Q to Picard: You judge yourselves against the pitiful adversaries you've encountered so far - the Romulans, the Klingons. They're nothing compared to what's waiting.
*NEWSFLASH : Absolutely nobody noticed that the Changelings aka the Founders must have made upgrades, adjustment, or alterations to the Jem'hadar DNAΔRNA code(s), because as all viewers can see Third Talak'Talan is a Jem'Hadar soldier, etc who do not have a Ketracel-white drug dependency &, or tube feeder.*
At this point in the series, we didn’t know that the Vorta were spokespeople for the Founders. It wasn’t until the end of this episode that Eris revealed herself as working with the dominion
First time I saw this episode and watched him walk thru the field I said "Oh shit!" (speechless) This Jem"hadar could take out the entire station -with the exception of Worf- pretty easily.
@@thehantavirus Technically just Sisko's, he did pop open that wormhole. Or maybe just the prophets, A'LOT of death and destruction occurred due to their machinations if we gotta pin that wormhole on them.
*the look on Kira Nerys face tells you, she strongly desire to kill the smug, arrogant Jem'hadar killer mainly after Third Talak'Talan informs her the Jem'hadar killed her Bajoran people, but she is smart enough not to physically attack Third Talak'Talan.*
the eu material on him shows that he was unusually smart for a jem'hadar and hence quickly promoted. he is in the dominion wars video game as a dominion commander
*the look on Kira Nerys face tells you, she strongly desire to kill the smug, arrogant Jem'hadar killer mainly after Third Talak'Talan informs her the Jem'hadar killed her Bajoran people, but she is smart enough not to physically attack Third Talak'Talan.*
*NEWSFLASH : Absolutely nobody noticed that the Changelings aka the Founders must have made upgrades, adjustment, or alterations to the Jem'hadar DNAΔRNA code(s), because as all viewers can see Third Talak'Talan is a Jem'Hadar soldier, etc who do not have a Ketracel-white drug dependency &, or tube feeder.*
my man shows up beams in walks straight through a upper level forcefeild gives his information taunts warns leaves and that jemhadar was so happy because he realised when he beamed aboard that him and his brothers finally had a new war to win the second he saw their faces and their arrogance
*the look on Kira Nerys face tells you, she strongly desire to kill the smug, arrogant Jem'hadar killer mainly after Third Talak'Talan informs her the Jem'hadar killed her Bajoran people, but she is smart enough not to physically attack Third Talak'Talan.*
*NEWSFLASH : Absolutely nobody noticed that the Changelings aka the Founders must have made upgrades, adjustment, or alterations to the Jem'hadar DNAΔRNA code(s), because as all viewers can see Third Talak'Talan is a Jem'Hadar soldier, etc who do not have a Ketracel-white drug dependency &, or tube feeder.*
Not really. He's being condescending. He says they fought well for a [backward] doomed spiritual people. The dominion obviously killed all of them easily. They're basically dirty hippies as far as the jemhedar are concerned. They didn't fight well. They were routed. They fought well FOR A SPIRITUAL PEOPLE
Quark made some valid points. But he seems to conveniently forget that his people have a current resume of forced servitude if a family member such as females earn profit and gain. Everything is ruled by the whole concept of barter and Cut Throat business tactics. Let's not forget about his cousin who's also a weapons dealer and at one point he dabbled in it in the near future..... Ferengi are not better, but they are a reminder of what Humanity once was.
@@PassportBrosBusinessClass Slavery is slavery regardless. If you are not allowed to choose your own path in life you are a slave and not being able to change it isn't the same as accepting it.
*NEWSFLASH : Absolutely nobody noticed that the Changelings aka the Founders must have made upgrades, adjustment, or alterations to the Jem'hadar DNAΔRNA code(s), because as all viewers can see Third Talak'Talan is a Jem'Hadar soldier, etc who do not have a Ketracel-white drug dependency &, or tube feeder.*
The most interesting part of this video was the first part, where the Jem'Hadar Third mentions that the Dominion believes the Federation made a tactical error by signing a treaty with the Cardassians. The Federation signed this after it had basically achieved victory against the Cardassian Union (an entire Cardassian fleet was disarmed by the Enterprise at Minos Korva, for example), yet they ceded numerous disputed territories to the Cardassians. The Dominion viewed the Federation as weak because of this.
Good spot. That may have incited the Dominion to do the infiltration measures we saw later down the road to destabilize the government. They knew the Federation council was potentially corrupt or simply inept and could be softened down at little expense in resources needed. Indeed, that did happen. They were also able to leverage the strength of the Cardies later- I almost feel like the Dominion taught the Federation a lesson that they should've stomped the crap out of the Cardies when they had the chance so they wouldn't rise up and become a beehive again that would sting them without hesitation.
I believe the reason the Federation did that is for the reason stated later on in the series by I forgot who that they wanted the Cardassians to one day join the organisation. It could also be a Treaty of Versailles kind of situation where the Federation doesn't want to take too much from the Cardassian Union as it might radicalise the Cardassians and make a future war even more bloody. Of course we find out war with them in the future wasn't avoided by a favourable Treaty.
@@oldtwinsna8347 I would say that the 24th century federation/Starfleet had no warrior/militarist culture, so they were fine with signing treaties with concessions, even where they had the military advantage, simply to avoid more bloodshed and fighting. Picard hated that stuff (war), and saw Starfleet as having an "exploration" and science mission. Picard was the captain of Starfleet's flagship, so obviously his views were probably mainstream for Starfleet at the time. Starfleet and the federation thought that they had evolved beyond war and all that. Q tried to warn them that this was nonsense. "Paradise lost" in DS9 sort of touches on these issues. The federation's lack of willingness for combat. So, it's not weakness. It's "softness" mixed with an ideological aversion to war. But this would of course be perceived as weakness by warrior species like the jemhedar or the klingons, who enjoy fighting
The Founders viewed all "solids" through the lens of their ancient persecution, so their policy became to control or destroy any enemies before those enemies destroyed them. The Federation believes that respect and compassion can turn enemies into friends. Odo convinced his people to believe that too, hence the end of the war.
@@stevencoardvenice Haha your comment could be a catchall assessment of Deep Space Nine... "yes and no. Great scene. Nuanced" Could describe almost every character and episode! XD
So the Jem'Hadar massacred the Federation presence in the Gamma Quadrant and presumably grilled survivors for intelligence, then someone higher in the Dominion came up with an elaborate scheme for smuggling an attractive and seemingly vulnerable female Vorta into the Alpha Quadrant. What happened to the Federation detainees?
Murdered most likely - that's the thing about Federation ships They're science vessels primarily I.E. - they carry the complete history of multiple species, the federation itself - all the information you could *ever* want... now, multiply they by the scale of an outpost or station - and where are you??? The Dominion had no need for detainees - or survivors - they had a computer with a fuckin INDEX and god knows how many holodeck sims to teach them all they ever *wanted* to know about the Federation xD
Some were taken for questioning, others for study. Some for experimentation. If the population in New Bajor was large then some were spared in case they be useful as hostages. Live people have many uses.
There is something about Dax's attitude in this scene that irks me. She basically says "we are going to continue to violate your territory and there is nothing you can do about it".
Well I think that was basically the Federation's attitude at the time - a general view of "we are peaceful explorers so we will do whatever the fuck we want because we're the good guys".
Exactly. In the episode 'Arena' Kirk believes the Gorn have launched an unprovoked attack on an Earth colony only to later realise the colony had been unknowingly placed on a planet in Gorn space, which the Gorn took as an act of aggression/invasion. As soon as Kirk realised the error the implication is Starfleet left their territory, not said we'll keep violating your space anyway.
@@Deepingmind Then you're naive. There is nothing to indicate that the Dominion don't invade even if the Federation had projected weakness by backing down.
