Is HAAS in TROUBLE? SVM4100 Is Priced to Directly Compete…
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- čas přidán 31. 07. 2024
- It's new machine day! Is the SVM 4100 from DN Solutions really more machine for the money when compared to its competition? With the arrival of the new machine at Titans of CNC, the team talks about the specs and advantages of having the SVM 4100 on the floor as the the machine gets ready to be put to the test.
00:00 - 00:57 DN Solutions SVM 4100 Arrives
00:58 - 01:23 Unboxing
01:24 - 2:13 DN Solutions vs HAAS
02:14 - 03:32 First look at the SVM
03:33 - 04:14 Moving the Machine Into Place
04:15 - 05:13 Barry's Project Sneak Peak
05:14 - 06:28 Finalize Machine Placement
06:29 - 07:44 Titan's Final Thoughts on the SVM 4100
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#CNC #Machining #Machinist - Věda a technologie
Haas gets customers with the upfront pricing directly accessible by anyone looking...every other machine tool company still has this 90's model sales tactic garbage where you need to contact a sales rep and go back and forth before you ever get a single price quoted. Its nonsense.
If rep gets back to you. i heard BUUUUNCH of stories of smaller shops looking to get 1-2 machines where rep doesnt bother to even reply.
@@QurttoRcoyea you hear a lot bs until you go to buy quit listening to people and take action. 🐑
So true, sadly that sales model is still here not only in machining tool companies but also even in some places for cars, heavy equipment etc.
Personally, If I have to contact someone, I just don't and get it somewhere I can see the price upfront. I hate going back and forth with pricing, also I just want to compare equipment before I even contemplate on making a purchase.
Not to mention HAAS service is basically the fastest in the business
I do like though that each axis' is locked down with brackets
itd be nice if dn solutions was like haas and had a similar website to show prices of the machines so u know what ur getting with ur purchase. I think thats one reason why ppl like haas their upfront with their prices.
they do show the price when go to website 78,500
They have the base price available, but if you want to configure the machine with options you still have to submit a request to your local distributor. Mazak has an online build tool for their new EZ line of machines very similar to Haas, but you have to register an account with them to gain access to the function. I think as time goes on, this will become more common place among OEMs.
DN Solutions base model has most extras that others make you pay extra for
@@TITANSofCNC so? They should post the price of the base model at least
It would be awesome if you could do some videos highlighting your maintenance department and how they operate.
100%
Its simple. Dirty shops have zero work ethic. Clean ones have 100%.
You can't teach work ethic. 😬
Yes, I would very much like to see this as well.
Yes I work machine maintenance and very interested.
Yeah, we do our own maintenance being maintenance support machinist. I would be very interested!
So one of these is comparable to the base price of the equivalent Haas? Or is it comparable to the price of the Haas after adding equivalent features? Either way that's a big deal! Just important to know that distinction. But since their prices aren't published, it basically doesn't matter.
If DN Systems/Doosan truly wants to compete against Haas in this meat-and-potatoes, entry to mid-level VMC market. they HAVE to 100% absolutely start showing plainly their prices, at least on their core, base level type machines like the DNM series. Tell the world it's $45k or $60k or whatever it is. Because Haas does.
With Haas I can build and price the exact machine I want for hours from my desk for fun, getting hyped up about the idea of a VF2SS and whether I want this or that feature to be better suited to what we're gonna make. Between me and the other people in my group, we can feel engaged by the process. We can do some noodling. There is an engagement there. I 10000% do not want to rely on communicating our needs to a sales person and then trusting them to TELL ME what we should get. And then trust them to give us the BEST PRICE.
When my group bought our first CNC machines we went with Haas because every single other company that offered machines, we just didn't know what the prices/features/logistics were. I was liking the features of those machines but I didn't feel it was worth our time to even bother calling those companies up because of the hassle. Heck even Haas when we did finally call up and say "hey we are interested in this-that-the-other thing" and went to visit the HFO, the sales people started going into it and before long they're putting together machine package quotes for literally 2x the budget we were talking about at first. It's like "no, I don't want a VM4, we started here talking about a TM2P."
The sales guys DO NOT GIVE A CRAP, and none are interested to work within a strict budget or try to work to get you the most possible machine for your specific needs at the lowest dollar amount. I've got salesmen in my family, I know how they work. So I keep sales people out of my life and business whenever possible and will go out of my way to remove them from our purchasing loop.
At least Haas, they publish the numbers independent of the sales guy. You can configure the exact thing you want, and tell the Sales guy to take that $4000 add-on and shove it. Sign me up for what I want.
