The Most Overlooked Advantage of the .38 Special VS the 9mm - Ballistic Test!
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- čas přidán 14. 10. 2021
- Talking about and demonstrating the most overlooked advantage of the .38 Special VS the 9mm. Today I am using Remington HTP ammunition in my ballistic test. The 9mm is a 115 gr JHP Remington HTP and the .38 Special is a 125 gr+P SJHP. I use different barrel lengths to chronograph as well as a 10% Clear Ballistics test with and without 1/4" MDF and a 10 yard accuracy drill. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221
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I wanted to point out, that some kid came on this video to say that at 4:50 I put my finger on the trigger and would negligent discharge. At 4:52 I do slip my finger into the trigger guard as I generally do this to get the fit of the revolver in my hand 100% correct so I have the best possible accuracy when shooting near the chronograph. At 4:54 I then put pressure on the trigger.
My main point is that chronograph work as well as gel work is a lot different than training and target practice. While there are rules such as don't put your finger on the trigger until ready to fire, I have to modify what I do a tad as I was ready to fire. There's some debate on how many seconds your trigger is in the trigger guard before depressing it, but it was safely done as the muzzle was on the target or the hill behind it at all times. A negligent discharge which is very unlikely on a 12 lb trigger, it would be a safe direction.
I never use this method with semi auto pistols for a reason. Even Jerry uses a similar fitting the revolver to the hand with finger in the trigger guard. czcams.com/video/gEHNZFTfSD8/video.html
The new gun safety comments are mostly children. Every revolver I use I have to creep the trigger anyway
It’s safer for me to have my finger in the guard and off the trigger because if you place your finger beside the trigger guard of a small frame revolver you have to either readjust your hand to put your finger in the guard or you could accidentally put pressure on the trigger by trying to force your finger in the guard. At least for those of us with bigger hands.
czcams.com/video/14Ms21yoxJY/video.html #Soundtrack
I can't deal with the long creepy DA trigger pull with revolvers. Which typically seem to be 12-15 lbs. Arthritis will do that to you. It's a problem I don't have with my FN 503. Try one, I think you'd be surprised by the low felt recoil for a striker fired mini like it.
Keyboard quarterbacks..
My reasons for carrying a revolver
(1)no magazine release to fumble with
(2)can't be put out of battery as easily
(3)no slide to rack
(4)misfires=another trigger squeeze
(5)can fire inside a pocket or purse
(6)no failures to feed
(7)no failures to eject
(8)safe DA trigger for pocket carry
(9)the option to go single action in snag free configurations
(10)Lightweight
(11)I'm a fudd
No you're old school!
I’m not even old school but when it comes to concealed I go snub nose. It’s so simple and easy plus what you mentioned. Small pistols can be challenging to operate safeties and mag releases. Plus they look cooler than than a block.
Also, you can change the grips for comfort/control.
@@HalfCrazy520 The size of ammo dictates the min size of the grips. Most woman have smaller hands and find it hard to get a good grip. A revolver, you can get a smaller grip. Hope this helped.
@@HalfCrazy520 So I bought my 1st gun recently & went to the range shooting 200 rounds thru it. Its a Sig Sauer P365 with a green laser. Its sometimes hard to get the fast 2 handed grip but I really like the way it shoots the 9 mm rounds. I know Sig had problems with them at 1st. I have not had any. Also inherited a Smith & Wesson Model 30 revolver ( 1946 ) 32 caliber with a 3 inch barrel with the original box & 4 page manual. Looks like dad never even fired it & neither have I yet ! Compared to my P365 its really heavy. Technology has come a long way.
Recently I had a dud self defense round in my revolver. Primer was hit extremely hard, no bang. What I like best about a revolver is if a dud occurs, you just pull the trigger again, and the revolver goes bang. No time waisted clearing a jam. If a dud occurs in a semi auto, in a self defense scenario, the time you spend clearing a jam could end your life.
Depends on the primer issue. In rare cases the cylinder won't turn cause the primer walked out and you won't get to your next shot. Again...it's rare especially with factory ammo. If you got a problem round, it's a non issue after it's ejected. In a revolver a hang fire can fire when it's not in front of the barrel which can cause a kaboom. Another reason to not use reloads as carry ammo but you see even with expensive factory ammo it can happen.
@@onpsxmember Both right , A DA/SA auto may fire on the 2nt hit , both can get a squib . A revolver can jam a few different ways . Best you can do with both , keep em clean , oiled & use good ammo & look at each round when you load carry ammo .
@@danoneill2846 Roger that ! I inspect every round before I load it into my gun that I carry for defense.
Revolvers occasionally have a malfunction but not very often. I’ve heard of bulged primers making a revolver in operable. Carrying two J frames is my solution to the potential Texas reload👍🏻
@@onpsxmember "In rare cases among already rare cases" would be a more accurate way of phrasing that particular phenomenon. We are on 2nd order of extreme rarity: In other words irrelevant even within the context of discussing handgun fighting.
You asked for comments. Here is mine. I am retired now but I was a cop for 28 years in a larger city. The FBI statistics show us that most gun fights take 2 to 4 seconds with 2 or 3 rounds fired being the total average. So firearm capacity is not really that big of a deal. There could be exceptions. I was a firearms instructor and I taught many many people how to gun fight. A lot of that training had to do with the clothing, holsters, belts and equipment one wears. You mentioned pistols jamming (usually failure to feed). Those can be caused by hands getting in the way of the slide, clothing getting caught, I have even seen left handers having rounds bounce off of walls and back into the ejection port causing a stoppage. So the moral of the story is: things are not always the same and bullets do funny thing sometimes. You have noticed that the gel tests sometimes give surprising results. That can be because you only fire so few rounds into it. If you fired 100 times into the gel for each test your averages would likely vary. I am not saying you should, I am saying bullets do not always do what the box says they do. I find your videos interesting and fun to watch, which is your goal I suppose. You shoot pretty well. I trained my guys to shoot from the ground (because things shift on ones belt in that position and reloads feel different). I also used dummy rounds mixed into the magazines to force unexpected malfunction drills and lots of other things to make clearance drills automatic. We put officers on the clock and after some training the stoppages (both primary and secondary) were cleared in seconds This is getting long but MOST of the malfunctions we encountered in actual shootings were caused by bent magazines, not by the ammo. That is not to say that ammo cannot cause them. Training is paramount so that when things go bad your brain automatically does what it needs to. The time for thinking and figuring things out is on the range. Keep up doing what you do. Stay safe.
