Story of the BLACK PRINCE’S RUBY. Famous royal gemstones. Famous fake ruby. The English Crown Jewels
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- čas přidán 29. 12. 2022
- The BLACK PRINCE’S RUBY is one of the most famous royal gemstones in the English Crown Jewels collection. It also has one of the most fascinating stories. Supposedly given to Edward of Woodstock (aka the Black Prince) who was the eldest son of Edward III and the father of Richard II, it is apparently from a mine in Badakhshan in Afghanistan and was reputedly a gift from King Pedro I of Castile. These stories cannot be proven though and its later provenance is also a little murky in places. Legend claims though that it was worn by Henry V at the Battle of Agincourt, perhaps by Richard III at the Battle of Bosworth and it is likely one of the few gems to both survive the destruction of the Crown Jewels in 1649 by Oliver Cromwell’s forces and come back into royal hands after the Restoration of the monarchy in 1660. Its documented history only really begins in the 1680s though. Interestingly, the stone is actually a fake ruby as it is in reality a spinel. It is now set into the 1937 Imperial State Crown and has perhaps adorned the heads of more monarchs than any other stone in English history. It has sat on their coffins too, including most recently the coffin of Queen Elizabeth II.
In this royal jewels documentary from History Calling, we look at the history of this stone and at the purpose of crown jewels more broadly. We’ll also think about what crown will be used at the coronation of Charles III (or rather what crowns, as it is expected that at least two will be used for the King that day) and what role the stone will therefore have in that event. I’ll explain too why the Black Prince’s Ruby has a noticeable hole at the top (plugged with an actual ruby) and tell you about its current home in the Tower of London jewel house.
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When do you think the stone landed in the English crown jewels collection? You can also find me on Patreon at www.patreon.com/historycalling and on my Amazon storefront at www.amazon.com/shop/historycalling
Happy new year to you also. And thanks you for all your work
Thanks Scott :-)
Happy new year to you, too! Looking forward to see more of your amazing content in the 2023 :)
I think the safest assumption would be that it has been in the English crowns possession as early as we have a detailed description and/or pictorial evidence.
Happy New Year History Calling! Thank you for your offerings and for your part in making learning so enjoyable 🔎📚💖
Thanks @The Dork See you in January :-)
I’d love to hear more about the history of different gemstones that royalty has used and called different names and then later what we find out they are
You should check out my video on the Cullinan diamond too :-)
Another jewel episode, I like these. :) You've been such a bright jewel for your fans here HC, we love the work you do & the effort you put forth in creating these videos for us. Happy New Year to you my friend. :)
Thanks Sean. Have a wonderful new year too :-)
I think it is definitely a 17th century addition. The Restoration of Charles II, meant a new set of Crown Jewels needed to be made. The lack of money after the Commonwealth, would mean that they would need to use gemstones already in their possession or donated by supporters. The odd shape and the hole, seems to indicate the repurposing of the gem from its previous life as a pendant, this could mean that it was a piece already in Royal hands during the interregnum. There is also the possibility that it was a piece with sentimental value to whichever Monarch had it mounted in the crown, the meaning behind its use lost to history.
Imagine having something this size on a pendant. It would certainly be eye-catching that's for sure :-)
Love the Crown Jewels episodes! Crazy to think of all the events these stones have seen.
Thank you. Yes, they sure have sat on a lot of heads.
Personally, I like the Black Prince’s Ruby. I think it’s cool to have a stone that’s more in its natural shape rather than being faceted and it also has a lovely deep red colour. Honestly, though, I have no theory on its origin. With no clear records, it could have come from almost anywhere, it’s just impossible to say.
Happy New Year to you. I’ll look forward to whatever videos you have for us next year. ☺️
Thanks Kate. See you in 2023 :-)
Love the historian warning. There are so many hacks out there that don't do any research themselves. ❤️ your videos.
Sadly that's very true and a lot of people just don't realise the difference when they hear pseudo history. :-(
I honestly don't know where it came from but I love the Black Prince's Ruby. I go and stare at it when I go to the Tower (I have a membership) and it's just so beautiful. The shape is so unique. I did know it was a Spinel but I didn't know that the accepted story has no basis in fact. It'd be great if we could discover its provenance and how old it is.