If Doosan did that 2 years ago, I could have gone to my partners and said "well I just went and looked and Doosan machines are similar price, or cheaper, than the VF2 I'm looking at; and we could get a lot more features for the money: plus they have advantages in the machine and so on." but since I didn't have a price from Doosan, it's a non-starter. I know what the Haas costs. I know it does most of what I need. I can go online and see tons of videos and examples of people (including on this channel) making Haas machines work for them. So it's a safe bet. Easy to stop looking further even if there's some compelling stuff out there. So why even start to shop around to other machine tools if they're probably going to be 20-40% outside our price range for a machine of the same specs anyway and especially if they act like they don't want to deal with a small company like us?
If DN Systems just aren't concerned with the startups and the small companies, and only want big clients with purchasing departments, Doosan can keep doing what they're doing.
If they truly are trying to break into that new-shop, entry-level tool market that Haas has cornered, and market themselves as being cheaper than Haas, a better alternative to Haas, more machine for less money, etc; they need to prove it. Give us machinists who are trying to convince the boss (even if that's the wife) the tools we need to sell the idea. Haas gives me everything I need right on their website. No human interaction required. Doosan still hasn't figured that out, so they will continue to struggle with this old-school "we need to lure you in to contacting us" mentality left over from the days of telegraph and horses.
Let me be specific, after our brief period of emailing back and forth with the HFO telling them what we wanted, we ended up with a VF2 and an ST10. I am happy enough with both and I understand how to use them. I also see major flaws with the machines. I can foresee in another year our company getting new machines to augment or replace the current ones as we grow. I really am looking at DN Systems as a good potential alternative to move to (especially if the Haas gives us any expensive problems in the next year) as I like a lot of things about the machine over the Haas. But it's a different control, so, that's a concern. And differences in other logistics ways. And ultimately I still have no idea if they'd actually be price competitive to just sticking with the Haas, without starting a whole quote process. But, I know what a UMC500 costs, or a ST-20Y; so as long as they haven't upset me I could really save myself headache just sticking to Haas and basing my purchasing strategy around their machines/costs. So maybe we stick with a Haas Y-axis lathe, or Haas 5-axis, even tho a DN machine might be better, simply because we're already on the Haas train. And the only reason we're on that train, and not possibly already running a Doosan, is because Haas showed their hand, gave the world a price in red that we could take to the boss and the bank.
In any case definitely interested in seeing how this SVM behaves in the field. I'd love to see what one with a 4th axis setup could do.
Clear pricing builds trust.
Agreed. I did actually end up going with the DNS for other reasons (this is the short comment. I’m happy to expand on anything later). I got this exact machine, brand new factory mint (even with the new little set of Allen keys) SVM 4100. I got the probe and toolsetter added. It was just a touch over $98,000. I live in Granbury TX, rigging was $2,080 from their nearest base. Doesn’t come with spindle chiller oil, but you need it so add in ~$300 for 5 gallons. I am personal friends with one of the VP’s of Ellison Technologies, I’m happy to answer any questions about my machine or get you the price of anything you want to know
I took the time to read your comment and I have to say that I’m bothered you feel that way. I sell DN machines and treat every customer the same. From the small guys that only have two machines to the people with 300 machines.
Regarding pricing, we’re extremely upfront with out pricing. We work with the customer to identify their needs and do our best to point them in the right direction.
Shoot me a PM if you would. I’d love to help you out however I can!
Haas some strong competition in terms of machine value for money. I had an opportunity to choose a new CNC mill for our shop. It was between Haas VF4SS and a DMG CMX 1100V (fully spec.) and I was supprised that the prices between the two were almost the same. At the end decided for the DMG and it is a superb machine.
Previously I worked on a 2012 ecoLine 1100V and 2013 ecoLine 600V, now I work on last year made DMG CMX 1100V Maybe not full spec, but it has 20 bar through spindle coolant and inlineMaster 15k rpm spindle. I really like this machine.
And Sinumerik control is just so good, user-friendly and efficient to use compared to Haas software.
funny I hate the cmx. I'm trading in mine for a Haas right now
@@theswisstickler9828 why?
The CMX 1100 is a great machine. We’ve got 2 of them. But yes, a Haas similarly specd is right there with it on price. And so are the Mazaks.
@@mrt6399 Sheet metal vibrates, FANUC is outdated, i don't like DNC, the chips don't flow down at all, they don't put the cells control on it, safety features are overkill, my first one was so bad they swapped it out for free(tool changer), and more......
What an awesome machine! New machine day is always a great day in for the shop!
