you’re reading this but I think it would be really cool if you expanded on this video by reacting to/comparing the insane high school/NCAA times we’re been seeing these past couple years, including ridiculous level of Newbury Park and NAU respectively. Running lane had dozens of guys sub 15 this past season, and Colin Sahlman already broke 3:59 indoors. All of the NCAA records have been rewritten since this video was put together as well. Thanks!
You are right- lots of great young American runners these past couple of years. In fact, we’re seeing amazing performances around the world. For example, there is 18 year old Keita Sato who last year ran 3:37 (1500m) and 13:31 (5000m). In Denmark young Axel Vang Christensen is running insane 3K-10k times on the track and Cross Country. I think Jakob Ingebritsen inspired lots of young runners to train hard while young and post amazing times.
Great video. The depth of Japanese distance runners has always amazed me. I think you hit the nail on the head at the end of your analysis with the important cultural influence of the Hakone ekiden on young athletes.
cowboyfunktion Thanks for writing. Did you run in school? If so, what was your training like?
@@RunningOtaku I did not. I wrestled in high school, so did some running as cross training for that. I did not start running until after medical school, at age 26. Initially just once a week with my wife, because she joined running club back in 2011. At some point I got hooked on it, and started researching the physiology, different training theories, and testing out training programs to lower my PBs at various distances on the road. Now at age 33, my goal is to break 3 hours in the marathon. I ran a PB of 3:02 in the most recent Chicago marathon. Currently I am following a modified version of Pfitzinger's 12-week plan (with volume of 65-80 miles per week). Basically adding in extra volume to his 55-70 mpw plan with more slow jogging (a la Tanaka Hiroaki) for recovery miles, and occasionally longer long runs.
cowboyfunktion Great! If you can survive Pfitz’s 70-85 plan, you’ll definitely crush the 3 hour barrier. I think we’ll find in the coming years that running is more athletic than we give it credit for and those with sports backgrounds like yours will be able to capitalize. Balance, flexibility, overall muscle development will emerge as key to maximizing our potential. It don’t think it will be just about cardiovascular development and specificity...
I'm drowning in this. These kids must have so much discipline and a great work ethic. The most I've run in one week has been 50 miles so to be running doubles every day and running at that kind of pace is just amazing. I better start running doubles soon and get up there in mileage. This will prepare me for my XC season next year. I still can't believe that Japan has such a great running culture, pure amazing.
Be careful when you increase your mileage. A good rule of thumb is no more than a 5-10% increase per week. Any more than that and you're likely to get injured. The other thing to keep in mind is to make sure you feel fully recovered before doing a hard workout. As the saying goes- do you hard days hard and your easy days easy.
Yep I totally agree. I’m currently just staying at around high 40s until I feel ready to jump to 50s. Got a blister recently so wondering any advice for like relieving the pain or like to take pressure off the blister? It’s on the bottom of my foot. Thank you for responding! Also hope you are staying safe and happy!
Blisters will usually heal on their own in 1-2 weeks. If it’s small but irritated, one solution right before your run is a little Vaseline over the blister then a bandaid and then another thin layer of Vaseline on the outside of the bandaid. That should eliminate any further friction. If it’s just fluid (not blood) inside, some prefer to pop it, but seek a professional for any invasive medical advice.
Fantastic video! One of your best! Favourite word for Japanese culture: PERSEVERANCE
dokutaaguriin Thanks! I keep trying....
This was such a great video! I did xc/ track both in high school and college. Main event being the 10k. I was never one of the top runners on the east coast, but I was running fast enough to get to IC4A’s (sub 31:30). To see high schoolers running times almost 2 minutes faster than my pr is mind blowing to me. Makes me wish the US had a larger focus on long distance like Japan does!
Wow- you’re fast! I agree with your comment; Newbury Park is showing us what’s possible with talent + 80 miles/week for high schoolers. Thanks so much for watching.
Great Video, extremely high quality!
Thanks, that’s nice of you to say. It was fun doing the research and making the video.
This video deserves a medal! Good job!!