I love it too and always have a good gawk when I'm there :-)
It came from a mine in Afghanistan and was given to The Black Prince, Prince Edward of Woodstock in 1367.
Of course we do still have the Black Princes’ surcoat as part of his arms still in Cantuarbury. In some respects that is more exciting.
Yes, his tomb there is super impressive. I'd love to get back there some day.
Thanks HC, this is an awesome stone, which is why it is right in the front of the State Imperial crown. It has a terrific colour and a real presence when you look at it. Spinels are supposed to be really hard, so drilling a hole in it would have taken some doing, especially without modern electrical drills. Its' size alone makes it really something special and the fact that it hasn't been cut makes it much more intetesting. I think our Spanish friends could try doing some research on this stone and Pedro the cruel. It would be great if someone could access Spanish royal gemology for us. Great video and great research HC. Have a very happy new year. 👑
Thanks Elisabeth. Yes, the drilling (without breaking the stone apart) is quite impressive. Happy New Year to you too :-)
Another well-researched and interesting video. As I've said previously, perhaps one day someone will stumble across some old papers held in some obscure (perhaps European) Archives somewhere which will shed some well-documented light on the history of the Black Prince's ruby, or re-examine some already known holdings which will reveal exactly how the ruby made its way through history. Well done again 👏
Thank you. I hope it's me that finds the long-lost papers! :-)
One never knows if "its well researched" unless one has also researched the same subject, example She said William the IV reigned from 1821 unto 1837 (see minute 16:10) but actually He reigned from 1830 unto 1837. What other things are wrong, who can know ?
I would be highly doubtful of stating anything from the medieval crown jewels are in the current collection beyond that one golden spoon. Like, there seems to be detailed records of where all the jewels and metal of the collection went as well as the value estimated for it. Also, as you continuously point out, this ruby (or spinel) is pretty distinctive looking so I think if it was in the collection earlier than the Restoration it probably would have been remarked on.
Have a very happy New Year!
Yes, sadly I don't think it's as old as our early-modern ancestors would have had us believe. It's a great story though. Happy New Year to you too Naomi. See you in 2023. :-)
That's a really good point, Naomi Skilling!
I think James II brought it into the Crown Jewels but given its shape and unfaceted appearance, I’m sure it is indeed a medieval worked stone but how James II got it will be a mystery.
Maybe, yes. It's a shame we'll never know for sure.
The issue I have about paintings is that there is no guarantee that all the gemstones portrayed in the Tudor portraits were actually all perfectly matching/indistinguishable from one another. They could all have been different, and obviously so, and the painters just used artistic license and "neatened" them up. The fact that such an uneven and imperfect gem is on the crown today (when they could afford something "prettier") indicates that they would not have been fussy about symmetry etc in actual usage, but the paintings could be rather "off" in thier portrayal of the actual jewelry.
We seem to be finishing off the year with a special sparkle!
Thank you :-)
Another great story about a historical item!! It's not that I don't like stories about historic people, because I definitely do! But there is something about objects that fascinates me. And they've usually seen a lot; the older they are, and more sordid their history, the more they've seen - I wish they could talk! Happy New Year to you and yours - can't wait to see what you bring us in 2023! ❤
Thanks Connie. Yes, I love material history as well, maybe because it connects so many people across time? Happy New Year to you too and I'll see you in 2023 :-)
Thank you for another wonderful jewel story! Your careful review of sources makes it clear that nothing is clear about the provenance of this gorgeous stone (except that it's not a ruby!). We'll just have to start referring to it as King James' Spinel, won't we (how likely is that)? Which leads me to a very tangential question my husband shared with me: since the Prince of Wales is descended on his mother's side from Stewart royal family, might his eventual accession be regarded by some as a return of the Stewart Dynasty? I hear there are some romantic traditions about various gates and things being closed until the Stewarts return to the throne.
Excellent question. Yes, we could look at it as a return of the Stewarts if we like (when William eventually gets to the throne of course).
I was completely baffled by this for about a minute until I realised that “The Prince of Wales” was referring to William and not Charles. I’m still not used to the changeover.
Another interesting crown which must have quite a history is Blanche of Lancaster’s crown now held in Munich.
Definitely :-)
I shouldn't comment on British history because there is a lot I do not know. However, some thoughts come to mind.
