My New "Rolling Cuts" Technique For Distilling
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- čas přidán 2. 12. 2021
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Time to talk about the new Rolling Cuts technique that I am using. I have been an advocate for collecting all cuts into jars for a long time. But I don't often do that anymore.
I still think it's a great way to get into the hobby and really learn about what's coming off your still. But once you have done that for a while you may want to try this instead.
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Jesse, thank you! This is the best video/information about cuts that I have seen. Watching your videos has renewed my interest in the hobby.
Nice one Jesse!
For those who are just getting into this hobby, start watching from the start. It shows how to get into this as a complete newbie. Follow the steps and you will get there eventually. Just like me, Jesse, and a lot of other people. You will be making mistakes, cock-ups, what have you. We call them learning stages. Eventually we come to a point that we believe we can let go of our training weels. We cock-up some more, and learn a bit more. Sure, if you run your still long enough and run recipe's you know, you can start taking shortcuts. But this is a hobby, as long as you're keeping it safe....
Keep exploring, experimenting, failing, succeeding.
We do the same thing. When a cut is expected we change to wine glasses and the closer we get we change to glencairn glasses. The hearts for shure go in a larger pot again. All the while keeping records of temperature and abv. The glencairn glasses we keep overnight to air out a bit so the final precise cut will be made the day later. Everytime we do this the cuts are more and more precise on the roll. Thanks for all your videos. We made a big learning curve with them
Thank you for justifying my method, I thought I was just being lazy! I got tired of cleaning so many containers and started doing this a while ago. Dangerous minds think alike! 😆
Certain extractives come across at different temperatures. You can be getting one compound at 79 C and another at 81 C . Prime Hearts will be near tasteless. Heads & Tails are unique with each temp. differences. For herb/spiced wash, this is rather stunning the differences.
In theory: One could be getting clean hearts and then 500mls of ginger's bitting spiciness and back to clean hearts before next flavor profile appears. This is why many 'cut' jars comes in handy.
When the aim is a neutral or near neutral spirit from a light flavored wash/mash. Then there is less likely a surprise flavor spike in hearts, and bulk collecting hearts makes more sense.
I am glad that you made this video and that you are evolving. Chasing the craft requires it. I am way back at the beginning of the craft.
Exactly what I switched to doing a couple of months ago! Got tired of tons of small jars of distillate that I knew was well within the heads/hearts/tails zones so I changed. Interesting to see that this technique is essentially coevolution.
I apreciate the different cut methods you share, i am just learning but i want to start my own distillery. This will really help me get to making cuts on the fly
Great detail for new guys. Thank you.
Excellent video Jesse!!
I enjoy all your videos. Thank you. 😊
This is exactly how I run things, and it's where I landed after watching your previous cuts video. After I got that down, it was obvious that I should be taking off hearts in big jars, because they were all going to be kept anyway.
Cool to see that you've also arrived at the same idea, affirming even.
On a more serious note, I have watched master distillers collect in jars at the beginning and end of a run if they are using a new recipe or ingredient. When I collect in jars I document the ABV and still head temp for each jar. Eventually you get pretty good at using proof and temp to help inform your nose, but smell is the main thing. If you are going to taste, proof down a wee sample before you taste. The burn in high proof spirits will burn out your palate and everything will taste the same. Thanks and Cheers, Jesse!
That 's right. The smell not the the taste is the right indicator where you are. And the temprature and ABV and of course practicing and practicing more
a little terminology for you: making cuts is very close to fractioning. so taking fractions is highly enlightening in the beginning, like you say, but isn't an essential element once you have run your rig a few times and know about how much volume of each fraction to expect. the only time fractioning really becomes important is when you're doing extractions. if you've got a bunch of spices in your column, then you'll want to take smaller fractions as to fully control the flavor of the end product, but if you're just stripping your mash on a first run or again, you know your rig very well, it's more of a waste of time and effort.just don't let any tails in and you'll be doing just fine. it's far more important to understand your reflux/filtering techniques than it is to understand your cuts perfectly. filtering out impurities often makes the fractioning process easier, so put some copper in that column :)
I am looking forward to my into the am T-shirts. I just ordered 3 yesterday.
I love it Thanks Not quite there but this gives me something to work towards.
I use this method now, i agree with how you do it. It's easy and faster.
