This is a short video with vocal delivery at a measured pace, yet you covered every question I could have had about this product with perfect clarity. You do such a good job with your reviews, Lu!
I got mine this week. Works perfectly, not a single issue so far. For us brazilians this is the best option in bang for the buck. The taki one should be better for americans tough, but for brazil it should be much more expensive because of taxes and shipping costs.
It doesn`t have to be though does it ? Its compatible with the cores and framework that is all that really matters. If you go for the built in SDram version its half the price the DE10 + SDram and this is what the project needs. I have had no issues with my board in testing
@@beefquiche really the layer 2 stuff is to make up for the short comings of using a off the shelf dev board as layer 1. Takis custom designs for the consoles is a better approach
@@Waifu4Life I've got a Mister, so I'm not really in the market. But, even with the Mister, I waited a bit before I bought mine, because it seemed to be too good to be true. I'd be hesitant with this one as well as it's a significant price drop over the Mister.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade I had my MiSTer since early 2019, so I've seen everything evolved since then. I want a 2nd one for my QLED TV since my current MiSTer is on my CRT.
You're doing God's work here Lu! I think Takis board is gonna blow this thing out of the water but this one certainly gives a cheap option for someone who has straightforward needs. Appreciate the safety warnings!
I’m completely new to MiSTer FPGA and was excited when I saw these clone boards available. I bought, received, and returned this QM Tech board once I saw tweets about the accessory compatibility. I’ll wait on Taki’s board. It looks like his will not have compatibility issues with accessories.
The moral of the story is simple... make sure something will satisfy your requirements BEFORE jumping in feet first. You choosing the wrong product for your needs isn't the fault of the manufacturer.
@@another3997 Nope, it's not at all and it was wrong for me to make an assumption that it would be. I made the assumption that it would have been 1:1 compatible; again I'm new to this entire scene. It was impulsive and I did not do my due diligence. Thankfully, Ali let me return it without issues.
I bought that board and I'm using a power supply with 5v 5a from MiSTer Addons. It's seens works very well. The Qmtech sends to me a 3amper power supply. Great video!
Really good overview Lu and great video as always. I’ve got mine powered using a Raspberry Pi USC-C power supply connected via a USB-C Female port wired to the Fan (VIN) header
Thanks for the review Lu. Imho, either preserve compatibility or propose something better, which was not the case. I have one MrFPGA kit (case+DeNano+128GB hub and analog IO) purchased on Aliexpress back in 2021 that works perfectly until today (price with shipping to my country was better than most north american and european sources, plus it was available when most where not). I would like another one with digital io and double ram, I’m lookong forward for the alternatives to land so I can build one hopefully for half the cost. Looking forward to your next review on the clones
Compromises are a fact of life, and as long as any changes are documented, it really doesn't matter how things are laid out. Blindly assuming something is going to be a certain way is asking for trouble. People need to engage their brain cells more often, rather than complaining that something has changed... in the real world, things change all the time.
@@another3997 I don’t disagree, changes are good… but what were the improvements / gains in this case? A drop in replacement has value, as it is a cost effective solution. Would you like PC parts (USB cables, pci-pcie slots , psus etc) to change pinouts, because the OEM can? Standardization is what makes modern life easier, parts are interchangeable and follow a standard. I don’t confuse it with people being dumber and not reading the manual. These are different things
definitely a great video on this kinda thing. Good to know it "works", but I definitely need a good Composite out option if I wanna get one of these so I can hook it up to my CRT. Guess I'll be waiting until the Taki MiSTer consolized versions, or if we get new parts for this one and it ends up being better. My bet's on the former.
Having the port backward to the text on the module is asking for trouble. It probably wouldn't be so bad if the text wasn't there and you have to look for pin 1 instead. Makes me wonder why pretty much all boards of any kind that have GPIO dont have a keyed header
thanks for video. more competition is great for anyone. although power issue is bit disappointing but I hope they can revise this hardware version not to have similar issue. their 'dual ram' version looks interesting.
