Accident Review TBM 965DM Depressurization Disaster
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
- Accident Review TBM 965DM Depressurization Disaster
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FlyWire is about exploring flight and the freedom this incredible experience brings us on a personal level. Flying has always captured the imagination and excitement of living life to its fullest. Hi, I'm Scott Perdue. In a former life I flew the F-4 and F-15E, more recently I retired from a major airline. I've written for several aviation magazines over the years, was a consultant for RAND, the USAF, Navy, NASA as well as few others, wrote a military thriller- 'Pale Moon Rising' (still on Kindle). But mostly I like flying, or teaching flying. Some of the most fun I had was with Tom Gresham on a TV show called 'Wings to Adventure". We flew lots of different airplanes all over the country. Now with FlyWire I want to showcase the fun in flying, share the joy and freedom of flight and explore the world with you. Make sure you subscribe if you want to go along for the ride!
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Please God someone straighten those pictures on the wall! My OCD I running on overload! Great channel!!
What pictures? 😂
Study the positions carefully. They are spelling out a message.
I wouldn't have even noticed if you didn't mention it 😳
It’s called slamming the door and wind
no
Guy was a respected lawyer of 20+ years in the buffalo area that was on his way back home from picking up his niece. RIP Stephen Barnes.
This had to be gut wrenching for the controller, It's like he knew the pilot was "Not really awake"...
@@masterspacetime2826 So you got diarrhoea in the air not very nice I agree but how does that entitle you to belittle the comment about the controller?
@@masterspacetime2826 Talk about not thinking beforehand. If you are a pilot, let us all hope you have expanded your knowledge of flight planning.😉
@@masterspacetime2826 Are you normally this callous, or do you just save that for selected occasions?
Thanks Scott, sounds very plausible.. I knew someone who experienced something very similar in a brand new Turbo Commander and ended up severely over-stressing the airframe when he came too at about 10,000 ft in a high speed dive.
I had a similar gradual loss of pressurization in a P-Baron but was alerted on climb when the Cabin alt above 12,000ft light came on at about 14,000ft.
Many years ago I prototyped up a cabin altitude alert that would turn on a light and give an audible voice warning. I later gave up on the STC process due to FAA bureaucratic challenges. Perhaps it's worth revisiting that and seeing if anyone is producing a similar product today.
Something for non pressurized aircraft pilots to consider is loss of supplemental O2 supply. I've had O2 system regulators gradually freeze in a T310R and a Seneca on climb into sub-zero temps.
Another time in when I was in the right seat with a ATP friend in his T210, after a few mins at FL 230, he said he was feeling ill and asked me to take over. He turned up the O2 flow in his mask and a few min later passed out against the window. I checked his O2 flow and it was reading '0'. When I traced the tube, and it turned out that when he was messing with his Jepp Case he sat on the tube and pinched it shut. When he would lean right in the seat to check the flow it was normal but when he sat upright the tube would pinch. As he was getting intermittent O2 in the climb he did not have much useful consciousness once leveling at 23,000. We had been through high-altitude training in a Chamber, but as he was getting intermittent flow, the symptoms were also intermittent and he failed to recognize it before he passed out.
Jack, thanks for watching…. Excellent comments and stories!!
@@FlyWirescottperdue Great public service you and Juan are doing, and great forum to share knowledge, insights and experience.
Perhaps you could do it without an STC? Using an absolute pressure sensor, the device could be completely separate from the aircraft. Blink some bright LEDs on the device itself and plug it into an un-used comm port for the audio? This would also have the advantage of working in any model of plane.
Thanks for sharing that story. I'm always eager to learn from the experiences of others.
@@evanandersen4895 Thanks, and you are right. That's basically what I used. Years ago it took a about 5 watts to run the pressure transducer and comparator circuit. it also should be adjustable as some pressurized piston aircraft can maintain 12,500 ft cabin at max certified altitude so you are on Supplemental O2 at some altitudes and it's handy to be able to set override the alert altitude, that required a display and microprocessor so the power consumption was was high enough that battery operation was not really desirable. Not good if your battery dies so wired seemed like the best option, but with lithium batteries and lower power electronics today a battery unit might make more sense.
Emergency descent very easy to do in TBM 850. Select Altitude, FLC button, Set Airspeeed to 266KIAS. The autopilot will hold VNE until safe altitude is established. We practice this at simcom. TBM with latest G1000 update have automatic emergency descent in when cabin pressure is lost.