It's funny how many people just take the Dominion's words at face value. As far as we know, none of the planets or territories the Federation explored had any beacons, buoys, or identifying signs to suggest that they belonged to the Dominion. The Dominion provided no deeds, treaties, or documents of any kind to show ownership of those planets and territories. The Dominion did not bother to warn any of the ships or colonies in the Gamma Quadrant before destroying them. The fact that Starfleet didn't know what happened to those ships and colonies suggests the Dominion covered up their destruction. Which is not something you would do if you want people to stay away from your territory. If the Vulcans came in and said that Mars belonged to them, should earth let them have it? And the Vulcans would actually have more claim over Mars since they surveyed our solar system before humans. And not to mention how much information the Dominion already had on the Federation. They were able to create perfect simulations of DS9 and Starfleet in "The Search," which means they had been spying on the Federation and gathering intel for a long time.
I agree. The Dominion was hardly a trustworthy source for the claim they were making. For all the proof they showed, ie "none", the attack on that Bajoran colony was the first time they actually laid any claim to that planet.
Their space is vast, it was shown in the show before this the jem hadar is sent in when the dominion gets upset. its possible all those ships were destroyed days earlier as soon as the dominion decided to attack. No survivors means no one would of been able to go back to tell anyone or warn. After this we see the odyssey get destroyed without much effort which was shocking. So no doubt all those ships colonies etc would of been destroyed just as easy and quickly since their weapons could go right through shields.
Dax to the captain of the Odessy: We are coming with you. Captian: Are you sure that is wise? What Dax should have said given later events: Yeah, we need survivors to describe your destruction.
Yeah, DS9 wasn't completely dependent on shields, unlike every other Federation ship. You'd think they would be more careful with a group with exotic shields in a whole other quadrant.
No joke ha.. you know they chose a galaxy class for shock value when it was destroyed. A small fast scouting vessel would of made more sense. Especially when you have no idea what you're up against. Like taking your best warrior into the forrest and gets mauled by a pack of wolves. Stupid.
@@cranbers I suspect that in the story the Odessy had the "only ship in the quadrant" kind of luck. The Enterprise had that repeatedly, like in Star Trek 1. But, you are right. I believe if you look at the command chemistry during the battle between the skipper of the Odessy and the XO it looked a lot like Picard/Riker. I suspect the point here is that if this was the Enterprise it would have also been destroyed, adding to the shock value.
Always liked that the Jem Hadar gave props to the Bajoran colonists. After 50 years of fighting the Cardassians, you know the Bajorans are gonna go down swinging.
It was arrogant for Star fleet to go through the anomaly and start colonizing worlds with no regard to what interstellar empires they could belong too. What would happen if the dominion started invading “Star fleet” space and started setting up out posts? War.
No, if the Dominion attempted to colonize a world in Federation territory, Starfleet would contact them and kindly request they not do so. Only if the Dominion would refuse, there would be war. If the Dominion had simply contacted the Federation with a request to stop colonizing, Starfleet would obviously have agreed. But then again, the Dominion was _always_ going to invade the Alpha Quadrant, because this thing called a 'tv show' was happening
The Dominion had summarily claimed all of existence long before the Wormhole was found. But the material reality is twofold. 1) Given that the other episodes where the Dominion is mentioned, they are nowhere near the Dominion's actual borders. 2) Attacking that many Federation and other worlds colonies and ships is 1000% an act of war on the part of the Dominion. They already know this much about the Alpha Quadrant they could have just as easily sent a Jem'Hadar task force to Deep Space 9 handed over a map as they did that PADD and say "This is our border, stay away or else." No one understands a Neutral Zone like the Federation. They would follow those instructions and make sure everyone else does too.
Star Fleet didn't colonize shit. They started building outposts for supply lines and science stations. The bajorans started colonizing random planets. Federation colonization takes a long time because they never colonize planets with ANY LIFE on them (prime directive). So they usually take inhabitable planets and terraform them.
*NEWSFLASH : Absolutely nobody noticed that the Changelings aka the Founders must have made upgrades, adjustment, or alterations to the Jem'hadar DNAΔRNA code(s), because as all viewers can see Third Talak'Talan is a Jem'Hadar soldier, etc who do not have a Ketracel-white drug dependency &, or tube feeder.*
@@Exodianecross1978 *I can see it too, but just because the tube is black don't mean the Ketracel-white drug is flowing through it, or anything is flowing through it.*
I don't think I really apprecated the significance of that Jem'Hadar on the station before. "You know nothing about us except that we killed thousands of you just to say hello."
This was the first introduction of the dominion, the writers at the time may have had some additional ideas for the Jem'hadar before settling them down as strict fighting soldiers.
*NEWSFLASH : Absolutely nobody noticed that the Changelings aka the Founders must have made upgrades, adjustment, or alterations to the Jem'hadar DNAΔRNA code(s), because as all viewers can see Third Talak'Talan is a Jem'Hadar soldier, etc who do not have a Ketracel-white drug dependency &, or tube feeder.*
“You bring a list of murdered civilians to my Ops Center. You threaten the Alpha Quadrant with slavery and death. You insult my First Officer. Oh, I have chosen my words carefully, Jem’Hadar. Perhaps you should have done the same!”
The core difference, Quark, between humanity and Ferengi is that we've had that opportunity to learn where the darkness can lead us. Unlike the Ferengi who have latched onto their old ways and are uneager to change merely for material wealth, the Federation seeks to improve itself and its allies through peace and understanding. So in essence, yes, we're nothing like the Ferengi. We're better for having learned the hard way, as opposed to a species who has yet to see what depths they'll go to for a quick strip of latnium.
@@danieldickson8591 Worst plot point star trek ever ran with and single-handedly ruined the ferengi after it. It's almost a blessing in disguise that no legitimate star trek series has gone past the dominion war era.
@@Archedgarno, tons of legitimate Star Trek shows have continued onwards and even specifically visited Ferenginar. Your hypersensitivity doesn't somehow mean you aren't wrong.
@@Archedgar I'm sorry, I didn't mean to trigger you! I know the fact that so many Star Trek shows are both canonical and extremely popular with both trekkies normal audiences must be really frustrating. Hopefully you'll get through this and learn to move on.
The Dominion is 100% justified here. The wormhole anomaly should have had restricted access until an agreement could be hammered out that both sides found reasonable instead of just going FUCK IT and sending a bunch of assholes to do as they please.
They were wrong. The Dominions didn't even anounce themselves for any agreement. They immidiately slaughtered everyone who came through the Wormhole and then made the ridiculous and false claim to the entire Quadrant. For all the Federation knew about the Dominion they stayed away from their Borders. But you can't stay away when the Dipshits claim "Well actually the entire Quadrant is ours."
Agreed. The Federation should have then delegated the Grand Nagus to take charge by negotiating trade agreements. There is some possibility the Dominion would have agreed to some limited trade in exchange for exploration passage to some extent. Instead, the Federation were brutal uncivilized monsters who waged war.
The wormhole wasn't in Dominion territory, so they weren't justified at all. It's the equivalent of China claiming the right to bar passage through the Suez canal.
@@VolrinSeth Incorrect but let's roll with it; The federation knowingly violated dominion territory even after being told in no uncertain terms to GTFO. Wormhole or not, that's 100% on the feds.
@@Archedgar You dont get to blindly assert I am incorrect. In which episode, preceding this one, did thr Dominion comminicate their territory to the Fed or Bajor?
this shows how little they thought of the federation as a threat. they sent a 3rd to the station. not a first. a 3rd. "we don't need to send a leader. you get a junior officer."
I hear they fought well for a spiritual people: "SUFFERING IS OUR PRAYER, IN BATTLE HE OFFERS US REDEMPTION! DEATH TO THE XENO! THE HERETICS! THE MUTANTS!