It seems some people can't wrap their brains around the idea that two separate products are likely to be different in some way. Apparently, checking things out in advance is too complicated for some people, either before purchasing or before they assemble it. 😂
This would be a no brainer for me, if Taki's board didn't exist. I would love a second MiSTer for my desk and not have to move my current one between my game room and my computer desk, but this is just off in it's own island. We'll see if they have cheap io and usb boards like Taki is promising, but it's at least something to keep an eye on. Great write up.
Reading other comments, it sounds like it might depend on worldwide shipping logistics and what county you live in. United States, you're very likely correct
Blanket statements like that show a somewhat limited understanding of the real world situation for many people. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Remember when retrorgb interviewed one of the mister devs a few years ago. Made a complete ass out of himself and showed how little he really knows. He was half snapped asking things of the hardware that no one with a clue would think is remotely realistic. Take up electronics as a hobby and pickup broken consoles. I've yet to find a console that I was unable to fix and I'm a software engineer and not a hardware one. 99 percent of consoles can be diagnosed with a cheap multimeter and esr meter for checking caps. Learn circuit basics first though. Yt is full of people who know nothing about circuits and ape repairs from people equally as inept. It cracks me up. Fixing something without knowing why it was fixed doesn't translate to being able to fix a million edge cases. Also you can fix your own shit and get expensive electronics from friends who can't fix it then flip it. I dont fix stuff for people either as they'll sell it cheaper and save you a headache. Like when I fixed a neogeo aes for a former friend. I told him I was waiting on a tool and wasn't finished and he took it home and complained it wasn't fixed..... he's also been catfished twice hahahaha
Everyone is saying the GPIO_0 for the SDRAM is the wrong way round but if you compare it to a DE10 you will notice it is NOT the wrong way round they have just relocated it to the other side of the board so the label on the SDRAM is not correct because of that, cant believe no one has noticed/mentioned this yet.
The issue is that all RAM chips will tell you to face the chip a certain way so it will and has caused confusion. People have already fried their RAM already because of this.
Very comprehensive review, thanks a lot. Colors between this board and the MIster looked different when you put them side to side. Is it a real life thing? Different settings?
You're not cloning the board. You're basically moving the semantic meta data for how it has the logic blocks set up. It's about time the mister had a new fpga given the number of gates and cache in modern low to mid range fpga boards. The only reason the der10 or whatever costs so much is because people with high disposable income are still buying them so they make just enough at a time to barely meet demand as it's taped out on a legacy node. It's much more fun to learn how to create on an fpga than it is to waste a fortune on one to game. I've been mulling over buying a xilinx board and just recreating retro hardware myself. The nand2tetris course is a great way to see if verilog is something someone would be interested in. Learn logic gates first by buying a few breadboards and transistors to learn all the gates and how they build on each other to create or behave just like hardware. Most cpus and gpus are built on fpga boards when testing new hardware tech.
I use it mainly for testing. It's biggest issue is it's low brightness. But the low brightness helps with recording since I doesn't over expose easily.
I probably won't get this particular board as a 2nd MiSTer, but perhaps the potential lower demand will make it more accessible to those who don't mind the flaws. One thing I was wondering was if the SD card from the DE-10 could just be used in other clones or does the card need to be flashed again
I do see people settling for this board if Taki Udons board sells out. And yes, you can just take your current SD card MiSTer installation from a DE10 Nano and it will work.
@labnine3362 I hope you’re happy, you just convinced me to order my first MiSTer. 😅 I went with the built-in RAM version to put into my cheap bar-top cabinet. One of the AliExpress reviews said they had issues, but Grumpy Old Gamer UK’s tweet made it sound like they got it working no problem. I guess I’ll find out in a couple weeks, worst case I’ll just image the card it comes with as a backup.
appreciate the overview of this clone. no way i could recommend this if it has such a finnicky power port that can shut off with a tap, and no compatibility with the existing IO boards that have been part of the MiSTer project since day 1. some bad design decisions here
If you want an exact clone of a $200 board, you can expect to pay that much for it. Any electronic devices can have a faulty component or a bad solder joint etc, even expensive ones, whether from the factory or in transit. Compromises ALWAYS have to be made, no matter what the product, but sometimes it's better to have a bird in the hand, rather than 2 in the Bush.