Wow, thanks! You just made my whole week! 💥🎉🎊😀
Hakone Ekiden is truly major race, national event but High school Ekiden is also becoming very popular. It happened last week this year. National broadcast via TV and online. Thats another dream event for high schooler. High school ekiden is mix of 10K, 3K, 8K. 10K/8K run is one of the reason they run more than 80miles per week.
And the girls train just as hard! ムッソーニが記録した14分37秒。。。素晴らしいと思います。
@@RunningOtaku another fact they run so hard and long time is that they do not study much( high school and college). but entire systems can support their career path as you pointed! I was with the college rowing team, I do not remember how I got graduated. 多分 部の後輩に卒論かかせてたと思います：）
@@Ryanashita I went to college for one year in Japan. You’re right, nobody was studying. I did love the two-month spring vacation though. I skied every day with my ski racing circle!
@@RunningOtaku nice! then you must have experience Onsen( hot spa). I missed it so much ;(
@@RunningOtaku Thank you for the video with so great analysis and details. You studied for one year in Japan so you can get some information in Japanese. This is very helpful. There is not too much information about Ekiden and Japanese training system. Thank you for your works !
this year (2020) Japanese high school generated 22kids of sub 14min for 5K ! I believe you will be a hero if you are under 15min for 5K in US, its 1min difference being fast 5K runner.
Coming from a Japanese- American background, I found great interest in the detailed comparison between Japanese and American runners!
Running for a laid-back American high school team, I yearned to be a part of a more serious training group. With the thought that college running would be that way, I ran for a local division III school as I wasn't very talented but still wanted to take my running to the next level. Racing at the Division III level was a similar experience to high school in the sense that the majority of my teammates prioritized having fun over reaching their potential, making the team feel more like a club.
If I had the choice, I would have chosen to run for a program similar to the Japanese. A program with training, self improvement, and camaraderie as their focus and fun/ satisfaction as a byproduct of all the hard-work together. Although I think this way, my body would disagree with the volume
I would have made the same choice too!
Really interesting video! I think it's important to take into consideration that the NXN course is generally very slow and not a good indicator of their capabilities. For example, I believe the four fastest HS Americans in 2019 ran between 14:52 (Nico Young) and 15:10 at NXN. However, all of these individuals had a performance that season under 14:20 (or 3 mile sub 13:50), clearly on a much easier course. Also, US High Schoolers are generally more focused on the mile and 2 mile once track season comes around so their training has a lot more speed work compared to the Japanese. Awesome video!
sub 14:20 5k in cross country* - Nico Young, 3k national HS record holder and arguably one of the best HS runners ever, ran a 13:50 5k on a track later in the year. But sheesh, those Japanese kids are insanely fast!!
Great video! I learned quite a bit. How's your hamstring coming along?
Curt Bentley It’s still a little sore. I haven’t run a step since Thursday so I’m not 100% sure where it’s at. I might see a PT today, weather permitting. Thanks for asking!
This is an awesome video the comparison is crazy and I really don’t get how the Japanese athletes aren’t being injured
It really is impressive, isn’t it? (I mean the no injury thing... not my video lol)
I think I would have burnt out or been injured in high school if I had done that many miles. After high school I went in the Navy and my mileage went up and down. It was when I got out and went to UO that my mileage really went up. Appreciate your putting together the stats.
I always wonder how many injuries are caused by heavy miles and how many are caused not by the miles per se, but rather not getting enough recovery slow miles in between the hard workouts. My neighborhood had numerous very high mileage kids in elementary through high school. Some burned out, some got injured, but I don’t think the rate of either was higher than the low mileage kids’.
Great video! I was also wondering why so many Japanese were good at long distances! Do you know if they train at ALTITUDE in high school more than Americans do? That may be another reason for their insane times
Most of the “altitude” training in Japan is in Nagano prefecture, but it’s under 5000 feet elevation. The Japanese pros will go to Kenya or the US for altitude camps.
@@williampatrick8814 I saw that! NAU has its own altitude chamber too. Sometimes they set it to sea level to get in fast-paced treadmill runs.
I’ve got some big good news on this topic!