You should listen to Kalita 66 In the old Lear 20 series! The captain somehow stayed awake while copilot was out. With cabin alt beeping in background. Incredible!
Not putting your current cabin altitude into your instrument scan can prove to be a fatal mistake.
I just happened to land on you channel, and am so glad I did! It looks like you've got lots of great content that is ideal for an Av-geek like myself. I'm currently recovering from surgery, so I'm excited to find a new source of aviation videos. Thanks!
Thanks Thomas, I appreciate that! Go for it!
100% agree with you as usual, well presented as always. This was not a head scratcher but it always helps to hear it from an authority on the matter.
Scott, I love spending time with your channel. Reading the comments alone are worth spending time with. Many experienced aviators commenting here offering additional information concerning the hostile environment of operating aircraft at FL-18 and above. Gleaning the facts from your presentation, hypoxia appears to be a primary suspect contribution to this tragedy. Slow depressurization and it's effect does have tell-tails however knowing personal tell-tails varies from person to person. My teeth start tingling is my first indicator of low oxygen deprovision. Something as simple as a $20.00 finger oximeter with alarm might be a recommendation. Another simple gadget to add to the flight bag???
As a very high time airline captain, (and also having experienced a depressurisation in the very early ‘90’s), I like your analysis, makes total sense to me.
As a very low time private pilot, (never having experienced any kind of emergency), I like you analysis of his analysis.
Love your back drop, Scott. Reminds me of the office on base when reheat would go boom, and rattle the walls.
I like that John!
May need to wire in an Oximeter with bells and whistles to sound an alarm. If you don't people will feel symptom and possibly make excuses to talk themselves out of it.
I was taught to use the moons of your fingernails, when they start turning blue you know.
Hi have you ever worn an OXYMETER ? In flight? You might be surprised, even on a commercial flight But a NIGHT FLIGHT , WILL SURPRISE THE HELL OUT YOU !
By chance as a SCUBA DIVER, I was able to go in a COMPRESSION CHAMBER, TO SHOW YOU JUST WHAT CAN HAPPEN TO YOU ! ! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
At first I thought that the 960DM was some new model of TBM lol. "Wow, they are on 960 already!"
Clear, concise, spot on. 👍
Great analysis. Thanks for the video. I wonder if the controller knew what was going on. Would it have helped for him to say "put your oxygen mask on?"
He definitely suspected something didn't he... He specifically asked if everything was ok.
Excellent explanation.
Thanks, Scott for your storytelling! You are a great man! I fly a piper m600 with garmin g3000, I always check cabin altitude . But there's a feature installed that will descend automatically unless pilot responds that everything is ok. In case cabin alt is higher than 14000 feet.
That's actually a cool idea. Why don't all of the autopilots descend if the cabin altitude is too high with no interaction from the pilot.
Thanks for the explanation, these accidents and the root coarse are sneaky and hard to recognise.
There is no shame having that ox mask to early used or for no reason.
Better safe than sorry
The 850 is certified to FL310, and they typically fly there for better fuel burn. The pressurization on the 850 is manual, and does not work if not set. I believe it was the 900 where it started being automated. I live between KROC and KBUF, this is the second TBM we lost this way! If it was indeed hypoxia anyway, one for sure. Very sad. RIP --gary
Great review, such tragic loss of life though!
Yes indeed... are you sure you beat the Gryder Curse?
@@FlyWirescottperdue
Stay tuned for next weeks video - HA!
I've seen a few TBM flight videos where they've mentioned that it can be quite easy to forget to monitor the pressurization system because it's automatic and generally so good in this airplane.
The automatic pressurization is new, and was introduced as a result of a pressurization accident in a previous flight.
There is no alarm?
The number in the video title, 965DM, is the registration "N" number, this TBM was an 850 model. On this model there is an analog dial on the lower panel just above the center console. There are 2 rings, inner and outer. One reads actual cabin pressure, the other sets the cabin pressure via a small twist knob. It is not automatic, and I don't remember there being an alarm. I have a small 'blood Ox' meter (~$20) I wear around my neck. On older aircraft I put it on my finger at 10k feet. I used to use 12k when I was younger. I check it often just in case. I live between KROC and KBUF and this is the second TBM we have lost due to hypoxia. Or 1 for sure and 1 probable. He was a lawyer and a nice guy. RIP. --gary
The darker side of that "set auto" option on many switches these days.