@@another3997 never once have i heard of this issue happening with an actual de-10 nano. quality control in manufacturing is a concern, at any price point. shoddy hardware leads to a poor user experience and I can't get behind that.
Do you have a link for the combo unit including the main board and all accessories including the compatible io board? I am just looking for a bundle but can't seem to find it.
Recommendations on where to get a pre-built MiSTer with the above board? Lots of folks happy to pay a small premium to not put it together and have to source all the parts. Thanks!
Honest question, even without the IO board, can it do composite and VGA out natively? Asking since I want to get one for old school computers with a related VGA computer monitor and a second one for a consolized version for a old CRT TV that only has composite.
Just spend the extra $95 for the education discounted one and all the compatibility issues are solved. Not a true clone if I must buy a different I/o board
Very puzzling design. Note that the existing IO boards also take advantage of the Arduino pins on the DE10 nano which are not present on this clone. This is probably not going to be the one I recommend to friends -- looking forward to Taki Udon's versions!
@7:00 But what if your adapter doesn't have a micro USB port for charge? Should we then assume that it doesn't require much current in the first place and should work? My QMTECH is on its way.
I don't have a MiSTerCade, so I can't confirm. Since it wont physically connect to standard IO boards, I assume it wont physically connect to a MiSTercade. Some people have said that you can probably use a ribbon cable to the GPIO pins to use IO boards that work on the real DE10 Nano.
Aliexpress is a great alternative when you don’t have local suppliers, which is my case (or they charge 10x). As with any online shopping, purchasing from reliable vendors (>95% reputation), and filming when opening the package (for precaution) have worked well for me since 2020. I also can find stuff there not available anywhere. Just don’t dismiss it based on bias.
If it feels cheap and says it's 4a it's TRASH. A 4A supply should have some weight to it. A 2A supply should weigh enough to not "feel cheap" -- this is worse than half its rating. Zero trust in their power supply, I actively feel it would be better without it.
This is a short video with vocal delivery at a measured pace, yet you covered every question I could have had about this product with perfect clarity. You do such a good job with your reviews, Lu!
I appreciate the kind words 😊
I got mine this week. Works perfectly, not a single issue so far. For us brazilians this is the best option in bang for the buck. The taki one should be better for americans tough, but for brazil it should be much more expensive because of taxes and shipping costs.
Cool! good to know the global tradeoffs
Better luck next life, hopefully you won't have Blanka as your neighbour but Guile.
@@DrNoBrazil well it is better to have loads of money, then i can live wherever i want.
is it brasil or brazil ????
Hungarian vat 27% not a few
"Not a true drop in replacement" 100% agree with this statement. Thank you for taking the time to verify things and for your thoughts, Lu.
Which is potentially fine, as long as you know that ahead of time. As long as it can run the same cores without any issues, that's the important bit.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade everyone seems to be missing this elephant in the room. Taki just changed MiSTer forever, and for the better.
It doesn`t have to be though does it ? Its compatible with the cores and framework that is all that really matters.
If you go for the built in SDram version its half the price the DE10 + SDram and this is what the project needs. I have had no issues with my board in testing
@@grumpyoldgamerUK true. the add-on boards are a layer 2 issue, it appears taki has handled all the layer 1 stuff perfectly.
@@beefquiche really the layer 2 stuff is to make up for the short comings of using a off the shelf dev board as layer 1.
Takis custom designs for the consoles is a better approach
I'm waiting for Taki's board for my second MiSTer. Really excited for it!
Ditto, I don't trust this one.
Same
@@Waifu4Life I've got a Mister, so I'm not really in the market. But, even with the Mister, I waited a bit before I bought mine, because it seemed to be too good to be true. I'd be hesitant with this one as well as it's a significant price drop over the Mister.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade I had my MiSTer since early 2019, so I've seen everything evolved since then. I want a 2nd one for my QLED TV since my current MiSTer is on my CRT.
@@Waifu4Lifebut you trust Taki’s?
Uh..ok
You're doing God's work here Lu! I think Takis board is gonna blow this thing out of the water but this one certainly gives a cheap option for someone who has straightforward needs. Appreciate the safety warnings!
