@@lyonvensa i think it's personal approach for different players, i usually played a new hero against bots (unfair, with only me on the team) to get used to the hero, i don't like spending much time in demo cuz it doesn't give you the understanding of movement and spell cooldowns really
Hey Grubby, I have literally played only Invoker throughout my Dota journey and I have to say - for a first timer you did super super well. There are just too many nuances with this hero, but once you get a hang of it, which will come probably after 100 of games, you will realize the potential of this hero is insane. You can play it anyway you like. You have all my praise for this game. 🎉🎉
I agree, the level hes playing considering its his first time. I imagine, as a first time invoker and also new in Dota2 there is so much going on that you have to absorb at once during all this and he is doing well honestly
The curious part of it is that negative damage healing is actually how it works on Tabletop RPGs, though, so it does make sense if it were a lot of other games
Negative damage is actually how most triggered healing spells worked in dota1 since you couldn't make one unit heal another unit, so if you wanted to easily track the source of the healing you just make a unit deal negative damage instead. You could generically add HP but then you have to do a bunch of extra work to track the source of the healing. It's the same reason HP removal damage did not credit kills for a long time, like if someone died to Necro's aura it would just count as a suicide.
This could seriously be the most impressive first game invoker of all time -- certainly the best first invoker game Ive ever seen -- particularly given Grubby has been playing DOTA for all of a couple weeks period. Honestly its a bit mind blowing considering. I mean, he was literally getting better by the minute as the game went on. Crazy stuff. If Grubby got serious about getting better and got someone to actually coach him full time, he legit could be a top tier player in just a couple months, I have no doubt. Edit: the funniest part is the skywrath flaming him doesnt even believe its his first ever game of invoker.
@Ultormento it's almost like he's a pretty smart pro gamer who already understands the base mechanics and applications of dota hero fighting from playing fuggin wc3 for a career.
ikr, i am no pro esp in invo but we know how it was played watching pros, and Grubby really went from i wish he use this/that spell to POG in first game, esp mid game he was really good.
Invoker is definitely one of the hardest heroes in Dota 2. At least characters like Meepo you just need good micro with multiple units, something that a pro RTS player will find easy.
The memorizing part is really the only thing that makes it considered the hardest hero. It takes time but you get the muscle memory for his skills after a while. Being good at meepo imo takes a bit more effort and not everyone goes into dota a micro legend
@@bomberguy1921 to a new player? Sure, but for most of us who've played knowing when to use your skills is something that applies to every hero and is a skill you should already have developed after a while. Again, your answer on who's harder just depends on how comfortable you are with micro.
@@tofuteh2348 I would like to add that what makes invoker the hardest hero to play is the versatility of the hero in both early and mid game and players ability to play all those styles of invoker. Two days ago, in a single day I had to play full exort early snowball invoker with bkb aghs refresher, after that I had to go full wex invoker with vessel, veil of discord, utility cc invoker. And later that day I had to play full right click invoker with maelstorm, eye of skadi. Thats what makes the hero hard. Knowing how to play the simplest exort invoker and being able to get early kills means nothing on this hero. Its the fact that your orbs and your abilities give you posibilty to adapt to the game a lot. So once learning to play all those different styles and actually performing on them makes it hard. In lower brackets people just plaz full blown exort invoker always with the same build midas, aghs hex bkb. And if you know your combos, that is actually the simplest style of playing.
Or just be good at both so you can say you’ve mastered the hardest there is on dota so everything else is easy is what I told myself. And to this day I’ve never mastered tinker, techies, and arc warden. Chen and Pandaren was easy because of WC3.
One of the coolest designed heroes in a MOBA. The only other that I can think of that compares is Cho'Gall from HOTS which require 2 players to pilot IIRC. But dear Lord you could not pay me to win with this hero
Dota is the true moba of warcraft. I played Data as a WC3 mod map and it always felt like and still feels like I'm playing with the warcraft 3 feeling of the heroes. Also well done on first game of invoker he's very hard to use.
Very disappointed in the chat but I assume a lot of them are new viewers. Fantastic job Grubby. Remembering every invoker spell in your first game is already a challenge, doing so in the middle of an A-Z challenge is even harder. People also forget the spell rotation/conveyor belt/cooldown juggling.
The chat gives me an aneurysm every time I'm watching. Props to Grubby, I'm sure it gives him some cathartic nostalgia of how he used to be back in the day, though. Said he used to be a hotshot
I have a thousand games on Invoker (which isn't a lot), and I think its a highly impressive game for a first time. Its easy to get pressured using a hero that has so many buttons to push, and with teammates wanting you to use them like all at the same time, in an instant. There is no easy way to learn this hero. You just play, and play, and play it, till things just starts to feel natural.
I stopped playing Dota around 3 years ago. Watching your videos made me want to play again. Love the videos. Hope you have a long and fun time with Dota!
Grubby is the best thing thhat happened to dota communitty in a long time. I always aprecciated the WC3 videos; and his content made me come back to dotta withh a fresh mind. Ty, friend.
Hello! Your occasional Chatter! Hope Grubby reads this if he ever plans to spend a day learning invoker. Invoker has 4 levels of learning. Basic Invoker involves memorizing spells (and their orbs) and the spell combos. Thats were Grubby at this game. Still havent memorized other combos like tornado>meteor>deafening>sunstrike/snap, etc. Intermediary Invoker involves mastering these combos and positioning well in teamfights. Alot of his skills are not spammable and requires abit of skillshot/positioning. Advanced Invoker involves cooldown awareness and item choices. Invoker is one of the most flexible heroes, especially in late game. His weakness ofc is getting to late game. He can go right click build with alacrity/snap/forged build. CC aoe monster w/ octarine refresher. Gank build. Split push. Etc. And then there is the ultimate invoker. I havent seen these types of invoker in a long time but some people attempt it. These players min max everything on its skills. Choosing the right order of orb (orb awareness) so that only one press of orb then invoke is the norm rotation. All of its items and on the backpack are items that have actives. Most of these players do the split push type build since doing these things in teamfights is incredibly taxing.