Henry VIII and his queens were portrayed wearing elaborate ruby (or spinel) and pearl jewellery. As noted in this video, none of those red stones looks like the Black Prince's Ruby. It seems if the gem was available and known at the time, Henry VIII or better yet, his dad Henry VII, would have capitalized on the information. The Tudor claim to the throne was a bit weak.
That said, the Kings George were Hanoverian Germans and what better way to strengthen their ties to England than to possess and display the Black Prince's gem?
It is interesting that the stone was kept in its natural state and that there was no attempt to cut it. Spinel can be faceted but perhaps it was thought the results would not be good?
It would be interesting if the history of the existing stone could be traced further back. Modern scientific methods might be able to learn how a hole was drilled, how and when a ruby plugged the hole, etc. But I am sure King Charles would never agree to such scientific exploration. Considering the political stability of the last several hundred years, I think this stone will continue through the rest of history as the Black Prince's Ruby.
One other thought... A hole was bored through the stone theoretically so it could be worn on...what? A chain? Science again might be able to answer that. Anyway, what is the history of boring holes into large gems so they could be used this way? That does sound more like something that would have been done far back in history.
Yes, I imagine it on a chain at some point, or perhaps strung as a kind of brooch. I doubt it will ever undergo any type of invasive scientific treatments either. The risk of damaging it would be too great I imagine.
@@HistoryCalling Scientific tests could be done with noninvasive imaging. However it is probably just as well the stone stays where it is, cloaked in mystery.
Hi HC, thanks for another well researched and presented video. It’s great how determined you are to use established facts through primary sources.
Love anything Black Prince related. I live near Cheylesmore Manor in Coventry which was once owned by Prince Edward. Many of the roads nearby are named after characters and events of their time.
The Manor is now the Registry Office.
Finally, wish you a Happy New Year.
Thanks James and have a wonderful New Year too. :-)
Also, in answer to your question I’d like to think it’s the same “ruby” passed down through the ages from the 14th century, however unlikely.
There may have been some artistic licence taken in the sketches of the crowns and the “ruby” in situ. That’s why the shape of the jewel appeared different.
I like to think that too actually. It certainly makes for a more entertaining story :-)
I’d be interested to hear what a gemologist had to say about the stone, does it’s shape and the fact that it’s uncut say anything about it’s age? Is anything know about where it was discovered?
The things people would do for a shiny rock. It's a pretty rock, but it still came out of the ground.
I know. People can be crazy sometimes.🙄
Food, gold, and many other amazing and useful and important things come out of the ground.
Wow. What an incredible story of this gem! I absolutely love how you bring the past to life, with your detailed and well researched material. Thank you for highlighting where we should go to get credible and well-documented information. I learn so much from you, thank you for your hard work putting this video together 🩷🇬🇧
Everywhere on the internet it says the hole was drilled to be hung as a pendant, but I swear I read in the tower of london it was for feather ornamentation, like the crown jewels of Persia still have this
This is an intriguing chapter. You are the Sherlock Holmes of history! The photos are eye candy. Captivating! Thanks for all you do.
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!
Thanks David. Any comparison to Sherlock is a great compliment. Happy New Year to you too. :-)
Thank you for such entertaining and informative channel. I look forward to each new episode and I have never been disappointed. I look forward to watching you in 2023. Happy New Year!
THANK YOU SO MUCH for your kind donation to the channel. Happy New Year to you too and I look forward to having you back in 2023 as well.
Thank you for the video. Knew nothing about the ruby, so, great info. Always well done and interesting. Thank you HC. Happy New Year!
Thanks Amy. Happy New Year to you too. See you in 2023. :-)
HC, always a delight to hear your voice and having you add to my knowledge of history.
For your American fans "nick" means steal, and over here across the pond "poor" "pour" and pore" are homonyms. LOL
Thanks Tony. I'm gonna mess with your mind a little bit though by saying that here in Northern Ireland, while we do say pour and pore the same way, we pronounce poor differently from England so that rhymes with Thomas More's surname. I'm not sure I've explained that very well actually, so you might just have to listen out for an example of me saying it at some point. Anyways, thank you for watching and commenting and have a very happy and peaceful new year :-)
@HC, Thank you for another great episode. Hope you're have a very Happy and Safe New Year's weekend .
Thanks Holly. You too :-)
*Happy New Year History Lovers 2023* 🎉
Thank you for a wonderful year of uploads.
