How to make your HB-60 sound more like a Jazzmaster & Is installing a GFS X-trem worth the shipping?
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- čas přidán 26. 10. 2022
- The Guitar: www.thomannmusic.com/harley_b...
The Pots: amzn.to/3gQHhb9
The Trem: www.guitarfetish.com/XTREM-LE...
Hot Holder Pro: www.austinmics.com/hot-holder...
StringJoy Strings: stringjoy.com/partner/60cycle...
In my initial demo I mentioned that the HM-60 sounds a bit darker than a Fender Jazzmaster, and many of you commented that the pots might be the issue. WELL YOU WERE RIGHT! and this video proves it. I also threw a GFX X-trem on there to scratch my wiggle stick itch, is this budget bigsby alternative worth the shipping?
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FYI, changing the pots will have no affect on sound when both are fully turned up. It's physically impossible with the way they are wired. Science. Definitely can affect the sound drastically though once you start turning the pots down! Love your videos either way!
weird how it did change the sound.
I thought you have to use a no load tone pot for it to be completely removed from the circuit when turned fully up.
Hi, trained Electronic Engineer here. It will have no effect once the volume is turned all the way DOWN (and THAT'S science), but all the way up? Massive impedance difference... which everyone heard the result of. Please research fully before commenting (caveat, may take 4 years, apologies inconvenienced caused)
@@60CycleHumcast I agree. It was definitely brighter. We need Myth Busters! BTW, you need a right angle jack for that new trem. LOL
@@-processdrone- .Science.
Here's my rudest and nastiest comment:
Hey ryan, I'm a young person who enjoys playing guitar and has played guitar and bass for several years, and I have enjoyed modding my guitars for almost as long as I've had them, as I feel like a lot of people experience, we like to make them play and sound the way that we relate to the most and the way that we enjoy the most, and I've had a blast doing that, and you inspire me because you're so joyful about the way that you play and modify your guitars and unapologetically are an amateur, which is so rare on youtube, and it makes me feel like there are people out there like me that are not professionals but still enjoy the modding and playing and fun experience of guitar, without being a prodigy or someone who knows every single technical thing there is to know about building guitars and modding them and being a luthier or tech. It's really inspiring how you just kind of have an idea for a video and just essentially mess around with something for a while and then add some crazy drippy Reverb or some hilarious fuzz to it and call it a day, and just enjoy it for what it is rather than overthinking it and making it so formal and scientific like a lot of people do, which is fine, but it sometimes takes away the fun and the passion for me, and I want to thank you for your great videos and I know you probably could get more views by making it more scripted or focused, but it just doesn't have the same vibe as just a dude enjoying his guitar modding in his garage. I hope you never stop making these videos, and the guitar modding videos always make my day when I watch. Was that rude and nasty enough for you? I hope you have a great day and I'm looking forward to the next video!
See this is the way to actually prank me, I expect the rude and nasty comments but I have no idea what to do with compliments. Im blushing over here. thanks man, I glad you like watching the content I like making.
Other thing has tremendous impact on sonics is pickup placement and the HB looks like having pickups in a slightly different position.
I can finally confirm that this guitar has real JM pickups. Moreover those are identical pickups as in Squier Classic Vibe and Squier 40th Anniversary Jazzmaster. Today I have checked P/N of Squier 40th Anniversary pickups and they are made by Roswell JM-B-ADWH and JM-N-ADWH. Thomann (owner of HB) confirmed that exactly same pickups are used in JA-60 model. EDIT: Roswell confirmed that pickups in HB has bobbins from plastic and one in Squier 40th are from fiber flatwork. Other then that: those are exactly same pickups
Thank you for the info !!!
Interesting. I wonder what the sound difference is between the 40th av and classic vibe. With correct pots and a trem and perhaps the jazz switch the HB would blow the others away.
Can't get over how good these Harley Bentons seem to be I've been playing 20+ years and just come across them
I have owned 7. 6 electrics and 1 acoustic. All were such fantastic instruments
Hey, Ryan; I really appreciate that the weird doodads and mods I often think about purchasing, like X-trems and Deusenbergs, are demonstrated on your channel. It helps me decide whether or not they're worth it. More importantly, it makes me feel like less of a dork for considering these parts.
