What Is Sanding Sealer?
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- čas přidán 26. 08. 2024
- The name says it all, but do you really know what sanding sealer is and why luthiers use it as part of their guitar finishing process? If you would like to support the Highline Guitars CZcams channel and get something in return, visit www.eguitarplan...
Finally, after 20 years of trying to I understand sanding sealer, I think I finally get it. Thank you. 😊
Glad I could help!
Thank you for this. Best explanation I have seen of this. I work at a woodworking store and get a lot of questions about finish. This is a subject I have never felt completely comfortable with, now I feel like I can help the customers better.
Awesome, thank you!
Thank you so much for this explanation. I have been asking woodturners and woodworkers these questions for YEARS and the best I got was "it stabilises the wood" ! Now I understand.😃
I was confused about this stuff and you really explained it well in this video and it's uses ( and non uses ). Thanks for doing this.
I used the PRS method and it worked out fantastic for my guitar. SSFF. Stain, Sanding sealer, Filler (Grain) Finish.
whats SSFF?
Chris
I like the way you answer the questions that most of us are too afraid to ask for fear of sounding dumb😬
I used your hand rubbed oil finish method on my, Ash topped, kit built LP and just love the end result.
Best explanation I’ve heard.
Thanks so much for passing on so much knowledge. Watch all your CZcams posts. Saved me a lot of money
Never thought of using a sanding sealer for pre-treating before the stain. I've used both a commercial pre-stain treatment or my own concoction of shellac or a very diluted clear oil-based finish.
@highlineguitars man I don’t know if I’ve ever actually commented on a video, but this was awesome because I had been getting so confused with the purpose of this! Thanks!
Wow, thanks!
Thank you, I think this was the clearest (pun intended) explanation of sanding sealer that I've seen!
I've seen a video from prs, where they use a very thin coat of sanding sealer on their guitar backs and necks before they use sanding sealer, to stop coloured grain fill from staining the body, buy still allow the grain to pop
Thanks for this. Just the right degree of detail as usual.
Best channel for guitar building 🥳🙂
I really like your teaching on finishing. Reminds me of the late great Charles Neil.
Best explanation I have found. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
As always, very informative!
Hi Chris, just as awesome and informative as always, thank you
Always love your videos, but the loud opening riff never fails to knock me back in my chair.
That’s intentional.
@@HighlineGuitars I often watch late at night and I end up diving for the 'off' button so it doesn't wake up my family.
Otherwise, I love your videos.
Amazing video
VERY informative! Thank you!!!
Thank you so much, I might be at work soon again, when things are alright I'll buy a plan you well earned that!
But I will steal, for merely a build for myself, your fret slot idea haha
Another very informative video, thank you.
Great explanation- thank you!
You're very welcome!
Well, I used Solarez Wood Filler today. I'm painting the guitar which has an alder Strat body a Pearlized white color by Createx paint, which I think is water based. I put on two coasts and sanded them back to a smooth finish using 400 grit sandpaper. So, is the next step to use the sanding sealer? I ordered the Crystalac clear amber toned sanding sealer. And if I do apply the sanding sealer, do I still need a primer for the paint? I'm pretty sure it will stick to the Crystalac, won't it? I've already got the Solarez Clear Coat "I Can't Believe It's Not Lacquer". Hope I'm doing this right.
Great video and some great info.
Thanks Chris great tips as always !
LACQUER=SANDING SEALER. Same thing, for all practical purposes. Take half lacquer and mix it with half lacquer thinner and you'll have the basic formula used in the Far East. You can use it as a primer/wood conditioner or as a topcoat or for touch ups. You can put it on with either brush or cotton rag or spray gun, and you can put on as many layers as you like. Let dry between coats and lightly sand as deemed necessary.
Thank you! I have a swamp ash body and trolling CZcams to understand the best approach. This was super helpful!
Thanks ❤
Hi can I use lacquer on a top coat after sanding sealer thx
Yes you can.
Good explanation 👏 👍 👌
I didnt catch the whole video but if your using solarez using there sanding sealer for adhesion is another reason
Good talk. I'm subbing fella.
Thanks for the sub!
What’s the difference between sanding sealer and vinyl sealer? I used sanding sealer on a fender teli style kit that I used stain on. But I’m using a vinyl sealer on an offset kit I’m doing now. This one I’m rattle can spray painting.
Vinyl sealer is a sanding sealer.
Hi! Good morning! God bless you! Sand and seal could be sanded between coats? I'm working on a guitar bass fretboard. What you recommend me? Apply coats then sand or sand between coats? Thanks!
Hey do you know of any guitar neck built of one piece from a branch that split up in a 10 degree angle? because that would be the perfect solution to the scarf joint short grain issue, right, that would be like the strongest headstock ever
That’s how they used to lay the keel of wooden ships.