Quark is wrong about Ferengi being better than humans. They're still greedy, acquisitive and interested only in profit. And during the time this episode originally aired, they didn't even allow women to wear clothes or earn profit.
Alright, in this instance, the federation was absolutely in the wrong. The dominion had already explored that area and laid claim to it. The federation wasn’t charting an undiscovered new quadrant, it was mindlessly running through the territory of a sovereign power.
The Federation didnt do anything wrong. They sent in Recon teams through the Wormhole. The Bajorans did the colonizing but even that isnt wrong. They did know about the Dominion, but from what they gathered they were nowhere near the Dominions actual Borders. The Dominion just laid claim to the entire Quadrant, which is ridiculous and a lie. Then instead of sending the Colonists etc. Home, dispatching a Jem'Hadar to drop off a Map saying "look, these are our Borders. Stay away", they immidiately slaughtered everyone without any form of warning. And that my Friend is an act of War.
If someone you don't know sends armed troops into your home, lays claim to your property and tells you to get out so that they can explore the homes nearby to claim them as well... that's called invasion, which is an act of war. The Dominion response while harsh well beyond need was still justified.
@@Deepingmind So you commented and just didn't bother to read anything? The Dominions Respone was not justified, not even close. Like mentioned the Planets where they mass murdered everyone weren't even in their actual territory. To give you an equally simple analogy: Imagine a couple houses in your street are vacant and for some deluded reason you lay claim to them all. On top of that you do so without telling anyone. Now the Houses get sold and new people move in, which then all get slaughtered by you, because they were in your eyes effectively tresspasing on your property. But that wasn't actually your property, was it? This is was the Dominion did and don't even try to tell me this was a justified behavior.
@@CedricBassman I read what was present, and responded to the relevant material involved with the episode and events. You're confusion on the material is by no means reflective to my point.
Stay out of our space! Federation then turns up with their then most powerful battleship to "investigate." I call that intimidation, so they deserved a war tbh.
@@manticore4952 I suggest you rewatch the episode "the Jem Hadar." A Jem Hadar hands Kira a padd saying here's the colonies destroyed for violation of Dominion space, similar to the Gorn in TOS. Instead of the Federation being more apologetic for not knowing they send in a heavily armed Starship along with runabouts.
@@stewartmcminn7773 Yeah and DS9 made more sense. They didn't know they were intruders, especially since the Dominions rather ridiculous claim over the entire Quadrant seemed exactly that, ridiculous. Not even the Borg manage to control an entire Quadrant. And they could've easily sent them all back, the Colonists didnt know any better. Instead they slaughtered everyone without warning which in itself is an act of War.
@@CedricBassman They didn't explicitly claim all of the Gamma Quadrant, just the area around where the wormhole opened. But they are a 2000+ year old empire so they are pretty big.
@@stewartmcminn7773 : A Jem Hadar hands Kira a padd saying here's the colonies destroyed for violation of Dominion space, similar to the Gorn in TOS. Instead of the Federation being more apologetic for not knowing they send in a heavily armed Starship along with runabouts." Except that: A. You can't retro-actively claim stuff. They never communicated with the Federation of Bajor before this incident. B. They kidnapped Sisko for a crime he couldn't possibly be aware of and planned to keep him indefintitely.
Fair enough Quark, however, in Ferengi society women are subjugated and denied basic individual freedom. Ferengi within glass Dominion security barriers shouldn’t throw stones!
2:00 Jadzia is a tad bit aggressive here. Sure , the Dominion is a despotic , oppressive empire, but they still warned the AQ powers to not violate their territory.
I've always wondered WHY the Dominion wouldn't just place a beacon that was properly shielded on "their" side of the Wormhole to deter outsiders. A simple map of the quadrant showing the territory they claimed as theirs would have deterred the Federation at minimum. If they had simply given some indicator that the territory was theirs, Starfleet would have avoided it or sought diplomacy/ trade at minimum. Establishing some form of communication between the 2 factions would have nipped so many problems early on.
Because the founders would be revealing their existence by doing that. It's much smarter to lurk and observe. And The founders have no interest in cultural exchange with filthy solids
To make a show of force. The Dominion probably didn't know about the wormhole's existence until ships started pouring through, or if they did know, they didn't care. Perhaps they were even testing response times to ships going missing. If you know your enemy takes weeks to come looking, then you know they're too far away to do anything about it right away.
Well honestly putting beacons like that is more a sign of hostility. It's like having "keep out, no tresspasing signs" on a fenced border. Dominion worlds actually seemed hands-off where they didn't have space stations or starbases occupying those worlds. They let the natives run their own show as long as galactic conquest was not on their agenda. So it's a bit of twist of irony that Federation worlds are in fact under the tight fist of the Federation while in the Dominion it is relaxed.
@@oldtwinsna8347 Those No Trespassing signs aren't signs of hostility at all. They're literally markers on a property line. They're essentially just a more visible method of displaying property lines.
The Star Trek approach: make a terrifying and formidable foe, then slowly wussify them as time goes on by having the plucky Federation beat them out in almost every situation.
That's not what happened though. The Jem'hadar weren't pussified. The actual BS was the writers suddenly making the wormhole useless except for 'the good guys'. The Dominion had only a tiny fraction of its strength after the writers went full deus ex machina so it was 'the Dominion' that got nerfed rather than the Jem'hadar. You are right but for the wrong reasons.
That 'wissification' is the Federations advantage. Its huge amount of effort devoted to scientific research. The Jem'Hadar/ Dominion screwed up in this scene so bad. They showed off their tech superiority. In a way that the Federation could monitor and record what happened. Every nerfing of the Dominion tech advantage was earned over the course of seasons.
Quark: Ferengi don't have slavery. Meanwhile, on Ferenginar, females who earn profit are punished by being sold into indentured servitude, probably for the rest of their lives, effectively a form of slavery.
I wonder what would Jem'Hadar say if they had met the Hirogen or Species 8472. Even they would run back to their gods the Founders. Especially after seeing a Species 8472.
Jem Hadar against borg or species 8472 would have been really interesting it's too bad that voyager was so isolated, I wouldn't have minded seeing a jem Hadar there, but who knows theirs always future stories
Strictly speaking, the Dominion and Jem'hadar are correct. If the territory is claimed and the claimant doesn't want you inside their borders, you should stay out.
It goes back to how Eddington told Sisko that the Federation is just like the Borg, only that the Borg at least telling you you're going to be assimilated. The same case can be made here. The Dominion did NOT WANT the Federation coming onto their turf, they had zero interest in getting to know one another and had no reason to trust, nor wanted to build trust. They simply did not want to be assimilated. No difference than a reaction to what the Federation reacted to the Borg.
If the Pakleds "claim" every uninhabited planet in the universe as theirs, does the Federation have to cease all exploration to avoid violating their "territorial sovereignty"? Of course not. You have to actually have people, bases, equipment, ANYTHING on a planet before it can be called yours, along with the surrounding space. The Federation didn't encounter a single Dominion representative until this point, the planets were clearly uninhabited rocks far away from actual Dominion space.
@@dswrabkln4900 It's not quite the same thing. If instead of the Gamma Quadrant, the wormhole opened into the middle of Romulan Space, you think the Federation would pop in and be like "nah it's cool we're here cuz the wormhole let us?"
That's not the point she's making. She making the point that kidnapping Sisko is not going to compell the Federation to do listen to what the Dominion demands.
But it doesn't - it took months for the Federation to know that the Dominon existed and even longer for them to know what it was. It is more likely that the Dominion has no border. It has many vassal states and apparently has no competition.
