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Why Badminton needs VAR asap
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2022
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7:46 notice how axelsen is the only one to actually acknowledge it and give up a point, although it’s not his duty to give a point what a marvellous show of sportsmanship… deserved world No. 1👏
Would he do the same if the points were like 19-20
there are many camera recording the game. He probably realized that and quick to correct the situation. Or he's a very understanding, selfless and honest person.
@@tinajsiha nah. He probably knows he is going to win anyway
@@ohgin12345 not that time period but now yeah ig, i mean even lin dan challenged against himself before
@@benedictteo9553 what are you talking about?
Definitely agree on this, it could be "as simple" as a slow motion camera system of 3 camera's tied together recording at 240fps that the players can call on as a part of the challenge system. Or call it the VAR system like soccer where you gesture a rectangle with your both hands.
its getting ridiculous: i live in poor ukraine: every other 10yo child here has a high def phone camera with 100fps slow mo playback feature, yet the billion dollar international badminton championships apparently can't afford them. It is time to remove the thorn that has been at the heart of badminton since its inception : human eyes cannot judge split second events.
What we are seeing now is a pure measure of how buracracy and stupid old-farts impede progress.
The day when its ruled humans don't make line or net fault calls will be one of the best in pro badminton history.
Just do it like volleyball where each team has two challenges per set, and if their challenge is correct they do not use a challenge. And since volleyball does it already, there should be no reason for Badminton not to do it
@@dasamont8274 challenges are just a stepping stone while computer refereeing become well installed and debugged, the goal should be 100% computer refereeing.
Forget about VAR , the umpire could have just reviewed the slowmo clip and made a decision. If the commentators, viewers can see it then why can't the umpire
Bwf : Because f*** logic that's why. 😏
errr...thats the exact same as VAR
VAR is literally Video Assisted, so yeah a replay in slowmo with some added camera angles to watch it many angles, even many times.
100% agree. Like what referees in the NBA do when they couldn't make an immediate call when a play happens too fast for the naked eye to see.
VAR is just football terms, y'all familiar with the name VAR bcos football is the most popular sport. Ironically you saying give umpire chance to watch slow mo footage, THAT EXACTLY WHAT VAR IS lol
For a sports like badminton
In Which sometimes it's beyond our capabilities to give the right judgement becuz of its speed
I think VAR is needed
Definitely If we Want Badminton to Evolve, Changes are required. VAR is immediate Necessity. If The BWF dosent Take This Steps now, That Clearly Shows That they don't have the intent to contribute towards the sport, they just want to enjoy their position.
Well said
The do have intentions but no money ...
@@phoenixcreed1112 That is a very bad excuse, They all have video Recording going on of the courts which commentators are getting and seeing the review as well, Why can't the Umpire see it ? It's just a Addition of new rule. Simple, But actually they are lazy that's the only reason.
@@Thatguyhere9 can be another reason as well
@@phoenixcreed1112 may we know the reason? since everyone else can see the recording but only the umpire can't see that
imagine these decisions happen in the final set of Olympics everybody will have mixed feelings. We need to stop that before by installing the VAR system
as opposed to if the olympic final was decided by an incorrect call?
@@TomMKW Not 'as opposed'. More like 'in agreement'
Some context, because IMO it's amazing how it turns out.
LCY vs Ginting (4:29) match in Hong Kong Open 2019 happens before HKV vs LCY (3:38) match in Toyota Thailand Open 2020.
I couldn't forgot LCY vs Ginting match because it's a match point on a final match, and I was really mad that we have no VAR.
Ginting has tendencies to do net battle like that, so it is difficult for the umpire to judge if they are inexperienced.
Now, fast forward to Toyota Thailand Open 2020, which is held in 2021 because of COVID-19.
Ginting lost against LCY in R16. By counting the tour points, it is unlikely that Ginting will qualify to the World Tour Final 2020.
However, the next day, in HKV vs LCY match, HKV ends up winning. It also coincidentally happens (mirroring LCY vs Ginting), that LCY was at disadvantage due to bad umpire call, in a critical point (rubber game 19-19). LCY ends up losing to HKV.
The plot twist was, by losing, LCY didn't qualify for World Tour Final, and causing Ginting to barely qualify as the last MS in World Tour Final 2020, which was held in 2021, also in Thailand.
3:56 "Two people saw the same thing." Well obviously two people were wrong xD
Even as a casual badminton player, I am definitely upset when there is a bad decision on me
I cannot imagine their feelings and mentality when this happens in professional stage, in a professional match
8:53 she did touch the net with her face // the new was swinging
4:23 - He definitely knew he touched the net which makes that roar even more moronic.