Currently refurbishing a spruce top, mahogany back and sides acoustic guitar. Have already sanded the top and back and didn't like the yellow color of the spruce top so I'm planning on staining it black before applying gloss topcoat. Problem is, there's some uneven spots, i might have sanded through what seems to me is sanding sealer (not sure) which served as primer. Problem is that I'm really not sure if that's sanding sealer but the parts that are still covered by it are brighter yellow and the spots I've oversanded are pale yellow. What do you think? Thanks
Do you fill the pores with grain filler before applying the sand sealer (ash guitar body). Thanks
You can. It depends on the look you’re after.
I'm curious, when working with highly figured woods, as you avoid sanding sealer, do you do any other process on the raw wood ahead of applying the dye stain, or do you apply stain to raw wood then a sanding sealer? Thanks, long enjoyed your channel.
Wipe the wood with a damp cloth. After it dries, sand off the rough grain with 320-400 grit.
@@HighlineGuitars Ok, so just raising the grain, then wipe on the stain. Cheers.
Do you put grain filler on figured wood (flame/quilted)?
Thank you for the video. What is the difference between grain filler and sanding sealer? I have heard that are both used to tame end grain from soaking up the dyes. When do you choose which?
Grain filler has the viscosity of pancake batter while sanding sealer is almost as thin as water. I use sanding sealer to help my dye and stain absorb evenly into the wood as well as to provide a barrier for when I apply my clear topcoats. I use grain filler to plug the deep grain and pores found on certain woods like Ash and Mahogany so my topcoats won't sink into them.
@@HighlineGuitars Thank you
Would grain filler precede sanding sealer and do you sand between coats of sanding sealer? I am trying to understand the two and sequence. Thanks! Great help as always.
czcams.com/video/CSTh66dLXIQ/video.html
Great video! Can you do a video of what do you do if you sand through like on the edges?
If I ever sand through a finish, I will definitely shoot a video. However, I haven't done that in years so it may never come about.
Thanks for this Chris. When you use ICBINL finishes, what sanding sealer do you use? (Can't read the bottle) Also, Do you fill and sand/seal the backs and sides before you stain the top for burst finishes? Cheers, sh
@@luthierwnc I use ICBINL sealer.
@@HighlineGuitars so the same stuff as the grain filler?
@@luthierwnc yes
Hey Chris, great video! What about a video on the difference between pore filler and sanding sealer and if it a good practice to use both. In Mexico we have a "high solids nitrocellulose lacquer" does that works as a sealer?
Like this one? czcams.com/video/CSTh66dLXIQ/video.html
I don't use nitrocellulose, so I can't speak to using a high solids version except to say sanding sealers don't work the same way.
@@HighlineGuitars Awesome, thank you!!
What is it that most general companies use to make a shell like coating over the guitar, I have taken a few guitars and sanded them down, they seem to always have a hard natural wood colored shell before meeting the wood, also what is the normal finish used as a solid protector? I've used polyurethane and it seems to still scrape and scratch fairly easily, also seems to cloud up when sanded or rubbed, my question is "what do they use?" 😫
Thanks for the informative video. I'm new to all this and am about to start my first guitar kit build. The kit came with spirit based dye and water based lacquer top coat. Can you tell me what sanding sealer I should use between the dye and the top coat?
Try Crystalac sanding sealer. Test on scrap first!!!
Love your videos! What brand(s) of clear sanding sealer do you recommend? This would be going over a purple dyed quilted maple top prior to finishing with Arm-R-Seal (and maybe a coat of shellac in between?) Thanks!
Thanks! Can you use the hand applied sanding sealers for that second technique? Or only the ones that you spray?
Yes. It is just a bit harder to level sand.
Do you scuff sand between coats of sealer?
Only if the coats went down bumpy. Otherwise I skip scuffing and spray each coat within an hour of each other.
Are you using sanding sealer in Lieu of grain filler or do you use grain filler and sanding sealer together?
can you apply sanding sealer after stain , but by brush ?
Sure.
I know this is an older video, but I still need some advice. I have a build with an ash top, and I want to stain it, so it pops the grain but prevent the stain from being spread unevenly. I've watched all your video's, but when I google it, I find mixed results. Some say don't use sanding sealer, because it would prevent the stain from being absorbed into the wood, others say I should use it, so the stain can spread evenly. I know I should fill the pores, because they are very open, but I'm not sure whether I should use sanding sealer before the stain or only after. Can you help?
I can't help because I don't know exactly what you're trying to achieve. All I can say is test on scrap first.
what grit do you use after sanding sealer prior to staining?
400.
What do you mean by figured wood?
Example: curly or quilted Maple
Would you put on a grain filler before the sanding sealer. In a previous video you talked about using z-poxy, then I cant believe it's no lacquer, and then Bright Tone for your top coat. Would you use the sanding sealer between the I can't believe it's not lacquer and the Bright Tone top coat?