Peace🕊
Thanks Nancy and Happy New Year to you and yours too.
@@HistoryCalling
Thanks 🤗
I’ve learned more about the Crown Jewels from you. I’ve seen this red stone on Queen Elizabeth’s the second thinking it was a ruby. I’ll pay close attention to it on King Charles coronation. I tend to admire the jewels without thinking they have a history of there own. I will pay close attention to it on King Charles coronation. I look forward to more lessons on Crown Jewel and other jewels I most likely never heard. I know a bit more about ancient Egyptian jewels.
Thank you for this video. Have a Happy New Year! 🎆
Thanks Leticia and Happy New Year to you too. :-)
you are spoiling me with all these gem videos, i love it! this one is particularly beautiful to me, and what a history 😻 happy new year HC! looking forward to learning more with you this year 🙌🏻 📚
Thank you and Happy New Year to you and yours too. :-)
As always, such an excellent video. I love how you present all sides.
Thank you very much :-)
Thanks for the great videos last year and best wishes for 2023!
THANK YOU MISSEPCOT for such a kind New Year's gift. I'm glad you enjoyed 2022's videos and hope you love 2023 even more. :-)
👏👏A sublime closing chapter to 2022, HC. Like you, I'm dealing with gastric issues as I write this. Try to stay hydrated (even though it's no doubt challenging) and slow down (equally challenging for you). Onward! Happy New Year. Thank you for all your efforts in keeping history alive. See ya next year! 🙏🏼
Thanks Stephen. Yeah, being sick is a rubbish way to end the year. Let's hope we both get better very fast. See you in January :-)
Great job with another fantastic video. My Yorkie dog is grounded for stealing food off of my plate. He's having A fit.
Thank you. I can't talk about food right now though. I have a vomiting bug :-(
@@HistoryCalling Hope you're better soon
Thanks. Me too. I've now been ill since Christmas Day :-(
@@HistoryCalling Get well, my Yorkie dog would go crazy if something happens to you.
@@HistoryCallingoooh hope you get better :( I had a digestive stop a couple days ago (hadn’t had one for 8 years) and boy I had forgotten how awful it was! Get well!
Thanks! Happy New Year! I found you last spring and love your videos
THANK YOU so much for your very kind donation to the channel. I'm delighted you discovered me and hope to see you back in 2023. :-)
Happy New Year to all of you from Uruguay! It´s too hot here, 34° C. So interesting the Prince's Ruby, but no idea where could it be.
Oh my word, it's about 5 degrees here! I'm jealous. Happy New Year though :-)
Thank you for all your research, and for presenting this so well.
My pleasure :-)
Ok, I have been watching your videos for a while because I am a sucker for history... royal history more specifically. In college our professors always told us never to cite Wikipedia for the exact reasons that you stated at 4:00. The way that you spoke the truth about other "history" youtubers and their regurgitated telling made me smile and also made me finally hit that subscribe button. Thank you for doing proper research on your videos. I think we all appreciate it.
The history of this stone is very murky at best, I'd would say 17th century is more likely when it first appeared, I wish you a Happy New year HC
Yeah, it's fishy that there aren't any solid records of it before that. It's a good story though. Happy New Year to you too :-)
Hi, Awesome live history video I enjoyed it can't wait to see more soon. Your videos are always enjoyable and relaxing. Happy new year to you and your family. See you next video, greetings from Canada 😀
Thanks Michelle. Happy New Year to you and yours too. See you in 2023.
Most stories have a bit of truth ... that is what makes history so interesting . I was fascinated by the Black Prince as a kid . I was impressed with his accomplishments but in truth I knew ( and still know ) little of his personality. He seems to me in my older age as highly romanticized. I find it interesting that he like many famous people are known by names that they never called themselves .
I think it also ironic that the adventurers of the past often laughed up their sleeves when they acquired property from the primitive inhabitants for a few "babbles" when they in turn would go crazy for a few stones and minerals they thought were of greater wealth. ...lol .. reminds of Gollum and his ring.
You have made the best case I've heard for the history of the stone. ( checking original sources ) The further one goes back in history the harder it is to be sure of the identify of jewels . ... lol... but as we have seen , one can do some fancy guessing.