Competition is good! It holds companies accountable and makes sure they are always striving to improve and produce a good product. As we all know, the cream always rises to the top! Without competition, companies could produce a garbage and overpriced machine and customers would have nowhere else to go.
Well said! And DNS is making strides in R&D and listening to the customers to make sure they stay ahead of the curve and deliver machines that customers need and want.
@@ellisontechnologies Yeah absolutely! It shows in their new SVM 4100 and all the other machines in their massive lineup! 💪
@@ellisontechnologies y'all just sold me a machine. Love it.
@@wannabecarguy awesome! Glad you're loving your machine.
Nah he’s Doing this cuz hass dropped him for using DN. He’s doing it cuz he salty about the whole thing. If you look back threw the CZcams history. He deleted all the positive hass videos cuz he’s that angry.
I work on haas from 2020 and 2017 and unfortunately you can see a significant deterioration in quality on the new machine compared to the old one
Was it because of the volume of orders, quality control decay, or demoralization of the workers because of the Haas F1 team?
Please reply if only to tell me, "No! That's a stupid idea."
@@JayKayKay7 With my experience owning a 2008 VF5 50 XT and a 2020 VF3 YT 50, the 2008 holds up better than the 2020, there's definitely a decline in quality and precision.
😂i agree! we have two new Haas machines in our shop(less than 1 year old) and they have lots of problem compared to the old Haas. 😢And we have to call the Haas technician almost every month.
No more Haas for me. I am literally repairing one right now, a 2019. I can see the details. As an engineer, I understand the details.
No more. Done. Goodbye.
2018 is right around the time when they started to go down hill, around the time they swapped the Stainless steel facia on the control to an aluminum one instead. I think it was also around 2018/2019 when they started to have a ton of software issues in the NGC control. There was a guy who literally went to start up his VF2SSYT and it dropped the spindle head into the table....and from my understanding it happened to several other customers that had machines built around that time frame. You can also tell a decline from old to new as they keep widening the tolerance ranges on what is acceptable on the machine. Its all about volumes and the fact they are trying to make more and more and have been rushing them. Their expansion into Nevada may help, but it may also kill them due to not having a fully trained workforce to engineer, machine, and build their machine lineup.
Looking forward to seeing that drill performance.
Thanks Titan crew!
Legit great info, less advertisement feeling for the machine tool company. Good thoughts!
'Like curious heifers in the field, the metal workers are drawn to the new object in their kingdom.
The excitement spreads through the herd as the object is inspected.
Hahaha are you calling Barry and Jessie heifers? 😂
👊
Had my SVM4100 for a year now and love it! Can’t wait to see what you can do with this machine!
How much have you paid for It?
The biggest issue the competitors of Haas have are their marketing. When I bought my first machines 2 years ago, I didn't have any industry connections, and it was difficult to get pricing on new machines as everything was locked behind salesmen. Haas has their entire pricing system set up like a car dealership. Choose the model and build to fit and the MSRP is right there - then all you have to do is haggle the discount with the salesman.
With everyone else, the options are often not readily shown, the machine lists and availability are not shown publicly, you have to talk to a salesman for each piece of information, and depending on how good the salesman is (I really wanted Doosan machines, but the salesman in my area was very difficult to contact and getting information and pricing was a chore for me - to be fair, I have a bit of phone anxiety).
I ended up buying 2 haas machines, and then after a year purchasing a brother speedio. I still wish that I could have gotten doosan or hurco for my first 2 machines, but at the end of the day, Haas is very capable of making good parts too - it just takes a bit more effort due to the limitations in their design (I really hate my haas tailstocks...)
Everyone hates the Haas tailstocks :P
@@highlightguy5464 I interested to know have you told HAAS why you hate their tail stock if they get a lot of bad feedback maybe they will fix it.
Exactly! I wish other companies would be a little more transparent like Haas for pricing.
Apologies for any difficulties you may have had in acquiring information about DNS machines. We take feedback seriously and are continuously making strides and efforts to improve wherever we can. If you're ever in the market for a DNS machine again, we'll be happy to support you.
@@ellisontechnologies The biggest issue was that Titan of CNC was advertising a Doosan mill and lathe deal that was incredibly good and exactly what we were looking for, and I was wanting to pull the trigger on it, but the local Ellison branch had never heard of it, and was unable to come remotely close to it - it was almost 2 years ago, but I think there was a 20-25% price delta from what was advertised nationally to what was actually offered locally which just didn't work for us.
Thank you for responding though!