I agree 100%. I number my mags so I know which one is the bad one and I know which one feeds swc and hollow points and the ones that are picky about ammo.
Shoot club level bowling pins and steel plants. It is amazing how much stress can be caused just by the clock and what happens when the stress cause you to throw out the fundamentals and start spraying and praying. It also shows you what happens when you can block everything out and use the fundamentals. You can see how fast you go by being smooth and concentrate.
Because of short fingers I've always shot 1911's with single stack mags and I have never felt undergunned
Yeah, a revolver will never eject a HOT spent case down your shirt or behind your glasses! I have had both happen on the range with autos!.........................elsullo
@@biggunshandguns3687 As a retired federal law enforcement officer and firearms intructor, the Miami shootout basically was responsible for the change over from revolvers to 9mm autos. And it was a change I supported. And by the way the best caliber and the most effective weapons and ammo preference was and is a 357 magnum with a 4 inch barrel useing a 125 grain hollowpoints. And as much as I like the weapon and caliber. It is a heavy weapon for concealed carry. And depending on were you live, it can be a pain to carry concealed. For instance in my area the summers can be brutal, with high humidity and temperatures in the high 90s. And on a few occasions I have seen primers back out of a fired round and it takes a major effort to get the weapon operational again. As for automatic pistols it's usually a new shooter limp wristing the weapon. And yes cleaning and proper lubeing a auto pistol is essential to maintain its preformance. So while I like auto loaders, and carry them as my everyday carry weapon. I relise that be a revolver or auto loader, all handguns have their limitations. Or has someone once said, only a fool knowingly carries a handgun to a gunfight. And haveing access to more efficient and effective weapons, a mp5 or a 1212guage shotgun or ar15 would be my first choice. And after mounting a surefire 6p weapons mounted light on my ar15 carbine. I was completely sold on weapons mounted lights. But as the surefire 6p was only 65 lumens, but due to it's dimpled reflector, it put out a decent amount of light. But it wasn't until I retired that I begin to look for a more powerful light. And I researched and ended up getting a streamlight protac HLX weapons mounted light. It worked so well on my ar9 carbine, that I mounted one on my ar15 carbine. But to use it correctly low light and no light training is needed. And I've mounted streamlight tlr8a to my glock19 and 23 as well as my sig320c. And have not looked back.
I'm new to this shooting thing 😂. Gonna get mag holsters asap, thx.
I carry a 38 snub sometimes, but usually I'm carrying a Glock 19 with an extra mag. Im not as good with the snubby as I am with the 9mm. When I think of which gun I'd rather have on me when an unexpected event such as a car jacking or home invasion, robbery, etc happens, i'd want the Glock 19 every time. That being the case I carry the 9mm mostly and only carry the snub if I'm lazy or I need really deep concealment for some reason. Sometimes its a chore to carry the Glock 19 but I know if something should happen I feel much better with that gun in the holster. Others may feel differently and thats ok with me, to each his own.
The most overlooked advantage of a revolver is being able to shoot it despite heath conditions. I've experienced my grandfather loose hand strength at 76 years of age. Where he couldn't rack the slide on his auto action handguns. It was very depressing seeing him unable to shoot his favorite handguns. I've also experienced my mother break her left wrist and unable to rack the the slide on her 9mm handgun. Even years after recovering she is unable to rack the slide back. A simple 38 special revolver requires the least amount of work to fire.
Let me also add to this...I shoot in competition. The club I belong to, usually once a month will host a "fun" match where we can shoot any handgun we wish as the scores don't go toward our standings. That's when the revolvers come out. I've seen many a semi auto jam over the years. Never repeat never a revolver.
@@hoobertheever4640 I had to use my issued revolver more than once during my career, qualified w/it for over 20 years and NEVER experienced a problem w/this platform. Call me old school but I’m coming from a perspective of 30 yrs. street experience.
correct!
Can he rack the slide using his belt, clothes, or a table? I learned that in a pistol course I recently took and was amazed at how little strength it takes (you are using your upper body strength to push down) to rack the slide. You can essentially do it one handed. I would think with weak hands he'd also have trouble with the double action trigger on a revolver.
@@zachb.6606 unfortunately he passed away years ago. with a double action revolvers you can cock the hammer back first to reduce force. Yes pulling the trigger to cock the hammer back can be tough for some.
Thing I like about revolvers is the spent casings aren't left behind.
Yeah?
😳
Don’t cut yourself on all that edge
Pesky fingerprints.
@@GunSam Right?
Revolvers definitely have the advantage when it comes to being able to handle a greater variety of bullet styles and weights. I can load bullets from a 67 grain round ball at 400 fps up to a 230 grain sledgehammer at 740 fps, full wadcutters to gaping hollowpoints in the 38 Special and never experience a malfunction due to bullet shape or weight. And the blunter bullet design of most revolver rounds is less likely to deflect off of bone. Lots of advantages to wheelguns.
I bought a Do-It Sling Shot Pellet mould many years ago (BB-20-M2) the large pellets are just a bit larger than .358, run them trough a Sizer/Lubricator. 2 of them wheight 140 Grns and with the propper stiff powder load you have a bouble tap with every shot, They actually engage rifling. If you reload shotgun, the smaller pellets are perfect # 1 Buckshot
We now that’s the one that actually know about their guns
Was looking up the new Leight Defense 355-357 Dia Bullets, In 357 the lightest is about 100 Grns (could be sizzler) yet in 355 they make 60-65 grainers and you could stack two in a 38/357 case. And if you ask 9mm work fine for close range in a 38
You have some studies about that deflecting off bone likelihood? I’m interested.
Handloading dream.