Thanks and I find your videos insightful and of good value. Any chance we could have your background pictures in your office straightened out?
That F15 could use a frame too.
Post-Covid, I purchased a full time wearable Pulsox finger ring. It vibrates unpleasantly if your blood O2 gets below 88% (adjustable), or if heart rate gets below 50 BPM or above 120 BPM, (adjustable). It also records a file with O2 %, heart BPM, and motion, every 4 seconds, and can generate PDF and CSV sleep study graphs from those parameters. I wear it at night, as I tend to slow down gradually, ie slow hypoxia. Battery lasts 12-16 hours before charging. It looks like a slightly fat pinkie ring, and is comfortable to wear all day or all night. It would certainly help in a slow hypoxic aviation situation. Mine is from Wellue, around $170. More than I wanted to pay, but turned out to be well worth it. I tell people it's a disintegrator ray.
That is a great idea!
@@FlyWirescottperdue I've been using it nightly for 6 months, or when exerting during the day. The vibration alarm at 88% gives you plenty of warning, or you can change the setpoint if you want.
Great idea. I wondered if an oximeter would be useful at high altitudes.
@@toma5153 Absolutely. I spent on the fancy ring that records O2/heart/movement (ie sleep study) and vibrates if you are low, but a regular finger clip-on would be very helpful, unless you're too woozy to think to check it. The ring wakes you up when it vibrates. If you're getting up anywhere 10,000 feet, it would be advisable.
@Tom A there's a greek guy here on youtube who constantly flies his personal sr22 for business purposes, and he always wears an oximeter when flying
Thank you for the video.
Thanks!
Thank you Sir
I remember going to the altitude chamber, and an explosive depressurization is a pretty traumatic event.
The first time it was. After that it was just an annoyance.
The missed responses are like someone who is falling asleep, oh ya I'm fine, eventual fell asleep/get knocked out. Unless you have a headache you probably can't differentiate from being tired and low oxygen. I have had a hard time focusing while driving late at night and I can stop at the next exit to close my eyes, you get in that situation in a plane you have to still put the plane on the ground. Maybe he was familiar with tired driving and was focused on getting the plane on the ground and didn't think of loss of pressure. You would think there would be a cabin pressure meter or get yourself a vacuum pressure gauge with a too low-pressure mark.
Fell asleep or had a heart or stroke issue.
Falling asleep is my favourite guess. It explains the radio silence and there are quite a few examples of pilots falling asleep on autopilot and missing their TOD by many many miles. Waking up it would take a while to work out where you are and what is happening. An adrenaline burst would let you sound ok but in reality you would be disorientated for certain. You might then try to rescue the situation to avoid having to explain yourself so off the AP comes and the rest is history.
If he had a pressurisation issue at FL280 that knocked him out then I don't think he would have woken up again to make that call, still at FL280?
I have worked in situations where I have been extremely tired and it gets to a point where no amount of shaking yourself out of it makes any difference.
Love the videos Scott! You may want take a level to some of the picture frames :)
Thanks for the tip! I've got an idea for the next video... stay tuned!
Well done
thanks Scott, very informative and tragic at the same time. How could this have happened mechanically?
I've got my eye on TBM 940 with Safe Land feature. If I cack or pass out anyone can go forward and push the button and go back to their seat.
That guy guy mike was a topknoch pilot, its hard to believe ,!
Great video friend. Rip Amen 🙏.
Damn ivewarched this guy flying several times on CZcams , I'm a subscriber of his channel,,,,I can tell his voice, man that's BSD , when was this ?
Perfect use for the HomeSafe emergency autoland system!
An accident can sneak up on one, as judgment is the first thing to go, and gives no sign of leaving. Hypoxia, frostbite. and carbon monoxide are three such villains. Good point you made, thinking one's way around a problem is no substitute for training, especially if one is a slow thinker, like me.
Scott, you discuss having back up instruments in case of instrument failure in IMC. I have several backups such as those you mentioned. But, I do not think enough discussion is made about having one's autopilot configured with the heading bug on your present heading and your current altitude set up to take over with a quick switch to turn it "ON" when a pilot feels overloaded. Maybe Kobe's pilot could have done that, assuming the Sikorsky had an autopilot. Also, maybe N7022G could have done that at KMYF last week as well.
