What Changed In India After The Bronze Age?
Vložit
- čas přidán 30. 06. 2024
- In this podcast, Abhijit Iyer Mitra speaks with Kushal about a very specific moment in the history of India. The podcast discusses the changes in India after the Bronze Age and how they impacted the entire nation in multiple parameters and how we deal with them to date.
Follow Abhijit:
Twitter: @Iyervval
#BronzeAge #Technology
------------------------------------------------------------
Listen to the podcasts on:
SoundCloud: / kushal-mehra-99891819
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/1rVcDV3...
Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
Stitcher: www.stitcher.com/show/the-car...
------------------------------------------------------------
Support The Cārvāka Podcast:
Become a Member on CZcams: / the cārvāka podcast
Become a Member on Patreon: / carvaka
UPI: kushalmehra@icici
To buy The Carvaka Podcast Exclusive Merch please visit: kushalmehra.com/shop
------------------------------------------------------------
Follow Kushal:
Twitter: kushal_mehra?ref_...
Facebook: / kushalmehraofficial
Instagram: thecarvakap...
Koo: www.kooapp.com/profile/kushal...
Inquiries: kushalmehra.com/
Feedback: kushalmehra81@gmail.com
00:00:00 - Intro
00:01:04 - Bronze Age - What, why and comparisons
00:45:30 - Bhagirata Reference
00:46:12 - Aryan Invasion
00:57:10 - Indian Recovery
00:59:26 - The Fall of the Bronze Age
01:10:50 - The Iron Age
01:17:28 - India's Self Dependent Economy - Zábava
The knowledge that Abhijeet Sir puts out in these podcasts is amazing. I don't think history teachers in India's best colleges can provide such indepth and critical analysis of historical events in such simplified way. Thank you Kushal sir for bringing out this amazing podcast with Abhijeet sir. There are very few CZcams channels in India that provides such high value information. 🙏🙏🙏
Absolutely true
Loved this video
Yeah for a fellow Bengali MC AIM
must be god because he is rejecting the existence of Indian ethos what better can that be ….. the only thing left with bongs is to change their names so they can be liberated !!!
@@Views-Opinion Tere ko Asaram Bapu ya Ramrahim ke sath jail mein rakhna chahiye tha, wahi tere ko Moksha de sakta hai. Tere jaise hi akal ke andhe log unko chahiye. Ye podcast tere comprehension level se bohot upar hai tu jaake bhains chara aur kisi Ram Rahim ya Asaram type baba ko Thai Massage de , wahi karne layak hai tu.
@@rishighosh5099 Exactly …. U see only negative in Santan but in Bangladeshi you see god, change ur name and get liberated !!! Between these guys have gone to jail during Modi’s tenure and not while ur ilk was in power.
I can’t imagine how come Kali Mata is tolerating you Bongs but then Maa ko boore Ho Yaa acche … bacchons se pyaar hota hai …. even if later generations will destroy her temples or statues … Mata to sirf pyaar karegi …. I hope Kali Mata gives common sense to once the most educated Bongs !!!
I personally felt sad when I heard about IVC decline. AIM is really a good storyteller. Why isn't he directing historical movies?
MC AIM said let’s talk about serious history and not about Mahabharata then Dwarka found under water is supposed to be build by Carl Marx …
Kyaa yeda aadmi hai 😀
Lol a good storyteller who mock and deny mahabharat age. Nice joke. Watch real historian video's to understand it properly.
@@ksc7132
He didn't deny it , he asked kushal to stick to archeology
@MR map Koi bhi real historian Muhammad aur Christ ko real nahi bol sakta, dimaag laga bhai ki koi kaise flying donkey aur virgin mahila se paida ho sakta hai 🙃
@MR map Lekin un dono ko aapke favorite so called "real western historian" ne real figure hi mana hai 🧐 Lekin Hindu figure ko mythology bolte hai 🙃 Agar Muhammad aur Christ real hai toh usse bhi real mahabharat hai.
Man what a podcast. Hands down more padcast on these type of topics We like it so much.
Amazing! Abhijeet, along with Jared Diamond, are my favorite "Big History" experts!!
