BEST CARDS IN TIVIT WITH STATISTICS
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- čas přidán 14. 08. 2023
- What are the best cards for Tivit? Well in this video I have some statistics from tournament results and decks different winrate. Let's look what cards from decks with better winrate than average have.
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I would like to see Yuriko
Love this data visualization, thanks for these videos! Can't wait for the sample data sizes to get bigger for a better representation of these analyses
Thank you!
Nice! Within one minute of upload, I'm in :D
Dihada. Don’t let Mardu summer pass you by!
Love that you're getting into more of the statistics. As someone who consumes your content mostly through audio, it would be great if you mentioned each card you're talking about
I can focus on doing that more. Make sure you understand even if you don't watch the video just listen.
Like the deep dive sir - keep it up
No mater what commander you show with this format of presentation next, I will watch them all!!!
Fun vid. The new Eldraine tutor is looking pretty sweet for Tivit. Tayam would be fun to see, probably the commander with the most variance in cards.
Second to none..Mons is the one to always come through. Thanks for all your encouragement and enthusiasm over the years!
Thank you that means a lot :)
Thx for doing my favorite colors!
Again thank you for not using clickbaity thumbnails!
When you do these you should also make a decklist and link it to the statically best list would/could be. Little easier to keep up with everything
Kinda defeats the purpose of watching the video tho right?
I can link this: edhtop16.com/?tourney_filter__size__%24gte=64&tourney_filter__dateCreated__%24gte=1659422080&colorID=null
The site I got them form.
Doing atraxa would be interesting tbh because of how unsolved the deck currently is.
Thx for the content
Might have been covered but in future you might want to adjust data based on release date, a deck that didnt have Lotho 2 months ago dosnt really tellcus anything since it wasnt printed yet. But very cool concept for video, look forward to seeing more
Cool hypotheses testing!
Thanks.
keep going with this tutorial/statistics/deck tech/...
Love it, best cards for sisay please
I sense a series! Let’s go 🎉
It is a series. I am getting so many questions right now. So much to try and make videos of.
Lotho is low key the best card from LOTR. That card has pushed me ahead so many times and bought me the ramp to win several turns early. Hot take, Lotho is better than Orcish Bowmaster.
its not even lowkey, lotho has definitely caught on. atraxa players (myself included) are playing finale and invasion now JUST to tutor lotho to the field
@@jeef16 also am an Atraxa player.
❤ the video! Maybe video on Sisay?
Thank you! Yes I am doing all commanders and eventually I will get to sisay. Soon sisay I think actually.
@@cedhtv Thank you so much! You an absolute legend for the cEDH community!
I know this is a high level consideration for these cards, but did you scrub decklists from the sample prior to the printing of any specific card? I assume so, but just want to be sure 😅
Also how exactly does Timetwister/Windfall correlate with Notion Thief? Thats a big one for me with Tivit right now. Thanks for doing this vid!
Fascinating stuff! My suggestion would be to begin with cards that are included in almost all decks, then work your way down, as the analysis based on win rate is more illuminating when discussing marginal cards (i.e. those that are not auto-includes).
Could you do an analysis of deck performance based on the number of each card type? For example, decks with fewer than 10 artifacts win more frequently; decks with five or more enchantments win less frequently; decks with fewer than 13 creatures win more frequently, etc.
For future episodes, it might be interesting to compare the diversity of the decks you analyze. Some commanders have a greater diversity of card selection than others - it would be interesting to see which archetypes have a solid consensus and which have larger variance in card selection.
1) ... Y..e .s... But. I will have to think about how in a good way so I don't overwork. The answer is yes I don't just see a good method of doing that ATM. But I think try and figure that out.
2) YES! That one I have been thinking about. I have a small idea to look at some decks and see what cards the one play that the other don't and vice versa. Then look at vinrate and ETC. You can dig deeper into that. I think I will apply this idea that I just said. And build on that more as I go. So to your seconds question. It is in progress kinda.
@@cedhtv Thanks for your reply. I really appreciate all the work you put in to create this S-tier content.