Bugging your heading is often dropped out. I prefer it that way. Some sort of GCAS for the autopilot.... the Garmin GFC500 and 600 have a version of that.
OK Scott …..let’s level the wings, I repeat level the wings on those picture frames …..we’re all getting vertigo 🤪!
i straightened the pictures when he wasn't looking
I am surprised the airplane didn’t break up at those speeds.
I am too… strong airplane!
In the Air Force I got training in the altitude chamber. Every pilot should attend an altitude chamber session.....maybe even every two years or so.
Those uneven pictures on the wall are driving me crazy !!!
I know your a nice person but your now disinvited to my house permanently.😂
Went through Aviation Physiology Training at MCAS EL Toro as a Helicopter Aircrew, got to do the Pressure Chamber, took us up to 10k FT, had us play "Patty Cake" to burn off the oxygen in our system after taking off our oxygen mask. I didn't do too well, I thought everything was going fine, then I heard my number called telling me to put on my mask, I heard the instructions, it felt like I was in a dream, I do remember feeling my head hit the table when I passed out, then the next thing I felt, was someone forcing my mask back on to my face, and breathing pure oxygen, I woke up immediately, and a bit confused for a second, and realized I had blacked out, I didn't have the usual systems before blacking out - Tunnel Vision etc., by the time I was aware, I was gone. Thank-you for this story. "Semper-Fi"
Why doesn't the plane have a warning system on the decompression slowly in a safety zone indicator buzzer should go off?
Great question, I was thinking the exact same thing. I would think in this day and age that any GA aircraft that can get up into the altitudes which can cause these types of problems would have a safety system which will alert the pilot, give them a certain amount of time to respond and then automatically send out out a distress signal as well as get the plane down into an altitude where the system can monitor whether the pilot has regained their senses or not. With the auto-land systems that are in place in some planes then they could get the plane safely on the ground. I recognize the drawbacks in terms of loss of control but what is a life worth?
@@deanwells2859 I think you could use a deinflated balloon not a flat balloon but a balloon with very little air a limp balloon. With decompression the balloon should inflate
As with juan, always great content
495 knots! And it did not disintegrate in the air? Pretty strong ✈️
Wonderful, I got zero notification on this.
Sorry you didn't... but I literally just posted it a few minutes ago. So, you are on top of things!
@@FlyWirescottperdue I will clarify I didn't get an audible, it was silently in the notifications whereas others get a jingle of sorts. Just a little feedback.
He was in an IFR flight plan and with radar contact. Loosing height is very easy by taking orbits (left or right) in coordination with radar or ask extra track miles. No need to do hand flying as extra track mile will do the trick. Hand flying such maneuvers, that is trying rapid descent in IFR can be very disorienting for many. This is assuming he lost control trying to expedite descent and not due to Hypoxia.
They should have aural warning for pressurisation failure in general aviation aircrafts.
What explains the recovery of the passenger emergency oxygen mask still inside its housing. This model plane has an automatic passenger mask actuation that functions at a cabin altitude between 13,000 ft and 14,000 ft.
I know some have thought about this, but DO NOT hold your breath in a decompression event!
That could very well be almost instantaneously fatal for you.
Thoughtful and considered. Thanks Scott. Sobering particularly flying my family around in our TBM700. A friend was v sadly killed in his TBM on a low vis ILS approach. I'd be grateful for your thoughts on that incident and what we can learn from it. Waiting for the atsb assessment seems an eternity. If able please let me know how to get the details to you. Many thanks.
Send me the tail number and any other details you have. You can find my email on my website: flywire.online
Thanks for asking for this. I try learn as much as possible from these. A lot of effort goes into these videos - and it benefits us pilots greatly.
I think a good, unobtrusive thing for ATC to ask is "What is your cabin altitude?"
kind of blown away by how many fatal accidents are happening in these single-engine turbo props . Seems like most of these are Part 91, could these be the modern day version of the doctor killer ? very sad particularly N79NX
Scary situation
Thanks for another great video, Scott. Are you going to the Alliance Airstream next weekend?
Do you mean the Alliance Airshow?
@@FlyWirescottperdue yes. Sorry for the mistake
Sad! So Sad, sad that there is no low oxygen or lowering slow pressure WARNING ALARM! Both audible and Red flashing lights inside the cabin and annunciator panel!