Great Greg. I think I will be swapping the pots on all my HBs now. Thanks for demonstrating this!
I got the Deusenberg...LOVE IT. Tried it on my HB SC w/ P90s. I wanted to try out on HB before I do it to my Eastman T486. Couple of things I did to that HB was replace the nut w/bone nut (highly polished and finished), locking tuners (Kaish off amazon) and roller bridge (inexpensive off amazon as well). Highly recommend all the upgrades...the trem works amazing. After stretching the strings...stays in tune really well.
Enjoyed this a lot. I was hoping you would check the pots,but you made a whole video ,nice !
fantastic video.... i can't believe how you nailed the sound with that change.... they are so close ~!
Love the tremelo - thanks for demoing it Ryan! Just ordered it. $14 shipping.
Iam a total noob but you became quickly my go to for test and reviews! And the second music channel who got my subscription... Thank you for the geat job and infos you deliver with humor!
Sounds and looks fantastic - I love the surf noodling joy. It does the thing - offsets are so much fun.
The bridge needs to be in a spot the will allow intonation at the 12th fret. Basically matching the distance between the nut and the 12 fret and then from the 12th fret to the insert on the bridge. This is where the intonation comes together. That's why we all like tone o matic style bridges. Los Angeles
I was worried you were going to end up with two guitars that sound essentially the same. I liked the original Harley Benton's sound, but with the new Pots and Wiggle Stick, I love the sound/tone now. Much better than the Fender. Good work, and congrats. The guitar sounds like loads of fun to play.
no way they were going to sound the same, the harley benton uses much simpler wiring than the real jazzmaster.
Love your videos, it always brightens my day a bit to see an upload. Rock on! Or surf on?
I’m in Europe (UK) and am awaiting delivery of one of these.
I can’t wait to do some mods on this, first of all the pots.
Thanks for that review
UpdateI( months later)I’ve had the guitar for some time now, and it is nice to play occasionally for a change, but I still haven’t done the mods.
A nice part of a collection.
Two great changes! Hopefully the tuning stabilizes when the strings settle in.
Nice! I want that! Just days ago I got my own Benton JA60 in Sunburst- it feels SO Rock´n´Roll, I love it.
The three-tone sunburst Harley Benton makes is flawless.
And this wiggle stick looks good, works even better it seems. Only problem: I live in Europe- I might rather look here for a bolt-on trem but I really like Your show and sound.
That´s exactly the style I love. I´d use flatwounds but I just love affordable Rock´n´Roll sound- can´t stress that enough.
Thanks for Your effort, Mate!
I totally agree with you on Guitar Fetish shipping's costs. They are the highest around and frankly Thomann in Germany gets me a guitar sooner from Germany for about the same price from Florida. Thanks for the free bag demo! Amazon Prime has free shipping too folks!
Very sweet mod! Well done!
🎸
I just got one of these and replaced the pots and put a lot of copper foil in there and now I think I will get a router and maybe do a kill switch on the horn for something and maybe get a wiggle stick too
I’ve paired both my x trems with roller bridges with great results. As long as your hardware isn’t moving around at all in its post holes and nuts are cut well you should have the same thing 👍
Bought one in Inca silver. The les trem on the thomann website was 79 so i threw that in the box aswell. I can't wait till it comes in. I'm gonna try it with the 250k pots at first and see if I wanna change them. Im so stoked on this guitar.
Hey Ryan, for the spring noise, try and put a cotton ball in the spring, it will really quieten it up, great vid though, I did the same with a Squire Affinity Starcaster, that and put some hand-wound Wide Range humbuckers in, it turned a 335 sounding guitar to what it should have all the time.
Damn that HB sounds nice to my ears. I do like the upgrade makes it look more grown up or something. And wow you just playing make it sound really good too.
Yep I thought about getting some stuff delivered to Australia but the shipping is crazy even compared to other parts dealers in the US to here. It literally wasn't worth buying anything from their store front because of the cost, which is a shame because I really wanted to try their pickups. Oh well. Great video! Excellent background material as I work the night shift as usual :)
Ryan, stop at Harbor Freight and get a $7 multimeter. Get two! I've advocated on forums for years about fix pickup heights/tip/screw poles, then pots and caps swaps, and last pickup swaps and glad to see the same recommendations showing up in youtube comment posts. Thanks for also recognizing the new vs old strings tone shift possibility. The HB sounds and looks great. Thomann used to ship one to three HB guitars for the same flat shipping fee, maybe they still do.