Honestly I think anyone who isn't confident on invo is better off going to offlane as pos 4 and going for a quas wex build as a situational pick against mana reliant heroes like bristle or dusa. It's a great way to learn without the high pressure of being in middle.
Midas actually is not about farming gold faster, but farming experience faster, for heroes like invoker level is the most important thing. Read descriptions of items to refresh your memories and getting new ideas. Good luck with your journey!
It's funny that they're mad because looking at how he plays it looks good. They didn't know it's his first time. I can see the panic he's in during the clash.
Yo I hope you didn't take all of Skywrath's flaming in this game to heart; sure early on you missed a couple of spots for good spell use as you were getting used to the hero, but for the majority of the fights (and especially later on) you were really pumping out spells and using them pretty dang well. Skywrath was tilted as hell and was just vomitting words in to the chat which were totally wrong, and then straight up said you were lying when you told him it was your first game because his ego couldn't take the idea that you might actually be doing pretty fucking well given your experience. Either way, good job Grubby, a brilliant first showing for one of the most mechanically and mentally taxing heroes in DotA! Loving watching you learn everything in your intelligent and methodical manner :)
Watching Grubby playing invoker in the tutorial was an absolute delight! ❤ It took me back to 2014 when i first started trying invoker, (in which there was no training demo screen) and we had to figure out everything manually. 😂 Excellent reply man, its such a treat to watch you play this game. PS cold snap should be your go-to spell in the beginning, its a constant damage/stun. Hard to top that. Also tornado is a great initiator, must use more often. 👍
I think the best way to learn this hero is select 3 spells and learn to rotate them. Once perfected select another 3 or maybe add 1 additional spell in the rotation.
Yeah my friend who taught me dota said the same thing You want to play quas wex or quas exort? Learn how to play one style and their combo and after you master it then you go to another style until you can master all spells depend on the situation. First I learn Quas wex because its easier and less punishing. Tornado emp cold snap was easier to set up and you stand from afar
Noob tip: Don't forget to do right-click attacks. I remember lots of enemies escaped while I was thinking about what to cast next? :) Sometimes you just right-click.
I wished at the start of the game that I could tell him to meteor waves off cooldown. And then he actually figured that out by himself later in the same game. Impressed as hell, he played as well as I probably did on my 40th game on invoker.
One of the standard ways to set up deafening blast is to have meteor on d and tornado on f, cast tornado, invoke deafening blast, cast meteor when the enemy is coming down from tornado, then cast deafening blast to push the enemies along the meteor's path as it comes down.
Tip: For faster orb summoning, you can press 2 or 3 orbs at the same time. Let's say you want Chaos Meteor, then you press E+W at the same time and another E. Instead of pressing E, then E again, then W. You basically save 33% time required to set up your orbs for a new spell by doing 2 button presses instead of 3. For deafening blast you can press all 3 of them at the same time and save 66%. Sure, the time saves are tiny, but they add up and Dota is a game of small advantages adding up over time. You also wanna invoke that Ghost Walk as soon as possible a lot of the time to get away.
Hi Grubby, Almost-exclusive-Invoker-player here, you played astonishingly well for 1st time! Don't listen to griefers like that Skywrath, u did very good this game! A couple of tips: 1) If you anticipate a fight coming, pre-invoke the spells you want to use (so that you need no memorizing during fight). Also, you can additionally prepare the orbs for your third spell in advance - e.g. you pre-invoke Tornado and Meteor, and then press Q-W-E , which are needed for the following Deafening Blast ->> now all you need to do is press D and F for Tornado and Meteor, then press R to invoke the Deaf. Blast, then one more D for the blast - voila, you just fired one of the best combo spells in the game easily :-) 2) Don't throw sunstrike on creeps, its rarely worth the mana and you need to hit exactly ONE (otherwise the damage is distributed and kills nothing). Better keep an eye out on other lanes, and if you see a low HP hero or one of your teammates stuns - then throw in the sunstrike :) 3) To maximize the XP you get from Midas - whenever the cooldown is ready summon forge spirits and leave them in the lane to make last hits. You yourself go quickly to one of the large creep camps and use the Midas on the BIGGEST creep, then kill the rest and go back to laning. This requires some multitasking but I am 100% sure with your WC3 skills it will be easy for you to pull off. GL and HF! I really hope you will become a fellow Invoker fan soon!! :)
I never thought I could be only left saying "Just save your sunstrike for teamfights or escaping heroes" to a person who has just played Invoker for the first time. Also I enjoyed how Invoker challenged you as seeing you highly concentrated like some tough w3 games did was delightful. If you wish to study Invoker more I recommend watching Grimorum he is a dedicated Invoker player and a good watch if you wish to see full capacity of Invoker.
One fun thing about invoker in warcraft3 was that whenever someone picked him, the game would go "loading invoker resources. This may take a while..." and freeze for a brief moment.
just imagine the first invoker game of the guy who called grubby autistic 🤣 Grubby I can't wait to see your invoker a few months in. You are a fucking beast dude.