Is there no alarm in the cockpit for low pressure? Say, if cabin pressure gets below the pressure at 12,000' (or whatever is suitable) a warning is given?
usually there is, if you remember to set it
ATC should never ask "are you fine" they should say "oxygen oxygen".
AGREE!,
He didn't know he was hypoxic. He sounded ok.
yea where's the dual redundancy and if he was hypoxic why didn't he get warned before, why didn't the masks drop with the low cabin pressure?
Makes me think about trying to find an altitude chamber to see how I would react.
Do it! Excellent experience!
I recall a Cessna 337 flying mapping runs that disintegrated . it was determined that pilots oxygen was inadvertently filled with compressed air. The pilot was using supplemental oxygen and became hypoxic. Story was quite interesting.
Hi Scott, I’m a student pilot so thank you for all the informative videos. I am learning a lot. Do any of these planes have a low oxygen alarm? Or an alarm indicating a loss of pressurization? I feel like either one could indicate an incipient loss of oxygen and help a pilot recognize a hazardous cabin environment before it becomes lethal. Our cryogenic LNO2 storage rooms at work all have oxygen alarms to detect dangerous environments for this exact purpose.
Good on ya BigWalkin… keep flying! There are warning systems for pressurization. Doesn’t mean the pilot noticed them.
The pressurization on the 850 is also manual, they automated it starting with the 900 I believe. 940 for sure anyway. I have a $20 blood ox meter I wear around my neck. I start checking, when flying vintage aircraft anyway, at 10k and every 10 min or so. Used to be 12k when I was younger. I live between KROC and KBUF, this is the second TBM we lost due to hypoxia. The first one was a TBM 750. A NY to FL flight, they lost contact over PA and the airplane had a military escort to where it crashed into the ocean off the coast of FL. Both very sad situations. Fly safe!! --gary
I lost consciousness breathing 100% mask oxygen at night FL420 in a Sabre. Came to at F160 in an unusual attitude with speed steady at Mcdr .94. Three attempts to recover control.
Lucky these early fighters did not have an autopilot.
That first plane crash at Buffalo was Stephen Barnes formerly of the law firm "Cellino & Barnes" isn't it? All the details match.
I am thinking that a steep decent while you are Hypoxic may make you pass out sooner,but I cannot reconcile the dynamics.
Blood should reach your brain better,but you also react by auto lowering blood pressure...which wins? and can we take this
into account in ATC suspected hypoxia?
I wonder if the electrical fault or issue that caused the radios to stop working for a while also caused the pressurization to reset or turn off causing a slow pressure drop or even for that system to shutdown n not send alarms
6:07 Pilot sounds irritated, a bit angry. Really is sad ,in the end, that he was likely waking up to a nightmare for real. Thanks for the great detail.
Being irritable is the 1st signs of hypoxia by the time he realized something was wrong it could have been too late because he is falling asleep. In other words passing out.
nah he was just along for the ride.
Scary reminder that hypoxia symptoms are insidious and can vary substantially between individuals.
Great info, but I'm getting spatial disorientation from the the picture frames in the background!
A lot of phones and watches have baro pressure senses built in, and some allow an alarm to be set - they could act as a backup device.
Would be nice if the controller would have suggested a ox mask when he noticed the confusion.
I got nothin to say to Scott. That's my nickel in the grass.
I think it's one thing to have an exchange of ideas with Scott, but I'd have to feel I'm on very solid ground to declare a difference of opinion with him in matters of the air. (No pun intended.)
Thanks 77th. When I actually did/do accident investigation for real... you lay out the facts and then construct a theory that fits the facts. Then wring out the facts again to make sure you didn't overlook something. I'm far from perfect, but I do try to be careful and deliberate.
@@FlyWirescottperdue yes, you do. This is clear.
I thought these newer planes had software that corrected steep descents and over speed?
Was that of a NYC lawyer and his niece ? I remember that case .....Did the NTSB figure it out ? no possible evidence of it , after that crash......Just likely what happened. Poor guy if he came to, he had to be close to pulling off the wings.....These airplanes have a good "reputation".....They are loved by the pros that fly them.
Yes. Steve Barnes
I have to wonder if there was another factor here that, in conjunction with the slow depressurization, would have caused this. I am thinking maybe high CO levels along with a low cabin pressure.