I find it's a more reliable way for me to get more consistency batch to batch.
My system is very similar to this. I set up my still height to collect into 200ml measuring cylinders under SS funnels. This helps me note volume and ABV of my 'jars': 1 - 200ml @ 92%, 2 - 250ml @ 91% etc. I have 2 of the cylinders and 2 funnels so I just swap them, measure and note the one i just took off, and then transfer the contents. As per your video, into an actual jar if I am around a cut point, or into a larger collection jug during hearts. When I get near tails, I'll swap to a jars again before running out tails into a feints jars as you also do.
I also write on the jar in marker '2 - 250ml 89%' etc. as I go. It washes right off when I clean the jars later, but it's easy enough to do while I am collecting and helps a lot if I don't get around to blending for a few days.
Good video, I have a 30 gallon all copper still. I pitch first 500ish ml, I fill usually 14 quart jars. I dump jar 2 through 13 together it comes out usually around 85ish proof. Dump the rest of the tails (Backins) in the thumper on the next run
I’ve started doing that too haha I just know roughly what’s gonna be junk vs good! Excellent explanation
Love the hand placement on the unfinished counter edge ..i always laugh because i forget about it untill i notice it again .. thanks for leaving it as is ...lol
Thanks for sharing 👍
Using a mix of guidance and practice, the following works well for me for spirit runs.
Fore shots and Heads - 120ml per 20L charge @ 10% - Start to taste and verify hearts starting. Switch the parrot to collect and use the alcoholmeter (Proof and trails) usually you'll be at about 80% or less. Hearts are taken down to 65% @ the parrot and start checking for tails. Corn washes usually cut around 65-64% while Single malts tend to go down to 62-60%
Really liked this. 👍 Love the channel 🙂
I do it this way. Fell into it naturally
Great video Jesse 👍👌
Jeeze Jessy getting better and better
I like this, it's fairly close to how I run my little still.
This is essentially what I did for my first couple of runs and every one I let try the final product loved it. Don't know how but looking back on it I did a good amount of things wrong or at least not by the book
The only way to go, this is the KISS principle, wonderful,thanks Jesse
I do something similar but will change to your way as it seams much easier also I wish there was more than 1 thumbs up as you definitely deserve more so here they are 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks for this video Jesse. It has reassured me that I'm doing it right. Have been doing it this way since day 3, after figuring it out logically. George was an influence to getting me started in this hobby, but you have opened my eyes to so much more possibilities and flavors! Keep up the great stuff you do!
Where's George ?
@@Jeff-ov2qy on barley & hops channel.
@@tomblankendaal3228 Thanks Tom, I do know that. George has been instrumental as well with this craft as Jesse is But George hasn't done anything for quite sometime and I'm wondering what the scoop is with him. I hope everything is alright !!! Has anybody heard ?
I do 300ml cuts, and use it with my 95% off of my turbo500 to make 750ml jars of goodness at 43%….. it works well, tastes great, and makes me happy inside my heart!
This does make sense. Especially for an experienced hobbiest. And for larger batches. But for small batches and those still new the older method is better I think.
Thanks for taking the time to explore other techniques for collecting cuts besides the orthodox million small jars of new spirit. I think the exact process should depend on the spirit being collected. I make dark spirits--whiskeys and rums--and typically (for a ~13g / 50l wash) start with 2-4 small (200ml)) heads cuts (including foreshots--no there is no meaningful methanol or other poison in whiskey and rum washes, but that is a different discussion). And then move relatively quickly to the largest containers I have to collect what I calculate is 60%-75% of the product I have (monitoring to make cuts if necessary, but it rarely is) . Then collect a few small containers when I think it is transitioning to tails, but go back to larger containers to wring out the last remaining tails which I compress some using reflux (for recycling in the next batch along with the heads). I also compress the heads with reflux at the very beginning, but stop the reflux after the fist cut, only adding it back to keep abv at a usable level (yea, I'm a one and done guy).