I’m completely new to MiSTer FPGA and was excited when I saw these clone boards available. I bought, received, and returned this QM Tech board once I saw tweets about the accessory compatibility. I’ll wait on Taki’s board. It looks like his will not have compatibility issues with accessories.
The moral of the story is simple... make sure something will satisfy your requirements BEFORE jumping in feet first. You choosing the wrong product for your needs isn't the fault of the manufacturer.
@@another3997 Nope, it's not at all and it was wrong for me to make an assumption that it would be. I made the assumption that it would have been 1:1 compatible; again I'm new to this entire scene. It was impulsive and I did not do my due diligence. Thankfully, Ali let me return it without issues.
I bought that board and I'm using a power supply with 5v 5a from MiSTer Addons. It's seens works very well. The Qmtech sends to me a 3amper power supply. Great video!
so I guess QMtech uses 3A or 4A :)
I've been testing mine for about a week now and it's easily the coolest machine I've ever owned. Saturn and N64 on this thing are an absolute *dream*.
Welcome to the MISTer project! Agreed, MISTer is so darn cool :D
Really good overview Lu and great video as always. I’ve got mine powered using a Raspberry Pi USC-C power supply connected via a USB-C Female port wired to the Fan (VIN) header
I'm even more excited for the Taki Udon MiSTer handheld. 😊
The DE10 was scalped to high heavens :( I’m glad were getting new alternatives from analogue taki and now this clone :)
I'm waiting for the Taki Udon board. Cant wait.
Wow! This is cool! You can buy two boards for the price of single DE10-Nano.
Thanks for the review Lu. Imho, either preserve compatibility or propose something better, which was not the case. I have one MrFPGA kit (case+DeNano+128GB hub and analog IO) purchased on Aliexpress back in 2021 that works perfectly until today (price with shipping to my country was better than most north american and european sources, plus it was available when most where not). I would like another one with digital io and double ram, I’m lookong forward for the alternatives to land so I can build one hopefully for half the cost. Looking forward to your next review on the clones
Compromises are a fact of life, and as long as any changes are documented, it really doesn't matter how things are laid out. Blindly assuming something is going to be a certain way is asking for trouble. People need to engage their brain cells more often, rather than complaining that something has changed... in the real world, things change all the time.
@@another3997 I don’t disagree, changes are good… but what were the improvements / gains in this case? A drop in replacement has value, as it is a cost effective solution. Would you like PC parts (USB cables, pci-pcie slots , psus etc) to change pinouts, because the OEM can? Standardization is what makes modern life easier, parts are interchangeable and follow a standard. I don’t confuse it with people being dumber and not reading the manual. These are different things
definitely a great video on this kinda thing. Good to know it "works", but I definitely need a good Composite out option if I wanna get one of these so I can hook it up to my CRT. Guess I'll be waiting until the Taki MiSTer consolized versions, or if we get new parts for this one and it ends up being better. My bet's on the former.
Having the port backward to the text on the module is asking for trouble. It probably wouldn't be so bad if the text wasn't there and you have to look for pin 1 instead. Makes me wonder why pretty much all boards of any kind that have GPIO dont have a keyed header
Yeah, I hate that they changed everything up so much.
thanks for video. more competition is great for anyone. although power issue is bit disappointing but I hope they can revise this hardware version not to have similar issue. their 'dual ram' version looks interesting.
Terrific video thank you. They shot themselves in the foot changing the layout though!
It seems some people can't wrap their brains around the idea that two separate products are likely to be different in some way. Apparently, checking things out in advance is too complicated for some people, either before purchasing or before they assemble it. 😂
已经用了一个月了，非常稳定便宜好用，io低解板需要单独订做，和de10的不配套，但也不贵。
This would be a no brainer for me, if Taki's board didn't exist. I would love a second MiSTer for my desk and not have to move my current one between my game room and my computer desk, but this is just off in it's own island. We'll see if they have cheap io and usb boards like Taki is promising, but it's at least something to keep an eye on. Great write up.
I'll be getting the one with SDRAM built in to replace my faulty Pi 4 in my bartop arcade. I just need a usb hub and plastic standoffs for feet.
Thanks Lu, as always really appreciate the work!