500 KNOTS??? That's impressive.
Scott, Great video as usual. I had a few thoughts about N965DM. I listened to the ATC recordings a few days after the accident occurred. The pilot sounded a bit tentative when he picked up his clearance, and although I can't get the recording back now, I thought the handoff from departure to Boston Center was before he would have reached FL280. What was unusual was that he was not heard from for a long time (over an hour?). Could he have missed the frequency for the handoff, not figured out how to deal with it, and flew his filed or assigned route and altitude until he was close to home base, where he knew the local ATC frequencies (or picked them up from his approach plate). He did not sound out of it when he re-established contact with ATC, and said that he was ok. Perhaps he realized that he was too close to KBUF, tried to descend at too high a rate, and lost control of the aircraft. Was the issue the pilot's lack of experience in the IFR system and/or in the TBM850 that led to his inability to re-establish contact with ATC after the missed handoff, his less than perfect phraseology when he did re-establish contact, and a loss of control while trying to make a rapid 20,000 foot descent? What's odd is that while loss of pressurization could explain loss of communication, how did he re-establish radio contact, not sounding like he just came out of unconsciousness? Just my non-expert thoughts.
I think he was likely spaced out in level flight... figured out he had to talk to Buffalo... was very close... a Freq he knew... then passed out during the initial descent when he started using up his remaining oxygen. Woke up in denser air... sorta.
@@FlyWirescottperdue I guess we'll have to wait for the NTSB report. Could he have overstressed the aircraft after he started a rapid descent from FL280 to 8,000, causing rapid depressurization? Private pilot SEL flying a complex turboprop over a broken layer. Thanks again.
And the cockpit clouds up with mist lol
Question: If pressuration loss was was gradual, as in a leak, would not the re-pressurisaftion also be a slow leak inward? I'm thinking there would be some delay for atmospheric pressure to equalize outside cabin to inside cabin. I am not a pilot BTW.
The outside air pressure at altitude is much lower.Aircraft pressurization works by adding higher pressure air to the cabin. It always leaks out and you control it by a valve that just dumps pressure overboard. a leak like this is just too fast for the pressurization system to keep up. At 20,000' you have about 30 minutes or so of useful consciousness before you go to sleep.
I do not think this was Depressurization I think the pilot dove the plane to get his alt down fast and lost control or the plane broke up a little. That plane also has a mask and O2 I think he thought he was cleared to 8k and dove the plane. This plane is not known for pressurization issues.
Even if the auto pilot is off, shouldn't the aircraft be trimmed to a certain speed?? Why didn't it level off if it was trimmed properly as the speed increased?? I don't understand.
Lot’s of airplanes are not as stable hands off as you might think. The Bonanza is one…. I know, but I still love it!
Without the autopilot there is nothing to level the wings and bad things happen when a bank angle gets to a certain point and the pilot or autopilot doesn't level them.
@@FlyWirescottperdue My wife’s cousin built an RV8A, and he was very proud of the fact that it would go quite a distance straight and level hands-off. His retired airline pilot father said that you wouldn’t sufficiently appreciate that stability until you flew something that required fairly constant control input, and experienced an emergency that distracted you.
There should be a GPWS alert when pressurization drops to a critical point
Pilot cannot monitor at all times it is easy to ignore
Daher needs to answer this
He might have forgot to turn on the oxygen which runs through the engine .
One thing I’ve never understood is that during rapid depressurization, at 45K feet for example, you have seconds until you lose consciousness. But most people can hold their breath on the ground longer than that (some can hold their breaths for minutes at a time). Is there some way it effects your blood or something?
With a pressure differential like that which would exist at 45,000' it would not be a choice you could make.
Investigators make speculations all the time and then they study the facts. It's part of the process.
Exactly!
You also have to give the hose a tug to start the flow of oxigen.
I fly regularly and always listen to the words of the whole crew.
Respect them and be nice to them and your flying experience is much nicer. 😎
Highly recommend upset recovery training for high performance aircraft pilots. I believe this pilot lost control during the descent and became incapacitated vs becoming unconscious aka spatial disorientation. Prayers for the pilot and his family...
Don' think this was a Spatial D, I've done videos on that as well. Look at the video of 700DT.... you got these two reversed.
@@FlyWirescottperdue arm chair QB by yours truly sir. Great job analyzing the mishap. Cheers!
Arent there de-pressorization alarms build in ?
Dang these the models Steavo flys right?
I wonder why isn’t it possible to install alarms connected to O2 sensors to detect slow depress or failure to pressurise? Is there any such thing available and if not why? There are O2 sensors in every modern car exhaust these days.
