Can You Beat Grandmasters With Silver League Micro?
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
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This is the single best idea in CZcams history. the teamwork with Pro and Silver is such a fun idea and I hope this does well and you make more of this.
It’d be cool to see him coach a teammate like this and see the before and after
When you lose with a silver teammate you change it for a gold one..
It was purely amazing to be part of the challenge! (I'm the diamond player) thank you for the invitation!
Also, if you're wandering why your teammate was a bit afk in terms of base defense in the first couples of minutes, it's because he was busy microing ravens in my base ;)
Silver league Terran tried. Congrats on beating GM macro 😊
@@Fimbu1vetrsilver league but definitely not silver league micro
lol
@@ZerglingLover Loll, but considering silver is ~ the bottom 73-96% of ladder, I wouldn't be surprised if Ragnarok's micro is silver too. I watched a bronze 1 toss stream a few times, and they insisted on a moving specific targets every time, including pylons during a fight (like this player did a few times), so their army did nothing most of the time.
@@Fimbu1vetr but the other guys did significantly better? maybe it’s just because ragnarok wanted to go with a unit comp that was way too complex for him.
Lol Marc getting stressed out for once is a vibe I didn't know i needed. That frustrated 'I'm gunna make a spine if he doesen't scout the opponent's base' had me laughing so hard. Amazing content as always on this channel!
Finger on the build trigger
I love how Marc was getting more stressed doing this than he gets playing his own games when hes macroing and microing while also delivering S tier commentary.
Seeing Marc tortured by 4 idle queens while reapers are reaping his drones.. priceless! :D
The best part is to see you suffer Marc, sorry to say - but this is so funny, really great stuff :-D
Big thx and respect to all the brave players to go on stream here!!
"I never want you to control my drones again!" lmao. This is peak content right here.
Hahah well played to all parties involved. Marc almost writing SIEGE THEM at 32:48 lol I haven't laughed this much in a long time haha
Yeah, micro is definitely more representative of one's ranking. From personal experience, whenever there's a fight or an attack coming, it's the macro that suffers while micro takes my full attention.
This was a great watch, even if that last game was a bit painful. Turns out not even the best macro in the world can help you if you just move your units through the enemy army to kill one unit in the back.
As for other challenges of this type: you had one where you fought 6 bronze/silver players. You could maybe do a twist on that where you allow one master/GM player on the same team with 2/3/4/5 silver/bronze players, where the master/GM player can only advise his teammates on what to build/where to focus their attention, and overall coordinate them.
I'm thinking of a twist where the GM opponent is allowed to only do economy (i.e. build workers, supply and CCs, no attacking or upgrading/abilities or static defenses or queens allowed) and they have like 3 bronze/silver players whom they can send money to and tell what to do (the bronze/silver players can do whatever they want, but they should also remember to defend the GM)
I HIGHLY look forward to these featured archon modes. Makes me want to play SC2 again.
What is the difference with archon mode? I am new to SC2
@@FloridaManYT Archon mode: you and a buddy control a shared unit together. Regular mode: you and a buddy have independent control your own separate units.
That killing own stalker got me haha. This was super interesting actually, loved this
SMH I can't believe your teammate not sieging the tanks
(I have never played this game, have never sieged a tank in my life)
Haha, I love these videos where you play with/against fans like this! Hope you keep them coming!
Disclaimer: I've never played any SC2. I just watch a lot of uThermal on my TV.
Great challenge. Super entertaining. Plenty of room for improvement!
I think maybe Marc just needs to practice this particular sort of challenge a bit more, as silly as that sounds. He's beat insane challenges using nothing but "bad units". This is no different. Except that the "bad unit" is a human teammate. Adjustments will obviously need to be made. Perhaps he's still macro-ing like a guy that knows he has great micro to fall back on. I think (perhaps naively) he should have built way more fixed base defenses, not because that's an efficient use of resources, but because it's the only defense that he could count on, and it was, arguably, his job. (Fixed defense counts as "macro", right?) Maybe even build layered (forward-ish) defenses. And communicate more. Much more. Not strategy, not advice, but things like: "8 zerglings coming right up", or, "I'm rallying 6 tanks to this location for now" or ask what units the silver actually wanted as you got further into the games. Don't make the silver type. You type. He is busy and panicking.
I'm guessing that in some ways the silver's micro was actually disadvantaged by having Marc playing half his game. Sure, the macro was amazing, but the silver couldn't build the units he wanted, couldn't readily adapt to using unfamiliar units, probably didn't know what units were actually building, couldn't quickly find the units Marc had actually built, and he didn't have the spare APM to ask questions. I think Marc could have used some of his idle APM to help the silver out. Not to help the silver be better than normal, but to avoid confusing the silver even more. And yes, maybe even build more units that "don't need micro". (Perhaps that's all part of a different challenge from this one.)