I would LOVE to se a Toxrill or tana tymna video
Btw I'd love if you covered Vadrik again. He got new toys in the Lord of the Rings set, and I'm positive the Shroud providing aura is not good for the deck!
interesting video, I think an important thing to include is correlation between cards as well. If X card is played, how often do we see Y card? tivit is a great deck because of the different builds people are coming up with. I'm playing a lot more staxy permanents like cage, cursed totem, blind obedience, weathered runestone (awesome card in the current meta with high coverage of different strategies), containment priest, aven mindcensor, lavinia, etc, by cutting splashy spells like meme betrayal, windfall, and counterbalance to fit more control cards in. in the current metagame, counterspells are starting to lose power as people play more value/combo creatures. if something like a kinna, sisay, tayam, etc hits the board, I want to be able to manage it without losing my stack-based interaction
Can you do a video on the new card kellan the fae-blooded? It feels like the ultimate noob trap card since it makes most equipment searchable and can search some stax pieces.
Nice vid! What about percentage of Mindbreak Trap; Urza, Lord High Artificer and Gandalf the White?
Seconded for Gandalf 😅
What's the inclusion of the ranger captain at the higher win% ?
Wonder if that changes with amount of targets available to tutor?
Also I'm running ad naus and peer so i guess I'm very much into the minority with my deck.
Keep up the great work 👍
Sorry. I don't have accses to that data in a easy form anymore.
I wonder how big the difference is for tutors for timesieve. Like muddle the mixture. Will higher winrates include more tutors for it? Even if they could be dead cards at some point. There are 3 transmute cards for timesieve.. i could opt to include them all cuz they progess to the main plan. However u thin out your deck with value or interaction pieces. So is there a noticeable difference in the number of tutors?
Keep the sample size large. Everyone knows that the larger the sample size, the more accurate representation of the data.
It would be interesting to do the "unsolved" decks. Or the ones with multiple popular variants. Kenrith, Omnath, Najeela, Sisay, Thrasios/Vial, Urza.
It might be interesting to compare a hypothetical deck list created by just directly taking the cards from the over 26% group with the highest play percentage and then comparing the list with say the 5 best performing actual decks.
I can showcase some decks with the highest winrate.
ob nixiles the new storm cedh deck i would like to see
Hi mons! Curious about the numbers on gilded drake and touch the spirit realm?
I second the question on Gilded Drake. TtSR is likely far higher for the 60% WR group; including it probably correlates with a more comprehensive understanding of the meta
Played togheter something like 8 %. 2% played by the higher winrate. So don't see mych play togheter. Gilded drake alone is played 30% in the HIGH winrate group and 25% in the low winrate group. So it seams like both group play it a bunch. Touch the Spirit Realm looked at alone was played 16% in both groups. So the cards seams to be played a bit. same amount in both groups.
For the 40% winrate decks versus the lower winrate decks, were there any significant changes to the mana base in terms of lands and mana rocks?
I haven't looked. Others have asked this to. I will try and look into it. When I make my kriik video. I will try and answer this for Tivit aswell.
Hi Mons! what do you think about Ad Naus in Tivit? ^^
Worth Playing or not?
Very strong card Obv, but I don't think Tivit really needs it...
I think more people should play it. Just get a really low CMC curve in general. Dig untill time seieve and WIN!
When you look back, do you keep in mind that you register decks only with the same available sets?
OBM and Lotho are amazing, but just werent available before LOTR!!
Please do a card review on Agatha’s Soul Cauldron
I am actually still thinking about that on. Sisay looks at with big eyes.
Sisay, westherlight captain or Krark/Sakashima would be great!
I have plans to do sisay eventually.
I would love to see Zur
Eventually I will get to him
Can you run the stats on the lands used in the high win rate decks?
Yes. But if we are also looking into that it will be a really long video.
I presume it is impossible to do using what you’re using without making some sort of a scrapper (or A LOT of manual work), but I feel that it would be more interesting rather to look at P(win | card included) rather than P(card inclusion | win rate > X). In non math terms, to see if including a specific card increases or decreases one’s win rate (there is an obvious confounding of all other cards they also include, but that’s a next issue). There certainly IS enough data to obtain this from this database, I’m just not sure how easily accessible it is.
I am not sure about what kind of data you want to se there. Can you explain more about: P(win | card included) and P(card inclusion | win rate > X).