There are pressurization sensors. Doesn’t mean he saw them
Isn't there an alarm that indicates low cabin pressure?
Is there any type of oxygen level sensor that would warn a pilot should slow depress be taking place?
Strange that a Dr behaved similarly and also flew into the ground.
Hi,the OLDER TBMs had the pressurization through 1 screen of the GARMIN SYSTEM, but TBM had now gone to a SEPERATE AUTO System As in passengers planes, BUT yoy still have monitor AND TWEAK IT, SAD RIP, 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
tweak ? considering how much these planes cost, there should not be any such requirement. They should have an alarm going off if there is anything suspicious in the air delivery. So tragic.....
@@linanicolia1363 maybe I should have said monitor& ADJUST AS REQUIRED, I follow someone whom flies his own BEECH PREMIER 1 JET,& he mentioned the SAME THING! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Another great discussion - Thanks!
BTW, please straighten the crooked picture frame behind you...my OCD is out of control! lol
Ha...ha.....I thought the same......Too funny.......not really important, unless you are OCD.
We’ve already asked :)
It looks like we just need to adapt.
I hate disagreeing with you Scott because I have immense respect for your many analyses, but on this one I do respectfully disagree. Among my reasons for skepticism about hypoxia in this case, though hypoxia can and does claim lives, is that the pilot sounds quite coherent when he checked in with Buffalo approach, which doesn't fit with a theory that he was earlier hypoxic enough to fail to check in with Cleveland Center. Not only was he quite coherent when he checked in, he must have already dialed up the approach control radio frequency and successfully begun the descent when cleared to do so, which is not what I would plausibly expect of a hypoxic pilot.
Instead, I think that during the descent he mis-programmed the autopilot, then got into a fight with it.
I think we can all agree he was on autopilot during cruise, and probably all agree that he began the descent still on autopilot. While discussing the approach plan (vectors ILS23), I suspect that he "activated" the approach rather than "armed" it, causing the airplane to turn to the right when he wasn't expecting it. It's been known to happen, and is entirely plausible even for a non-hypoxic pilot. Under my "theory of the case", his response to this unexpected turn was probably to attempt to hand-fly a turn back to the left while forgetting to turn the autopilot off. In such a scenario, he might have begun to fight the autopilot, and if he pulled back on the yoke at any point the autopilot would likely have trimmed the airplane nose down in response. It would not have taken long before this kind of fight between the pilot and the autopilot could have resulted in an extreme nose-low pitch trim condition, from which I think the pilot was unable to fully regain control.
Whether this is ultimately what happened or not, I remind pilots to be wary of hypoxia, and to avoid fighting the autopilot. The "positive exchange of controls" applies not only to two human pilots, but also to humans vs. autopilots.
Finally, even if the pilot was hypoxic, I still think we have to consider the role of the autopilot in this accident. If the pilot was hypoxic and the airplane was on autopilot, no possible combination of button pushes I can think of could have resulted in this sequence of events. So there must have been some hand-flying with the autopilot either on or off, and if it was off, the pilot who a couple of minutes earlier at high altitude who had begun a controlled descent must now at a lower altitude be so incredibly ham-fisted as to lose control. I'm extremely skeptical.
Maybe we're even both right. That is, the pilot was at least mildly hypoxic, then got into the autopilot fight scenario I described above.
I greatly appreciate the work you do, please keep it up, as it contributes to aviation safety.
Hmm. I wonder about the possibility of retribution if he was a famous lawyer. What kind of lawyer was he? Also, if his niece was on board and this was for a moment a survivable descent (?), why didn't she try to get on the radio that was already set up on the right frequency? I mean, how old was the niece? I've been in the kitchen while listening so I might have missed something - please forgive any confusion. Kind of a strange case.
How chilling it must be to ATC if he has to say "stop descent, level your wings, maintain any altitude."
Is it possible that he fell asleep, woke up, then fell asleep again?
I wonder if some type of ‘dead-man switch’ on the yoke ( similar to modern trains) that if released for say 15 seconds, activates autopilot, and descends the aircraft to a minimum safe altitude ( preset for the region). My car, if the driver’s hand is not on the steering wheel for more than 5 seconds, begins to brake and will come to a complete stop.
That wouldn't work, but there are autopliot solutions based on descent angle/rate and altitude.
I did not known a tbm 965 existed.