It sounds like an insult, but for a jem hadar to say someone fought well is quite a compliment, even if it's accompanied by a jab at the bajoran faith. The Jem Hadar actually do respect those who are brave enough to stand up to them, especially if they put up a good fight
It's a shame the writers created a bit of a problem for themselves early on with all the insane abilities they have the vorta and the jem hadar. If the Federation had fought THIS Dominion in pretty sure they'd have lost in a few days!
On getting the intel that the Dominion out classed them in some ways the Federation did what it does best. Science. I really like how the Dominion start with a tech advantage but the Federation closes the tactical gap over the course of seasons.
Along with the Cardassians, a more (neutral cause I'm biased towards Romulans, being Latino) advanced and lethal adversary, only bested by the Borg (mostly pre-"Voyager").
Thanks. Still not backing down though Victor Krum. Not because I’m a racist or anything. But because I’m simply better at everything compared to you. Dictatorship vs dictatorship. Didn’t expect that did you? Important thing about being a democracy is to only look like one so the normies don’t get scared. Everything gets taken care of behind closed doors. We don’t do red carpets and applause like the bald Eagles. Our quality of work speaks for itself
"If you think detaining commander sisko will stop us from exploring the Gamma Quadrant." Uh, Dax? It's not your territory. It's their territory, and you're basically still in first contact protocol.
Dax was also out of line. She was not a command officer and not even an acting command officer. She had no authority to speak on behalf of the Federation for a statement of that magnitude to an emissary of a foreign power on official business.
he said deflectors ... not deflector shields. it is entirely possible (and likely, to be honest) that the ship's hull itself was deflecting the tractor beam.
So all the Federation had to do to avoid the entire Dominion War was stay on their side of the wormhole? Seems like an easy way to avoid a war that killed billions of Alpha Quadrant people.
I don't think it is quite that simple. Untill this episode they had had no official contact with the Dominion. The Dominion could have told the Bajorans to leave their planet but instead they destroyed the colony. I think war was almost inevitable.
4:14 quark is forgetting that the ferengi were still doing all of these things until a few years ago while the humans in this setting stopped that nonsense hundreds of years ago.
Technically half of Ferengi are slaves, their female half. But that still doesn’t exclude them from any examples in humanity’s past 😕 hell if Star Trek were taking place during Shakespeare’s time, that is to say even today’s form of the English language, all the actors portraying characters both male and female would be reserved only for men
Q to Picard: You judge yourselves against the pitiful adversaries you've encountered so far - the Romulans, the Klingons. They're nothing compared to what's waiting.
voyager was able to defeat species 8472 who was able to beat the borg, i think thats like the rock paper scissors situation
Worth noting that the Romulans and the Klingons helped them to beat the Dominion
@@MrRodzilla Done in the most hackneyed way possible. Voyager was such a waste of potential.
@@OpenMawProductionsimagine if Voyager had been like Enterprise season 3, lost in foreign space, struggling to survive.
@@louiscachet7681If only the Year of Hell idea actually became a whole season.
You know the Dominion means business when they send a Jem'Hadar to conduct diplomacy rather than a Vorta.
*NEWSFLASH : Absolutely nobody noticed that the Changelings aka the Founders must have made upgrades, adjustment, or alterations to the Jem'hadar DNAΔRNA code(s), because as all viewers can see Third Talak'Talan is a Jem'Hadar soldier, etc who do not have a Ketracel-white drug dependency &, or tube feeder.*
This Jem'Hadar wasn't there to conduct diplomacy. He was there to deliver a demand and a threat.
At this point in the series, we didn’t know that the Vorta were spokespeople for the Founders. It wasn’t until the end of this episode that Eris revealed herself as working with the dominion
Would have spoiled the plot reveal if a Vorta had beamed onto DS9 to give the threat (well, spoiled it for us viewers anyway).
@@hebrewyisraeliteyahawadahite He has a tube but I guess it was an early stage of their design because it's completely black.
The episode that lowkey launched the DS9 franchise.
True!
Absolutely true
DS9 is not a franchise.
the franchise would be 'star trek' DS9 is a show within the franchise.
"DS9 franchise"?
Walking through a containment field is like breaking off handcuffs in front of the police while wearing full body armor.
they warned the federation space not to violate dominion space, the war is on the federations hands.
First time I saw this episode and watched him walk thru the field I said "Oh shit!" (speechless) This Jem"hadar could take out the entire station -with the exception of Worf- pretty easily.
@@XTRABIG I think this was before word transfers to ds9
@@thehantavirus Technically just Sisko's, he did pop open that wormhole. Or maybe just the prophets, A'LOT of death and destruction occurred due to their machinations if we gotta pin that wormhole on them.
*the look on Kira Nerys face tells you, she strongly desire to kill the smug, arrogant Jem'hadar killer mainly after Third Talak'Talan informs her the Jem'hadar killed her Bajoran people, but she is smart enough not to physically attack Third Talak'Talan.*
That Jem'hadar was much more animated than the rest. He must have been fairly old by their standards.
before the dominion war, they probably were in peace time, as dominion dint have many wars, it make sense he would be older.
the eu material on him shows that he was unusually smart for a jem'hadar and hence quickly promoted. he is in the dominion wars video game as a dominion commander
*the look on Kira Nerys face tells you, she strongly desire to kill the smug, arrogant Jem'hadar killer mainly after Third Talak'Talan informs her the Jem'hadar killed her Bajoran people, but she is smart enough not to physically attack Third Talak'Talan.*
He was probably an honoured elder...
*NEWSFLASH : Absolutely nobody noticed that the Changelings aka the Founders must have made upgrades, adjustment, or alterations to the Jem'hadar DNAΔRNA code(s), because as all viewers can see Third Talak'Talan is a Jem'Hadar soldier, etc who do not have a Ketracel-white drug dependency &, or tube feeder.*
This is probably one of the most badass intros for a formidable race ever
Finally someone said it! lol can’t believe more people didn’t notice this too! It’s on par with the John wick intro
my man shows up beams in walks straight through a upper level forcefeild gives his information taunts warns leaves and that jemhadar was so happy because he realised when he beamed aboard that him and his brothers finally had a new war to win the second he saw their faces and their arrogance
When a warrior race says your people fought well you know your species can really throw down when it matters.
Only because Cardassians occupied Bajor.
*the look on Kira Nerys face tells you, she strongly desire to kill the smug, arrogant Jem'hadar killer mainly after Third Talak'Talan informs her the Jem'hadar killed her Bajoran people, but she is smart enough not to physically attack Third Talak'Talan.*
I'd rather go to war with the Klingons than the Bajorans.
*NEWSFLASH : Absolutely nobody noticed that the Changelings aka the Founders must have made upgrades, adjustment, or alterations to the Jem'hadar DNAΔRNA code(s), because as all viewers can see Third Talak'Talan is a Jem'Hadar soldier, etc who do not have a Ketracel-white drug dependency &, or tube feeder.*
Not really. He's being condescending. He says they fought well for a [backward] doomed spiritual people.
The dominion obviously killed all of them easily.
They're basically dirty hippies as far as the jemhedar are concerned.
They didn't fight well. They were routed. They fought well FOR A SPIRITUAL PEOPLE
Quark lecturing Sisko is one of his best moments from the early episodes!
Quark made some valid points. But he seems to conveniently forget that his people have a current resume of forced servitude if a family member such as females earn profit and gain. Everything is ruled by the whole concept of barter and Cut Throat business tactics. Let's not forget about his cousin who's also a weapons dealer and at one point he dabbled in it in the near future..... Ferengi are not better, but they are a reminder of what Humanity once was.
Cian McCabe
Bartering women is absolutely NOTHING like America’s chattel slavery.
Especially if the women accept it culturally.
@@wa.a.s.nfa.2786 Not to mention Ferengi females weren't even allowed to wear clothes at the time this episode originally aired.