Great content as always Lu!
Very nice video, thank you for making it!
Bottom line...wait for Taki's board.
Reading other comments, it sounds like it might depend on worldwide shipping logistics and what county you live in. United States, you're very likely correct
Blanket statements like that show a somewhat limited understanding of the real world situation for many people. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Remember when retrorgb interviewed one of the mister devs a few years ago. Made a complete ass out of himself and showed how little he really knows. He was half snapped asking things of the hardware that no one with a clue would think is remotely realistic.
Take up electronics as a hobby and pickup broken consoles. I've yet to find a console that I was unable to fix and I'm a software engineer and not a hardware one.
99 percent of consoles can be diagnosed with a cheap multimeter and esr meter for checking caps. Learn circuit basics first though. Yt is full of people who know nothing about circuits and ape repairs from people equally as inept. It cracks me up. Fixing something without knowing why it was fixed doesn't translate to being able to fix a million edge cases. Also you can fix your own shit and get expensive electronics from friends who can't fix it then flip it. I dont fix stuff for people either as they'll sell it cheaper and save you a headache. Like when I fixed a neogeo aes for a former friend. I told him I was waiting on a tool and wasn't finished and he took it home and complained it wasn't fixed..... he's also been catfished twice hahahaha
Bless China for giving us a DE-10 alternatives.
Really cool, but the incompatibility with the I/O boards kind of ruins the whole thing. 😮💨 Still glad it exists though, the DE-10 price is stupid.
Everyone is saying the GPIO_0 for the SDRAM is the wrong way round but if you compare it to a DE10 you will notice it is NOT the wrong way round they have just relocated it to the other side of the board so the label on the SDRAM is not correct because of that, cant believe no one has noticed/mentioned this yet.
The issue is that all RAM chips will tell you to face the chip a certain way so it will and has caused confusion. People have already fried their RAM already because of this.
Great video Lu, very informative.
Very comprehensive review, thanks a lot.
Colors between this board and the MIster looked different when you put them side to side. Is it a real life thing? Different settings?
I love taki's board, just wish it was black
You're not cloning the board. You're basically moving the semantic meta data for how it has the logic blocks set up. It's about time the mister had a new fpga given the number of gates and cache in modern low to mid range fpga boards.
The only reason the der10 or whatever costs so much is because people with high disposable income are still buying them so they make just enough at a time to barely meet demand as it's taped out on a legacy node.
It's much more fun to learn how to create on an fpga than it is to waste a fortune on one to game.
I've been mulling over buying a xilinx board and just recreating retro hardware myself. The nand2tetris course is a great way to see if verilog is something someone would be interested in. Learn logic gates first by buying a few breadboards and transistors to learn all the gates and how they build on each other to create or behave just like hardware.
Most cpus and gpus are built on fpga boards when testing new hardware tech.
The only thing i'll say re: compatibility -- it's a double edged sword, if everything is always compatible nothing ever progresses
This looks like your typical Chinese knock offs. Thanks for the heads up mate.
de10 nano looks more brighters
That Wimaxit screen looks really good in this video. Does it look good in person?
I use it mainly for testing. It's biggest issue is it's low brightness. But the low brightness helps with recording since I doesn't over expose easily.
Same flute solo for over 10 minutes. Couldn't handle it after 20 seconds. 😢
Danke!
Thank you for the support!
I probably won't get this particular board as a 2nd MiSTer, but perhaps the potential lower demand will make it more accessible to those who don't mind the flaws.
One thing I was wondering was if the SD card from the DE-10 could just be used in other clones or does the card need to be flashed again
I do see people settling for this board if Taki Udons board sells out.
And yes, you can just take your current SD card MiSTer installation from a DE10 Nano and it will work.
This board would be great for a DIY arcade cabinet or for people with limited budgets. Otherwise, I would avoid it and wait for better options.
That is a great use!