Later he says to his opponent something like "You know how Ginting feels now", referring to the Hong Kong open final where he celebrates after Ginting gets faulted for no reason. Bit petty imo. What happened in the Hong Kong open wasn't premeditated by the player, and anyone would celebrate winning the tournament even if it's on a false call.
@@bobmarley6306 He really said that??? Seriously?
Utterly insane comment. What a cheat.
@@tinajsiha I'm pretty sure he does, I think you can find the clip in the shuttle flash video on this same topic
@@adrenaline2002 Yeah it was wrong imo. Vittinghus is a nice guy I guess he just slipped here
No way Prannoy tried to take back that point like he knew it didn’t go over the cheater
true
He think his indian fellow will help him out kekw
.
@@alphad2174 they don't put the umpire and player from same country
Amazing video once again!
I've been thinking and telling my friends for years, about having an ability to challenge at the net and also for service faults. Only makes the game more fairer.
I cannot see any reasonable argument against it, don't understand why it isn't already a thing. 🤷
8:43 the umpire made a good call there, if you watch closely, her face did touch the net and that was the reason why the fault was called. If any part of your body or racket makes any contact with the net before the shuttle lands it is a fault.
I totally agree with this. Some wrong calls have costed some of the players not just a point but a game/match.
also their interest in the game
Although hard to watch, a fantastic collection. Good work guys. Let's all hope it gets the attention it clearly needs!
Not only if this sort of thing happen mostly in the most Crucial Moment
But understanding the score, from possibly tying the game and instead he got left behind by 2pt because of silly Umpire mistakes like this
I think its not about VAR, its about *"Expanding"* Player Challenges to either ask for Hawkeye assist, or VAR Slowmo Cam Assist:
1. For Tight Net shots/kill (Ginting, LCY, others)
2. Hitting Players body/racket before going Out (Jun Hui, Fu Haifeng)
3. Double hit Call (Pedersen)
The last two definitely touched the net
I'm sure Prannoy saw the replay on the big screen, he shouldn't be complaining. Anyway I agree strongly with this video, the current rules for how umpire decisions have to be made are really stupid.
Regarding 7:46 Viktor gave away 1 point to Chou, strictly speaking, shouldn't 2 points needs be given away in order to fix the umpire's error?
Anyways, good sportsmanship right there
ya bro atleast he did that. not like the umpire who is completely blind or sold i don't know. u can clearly see how upset he is 7:21
The secondlast one was actually a pretty amazing call by the umpire
ya, it looked like her face touched net.
the shuttle already been hit by chinese pair first befor her face touch the net so its legal
@@stevenhuang4674 "No part of your body or racket should touch the net at any point in the match. The foul will be called if your elbow, racket head, shin, or anything connected to you or the racket is caught touching the net. Again, resulting in the point being awarded to your opponent."
@@stevenhuang4674 huh? Can explain more?
@@stevenhuang4674 do you even badminton
A very good case for VAR. Even though it is ruining football because of the ridiculous way it is implemented I think it could work well in badminton. The calls are easier, quicker to check and fewer and so would not destroy the flow of the game.
Arrr reason why it is destroying the game is because the whole system was corrupted
@@ohgin12345 Delays ruining the flow of the game. Celebrating Goals that are then cancelled. Ruining it for me. Not worth it.
@@johnhickton2922 arrrrrr, if the goals are disallowed because of its illegality, why do you have issues with that?
What is your issue when var most of the time is to determine the legality of the goal
@@ohgin12345 It isn't always correct. Big VAR calls in the epl were wrong. And the game stops for minutes. Not worth it for me.
@@johnhickton2922 like I said. Because the whole system is corrupted. How can var decisions be wrong unless the person behind them are corrupted. Do you use your brain?
just curious, in the womens doubles at the end, her face touches the net right, which is a fault?
not sure but at 8:29 I think she actually did touch the net with her face.
I think that was a good call by the ref...
I was searching for such a comment ngl . If you really look closely she really touches the net with her face indeed
Imagine, if there's the VAR and then before the player ask for VAR, the umpire said "Two people saw the same thing, the shuttle touch the net." Then lo and behold, the racket indeed touched the net. Oh my god, the embarrassment. Oh well, it's better be embarrassed about it earlier than be proven guilty for being the reason a player lost the game. Thanks for the video! Love it!
Thank you for the video. Unlikely VAR will be installed soon as it will lead to additional time off court just as with Hawkeye. What is needed is a refinement to the dead set rules that the Umpire decision is final. In such situations, either a let be called into play or if there was instant replay on the big screen, the Umpire is allowed to reverse his/her wrong decision.