@@cedhtv Currently you condition on the winrate (that's the thing after |) and estimate the probability that a card is included (thing before the
), i.e. in plain words, you split your data based on winrate being >x or
Oh. That is simple to answer. or calculat I think. For example I can split the groups like this. ! group has underworld breach in it. The other dosen't. What is the winrate difference between them.
Is that what your asking?
And then do that with card by card?
I don't think I have a good idea as of now to calculat that. But just thinking about it in my mind It should not be that hard. I just need to sit down and calculat it on it for a while and I can get answer to you in a day or 2.
If this was the method you waned is there a card you want me to look at?
Like say A card and I can come back to you with an answer of the kinda winrate decks have with that card.
Or have I missunderstand your question?
Do you think the one ring is an auto include in Kriik?
Good question. I think it could be.
I would have liked to have you say that including Wheels at all is still debatable in the cedh realm. You draw 7 cards, but your opponents collectively draw 21 cards and therefore going for the win after the "draw 7" becomes so much harder. When you show the two wheels being played heavily, i just felt this kinda might trick people into playing wheels at all. I myself exclude all wheel effects for all my decks in cedh, since i consider them bad.
Oh I agree I never play wheels. Made a video about it. But this is not my deck and I can be wrong about wheels.
How do you get the data to do this?
I tried doing something like this using moxfield to add the cards but it has a 1000 card limit.
Excel. You can add as much as you want in there.
Thrasios Dargo pls!!!
Next time Yuriko ❤
That one is on my mind.
would like to see tymna + sakashima/malcolm
adding it my list.
Have you’ve updated your sisay list?
No. Not at all. I am kinda happy with it as it is. The one of 10 that I play. and I have had so much focus on building and figuring out other builds.
I think Winotas problem is not the card choices.
It’s often played by new players and is heavily targeted. Both will lower the winrate
I actually think so to. But doing to resurch like this will also prove that point. That it dosen't really matter what cards you play.
Tayam!
Second for Tayam next! Placement lists are very different from one another right now
Tayam will be after winota.
Hey, could you figure out the numbers for:
- Mox diamond inclusion
- Land count
- Mana rock count
Yes I can look into that. I won't have an answer for a while tho.
@@cedhtv That's ok :) If the data is too hard to get don't worry.
To give a bit more context.
Mox Diamond: I have seen a trend for droping mox diamond lately. I would like to see if it has had any effects on the performance (it could be a new thing, so I would not be surprised if 100% decks run it)
Lands: I have seen some people going to 27 lands. It would be interesting to see if there is any coloration (I'm personally a believer in 29)
Rocks: Just curious.
How many counter spells are the winningest deck running
I an look into that.
I'm curious how Monumental Corruption would perform as a second Ad Nauseum
you need quite lot of artifacts for that one.
@@cedhtv my thought process though is that since tivit makes you artifacts and thats the whole game plan along with mana rocks being a staple wouldn't it perform at least decently? I mean its usually drawing you roughly 10 cards, lots of times more, which of course isn't anything insane but its still ok
What about urza and hullbreaker horror?
Inside Tivit or With urza as commander?
@@cedhtvboth in the 99 of tivit
What's the win rate for Hullbreaker Horror?
I don't know how many games it wins for Tivit. But I did take a look at how many decks with winrate 26% or more play it: 16 %
And 25 and lower it is being included 24,1%. SO decks with lower winrate play it more. Decks with higher winrate play it less. Is there anything different you waned to see ? :)
Thanks. That answers my question.
statistics on the ring might not be accurate with as new as it is. Most tivit lists are on the ring but because its been out for like a month that wont be represented in all the deckilsts on top16, cus it just tracks everything
This is correct!
Sorry if this has been said before but conversion isn't win rate, it's top 16 appearances / population.
Also? I challenge you to do this for tayam and join me in the biggest headache of deckbuding you'll ever see.
I am working on Kriik now. But I can do Tayam afterwards.
Turbo k'rrik vs mid range k'rrik
Hey whats a good non 5 color Commander for cedh thats both good and a lil rare
Please get in touch with tourney grinders of K’rrik before you make the video. Thank you.