I only use grain filler on woods with deep grain and pores that would cause my top coats to sink into them if they weren't filled. Z-Poxy is an excellent grain filler. So is ICBINL. It's not necessary to use a sanding sealer between ICBINL and Brite Tone. ICBINL sands very easy, so a sanding sealer really isn't needed.
I thought SANDING sealer was to seal the pits before you sand so dusts do not settle in there . That's why I like to apply epoxy coat on wood before final sanding ( .005" oversized ) . So when I sand, the wood would level with the epoxy inside the pits .
Sanding sealer is too thin to be used as a grain filler.
Hi Chris thanks for the video. It is okay to paint with acrylics or any colours formulated with sinthetics thinners using waterbased sanding sealers first? Thanks!
Yes.
Product? It is ready to shoot or must it be diluted? What type of lacquer thinner do you use?
Do you find the amber tone of this sealer changes the colors of wood or dye? I'm going to dye a figured top, but am concerned this product will change the color (as opposed to a clear sanding sealer).
Yes, it will change the color very slightly.
Which sanding sealer would you choose for figured maple that is dyed blue with transtint? I'm using brite tone for a top coat
Crystalac sanding sealer.
@@HighlineGuitars even with the "amber tone"? My fear has been that it would mess up the vibrant blues 🥺. If it doesn't, I'm all in. I trust ya
@@AfterlifeWoodworking The "amber" tint is barely there.
@@HighlineGuitars thank you so much!
I saw one of your other videos where you were using sanding sealer to level sand. I just hydrodipped a guitar body but some of the enamel paint I used has some small globs and high spots. Would sanding sealer be a good product to use to leave sand that down before clear coats? Or would a light clear coat be better to level sand before the real clear coats?
As long as they aren't to high, you should be able to layer the sanding sealer to bury them before spraying your top coats.
Would the advice you share here also apply to your homemade sealer based on joint compound? I have been using that on my ash and mahogany body woods and it has been great!
No, because that recipe is for grain filler, not sealer.
Hi, my name is Patrick...I have been trying to find the Crystalac Bright Tone water base and the retarder... but I have been having some issues...any ideas?? P.S. I live in the Seattle area...thank you..
thecrystalacstore.com/
Do you use sanding sealer before spraying an opaque color on wood that you don't care about its figure? Ex. Basswood Thanks!
No. That's what primer is for.
Great info. Do you use sanding sealer before spraying a translucent finish?
Yes.
I guess, what I'm asking , is can you vary between sealing, sanding, color filling,? Seal sand color, colorFILL, sand seal,color w/ more water base, sand, fill, and then go to finish?
Huh?
Thx for the info. Knew most of it. Hadn't considered being able to use finer grit abrasives. What sealer brand do you use? Is there +/- to using catalyzed/non-cat versions? I have a small spray booth with HVLP guns
I use Crystalac Sanding Sealer.
is pre stain wood conditioner the same as a grain filler?
No. Filler has a much higher solids content.
Is it redundant to use sanding sealer after filling the grain with zpoxy/resin epoxy?
Im at 4th coating and its looking smooth already.
If your intention is to achieve a smooth surface, then yes, sanding sealer would be redundant and not necessary.
When you apply sanding sealer after staining to you spray it on or is it ok to brush it on?
You can brush, but it’s way better to spray.
Hi Chris! How long should I wait after final sanding sealer coat to level sand and dye? It’s hot here in NJ so I was thinking after an hour I would be good. I put down a tack coat, sanded with 320, and then put on a thicker coat. Then planning to use 400. Thoughts?
Ask the sanding sealer manufacturer. It might say on the label.
@@HighlineGuitars Thank you Chris. It’s Behlen. It says an hour and no more than two coats. But I always like to defer to the expert before I trust a label. Thank you as always for your help and willingness to teach others. 🙏🏼
@@vincent33195 it’s totally dependent on the type. I use water-based. Behlen is solvent based.
do you also need this if you are working with artist oil paints? for example you apply wood filler then sanding sealer then paint? is that the order?
You should always use sanding sealer between the other products so they won't contaminate each other. For example; filler followed by sealer followed by paint followed by sealer followed by clear coats.
@@HighlineGuitars would tru oil also be considered a clear coat? for example after the oil paint then sealer then tru oil?
Will sanding sealer hinder a ceruse style finish on a guitar?
No. Of course it all depends on the type and how it was applied.
@@HighlineGuitars thank you for replying. I was going to dye the body black and add silver rub n buff to highlight the grain. I was concerned that the sealer might keep the rub n buff from collecting in the grain.
Hi Chris, loving all your videos, very informative and entertaining and I’m very keen to make a start on some instruments of my own.