This isn't a "rolling" cut as you describe. I end up with a bunch of jars still, but far less than if I was collecting all 200ml cuts. **In my opinion** it is not necessary to sweat the details in collecting cuts for whiskey and rum. I usually end up recycling the first and last 2-3 cuts in my next run, but that's it. If ~80% of the alcohol is not making it into the final product (whiskey or rum) you are being too stringent on you cuts, or there is something seriously jacked up with your fermentation. So why worry about taking cuts for the middle chunk of the run. And even the included cuts on the ends that taste "iffy" (1) your not serving them in isolation, not only are they blended and largely diluted with the hearts, but I think they actually add complexity in small volume, and (2) I'm going to be aging the spirit, which will mature and change the flavor anyway. Say what you will about the "giant" whiskey distillers particularly here in the US, but at their best they make some damn fine Bourbon and other whiskeys, and they take no cuts at all--food for thought.
I can't say how to do cuts for vodka or other whites spirits---not my wheelhouse.
Ok, you convinced my liquor fairy to grow up and try big boy cuts;-)
AHAHAHHA
Yes it totally makes sense, with experience if you have the competence and confidence it is a lot more practical with larger runs, but I do find allowing the jars to air for a day or so allows me to make a finer cut on smaller runs where the final hearts cut is only about 2 litres, it is a lot easier to manage a dozen 200ml jars and a couple of large jars of heads and tails
Amazing content brov, as always! I have been doing it this way myself for my last few runs out of necessity... Had some friends help me move and my collection of jars shrank considerably, then the wife robbed me of a few more for canned foods... 😂 But it works and now we can eat good and drink good
Or the wife comes home with 50 lbs of red beets for you to pickle. " All canning jars on deck. Repeat. All canning jars report on deck. " :D
1:05 "Totally sober. Swear to dog."
You are describing my methods perfectly
If you are doing a repeat recepie, using a thermometer, a timer and an ABV, it will help you better prepare for when to make the cuts or increase resolution in your future distilling of that recepie.
Awesome vid Jesse! I use the same/similar technique, especially when making the same old rum recipe that I make 100Litres of wash a month of so I know the flavors and tastes off by heart(or hearts, haha) . Also a lot easier when distilling twice as the cuts are more defined ... My method is 3 jars, two smaller and one 750ml jar. I take fores by smell/taste until heads start coming through in one jar,I will then chuck that in my foreshots jug. Then I take smaller 1/4 jars which I evaluate with the two smaller ones, evaluating them as I take them off and put them either on 'fores' jug or 'Heads and Tails' jug. This needn't be too done too precisely as the feints go through the still again. Once hearts start coming through I will continue the process until I am quite sure and will keep one 1/2 jar after I am certain it's all hearts. Once I am certain it's all hearts the large jug gets put in and filled and I rev up the still a bit to get some more flavor carry-over, that goes to my 'final product' jug. When swopping the large jug out I will put the empty small jug in to catch the few drips while I empty the fuller large jug. The contents of the small jug get tasted to determine where I am in the run and what is to happen with the next large jug. Once a bit has gone into the large jar I will use that to compare with the small jar I kept earlier to determine if it goes to feints or final jug (I am normally conservative as I don't through feints away anyway). I follow the continuous tasting and putting into the final jug until tails are sensed to a point where I want to cut I'll take a 'meh' jar or two in the small jars that I decide upon later (I don't mind a bit of tails in my spirits normally , plenty of good flavor there) and once it's past the point I will simply pour the rest into the large jar until the stillate goes milky. This all goes into the 'Heads and Tails' jug. Works for me, I have limited counter space so the 3 jar system works well for me.
Nice!
Just magic, distilling tomorrow, so instead of just filling small jars looks like I can switch right on, looking forward to sunrise, Cheers and thanks
Totally agree! Only done like 6 runs and it really sorted itself out to getting rid of Four shots and head ms (250-300ml) and literally every time collecting “jar 2” though the point when tails started tasting like ass. Interesting though that when you taste a tails jar - in conjunction with with combining with a #2 head jay, they sort of cancel each other out and give you a palatable product. Fun.
Good explanation dude. Like you I found that there's no need to keep certain jars around and do like the large jars with one exception... the late tails. Depending on the recipe, I've seen oddball tails cuts that are magnificent with little to no 'tailsyness' and some awesomeness, but it may only be a small volume so it's hard to catch unless you're letting the still drizzle across your tongue like an ice luge, LOL. I prefer to switch back to small jars from about 30% ABV down to 15%, just in case.
that's exactly how I do things from the very start, dude!