Thank you for the comparison. I was a little surprised that the .38 penetrated deeper, but happy. I like my .38/.357 revolvers
If you look at reloading data for it, it's a more stout round than 9mm, even 9+p. Then if you load it as .38+p it has even more oomph. Main downside is capacity- 9mm wins hands down there.
@@captainnibby If it takes 5 or 6 9mm hits to stop an attack, all that capacity doesn't seem significant anymore. Statistically when compared to .357sig, .357mag, .40 S&W... 9mm isn't that great.
He was using +P with the .38 and regular with the 9, so it was not a fair comparison.
@@jhhayesiiseems fair insofar as most 9mm JHP personal protection ammo I have come across is standard pressure and most .38 special personal protection ammo I have come across is +P
@@gusr6 your idea of fair is different than mine. I buy +p 9mm hollow points for personal protection and believe that caliber aside, the comparison should be apples to apples, not apples to oranges.
For 38, I use 158gr LSWCHP. 750FPS. It hits and it works. 3"? Yep 6"? Yep.
The British carried 38S&W (the caliber, not the gun) in Webley top break revolvers until like 1965. They were using 200 grain lead bullets at 650ish FPS. And they worked.
I’m glad to see someone focus on the .38 special. It is a solid round that has given decades of service to lawmen and gun owners. Enjoying your channel!
The .38 lacks stopping power. If it was so great the police would still be using it.
Capacity, but he's right a 38 Sp +P would serve anyone well in a self defense situation. @@williamstewart1294
@@williamstewart1294 police like to dump 20 rounds into a target. there are no 20 round .38s.
@@williamstewart1294It worked just fine for me.
@@williamstewart1294Dude in Wyoming killed an attacking Grizzly with it.
I couldn’t agree more..I love every ome of my semi autos,love shooting them for fun. Im an older guy who has been shooting for many decades. All my semi autos have had a ftf at one time or another under controlled conditions at the range. Not one time have I had a jam in any of my revolvers. Can it happen? I guess so,but never has to me. That is why when I pick up to pack it is always a revolver.
That has been my experience too. I've only had misfires with revolvers that I've bought used that had "Trigger- Action jobs" done to them. And that was not the ammo's fault. But over the years, I have had "jams" with various autoloaders. From cheap ones to expensive ones.
@@shadowwolf2524 A “trigger job” that reduces the main spring strength is a BAD trigger job. A good trigger job stones and polishes all the hammer and trigger parts to make the factory action smoother, and reduces trigger pull weight without reducing mainspring power.
@@pecosjane It pays to choose a gunsmith very carefully.
One downside to revolver reliability is when they do malfunction its often something that bricks it until brought to a gunsmith
@@heatheryllanes6925 So I have heard. No debate on that from me, just the fact thatI have never had a jam. I do however see a semi becoming useless also at least temporarily for a number of reasons. Its just me, a preference,thats all.
I alternate carry between the two, it’s just the right way to live.
ps. Revolvers really are classier.
Thanks
I've been carrying one of each lately. A S&W 642 38 snub and a Taurus G2C. I've always liked a revolver. You don't have to buy extra mags or guide rod,etc. I just traded for a nice ole Astra Cadix 9 shot revolver made in '66. Deep blueing that is still pretty nice. And a Don Hume leather holsters with it. Old school. All steel, blued and leather. It is classic. It's sitting right by me on the kitchen table.
I carry BOTH.
@@Key5ser5oze moon clips suck is why
They are. There are very few semis that I consider attractive looking, whereas I think most decent revolvers just look good. I just got a Taurus 856. It's a 400 dollar revolver, but it still feels better and looks better than the sig p365 I just bought
For the soft lead reference, I agree. I tried some 38 Spl frangible rounds - impressive. Still a revolver fan.
I had a revolver lock up and would not fire.It turned out that it had gotten dirty behind the ejector, and it would not let the ejector fully extend, so the cylinder could not rotate. The gun would not fire. New shooters who use revolvers need to know this so they will clean behind the ejector. I really enjoy your videos, thanks.
I got a 357 magnum for free once because the same issue. A friend told me I could have it if I could fix it. In 15 minutes I had it fixed. He got it from a friend who got it 5 years before. My friends jaw dropped when I fixed it. He thought it was was permanently locked up.
Good advice.
@@tallak9829 nothing is permanently locked up from a guy named Ole Olson.
No revolver has an ejector .you're full of shit
My .38 snub’s superpower is being able to have 2 hollow points and 3 ratshot in the cylinder and being able to choose which one I shoot. Great hiking/camp gun. We only have black bears where I live, so we don’t need higher calibers. My 9mm’s superpower is a suppressor. Each one has it’s place. I love your videos. Great presentation.
38 special will always be my favorite round and I personally feel like it's more accurate can handle heavier bullets and different profiles plus look way more intimidating to anyone
I used to run a military range where our security force ran both revolvers and semi autos. I have seen innumerable jams/malfunctions from both types. When (not if) you have a malfunction with a semi auto, the shooter can often clear it and get back in the fight. When you have a malfunction with a revolver, you mostly need the services of an Armorer or gunsmith. The chances of having a non ammo related malfunction with a revolver in good condition is very, very low. Moral of the story is to make sure your carry gun (and ammo) is in good condition, no matter which type it is.
But, even though I hear this a lot, my experience is the opposite. While I never had a revolver issue, jam, etc...I have had a semi auto jam with the case so stuck in the chamber that the extractor was useless. It took me 10 minutes with a rod to clear it, after I got home. If I had needed that gun there would have been no simply clearing it.
There are dirt test videos showing a worst case scenario revolvers where significant crud gets into the lockwork, resulting in the cylinder freezing and the revolver becoming non functional.
A pistol in a similar situation might not cycle, but could possibly be manually cycled and work as a single shot.
So you do know about both of them can Jam up
Ehh . " Revolver action packed with crud " is more of a hypothetical , or at most a bringing one back into use after 30 yrs of storage thing .
For more or less basically servicable guns , 50 % plus are crud under ejector star . A prepared instructor has a toothbrush in their pocket , 10 seconds up & running again . Even by yourself , blow , scrape with fingernail or pocketknife , and up & running in 1 minute .