Great mods and pretty easy to do. I'd probably be a bit hesitant to modify an expensive guitar, which makes an HB perfect for novices like me. Thanks.
Perfect timing Ryan! I am about to install an X-Trem myself. If you think $20 shipping is bad, it was $50 to Canada. I hope its worth it!
they only offer "one day" or "overnight" --whatever it is..... that is why it costs so much, but it also protects the guitar from tones of handling and delay and weather changes :)
@@99bigjim LOL! Guitars get shipped in bad weather every hour of every day for reasonable rates and arrive just fine.
GFS are crazy with their shipping rates. I often deleted an order when i saw the shipping fee at the end.
I had a ton of fun watching this video. I think I'm gonna buy this one, thinking about it for days, and I would love it if the U.S. shipping to my country for parts or pedals isn't stupendously expensive. Greetings from Montenegro!
Man, that red Jazzmaster is stunning!
Excellent & informative video. I totally agree about GFS shipping. I wanted a new tele pick guard & was going to order it. I remembered I needed a new switch tip also and added it to my order. That 1 tiny item Doubled my shipping !! So I deleted my order & didn't & won't buy from them. Complete rip off. They sell at low cost then make triple profits in shipping 'cause you know it doesn't cost them that to ship products. Thanks for holding them accountable 👍
Ryan: I have installed roller bridges like that on guitars with the same kind of posts as yours.
the secret is to just drop the new post mounts into the original metal threaded post mounts; they should fit nicely. If the are too loose, wrap a some tape on them. Bonus: swapping the original bridge back is super easy.
I actually preferred the warmer sound of the original HB. But the new sound is def more correct to the traditional JM sound.
I bought an Affinity Jazzmaster a few months ago and yeah baby I’m getting me some 1 meg pots to go with the new pickups I ordered.
Wow that Harley Benton guitar with the new pots sounds great, definitely would go that way.
10 out of 10 could listen to ryan surf noodle jazzmasters over the the usual noodles. Great video especially loved the surf loop you played on the first JA60 video this week.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Man, I’m digging the heck out of this!
You made it sound great Ryan 👍
The Fender still sounds better to me, but man, the HB sounds wayyyy better after that upgrade. That new trem also makes it look better. Good stuff.
Great modification video Ryan. Everything you did made it not only sound better, but it also looks fantastic too. Any chance for the Jazzmaster Spring Kit update/follow up soon. I have my AmPro I Limited Addition if you need something to film it on.
I’m headed that direction
LOL I love that the box fit into that bag. Seriously, you should email their customer support and mention that. They may have a contract with someone for a flat rate or something, so that everything up to a certain weight is $19. I don't know anything about shipping things though, so I'm just guessing. Maybe a respectful suggestion will get them to evaluate what they're using.
I saw a guy on you tube put a les trem II on the harley benton HB-60 hardtail and it worked perfectly. He didn't even use a roller bridge but he should because the bridge was rocking back and forth with the trem a little.
Looking forward to extended thoughts on the Xtrem. I'm mildly curious about adding (reversibly) a trem to my SG and good to hear there's other (and cheaper) options outside the Les Trem. Although neither of them are what I'm looking for visually - the Duesenberg is too "luxurious" for a lack of a better word, while this looks a bit too industrial, but still has a bit of an edge over the competition.
The truth is you can not cheap out on a Trem. The pricey ones are machined parts accurately cut to spec for the moving parts that are good enough for the aircraft industry. The cheap ones are simply cast in a mold which can be different on every single from the same mold. In short you can easily be out of tune the moment you move it once, let alone getting through a whole tune.
I’ve had my sunburst ja60 since the lockdown. It’s great I wish they would make a baritone like this with the same pickups
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that loves the JA pickups.
Great video man! a highpass filter tone knob will close the gap between the 2 guitars forsure. The new pots added the brightness you wanted and a highpass will give you the twangyness youre missing. a highpass fiilter is just a cap in series on a tone pot but I guess youre already aware of that.