Actually a good "demo" for invoker, there is also a custom game you can find in dota 2 arcade tab called "Invokation" which teaches you different spell combos and the levels they can be used etc. Really good for practice there are basic 2 spell combos all the way up to all 10 spells + refresher orb so the combos can get really crazy😄
Bro, first time invoker. This was insane gameplay. I dont pick the hero after so many years, because i never can remember or even do it in high stress situations.
The combo I normally go is for EMP tornado having it ready and have meatball ready with the orbs but don't press invoke until you found you target. So it goes likes this EMP>TORNADO>MEATBALL>DEF BLAST>SUNSTRIKE>COLDSNAP>ALACRITY. But the first 4 are the important ones. Since 1 your remove the enemies mana which mean they can't really fight you if they have a low mana pull. Tornadon to make them stay in the EMP area before it detornates, meatball directly after with DEF blast. making them hit the meatball and stay longer in it thanks to DEF BLAST. Otherwise you can go with tornado, sunstrike. icewall, coldsnap, alacratiy and meatball.
I'm only 12 minutes into the game, but man, this guy is good. Great instincts about the hero in your literary 1st game, Grubster. Mb you could main this hero after AtoZ
Old salt here, for your first game of Invoker this was great. You're still working on figuring out how/when to start a fight and when to stay with your team vs farming.
"First thing I'm gonna do when I respawn is throw a Cataclysm to see where they are." Me, having map awareness: They are in their triangle. ...obviously xD
Advice for a beginner Invoker player, you can just memorize a few spells to do a combo in fights (example: tornaldo + EMP / meteor + deafening blast) and use cold snap + forge spirit in laning phase. Then when you are comfortable enough with these, only you start to add other skills into the gameplay
Tornado ( or euls) + sun strike + Meteor + D. Blast. When you get the timing down this is a great combo, you can follow it up with Ice Wall or Cold Snap + Forge Spirit ( or open with these and then combo the slow guy)
Grubby the invoker build is usually a combination of two elements whether its QW (cold snap + emp), WE (tornado + meteor), or QE (ice wall + spirit) in the early game before picking the last element and combine every spells in midgame. Pick your talent according to your early combination. Item wise, the must have imo is midas to blink dagger (for positioning ur spell), aghs, and whatever follows depending on the game (aether lens to octarine, refresher, aeon disk, linken, bkb, hex schyte are common late game item for invoker). This hero is very versatile in mid while also useful as pos 4 roaming despite the lack of aoe stun. Cheers for the content xD
For the first game, you were phenomenal! I common theme in your fights here: you have so many options of what to cast, that's just overwhelming. So you stand next to the fight and do nothing. Focus on on some key teamfight spells (tornado, meatball, deafening blast) and just spam those 3 into the fight. At least you deal damage and practice those 3 at the same time. Your remaining stuff is awesome, you use coldsnap very well. Avoid using the meatball for farming since the CD is so long and a fight might be just around the corner. Keep it up, you rock, awesome content!
You can see Grubby repeating and laughing at invokers quotes, and I got so many flashbacks from playing WC3 and it had such a good hero quotes so u just had to repeat them. Anyway seeing Grubby play dota is just so cool, I used to play WC3 as well and seeing some else do the WC3 -> Dota 2 transfer brings me memories
Idk if a new meta on invoker has come but. Quas invoker is the most practical, put all points in quas first while keeping exort and wex lvl1. When you can’t put points on quas anymore then dump it on wex and last priority is exort. Disable>Map Roam>Damage(item and mana timing perfect to end game). Your role here is to help your team and enable them to kill enemy team, next is establish fear on the map with speed from wex, last is with sufficient mana and points for cast speed you can now unleash your full damage and power with exort to close the game. Also maxing quas early on will give you lane sustain stuns and slows to defend yourself for survivability.
I am by no means a good player, but here's some tips. First you gotta memorize the spells, make it into muscle memory. Then you gotta keep playing him to know what spells to use against what hero, in what game stage. For example, TA is weak against ice wall during laning stage. After knowing which spell to use first, you need to know what spell to use next as a combo. After stucking TA in icewall, you wanna toss a meatball on her path. Also, Sumiya, a chinese player who plays really good invoker, says that Scyte of Vyse is the core item of invoker, only if you are fluent with the combo though.
Pretty good for first time Invoker, but holy crap those midlane sunstrikes were triggering lmao. Wanted somehow to go back in time and be able to tell him not to
I spit my drink out, when Grubby looked at the top lane saw clockwork low, placed his mouse on the SS and i was thinking "Here it goes, the first awesome SS", and he immediately SSed the creep wave in mid..... i had no words.... hes a master of never let your oponents know whats going on xD I am shockingly impressed how well he played.... that was outstanding.
You sir, earned my sub. I wanted to show a friend of mine a very difficult part of Dota, so i threw him your video. I have 2k+ games with Carl and i watched part of this myself and you are absolutely doing great. Remember this is only day 1 of piano lessons, you have just learned what pentagram is, haha. Cheers.
You know it's going to be a good video when the first reaction to seeing the skills is 'what the f is going on here'. One of if not The hardest heroes to play, lets see how it goes.
If players like Grubby can remember all of the Warcraft 3 hotkeys for all buildings and units, he can remember a few combinations for Invoker. Doesn't mean it isn't hard but it's more than doable for Grubby, it makes me wonder if we'll see a return to Invoker once A-Z is over.
Having the presence of mind to remember ghostwalk while ganked is very impressive this early. Very good job so far, this is certainly going the correct way
I only play Invoker as support because: 1) my hands are slow; 2) my brain can't handle the pressure of trying to last hit and remembering all his spells if I play mid
That Sun strike on all other heroes is just like in the game Smite with Nu Wa she has an ult that does a meteor on all heroes and is always abused as a way to kill off all heroes that are on low hp.