Sisko's face when he mentioned slavery definitely got his attention. As we found out later Sisko knows a lot about the civil rights movement
@@PassportBrosBusinessClass Slavery is slavery regardless. If you are not allowed to choose your own path in life you are a slave and not being able to change it isn't the same as accepting it.
The most badass Jem'Hadar of all time.
And he was only 3rd. Who were the 1st and 2nd?
Maah. The one that killed Weyoum.
*NEWSFLASH : Absolutely nobody noticed that the Changelings aka the Founders must have made upgrades, adjustment, or alterations to the Jem'hadar DNAΔRNA code(s), because as all viewers can see Third Talak'Talan is a Jem'Hadar soldier, etc who do not have a Ketracel-white drug dependency &, or tube feeder.*
The one who killed Weyoun 1, the one who wouldn't kill Worf, and the one who cold-turkeyed Ketracel White were also GOATs.
@@douglasstewart4790
I wish this guy was in more episodes
The most interesting part of this video was the first part, where the Jem'Hadar Third mentions that the Dominion believes the Federation made a tactical error by signing a treaty with the Cardassians. The Federation signed this after it had basically achieved victory against the Cardassian Union (an entire Cardassian fleet was disarmed by the Enterprise at Minos Korva, for example), yet they ceded numerous disputed territories to the Cardassians. The Dominion viewed the Federation as weak because of this.
Good spot. That may have incited the Dominion to do the infiltration measures we saw later down the road to destabilize the government. They knew the Federation council was potentially corrupt or simply inept and could be softened down at little expense in resources needed. Indeed, that did happen. They were also able to leverage the strength of the Cardies later- I almost feel like the Dominion taught the Federation a lesson that they should've stomped the crap out of the Cardies when they had the chance so they wouldn't rise up and become a beehive again that would sting them without hesitation.
I believe the reason the Federation did that is for the reason stated later on in the series by I forgot who that they wanted the Cardassians to one day join the organisation. It could also be a Treaty of Versailles kind of situation where the Federation doesn't want to take too much from the Cardassian Union as it might radicalise the Cardassians and make a future war even more bloody.
Of course we find out war with them in the future wasn't avoided by a favourable Treaty.
This is interesting. I dont remember this treaty at all. Or the scene where the dominion references it. Was this treaty done during TNG or DS9?
@@oldtwinsna8347 I would say that the 24th century federation/Starfleet had no warrior/militarist culture, so they were fine with signing treaties with concessions, even where they had the military advantage, simply to avoid more bloodshed and fighting. Picard hated that stuff (war), and saw Starfleet as having an "exploration" and science mission. Picard was the captain of Starfleet's flagship, so obviously his views were probably mainstream for Starfleet at the time. Starfleet and the federation thought that they had evolved beyond war and all that. Q tried to warn them that this was nonsense. "Paradise lost" in DS9 sort of touches on these issues. The federation's lack of willingness for combat. So, it's not weakness. It's "softness" mixed with an ideological aversion to war.
But this would of course be perceived as weakness by warrior species like the jemhedar or the klingons, who enjoy fighting
The Founders viewed all "solids" through the lens of their ancient persecution, so their policy became to control or destroy any enemies before those enemies destroyed them. The Federation believes that respect and compassion can turn enemies into friends. Odo convinced his people to believe that too, hence the end of the war.
The death stare Sisko gives Quark when he mentions slavery 🥶
No death stare detected. Quark was making good points. Unexpectedly
@@stevencoardvenice
Yes but out of context... so he was just showing off.
@@nuca5104 yes and no. Great scene. Nuanced
@@stevencoardvenice
Haha your comment could be a catchall assessment of Deep Space Nine...
"yes and no. Great scene. Nuanced"
Could describe almost every character and episode! XD
Even centuries later, that word must hit differently for black humans.
Me in stellaris when a civilization with pathetic fleet level and Tech level keeps entering my borders via the wormhole
We are nothing like you!! We are better - I have a lock to pick!! Great line!!
The futuristic equivalent of walking in and dropping the decapitated heads of your foes at the feet of your enemy.
The episode that began with a whimper and went out with a bang. This episode redefined DS9
Kira was about to show him just how "spiritual" she could get.
Um...that wouldn't have ended well for her I'm afraid.
@Hibbs4Prez I wouldn't be so sure. Kira knows how to fight. Not to mention has plot armor.
He’d have ripped her head off! Kira is hard as fuck don’t t get me wrong though
Kira's two-hander Kirk maneuver can take out anyone haha.
@jerodast lmao God that technique was cringe, and so overused
I keep being reminded of things I missed or had forgotten about this show! What a treasure trove! Keep up the good work! 🖖🏻
I was really hoping to meet a Klingon. shit. that says a lot.
Just wait till they meet Hirogen from Delta Quadrant.
that still sends chills down my spine lol
it says the jem hadar are sorryazz fighters
The actor that portrayed that Jem’Hadar defined the Jem’Hadar until the end of the series.
Cress Williams , great actor .
So the Jem'Hadar massacred the Federation presence in the Gamma Quadrant and presumably grilled survivors for intelligence, then someone higher in the Dominion came up with an elaborate scheme for smuggling an attractive and seemingly vulnerable female Vorta into the Alpha Quadrant. What happened to the Federation detainees?
Murdered most likely - that's the thing about Federation ships
They're science vessels primarily
I.E. - they carry the complete history of multiple species, the federation itself - all the information you could *ever* want... now, multiply they by the scale of an outpost or station - and where are you???
The Dominion had no need for detainees - or survivors - they had a computer with a fuckin INDEX and god knows how many holodeck sims to teach them all they ever *wanted* to know about the Federation xD
There are no detainees.
@@kayak0000 probably true, at that
Some were taken for questioning, others for study. Some for experimentation. If the population in New Bajor was large then some were spared in case they be useful as hostages. Live people have many uses.
There is something about Dax's attitude in this scene that irks me. She basically says "we are going to continue to violate your territory and there is nothing you can do about it".
Well I think that was basically the Federation's attitude at the time - a general view of "we are peaceful explorers so we will do whatever the fuck we want because we're the good guys".
This is why I play the Dominion in Armada III. They’re open about being shitty people.
Exactly. In the episode 'Arena' Kirk believes the Gorn have launched an unprovoked attack on an Earth colony only to later realise the colony had been unknowingly placed on a planet in Gorn space, which the Gorn took as an act of aggression/invasion. As soon as Kirk realised the error the implication is Starfleet left their territory, not said we'll keep violating your space anyway.
From day one until this day and all to follow it, I will forever blame the Federation for the War.
@@Deepingmind
Then you're naive. There is nothing to indicate that the Dominion don't invade even if the Federation had projected weakness by backing down.
When Quark goes in. He goes in hard.
It's funny how many people just take the Dominion's words at face value. As far as we know, none of the planets or territories the Federation explored had any beacons, buoys, or identifying signs to suggest that they belonged to the Dominion. The Dominion provided no deeds, treaties, or documents of any kind to show ownership of those planets and territories. The Dominion did not bother to warn any of the ships or colonies in the Gamma Quadrant before destroying them. The fact that Starfleet didn't know what happened to those ships and colonies suggests the Dominion covered up their destruction. Which is not something you would do if you want people to stay away from your territory.
If the Vulcans came in and said that Mars belonged to them, should earth let them have it? And the Vulcans would actually have more claim over Mars since they surveyed our solar system before humans.
And not to mention how much information the Dominion already had on the Federation. They were able to create perfect simulations of DS9 and Starfleet in "The Search," which means they had been spying on the Federation and gathering intel for a long time.
I agree. The Dominion was hardly a trustworthy source for the claim they were making. For all the proof they showed, ie "none", the attack on that Bajoran colony was the first time they actually laid any claim to that planet.
They were expecting the Federation decades afterwards. They knew of them.