But an actual Jazzmaster has more lowmids giving it that spaghetti western sound (opposed to a Jaguar, which has less of the low mids and doesn't have that caracter). So a highpass filter would just get it further away.
5:20 probably the exact reason why the bridge pup on the HB is warmer
Just get a Guyker if you need to save money. Installs easily on the HBs. Looks much nicer than a Bigsby or the GF trem…. I put the original Deusenberg on my Epi Les Paul , then tried the Guyker for my Epi SG, Epi Es 339, and my HB JM…. used roller bridges as well… and they all work GREAT. BTW - I put a Vega trem on my MIM Tele… VERY a stiff and subtle, but rock solid staying in tune.
Weird, I tried the Guyker and the spacing was off.
The GFS X-trem looks really awesome! =)
I'm going to have to buy one of those hot holders for sure. I mean, it's not gonna make my soldering any worse!
It’s pretty handy.
I know people with a commercial shipping account with a major shipper and their discounts aren't as drastic as you'd hope. I think the biggest benefit is they don't have to spend 5 hrs a week standing in their local post office line with all their shipments. They take a truck load of boxes straight to the drop-off location by the airport that has a conveyor belt that goes up to the parking lot.
In this case, the shipping cost should be considered as part of the item's cost. Their products are still a great deal with domestic shipping. I've also started ordering at least 4 pickups at a time to save on shipping.
Brightness/darkenss/warmth is thereabouts cutoff frequency.
The twang is a combination of Q or resonance, more pronounced attack which is partly related to cutoff frequency, and a shift in pitch with the attack.
The philosopher returned briefly......SHIPPPing!
Cool review! I would like to see you do a review of the Tagima TW 61, a budget "jazz master" , it has a different vibe with P90s and a unique 5 position wheel for different tones.
He already dit it czcams.com/video/5vvLu2cquVw/video.html
I own a late HB JA60 . It has Roswells with alnico 5 magnets. As far as I know these later ones look like JM pups but are actually lower impedance P90s in disguise. This would explain the darker sound (which I like). The Fender JMs obviously have individual alnico magnet pole pieces and are built more like a flat wider strat style pup.
Does your pickups not also have individual alnico magnet slugs? Also the darker sound could be primarily because the JA60 uses those 250K pots.
16 KS is 16 Kilosecond. The time it takes for the tonal differences to kick in when you turn the knob.
Love the video and this project. Bought a HB-60 (Pink Coral as I am such a fan of those crazy early 60's colors), the 1M pots, but picked up a Les Trem II (chrome) for that final SURF TOUCH! Thanks for the video which is somewhat of a workshop for me! 🐺
As always, I'm here for the fast forward music. Specifically the breakdown.
I find the tone of my JA-60 OW is really good. It's the right kind of different. Also plays great. I bought it used for $125, sounds good and record very good. Los Angeles
They could have a shipping deal since it seems like they do international sales too. It's way easier to just ship everything through that one service. At that point, the extra cost is going to convenience with the whole task of labeling and shipping. That's possibly another reason they can keep prices on their products down.
Two things, first it'll be interesting to see if guitar fetish will answer you back about the shipping costs, and secondly I'd love to hear you play slide on that HB.
great vid bro!
im looking at that same model myself!
I liked it. I'm a jazzmaster fan and thought your mod sounded best! js
Beginning to really like your channel you have a great laugh very uplifting i think i will try one of these hb guitar's
Tip: I had the same problem with a roller bridge that had small pin holders that were too small for any guitar I own. But then I found out by messing around a little bit that the smaller pin 'holders' of my roller bridge actually fit reasonably well inside the original larger pin holders :). Fairly easy to make the fit tight with a small piece of paper around it. May be not perfect, but I find it to be a great solution if you want to try out a roller bridge on several guitars because it is very easy to reverse and there is no need for any modifications to the body ;)
Hello there! If I'm not mistaken, those are P90 pickups on a JazzMaster PU form factor. At least its what HB have always done on their past offset models. Cheers
These are Roswell JM (Jazzmaster pickups.) However the earlier versions of the JA-60 in suburst and Olympic White did start out with Wilkinson P-90 pickups but Thomann switched manufacturers some time ago to the Roswell. Btw, I just ordered a JA-60CC in the Lake Placid Blue and I should get it Monday. I may try that trem unit but as for the 1M switch I think I prefer the darker sound of the stock 250K pots.