While I still collect it all in jars I sort of do a rolling style cuts. I have a set of 32oz,24oz and 12oz jars. When I know I'm in a cut I collect in 32oz and 24oz. When I feel I'm coming out of the cut I switch to 12oz to catch the fade. I'll make notes during the cuts where I believe things are changing. But I still like to leave everything open to air out for 24 hours and blend it another day. Heads to hearts are almost always a clear cut but after sitting I end up adding more of the fading to tails jars then I would have during the actual run.
I must be really lazy. Once I've got the foreshots out I collect about 250 ml, (from 18 litres) call them heads, then collect everything down to 50%. Head and tails (first 250ml plus everything below 50%) go into same bottle to go into next run. Done. I'm always happy with what I get. Simple works for me.
I think for my first few runs this spring I'll use the parrot. Then I can get used to different flavors profiles as I learn.
Good topic and well explained, the only thing is the taste between heads hearts and tails! What are you actually looking or tasting, every ones plaits are different?
Yup, that's what I been doing for a while.
I do mostly neutral so I do two runs. Second run I dilute to 40% and use formula. Based on volume of alcohol in boiler at 40% ABV, 3% fores, 5% heads, 65% hearts, 28% tails. Saw Russian homedistiller explain step by step on CZcams. The longest homedistiller video I've ever watched, watched it twice already :-)
Used his method several times already with very good results. I usually throw extra in heads to make sure my hearts are as clean as I can get, and cut before tails early too for same.reason.
Russian homedistiller? I can't find it. What is the actual name of the channel?
Ok, let’s see if I have this straight: if I am using a small red still and I light the end of the condenser and flames shoot out, it’s a torch not a still. Correct?
HAHAHAHAHHAHA
Jesse throwing down the gauntlet. Ok what I have heard is also doing it by abv. If your pot stilling say a whisky. They say. It’ll start coming off at like 75-80 %. Then rapidly drop and level out at anywhere between 70-65 and then you’ll know that’s hearts. And then again at like 45-40. Idk. I kinda use the method your talking about but. It’s a thought.
I use a parrot during my runs. With the real time proof number and a little teaspoon for tasting, I don’t go very far into the 40s before I’m tasting the tails coming. When I notice a SLIGHT haze in the jar , I know it’s time to shut it down. Tempering my whisky with distilled water down to about 45% keeps it bright and few weeks with oak chips makes a nice drinking spirit, neat, no mixer.
I do a similar collection but instead of collecting straight into the large jar I still collect into small jars and then check the proof and taste before just dumping it into the main jar. So I usually just end up with a few jars of heads and tails to assess.
And also doing this keeps you better safe than sorry.
Jars are cheap enough that doing this isn’t breaking the bank.😊👍🥃
I have actually been doing this same thing for my runs for a couple of years now and I really like it. Seems like a lot less work
Yep, 100%. I quickly moved from squillions of small jars to your model.
So I copied your jars idea and got 2 x 6 packs of 300ml jars and I use an old jam jar for foreshots. I numbered my jars but for jar 5 and 6 I got a couple of 1ltr milk bottle looking things from kmart because I was running out of jars and i figured 5 and 6 are most likely hearts.
It seems to work good. I put 1 and 2 into feints and make a decision on 3 and 4 but 5 and 6 I keep. etc. Usually around 10 or 11 it starts to get that hint of old socks smell.
Now this is just a sugar wash and I have seen others saying they don't need to collect heads and tails because in the T500 they just remove the foreshots and they know the rest is good right up until it stops producing spirits. (1 drops per second with no runn in the middile)
A couple of questions: 1. Can you taste the heads in a sugar wash? 2. Is there a more distinct taste difference in a corn wash between heads hearts and tails? 3. Is it right that a sugar wash is all pretty much hearts all the way through from foreshots until it stops producing?
I have to say, my first couple of jars smell really good maybe right up to jar 3. Smells sweet and like it would have a decent taste. Or is that the chemicals? 5 and 6 are pretty flat smell, obviously if I take a big whiff it will burn my nose but there is a alcohol smell I guess but not sweet. Then as I get up around 9 or 10 it starts to get a faint smell then of course around 11 or 12 it has what I think smells like old socks. I can then usually collect 13 and 14 and sometimes I get another jar I know is going into feints and keep collecting because it is still doing the drip drip pour drip drip pour thing out of the still so it is still collecting alcohol and it is still around 70 to 80%abv. Does this sound right to you. I can watch all day but unless I am smelling or tasting myself I can only guess and go by my own cuts.
