Beta Xtrainer suspension mods: budget to ultimate solutions︱Cross Training Enduro
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- čas přidán 27. 02. 2018
- What's wrong with the Beta Xtrainer's suspension? Nothing. It's made by Olle, a Spanish company with a long history in trials suspension. So the Xtrainer's suspension has a strong trials influence in terms of its spring weight, valving and light weight design. And of course it costs less, it's a large part of why the Xtrainer runs at around $1000 cheaper than the RR300. Not good of course, but not hopeless. And Ben Hemingway rode a stock Xtrainer to 8th place in Hells Gate, the Italian extreme enduro. But of course many of us are over the 80kg weight they design most dirt bikes for, and we want to occasionally ride faster. So let's look at some options. At low speed it's just as good, on big hits it's almost as good but I suspect the inch less of suspension travel might be the issue there. On our last ride the other two were riding RR300s and we all swapped over they agreed. Particularly my brother who has ridden the Xtrainer with the previous suspension mods and said "It's not trying to kill me anymore!" Apparently my setup is almost identical to the setup they did for Ben Grabham's Xtrainer when he came 8th in Australia'a hard enduro, Wildwood Rock. Drain the standard 5W fork oil and refill with 500ml of 15W fork oil. Wind the rebound in (this also increases the compression damping) and put some preload on the spring in the righthand leg. On the rear, play around with the damping but our FFRC suspension guru recommended not maxxing out the compression damping, as you could wind up damaging the piston on really big hits. Then see if you need to go for stiffer springs or not. A cheap fix which some riders find acceptable. Next is playing with the shims in the forks. Plenty of riders find this acceptable or at least better than heavier fork oil, but there's still the inevitable trade off with losing that plush feel as you beef things up to cope with faster riding. To experiment with this, our local suspension gurus, FFRC, did a basic revalve on my Xtrainer forks. Was it better? For faster riding yes but it lost that supple feel for slower riding. I was puzzled as normally FFC can work magic but they explained revalving won't overcome one critical issue - more on that later. There are other cartridge kits like the Andreani X-Trainer Fork cartridge Kit but at AUD$1000 or around US$800 I reckon that's getting bloody expensive. It brings the Xtrainer up to the same cost as a RR300 before you even look at the rear shock. So what about revalving the rear shock? To experiment with this, FFRC did a basic revalve on the shock. But of course many enduro riders love the light weight but want the bike to handle faster agressive riding too, so they start complaining about the suspension. It's a similar issue the KTM Freeride has faced over the years. Everyone loves a chart, here's one we cooked up earlier. If you aren't too heavy, the stock setup is great for slow technical riding and trials type tricks, and Trevor Campbell even gave the Xtrainer a belt around the motocross track and was surprised the stock suspenders weren't too bad. I noticed some improvement but not much. I'll explain why next. FFRC use their dyno to precisely when and where suspension isn't doing what the rider wants it to, and James their head suspension tuner quickly spotted that the relationship between compression and damping were very similar, as they normally are in trials suspension. Whereas an enduro setup has a lot more compression damping than rebound. And the dyno charts revealed that the existing suspension mods can only get around this to a certain extent. On the rear shock, they designed a custom piston to get the right balance. They modified the cartridge kit he was using to get the same setup and apparently Ben loved it, and didn't even adjust the compression damping that came with the kit. Is there an ultimate suspension setup for the Xtrainer? For me this would have to now be close. Sure you could adapt suspension from another bike or get aftermarket forks and shock, but it will cost a fortune and make the Xtrainer heavier. But as always don't take my word for it, do your own research and see what others say. And then modified the stock fork internals along with different shim stacks for the same reason. They explained what they were doing to the forks. Ready to spend some money? Beta have the BPS-K9 cartridge kit for $640. (US$385 but no spring included). I've read some reviews and quite a few riders like this solution.
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FFRC is in a state of flux. It changed hands, the new owner was an experienced suspension tuner so I left this video in place. However, he has left now and the FFRC website says they are temporarily closed (July 2022). If it reopens, I have no idea whether there will be an experienced tuner there or not. Google around to find if they are doing high quality work. I don't know if the Plex valves are still available for sale or not.
bummer
Wow Barry! That is some top notch evaluation and mod to the suspenders on that bike.... well done! It's a tough job to make suspension magic :)
Fantastic as always, Barry!