That drill looked like the new go-tip for the ken-tip line. Our rep was in today to test the new barracuda drill on one of our parts and mentioned letting us test that one too!
04:10 "It's not small, it's like super compact, but it's like, super beefy, yknow?"
I believe the word you're looking for is thicc
These are the kinds of unboxings I like to see!
I buy HAAS because it’s an American machine tool company that make their machines in the USA. Their upfront pricing and support videos and local support are great also! I will continue to support my community by manufacturing in America and with American made products to the best of my ability. Win Win Solutions!
With that mentality hass can built a potato. You will buy the potato as a patriot and wonder how i make parts with it. You can't. You can eat potatoes.
Thats stupid. You buy haas because it fits what you need. Should be decission process that you use you buy any machine
@@Z-addisn’t “made in America” what titan preaches 😂 you’re a 🤡🤣
@@ContrarianCrusade DN solutions machines are indeed made in America by a south korean company.
@@Z-add cheap shot
Price transparency is a big issue in the industry as a whole. I think Ellison / DNS is vastly underestimating how much business that costs them
I own 3 Doosan’s (oldest being a 2019 model) and I love them all! Had a svm on order but canceled it due to a lot of circumstances (unrelated to finances). I saw one on person and it is quick. I can’t speak for svm, but my dnms blow vf2’s out of the water. Just my opinion. Contact your local Doosan distributor. They are not much more if at all more expensive than Haas with the same options. The difference is you can pick and choose what you want with Haas. If you can get a Haas stripped down to nothing and can actually utilize it with minimal options, it’s a route to consider. If you need thru spindle coolant, thru air, 12k, high speed machining, etc. Doosan is the way. Haas still uses coolant from the sump to chill their spindles. Doosan’s have an oil jacket chiller. Running all day or most of the day at 12k it makes a huge difference in how hot the spindle gets. Btw I don’t hate Haas. For what you get though and how close pricing is, there are better options. My service in my local area has also been exceptional.
Haas is stuck in the early 2010's, in some parts they are even stuck in the 2000's. That does not mean they are bad, they are more than capable for the stuff a lot of shops are doing. They still charge for "HSM" which is nothing like the High speed/high feed stuff for mold and die work you are getting on Fanuc or other controls. People also need to realize that Haas isn't just made in the USA. They source their castings and a lot of other parts from all over the world, some castings are even Chinese - and have been for YEARS now. Still impressive they can pull the assembly off in California though. They revolutionized the early internet era of CNC machining with their Tech Tips videos and easy accessibility to their pricing and configurators. Most other brands aren't even on that level now (most don't want open pricing/configurators generally). But on the other hand, it's 2024 and they have like 3 light duty 5 axis mills, any other mid level 5 axis (Doosan, Taiwanese brands, or a basic entry DMU 50,...) blows them completely out of the water.. I sometimes wonder how they are still in business to be honest.
Doosan's prime began around 2016/17, and they already had a much bigger lineup than Haas ever had. They are also a way bigger corporation. They go up to gantry mills and actually have a industry renowned horizontal lineup, plus very nice lathes that have been selling well for years. Haas lathes are hated like no other, but can't say anything about that myself, never used one. They aren't even that affordable here. I remember the Daewoo-Doosan times, lot of lathes here in Europe from that time. Good on DN getting more and more popular than others. Even though I hate the name DN solutions, please go back to Doosan without the silly emblem from the baseball team lol
Competition is good. This will improve both companies machines. Going after the VF2SS is a tall mountain to climb. We have 4 of them and they are animals. The performance, reliability and ease of use is unbelievable. I’ve looked at the doosans and in that realm it’s a no go. For other applications like their 9 axis mill turn doosan is the winner by far.
Agreed. Have you seen the sorry excuse of a mill turn that Haas came out with? JOKE
@@akronimm862 which one the new little one with the BMT45? We have a bunch of the new gen ST20Y dual spindles and aside from the part catcher needing some modifications to work well with the sub-spindle they are ultra productive. We are doing complex parts on them that everyone told us you can’t do on a machine under $500k. Not only can we run them and hold tolerance but two $250k machines produce more parts per shift than the $500k machine does.
I own 1 HAAS, for the money I have ZERO complaints, but "Animal" is not a term I would use to describe any HAAS.
Haas is well known in Europe for low cost, low performance machines.
Our Haas machines are very reliable. The spindles are bulletproof and tool changes are easy. We also have Makino, Maxak, and DMG Mori.
This industry is constantly moving, shifting, and taking new turns. Every level of machine, from the hobbyist types to the Lamborghinis, is open to competition for "top" performer. If you continue to innovate and listen to your customers you can hold your position for a long time; fail to do these things however and eventually someone else will do it for you.