Honestly this would be a cool changeup from the regular nationals meet
I agree. The relays in a track meet are often the most fun to watch, so why not bring them to the roads too? 😀
@@RunningOtaku it def expands the focus from 4 or 5 guys to 7 and allows for great strategy!
Hi, great video! I think that if Japan wants to produce marathoners capable of beating the Kenyans (i.e. Kipchoge) and the Ethiopians (i.e., Bekele), it would be wise for them to have their elite talent race and develop at the middle distances, especially the 1500 M and also the 5000 m. Both Kipchoge and Bekele are sub 13 5K runners and have amazing running economy at the marathon most likely due to their fast times on the track. In my opinion, experience in the middle distances translates to faster - much faster - times at the longer distances. Japan's national 1500 m record is 3:37, which I think could be much improved, and no athlete from Japan has yet cracked 13 minutes for the 5K.
You might be right. Japanese junior high kids focus on the 3K, and then they start with 8K and longer for high school ekidens. Middle distance has never been a focus for the nation.
i am Japanese and HakoneEkiden fan
Very addictive video here
Thanks! I’m glad that you enjoyed the video. 😀
Mind. blown.
One of the Asian country who love running and marathon is Japan,,,🙂💖👍
It would be interesting to see the proportion of high school kids involved in track in Japan in comparison to the states. I bet there's a much larger talent pool.
You are probably right. Japan has slightly more marathon finishers than does the U.S. even though the population in Japan is 1/3rd the size.
Info on US vs. Japan marathon finishers: japanrunningnews.blogspot.com/2016/01/japan-surpasses-us-as-worlds-largest.html
It’s crazy how much things have changed in 2 years. Now Newbury park could probably beat Nagano by themselves.
You might be right. It looks like NP may have the best team in U.S. high school history!
And all these other teams now have sub 15 5k guys
Hi "Running Otaku" , I was watching all "Ekiden" last a couple of weeks with my son, who is cross country runner at high, he was so excited to format of "Ekiden" and wondered if we can do it here in US. more team effort, more fun for both runners and speculators, then less crowded. can we start planning to bring Ekiden to US ? hopefully we can make it happen around fall after Covid is under control:)
It’s a good thought. I think that major Ekiden race directors are making a mistake by not finding a partner (e.g. Flotrack) to stream it in America with Bret Larner providing the commentary. We do have some relay road races in the U.S. though. In fact one of the most popular is here in Oregon called the Hood To Coast. It’s about 200 miles and each runner runs 3 legs. Aoyama sent their B team to race it 2 years ago...and won!
@@RunningOtaku oh, I did not know that. I will contact Osako to find out key personnel at Oregon Project. Once I get a support from Nike, I think it will relatively easy to achieve this. Maybe we can invite one top high school from Japan , and top boys from USA high school!
@@Ryanashita One other cross-over: every year the Ivy League sends an “all star” team of runners to race in the Izumo Ekiden.
@@RunningOtaku found some info here. www.izumo-ekiden.jp/23/runner/21.html does not look like Ivy ..anyway interesting to see past experiment. (regarding "hood to coast" I found documentary at amazon prime, could not find any Aoyama info:(..
Where are the medals or high olympic finishes on the track tho?
It’s a good point. Ekiden and Marathons are much, much, much more popular than Track in Japan. The pros join corporate teams that want TV coverage, and that means Ekidens/Marathons, so there’s little emphasis on running Track.
What about scott faubs? Had he not broken 2:12 in 2018?
Nope, he ran 2:12:xx in both 2017 and 2018. Love him though- he ran locally while in college (University of Portland).
Could be that lifestyles affect their running. Don't most kids and teens walk to and from school regularly. Perhaps diet affects their performance. Cross-country running on low impact surfaces. Moderate weather, beautiful scenery and great support from others and regular routine when possible.
All kids from age 6 go to school on their own but, at least in the cities, generally go by public transportation...or an easy bike ride. Social aspects are clearly part of the formula along with crazy-hard training and inspiration from the nationally televised ekidens.