None of that would have helped with the perpetually un-sieged siege tanks however. I hope Marc doesn't develop an ulcer! Again, great and thought provoking content.
Even tho the silver player wanted marine, medivac, tank, that's hard for a silver player to micro. I think they mightve won with something like hellbat/Thor/maybe some cyclones cuz it's an a move comp
Your advices are on point. I'm really surprised that you have never played SC2!
Silver Guy had a lot of disadvantages as you mentioned. They could have used push-to-talk communication. However, SC2 is broadly about extinguishing fires on your base and starting fires on opponents. Silver guys can't multitask (yet), that's why they are silver. So if a Diamond, sends 3 medivacs to 3 locations, be sure 2 of them will shoot forever uncontested :D
I just wanna say, I've been watching you since the start, and I have loved all of your series, garnered many favorites, but this is so fresh! I am absolutely loving this team content, this is like Uthermal casting a game, while playing it and it is so wholesome how he enjoys the content.
Oh, and one more thing: what is very important in archon mode is teamwork. For example if I was silver league player in the last game I would be very confused. First I would see that Thermy is rallying all units to the units that I already have, I would think: great that means I don't have to look for new units. But then after a while Thermy started rally them to a places he wanted them to be, and I would probably not notice them as well. After all lower league players have problems with spotting units. It's even harder to spot your own units on minimap if you don't know they were there. Overall I think huge part of last defeat was miscommunication between team-mates.
That and zero communication about how should be scanning.
If you were the silver league in the last match I'd say uninstall. How are those tanks not sieged. It's their one job...
I think the limited communication is part of the challenge. Notice how he acted like he was bending the rules when pinging for the guy.
@@justincullen229Why uninstall? Are SC2 players, obliged to play over a certain level? Aside from pro-gamers, people play games for fun, and you don't even need to win to have fun (look at Thermy for example). For me it looks like you have some unhealthy perfectionistic tendencies, but I don;t know you in person so what do I know.
@@Alejandro-fm5wo Really? I though Thermy was just going with the challenge and tried to think about the rules when he needed them. Isn't that, what usually happens when he tries things for the first time?
Marc having an anxiety attack watching the unsieged tanks head towards the opponents' army lololol
OMG I laughed when that first guy has killed his own stalker, but later I just blew up when he killed his own battery at 11:54 xD
That was a wee bit painful and a big bit funny to watch :) This is a great idea. More please.
Who else wants to see a mini tournament with streamers and their metal league apprentices ?
Maybe with uThermal, PiG, MaNa, Winter, Harstem, and Lowko?
Maybe have a practice day first, to get to know your apprentice?
😂😂 the vibes are unmatched!! I'm having a great time watching you have a great time just watching what's going on hahah
35 seconds in and I'm already feeling the pain
This is a rather funny conclusion given that so many SC2 improvement videos talk about focusing on macro to improve (which I still think is true) but you made it way further when you were microing and a silver was macroing.
Yes, I was struck by that as well. Apparently metal league macros better than the all-wise advice-givers think, but micros worse! (I was stuck at Gold 1 for 9 months before realizing this myself, abandoning attempts to fix the problem with pure macro, and *teaching myself not to run up ramps into sieged tanks*. Made a world of difference. D3 now.)
feel bad for your blood pressure but man. that was GOOD. cheers Marc
I really love these micro/macro mix ups. Please do more!
You typically have great ideas for making SC2 even more fun but this series is excellent! Seeing the difference in skill levels in an ally format makes it more like a coaching experience. The mistakes and bum strats you avoid but a newer player might try are on display for you to pick out and warn against. But my favorite thing is your competitive but kind commentary.
I feel like communication with your teammate should definitely be allowed. but bare minimum communication is a lot funnier!
I loved this series.
In a lot of ways, this was more informative and "teaching" than just watching you play, as you get to see the mistakes an inexperienced player will make and how they affect the outcome real-time.
Please do more like this!
I love this series. I think you could probably retry this challenge but significantly change your own play style - build more static defenses and depend on your macro to overcome the "wasted money" needed to build those. That way you need to depend on silver micro a lot less for base defense
Agree! In the GM micro with silver macro games, the silver was going for units that had a lot of micro potential on purpose and not relying on static defenses, but in these games he was employing the same strategy and relying on the silver players micro ability. Doesn't really make any sense if the goal is to win. I think it might be an issue of him not being able to see things from a silver perspective where even something like a siege tank can be very daunting to use as part of an army and not just setting them up in your base and forgetting about them.