I am pumped! Haas VF2's are great but competition benefits everyone.
Customer support and quality of service is also an important factor here. Nobody likes to see a machine out of commission.
From my experience, DN Solutions and Ellison Technologies have a strong customer support base. It doesn’t go unnoticed.
We take pride in the support we offer to our customers. More than just a distributor delivering more than just a machine. 👊
I can't wait to see it in action to see what it can do.
My experience with Haas is this. I worked in a very high end medical device prototype shop. We had a Hermle , DMU50 , and a Willemin-Macodel to name a few. We bought a Haas to do plastic for one of our less experienced employees. He loved the controller however after 14 months the tool changer wouldn’t function and a new one had to be installed. This was out of warranty and we had to pay the full price. The machine was run very easy and had no crashes.
This is the unboxing any machine shop owner would love.
can you do a video about drilling hardened powder steels? Something like 56-60 rockwell?
You can spend mega $$$$ and have the newest, fastest cnc machine out there. Bottom-lone is, if you don't have the know. It doesn't matter who's brand you have. If you don't have the work to make those payments, repo man doesn't give a shit what brand it is. It'll sell at auction to the highest bidder for 1/3 to 1/4 your purchase price.
I'm looking at this machine for our machine shop as well. I look forward to seeing what you do with this machine. Time to modernize our shop and replace that 1984 mill.
Oh man!
When you're ready our team is happy to help you get one put into your shop!
oh bloody great, Ive just took delivery of a haas mini mill, i brought it 1, was the floor space 2, cost £30,000. Its my first cnc with tool change, I could do with more staff but opted for the mill because if I took someone one this machine is paid for with one year wages and if I get slack of work I can turn it off, hope i made the right decision but im not in the market of mass producing im a job shop with plates that need bit of milling but mainly drill and tapping and im not down to the wire on times on jobs as most stuff is done on manual mills with god for saken drill chuck changing, center drill then drill then tap then counter sink . I looked at doosan but they were too costly and took up more space and if i buy a machine into the 50 to 70k range then its got to earn its money but 30k is ok.
I ran lots of parts on Haas for many years… Your in good hands on your level with a MiniMill. SVM specially is priced to compete with the SS models from Haas.
@@TITANSofCNC Thanks guys 👍👍👍👍 I dont think i would ever be in the type of work you do its a different skill level, yes the machine does the work but the guy pushing buttons has it in their head.
More machine for the money, and if you're getting your DNSA machines from Ellison Technologies, you'll get our comprehensive support to back it up. The SVM is an incredible machine and we're excited to put more of these in shops across the US. If there's anyone that will be able to show off the true speed of this beast, it's Titan. Let's go!
can you suggest the general neighborhood price range on a machine like this? $50k; $60k? $75k? and no, I don't want to call my local Ellison and ask for a quote because this isn't happening this year.
@@jonbaker3728 Prices will differ per territory. You already know the suggestion will be to call your territory representative. Even if you’re not looking to purchase a machine this year, you can still get some of the ground work out of the way.
@@Sara-TOC And that is why I hate machine tool companies. Just tell me a damn MSRP but NOPE, only haas does that.
@@jonbaker3728 agreed. Ellison does a damn good job of supporting my older Daewoo lathes, but I don't like the methodology and lack of openness about pricing anything new. I had them quote a machine for me at the same time a buddy had them quote the exact same machine for his shop and we got two wildly different prices. We made our distaste known to the sales rep and both went elsewhere. Maybe it was an isolated incident, but discouraging nonetheless.
@@jonbaker3728 the DN Solutions website has the MSRP listed at $78,500. But as mentioned, the price may fluctuate based on region and specific machine (new build vs inventory machine).
You have an amazing team.
I really like the SVM series from DN, the value for money is certainly there. I hope Gene is paying attention, thats all I will say.....
If he's not, DN Solutions is. With the name change, DN Solutions is focusing on R&D and listening to the customer.
@@ellisontechnologies is that why they changed the name?
@@mrt6399 Years ago Doosan Machine Tools separated from Doosan Infracore, but was allowed to use the Doosan name for an agreed period of time. Over the last several years, Doosan Machine Tools has built its brand and reputation, which was only fitting that it earned it's own name. So with DN Solutions under a new parent company, the name changed with the established focus on R&D, innovation, and customer's needs.