Loved the shipment bit! :D :D :D
Very good video! First impression comparison very dramatic difference. Last comparison after changing pot ALSO dramatic change. 250k cuts frequencies above 7,500HZ, 500K cuts off at 11,000, 1000k goes up to 23,000. Human hearing is about 20HZ to 20,000HZ. I like the 1m (1000k) you installed. Anything LESS than full volume is cutting back frequencies anyway
Great mod! I think the pickups sound pretty close to a Jazzmaster with the 1Meg pots in it. As for your question of twang vs brightness: In my understanding, twang is more about the attack, which mostly comes from a guitar's construction, and bright pickups help to make it audible. I would prefer a Les Trem over the one you installed, but all in all, this absolutely was worth it!
Congrats on making the changes that implemented the desired change. I did not think pots changed the sound that much. Or maybe it's the new strings....
Cool video...And Kudos for being super brave to solder and not cover the body up with something. Home of the Brave!
Well Done as always....
Phil
NYC Area
Hey there are roller tune-o-matic knockoffs all over Amazon and Ebay, I think they're a copy from something Wilkinson did time ago. They're supposed to be direct replacements to original tune-o-matics. Now, I'm pretty sure these copies are metric, which I believe will fit the Harley Benton just fine.
What I like about P90s is that bright, edgey bite. Which got me thinking about my H/B LP junior which has one P90. Gonna have a peek. Thanks!
Sounds great!
Great Video , while getting a new multimeter also maybe a solder sucker too….
Awesome Vid ….
bro... thank you for calling out GFS. What the heck are they doing?! Why is the guitar gear world so against flat rate?!
My theory is that GFS is able to sell things so inexpensively because they are making their money on shipping and handling.
Maybe the dude that puts the thing in the bag gets paid?
I often deleted my order when they show the shipping fee at the end.
For a pair of PUs to Germany they wanted ~80$ and this is not by FedEx over night, next day delivery.
100%
As someone who works in shipping, it’s pretty simple: fast, cheap, reliable-pick two. “Cheap” means less than $15, assuming it’s less than a pound, shipping materials included. “Fast” means less than 7-10 days. And “reliable” means you get your item or you get your money back without too much hassle.
Want fast and cheap? Go flat-rate and expect it to run late.
Want fast and reliable? Go UPS or FedEx 2-day and expect to pay $80 or more.
Cheap and reliable doesn’t really exist, but UPS and FedEx ground are almost cheap, and they’re often faster than flat-rate.
Personally, I wouldn’t trust flat-rate with anything worth more than $15.
Superb upgrade!! :)
Good fun.........and absolutely agree 100% with your comments regarding Guitar Fetish's excessive shipping rates .....
I had bought from them several times but when their shipping rates went thru the roof their otherwise great value
products were no longer such a good deal . I stopped buying from them .
The sound of both guitars sound great but I really love the Harley Benton sound before the mod .
True but I’m sure you could find that sound by rolling off the tone knob.
The pot change was good brightened em up. The Harley Benton pickups though to me sound closer to that voicing of ceramic pickups have. The Fender pups had that true alnico sound overall. Maybe looking at the pickups and swapping magnets to alnico if they're ceramic will change the voicing more on them. Definitely the pot was a big improvement and took it out the dark.
Inspector gadget dude! You nailed that one 🕵
Great Video! Felt some strong Bob Ross Vibes, really nice man
Love the "just try stuff" attitude you have with these videos. Still waiting for you to "mess up" that red Jazz!
the moment the jazzmaster gets a natural ding or scratch its all over. I really want it to have temperature checking.
Looking forward to it!
The stock JA 60 pickups sound more like p90s. They are thick and perfect for my rig, oddly enough.
I think it's interesting you think that the how the pickups may be wound is what may be causing more of a difference. I have a Made In Japan Traditional 60s jazzmaster and as far as I'm aware those pickups are wounds more so like a strat in jazzmaster housings. But to my ears my Japanese jazzmaster still sounds more like the avri II than the Harley Benton. My guess is the difference in bridge and tremelo, and also that bridge pickups placement.
