Kill Team: Are Elites Good or Bad?
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- čas přidán 24. 03. 2024
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Regarding translating win rates to tournament wins, the math there is a bit counter-intuitive. Namely, to win a tournament you don't need to win once or twice but 5 times in a row, and the probability of that changes much faster. In your example of 46% vs 56%, you are 10% more likely to win a single game, but 2.67 times (or 167%) more likely to win five games. This explains a fair bit of the tournament win rate gap
Great analysis, I guess my point was more that the percentage gap in win % doesn’t tell the full story. Previously we had elites with a higher win percentage but still fewer tournament wins (proportionally) then more dominant teams. But, as Elites are such a large portion of the meta they usually get more wins than lesser represented teams (even though on a per player basis they might be winning significantly more)
The problem is that nowadays almost every non-elite team has at least two gunners who hit really hard and the opponent on top of that has more activations, so he can wait with them until you move all your operators. Plus add in things like taking off obscure and there's a huge problem.
Also the fact that the elites are simple being outactived doesnt help at all. Yes, they have 3APL, but that doesn't seem to be something that offsets the fact that the opponent simply has more of those activations.
I'm afraid that nothing can be done here anymore because Intercesors or Legionary lack the right tools. That's why Phobos as an elite are doing really well.
Yeah, as more and more people figure out the correct strategies to beat Elites their chances of success go up and up
Yeah, I personally have a really tough time against Hierotek, their shooting is just so insanely strong (I play open board and Intercession/Justian/Legionary)
@@t-boxbeirdogames4642 they have a lot of tools to do significant damage to elites
I've been saying this for over a year now, but nooo, the top players and testers see no problem because two out of thirty teams are viable elites and some top player can play them good.
I would add to the issue the following: top players can play them good because they can use and abuse obscure mechanic, and mid to low players get stomped (or used to) be stomped by Intercession because they didn't know how to counter them.
Every team having plasma and another armor busting gunner, with Heavy doing nothing, makes it absudrly easy to stomp games versus any marine teams.
When can we expect those episodes to hit spotify? I really enjoyed listening to older episodes on my commute, but since I don't have YT premium i can't do it with the newer stuff
I was going to post the same, on Spotify you can do other things in the meantime
I’ll get on it 🙏
How did I not know you guys are on Spotify?! Climbing out from under the rock I live under and checking out your links page ASAP
@@skavid4811 all on the linktree, I need to upload a lot of episodes though
I Would like to see a season where we have 4 objectives instead of 6. 6 really strains the elite teams. I suspect the numbers will say the elite teams feast on newer players or teams players have less experience with.
This would be a really interesting change, another option is 5 objectives to make it harder to have draws? You then force teams to have a points differential in primary every turning point
Regarding Phobos and double charges you can do double kill and potentailly stay alive if you use comms-man. People don't like hum but I find that you can do some unpredictible and intresting plays with him.
Great way to increase survivability!
Elaborate how you intend to use the commsman, cause i also like him, but i generally struggle with phobos in general.
@@TheRainfield Double Charge, fight twice with Reiver with smoke. If he doesnt get killed in opponents next activation you go with your comms next and use his ability to give your Reiver an order to throw a smoke. If Reiver is in cover you might as an alternative give him order to flip his order.
Great episode! Good to hear those numbers too.
I'm really not fond of the idea of bringing guard into Open tho. While I don't nessecarily think it would be game breaking, I fear it wouldn't be very fun. Wouldn't getting to some vantage points early and performing a guard action potentialle stifle the game a lot? It would also potentially buff the wrong teams quite a bit (Kasrkin would probably love it into elites? 😅).
If we want some kind of guard-like action in Open, I would much rather see it tied to the existing Overwatch mechanic. So you could interrupt with your overwatch? That could be kinda cool and a lot more contained.
It’d definitely depend on map design, but it could make for some more interesting plays with equipment such as smoke grenades or the Kasrkin decoy grenades
I guess either way it’d need a lot of play testing to see what feels best
Kasrkin highlighted the issue but ‘how do you play around your opponents gunners’ has been there for a while so it’s business as usual… it’s hard! Snipers are still my least favourite to play verses.
Silent is such a strong ability to deliver some potent one way shooting. Agree with your point though, maybe as more people are learning the fundamentals of competitive Elites are struggling more
Note that I'm a casual player but I really dislike the matchup of elite team vs specialist team. It all boils down to whether you manage to get their AP units before your losses are too big. On the other hand, if they get them, the elite team is not in any danger anymore. The game is often decided at the end of turning point 2.
Yeah, I’m not sure what the solution is because if the big guns get nerfed then a lot of teams lack the tools to deal with Elites and if the Elites can’t kill the big guns first they get smashed… it’s a tricky challenge!
Crazy to me that we now have a mandrakes kt and even a nightlords kt, and yet we STILLLL dont have real rules for strike force justinian
They released the errata confirming the TacOps and 5As on heavy bolter, I’m not convinced the team will get Equipment or Faction Tacops
Im new to kill team. What is considered an elite team? How are they different from other kill teams?
Elite teams, simply put, are six man units that have 3 apl and more than 10 wounds
They are built to rely on individual unit activation over team zoning (setting up kill lines), so losing one unit is a much bigger deal than losing a generic shooter. Because of this elite teams are all but forced to avoid any battle of attrition (if they don't have way to mitigate damage) and often push for single activations that change the board state before they take too much damage
For the upcoming episodes, could you update them at the same on Spotify ? It is a better platform to listen a podcast while you do some other stuff.
I’ll try and do a big upload to Spotify soon
I am starting to get into Kill team as I am paint a 2k pts army of Tyranids.
I was planning to go in with either, 8 Termagants with spinefist and 3 warriors (not sure of loadout for those yet) or just 6 warriors.
I do not currently have genestealers for the record.
What would you guys suggest I build?
Definitely the 8 termagants and 3 warriors. 6 warriors is unfortunately not that good since they only have 2 APL per model so they aren’t as good as other elite 6 model teams
Most commonly I see people playing Genestealers & Warriors, there’s some matchups where 6 warriors are best but usually it’s 3 warriors & 5 stealers
I think elite teams just need more wounds, full stop. No reason for teams like fellgor to out-wound legionaries by like 30 wounds
Something to help their durability would definitely be welcome. It’s a fine balance, I quite like the Nightlords changes as these seem to be a good way to play around with it
I main Intercession, so it was kind of comical but also sad that they got: “well… they have no way to deal with AP weapons. So… 🤷 “ 😆
I know you went into a couple specifics (chapter tactics Durable and Unyielding and the ploy Wrath of Vengeance), but it’s unfortunate that other elites get more tools to deal with AP.
I mean… there is really nothing else to mention. I did like your suggestion for giving them either more versatility with chapter tactics on activation, and I liked the 5++ invulnerable save for Unyielding. Guess we will just have to wait and see! 🤞
Yeah, it definitely looks like the other elite teams have better tools to deal with the AP threats
I’d love to see some intercession love in a balance update soon
Really need that soon