Yeah, from the little I know of him I'm not sure that he was a particularly pleasant guy. How different history might have been though, if he'd only lived longer.
Hello again from your follower in Australia. I just wanted to congratulate you on a job very well done on this particular stone because even with very basic knowledge about this special stone you still managed to put together a very informative video. Thank you also for making all of your video's very easy to follow and understand. With Kind Regards Amanda T. 🎉
Thank you for another interesting presentation HC. Illuminating if a little disappointing like so many great stories which turn out to be historic myth. Not even a real Ruby, bummer!
Yeah, it's a shame its origins aren't clearer, but it's still a good (if shorter than often thought) story and a pretty stone.
Another history channel similar to this one mentioned Henry V drilling a hole in a jewel to push ostrich feathers into it in the Battle of Agincourt and that it is now in the Imperial State Crown patched up with another ruby and showed the Black Prince’s Ruby.
Hmm, I'd like to know what their source was for that. Given that there's nothing but legend to suggest it was even owned by the English royals that early, that sounds like an invented detail I'm afraid.
You have once again made a video about something in history that I an specially interested in. Poor Black Prince to end up with his bones mixed up with others.
Awesome vid ❤
Thank you and happy new year :-)
Pedro gave the jewel to Joan, Edwards wife for safe keeping upon Edward and Pedro leaving to fight Pedro's battle with Henry Trastamara. The stone was viewed by Edward and Joan with disgust and sadness as Pedro's promise of land and money to compensate Edward for the use of his army never materialized. The stone represented the beginning of Edward's downfall. Bankruptcy and long illness directly attributed to the campaign. This folly was partially responsible for the loss of Aquitaine and a blight on Edward's legacy.
Do you only do British Crown Jewels? I’d love to hear about the French Crown Jewels and even the Holy Roman Empire
I did the Hope Diamond too, which was in the French crown jewels at one point, but people don't actually seem super interested in the jewels (with the exception of the Hope).
Thank you for this very absorbing story! I'm curious: Is the jewel itself valuable as a gemstone; or is its value mostly derived from the narrative? It's such an odd-looking stone, I would have thought its prominence MUST be due to its provenance.
Its value is mainly due to its history I believe. I think an actual ruby would (in the normal course of things) be worth a lot more.
@@HistoryCalling no spinels are rarer and more valuable they have different colors they can be colorless like diamonds deep blue like a sapphire or blood red like a ruby
@@HistoryCalling they are about the same price average spinal 2,000 to 5,000 a carat so if the stone is 170 carats it's worth between half million to 1 million dollars not counting it's history so the sky is the limit for its value
The photo of George VI wearing the imperial state crown at the opening of parliament in Ottawa surprised me - I thought the crown jewels were not allowed to leave the UK.
Good evening to history calling and happy New year
HI Bea. Happy New Year :-)
Not to be pedantic, but I thought William IV was on the throne from 1830 - 1837 and not 1821 - 1837? Is this correct, or am I mistaken?
Oh poo, you're right. Sorry about that. Sometimes silly things like that slip through the net in the race to get the video done in a week.
I'd like to learn more about the people who should have inherited the throne but did not...
Sadly most of them ended up dead 😲 You could try my video on the Princes in the Tower if you haven't seen it yet, for one example (though Edward V did inherit the throne, just not for very long).
The stone's shape would be consistent with gemstones from the Mugal Empire. What strikes me is that it has not been recut to sparkle in the 14th century ... for stone to not be recut, it would have to be a stone with considerable history ...maybe.
Maybe, yes. Perhaps some of its reputed history is true.
I love the story of the mid evil , It has a certain romance about it.
Thank you!!
You're welcome. Happy New Year :-)
Hi history calling don’t know if you know much about Mythological creatures or supernatural creatures but I was going to ask would ever make a video on Sirens,Vampires,Werewolf,Witches, Fairies,Mermaids etc could this be a possibility you could make a video on them
I'm afraid my knowledge is mostly limited to Harry Potter :-)
An ancient Moorish lapidary text refers to a red gemstone known as "bezebekhaury". It supposedly had magical properties. It was supposed to "clarify" or "purify" wine and water when those fluids were poured over it in a vessel. Perhaps it was what we know as a spinel, in reality. The text is familiar with rubies and elaborates on the magical properties of those red stones, apart from the mythical bezebekhaury. ( The text I read was in a 1903 edition of The Connoisseur magazine, for reference.)