Their space is vast, it was shown in the show before this the jem hadar is sent in when the dominion gets upset. its possible all those ships were destroyed days earlier as soon as the dominion decided to attack. No survivors means no one would of been able to go back to tell anyone or warn. After this we see the odyssey get destroyed without much effort which was shocking. So no doubt all those ships colonies etc would of been destroyed just as easy and quickly since their weapons could go right through shields.
Dax to the captain of the Odessy: We are coming with you.
Captian: Are you sure that is wise?
What Dax should have said given later events: Yeah, we need survivors to describe your destruction.
Yeah, DS9 wasn't completely dependent on shields, unlike every other Federation ship. You'd think they would be more careful with a group with exotic shields in a whole other quadrant.
No joke ha.. you know they chose a galaxy class for shock value when it was destroyed. A small fast scouting vessel would of made more sense. Especially when you have no idea what you're up against. Like taking your best warrior into the forrest and gets mauled by a pack of wolves. Stupid.
@@cranbers I suspect that in the story the Odessy had the "only ship in the quadrant" kind of luck. The Enterprise had that repeatedly, like in Star Trek 1. But, you are right. I believe if you look at the command chemistry during the battle between the skipper of the Odessy and the XO it looked a lot like Picard/Riker. I suspect the point here is that if this was the Enterprise it would have also been destroyed, adding to the shock value.
No ketrisel white tubes.
Never noticed that before
He's wearing one, it's black for some reason.
@@printezstroman Old tubes? Could be an elder
No cream/sugar.
They probably cut his supply so that he is extra snarky.
Always liked that the Jem Hadar gave props to the Bajoran colonists. After 50 years of fighting the Cardassians, you know the Bajorans are gonna go down swinging.
It was whatever the opposite of a backhanded compliment is.
@@Badartist888not even that, it was literally just a compliment.
"We're coming with you."
"Are you sure that's wise? My ship probably won't survive this episode."
It was arrogant for Star fleet to go through the anomaly and start colonizing worlds with no regard to what interstellar empires they could belong too. What would happen if the dominion started invading “Star fleet” space and started setting up out posts? War.
No, if the Dominion attempted to colonize a world in Federation territory, Starfleet would contact them and kindly request they not do so. Only if the Dominion would refuse, there would be war. If the Dominion had simply contacted the Federation with a request to stop colonizing, Starfleet would obviously have agreed.
But then again, the Dominion was _always_ going to invade the Alpha Quadrant, because this thing called a 'tv show' was happening
In the behind the scenes one of the writers said The Dominion was preparing for The Federation, they were going to prepare for a war
The Dominion had summarily claimed all of existence long before the Wormhole was found. But the material reality is twofold.
1) Given that the other episodes where the Dominion is mentioned, they are nowhere near the Dominion's actual borders.
2) Attacking that many Federation and other worlds colonies and ships is 1000% an act of war on the part of the Dominion.
They already know this much about the Alpha Quadrant they could have just as easily sent a Jem'Hadar task force to Deep Space 9 handed over a map as they did that PADD and say "This is our border, stay away or else." No one understands a Neutral Zone like the Federation. They would follow those instructions and make sure everyone else does too.
Star Fleet didn't colonize shit. They started building outposts for supply lines and science stations. The bajorans started colonizing random planets. Federation colonization takes a long time because they never colonize planets with ANY LIFE on them (prime directive). So they usually take inhabitable planets and terraform them.
what a stewpid comment
I think this was my favorite episode. that Jem'Hadar is just too bad ass
jem hadar is soft
*NEWSFLASH : Absolutely nobody noticed that the Changelings aka the Founders must have made upgrades, adjustment, or alterations to the Jem'hadar DNAΔRNA code(s), because as all viewers can see Third Talak'Talan is a Jem'Hadar soldier, etc who do not have a Ketracel-white drug dependency &, or tube feeder.*
@@hebrewyisraeliteyahawadahite He has a tube feeder, it's just black.
@@Exodianecross1978 *I can see it too, but just because the tube is black don't mean the Ketracel-white drug is flowing through it, or anything is flowing through it.*
@@hebrewyisraeliteyahawadahite This episode was the debut of the Jem'Hadar, several things were changed in subsequent episodes and seasons!
Best Jem'hadar ever
One of... Ramataklan was the best.
I don't think I really apprecated the significance of that Jem'Hadar on the station before.
"You know nothing about us except that we killed thousands of you just to say hello."
And, with a bit of luck, everyone in the Alpha Quadrant's life was ruined forever.
they’d keep thinking behind every wormhole, there’d be Jem Hadar getting incredible kicks from things they’ll never know
Jem'Hadar seem like perfectly apt diplomats
This was the first introduction of the dominion, the writers at the time may have had some additional ideas for the Jem'hadar before settling them down as strict fighting soldiers.
@@worldofthought8352 Plus they couldn't very well use a Vorta as that would have given the game away .
*NEWSFLASH : Absolutely nobody noticed that the Changelings aka the Founders must have made upgrades, adjustment, or alterations to the Jem'hadar DNAΔRNA code(s), because as all viewers can see Third Talak'Talan is a Jem'Hadar soldier, etc who do not have a Ketracel-white drug dependency &, or tube feeder.*
Skeletor got way more than he bargained for.
And his first officer landed in prison for murder 😳
The Jem’hadar killed the Bajoran colonists then stole their data pads- the absolute rotters!
the snarkiest non alpha Jem'Hadar of all
“You bring a list of murdered civilians to my Ops Center. You threaten the Alpha Quadrant with slavery and death. You insult my First Officer. Oh, I have chosen my words carefully, Jem’Hadar. Perhaps you should have done the same!”
The core difference, Quark, between humanity and Ferengi is that we've had that opportunity to learn where the darkness can lead us. Unlike the Ferengi who have latched onto their old ways and are uneager to change merely for material wealth, the Federation seeks to improve itself and its allies through peace and understanding.
So in essence, yes, we're nothing like the Ferengi. We're better for having learned the hard way, as opposed to a species who has yet to see what depths they'll go to for a quick strip of latnium.
But then Rom becomes Grand Nagus, and the Ferengi presumably start to change. And they still never had slavery.
@@danieldickson8591 Worst plot point star trek ever ran with and single-handedly ruined the ferengi after it.
It's almost a blessing in disguise that no legitimate star trek series has gone past the dominion war era.
@@Archedgarno, tons of legitimate Star Trek shows have continued onwards and even specifically visited Ferenginar. Your hypersensitivity doesn't somehow mean you aren't wrong.
@@kaicreech7336 Feel free to throw your tantrums but reality does not bend to your propaganda.
@@Archedgar I'm sorry, I didn't mean to trigger you! I know the fact that so many Star Trek shows are both canonical and extremely popular with both trekkies normal audiences must be really frustrating. Hopefully you'll get through this and learn to move on.
The Dominion is 100% justified here. The wormhole anomaly should have had restricted access until an agreement could be hammered out that both sides found reasonable instead of just going FUCK IT and sending a bunch of assholes to do as they please.
They were wrong.
The Dominions didn't even anounce themselves for any agreement. They immidiately slaughtered everyone who came through the Wormhole and then made the ridiculous and false claim to the entire Quadrant.
For all the Federation knew about the Dominion they stayed away from their Borders. But you can't stay away when the Dipshits claim "Well actually the entire Quadrant is ours."
Agreed. The Federation should have then delegated the Grand Nagus to take charge by negotiating trade agreements. There is some possibility the Dominion would have agreed to some limited trade in exchange for exploration passage to some extent. Instead, the Federation were brutal uncivilized monsters who waged war.
The wormhole wasn't in Dominion territory, so they weren't justified at all. It's the equivalent of China claiming the right to bar passage through the Suez canal.