Abhijit's podcast on history is always good! Do more with him
Guys! This was an eye opening session. I have downloaded it and listen to it again and again. Every time, I learn something new. The logical sequencing and chunking of information delivered is masterful. Very expressive and easy to understand. I feel as if I am looking back and the events are unfolding before my eyes.
I was sure it will be worth my time. And worth it was. 👍🏻 Keep making such interesting podcasts.
Great episode guys! Thank you 🙏🏾
The whole outlook with economics of commodities and logistics between ancient civilizations, make this one of the better use of AIM over the internet, and Kushal you are a gem of a moderator, thank you for setting this up.
Looking forward to the Q and A.
What kind of atheist you are? I am Allah fearing semi atheist
@Alexios I Komnenos I am Allah fking atheist 😎
@Alexios I Komnenos 😂😂😂
My first podcast which listening in this channel which non biased & with full of reaserched . Very good.
Brilliant analysis of historical economic forces.
Very incisive and uncovers a lot.
What you missed on focus is copper sourcing , mining and trading to Egyptian Sumerian civilizations.
I must have watched this 4x in the last week! Abhijit is my intellectual Hero! I never miss his talks! We need more of his knowledge of Ancient India!
Eagerly was awaiting for this one
Most informative . Thanks . Great researches.
Abhijeet ji Thank you for sharing your knowledge. This is one of the most informative and interesting lesson in history.
It is surprising how casually these two laudus are able to be meme reviewers at one moment and serious mind-baffling history podcaster at another moment.
Mehra isn't nearly as knowledgeable
I think seeing those two things as mutually exclusive is problematic.
@@giriprasadkotte9876 granted, he was a buisnessman , not an intellectual.
Mehra comes out as too egoistic for a historian/ politician that's the last thing you have to be in those fields
Non Commercial intellectuals are like these only..
they don't show off their expertise..and focus on a fun life until challenged to rubbish..
Amazing Podcast. Listening twice now.
Great video guys , thanks for sharing knowledge
guys this was amazing.... i would love to hear aim's pov on vedas as well. ..please o a podcast with him on that subject. Thank you so much for this one.
These podcasts are public service broadcasts. Thank you, Kushal & Abhijit.
Great Podcast
Nice presentation linking Egypt, Sumeria and Indus Valley civilizations.
Awesome chat
This is a great podcast. I am loving it.
Thanks Abhijit!! for giving us this precious perspective .. 😊
But Abhijit, I don't think the Bhagirathi story can be timed so recent, you know!
Bhai end of bronze age is no recent date for this post vedic myth , secondly I don't think it has anything to do with people discovering ganga river .
Every episode od AIM om carvaka poscast is worth its weight in gold 😍😍😍
Excellent vlog …!
Good educational session, i wish History is taught like this,
One question, tin exports fall and climate change shifted people from Indus to Ganges, but in India tin was always available for local bronze production so what prompted Indians to shift over to iron and center themselves in Magadha? What prompted technology economy shift?
and where is tin majorly found in India? Chhattisgarh. There was no possible way to sustain the society with major loss in economy. So probably Necessity to sustain did make iron a feasible metal ore to build the society back.
And India is one of the first nation to produce an iron age empire (atleast according to Wiki). This can also be backed up with the precise metallurgical achievements and research that India had.
My guess is that with the lack of tin and hence bronze, they were searching of a metal whose extraction was available locally and thus got the knowledge of iron and its deposits.
By this time technology had caught up & intensity of warfare increased as well. Iron thus becomes a staple against tin which is used only for ornamental purposes.
Brilliant 🔥💯
Finally a long talk by AIM. You are my therapist.
loved it
Never thought I would say this 😂....par takle ko vapis podcast krte dekh bht Kushi mil rhi hai
I wish school college history teachers teach history like AIM does. Fabulous talk
You share Amazing information 🌺🙏🌺
Great info
Love Abhijeet
Kushal can you please create a playlist for your and Abhijit's podcast on such history topics. It is hard to find these video in sequence.
Very good information
I always saw u PPL as goofy in SSS Podcasts...
U PPL have lot of Gyan 👌
great...