Looking forward to you playing your favorites after your A-Z route. I hope Invoker makes the list of favorites though! Somehow you shine when you have more to do as evidenced by the minion, illusion based heroes so far.
Invoker is fun concept and could be game in itself. Reminds me of this one old RPG where you had to actually draw a sign using mouse to cast a spell. It was cringe at start, but once you get to really high speeds it's both very satisfying and fun to watch.
It's looking at him that I understood that even by being just Guardian (and losing mmr every week), I already learned a Fucking bunch about this game! Some this are no brainer now for me. I was smiling all during the laning phase
Grubby, you are a monster!! From the first games I have seen you tried picking up dota, which seemed like a potato playing, to this gameplay is mind blowing. And this gameplay is supposed to be your first invoker? I cant believe it. Invoker is difficult hero indeed and i myself wouldnt try to pick it up. I know when you get to the hero Visage, you will be in your best shape. The hero is quite simple and super strong if the spawns are managed well, which you proved is peace of cake.
Also, if you try to improve at invoker, there are some set combos, that invoker can utilize. Some are solo kill combo pieces(tornado, sunstrike, meatball, deafening blast), some are just team fight prep(emp tornado). There is a lot of videos on yt of course.
Legacy hotkeys in Invoker is actually better. Cause you have to remember which spell you invoked is D or F. But if you have legacy keys, you don't have to remember and look at your spells, it every spell has its own key
Big fan from WCIII days! I know it was the first game and all, so props for trying out such a hard hero. Just a reminder though, invoker has a lot of CC so its really helpful in team fights to use cold snap, tornado and deafening strike. Which can also lead into a nice meatball finisher.
just a friendly reminder he just played against a smurf willow mid as first time invoker, destroyed him in lane but lost late game because he couldn't even remember the spells which is 100% normal for first time. i can see him becoming a monster invoker with that micro skills.
Thankfully with the versatility you can play him many different ways Q E build allows you to stun, slow, and rclick everything down with forge spirits W E build is more combo focused, landing force blast into EMP or Meteor. Alternatively you can buff allies with alacrity and let them carry the game for you. Q W is a mix of the two, trading forge spirits for tornado EMP while still having cold snap, plus the ghost walk escape is a lot more usable early game. Personally I like QE best, having good summons early allows you to farm multiple places at once while still being able to rotate for your team. Others like the combo game but they have to be really good at remembering the WEEQQWEWQQQWEQWEEWEWEEWE combo to pull it off perfectly and not everyone has time for that.
Damn Grubby! Im extremely impressed! I have a feeling that you hire someone to make these videos and like our comments but I hope it reaches you how impressive that first game of invoker was. I know you dont get discouraged easily and I hope you keep that same mentality. Nice one!
you know the hero difficulty is very high when grubby's demo is 30++ minutes
I love how Grubby makes sure he understands everything about the hero first before diving in, unlike most gamers.
I should play Dota 2 as well.. Warcraft 3 isnt so active :D
it's edited, it was much more than this. he also spent an hour in bots game to get used to it.
@@lyonvensa i think it's personal approach for different players, i usually played a new hero against bots (unfair, with only me on the team) to get used to the hero, i don't like spending much time in demo cuz it doesn't give you the understanding of movement and spell cooldowns really
You know the hero difficulty is very high when it's called Invoker.
40 minute demo, exactly what I expected for the Invoker video 😂
Hey Grubby, I have literally played only Invoker throughout my Dota journey and I have to say - for a first timer you did super super well. There are just too many nuances with this hero, but once you get a hang of it, which will come probably after 100 of games, you will realize the potential of this hero is insane. You can play it anyway you like.
You have all my praise for this game. 🎉🎉
What do you do when Invoker gets banned? :)
@@akrit1990 draft dodger pepela
I agree, the level hes playing considering its his first time. I imagine, as a first time invoker and also new in Dota2 there is so much going on that you have to absorb at once during all this and he is doing well honestly
Mind sharing your dotabuff, i wanna see how much invoker you've played if its your only hero, just curious you don't have to :)
That's so crazy how you're absolutely right on the 100 game mark. My win rate went from like 43 percent before 100 games to 53 after 100.
"You're slowed by 160% why are you not moving backwards" has the same energy as
"Healing the enemy when dealing negative damage"
The curious part of it is that negative damage healing is actually how it works on Tabletop RPGs, though, so it does make sense if it were a lot of other games
Funny enough, if you drop someone's into the negatives and hit Abaddon during his ult, it damages him.
At least this used to be the case.
@@purplefanta7142 i was about to point it out too! i see you're a man of culture as well
@@marcoballan4067 Average mechanic enjoyer GIGACHAD
Negative damage is actually how most triggered healing spells worked in dota1 since you couldn't make one unit heal another unit, so if you wanted to easily track the source of the healing you just make a unit deal negative damage instead. You could generically add HP but then you have to do a bunch of extra work to track the source of the healing. It's the same reason HP removal damage did not credit kills for a long time, like if someone died to Necro's aura it would just count as a suicide.
This could seriously be the most impressive first game invoker of all time -- certainly the best first invoker game Ive ever seen -- particularly given Grubby has been playing DOTA for all of a couple weeks period. Honestly its a bit mind blowing considering. I mean, he was literally getting better by the minute as the game went on. Crazy stuff. If Grubby got serious about getting better and got someone to actually coach him full time, he legit could be a top tier player in just a couple months, I have no doubt. Edit: the funniest part is the skywrath flaming him doesnt even believe its his first ever game of invoker.