I’ve bought some spray gear and like you I would love to go with water-based products if I could. Problem is, I’m in Australia so pretty much all of the products you recommend (including Crystalac) are not available, so I’m experimenting with what seem to be equivalent products from local paint suppliers. Water-based polyurethanes are no problem for top coats, but my question is what do you use for solid colours? Of course regular water-based acrylic low-sheen house paints are very easy to get, and in a huge variety of colours - do you find they work ok?
I like to mix my own paint using products you can't get. That being said, acrylic craft store paint works fairly well, but it can be a challenge to thin out for spraying.
@@HighlineGuitars Thanks Chris. Automotive paint supplies are easy to access too, but they are all oil based of course. I’ll experiment 😀
Hi Chris, do you wet sand your sealer and top coat? Or do you dry sand seen both but kinda confused. Thanks love the channel
I prefer dry sanding, but I’ll wet sand if I don’t have the dry sanding abrasives I like to use.
@@HighlineGuitars Chris I know you have explained sealers,tannin blockers and grain filler to death, however I was wondering if you would do a video set on how to do a guitar start to finish? I.e mahogany body with a high figured maple cap, explaining step by step procedure on grain filling the back and how to stain and seal and finish the top. Let us know times to let things set in between coats and so on. I would be more than happy to donate to your patreon account or pick something up off your website in return. You are the only channel on YT that takes the time to teach your craft and skills explicitly. Thank you in advance for this. Jerry
The sanding sealer on Crystalac's website says that it's amber toned....how strong is that? Can it still be used when you don't want an amber tone to the finish? They also show a clear product called It's "KNOT" Shellac that's listed as a sealer, but I don't recall ever seeing you use that one in your videos. Thanks!
I can't see any effect with 2-3 coats.
Sorry, if this is annoying, but , If you seal sand and color, can you then, color FILL, scrape, sand, and seal sand and color more? Or does that not make sense/
Huh?
So, sanding sealer before the first coat of color. Then we have sanding sealer first before color coat then sanding sealer as a clear coat primer before final clear coats, right?
If by color you mean dye or stain and not opaque paint. then yes.
@@HighlineGuitars I was under the impression that you sealed the wood first if painting a solid color to keep any oils from the wood messing with the solid color?
@@r.llynch4124 You do...WITH PRIMER!
@@HighlineGuitars k. Thanks
PLEASE HELP 😅: I want to start by saying thank you. I have really enjoyed learning from you and also the process of ‘doing-up’ my old rgx112 Yamaha Strat, using some of your techniques. I do have a question: I have finished dying the flamed maple veneer I applied to the top of the guitar with water mixed aniline dye (looks amazing). I now need to apply sanding sealer, level and apply topcoat. I have the LVLP (3500 you recommended). I just cant track down the same sanding sealer here in Australia (or not with our MASSIVE expense). I purchased ColorTone water based clear for the top coat and I am asking for recommendations (a few if possible) for the sanding sealer. I saw you (or others) used non-waterbased, as it wouldn’t interact with the water based dye as much? Is that the best approach? Or can I use water based if I can track that down? I just dont want to ruin the dye layer as it looks amazing. Ingredients/makeup rather than brand might help. Love your work!
Try the ColorTone sanding sealer. It’s the same as what I use, just rebranded by Stewmac.
@@HighlineGuitars thanks Chris. Is that the nitro one, or the water based?
@@Tzuau78 Water-based. Also, shellac works great and can be sprayed.
@@HighlineGuitars great, thanks mate
What order? Raw wood, dye, sanding sealer, grain filler, clear finish?. Put them in the proper order for me. Thanks.
You just did. Imagine that! Now treat yourself to a cookie. You’ve earned it.
@@HighlineGuitars Awesome. Thank you. I am going to practice on some hardwood scraps to see if I get the finish correct before doing my first guitar body. Of course lots of sanding between steps. Thanks.
Or do ya just seal, sand , color fill , SAND, SEAL,THEN add more colors?, Or, do ya need a sealer ,between each color coat, in order to get the grain to pop, and go 3D?
Huh?
Do you mean to make the grain to pop on e.g. a flame maple top? Just put on dye first. E.g. some black. Sand it back a bit. Apply the colored dye. Maybe rub over blotchy areas with steel wool. And then put on sanding sealer, level sand etc. and move on to clear coat once it's smooth.
@ Thanks. I guess, I wanted to know, if I should fill first, then dark dye.. Then sand, seal then apply 2nd color, b4 finish coat. Or, dark color first, fill, sand , then 2nd color, seal, then finish?- My concern, is end grain , soaking up dark coat , and "splotching".- should I fill end grain areas, before dark/1st coat?
When you use one of the UV curing products like solarez, what light do you use for curing? Thanks
Good old sunshine.