That was very in depth, Loved it!
brilliant video barry!
Great vid once again. Lotta info
I love my Beta Xtrainer, great bike!
Great review 👍
Barry! I think we saw your beautiful Italian princess on the way back home from Mt Mee yesterday. We were the two carrying the Yammie (sorry) and the BMW. Just wanted to say it was a pleasure seeing you in the flesh, however briefly, since you’ve more or less taught us everything we know at this early point in our dirt bike riding lives. Also, those Betas are even more gorgeous in person than on camera.
Keep up the great work, Michael and Vlasta.
i'll have a soft spot for the yammies, and really enjoyed the YZ250F down in tassie. that beemer got us talking a lot though, so many great design features but somehow they made the bike suck in so many other ways. like many models i suppose, they probably would have got it all sorted eventually if they kept going... :(
We found the following on me and my buddies Xtrainers: him - 170, no preload and 9 clicks out on the rebound. Me -225 6 clicks out on rebound and 4.5 turns of added preload. Calmed down the front ends quite a bit and mitigated excessive dive and weird deflection. Tracks much straighter in rock rubble. Cheap thing to try until you decide what to do.
And your rear shock setting?
Watching all that sweet trick riding, I'm not sure whether to be inspired or depressed..... but great vid again nonetheless!
Great video, Suspension is everything thats why i ride a Yamaha !!
they certainly knew what they were doing jumping on the KYB bandwagon
I like the chart Berry, bring on more of them
i salute you fellow geek... i love em :)
See you guys are riding at sanders-private property love the single tracks around there and chuckys tracks
Excelente como siempre mi amigo australiano 👍🏻
Saludos desde Argentina 🇦🇷
Gracias Martin, entiendo todas! I know so little Spanish I usually need to translate it but not this time lol.
@@crosstrainingenduro 😉 same for me
Gumby machine operator !! no eye protection. Excellent vid
funny you mention that james, i said "shouldn't you be wearing eye protection... at least for the vid?" :)
Thanks for the great video! I have the K9 kit in mine but am working with US tuners to get the valving modified like you depicted. A good tuner in the US is onto this and working to make kits available!
that's the funny thing though tim, it seems the stock internals can be modified in such a way they are better than the cartridge kits... except of course you might get the extra damping adjuster with a kit.
From what the guys told me about the K9 kit, its more or less the same damping as the stock setup, just adds compression adjustment to the bottom of the fork leg. I am excited to see people market modified fork internals as a kit that we can all bolt in at home.
yep they seemed puzzled by the cartridge kit seeming to be indentical to the stock ones, but just the adjuster added.
I've got the k9 kit, it works very well. What I've found is the bike handles a lot better with around 80mm race sag on the rear and 1 turn in preload on the forks from fully open. The bike feels very balanced front to rear, better than the standard Sachs suspension I had on my rr. Clickers around the middle of the range. The bike doesn't handle whoops or rough enduro courses that well, but my slowness has more to do with me than the bike. It is a blast for technical riding, you can't really have a bike that is equally good slow and fast.
nice tips there!
That suspension stuff is black magic hey!
pure evil, joe lol. when james gets talking about fluid dynamics my eyes just glaze over. very very complex stuff!
If you get a chance, test the new Lucky Kit. Besides maybe getting lucky, it sounds like a real solution for a reasonable price.
Thanks for posting! Your videos are always very informative and entertaining! Quick question for anyone out there that might know... to change the fork oil to a heavier weight, do you only have to take off the 46mm fork cap and drain the oil? Or, are there additional things you need to dig into further down in the fork? You only need to change the left side (dampening) correct? Not the right (spring) side?
I prefer the pogo stick suspension myself. Thanks for the info
exactly, i was happy with it for my first few months because all we do is slow technical stuff if we can. it only became a problem on the odd occasion we'd pick up the speed. so many guys i know shake their heads when they hear someone buys a xtrainer then rides it fast and expects it to handle like a RR300 lol!
Would be curious about getting those suspension mods priced out and if they are being sold
If I use goat’s fat oil in the suspention, will my bike be able to climb sloping mountains?