Awesome 👌
Abhijit, please consider starting your own channel
He's getting fat like crazy
Ask him to eat during day only, 7am-1-7pm
No snacking in between, only black coffee or green tea , cut vegetables
We need him to be alive for another 30 years at least ❤❤❤❤🙏🙏
Ask him to use trademill
@@millennialmind9507 trade mill mein chakki peesing peesing
Its all about calories in and calories out. Time ke hisab se khaane se fat loss nahi hota.
@@sameerturki4317 this is the worst reply on nutrition ever
Restricting calories leads to slowing of metabolism, cascading original lens fuel to calorie and nutrient deficit along with obesity, craving and snowballs downwards
We need balanced diet 33:33:33
And saturated fats with saturated fatty acids are good for health, stick to good virgin coconut oil, palm oil , animal fats
Moderation, discipline are the key factors
@@madhukark8133 Looks like you have no clue about fitness and nutrition. Ye time wali advice tum jaisa anpadh hi de sakta hai.
Very interesting subject
I like such subjects for discussion
Thanks
Nice aim
Abhijit or kushal could you please suggest some papers or books for what you explained here this is quite interesting ?🙂
PLEASE INCREASE AUDIO LEVELS ITS WAYYY TOOO SOFT THANK YOU.
Back to AIM master class 😍😍😍
My question for the Q&A round is, why don't we have any literary source regarding the IVC period? Could this be their "Satyuga"? Although Rigveda was a Bharata tribe text, but there should have been some mention of a time that was so prosperous.
That's because Rig Veda is also stratified and the older stratifications are older than the mature harappan phase. I don't agree that Anatolia is the homeland of proto IVC.
@Alexios I Komnenos Kushal believes it is the homeland. Yet i found his statements contradicting.
Ivc language ha lekin abhi tak kisi ko samaj nahin aayi wo 😂
@Alexios I Komnenos Why do you think OIT is shit??
Can u plzz explain?
Nice work guys. I hadn't heard about the shift in tin supply as a factor in the Harappan decline. I seem to recall a reference to the rivers shifting and drying up.
I'm interested in ancient migrations, but I don't try to speculate beyond what we can know from archeology and genetics; however, I understand why you guys might have stronger feelings about it considering much of the unsupported claims made in the past.
Question for QnA: Abhijit mentioned Harappan time was very equitable for all. Was the next economic boom i.e. Iron age also equitable for those living there? If not, why? Had the caste mobility become rigid by then?
Good question, most probably, it was not, because of raise of warrior class due to weapons made of Iron.
Social structures are also byproduct of surroundings, so if it had become rigid, that's also has to do something with surroundings not the other way around.
Caste Structures with strict endogamy are noticed from 1500 years ago, which may be caused due to the Gupta Era. This is as per Razib Khan's work on genetics.
@@ChaitanyaDhavala Caste and endogamy is by product of Evey agricultural society, japan had it Egypt had it, in post agricultural societies professions passed through family yo family. Endogamy is also inevitable when people live in small tribal communities .
All these genetic studies so far are based on very small sample size of hundreds and thus can't be used to brush social structure of 3000km width and length land mass .
Before Gupta megasthenes mentions 7 tier hierarchichy in indian society. Caste is as old as it gets.
@@varunkhugshal9049 Your point makes sense as such analysis may have not been conducted for other countries. However, the level of sub-caste endogamy atleast in parts of South India is staggering. Also, the endogamy starts in India, as per genetic analysis by Razib Khan, only from about 1200-1500 years ago.
Fantastic. The fun part is, In the middle of serious archeological and sociological discussion AIM blurtingout BC and sort if saying Ghodo ki topic mae Gadhe is hilarious 😂
Can u do a smiliar podcast on defense planning?