So just 2-3mins off is going to affect the game. And var is supposed to be used for controversial decisions. How many controversial decisions are there in a match. Maybe at most 3-4? 3.5 * 1.5 is around 5. So 5 mins is going to affect the game?
@@ohgin12345 The rules state that match is to be continuous. With the current Hawkeye system, players have only 2 challenges per set, as BWF anticipated correctly, abused are expected. You can see in some matches the shot is clearly out of court, but a challenge is called to buy more time for recovery.
@@ongkimchoon7383 I am sure tournament referee or umpire has common sense to realise whether or not their decision is controversial or not. And if the umpire mess up, the players should be able to make a complaint to bwf. So complicated? Or you are not that smart. Players should be allowed to tell the umpire that their decision is controversial and umpire has the discretion to review. If the empire does not use his discretion properly then player can make a complaint after that. So difficult? Or you are not that smart
Controversial decisions are only 2-3 at most in the game but it messed up the entire match. Use your brain a bit will you
@@ohgin12345 Wow calm down, no need to be an asshole about it, he's simply saying his thoughts.
@@ohgin12345 This is a social media platform discussing about VAR application for net controversial decision, one should refrain from making remarks about one's intelligence or biological entities, however work up you are. We are all educated, hence there is this social platform for discussion and name calling is unnecessary and rude. Now that we have some ground rules for our discussion and others to read and follow, let us look into it further.
Players are allowed to lodge an official complain ONLY after the match (players know it very well, their on-court antics, technically, in a form of time delay) the Umpire decision still stand during the game. Tournament referee cannot overrule the Umpire decision simply because he/she does not seat next to the Umpire during a match and the Umpire decision is final in a match. The game is to be continuous. May I suggest you apply to your region/country badminton association and go for the Umpire course for better understanding to the rules of the game. Thank You.
in the Lee Cheuk Yiu case 4:20 such similar situation happened in HK open between Lee and Ginting also in the end of the match, which was favor to Lee 4:37 . Yup the VaR is urgently needed, no player deserves the unpredictable bad situation like those clips :(
also BWF need to widen the rubber court. Yuta watanabe got slightly injured when the side of court rips and he lost in the next game
That last case for the Women's Double, she did touch the net with her face though.
Agreed, we have the technology. We should use it. The discussions need to be around implementing it in the best way.
imagine screaming like that because you hit your lil birdie with a tiny tennis racket. mind blowing
Good work by Axelsen👍
What can you expect when the umpire is wearing sunglasses.
it's not workable.
Umpire will have to let the game continue even as they spot a fault because the players will stop any attempt to carry on playing once a fault is raised.
Scenario: Player A hit the shuttle and the umpire raises a fault. Player B naturally doesn't attempt to retrieve the shuttle despite being well positioned to do so. VAR or VAUmpire determines Player A did not commit any fault. Well then who do you award this point to?
Every contentious point will stop play from continuing while VAR or VAUmpire reviews the footage. Badminton is vastly different from football as referees can allow ''advantage play on'' and correct any mistakes during a break in play or the lines man does not have to flag an offside immediately and VAR can rule out any offside goal after the goal is scored.
Agree, specially for service fault too high, need goal line technology to proof.
Badminton perlu menggunakan teknologi var supaya tidak ada yang dirugikan.
The umpire for Shi Yuqi match should have been fired. She clearly didn’t know the rule as she cited , ‘your racquet over the net’. Horrible. Many umpires were as blur as her.
Most so called professionals are not even interested in the sports. Gillian Clark for example said that Ng tze young potential was shown in the commonwealth games when his potential was already shown in earlier tournaments.
@@ohgin12345 What an utterly stupid comment
Hkv match with the HK player happens after the ginting incident, not before. Idk why the uploader show the hkv match first. And after the game, hkv cheekily said to HK player "karma for ginting buddy" lol
And the umpire need more carrots. That was good for eyes lol
Not only for net game but we also need VAR for double hit faults also . In Rio olympics women's double final , double hit by the danish was very clear but the japanese pair didn't got the point .
100% agree VAR is needed. Human eyes can only see so much, the net play is usually very tight.
i always think that you could hang a couple of bells on the net, so you know if the racket hits the net
Agree. Just 1 challenge for VAR for every match is enough because case like this rarely happens
Rather have it without limit. The cases are rare as you said, so why limit it? Even if rare, it could happen twice in the same set.
For a wrong judgement, not only you lose a point but the opponent gets one
Lee C Y: "it's only ok if it happens to my opponent! GRRRR!!!"
that ginting incident vs Lee was totally unacceptable, either Lee vs Vittinghus. They must be blind.