> he legit could be a top tier player in just a couple months
I love Grubby as much as the next guy but let's be real, lmao.
@Ultormento it's almost like he's a pretty smart pro gamer who already understands the base mechanics and applications of dota hero fighting from playing fuggin wc3 for a career.
@Ultormento Grubby was playing RTS before you were born
ikr, i am no pro esp in invo but we know how it was played watching pros, and Grubby really went from i wish he use this/that spell to POG in first game, esp mid game he was really good.
My Boii Grubby Reached Divine in 1 yr.. Sick Player 🔥🔥
Invoker is definitely one of the hardest heroes in Dota 2. At least characters like Meepo you just need good micro with multiple units, something that a pro RTS player will find easy.
The memorizing part is really the only thing that makes it considered the hardest hero. It takes time but you get the muscle memory for his skills after a while. Being good at meepo imo takes a bit more effort and not everyone goes into dota a micro legend
@@tofuteh2348 when to utilize those skills in game/ game scenarios is what it makes more difficult than memorizing it
@@bomberguy1921 to a new player? Sure, but for most of us who've played knowing when to use your skills is something that applies to every hero and is a skill you should already have developed after a while. Again, your answer on who's harder just depends on how comfortable you are with micro.
@@tofuteh2348 I would like to add that what makes invoker the hardest hero to play is the versatility of the hero in both early and mid game and players ability to play all those styles of invoker. Two days ago, in a single day I had to play full exort early snowball invoker with bkb aghs refresher, after that I had to go full wex invoker with vessel, veil of discord, utility cc invoker. And later that day I had to play full right click invoker with maelstorm, eye of skadi. Thats what makes the hero hard. Knowing how to play the simplest exort invoker and being able to get early kills means nothing on this hero. Its the fact that your orbs and your abilities give you posibilty to adapt to the game a lot. So once learning to play all those different styles and actually performing on them makes it hard. In lower brackets people just plaz full blown exort invoker always with the same build midas, aghs hex bkb. And if you know your combos, that is actually the simplest style of playing.
Or just be good at both so you can say you’ve mastered the hardest there is on dota so everything else is easy is what I told myself. And to this day I’ve never mastered tinker, techies, and arc warden. Chen and Pandaren was easy because of WC3.
One of the coolest designed heroes in a MOBA. The only other that I can think of that compares is Cho'Gall from HOTS which require 2 players to pilot IIRC. But dear Lord you could not pay me to win with this hero
That hero was fun on HOTS. Loved playing him with a friend lol.
@@sosemiteyam562 HOTS have a lot of great ideas, its a shame blizz dont fully support the game
@@waztec3508 so sadly true
you know it's a good Grubby vid if the video last more than hour.
Dota is the true moba of warcraft. I played Data as a WC3 mod map and it always felt like and still feels like I'm playing with the warcraft 3 feeling of the heroes.
Also well done on first game of invoker he's very hard to use.
"DoTA is the true MOBA of warcraft?" ... but DoTA really comes from W3 anyway... At least DoTA1 when it came out.
Very disappointed in the chat but I assume a lot of them are new viewers. Fantastic job Grubby.
Remembering every invoker spell in your first game is already a challenge, doing so in the middle of an A-Z challenge is even harder. People also forget the spell rotation/conveyor belt/cooldown juggling.
Yeah, the mindflood Grubby plays through is amazing.
The chat gives me an aneurysm every time I'm watching. Props to Grubby, I'm sure it gives him some cathartic nostalgia of how he used to be back in the day, though. Said he used to be a hotshot
It's been 35 mins, it's still demo, and I've loved every second of it. This is so fun to watch (and funny)
I have a thousand games on Invoker (which isn't a lot), and I think its a highly impressive game for a first time. Its easy to get pressured using a hero that has so many buttons to push, and with teammates wanting you to use them like all at the same time, in an instant. There is no easy way to learn this hero. You just play, and play, and play it, till things just starts to feel natural.
I stopped playing Dota around 3 years ago. Watching your videos made me want to play again. Love the videos. Hope you have a long and fun time with Dota!
Grubby is the best thing thhat happened to dota communitty in a long time. I always aprecciated the WC3 videos; and his content made me come back to dotta withh a fresh mind. Ty, friend.
Lmao, just noticed that Invoker actually calls Chaos Meteor carnosphere (meatball)
Amogosphere
Sometimes he just goes 'Behold, meatball!!'
Hello! Your occasional Chatter! Hope Grubby reads this if he ever plans to spend a day learning invoker. Invoker has 4 levels of learning. Basic Invoker involves memorizing spells (and their orbs) and the spell combos. Thats were Grubby at this game. Still havent memorized other combos like tornado>meteor>deafening>sunstrike/snap, etc. Intermediary Invoker involves mastering these combos and positioning well in teamfights. Alot of his skills are not spammable and requires abit of skillshot/positioning. Advanced Invoker involves cooldown awareness and item choices. Invoker is one of the most flexible heroes, especially in late game. His weakness ofc is getting to late game. He can go right click build with alacrity/snap/forged build. CC aoe monster w/ octarine refresher. Gank build. Split push. Etc. And then there is the ultimate invoker. I havent seen these types of invoker in a long time but some people attempt it. These players min max everything on its skills. Choosing the right order of orb (orb awareness) so that only one press of orb then invoke is the norm rotation. All of its items and on the backpack are items that have actives. Most of these players do the split push type build since doing these things in teamfights is incredibly taxing.
"Energy. Power. My people are addicted to it!"
38 minutes of demo mode, nice!