If only all these stones really did have the magical properties ascribed to them. It would make life much easier sometimes.
@@HistoryCalling Wouldn't it, though. Thanks for making this wonderful video. I shall peruse your other works, bit by bit. Cheers.
Arab*
Great and interesting story personally I feel it came in the17th century. As you as you said without real proof and how things were handled and mishandled before that. I'm guessing it would have been lost to history. Happy New Year to you too.
Yes, I'm very suspicious of it before the 17th century too. Happy New Year to you as well. See you in 2023. 🍾
Also, unrelated question of the week: where do you stand in the whole “Great matter” and Katherine of Aragon vs Anne Boleyn thing?
In a nutshell, I think the Boleyn marriage was legal in England until Henry decided it wasn't and that Henry and Katherine's marriage was valid.
Thanks.
Thanks!
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR DONATING TO THE CHANNEL. I hope you found the story of the 'ruby' interesting :-)
I swear the more I watch these jewel videos the less interested I am in actual gems 😂 they're still pretty, but it just seems the bigger the stone the more tragic backstory it has. The idea of passing something down through the generations is nice- but the more £$£$ it is the more it brings out the avarice in everyone around it
Very true. If you own a big swanky gemstone, you gotta be prepared for some drama to come with it.
It has shape of human heart
I know. It's quite nice I think :-)
I automatically doubt anything that was supposed to be in the collection before the civil war, plus anything that has a meaning greater than its physical presence is likely to have a dodgy history. The one thing in my mind that would date it as older is the fact that it's polished but not faceted. Too bad old stuff doesn't come with bar codes! ...If only they'd been invented sooner 😅
I know, right? Barcodes would have been really handy. Even good, detailed descriptions with drawings would have been a great start.
🧡
Amazing the number of famous 'rubies' were actually spinels. Well before cutting, most stones can be identified by crystal structure but that might have been a tumbled piece.
But you could have just said 'red stone'
Yes, I think people back in the day just thought anything red and sparkly was a ruby. It's still beautiful of course though.
If jewels could talk...
I wonder what outfit Elizabeth II was buried in and did she have any pearls on her? I think based on evidence that the stone likely traces back to the Stuart era.
Yes, I wouldn't feel comfortable dating it to earlier than that either. I've no idea about the Queen's funeral outfit I'm afraid.
@@HistoryCalling I read something about what the late Queen chose to be buried in. It was on the BBC website, I believe. She chose simple pearl earrings. I don't recall details about the dress, except that it was simple and elegant. Unlike some of those ancient queens that archeologists discover, she was too practical a person to have herself draped in gold and diamonds that would just get buried.
@@HistoryCalling what do you mean "I'm afraid?" The British Royal family kill me with their obsession of etiquette and petty formalities. Some people even in that country may have really wanted to know. I know I do and it's not even mentioned what she was dressed in.
I feel just about everyone in this etching is overwhelmingly smug!!
In the documentary of the coronation made about 2 years ago where they interviewed and discussed the crown with Her Majesty, She said the damage to that particular stone was done by Henry V at Harfluer in 1415. He had a hole drilled in it so he could secure a feather in it. I’m not saying that that is the case, I’m saying that is what the Queen believed was the explanation.
Did the Black Prince by any chance play a guitar? J/k again. Very enjoyable and soothing to hear your content
Haha, not that I know of but he was a multi-talented guy :-)
Would he have sung "Ruby Rain?" Hah hah!
@@annmoore6678 Good one
❤❤❤❤❤
12:58 the idea that this portrait shows a man of the mid to late 1300s is very unlikely to be true. His attire and hair all suggest early to mid 15th century. I do get that Mr Walpole didn’t have access to medieval illuminated manuscripts, but even the painting style is completely different from that of the day
It does seem a strange error.
Ok this stone creeps me out, it looks like a little bloody heart. 😂
Haha, I've never heard that reaction before but I understand what you mean :-)
I thought it was pronounced "spin- nell." It's a very expensive stone and rare in such a large size.
Despite its name, the Black Prince's Ruby is not a ruby, which is why it is known as “the great imposter”. The gemstone is actually a blood-red uncut spinel, which was named after the “Black Prince”, Edward of Woodstock, Prince of Wales.