That roller bridge might go great with your LP studio on the wall!
I had the same thing with the Squier J Mascis Jazzmaster, I thought it was weird how it didn't sound anywhere near as bright as my Fender one. Changed the pickups to no effect, then swapped the pots and bam, twangalicious. I didn't see what value the stock ones were, though 🤔
I almost prefer the (to me, slightly warmer? More mid-y?) sound of the Harley Benton here, as much as it really pains me to say it (as a lover of brighter tones and Jazzmasters)!
If you want to find the optimal value for a pot, use a 1 Meg pot and connect both the pickup hot lead and the output hot lead to the center wiper . Dial in the best tone, then disconnect the leads and measure the value to ground. Use that value pot , or add a parallel resistor to the 1 Meg across its outer lugs for the right value. Connect the circuit normally.
geek
Now you got me going! I recently added two humbuckers and new pots to my single humbucker Yamaha RG110, those pots are 500K, I want brighter Tele like sound, so it seems that the way to go is 1meg pots and coil split. No trem, I do not use it. Maybe I should do the same with my Epiphone Les Paul special II.
Although, if you turn your volume all the way up, the resistance should be zero on any pot. Perhaps it would affect the effect on the ·tone capacitor· at the low end where the resistance through the capacitor is then two times higher and it would block its effect better on the high tone end. In other words, when the tone is set on low, the pot resistance is set to zero and the effect of the tone capacitor is at max, when the tone knob is set on high, the resistance on the pot is at max, then, if you add more resistance, the effect of the resistance on the tone capacitor should be higher. What's your take on that?
Hahahaha I love the shipping rants! A true "get off my lawn" moment. And I COMPLETELY agree with you!
Excellent video..... enjoyed it..👍
Dear friend you've to have bridge with rollers to have Trem on any guitar! That's a must. However, I've fun watching your video! Very informative!👍
Awesome vid! Glad to see the Benton sounds jazzmastery after 1meg pots. There is no real reason to buy the classic vibe anymore. even with the trem its cheaper!
well its a totally different feel, and the trems behave very differently. If you want something closer to a true jazzmaster experience classic vibes are a great way to go. but this is a great affordable alternative with its own take on the concept.
Ryan…here’s one for you. How about installing a Varitone switch on that Harley Benton. I bet you’d get even closer to your Fender tone-wise.
I have been waiting for GF to have a wirng harness for a JM with p90s FOREVER! Was contemplating purchaing their pickups, but without the quick connect harness. No way.
the red knobs are killer :D
The increased distance of the bridge pickup from the strings is the biggest difference imo.
I think the GFS trem unit added a bit spank and treble too, to the tone.
I like offset guitars, bloc inlays, but not so much P90 pups. But this one sounds so fine, it tickles my GAS…
In my opinion, the shipping is what’s holding them back. They could increase the price a bit and it would still be a bargain. I like Guitar Fetish guitars and gear. I always wait until they have a sale before I buy anything so at least the shipping is free (or mostly free).
Harley Benton has an official US shop on Reverb now. The guitars are more expensive, about $40 - $50 more expensive, but has free shipping. It ends up being cheaper than buying from the Thomann store and shipping it to the US.
I just bought a JA-60 VW, waiting on it to come in, it was $208. From Thomann and shipping to Oregon, it was going to be $245.
Search for "Harley Benton Official US Shop".
@@FunkyCrime I’m talking about Guitar Fetish, not HB.
Btw, that shipping charge doesn't seem to be a flat charge. I did some "test" purchases. The GFS warehouse is in Sarasota, Fla., I think so I used a Sarasota zip code and got a cost of $10 or so. Then I did a "test" of sending it to me in New York state and it was about $15. So I'm guessing 60 Cycle Hum Land is even farther away. Still you're right; a $20 charge does seem excessive.
the usps bag would instantly save me $9 lol. But yeah, I'm in san diego so further than New York.
I put a Duesenberg Les Trem 2 on my same color HB-60. I think it's the perfect vibrato for this guitar. Looks great and sounds great. Now, all I have to figure out is where I went wrong with the electronics upgrade. :-(