Honestly I think anyone who isn't confident on invo is better off going to offlane as pos 4 and going for a quas wex build as a situational pick against mana reliant heroes like bristle or dusa. It's a great way to learn without the high pressure of being in middle.
Trial by Fire though =3
i agree
Invoker NEEDS experience.
Sure, the pos 4 invoker has been done here and there, but most of the time any other pos 4 will be better.
Midas actually is not about farming gold faster, but farming experience faster, for heroes like invoker level is the most important thing.
Read descriptions of items to refresh your memories and getting new ideas.
Good luck with your journey!
It's funny that they're mad because looking at how he plays it looks good. They didn't know it's his first time. I can see the panic he's in during the clash.
Yo I hope you didn't take all of Skywrath's flaming in this game to heart; sure early on you missed a couple of spots for good spell use as you were getting used to the hero, but for the majority of the fights (and especially later on) you were really pumping out spells and using them pretty dang well. Skywrath was tilted as hell and was just vomitting words in to the chat which were totally wrong, and then straight up said you were lying when you told him it was your first game because his ego couldn't take the idea that you might actually be doing pretty fucking well given your experience.
Either way, good job Grubby, a brilliant first showing for one of the most mechanically and mentally taxing heroes in DotA! Loving watching you learn everything in your intelligent and methodical manner :)
Watching Grubby playing invoker in the tutorial was an absolute delight! ❤
It took me back to 2014 when i first started trying invoker, (in which there was no training demo screen) and we had to figure out everything manually. 😂
Excellent reply man, its such a treat to watch you play this game. PS cold snap should be your go-to spell in the beginning, its a constant damage/stun. Hard to top that. Also tornado is a great initiator, must use more often. 👍
I think the best way to learn this hero is select 3 spells and learn to rotate them. Once perfected select another 3 or maybe add 1 additional spell in the rotation.
Yeah my friend who taught me dota said the same thing
You want to play quas wex or quas exort?
Learn how to play one style and their combo and after you master it then you go to another style until you can master all spells depend on the situation. First I learn Quas wex because its easier and less punishing. Tornado emp cold snap was easier to set up and you stand from afar
@@cal8338 The easiest one is Quas Wex
Tornado,EMP,Cold snap and ghost walk
No need complicated combo lol
Noob tip: Don't forget to do right-click attacks. I remember lots of enemies escaped while I was thinking about what to cast next? :) Sometimes you just right-click.
Best Invoker in the world here. You rocked! I hope this hero becomes your favourite.
I wished at the start of the game that I could tell him to meteor waves off cooldown. And then he actually figured that out by himself later in the same game. Impressed as hell, he played as well as I probably did on my 40th game on invoker.
and then chat tells him not to meteor creeps or he'll get reported lol
One of the standard ways to set up deafening blast is to have meteor on d and tornado on f, cast tornado, invoke deafening blast, cast meteor when the enemy is coming down from tornado, then cast deafening blast to push the enemies along the meteor's path as it comes down.
I am very satisfied with the thumbnail. Thank you! xD
Tip:
For faster orb summoning, you can press 2 or 3 orbs at the same time.
Let's say you want Chaos Meteor, then you press E+W at the same time and another E.
Instead of pressing E, then E again, then W.
You basically save 33% time required to set up your orbs for a new spell by doing 2 button presses instead of 3.
For deafening blast you can press all 3 of them at the same time and save 66%.
Sure, the time saves are tiny, but they add up and Dota is a game of small advantages adding up over time.
You also wanna invoke that Ghost Walk as soon as possible a lot of the time to get away.
Hi Grubby,
Almost-exclusive-Invoker-player here, you played astonishingly well for 1st time! Don't listen to griefers like that Skywrath, u did very good this game!
A couple of tips:
1) If you anticipate a fight coming, pre-invoke the spells you want to use (so that you need no memorizing during fight). Also, you can additionally prepare the orbs for your third spell in advance - e.g. you pre-invoke Tornado and Meteor, and then press Q-W-E , which are needed for the following Deafening Blast ->> now all you need to do is press D and F for Tornado and Meteor, then press R to invoke the Deaf. Blast, then one more D for the blast - voila, you just fired one of the best combo spells in the game easily :-)
2) Don't throw sunstrike on creeps, its rarely worth the mana and you need to hit exactly ONE (otherwise the damage is distributed and kills nothing). Better keep an eye out on other lanes, and if you see a low HP hero or one of your teammates stuns - then throw in the sunstrike :)
3) To maximize the XP you get from Midas - whenever the cooldown is ready summon forge spirits and leave them in the lane to make last hits. You yourself go quickly to one of the large creep camps and use the Midas on the BIGGEST creep, then kill the rest and go back to laning. This requires some multitasking but I am 100% sure with your WC3 skills it will be easy for you to pull off.
GL and HF! I really hope you will become a fellow Invoker fan soon!! :)
"Enemies cant predict my next move if i cant either" I died here xDDDDDDDDDDDD
I'm a simple man I see invoker I auto click .
"Simple man" and "Invoker" .... You get it, right?
Pretty much how i play invoker 😂
It's so good to see how fast you progress ! Keep the good work !
I never thought I could be only left saying "Just save your sunstrike for teamfights or escaping heroes" to a person who has just played Invoker for the first time. Also I enjoyed how Invoker challenged you as seeing you highly concentrated like some tough w3 games did was delightful. If you wish to study Invoker more I recommend watching Grimorum he is a dedicated Invoker player and a good watch if you wish to see full capacity of Invoker.
I hope for more Invoker streams Grubby. This hero seems nice. ^^
Skywrath players malding is ALWAYS a pleasure to watch. Imo you played decent for first invo game. I went 2 8 3 my first invo
The fact that you read the spells and understand what they do makes you better than 50% of the dota players already.