Like saying no to producing carriers because they have low micro... that's kind of the point right?? Build bases and produce a braindead army that could potentially overwhelm a GM even though a silver player is commanding them.
33:16 dude I am laughing for 20 seconds now my tears are falling at your reaction "DUDE SIEGE THEM, DUDE!!" hahah, maaaan this series was incredible. Thanks Uthermal for being you, most wholesome guy on youtube!
This is hy far the best idea youve had for a series yet, being able to just sit back between macro cycles and watch/commentate is great
06:52 he caught a terran spy, nice catch!!!!❤
Me being friends with your teammate i can tell you he is definitely Bronze League. ;)
As a platinum, I tend to overestimate my units in fights and just throw my armies away on accident, so very impressive micro from this silver player
his micro was so bad that I had to stop watching
My stress level increased watching this lol I love it
What a Trainwreck of an episode
6:50 I haven't seen Marc that speechless in a while 💀
When marc is giving you advice ending with "my friend", then you know he that he is completely losing it. :D
Every SC2 beginner guide: macro > micro!
uThermal microing: beats GM
uThermal macroing: loses in round 2
You guys have been lying to me!
Freezing when stuff is happening even happens to noobs in dota2. Having 300 apm microing one unit thus always moving and always knowing whats happening everywhere on the map is what we high mmr people do.
Really appreciate the volunteers who played these games. Super entertaining!
I respect the challenge, but you had it right the first time. Weaker player-Macro....Stronger player-Micro
Make it so, silver player only controls units and the pro just does the building, and either player can do all of the other stuff; rallying, scans, etc.
dude macro video was entertaining to watch where this video is nerve-wrecking to watch, I was shouting at my screen for the last 15 minutes
Marc and Simp. I;m dying from my sides bursting like a baneling.
I love this concept. I play Warhammer40K and have experiemented with Rookie + Expert team games but this with the Expert on Macro and the Rookie on micro is an amazing parsing of the SC2 game. Marc you will have to keep a cool washclothe for your forehead when playing these games hahahah watching you, watch base defence is hillarious. :)
honestly, one of the best ideas you've had in a WHILE, in my humble opinion. (also loved bongcloud to gm). archon play has some awesome possiblities, not many other streamers do it. well done friend.
This was really fun to watch. All the other challenges were too, but in this one i found myself playing, as im also only gold league and do the same mistakes as Marcs allies here... So, a good lesson learned! Thx for all the good content, keep going, Marc!!!
Telling uThermal to not micro is a more effective torture method than waterboarding
That was sooo fun! Listening to Marc as the micro failed was hilarious
I almost swallowed my tongue when that terran player fired his tanks away from the roaches at point blank range. I guess we'll never know what they shot at.
Thanks for the game Marc! I enjoyed playing with you, even tho I got destroyed) GGWP
As a long time bronze player who became silver when bronze went from bottom 20% to bottom 4%, this was still painful to watch. Below master, F2 is better than trying to micro. Given high GM macro, F2 should take to about master 1. Zerg has to split units for scouting, but you can assign eggs to battlegroup as Zerg, or hot key 80% of units into one group. Entertaining as heck.
Definitely enjoyable. Kudos to all micro players as well! I definitely know the situation of "if only I had one more unit..." you get during a fight, but I think we have to acknowledge that wishing for units and having them are two different things.
My feeling is that some guys tiltted a bit, especially the last one. I have not played sc for a long time, but I think that everyone would place the first tanks as sieged units, in devensive positions around their base and then attack. This format, understandably in a way, forced him to go and attack with the huge amount of units he had, instead of building things up like he would probably normally do. Turteling for example never seemed an option, although it would have been a viable one that many professional players execute.
I guess you don't want to do that on a stream with an insane amount of units...
Good try and definitely an enjoyable video. I think the other formula: Silver macro and GM micro is more to my liking. It also puts less pressure on the silvers to "perform", whatever they would think that is. That is another factor that Marc, as a seasoned streamer, does not have to struggle with :D
Uthermal vs 10 man archon xD
Silver leaguers are easily thrown off so they stay in their lane. Giving him ravens was a huge curveball, asking him to get an education while performing during a challenge. I love the idea of asking what he likes to play with, and then mass producing those units. Maybe next time you pump out the units he can play with: marines, medivacs, tanks and marauders.