Backed out ejector rod , tighten with fingers usually good for at least a couple more cylinders . A prepared Instructor will walk over to their range bag/ brief case , pull out their pliers , just just a hair more torque than fingers , and be good for at least an extended range session . The controlling time factor is walking over to range bag/ briefcase .
Best Practices is to disassemble , clean , reassemble to torque spec , preferably with the suitable grade of loctite .
Sounds like a security force who treated both types of handguns the same, probably general cleaning and maintenance neglect. Revolvers tolerate neglect less than semi-autos.
Great video. I appreciate these tests and your knowledge. I think you make it pretty clear that 38 special does not take a back seat to 9mm. I love revolvers and carry 38 special in a snub nose quite a bit. I trust revolvers more as far as reliability and I am able to shoot them better than I can shoot semi autos. It’s good to see a demonstration that proves that the 38 special is an effective defensive round.
Thank you.
Yeah even after all these years it commands and gets respect !!!!
I get the feeling after watching several comparison videos, we may be splitting hairs here. The main objective in self defense is to stop the threat. Thus either round will do the job assuming you can hit the attacker.
Assuming hits on subject, how many did it take to stop the threat? That being the question, what makes one thing a relative low-performer vs. another thing a consistently high performer? That's the sort of details people are on this channel to find out. If people aren't interested in terminal ballistics, then everything seems to be a factor of splitting hairs, arguments of semantics, mundane chatter, biased and emotional reasoning.
In the heat of combat you will not philosophing about "stop the threat". You will just pull any trigger in a somewhat direction of the perceived threat and pull the trigger many times past the gun is empty. Then throw the gun at the threat if it still comes at you and look to grab the next stick. A saber or sword may be handy as a last resort or any type of knife. Maybe thinking of resurecting the bayonet again...
@@9mmfederalrimmed235 If that is all the further you think about a defensive situation, get training. If/when the threat stops, the next threat begins: legal system.
@@9mmfederalrimmed235 I understand in the moment of attack where your life is on the line, there's not time to think, just save your life. However, long before the attack, you chose what you feel is the best gun and round for your needs. That's where you carefully consider, will this stop an attacker?
If they are hit with most any round they will have a bad day
Great video, all true. What a lot of people forget is that an engagement for a civilian averages between one and three shots and once that bullet leaves the barrel it can't be called back. An engagement is normally under 7 yards and overpenetration is a problem. The effectiveness of the 38 Special is undeniable and with newer bullet technology both the 38 and 9mm have become a very good choice once again. For LE personal the 9mm is the choice with it's extra velocity and capacity in a full size fighting arm, period. For the average citizen the 38 Special in a small frame revolver especially with a 3" barrel is about ideal IMHO. I have a PPS and an M&P but I CCW a steel 3" Taurus 856 6 shot Defender or a 7 shot 3" Ruger GP100 both loaded with 110gr 38+P. Formidable and with the extra weight of the steel revolvers they are very fast. I have a Smith 642 and a SIG 365 and find them very concealable BUT follow up's (speed) and accuracy suffer by a large amount. That 3" Taurus just rocks with the 38 Special in both standard and +P rounds, the extra weight is unnoticeable and my biggest concern is putting steel on target under stress. And yes, I have had autoloaders jam especially during the second shot after a draw single handed (real life) where your grip might not be perfect and you need time to regrip. Anyone that has never experienced that doesn't shoot that much, is taking time to shoot 2 handed or will just not admit to it.
Many people deride the .38 Special mostly based on past performance with round-nosed lead bullets. With modern hollow point ammo at typical self-defense distances, the .38 has been proven to be quite effective. The 9mm is also effective under the same conditions. It just comes down to which one you're able to put on target better. Either one will get the job done.
I have seen numerous people shot with +P 38 special 125 grain JHP's and they all failed miserably.
@@robertwilkinson2293 So, you're a cop? or an ER doctor??
@@Luckyrider1958 Facts matter.
@@robertwilkinson2293 yet twice now you fail to tell us where "yours" came from??
@@Luckyrider1958 Mine? As in my opinion? From seeing people shot. Its called experience.
Excellent content... In contrast to what other "experts" do - mostly repeat what's "common" knowledge- Sam actually shows the EVIDENCE supporting his claims...
I love revolvers but have several semi autos! Thanks for sharing your test! I also in 40 years of shooting have never had a revolver malfunction but several semi auto malfunctions
Yea. I think you are not alone in that comparison. For me this video reinforces the idea that I rally have to have the right load of ammo if I carry an auto for defense.
One of the best videos I watched so far, I agree 💯
The reliability and shot placement along with expansion and penetration of the bullet.
I really appreciate your expertise along with all the work you have placed into this video. Great job!
Great work as always man. I’ve noticed that a lot of guys bring up your channel in a very positive light in the comments section of many big CZcams channels. It’s cool to see that you get the respect and kudos that you deserve. Just passing that along to you as a feel good booster to you.
I would like to thank you for making such an in depth reviews of the .38 vs 9mm. It's not that often that the reviewer goes to include the effects sternum vs gut shot into ballistic gel, Well done. You have even included the most likely 10 yard shot to steel. Also the long vs the short barrel of each class. Well done👍
My everyday carry is a Ruger LCR loaded with +P hollow point ammo. Dependable, reliable and able to stop most threats I may be confronted with outside my home. #1 rule is avoid bad areas!
Great video as always. Your summary at the end put it all in perspective. Everyone who carries a gun should watch that. No one thinks of the things you brought up. Most people just assume, but have no idea or experience.
Great presentation and very well edited. Your videos are always reliably watchable.
Great points made, and during an ammo shortage having a handgun that isn't ammo sensitive or picky but can still deliver the goods is a real benefit. It's hard to argue with the versatility of a 5 to 6 shot revolver that can chamber .38 or .357.
Yeah, and now days there are very little points for having a .38 Special (only) revolver over a .357 Magnum, unless cost is prohibiting as snubbies in the 12-14 OZ range are way cheaper in .38 Special only. I used to hear that chamber "jump" would make a .38 in a .357 revolver shoot slower, then I tested that and saw no difference in velocity. Go with .357 revolvers whenever possible.