@@VolrinSeth Incorrect but let's roll with it; The federation knowingly violated dominion territory even after being told in no uncertain terms to GTFO. Wormhole or not, that's 100% on the feds.
@@Archedgar You dont get to blindly assert I am incorrect. In which episode, preceding this one, did thr Dominion comminicate their territory to the Fed or Bajor?
Great episode! New powerful enemy!
this shows how little they thought of the federation as a threat.
they sent a 3rd to the station. not a first. a 3rd.
"we don't need to send a leader. you get a junior officer."
3:54 and so the Dominion was alerted in the dangers of humanity
Yeah, thanks, Quark. Glad you got that off your chest.
I hear they fought well for a spiritual people: "SUFFERING IS OUR PRAYER, IN BATTLE HE OFFERS US REDEMPTION! DEATH TO THE XENO! THE HERETICS! THE MUTANTS!
That's a bunch of really useful superpowers that they never have again.
Quark is wrong about Ferengi being better than humans. They're still greedy, acquisitive and interested only in profit. And during the time this episode originally aired, they didn't even allow women to wear clothes or earn profit.
Sounds to me like the Ferengi are better than humans. XD
Why should they?
Alright, in this instance, the federation was absolutely in the wrong. The dominion had already explored that area and laid claim to it. The federation wasn’t charting an undiscovered new quadrant, it was mindlessly running through the territory of a sovereign power.
The Federation didnt do anything wrong.
They sent in Recon teams through the Wormhole. The Bajorans did the colonizing but even that isnt wrong. They did know about the Dominion, but from what they gathered they were nowhere near the Dominions actual Borders. The Dominion just laid claim to the entire Quadrant, which is ridiculous and a lie.
Then instead of sending the Colonists etc. Home, dispatching a Jem'Hadar to drop off a Map saying "look, these are our Borders. Stay away", they immidiately slaughtered everyone without any form of warning. And that my Friend is an act of War.
If someone you don't know sends armed troops into your home, lays claim to your property and tells you to get out so that they can explore the homes nearby to claim them as well... that's called invasion, which is an act of war. The Dominion response while harsh well beyond need was still justified.
@@Deepingmind
So you commented and just didn't bother to read anything?
The Dominions Respone was not justified, not even close. Like mentioned the Planets where they mass murdered everyone weren't even in their actual territory.
To give you an equally simple analogy: Imagine a couple houses in your street are vacant and for some deluded reason you lay claim to them all. On top of that you do so without telling anyone. Now the Houses get sold and new people move in, which then all get slaughtered by you, because they were in your eyes effectively tresspasing on your property. But that wasn't actually your property, was it?
This is was the Dominion did and don't even try to tell me this was a justified behavior.
@@CedricBassman I read what was present, and responded to the relevant material involved with the episode and events. You're confusion on the material is by no means reflective to my point.
There is nothing to indicate that the wormhole is within Dominion borders at this point in time. They didn't even make the claim until now.
"for a spiritual people", said the man serving his gods.
Stay out of our space!
Federation then turns up with their then most powerful battleship to "investigate."
I call that intimidation, so they deserved a war tbh.
They didn't enter Dominion space, the Dominion simply attacked them for entering the wormhole.
@@manticore4952 I suggest you rewatch the episode "the Jem Hadar."
A Jem Hadar hands Kira a padd saying here's the colonies destroyed for violation of Dominion space, similar to the Gorn in TOS.
Instead of the Federation being more apologetic for not knowing they send in a heavily armed Starship along with runabouts.
@@stewartmcminn7773
Yeah and DS9 made more sense.
They didn't know they were intruders, especially since the Dominions rather ridiculous claim over the entire Quadrant seemed exactly that, ridiculous. Not even the Borg manage to control an entire Quadrant.
And they could've easily sent them all back, the Colonists didnt know any better. Instead they slaughtered everyone without warning which in itself is an act of War.
@@CedricBassman They didn't explicitly claim all of the Gamma Quadrant, just the area around where the wormhole opened. But they are a 2000+ year old empire so they are pretty big.
@@stewartmcminn7773 : A Jem Hadar hands Kira a padd saying here's the colonies destroyed for violation of Dominion space, similar to the Gorn in TOS.
Instead of the Federation being more apologetic for not knowing they send in a heavily armed Starship along with runabouts."
Except that:
A. You can't retro-actively claim stuff. They never communicated with the Federation of Bajor before this incident.
B. They kidnapped Sisko for a crime he couldn't possibly be aware of and planned to keep him indefintitely.
Fair enough Quark, however, in Ferengi society women are subjugated and denied basic individual freedom. Ferengi within glass Dominion security barriers shouldn’t throw stones!
2:00 Jadzia is a tad bit aggressive here. Sure , the Dominion is a despotic , oppressive empire, but they still warned the AQ powers to not violate their territory.
The Dominion doesn't control the entire GQ, therefore simply coming through the wormhole wasn't violating anything. This guy was just sabre rattling.
Except they hadn't told the AQ that they claimed the wormhole or New Bajor.
@@redpillfreedom6692 and THAT was Jadzia's point ... their territory wasn't the ENTIRE quadrant.
EVERY STAR TREK. SERIES HAS IT'S OWN STYLE&FEEL 2 IT. THAT'S Y THEY R SO GOOD 2 WATCH&ENJOY👽👽👽
I've always wondered WHY the Dominion wouldn't just place a beacon that was properly shielded on "their" side of the Wormhole to deter outsiders. A simple map of the quadrant showing the territory they claimed as theirs would have deterred the Federation at minimum. If they had simply given some indicator that the territory was theirs, Starfleet would have avoided it or sought diplomacy/ trade at minimum. Establishing some form of communication between the 2 factions would have nipped so many problems early on.
Because the founders would be revealing their existence by doing that. It's much smarter to lurk and observe.
And The founders have no interest in cultural exchange with filthy solids
To make a show of force. The Dominion probably didn't know about the wormhole's existence until ships started pouring through, or if they did know, they didn't care.
Perhaps they were even testing response times to ships going missing. If you know your enemy takes weeks to come looking, then you know they're too far away to do anything about it right away.
Well honestly putting beacons like that is more a sign of hostility. It's like having "keep out, no tresspasing signs" on a fenced border. Dominion worlds actually seemed hands-off where they didn't have space stations or starbases occupying those worlds. They let the natives run their own show as long as galactic conquest was not on their agenda. So it's a bit of twist of irony that Federation worlds are in fact under the tight fist of the Federation while in the Dominion it is relaxed.
From the perspective of the Dominion, any solids not living under the Dominion were a threat.
@@oldtwinsna8347 Those No Trespassing signs aren't signs of hostility at all. They're literally markers on a property line. They're essentially just a more visible method of displaying property lines.
Get em Quark!
He is the slayer of Klingons
Quark has a valid point
First Ometaklan (sp?) was my favorite Jem'Hadar.
Good points by Quark.
☮
The federation was the aggressor. They were asked to stay out of someone else's territory and they were to prideful to listen.
There is no indication that anyone has alerted the Federation to the Dominon claiming these territories.
I didn't know that Mike Pence once commanded a Galaxy class starship.
Its pretty crazy how they just massacred like tens of thousands of Bajorans at New Bajor. Great first appearance of the Jem'Hadar.
Nice to see the mix of the G5 and the G6-uniforms. Shortly after, DS9 got the G7-uniform (all grayish)
The Star Trek approach: make a terrifying and formidable foe, then slowly wussify them as time goes on by having the plucky Federation beat them out in almost every situation.
Not true. In this series they also had help from the Klingons, had to bring in the Romulans and get help from the Cardassian resistance in the end.
That's not what happened though. The Jem'hadar weren't pussified. The actual BS was the writers suddenly making the wormhole useless except for 'the good guys'. The Dominion had only a tiny fraction of its strength after the writers went full deus ex machina so it was 'the Dominion' that got nerfed rather than the Jem'hadar. You are right but for the wrong reasons.