It is indeed. All covered in the video, I promise :-)
She covered that. ❤
@@HistoryCalling Sorry dear historian. I am studying gemology and I could not resist!
Love the Lore.
I descend-from Edward's brother: Thomas of Woodstock.
Woodstock was a favorite House of the Plantagenet family, I guess.
@@miryamamar5442 good for you! My name is Patricia(I post on my hubby's acct)! I am a certified gemologist appraiser and I love to hear others are interested in gems! I was 27 when I was certified that was 26 years ago and I have never regretted it! Patricia Gambino Harrington
Wow! You had to be cruel to be called "The Cruel" in the Middle Ages as Pedro was.
1). I think there were the ceremonial crowns and a crown lite or "Diet" crown used for the military operations, a kind of token crown. A full ceremonial crown would be impractical and could be dangerous.
For instance Henry V definitely had a crown to fit over his battle-helm. This would have to be large to fit around the battle-helm and we know it had two fleurons stuck off in one of his battles "Agincourt". His battle-helm (a full face - visored helmet) still exists.
Please note accounts exist that customary "decoys" existed, two at Agincourt (?). Some brave people were dressed exactly as the king, so presume both had a crown.
Thomas, his brother, the Duke of Clarence was killed by the Scottish fighting for the French at Baugé. The Scots made great play of taking the ducal crown he was wearing and placing it on a spear.
A third brother John Duke of Bedford may well have wore a ducal crown, that is a ducal crown lite. If you insist on betting I suggest you consider using an each-way on this. There is strong evidence he wore his blue mantle of the Order of the Garter and a Garter of the Order over his leg armour in battle.
As for Richard III I think this too would have been a crown lite made to fit over his sallet-type helm.
Sir Lawrence Olivier for the film made great use of the Wallace Collection of armour to get it authentic.
2). Walpole's conclusion seems erroneous but he hadn't the technology. One of the contributors I feel is correct as the depiction looks later than the 1300's. I ain't no expert but stylistically it looks Tudor period.
The only thing seemingly right is the ostrich feather which was Edward the Black Prince's monika.
Edward III had kicked off the whole chivalry thing at Windsor Castle where he built an Athurian Chamber for the Knights of the Garter which be founded.
At the battle of Crecy (1346) young prince Edward, then 16, was getting the worst of it. When in true Arthurian style his father Edward III when made known of his son's predicament, said "Let him earn his spurs". How Arthurian is that!!!!! No reserves were sent to help him.
On the French side John, the blind King of Bohemia and chivalrous and courageous had himself chained to a knight on either side of him and galloped towards the English. His fame was well-known previously.
Accoutred all in black with three white ostrich feathers he must have made some sight and impressed the young Prince Edward. Sadly all three Bohemians succumbed.
As testimony to King John, Edward immediately took the three feathers as his Arthurian cypher and it has remained the cypher of the Princes' of Wales ever since. "Ich Dien".
I think the "ruby" is likely to have been around since Edward's time but not fully set in a crown until the fashion changed, maybe in the Stuart era.
That picture of Charles II with acres of red silk, velvet and silver screams ostentation, as good a contender as any.
Thank you for your trouble. 😁
They did indeed have super high standards for being considered cruel back then. Many thanks for such a detailed comment. Have a wonderful new year. :-)
Is it possible for you to trace the Duke of Sussex title? I am particularly interested in the history of the son of George 3rd. There isn't much out there.
The fact that it is a cabochon and not faceted indicates that it is an older stone. An article in Britannica states "The cutting known as faceting gradually developed from the first attempts in the 15th century, probably in France and the Netherlands." So that could possibly place the stone at least in the same time period as the Black Prince. However, there is no way of telling when or how it entered into the royal collection.
Yes, I agree it was definitely floating about before we have clear records of its existence. It's just a bit frustrating that as you say, we can't know if it was in the Royal Collection.
Is there any chance that it’s a jewel filched from Isabella, and not so well recorded because they did the dodgy with her dowry?
Nothing's impossible.
Happy New Year
THANK YOU so much Patricia for your generous donation to the channel and Happy New Year o you too :-)
Hmm. Medieval or 17th century? I favor medieval. It’s not/wasn’t a particularly pretty stone. As stones go. And was probably overlooked & easily re-acquired (back) to the crown jewel coffers. And out of necessity (Cromwell’s “yard sale”)…had to be pressed into service. Since so many other items were and are lost to history. But I’m romantic that way. And would like to think this overlooked & awkward stone is why it initially survived to present day….when so many other treasures were melted down or cut up.