Your teammate was so terrified to attack, lol. He'd be like sitting there with 125 supply of roach ravager staring down two tanks and ten marines. Impossible to lose the fight, but still waiting for some reason
constantly suiciding units is all too real
uthermal is less stressed out playing ghosts only against a high level pro in a tournament for real money than he was in that tvt
That was quite a funny video, more entertaining than the one where you were in charge of the micro! GG
Honestly, this kind proves the "just focus on makro and ignore everything else" mantra wrong. Yes a diamond player can beat plat with just roaches or whatever, but that's also we make the correct decisions on where to scout where to attack what fights you can take when to build drones. That's not just having more units
marc and simp killed me haha
I love that, "HAHA, Get Fricked."
showcasing the importance of attack moving really well at the end there
7:07 That's adorable. hahah
Crazy cool. Wonder how far a noob's like me can go with uThermal as the backbone. Fun idea keep it up!
now we need a revamp of the silver macro and micro archon vids but with a voice call so you can actually communicate
God, I laughed a lot at this video , very good 😂. I m sorry for the silver teammate, he just needs some theory, he did what he could 😄
That was super fun and educational! The last game could’ve been better with some extra macro: upgrades and medivacs 😆
The guy asked to play marine tank too 😂😂😂
Uthermals macro slipped hard. Like really hard Over 1100 minerals and almost 500 gas in the bank. At 08:35
I loooove how you pretend that any protoss unit needs to be microed xD
This is brilliant. We need more of this please.
I think it would be a good idea to run back the protoss and zerg against diamond.
I definitely want to see more of these.
I think it's actually much harder to micro Terran than other races. I'm no good at all, so this is strictly from my perspective, but even though there's some "set it and forget it" mechanics to Terran units, each unit type is more specialized than other races' units, imo. If you don't use the right units at the right time in the right way, it's _bad_. Still, a good start would be to siege your siege tanks while defending. :P
Marc trusted when his player asked for tanks he'd use the tanks correctly. If instead he'd just given him MMM the player could have stim-A-moved to victory. Only having to micro the medivacs. Instead he suicided all the medivacs into the enemy and didn't siege tanks lol.
I'm a Starcraft 1 player. There is a saying: No matter how good your micro is, 2 zealot always beat 1 zealot, so during training, I always focus more on macroing and just A move my units most of the time.
This series proves that things have changed in Starcraft 2.
I disagree. In most of the fights, the silver player would have done better pressing f2 and A-moving with a deathball. It turns into a lanchester square law fight where numbers matter.
The exception is the seige tank stuff at the end, which would have been a fatal mismicro in SC1 as well.
Macro is the most important and the easiest to do well. Micro is less important but is dramatically more difficult. What makes a low elo player is balancing their APM and understanding what they should be doing and when.
Those rallies and Un-sieges in that 3rd game were painful to watch!
Marc's pain when the terran match came was real. Probably should have did the terran match earlier. XD
I like the rank 1 GM flex at the start lol
Lol i love these archon plays !!! Hilarious great content.
give disruptors to the guy. Love seeing non-pros doing disruptor play.
Ive been waiting for this one. I have a backlog of uthermal videos but for this i skipped ahead
You could have tried to lift your buildings to save them at the end since you are macro guy. Extremely fun to watch and hope you do more like this.
I have not even started watching this yet. The answer to this is "no". I could be wrong, and I am taking a chance here. But if I had to bet money, the answer is no:)
I would really love to try either version of these types of games, looks so fun :D plus I'm sure I could learn a lot from it..
I can see the aging of marc accelerating with every one of these videos XD
More of this! This is so funny to watch 😂
this sounds so fun as the silver player
marc and simp. name a more iconic duo
It is official, micro is harder and more impactful than macro. :^)
XD thanks for the quality content uThermal
I'm a diamond protoss and these running around unsieged tanks hurt my brain so much, my brain starts to melt.
I hope the silver terran watches this and learns from his mistakes. The best I did personally was rank 1 silver 1v1 and gold in 2v2 back in 2011 (WoL) but all the move commands and targeting through armies and not sieging was pretty painful for me to watch as well. I think I am the opposite though. I was always good at microing units but tragic at macro. Though to be fair it's been so long since I've played the ladder that I am probably below bronze level at this point myself.
Queens are a production unit. They should be a part of macro
That silver player at the end was painful to watch.
It was fun to see Marcs terran heart die inside in the last game. ;)
I am in the first game and I love it! I have a lot of fun with this colab
More, more! Haha, can silver xyz beat grandmaster videos are awesome. Kudos to the silver players, they did a good job trying to keep up!
I'd like to see what the highest rank opponent you can beat doing this with each race, instead of switching races after a win.