I love that his viewers trick Grubby into thinking Bristleback is the third hardest hero
One fun thing about invoker in warcraft3 was that whenever someone picked him, the game would go "loading invoker resources. This may take a while..." and freeze for a brief moment.
just imagine the first invoker game of the guy who called grubby autistic 🤣
Grubby I can't wait to see your invoker a few months in. You are a fucking beast dude.
Actually a good "demo" for invoker, there is also a custom game you can find in dota 2 arcade tab called "Invokation" which teaches you different spell combos and the levels they can be used etc. Really good for practice there are basic 2 spell combos all the way up to all 10 spells + refresher orb so the combos can get really crazy😄
the amount of backseat from chat in this game lol
Bro, first time invoker. This was insane gameplay. I dont pick the hero after so many years, because i never can remember or even do it in high stress situations.
The combo I normally go is for EMP tornado having it ready and have meatball ready with the orbs but don't press invoke until you found you target.
So it goes likes this EMP>TORNADO>MEATBALL>DEF BLAST>SUNSTRIKE>COLDSNAP>ALACRITY.
But the first 4 are the important ones. Since 1 your remove the enemies mana which mean they can't really fight you if they have a low mana pull. Tornadon to make them stay in the EMP area before it detornates, meatball directly after with DEF blast. making them hit the meatball and stay longer in it thanks to DEF BLAST.
Otherwise you can go with tornado, sunstrike. icewall, coldsnap, alacratiy and meatball.
Thats really good, was screaming at him to deny his forge spirits though
Tornado and deafening blast would own Willow every time she fades away, but you do you xD
"Get ready your toothbrush"😂
I'm only 12 minutes into the game, but man, this guy is good. Great instincts about the hero in your literary 1st game, Grubster. Mb you could main this hero after AtoZ
10:58 i spit out my drink lol thanks for the giggle
This is perhaps the best first-time beginner Invoker gameplay I've seen. Good job!
This hero is like studying for school
Old salt here, for your first game of Invoker this was great.
You're still working on figuring out how/when to start a fight and when to stay with your team vs farming.
is it just me or Grubby does fit into invoker drip ?
"First thing I'm gonna do when I respawn is throw a Cataclysm to see where they are."
Me, having map awareness:
They are in their triangle.
...obviously xD
man those sunstrike reactions ahahahaa im dead
man your last hitting is so freaking good haha
Advice for a beginner Invoker player, you can just memorize a few spells to do a combo in fights (example: tornaldo + EMP / meteor + deafening blast) and use cold snap + forge spirit in laning phase. Then when you are comfortable enough with these, only you start to add other skills into the gameplay
The clip where Miracle beats that invi jugger at TI7 is simply a must watch. Chat is right about that
this was the best first invoker play dude, my first invoker was terrible
Tornado ( or euls) + sun strike + Meteor + D. Blast. When you get the timing down this is a great combo, you can follow it up with Ice Wall or Cold Snap + Forge Spirit ( or open with these and then combo the slow guy)
Amazing performance for a first timer Invoker. Keep doing well buddy!
Grubby the invoker build is usually a combination of two elements whether its QW (cold snap + emp), WE (tornado + meteor), or QE (ice wall + spirit) in the early game before picking the last element and combine every spells in midgame. Pick your talent according to your early combination. Item wise, the must have imo is midas to blink dagger (for positioning ur spell), aghs, and whatever follows depending on the game (aether lens to octarine, refresher, aeon disk, linken, bkb, hex schyte are common late game item for invoker). This hero is very versatile in mid while also useful as pos 4 roaming despite the lack of aoe stun. Cheers for the content xD
For the first game, you were phenomenal!
I common theme in your fights here: you have so many options of what to cast, that's just overwhelming. So you stand next to the fight and do nothing. Focus on on some key teamfight spells (tornado, meatball, deafening blast) and just spam those 3 into the fight. At least you deal damage and practice those 3 at the same time.
Your remaining stuff is awesome, you use coldsnap very well. Avoid using the meatball for farming since the CD is so long and a fight might be just around the corner. Keep it up, you rock, awesome content!
You can see Grubby repeating and laughing at invokers quotes, and I got so many flashbacks from playing WC3 and it had such a good hero quotes so u just had to repeat them. Anyway seeing Grubby play dota is just so cool, I used to play WC3 as well and seeing some else do the WC3 -> Dota 2 transfer brings me memories
Sanest and happiest Invoker player right here
29:15 Your body when burning diarrhea bout to hit you.
You got so good already its insane. Keep it up ^^
Idk if a new meta on invoker has come but. Quas invoker is the most practical, put all points in quas first while keeping exort and wex lvl1. When you can’t put points on quas anymore then dump it on wex and last priority is exort. Disable>Map Roam>Damage(item and mana timing perfect to end game). Your role here is to help your team and enable them to kill enemy team, next is establish fear on the map with speed from wex, last is with sufficient mana and points for cast speed you can now unleash your full damage and power with exort to close the game. Also maxing quas early on will give you lane sustain stuns and slows to defend yourself for survivability.
Ah yes, the one hero I noped out of and knew would never play the moment he was put in the game.
I am by no means a good player, but here's some tips.
First you gotta memorize the spells, make it into muscle memory.
Then you gotta keep playing him to know what spells to use against what hero, in what game stage.
For example, TA is weak against ice wall during laning stage.
After knowing which spell to use first, you need to know what spell to use next as a combo.
After stucking TA in icewall, you wanna toss a meatball on her path.