That 'wissification' is the Federations advantage. Its huge amount of effort devoted to scientific research. The Jem'Hadar/ Dominion screwed up in this scene so bad. They showed off their tech superiority. In a way that the Federation could monitor and record what happened. Every nerfing of the Dominion tech advantage was earned over the course of seasons.
Quark: Ferengi don't have slavery.
Meanwhile, on Ferenginar, females who earn profit are punished by being sold into indentured servitude, probably for the rest of their lives, effectively a form of slavery.
I wonder what would Jem'Hadar say if they had met the Hirogen or Species 8472. Even they would run back to their gods the Founders. Especially after seeing a Species 8472.
klingons, jemhadar, the hunters who hunted tosk, nd hirogen should either have a big war or a warrior race alliance
Jem Hadar against borg or species 8472 would have been really interesting it's too bad that voyager was so isolated, I wouldn't have minded seeing a jem Hadar there, but who knows theirs always future stories
Strictly speaking, the Dominion and Jem'hadar are correct. If the territory is claimed and the claimant doesn't want you inside their borders, you should stay out.
It goes back to how Eddington told Sisko that the Federation is just like the Borg, only that the Borg at least telling you you're going to be assimilated. The same case can be made here. The Dominion did NOT WANT the Federation coming onto their turf, they had zero interest in getting to know one another and had no reason to trust, nor wanted to build trust. They simply did not want to be assimilated. No difference than a reaction to what the Federation reacted to the Borg.
But if you don't make it clear, before hand, what is or isn't your territory, you have no right to complain.
If the Pakleds "claim" every uninhabited planet in the universe as theirs, does the Federation have to cease all exploration to avoid violating their "territorial sovereignty"? Of course not. You have to actually have people, bases, equipment, ANYTHING on a planet before it can be called yours, along with the surrounding space. The Federation didn't encounter a single Dominion representative until this point, the planets were clearly uninhabited rocks far away from actual Dominion space.
@@dswrabkln4900 It's not quite the same thing. If instead of the Gamma Quadrant, the wormhole opened into the middle of Romulan Space, you think the Federation would pop in and be like "nah it's cool we're here cuz the wormhole let us?"
But it didnt open in Dominion space, it opened outside of it as evidenced by numerous independent species contacted
Given that no other Vorta could use telekinetic energy blasts, I would surmise that this was a temporary ‘weapon’ for the purposes of escaping.
Quark gave Sisko the speech before doing what he asked😂
dax we will expore the gamma quad even if it means taking the whole alpha quad to war really smart
That's not the point she's making. She making the point that kidnapping Sisko is not going to compell the Federation to do listen to what the Dominion demands.
Cress Williams played the best jem hadar
To be honest if the wormhole ends in Dominon space they had every right to remove the ships and colony.
But it doesn't - it took months for the Federation to know that the Dominon existed and even longer for them to know what it was.
It is more likely that the Dominion has no border. It has many vassal states and apparently has no competition.
@florianschneider3982 agreed. I still think I would view the Alpha quadrant vessels are invaders. Made for great TV
The vorta was. Nice 🙂🙂🙂 who was the actress ?
The Vorta never used that energy blast ever again
Wow Cress Williams play a alien in Star trek , came a long way
Kira must’ve really calmed down, seeing as she didn’t vaporize the dominion vessel.
3rd? What happened to the 1st and 2nd?
Quark makes valid points.
It sounds like an insult, but for a jem hadar to say someone fought well is quite a compliment, even if it's accompanied by a jab at the bajoran faith. The Jem Hadar actually do respect those who are brave enough to stand up to them, especially if they put up a good fight
Quark boasts about Ferengi never having slavery.
*cough*TNG 'Rascals'*cough*
It's a shame the writers created a bit of a problem for themselves early on with all the insane abilities they have the vorta and the jem hadar. If the Federation had fought THIS Dominion in pretty sure they'd have lost in a few days!
On getting the intel that the Dominion out classed them in some ways the Federation did what it does best. Science. I really like how the Dominion start with a tech advantage but the Federation closes the tactical gap over the course of seasons.
Quark is the best of all the stark trek charachers
Could you somehow do an edit of the initial episodes showing sisko’s rise to emissary?
THE FATE OF THE SISKO
Kinda like the game of thrones edits
I was always a fan of the jem'hadar. I'm kinda sad, the borg always get to come back, but never the jem'hadar.
Who played as the jem hadar in this scene?
BLACK LIGHTNING😎😎😎
Along with the Cardassians, a more (neutral cause I'm biased towards Romulans, being Latino) advanced and lethal adversary, only bested by the Borg (mostly pre-"Voyager").
It was unfortunate he did not stay as a perm cast member. He would ask say and ask things that the Vorta would not.
Thanks. Still not backing down though Victor Krum. Not because I’m a racist or anything. But because I’m simply better at everything compared to you. Dictatorship vs dictatorship. Didn’t expect that did you? Important thing about being a democracy is to only look like one so the normies don’t get scared. Everything gets taken care of behind closed doors. We don’t do red carpets and applause like the bald Eagles. Our quality of work speaks for itself
Gammas are something...
Remember when Star Trek didn't suck? pepperidge farm remembers.
He didn't have the typicaly Ketracel WHITE tubing... it was black. I guess they hadn't decided on it at that point.
well the tube just wasn't transparent
It always irritates me to be reminded that for one just episode, Star Fleet defenses didn’t work on Jem Hadar tech and the Vorta had magical powers.
Fun fact and spoiler alert, the word Odyssey comes from the Greek word odýsseia which means "a journey filled with troubles."
"If you think detaining commander sisko will stop us from exploring the Gamma Quadrant."
Uh, Dax? It's not your territory. It's their territory, and you're basically still in first contact protocol.
Dax was also out of line. She was not a command officer and not even an acting command officer. She had no authority to speak on behalf of the Federation for a statement of that magnitude to an emissary of a foreign power on official business.
I wonder if the Dominion And the Borg crossed paths yet... Jem Hadar Borg drones....
legit unstoppable
You don't need deflectors you haven't seen before, I just thought that a tractor beam couldn't lock onto shields in the first place.
he said deflectors ... not deflector shields. it is entirely possible (and likely, to be honest) that the ship's hull itself was deflecting the tractor beam.
“Are you sure that’s wise?” Then the big KaBOOM! 💥 Whole Galaxy Class Fk-ed off by a kamikaze Jem-hadar! 🤦♂️
So all the Federation had to do to avoid the entire Dominion War was stay on their side of the wormhole? Seems like an easy way to avoid a war that killed billions of Alpha Quadrant people.
They did keep to their own side. The dominion invaded anyway.
I don't think it is quite that simple. Untill this episode they had had no official contact with the Dominion. The Dominion could have told the Bajorans to leave their planet but instead they destroyed the colony. I think war was almost inevitable.
The Dominion would of invaded anyway. The Alpha Quadrant was in need of Order afterall
No, not only was the Dominion always going to invaded but they also NEVER made any attempts at diplomacy before killing civilians.
@@Gothic7876 not neccesarily, the final straw was when the cardassian-romulan attempted to destroy the former founders homeworld.
4:14 quark is forgetting that the ferengi were still doing all of these things until a few years ago while the humans in this setting stopped that nonsense hundreds of years ago.
Now imagine if the odyssey went alone with no help
Theyd not even got too sisqo at all and still would have been destroyed
Badass speech from Quark......
Ferengi probably have better healthcare.
Technically half of Ferengi are slaves, their female half. But that still doesn’t exclude them from any examples in humanity’s past 😕 hell if Star Trek were taking place during Shakespeare’s time, that is to say even today’s form of the English language, all the actors portraying characters both male and female would be reserved only for men