0:49 AIM's smile xD😂😂
Great insight by AIM as usual in our Indian history and how it shaped and developed 💚 don't postpone the QNA too far Kushal 😁
Ivc pak ke ha ok
@Alexios I Komnenos Majority pak me ha 80%
@Alexios I Komnenos Sach ha dekh le kud
MC AIM said let’s talk about serious history and not about Mahabharata then Dwarka found under water is supposed to be build by Carl Marx …
Kyaa yeda aadmi hai 😀
Jago indian, we need to get to our old glory
@abhijit great explanation using archeology economics and various age technologies connecting all the dots. You nailed it. I have one exception though. any knowledgeable person on this topic who knows the whole picture will agree there were many invasions or migrations from central Asia even during the 1700 to 1900 bce time similar to sythians, huns, Turks, kushans etc However the issue is to call it Aryan as the vedics call themselves Aryan and not the central Asian nomads. Perhaps they were the Ashura or the rakshasas or such people who used to disturb the Vedic yagnas which is even documented. So I have no issues calling it the Ashura invasion or migration theory. And as you mentioned perhaps a small percentage of them assimilated and intermingled with some jatis which later mixed with all
I loved the podcast but I would like you guys to do a podcast on population genetics paper published in science.
The migration of of farmers from Central Asia to formation of ANI and ASI. I think that paper largely settles the debate about who came from where.
But few questions..
Harappan culture and language was different from early Vaidic people.
Why that language ( as per recent research using AI Harappan seals most probably show a language) was lost completely?
Is there any archeological/ textual evidence of earliest mining of iron ores in this area of Patna or around place?
I am sure the day is not far when we will crack the Indus Valley civilization.
Hi Abhijit,
Thanks for sharing this knowledge. One critical comment - if you are saying that one of key reasons of collapse of IVC is the dying out of tin trade, your assumption is that the tin trade alongwith lapiz lazuli & carnelian with Egypt, Mesopotamia contributed significantly to IVC's GDP, much more than their internal consumption. What is the basis of this assumption. Also newer studies show that there were early settlements in Gangetic area contemporary to IVC. Wouldn't IVC be having significant trade with its Eastern neighbours?
Fall of trade, coupled with drying of Saraswati river, contributed to gradual fall of IVC.
Exactly, Abhijit is giving too much importance to the trade with Egypt and Mesopotamia during time. Abhijit hunch would only hold water if IVC would have been a single political entity which is next to impossible to imagine.
IVC would most certainly consisted of dozens of city states which would have there own trade surpluses and deficits.
This is most certain that internal trade would be more important to the IVC trade than foreign trade.
@@a_02_prakashnayak59 I had read many years back that the South-West monsoon significantly reduced over many centuries - probably in around 2000 BC and this contributed to drying up of Saraswati - that would have affected agriculture. I think IVC's GDP's major component would have been its internal trade within IVC and agricultural production. That would have been affected badly by the climactic change. The tin trade reduction would have added to this woe, but I dont think it could have been the main reason for the decline of IVC on its own. Even Abhijit admits that IVC was the largest civilization in terms of geographical area. So it wouldn't have that much external dependency and rather it would have a large internal consumption. So the analogy with Saudi Arabia etc who depend mainly only upon oil and dont have agricultural produce is not correct.
Because we find evidence if trade between the two.
We hardly find much of mesopatamian artefacts in IVC
But a lot of IVC artefacts in mesopatamia are observed.
@@a_02_prakashnayak59
Multiple city states ?
All having same type of :
Seals
Brick proportions of 4:2:1
Weights and measures
Bronze with similar contents
Script with similar charecters
All of it same ?
42:57 well we have found sinauli right
So isn't it possible there are urban centers in Ganga at early vedic times to later vedic
You really need to work on the "Thumbnail"(What Changed In India After The Bronze Age?) , you put on the wall. The entire conversation has been stuck till the decline of the late Harappa phase. Bronze never went out of use but remained to continue with the iron age.
@The Cārvāka Podcast The main reason people site not using iron instead of bronze is not having the capability to use higher temperature furnaces. If Iron was locally available from before, why would I pay so much to get a little extra toughness on bronze, It wont make my army significantly weak, if I was able to use iron. It does not add up. Also, is there any backing behind the hypothesis that tin sources dried up after a while? Just curious
Rigveda is clearly not a book of one tribe, especially because vishwamitra and vashistha were from different tribes.
purus were talking about other tribes as well
Main problem with this theory is that TIN, lapis lazuli is found in present day Afghanistan, so why did IVC develop in Indus valley, which is 500 KM away, its not even a port city(like Dholavira , Dwaraka)?
cause of ample water and salt availability
@@sidhantsingh1332 water is there in Afghanistan, salt is also there in takhar salt mines.