@labnine3362 I hope you’re happy, you just convinced me to order my first MiSTer. 😅 I went with the built-in RAM version to put into my cheap bar-top cabinet. One of the AliExpress reviews said they had issues, but Grumpy Old Gamer UK’s tweet made it sound like they got it working no problem. I guess I’ll find out in a couple weeks, worst case I’ll just image the card it comes with as a backup.
appreciate the overview of this clone. no way i could recommend this if it has such a finnicky power port that can shut off with a tap, and no compatibility with the existing IO boards that have been part of the MiSTer project since day 1. some bad design decisions here
If you want an exact clone of a $200 board, you can expect to pay that much for it. Any electronic devices can have a faulty component or a bad solder joint etc, even expensive ones, whether from the factory or in transit. Compromises ALWAYS have to be made, no matter what the product, but sometimes it's better to have a bird in the hand, rather than 2 in the Bush.
@@another3997 never once have i heard of this issue happening with an actual de-10 nano. quality control in manufacturing is a concern, at any price point. shoddy hardware leads to a poor user experience and I can't get behind that.
Do you have a link for the combo unit including the main board and all accessories including the compatible io board? I am just looking for a bundle but can't seem to find it.
Time for Lu's News folks. Enjoy. 8^)
Recommendations on where to get a pre-built MiSTer with the above board? Lots of folks happy to pay a small premium to not put it together and have to source all the parts. Thanks!
What is the direct video adapter? Is that an HDMi adapter to composite?
So what should this be called for 3rd party add-ons made for it? QMiSTer sounds right me.
“MIncompatible”
Honest question, even without the IO board, can it do composite and VGA out natively? Asking since I want to get one for old school computers with a related VGA computer monitor and a second one for a consolized version for a old CRT TV that only has composite.
Now it cost 150 Euro. Add little more and you can get MiSTer FPGA.
Just spend the extra $95 for the education discounted one and all the compatibility issues are solved. Not a true clone if I must buy a different I/o board
Very puzzling design. Note that the existing IO boards also take advantage of the Arduino pins on the DE10 nano which are not present on this clone. This is probably not going to be the one I recommend to friends -- looking forward to Taki Udon's versions!
@7:00 But what if your adapter doesn't have a micro USB port for charge? Should we then assume that it doesn't require much current in the first place and should work?
My QMTECH is on its way.
You could get a HDMI power inserter if you run in to trouble
@@willyarma_uk In the end it just worked even without power. No idea why. Already sent Lu a message about this.
Does this thing fit the MiSTercade ?
I don't have a MiSTerCade, so I can't confirm. Since it wont physically connect to standard IO boards, I assume it wont physically connect to a MiSTercade. Some people have said that you can probably use a ribbon cable to the GPIO pins to use IO boards that work on the real DE10 Nano.
Alysson Run
Will it run MAME on the ARM side of the board?
30 units all sold out >_<
Whendoes Taki start his orders/pre-orders?
Faye Corners
TY for biting the bullet for us. What a ridiculously dumb decision to make these incompatible with accessories. Lazy. No thanks.
It's already sold out anyways.
It's not based on a reference design! Please ask Terasic about it before telling other people nonsense, which might possibly manipulate their decision
affordable but not in stock
It's would be hard to fake an FPGA chip. So I'm not surprised that everything is working the same on both boards.
Agreed, partly. The OS runs off another non FPGA chip I believe. I don't know how much it is involved in actually running a game or not.
Thompson William Davis Elizabeth Robinson Susan
Can it run ps2
Nope. Max ps1/saturn
@@Kaido_928 damn still might be worth a look tho pretty good price for the soze
I refuse to shop from aliexpress. Hopefully Taki's board is sold in Europe somewhere.
Aliexpress is a great alternative when you don’t have local suppliers, which is my case (or they charge 10x). As with any online shopping, purchasing from reliable vendors (>95% reputation), and filming when opening the package (for precaution) have worked well for me since 2020. I also can find stuff there not available anywhere. Just don’t dismiss it based on bias.
@@AladimBR Still not using aliexpress.
Aliexpress is far far superior to ebay, you are being silly
@@thomassmith4999 Maybe on opposite day.
If it feels cheap and says it's 4a it's TRASH. A 4A supply should have some weight to it. A 2A supply should weigh enough to not "feel cheap" -- this is worse than half its rating. Zero trust in their power supply, I actively feel it would be better without it.
what is direct video are you talking about?