I was today years old I learned that badminton is the only sport in its category that doesn't use HawkEye and challenge system
its so weird that the tv show peoples have a slow motion camera but the umpire does not ;-;
Also needed in the service situation, the service umpire is not always accurate.
Fully agree, but 8:30 she diffidently touched the net, dragged her face up it, wasn't the racket that touched it tho.
I agree with you, it definitely need over the injustice and misunderstanding of the umpire...
Yes. I am surprised it is not. This a game of speed in milliseconds and to not have VAR is insane. Allow two per team for the whole game
She acctually touched the net with her face at 8:40. Thats what the ref is calling and thats why the call was late. Good referee! I dont understand why the players are complaning...
8:38 she did touch the net tho 😂
The idea is fine, I agree as it's so difficult for umpires to judge racket over net etc. Still, they should not call a fault unless they are sure. For me, all these were umpire mistakes (nobody is interested in all the times the umpire was right) . We must remember that perhaps less than 5% of umpired matches have TV with possibility of replays - so in addition, extra training for umpires is needed to improve in thus area for the other 95% of matches
On the contrary, i reckon umpire can call any faults they deemed fit. But, if the high frame rate camera proves otherwise, then the call should be reversed and restored.
How is this even a debate, tennis has had hawkeye for years now and the sport has 100% benefited from it
8:38 You can clearly see the net move so in this case the umpire was spot on calling a fault.
This is ridiculous that TV broadcast can do it, meaning the audience at home can see the truth but the judges have to rely on their limited eye sights. Utterly ridiculous.
Can do what they do in tennis and just have a sensor where if there's contact the sensor will beep
2:24 we all know by common sense that if the racket would have touched the net there would have been waves all over the net but the net was completely stable
Those calls at game point and match point, that is insane!
That's the beauty of badminton. Thats the beauty of the games. Let it be like that. Disagree with VAR.
yeah we need it, especially on the crucial point.
I too play badminton, I know the feeling...
its definitely very painful when u practice for months and just loose the game by a single wrong decision...
Badminton need to be Evolve to new Technology😔😔
Nice, useful, to-the-point videos as always
A Great Video by Shuttle Flash , this should be seen by BWF .
I won't complain about umpire , its easy for us after to say they were wrong . But on long match and fast exchange at net it's hard to see or clearly make the sequence back in your mind without seing it.Clearly if there is a TV court , umpire make a 1rst call then ask service judge umpire then could call a review to see if he was wrong
hence we need the VAR to ease the umpires' decision making and help them carry less sin. heheheh
The fact is most of them have obvious ego problems
as much as it part of being a top athlete . Youll never be ready for an injustice on court. You'll feel robbed then you start to be angry and it will pump you up in a good/bad way. You might force unforced errors after that. Even if you say :" i reset my mind , and play " if you start loosing 1 or 2 points then it will be on your nerves.
Remember Young lin dan when he used to talk after umpire and then rush point, smashing like crazy hell . or even when LCW beats him when he was leading 20-8 in third. (actually this defeat makes lin dan the goat, after that he became unbeatable)
@@Ey3shi3ldtv most of the time the effects is negative
I seldom see players actually play better when they lose a point because of a net call. Most of the time, the opponent will most likely win the next few points
@@ohgin12345 i was mid RAnk , in my league , i end up in interclubs playing someone who was "top rank" in my region. It was self umpiring. I remember in money time i was winning like 17-14 and i won a point he said it was out , i said no then my team behind said Its obviously in not even close the line . So i said no im sure o that i dont want to replay it. Then i won this point i lost the next one then i won one and he said same thing. i was like "are you crazy or what ? " then i serve long (flick serve) end up on line and he said out . and I was like DUDE you want to win like that? So he said okay lets call a the main umpire ". Main umpire came he said "We redo the point " . I end up loosing the game despite i was leading 19-16 . I said at the end dont ask me for a clap you are a p**** of garbage. it was my only time in badminton in 15 y i did something bad like that.
But on this point i was forcing my smash onto his body ended upt to go outside 2 times.
The whole game i was chill even in 2nd when it was close (i won the first) he said it was out i believed him despite i thought it was in . so when i loose 2nd i start to say " i wont let any point float again"
Can't blame the ump on that second one - completely fooled me, lol
A lot of these are just really bad misses by the ump though.
many umpires are blind anyway gotta get their eyes checked
can u explain what is var?