Cheers to anyonethat can help
Try a kiwi brandy! Either the fruit or the bird
Not being a smart butt here, it it sounds like you have become very familiar with your distilling process. I’ve ready/seen vids that says, once you don’t this long enough, the smaller cuts will no longer be necessary. That sounds about like where you are. That’s pretty awesome
I used this exact method on my first run, except I only cut every 200 mil. It just seemed easier than saving everything up, and I only had like nine 400 mil jars available. I've got a small still however. Only 5.3 gallons. 200 mil just seemed like a good general amount.
I usually collect heads in small amounts and the rest of the run in same size jars through to the tails cut. This is yes for cuts aaaaaand whatever else may happen. Standard practices keep you prepared for “oh shit!” moments that could change the run..
Using a clean parrot for the hearts collection can really help avoid tails contamination. As soon as the ABV drops below the appropriate value for your process (60%ish) then switch back to jars.
Question jesse....i been keeping the heads/feints.
Is it worth putting them in the next run? Even if only to get the still running quicker, Or am i just gonna get the same "bad" flavours but in greater quantity? Ie just ad to the quantity of heads on the run that the feints are used in.
Where do I get a still lit's still like that yellow one
Hi All, very new to the hobbie and I find it really interesting and am looking forward to my journey….. can someone please explain to me what is a feints jar? I’d imagine it would be a rather large collection over some time, can that be reused once abv lowered ? Would love to know what are the options with this thanks so much
Could temperature be used to be approximately in the area of heads, hearts, and tail ? Same still being used. Different recipes of course. Or are the flavor profiles going to come at different temperatures, to be that predictable ?
Hi
Was wondering if a parrot could help with rolling cuts or would this mix too much heads hearts and tails ?
How do you wash your jars to avoid contaminating the flavour?
Doing a botanical rum run while watching your vid using the same rolling cuts method lol
I really needed to go to the toilet for a pee after all those water 💦 pours from one jar into another 😂 Nice video!!! 👍🏻
You may have been asked this before but... here goes... would this process be easier to repeat using a parrot? If so what do you look for and if not why? Thanks in advance! Keep it up!
Dude are in PN or surrounding area? I'm from Dannevirke, what shops do you hit for your gear mate?
“It’s all revenant”. So true brother Been doing it this way now for awhile but also true. Great way for beginners to learn how differently such small cuts can change. Working with a padawan and teaching him the same. Good technique Thank you for everything. Ps. Not a fan of the shirts……
Im a new subscriber, id like to know what still would be suitable for me to distill with?
That's a tricky question man. It VERY much depends on what you want to make, what part of the process you enjoy, how much you want to make, budget, space available etc.
Can you clean them up and use them and bottle it
Is it possible for you to make cuts purely based off temperature of the boil and output temperature of the pot still? In my mind, the flavours should all be similar based on the temperatures???
So because i havent even begun distilling or have any connection to this hobby do we throght away fourshots because they have to much alcohol is something else and if its only the alcohol can why make lemonchelo from fourshots ?
I thought ten jars was way too many as well, did it once then went to four because it made better sense.
I think George was talking about using the alcoholometer to watch for hearts and tails. He said as heads come out watch the percentage. As soon as it drops you’re into hearts. The tails are tougher but usually appear around (but not always 50%.
What’s your opinion on that?
I've talked about this with George. Basically it came down to George tends to run a much narrower range of different washes and flavours. He also has a narrower set of taste preferences. In other words he knows what he likes and generally keeps to that. So in that situation its much more likely to work for you consistently.
I tend to do some weird things and try to find the edge of what I can get away with in terms of digging for flavour in the heads and hearts.
@@StillIt I’m like you man, bring on the funk and skunk!
My jars look like a bell curve, I make a cut not only when I think I should, but anytime there is a change in the vapour temp, flow rate, abv, smell, haze. Those things change for a reason.
Having been a pro brewer I'm very interested in the math of distilling. What sort of efficiency do you expect? Example = 10 gallons(37.9 liters) of 10% wash equals 1 gallon(3.8 liters) of 100% alcohol or 2 gallons(7.6 liters) of 50% alcohol at 100% efficiency. From experience efficiency is tough to nail down because of how much tails is left in the wash.