Good video and production values. As far as revolvers jamming - I have had it happen with junk ammo that left a lot of carbon residue (never use Monarch .357). Also things like an extractor star coming loose (RIA M206) or the cylinder screw backing out and causing the cylinder to bind (Taurus 856). The extractor rod on a S&W Model 66 came loose one time and bound the cylinder. It happens, but not at the same rate as semi-autos. A handful of examples compared to many with semi-autos I've owned; usually ammo related. Bottom line - shoot and check your firearms periodically and keep them clean and lubricated.
Choice words of wisdom.
Thanks. Yeah that's the big thing. Anyone who shoots a revolver and cleans it, checks the screws and whatnot before shooting again has no trouble. But much like back in the day when you "weren't" supposed to put any oil on a Glock, many gun owners treat their revolvers the same.
I have been shooting semi-autos and revolvers for 50 years. The only time I had a revolver jam was a cap-n-ball revolver where a piece of the cap had blown into the mechanism.
I love your setup ! Very professional!
I think there are a few people that didn't quite understand my point, so I will simplify it. In our longer barrels with the 9mm VS the .38 Special, the 9mm had 111 ft lbs more energy than the .38 Special. With the 9mm in the 5" pistol in the MDF and gel we got 14.25" penetration and .562" expansion or 1.58 times expansion. With the .38 Special in the 4" revolver in the MDF and gel we got 13" penetration and .543" expansion or 1.52 times expansion. If we count 2" more for the MDF we are looking at the 9mm at 16.25" penetration and the .38 Special at 15" penetration, and both just over the desired 1.5 times expansion (if you want to nit pick it, the .38 actually had more expansion as only a few sharp petals made the 9mm have a greater expanded diameter). In my "real world" shot using MDF, they truly are near even performance all the while the .38 Special did it with 111 FPE less energy. Hence my main takeaway that energy isn't everything.
That's a good point about those "semi soft points." Those .38 loads seem underpowered to me considering you have more powder space in a .38 special than a 9mm. Then burn speed comes into play.
@@phil20_20 More space was needed when the round was invented as a black powder cartridge.
Pretty similar. Not a huge difference in terms of overall effectiveness.
As far as revolver reliability, problems are usually related to cleaning, which is an avoidable problem. Dirt or unburned powder under the extractor is the only time I've ever had a jam with a revolver.
@Shaquan Smith if the bullet penetrates deep enough to reach vital organs, there's a very good chance it's gonna kill, even if there's little or no expansion.
I like your no-nonsense approach to testing. It’s amazing how different bullets can react when shot into the same medium. Subscribed
Have been a fan for about 2 yrs. And have great confidence in your recommendations and love your videos. I now own a Ruger SP 101 in 357 cal ,I practice with 38s and occasionally shoot the 357s.It’s an ideal combination.
Great points Gun Sam: full size vs compact/snubbie for accuracy (sight radius), capacity, penetration/expansion; FMJ vs. Hollow Points for reliability especially important in semi-autos; Thanks again!
Thorough and insightful thought process. Nice job.
Another overlooked advantage of the .38 Special is that the majority of home defense situations take place at night, often with the home defender being woken up with all the lights off. In that situation the lower pressure .38 will produce lower muzzle blast, which is far more helpful than most people appreciate (or even contemplate) in that most commonly encountered self-defense situation.
My primary home defense piece is a S&W M65 3" and after testing out various rounds in a close quarters, dark indoor environment I actually switched from .357s (125gr JHP full power and 110gr JHP medium velocity that's comparable to 9MM ballistics) to the FBI load .38 158gr LSWCHP because it's significantly easier to handle in the dark, particularly for follow-up shots. I'm not recoil shy but muzzle blast bouncing off of four close walls in the dark is difficult, and I can imagine it being far more difficult still if I was just woken up from a deep sleep.
I agree. Also, a longer barrel would also reduce muzzle blast, but with the downside of being less concealable
@@fortnite.burger True but for home defense, concealability is not an issue. With that in mind, my opinion is that a pump action tactical shotgun is the best option for inside the home defense. Racking a round sounds ominous; the boom is bigger when you fire; it's easier to aim and hit what you aim at; knock down power is much better than a handgun and with the right loads, you are not likely to put hot lead through the third drywall covered interior wall or the exterior wall of your home to fly through the bedroom window of your neighbor's house. And if you prudently keep your pistol or revolver in an IWB holster, you can stick it in your waistband as you are moving to your closet to retrieve your shotgun. Best of both worlds.
@@gregorydamario7977 I agree. One thing though, it's been found unless you're using very small shot, 12 gauge will still penetrate drywall and have enough energy to still be lethal afterwards. You could say that for example a 556 or 762 will be even more lethal after going through a wall, but keep in mind there are several pellets with buckshot whereas with a 556 or 762 cartridge there's only 1.
Great work as usual Mr GSRA. - You show how there are so many 'VARIABLES' that can effect results. - I used to shoot my 9 mm Glock 17 in bowling pin matches and "normal ammo" was rubbish on clearing the tables (it over penetrated & left the pins spinning) .. so I loaded some 158 grain semi-jacketed soft lead hollow points low velocity and got them to feed fine in the semi-auto by spraying their noses with silicon from a rattle can. I won a beer mug in 'nine for nines' anyway ..
You just revised my view of the Colt Officer's model in 38 special my grandfather had back in the 20s. It will do just fine.
Great video Sam thanks for your hard work
Thanks for watching!
A very interesting set of tests. Thanks for posting. The ballistics results had a LOT of variability. (surprising). Also, given how much slower the 38 was (more than proportional to its greater weight), I was surprised how close its travel was compared to the 9mm. Of course the zinger here is the revolver's option to run a 357 Mag.
@@SelfEvident Well, laud, in case you don't know, the reason I mentioned the 357 is that the revolver used here is a S&W 686, which is chambered to fire BOTH the 357 and the 38 special.
So, I ask you...why be so rude? Why are people like this?
Good talk man! I’ve always taken for granted my full size 9mm pistols shooting my fmj so reliable. Good to know that’s a thing. I really enjoyed the 10 yard point shooting and the 10 yard faster fire. Good work, Thanks!