BWF should look at this. Somehow, BWF also humiliates the umpires, because they also watch the replay of the decision they made, and if it’s possible they also want to overrule the decision but they can not bcs the rules. Poor for the players and the umpires, shame on you BWF. This is not the first or second time happened, they need to evolve
5:08
you can see the pain in ginting's face
So this doesn't apply in the same way, but people don't say that snooker needs VAR for one big reason and that's that players have integrity. They routinely call fouls on themselves, even if it means they will almost certainly be knocked out of a tournament. And because they do this, when a players says they didn't foul, their opponent believes them. Probably most issues here could be fixed by players having a bit of integrity.
We could call it VAR but nothing new is needed. Just allow the umpire to overrule his initial call upon watching the replay.
This is what happen when umpire is watching a match, not judging the match
how hard was it for the umpire to watch the replay if there's any dispute? you can't do that in the past because we don't have the equipment, but this is 2022 already.
I remember watching vittinghus vs lee. Was so pissed off, and the gall to celebrate that point. He had to act the part to be believable of course.
polii did touch the net though..
Yea.. Herbody touched the net
Those incidents are very rare, so we should definitely use VAR because it wouldn't even interrupt the flow of the game much at all.
Funny how people go and criticize Axelsen for 'only' giving CTC 1 point after an obvious mistake, meanwhile he's the ONLY player in the vid to do anything at all and at the same time Prannoy tried to get back the point he only got awarded through umpire error and Polii protests the fault call despite the video showing how she touched the net with her face...gotta love the double standards :D
Some people are playing badminton. Some people are playing the officials.
On 6:21 isn’t it a faulty serve? Is his racket not too high? Top of the racket has to be under the lowest rib right? I know that’s not what the umpire called but I’m genuinely asking if that’s allowed
7:45 Axelsen - bravo act of a real man.
Wonder whether those umpire ever played badmintom before. How can they call fault when net doesn't move or swing at all.
That's insane, the umpire in the first clip doesn't even know the rules...
One additional thing - if course the umpires will look at their matches on CZcams and realize they made a mistake. May not help the past match, but perhaps future matches.
The situation be like: ‘we even have a var for the net , why not set it in the line judge’ , and var would be limited in the usage . The schedule of the game also would be slower . If put it into the game will be troublesome, the best choice may be do nothing.
The fastest racket sport in the world is judged only by the human eye. LOL.
Some cases do need a VAR/ more sophisticated technology; whatever its called. But some cases can just simply refer to the video replay, like in Yu Qi's net shot case, or Gideon's service challenge if you guys remember - it was just the rules (?) that didnt allow players to use the video replay for the challenge. I mean, whats the point of having a video replay, if it cant change a wrong decision? Umpire is only human after all.
So I think badminton needs a better umpiring, a whole re-check to the rules/challenge itself (+ ADJUST where necessary), as well as the use of latest technology.
Badminton not only need VAR but also reliable umpire. A lot of bwf umpire are disgrace to badminton.
Agreed
Do umpires not know that full swings like TTY’s and Ueda’s is going to make the net move a lot? This is not even that hard to tell
What we need is to replace the umpires with robotic umpires uupppsss 🤭
The umpire in 2015 surdiman 5:19 and Axelsen one 6:33 is the same umpire, right?
4:23 dirty to win the game still celebrate
I'm confused as to how the commentators can see that Axelsen's shot was a fault but the refs can't - do they not have any review system at all?
100% agree. This game needs to evolve. ASAP.
It's funny how Lee Y is denied a point on a crucial stage and loses the game, and then favoured in the next slide.
What goes around comes around
Obviously some umpires got carried away and distracted by the game. Errors are made here and there and if there is a better solutions just to reconfirm the umpires judgements then it should be employed by all means. Not many players are like Axelson, that's why he's the best. But it can be a decisive call sometime especially when the game is tight. Therefore VAR should better be employed.
We understand that the racket & shuttle speed is too fast to be seen especially at the net. Not to blame the umpire for an honest mistake. But, we do have the technology now with the camera replay. So why not use it for the benefit of everyone.
slo mo video replay is not expensive. Slo mo replay resolve uncertainty alot quicker than hawkeye in line judging. No excuse for not using VAR to resolve bad net call.
BWF really needs to step up in many areas in order to uphold fairness in the game. One area that I can think of is the current 1.15 meter service height. There is no indication as to how high that line is during the game. Service judge is the only person who can see where that line is, but the players, the umpire, and the spectators all have no clue. Why don't BWF at least draw a line on the net to indicate this line? Better still, use some laser leveling projection device during the serve so that everyone can see where that line is, and provide some reference for the challenging system in case players got called for serve violation. Currently players cannot challenge for serve violation and net fault calls, which is stupid because the technology for these challenges are already available.