@@ellisontechnologies
We had a Doosan Z290SMY _ Fanuc 18i-TB, 8-axis dual turret - dual spindle made by Doosan Mecatec, after they were taken over by Doosan Infracore all help - support - parts etc. etc. stopped. 🤔🤔 😁😁
Let's hope this DN Solutions is only a "name change", not a manufacturer change.
@@ytfan3815 I can't speak for the transition from Doosan Mecatec to Doosan Infracore, but Doosan Machine Tools has been separate from Doosan Infracore for several years, but was only using the Doosan name for a set period of time. The name change now, is more about Doosan Machine Tools being able to have their own name to represent the brand and reputation they're built. The manufacturer is still the same, just a name change and a push to focus on R&D and building better machines that customers want.
Haas is good value if you can accept close to base spec. If you kit them out fully with all the good stuff then you should definitely get some quotes from other brands to compare.
A lot of the initial price difference comes from higher base specs on most of the European and Asian brands.
I am preparing to make moves to purchase my own machine. So when I see these, they help out.... also I saw dns at imts, which helps. 😆
My work recently purchased a vf2 ss and that high flow pump is loud and obnoxious and we still waiting on haas to come fix bugs in the controls system
Didn't know about these, looks good. I'm looking at getting a new Mazak ez line, they are also breaking into the affordable market but still delivering a higher end product. I'll make some videos with it once I get it.
Happy new machine day man BOOM 💥!
I am so Excited to have one of DN SULUTIONS ladies 🥰🥰🤩🤩🤩
Wonder how much of the haas market this doosan and the mazak ez series and such will actually take
Nice looking hunk of iron there.................
All the whiny comments here about MTB's don't show their prices online or up front. Woopty doo...........Are you all that afraid of picking up the phone and talking to a sales rep? And a lot of you sayin' that it's the reason Haas sells machines? 🙄🙄 I buy my machines with a balance of quality, price, and application. Haas will ALWAYS come up in 2nd place. I have Haas, Doosans, and Brothers on my floor. I'm slowly purging all of the Haas iron and buying better valued, better built, and better performing machines.
Is there a big cost difference between the old Ct40 and the Dual taper holders? Can you use regular Ct40 holders in it for things like simple drilling or something that doesn't require the rigidity or dual contact precision? Price or performance difference between the dual taper and just going Hsk?
Hi George
Not a huge difference in cost
Check out maritool to see this
Yes you can mix ct40 and big plus
Watch out for chips as there is a gap on CT40 and big plus won't tolerate any chips in this area. I try to use all big plus but we do mix ct40 and big plus.
Hsk is better for higher speed such as above 20k rpm,, capto as well. Big plus is excellent for heavy cuts, I don't think you have to worry big plus is excellent. If you want a higher end machine, hsk or capto would be a step up but in this class big plus cat 40 is a great choice and we run this, I am very satisfied with it.
Just got a brand new DNM 6700 and cant wait to put my hands on it to make some good chips! First time on a machine of that caliber, any tip or trick about it? 😬
So after adding all the bells and whistles to the machines even a 4th axis what will be the comparison in price
So did Doosan change its name DN Solutions? If that's the case it doesn't make a lot of sense owning a company based in Texas and supporting a company based outside the US to save a dollar just my opinion.
I make billet engine blocks on 5 axixs Haas. Its the Designer, Programmer and Operator. When u do all 3 you have a skill that many people don't!
You are such a happy employer
I wish I could come work for you.
I feel like I could go from a basic nobody machinist just fixing other guys programs to something of value maybe have a better look on life.
Love my Job and Love my Team… Thanks
@@TITANSofCNC positivity is contagious. much love titan!
Everyone knows that DOOSAN is one of the most durable machines and that they have really good price, but still they don't have their prices listed like HAAS. I always say, you can have high performance drill that can go 3x faster than maybe some other, but if it cost 1000 $, are you really gonna pay it off? It is better have lower performance level HM drills with TSC holes, but all standard diameters than few best, and rest HSS. So it would be nice to have prices listed just to get some idea where you at, and then maybe get some additional discount. Same think with Kennametal, I can not see prices of theirs products.
Hi Barry, you are looking great in this video!
😂😂hi DP
My Hurco is best. Monster machine and superb rigidity😁
I want to buy a cool slidey EDM thingy like a Texas Flag with the star cutout to go up and down and the top surface a wave.
Made out of unobtanium and a rainbow-tempered surface finish.
I would spend up to $100 dollars for a 4x6 one.
Ycm /supermax tried this. We bought some, and now we’re stuck with machines you have to wait 5 months to get a spindle replaced.
Can you do something on managing a sales department?