Thank you.
Great analysis. Thank you for posting and putting in the time and effort into this. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
Good video, I carry two different .38 Specials, and on occasion a .357 Magnum in revolvers. The last problem I had with a revolver was in 1978 while carrying a S&W mod 19 as the timing stopped the rotation of the cylinder.... no problems with revolvers since.
Liking and posting for that catchy Al Gore Rhythm! Staying for the great, intelligent commentary!
Another overlooked advantage of the .38spl snubby with an internal or shrouded hammer is the ability to fire from inside a coat pocket or under bed covers without snagging or getting tangled up.
Thanks Sam, this was really a great video and you made some great points about the different types of ammo you can shoot out of the 38spl. I think if you buy quality firearms and take care of them then you're more likely to have reliable firearms. Even though I have had great reliability with my semi autos I still trust my revolvers more, I guess it's just embedded in my head. I have the same s&w with a 5" barrel you have and I can say for 2 years I've never had a jam with that pistol. I just love that gun and it's just been really great and a pleasure to shoot.
The best side by side comparison video I have seen yet, nicely done with no hype and gripe.
I appreciate that!
Good point on the 9mm jacket design for semi-auto reliability. Since I avoid getting drawn into the capacity argument my only interest between these two rounds is essentially terminal performance. And from what I see, there less than a dimes's worth difference between the two calibers when you try and match the bullet size up front. What is also obvious to me, again, is just how impressive that S&W M&P 5" pistol really is. My 5" 9mm full-sized pistol of choice is my Beretta 92G Vertec but I'm seriously looking at the M&P to add to my collection. While I generally have more semi-autos in my collection, I do have a few Ruger revolvers (GP100 and the SP101 2.25 and 3.16") I shoot very well. The only revolver issues I've seen (in 50-plus years of shooting both designs) is with a cylinder that would not rotate because it had crud build up under the extractor that prevented the rounds from seating properly and one case where a primer on a questionable reload backed out and prevented the cylinder from rotating. But, as with all things mechanical, you pays your nickel and takes your chances.
Are you rich?
I had a man walk up behind me quickly in a dark parking lot one night .. was carrying a Semi-auto but found myself wishing I had my revolver .. luckily he walked past with no incident but this experience woke me up.. I now carry my revolver.. I thought it was going to possibly be a close contact experience with wrestling and grappling and I wanted a revolver for that kind of fight
Yep. That's why I carry 1 or 2 LCRs every day. Just today a shady character kept shadowing me on my park walk. He would veer off every time I turned to look. I moved the LCR from holster to pocket...just in case. Try firing that 9mm 5 times from within a jacket pocket. 🙁 Not happening after the first round.
Thank you for a very good test video. Well done, all business and no fluff. Good Job!
Wow. That's a lot of work. Thank you for this great presentation.
Don't forget full wadcutters and double ball rounds. My personal favorite is a heavy, pure lead, full wadcutter hollow point.
yep same here a lead semi wad cutter hollow point SOFT lead.
Buffalo Bore makes a good one in standard pressure.
I have a 9mm Hi-Point 😂 which I love but regardless, I feel more comfortable carrying my 38 special full time because they never JAM! That and it’s more powerful! At least I think it is!
A great presentation between the 9mm and the 38 special. I learned a great deal and it strengthened my opinion of my 38 special gun as a carry gun. Thank you so much.
Start the new year with 35,000 ++ Subs !! Good Job
If you need more rounds than a revolver holds ----- (1) you spend more time at the range increasing your skills, and/or (2) you should learn how not to get into situations where you may need a lot of rounds (the best self-defense skill is avoid circumstances where you need to resort to self defense).
Agree .. you should not need more than 3rouds .. because the the guy will not need more than 3.. ,, these thing happen very fast and there is n much time
@@Gitfidlpickr Unless you are doing two to the chest one to the head, you must consider in the future body armor, since it is becoming more and more popular and cheaper. Criminals will/may start using it especially if they are going to be a mass shooter and thus having more than 5/6 to walk up a torso to get to the head isn't a bad idea.
@@mcsupersport Ok .. but this is all imaginary. Very few people have ever been in a gun fight (good) and the worsts gun fight sxeem to be in gas stations (gang v gang) Here's one czcams.com/video/551_wlV44GU/video.html
@@Gitfidlpickr Yeah, that is most common, one punk at an inopportune time or gangs having issues around you, but that is also rare when you consider the numbers of people who do everyday things and have no issue. You have to plan for the what-if, otherwise what is the point of carrying a gun in the first place as most times you will never have an issue. Body armor and multiple people are becoming more and more common, so do you really want to be facing 3 armed punks with only 5-6 readily available shots?? Pistol rated body armor is now in the 400 dollar range, and easily gotten in most states. Do you want to be facing two punks and one is smart enough to have body armor with 5-6 rounds?? Do you want to be caught BETWEEN two gangs maybe of 6-8 people with 5-6 rounds to defend yourself?? Are revolvers good, yes, are they the best choice, sometimes, but you ALWAYS have to understand their limitations much as you do semi-autos, and lack of extra readily usable shots is one issue. Having 9-19 rounds gives you options, that a revolver simply doesn't have, but in the end, shoot what you feel comfortable with and what fits you.
@@mcsupersport I have faced one punk and two punks and one shot was fired in the first instance and none in the second case. Previously I had to face 8 armed with guns (but as a Trooper). But actually a 6 shot revolver will suffice (with some speed loaders) or a 12 gauge shotgun (00 buck) will suffice ..BUT IT IS A FREE COUNTRY and we are free to arm ourselves was we wish. There is a wide variety of calibers, designs, magazine capacities, gun brands, etc. We can arm ourselves the way believe is best. and then we are prepared for whatever we see as a potential threat.
I’ve been shooting revolvers over 50 years & NEVER experienced any kind of malfunction. I’ve only been shooting semi autos for 30 years and experienced a variety of failures in .40, .45, 9MM & .380. I still carry my LCP in the summer but this particular gun has never malfunctioned so I do trust it.