It would be interesting if it could talk (though)…and give a true account of its origin and travels!
I suspect that it came into royal possession with James II. Who knows who came up with the story that it belonged to the Black Prince, but like a bad game of Telephone, I’m sure it got misheard, embellished and changed along the way.
What is it about this stone that makes it so valued that it is transferred to successive crowns?
Must say I’m a huge fan of the Black Prince, and of John of Gaunt. I felt a bit daft because I never actually realised Gaunt was another of the royal princes.
Wikipedia sources are a black hole for people that write without asking ‘Who/What/Where/Why?’
Yeah, Wikipedia's often good for a quick look, just to get you started, but only amateurs treat it seriously. I was always banging on at undergrads not to cite it in their essays.
@@HistoryCalling Yeah. My lecturers all did the same. I had one that said 'It's fine to get in the ground floor, but we're here to learn to be historian's, not argue on Facebook. Look at the sources. See if it's trustworthy.'
The famous or infamous Koh-I-Noor diamond must be worth a video - ? Will be interesting to see if it’s absent from Camilla’s crown on May 6th! Can’t wait for that!
You're in luck my friend. That was last week's video! :-)
I was wondering why is not a cut stone?
It was not drilled to hang from a pendant it was drilled so that a feather could be placed in it. Just fyi
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William the IV was on the Throne from 1830 until 1837 . . . get it right minute 16:10
Audio keeps cutting out .
Hope you pick up message. Looking to join your Fan club . Checked it out. top tiers you give list of Tudor books ? Any chance of a signed pic ? Bet not ! Have a great new year . Stay safe 😷😷😷😷
Hi Rob, no I don't provide lists of Tudor books (this is on my Patreon I assume?) I'd still love to have you over there though of course. Have a great 2023 as well.
There's many excellent books about the Tudors. I'd recommend the books of Dr David Starkey and Alison Weir. There's others too, but these authors have written books about the Tudors and the Tudor era.
Thank you. I will . Just read book by Sarah Morris and Clair Rigway. Bet history calling know these people!. Thank you
Ahh! Peter the cruel my multiple ancestor!
I'm sure you're a much nicer person though :-)
What happened to all the older crowns? Were they smelted down?
Broken up, melted down, and sold. Thank you, Oliver Cromwell.
I wish you'd make a video about the ethics of fictionalizing historical figures.
Not a bad idea :-)
There was a word used repeatedly that I didn't quite ken. I did some googling and this is the most likely candidate (I hope this helps others, apologies if it's not the actual word in question):
"Ballas or shot bort is a term used in the diamond industry to refer to shards of non-gem-grade and -quality diamonds. It comprises small diamond crystals that are concentrically arranged in rough spherical stones with a fibrous texture."
It really doesn't fit with the context of the video, but it's also a very close match. Maybe there's a second meaning to the word. It would be great if H.C. herself chimed in below :)
Hi Darragh, thanks for watching and commenting. The definition I found (from www.americangeosciences.org/word/balas-ruby) is:
'balas ruby (bal'-as). A pale rose-red or orange gem variety of spinel, found in Badakhshan (or Balascia) province in northern Afghanistan. See also: ruby spinel. Syn: ballas.'
I wonder if the word just has a different meaning in the diamond industry?
Anyways, Happy New Year :-)
@@HistoryCalling Thanks for clearing that up (and for citing the source; I don't think people that give references get the credit they deserve)!
Yeah, that fits perfectly. I obviously didn't dig deep enough. Shame on me, I considered a career in geology!
@@darraghchapman I used to visit the gem mines in North Carolina and Virginia and had a big collection of uncut garnets. I found one BLACK spinel that was too small to be cut into a gem. I gave them all to other amateur jewelry makers and gem-lovers when we moved from that area. Now we live in Oregon, where lovely agates wash up on the beaches in the winter time.
Please have whoever is editing your audio do a proper audio check. Your videos are WAY quieter than others. I have to turn my headphones up too high and then I forget and get blasted by other videos. Better to have viewers turn down your audio than max it out because we can barely hear you.