🙏
Can you add this one to podcadts
Chalo suru ho jaao 😅😅😂🤣🤣❤️❤️❤️👌👌👌👌
I guess Abhijit never came across the sunken city in gulf of khambat which is almost similar to Indus valley cities.
The Egyptian scarub beetle is the Sanskrit SHARABAS, cognate grab and crab
Indus civilization exported a lot. What did they get in return? They had lots of agriculture, etc. What did they lack, requiring imports?
Gold. The only thing the rest of the world had that was worthwhile to Indians at the time was Gold. Other than that, Indians did not value foreign goods or textiles in those times.
Slaves maybe ?
gold!
Gold i guess...egypt was full of it..
Exactly my doubt. Everything was fine here, what did we get from these other civilizations?
There must be Kings along with traders in Indus Valley civilization.
Maja aagya. Kya comment karu pata nahi tha lekin reach badha ne ke liye kar diya.
Who were the sea people?
AIM is wrong at his hypothesis on multiple occasions (esp on patna jharkhand) in this episode just to prove his logic. He seems very eager as well. He is usually calm.
Oh god
Part 2 of '10 worst policy decisions in history' ?
tin was never added to molten copper, it was melted together.
Doesn't matter, tin mp is much lower than copper
I ain't no chemical engineer but I'm really interested in knowing as to what difference does that make ?
Melting two metals together
Versus
Melting one metal and later adding the other metal.
@@devvratmishra9000 copper melts at 1085 degrees C. Achieving this temperature in a primitive furnace with limited air pushing capacity is extremely difficult to attain. By the time you are even reaching this temperature, most of the copper will oxidize and evaporate. Whatever will melt will be too viscous to cast. It will solidify immediately even with a slight dip in temperature.
But tin is a flux. Which means that when copper is melted with tin, it reduces the melting point of copper to about 900 degrees. It melts very fast, it is thin and pours very easily, just like water and produces a much stronger and much beautiful product. That is the reason. However, in bronze age, ores were melted together, there were never in pure form. After melt, ingot was created and that ingot was used to cast object.
@@alokpandey9532
Fantastic.
Class 12 ki chemistry yaad aa gyi.
Thanks indeed bro for clarifying my doubt.
So basically it was more convinient and feasible to melt them together instead of seperately. Got it now.
Thanks again. 🙏
@@devvratmishra9000 actually practical. That is the reason cast copper is rarely found in antiquity.
economics is more important than history am geography.
we have to learn history geography through the lens and the filter of economics.
everything becomes 10x interesting
🕉️
Also invite the great professors Romila Thapar and Irfan Habib to the podcast on Aryan Invasion.
Mainay abhi dekhna shuru nahin kiya hai par pakka hai aaj phir bharatiye gariyaaye jaayenge😂
🤣🤣🤣
More more
Super star AIM..
That hadappan priest looks like modi
Dear kids, contents is important. It matters a lot.
Just like this video, you have to suffer two irritating people, but you watch nevertheless.
Why no download option?
donate to kushalmehra
Oye Kale, ye video download nhi ho rhi.
Bhaiya namaste. Kya haal?
Bronze create the ancient world , and electricity?__ Created the modern
People communist party of Harrappa😂. But really loved your podcast. Felt like i was in college again and having in discussion with friends.
Drying of Saraswati ?
It's time to spread charvaka philosophy we need more Indic atheists
Man we need more Dharmic people. That's it.
Don't make nastikta like a religion, which needs to be spreaded.
@Pragnesh Kumar
To rationality failao na ,charvak darshan kyun ?
I personally find it pretty irresponsible way of living based on the secondary accounts of other non charvaks describing it
@Pragnesh Kumar
Best hai 👍
Yes so please start the good work in Saudi Arabia
@@devvratmishra9000 Carvaka philosophy can change with time. All faiths have evolved and changed with time, so why not consider an evolved Carvaka path too ? It will help hindus to use atheists against the islamists and leftists, or atheists will just abandon the Dharmic path if this option is not made aware of.
Tin was never discovered in Cyprus..... It was actually copper...
saraswati river dries up at 1900?
Bc
1900 BCE
53:13
Man AIM is a living encyclopedia.
For all his legendary wealth, AIM can't afford good internet connection