I think that's very subjective. It all depends on the setup you are running and how far into the tails you run. My unit can produce something that's running on average 140 proof and I cut off at 100 proof and the next person can average 120 proof and cut off at 40 proof those volumes will be pretty different and efficiency will also be quite different.
I’m running a 5 gallon Chinese pot still. Throughout my entire run it always taste prickly and smells like rubbing alcohol what am I doing wrong. Yes including my tails and when tasting I’m yet to taste what I put in.
So I have a salmon recipe that inspired me to try to make a batch of booze it's maple syrup cracked black pepper in burnt cedar plank not burn but charred cedar plank
I have a small 3-gallon still I use the gallon and a half of maple syrup watered it all down after fermenting I put a half a teaspoon of black pepper can I distill that once it was distilled I put a piece of burnt Cedar in my jar it's getting nice honeycolor very peppery and very very caramel
I think that’s pretty much where,George ,was when you asked him.
I have not seen a video comparing this method to making cuts in smaller jars. Maybe I have missed it? It would be simple to do as an experiment and the result would be interesting. Making cuts in smaller jars is a lot of work. Is it worth it? Is the final product better, worse or possibly the same? Obviously this will be a completely subjective experiment . Getting a few tasters involved to reduce that subjectiveness would be great.
Please please help I'm struggling with a recipe 🙏 much love from Ireland
Time and temp. Only have data of 5. But I am noticing a close timeline.
You should distill kombucha
What happened to George please
Sounds extremely complicated use a digital temperature control it's a very good indication of hearts and Tails don't stress you can always put it back into the fence jar
im a piss head it all taste good i take it all , cut at the end flavour with wood bam ya done
guys go over still it old videos most of what he douse is explained in them
@jesse. I'm new to this. What do you do with all the collected up heads?
If you redistill them, will you get only heads for the entire run?
If you let them soak in activated charcoal for a month, does some of the funky smell disappear?
Paul
Yeah beats having 35 jars knocking around 😅
Самогонщики всех стран объединяйтесь!
I know how much heads need to come off by gallon that's the trick then I throw away the heads unless I want to give my beverage a fighting spirit then I'll throw it back into the still but be careful you have to separate the methanol again the end result fighting spirit
USA sc
As a professional, making cuts other than a clean heads and tails is reserved mostly for emergencies when something suddenly tastes off or there is a equipment problem. Not there is anything ‘wrong’ with using 8 collection vessels instead of 1 but it will rarely make a difference. But whatever works for people, I’m not here to yuck anyone’s yum.
Hows it going man. This is what Im going here. I'm only keeping 1 hearts cut, 1 heads and 1 tails .
I'm going to guess as a pro you have perhaps 2-6 consistent things you distill (most likely with a few subtle variations on those)?
I never really distill the same thing twice (making the same thing over and over is bad content lol). So I dont have the advantage of knowing what happened before. Or exactly when what flavours are going to turn up. A lot of home distillers do the same thing just because its fun. But If I was making the same whiskey for the 5th time in a row I wouldn't use this method either.
This just means I can take a little time with different fractions and then decide when to make the Heads to hearts cut and when to make the hearts to tails cut. I don't need to do it on the fly as its coming off the still.
Seldomly I will take a little more deep into the tails (like skip the wet dog and then try and find something else fun down below that).
@@StillIt Absolutely, In my work it's 9 spirits that require distillations runs, but the basic Idea holds true. It's fun as hell to keep everything apart if you have the time and space for it. The approaches you've taken I think always make sense for the application they are being used for.
I think "when in doubt, switch vessels" is a great rule of thumb; sort it out in the morning. because future us is often wiser than present us. Certainly smarter than past us who screwed up the mash. that guy is a jerk.
I think home distillers {only in New Zealand obviously} should do what they are comfortable with, but I would recommend not to overthink anything if it stops being fun. If you want to keep 20 cuts? do it. If you just want to keep 3, keep 3... blend as needed.
But even with a joyus wacky new mash bill I would offer that it might be good to limit cuts if ONLY because it speeds things up and doing a wacky thing twice might teach someone more than slowly doing the wacky thing once.
First
have you tried to make jet fuel mate?