Also, Sumiya, a chinese player who plays really good invoker, says that Scyte of Vyse is the core item of invoker, only if you are fluent with the combo though.
4:07 "The order doesn't matter, it couldn't possibly..." Original DotA 1 invoker had 27 spells because the order mattered.
Lesson learnt: never go after an invoker with unlimited meatball and deafening blast.
Pretty good for first time Invoker, but holy crap those midlane sunstrikes were triggering lmao. Wanted somehow to go back in time and be able to tell him not to
I spit my drink out, when Grubby looked at the top lane saw clockwork low, placed his mouse on the SS and i was thinking "Here it goes, the first awesome SS", and he immediately SSed the creep wave in mid..... i had no words.... hes a master of never let your oponents know whats going on xD
I am shockingly impressed how well he played.... that was outstanding.
You sir, earned my sub. I wanted to show a friend of mine a very difficult part of Dota, so i threw him your video. I have 2k+ games with Carl and i watched part of this myself and you are absolutely doing great. Remember this is only day 1 of piano lessons, you have just learned what pentagram is, haha. Cheers.
What an unlucky game to have these as team mates on ur first INVOKER GAME
You did well
Keep on fighting bro'
You know it's going to be a good video when the first reaction to seeing the skills is 'what the f is going on here'. One of if not The hardest heroes to play, lets see how it goes.
For a 1st time using invoker. You we’re better 90% of the people who tried it 1st, keep up the good content grubby!
If players like Grubby can remember all of the Warcraft 3 hotkeys for all buildings and units, he can remember a few combinations for Invoker. Doesn't mean it isn't hard but it's more than doable for Grubby, it makes me wonder if we'll see a return to Invoker once A-Z is over.
What does Invoker do?.......Yes!
Having the presence of mind to remember ghostwalk while ganked is very impressive this early. Very good job so far, this is certainly going the correct way
He just needs to stop spamming ghostwalk randomly for no reason.
I only play Invoker as support because: 1) my hands are slow; 2) my brain can't handle the pressure of trying to last hit and remembering all his spells if I play mid
They don't know what ethereal blade is and they're flaming a beginner invo. DotA II players truly living up to the name!
That Sun strike on all other heroes is just like in the game Smite with Nu Wa she has an ult that does a meteor on all heroes and is always abused as a way to kill off all heroes that are on low hp.
Looking forward to you playing your favorites after your A-Z route. I hope Invoker makes the list of favorites though! Somehow you shine when you have more to do as evidenced by the minion, illusion based heroes so far.
Invoker is fun concept and could be game in itself. Reminds me of this one old RPG where you had to actually draw a sign using mouse to cast a spell. It was cringe at start, but once you get to really high speeds it's both very satisfying and fun to watch.
Incredible game play for first try. Couldnt ask for a better warm up game ;)
Best way to learn invoker is to play the invoker casting game online where you can master invoking the skills quickly to be decent enough in a game
It's looking at him that I understood that even by being just Guardian (and losing mmr every week), I already learned a Fucking bunch about this game! Some this are no brainer now for me.
I was smiling all during the laning phase
as someone who was on invoker leaderboards, you did well man :D ignore the haters
I haven't played invoker since 2008, this is giving me PTSD but in a fun way XD
idk why watching Grubby makes me think he's an alternate reality version of Waga ~
Grubby, you are a monster!! From the first games I have seen you tried picking up dota, which seemed like a potato playing, to this gameplay is mind blowing. And this gameplay is supposed to be your first invoker? I cant believe it. Invoker is difficult hero indeed and i myself wouldnt try to pick it up. I know when you get to the hero Visage, you will be in your best shape. The hero is quite simple and super strong if the spawns are managed well, which you proved is peace of cake.
Also, if you try to improve at invoker, there are some set combos, that invoker can utilize. Some are solo kill combo pieces(tornado, sunstrike, meatball, deafening blast), some are just team fight prep(emp tornado). There is a lot of videos on yt of course.
Also what you said in the video, how do you learn how to have fun? :) I am interrested :P
Legacy hotkeys in Invoker is actually better. Cause you have to remember which spell you invoked is D or F. But if you have legacy keys, you don't have to remember and look at your spells, it every spell has its own key
Big fan from WCIII days! I know it was the first game and all, so props for trying out such a hard hero. Just a reminder though, invoker has a lot of CC so its really helpful in team fights to use cold snap, tornado and deafening strike. Which can also lead into a nice meatball finisher.
Grubby, you are truly an amazing player and preparer and e-sportsman. First Invoker game looking like this? Madness!
just a friendly reminder he just played against a smurf willow mid as first time invoker, destroyed him in lane but lost late game because he couldn't even remember the spells which is 100% normal for first time. i can see him becoming a monster invoker with that micro skills.
Thankfully with the versatility you can play him many different ways
Q E build allows you to stun, slow, and rclick everything down with forge spirits
W E build is more combo focused, landing force blast into EMP or Meteor. Alternatively you can buff allies with alacrity and let them carry the game for you.
Q W is a mix of the two, trading forge spirits for tornado EMP while still having cold snap, plus the ghost walk escape is a lot more usable early game.
Personally I like QE best, having good summons early allows you to farm multiple places at once while still being able to rotate for your team.
Others like the combo game but they have to be really good at remembering the WEEQQWEWQQQWEQWEEWEWEEWE combo to pull it off perfectly and not everyone has time for that.
Damn Grubby! Im extremely impressed! I have a feeling that you hire someone to make these videos and like our comments but I hope it reaches you how impressive that first game of invoker was. I know you dont get discouraged easily and I hope you keep that same mentality. Nice one!
This is infinitely better than my first invoker game.