Thanks for another great comparison, Sam. Both .38 Special and 9mm Lugar represent a high percentage of personal defense loads people use and with a good ammo selection for your particular firearm, effectiveness.
Quality of this video is hard to find these days. Awesome video, amazing information, outstanding job sir
The "ammo shortage" has kept me with a stockpile of older ammunition and the purchasing of questionable ammo. A primer misfire with an autoloader during self-defense situation could be game over for the shooter. The simple immediate action for a misfire with a double action revolver is to pull the trigger again.
I ECW a .38 Special +P 5-shot Charter Arms snubbie and I have never felt the need for anything more in my 30+ years of carrying. I am not a LEO nor a hero. I carry to protect me and mine, period. If I can't get the job done in five shots it is not the guns fault, no caliber will make it any better. An experienced, practiced shooter who is cool under pressure should be able to drop a target with a .38 with 2 shots or less. If not you don't deserve to be carrying.
Many excellent and arrogant shooters have professed the same thing and lost. There are so many variables involved that your statements come from a complete lack of factual data regarding actual shootings and their outcomes. what about multiple assailants or those determined to fight regardless of sustaining a non-survivable hit? This is not TV. Barney only carried one round in his pocket. Perhaps with your supreme confidence you can do he same.
Great job with this video. Thanks for sharing!
As usual, an excellent video. Brought up something I scarcely ever thought of, and that's the terminal performance between semi jacketed hp and jacketed hp in 38 special and 9mm. Just thought of fpe at muzzle and 25 yards, particularly between 38 special and 9mm. This wasn't just academic musing for me as I am old enough to have been an LEO who was required to carry a 38 special, when the Bad Guys were getting 9mm. Because I always carried extra ammo in speed loaders and qualified Expert as well as doing substantial tactical training with other officers, I don't feel in retrospect that I was disadvantaged. I also wouldn't feel that way now in carrying CCW. Thanks again Sam, for excellent work.
Great video. This time with the short range there is no misunderstanding with the target distance with some people. Is there a huge difference in lead hardness with those semi-jacketed rounds? Over the last few tests quite a lot won't open as intended from a snubby. I recently read an old article about casting in two stages with a softer nose and adding the harder base right after to get a connection. Which .38 special (+P) open up the most reliable from a 3''-ish barreled revolver?
Idk if it's just me but I'd also watch some non shooting tests where you're at the bench. Perhaps a Q&A twice a year?
I really don't know what the lead harness is.
With most users the weak point of the system is the user, not the gun, and revolver is far less conducive to user induced failures than a semi-auto. Then you get a rare ammo failure in which case in a semi auto you need two hands and a procedure, with a revolver you just pull the trigger again.
Thank you. This is a good presentation of the lack of real-world differences in bullet types.
Excellent video and excellent points regarding the jacketing.
Actually, a 4" barrel is 20% shorter than a 5", which is significant. Thus, I'm guessing the 4" .38 Special would be significantly closer in ballistics, were it compared to a 4" 9 mm.
Correct. You have to compare equal barrel length to get a fair comparison.
Px4 storm full size 9 mm . Always carried revolver untill I bought the Beretta.
Great video, presentation, and testing Sam. Excellent shooting of these two classic rounds. Always be a multi caliber shooter. ♠️☯️🎩
Thank you.
@@GunSam Yw Sam.♠️
Good show! Saw another one of yours today comparing a revolver against a semi auto . You made an excellent case for the 32 Long.
I am a big fan of 32acp and 32long. Semiwadcutter 32s are always better than rimfire options for low recoil defense after all. Everybody overlooks the old 32s, but they are super accurate and just great overall. I really hope that 30 super carry gets popular. It's basically an automatic version of 327 federal mag. Kinda like how 357 sig is an auto version of 357 mag. I'm hoping you do some tests on it when it becomes more available.
My Beretta 81 is the nighttime carry in the warzone I live in, fits nicely in a flannel pocket. Because it shoots like my CZ75b and that thing is open carry only. Hiking gun, though, is a Smith M66. Stainless, and just works.
Several sources have published contradicting information regarding .357 SIG headspacing. This is due to the cartridge having been originally designed as a .357 (9.02mm) round, but then rapidly adapted to the .355 (9mm) bullet.
i like the capacity and mag change thing on 9mm but honestly either gun is good at what it does i just prefer to carry a striker fired 9mm more often but no issue with either gun
I totally agree. Plus if there is multiple attackers you're going to want the extra rounds.
@@SoWavvyy it's just kinda a cheaper more practical route for the average person
Love,my,taurus 856. And my,kahr cm 9. Both,close,to same,round count,
@@jeffpaul8260 Glock 19 Gen 5, 15+1 round capacity.
@@SoWavvyy I know I have one. To,big,and,bulky to,carry. I,also,have a Beretta a cz and glock,g30 s. All nice. But size is,an issue for hot,steamy florida,weather. Its cut offs and,muscle,shirt 350 days of the,year for,me
I switched to the Federal 38 SPCL +P (looks like the projectile was loaded backwards) in my Ruger SP101 snubby revolver about 2 years ago. I carry speedloaders with more 38s and a few with 357 mags. That new Federal load is wicked on a target.
Truly appreciate all your vids! Only thing I will point out though is when doing the direct head to head comparisons, I'd think it is pretty important to test +P vs +P and standard vs standard. I know ammo selection is pretty limited but personally I'd rather wait an extra few months when the loads are more of a direct comparison.
I have semi Autos and Revolvers ....My RIA M200 my house gun....not chancing that one time stovepipe jam....with Hornady Critical defense Ammo 110gr.JHP non +P rounds in the Chambers I feel well defended and sleep well at Night!😀
I picked up an M-200 a few months back. I got it on special for under $200 new. It did have one chamber way out of time. But RIA quickly sent me a pre-paid shipping label. They paid for all shipping charges and the repair. I got it back in 3 weeks. It came back working great. And the action feels like a custom action job. I'm very happy with the gun and their customer service. It's sitting right by my bed. At this moment, it's loaded up with American Eagle 158gr LRN.