I noticed you failed to mention that Haas Machines are made in the USA. And Doosan machines are made in South Korea.
I don't have any problem with the Haas company model when it comes to features. It makes sense from a business standpoint to have just one controller that does everything and you have to pay to have upgrades unlocked. It costs about the same to manufacture the parts, and the programming is already done and paid for. Hell, I use that business model myself. The more you pay me the more you get out of me.
The other point that isn't mentioned is that Doosan uses Fanuc controls so if you have issues, you have to figure out who to call-Doosan or Fanuc. God help you if you need to have parts replaced as Fanuc costs 1.5-2x that of Haas to repair. Couple that with the current supply issues and I personally would rather have something made in the USA vs something made in South Korea and has to be shipped in via container ship.
@@americansubgunner6053 Yeah, Fanuc is expensive. Their over the phone tech support is really good though and they will go out of their way to help you over the phone. But like you said, if it isn't in their controller, their standard response is call the machine builder.
Just got ours a couple weeks ago. There's a few hiccups we're working through with Ellison but nothing major. I will say that the finish on our parts is very nice when directly compared to our other machine tool brand. This is our third DN Solutions machine this year and counting.
Really hope it will hold the price comparison when reachy the European shores...
How does this compare to the DEM4000?
And is that a robodrill I saw in the background?
The DEM 4000 is intended to be a training machine, not meant for actual production. Although people have used the DEM for actual production, we do not recommend it. The SVM however is built for speed and accuracy.
We just commissioned our new DN Mynx 5100 50 taper. It's our second one. The first replaced an old Johnford 50 taper and this one is replacing a Daewoo Mynx 40 taper.
Speaking of which, anyone wanna buy my old Daewoo 40 taper? Runs good but it's old.
have you ever thought about trying to machine wood? i mean, i know it works, i work in a pattern shop where we do it, but how fast can we go? how good of a finish is feasable to achieve? that would be interesting
We actually have a customer that uses a DNM to machine guitars. Their DNM 5700S helped them with a 2/3 reduction in cycle time and a 50% reduction in sanding time.
They do have a video machining wood
@@vanguard6937 In case my comment that had the link gets automatically removed, you can visit our website. ellisontechnologies dot com/prs to see the video.
So in other words... they got this machine for free also.
In other words, shout out to DN Solutions for doing their part to support free education for this industry. It’s not for us, it’s for all the people that want to learn about this incredible trade and provide for their families.
@@trevorgoforth8963 very heart felt. You don't advertise things you don't get for free. I've been in the industry for 32 years
How do you guys feel about hurco
Do they make a single phase version that will fit in a 7ft garage?
Does it run on single phase or three phase power?
👍
Base price is fine but not including additional peripherals does not make much sense
Dnm is the new standard I work on two dns everyday that now have just shy of 200 hours and a horizontal from 2015
Haas AMERICAN MADE!
Let’s keep American jobs alive remember titan
wow so cool machine 👍
Also have a look on Tachyon series of Jyoti CNC @TITANS of CNC MACHINING
What does anyone think of Hurco machines? Are they worth it?
I like work on UMC 750 Haas.
How are these compared to Mazak?
HAAS, probably, are not even trying to compete. Their machines are just simply outdated. When Mazatrol teacher was in our shop, he told us, that HAAS themselves admitted, that they can't compete with companies, like Mazak, which machines are a lot faster, and way more rigid, than HAAS machines on the same operations. He told us a story, that when he was participating in the installation of Mazak's mill in one workshop, and written a program for a specific part - owners asked him to convert this program also for their HAAS mill, so they can run it simultaneously on two mills. And it turned out, that HAAS mill just can't handle Mazak's cutting speeds and workloads. Also, HAAS is just a few years younger, than Daewoo's machine tool subdivision, and they established their company in a period, when CNC was still raw and new for everyone, and there was a lot of time to level out with others. But, Daewoo's machine tool subdivision, which has already changed it's owner twice, evolved more drastically, than HAAS. They had some exotic form-factor machines in Daewoo era, they had 5-axis lathes during Doosan era, and now heading to premium segment during DN Solutions era. While HAAS, it seems, are just continuing to make their 90's and 2000's models with minor design and software updates.
Our Haas machines are very reliable. The spindles are bulletproof and tool changes are easy. We also have Makino, Maxak, and DMG Mori.
HOW exciting! Oah man!
Where's it made?
Looks DN and Mazak are coming in to compete with Haas.
Titan in the future would you ever consider getting an Okuma?
Depends on applications….
right now I have DN Solutions for the majority and have HELLER coming in for the highest level. Okuma sits a little above DN but is priced way above.