Frankly I don't think the 2nd adjustment was enough. The course at NXN is wayyyy slower than any track 5k, Nico Young ran over a minute faster in his time trial than he did at NXN (it was raining obviously but still). I'd think most top 10 finishers at NXN could probably drop a 14:30 track 5k or faster.
It’s definitely a good debate as it is pretty rare for American high schoolers to race a 5K on the track. I have no doubt scores of kids here could break 15 minutes, but the bigger point is that we choose not to for fear of injury or burning out. The Japanese high schoolers seem to have avoided those pitfalls. Perhaps we are being too cautious in our approach to high school training?
@@RunningOtaku I think for the most part, good American HS runners are expected to move up in distance as they get older, which is why we typically do better in the 400-1500 distances. The marathon is mostly run by people over the age of 30 here in the states, well past the prime time of the human body.
Also, in my experience, most HS coaches regard high mileage as the key to burnout, but not a lot of them consider that maybe their speed work is actually what causes it.
To top it all off, there seems to be a stigma about getting young children involved with certain sports, distance running being one of them. Just my 2¢, but I personally think it's because we spend so much time sitting over here. People in Japan practice the deep squat so often that their hips are way more mobile than ours, which is essential to running. Their population is just way more athletic like that.
@@heightdevil I grew up in a running community in the 1970’s/80’s where we’d have 5 or 10 kids (7-17 years old) running in our local (Palos Verdes) marathon each year. One of my buddies ran around 2:50 at age 12 on the hilly course. (Mary Decker ran ~ 3:12 as a 12 year old at PV circa 1971.) Another of my buddies set the US (world?) Junior record running 6:49 for a 50 miler on the track...he was 10 years old at the time. Both are still running or cycling competitively 45 years later. It’s clear that some kids can handle huge miles without adverse effects. The question is- what %?
@@RunningOtaku Indeed, our approach to running is a little too speedy IMO, if we want to get good at longer distances, mileage is gonna be the factor in that. I think the average life here in the US kind of prohibits that kind of volume though to be honest, unless we have a culture shift where running becomes a common way to spend downtime.
No. Not plausible comparisons.
NXN is not a particularly fast course, take a look at the running lane 5k for PR’s
I know- I live a few miles away and get to run on the course afterwards. Still, 15 seconds per mile is pretty generous for that course when it’s not too muddy.
How does one define happiness? Perhaps for the Japanese the camaraderie, running as one, pushing themselves is happiness. From the western perspective it seems militant but for them it’s just the norm. Imagine how they see the west.
I’m not sure I would call it happiness as there’s heavy pressure to fit in in Japan. Maybe a better word is “harmonious”.
Good information, but we don't really need to see the narrator talk to us so much.
Good comment, thanks. I have learned to include much more B-role because no one wants to see me talk. 😂
I run 10 km in 1 hour and find out my Japanese renter runs 42 km in a hour
And with all that depth, they still managed to not place anyone in the top 10 men or women in the last Olympic marathon. Kinda embarrassing. That's not even taking into account their continued lack of relevance on the track.
Kurt Wesselhoff Olympic results aren’t the best metric. For example the US had 2 in the top 6 for 2016...and were not that good. If you look at the 2018 men’s marathon rankings by performer, the top 22 are all of East African descent. The first non-East African is Japanese. The 2nd is Galen Rupp and then the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th are Japanese. Japan is clearly the 3rd best men’s marathon country in the world behind Kenya and Ethiopia. One question is why are Ethiopians and Kenyans so much better? Genetics, training methodology, drive/mental toughness, psychological edge due to past success, other?
@@RunningOtaku It's arguable what the best metric is for success, but sure the Japanese are much deeper at the marathon. Still, the question of top level success does matter. I'm sure the Japanese are desperate for some success at the Tokyo games. The question of East African dominance is an interesting one. The EAs and Japanese have a similar advantage over the US in average size. Small people make better marathoners. Having been to many US HS XC races, I can tell you not many of those kids are small enough to be successful at distances longer than 1500m. The lack of other good options for making a living in rural Africa also makes it a good choice to dedicate yourself for a few years of hard training to see if you might be successful.