@@shadowwolf2524 Their Customer service is second to none in the gun industry! 😃❤❤
@@leonardpiskacsr.7111 I was impressed. They emailed a prepaid shipping label within 2 hours after I contacted them. They paid all cost. And the gun came back in 3: week's- in perfect shape. And I can't believe the action ! This was my 1st interaction with their customer service. They stand by their guns. I'd like to get one of their 1911"s next.
The most overlooked advantage of the .38 Special vs the 9mm:
Wadcutters
Ouch. Those things are very ouch. In anything.
Nice comparisons; thanks!
Great video presentation 👍🏻
Kinda off topic, but I'd like to see a comparison between 22 mag and 32 sw long in short barrels.
The .32 S&W long is much better.
Sam- I know this has nothing to do with your today's video, but do you know of a FMJ brand for 327 or 32 H&R? Otherwise, great content!!
No, but I shot some 85 gr soft point .327 into gel today. Did well.
Who makes them?
@@TheCharlesAtoz Federal American Eagle.
Something that those that do not hand load cartridges may not know is bullet hardness for cast, plated & powder coated bullets.
The hardness is measured in BHN. Higher number means harder lead.
In practice a 38 special will have a BHN of 12. This value relates to the pressure of the cartridge. Boolits actually expand in the barrel.
A 9mm will typically have a BHN of 18. It is much higher in pressure. Softer lead created leading in 9mm barrels.
This is why we can see a slower moving 38 expand. There is a concept in ballistic performance called minimum expansion threshold. These numbers are very much dependent on the hardness of the projectile.
Great demonstration !
czcams.com/video/14Ms21yoxJY/video.html
If a private citizen is carrying a handgun every day, the “overlooked advantage” of the .38 revolver is the ability to unload and reload - several times every day - without needing to drop the slide onto a live round. There are way too many “no guns allowed” signs out there in the real world. Many law abiding citizens with CCW licenses will respect the signs, unload their hand gun, and lock up the empty gun and ammo in separate boxes. (Yes, it’s a pain in the butt; however some of us do not want to be shot with our own gun when a felon with a hammer finds our car.). On return to the vehicle, some of us would rather close a loaded cylinder rather than slamming a semi-auto slide forward while pointing the weapon at the floor of our own car. Revolvers rule in the real world….
That excellent comment Moves you to the front of the line. Well said, Jane.
I mean, me personally I leave my revolver loaded when I go in gun free zones, hide it in the car. But I suppose that can go along with what you said, as even if you are "careless" with a loaded revolver while tucking it away, there's a lot less chance of a negligent discharge.
@@GunSam we are experiencing a rash of juveniles stealing cars in my town. Repeated break ins, arrests, and the juvenile justice system puts them right back on the street to do it all over again. I don’t go into the “no guns” stores unless there is absolutely no other option. But if I must, I unload and double lock because I don’t carry enough liability insurance to defend myself against a broken hearted parent whose 15 year old professional car jacking son gets killed after firing my gun at the local swat team.
@@pecosjane I understand what you are saying, when leaving a store in the city I am halfway expecting my truck to be gone. I compromised by getting a small pistol sized safe box (Harbor Freight $20.00 +) so if/when my truck disappears I'll know that the little varmints will need to work at cutting the cable and stealing my revolver stashed under the seat.
Hm, I've shot many, many, _many_ autoloaders in my time, and I've never witnessed or even heard a provable story of a pistol slam-firing once it went into battery. If any person this did happen to was touching the trigger when they dropped the slide, then it's not a mechanical failure of the weapon; it's a failure of the grey stuff between that person's ears.
On the odd occasion where I do have to leave my piece in the car, they sell lockboxes that fasten under the seat with a metal cable, so I just put the whole setup in there; if a thief can remove that, he could remove two boxes just as easily.
And, frankly, if there's no metal detector or guards posted with an authorization to search me, I just ignore those signs entirely. I don't respect even the most polite of requests to render myself defenseless in public.
I hate the metric system and love revolvers so I prefer the .38 special. Love the .32 and .327 also.
well done sir.. appreciated that
Thanks GS. Great job. Good info. Liked & subscribed.
Awesome video sir!
Man, how times have changed. My first gun my dad bought me was a Marlin .22lr rifle Super Jammer (it always jammed) in the 70s. When I was in the Army I bought my own first handguns. A snub nosed .38spl, and a Ruger .357 Security Six...lost them to the pawnshop decades ago.
I got a Sig P365XL last year after being given my Grandmother's S&W 38 Special about ten years ago. I think it's from the late 60s/early 70s. It's a 5 shot with an etched wood handle. Very cool looking gun and it shoots great. My Sig is nice because of the expanded ammo capacity but the 38 is certainly capable.
Great video, Gun Sam!
Thank you.
Very nice! Love the channel
Good comparison. Thank You.
I love my Ruger LCP hammerless in my right pocket and my G-42 or my G48 in my belly band or shoulder rig for shots over 7 yards. I started carrying a Charter Arms snubbie w/a bobbed hammer about 40 years ago and that thing is still taken out ever once in a while. She weighs 18 oz loaded compared to the 14 oz for the LCP and thats why the Charter Arms is kept on my nightstand.
That 4 oz. makes a big deal on their kick. It took me many range trips to get used to that LCP, but i'm glad I stuck w/it. I'll probly never get as you Gun Sam, but I love the trying. Keep up the good work!
Good job on this video 👍👍👍
I carry both everyday ! Air weight 642 with .38+P Sig V-Crown defense for pocket carry and my Glock 26 gen5 9mm IWB CCW with Same brand ammo . Love your videos Brother, keep up the great work educating folks!
I want to add the fact that videos like yours and a few others have over the years instilled the important and practical role of the revolver as a carry gun . I will always carry both as a second gun is always faster than a reload! ( unless your last name is Miculek ! 😝 ).
😁✌️🇺🇸
Thank you for making the video
Thanks man you confirmed what I thought for a long time about 38 verse nine mill it’s why I have a small snubnose 38 I think it’s smaller than even the smaller semiauto‘s and as you said definitely more reliable than the smaller or average low cost semi auto 9 mm
.38 special has a lot more to offer than many of the lesser experienced shooters recognize and likewise the revolver.