@@TITANSofCNC thanks for replying titan. I find it cool that you actually reply to us. Keep up the good stuff, God bless.
We've been running Okuma lathes for 20 years, cutting 17-4PH stainless all day every day. We had a Crown, still have a Captain and an LB, as well as a Millac mill/turn. High quality, dependable machines that rarely crap out. But boy, be prepared to pay when they do.
You guys have a yasda?
POV: haas stops paying you to advertise their machines so you find another company to do it
Lol not at all 😂. Better machine, same price. All the bells and whistles without paying for an add on like Haas’ STUPID high speed machining 😂😂😂
@@barrysetzer you are very correct about that. I hate software locks, especially if the hardware is already there. Lots of companies do this and it’s never okay
Can't beat new toys day :)
I worked in a machine shop that made pride mobility and other power chairs for the elderly. They had all types of machinery to do the job including robot welders. I do miss working on metal sometimes.
Haas pricing is ridiculous. TSP , Z raising (8 longer bolts and 2 peace of steel that’s not aligned…) 15k or more. FF milling etc etc. Idiot pricing
Fortunately, DN Solutions machines comes with tons of features built-in to give you more bang for your buck.
I’ve sold all my Doosans. True story. I’ve sold all but one haas also but would buy more.
Haas made more money in sale and I never had and problems with it. The Doosans were mediocre but the service was the worst bit. Basically ok but spares were fall off your chair expensive for no reason.
Just my personal experience putting down my own cash over a decade of using them.
Just buy a matsuura instead 😂
The dealer makes a huge difference. We had a Daewoo Mynx 40T that has been a TROOPER for 21 years cutting 17-4 stainless all day every day. Just replaced it last week with a Doosan/DN Mynx 5100 50T - so now we have two DN 50 tapers.
@@GroovesAndLands this 10,000%
My main issue was they sold me them as a turnkey to do something they realistically weren’t man enough to do. I’m sure they would have been fine for other jobs
Oh and the Doosan Swiss machines…. Yeah. They phoned me for advice on how to fix them 🤣
@@GroovesAndLands this 10,000%
My main issue was they sold me them as a turnkey to do something they realistically weren’t man enough to do. I’m sure they would have been fine for other jobs
Oh and the Doosan Swiss machines…. Yeah. They phoned me for advice on how to fix them 🤣
What do you guys do with the machines that you want to retire? You should do giveaways for small businesses like me 🤣
Why don't you bolt your machined to the floor ?
If building better machine than haas was all it takes to beat them then someone would have done long ago.
No upfront pricing.
Hows dealer and tech infrastructure?
How well are controllers integrated?
How much customization you can do on it ?
4th and 5th axis integration ?
Haas has become so proprietary with there NGC. I can't even get to some of my parameters without the control key. As a manager it is very frustrating having to call them for simple stuff I can do.
I love machine day
Have you guys had problems with your Haas machines? I'm reading about some people who have had them be so problematic that after months, zero parts produced and Haas no longer communicates with them WHILE demanding payments ????
the new machines with the new controller are shit.
I run 4 VF6s all day every day. One was built in 2017, one in 2020, and two in 2021. They have been pretty much flawless minus the way covers. They hold tolerance in X and Y well, and z floats a little. If you interpolate a .750 hole itll be about .0003-.0005 out if round which for the price of the machine is good.
I run a 2021 y axis haas lathe at my shop, minus a few hiccups with the bar feeder, the machine has performed excellent. Runs high production pretty much all day and night
Our Haas machines are very reliable. The spindles are bulletproof and tool changes are easy. We also have Makino, Maxak, and DMG Mori.
🤣i never seen any guys working in this shop....maybe this shop is only for promotional shooting videos🤦♂️🤦♂️
Where are they getting the money for all these machines? from my understanding they don't do actual paid manufacturing work they just do the cnc academy
Can tell you in south africa Hass went from a huge dealership to a hole in the wall
Fanuc Robodrill?
asia is a very strong competitor in machine tool area
Where is the SVM4100 made? Is it an American machine?
I like the name of that company.
I don't know man if the machine is small or you guys are giants 🤣
It’s got the same table size as the VF2ss and ya, we are pretty big guys. But at the same time… it’s all about the work envelop and technology. Smaller is better if you have the same work envelop
i lost my mind to puma mx2100st... now i can't feel anything.
How much it cost for one machine
Frankly fed up with my company's haas. I'm repairing it every month
They had to write haas on the side of the machine as they wouldn't have sold any if they wrote the word crap on it instead.