Would love to hear what y’all think of the 2023 xtrainer beta and how it differs in stock setup
Far as I know nothing's really changed on it, James... sounds mainly like cosmetic changes to me. Our old review should still be applicable.
Hey Barry will u be at the sanders property on Sunday for the first round of the local enduro race round??
i never you guys rode in the yarra valley wow
Great vid! I did some revalving I found on Facebook and I liked it better, but it feels kinda choppy now. FFRC is something to look into. The favorable exchange rate between U.S. and Australian dollar might make the shipping worth it.
interesting to see how much it would cost to send the stock cartridges over in those long cylinders used for maps etc.... might not cost too much.
The oil weights are not a good indication of viscosity, you should look at a viscosity chart. Silkolene 5W is twice the viscosity of castrol 5W suspension oil as a example.
Thanks Barry. Great review. Timely. I have spent the last 2 weeks trying to figure out what to do with my son's XTrainer suspension. He pushes it to the limit and rides it more like the RR.
I will see if my local Beta dealer has seen your video. Thanks.!
Did you sort your suspension for your son's aggressive riding or did he end up with an RR?
Well done Barry! Beta suspension evaluation on forums is as productive as "which oil should I use". Appreciate the insight and analysis on the X trainer suspension! Any thoughts on the stock Sachs? The boys at FFRC have any insights on the most recent Sachs offerings on the current Beta's? Thanks
i'd love to see a dyno chart of the 2017 betas compared to the KYB SSS suspension... FFRC tend to use that as the gold standard. back in 2015 they said the RR rear shock was excellent, and the forks were good but could still use improvement. they said the forks are really good for the average rider now from 2017 on but i haven't seen a dyno comparison.
CROSS TRAINING ENDURO SKILLS I know I'm very impressed with my 390rrs suspension package coming off of a fully worked over WP closed cartridge package on my KTM. The recent Sachs are excellent.
Very nice video, thanks! I have about 60h on my 17 Xtrainer and have been playing around with the original suspension clickers to try to find a setting that fits me, everything stock 68kg naked 5w oil.
It would be so very helpful to have dyno charts of the stock Xtrainer forks and the stock 300RR forks to see the difference of how they work. That would answer most questions about the stock suspension. For example, I suspect the exess diving i get when going downhill trials style is due to not enough slow compression damping. And the hard hits i get when hitting sharp edges are due too much fast compression damping. Both of those issues cant be solved by 15w oil, one would get better the other worse, only revalve could solve this (no facts, only my theory which could be way wrong). If I had those charts i could figure stuff like that out without testing everything. You dont happen to have charts like that for the forks do you, maybe even throw in a shart from your revalved and rebuilt setup, what a brilliant sequel video that would be :)
sorry henrik, this vid took so long to put together there won't be a sequel. plus the guys usually don't post charts as they said it takes a long time to make sense of it all.. even with his 13 years experience is suspension design it took james months to fully grasp what all those lines meant. :(
I complain about the soft suspension on my 17 TE300. But I’ve ridden single track on motocross bikes for 20 years.
could you make a review on the aprilia rxv
My local suspension guy told me to come in at 30 hours for my beta 390 to change out the factory oil. He says the oil that is used initially is not very good quality and once some non oem stuff is put in the suspension is much much better. We shall see...
FFRC is in a state of flux. It changed hands, the new owner was an experienced suspension tuner so I left this video in place. However, he has left now and the FFRC website says they are temporarily closed (July 2022). If it reopens, I have no idea whether there will be an experienced tuner there or not. Google around to find if they are doing high quality work. I don't know if the Plex valves are still available for sale or not.
IMPORTANT: BETA SAYS MAIN BEARING FAILURES IN 5% OF 2018 and 2019 two strokes
Many owners of RR300, RR250 and Xtrainer models were seizing their main bearings, some with five hours or less. I sent questions to Beta head office and the USA/UK distributors but they never answered. I made a video to warn owners about the warning signs. I sent the questions to Beta head office and distributors again, finally the USA distributor replied. They admitted a fault in the manufacturing process had resulted in 5% of Beta two strokes to seizing the main bearings. See our update video here: czcams.com/video/iaae9tZ31hs/video.html
BETA NOW GIVES A DIFFERENT REASON! Various mechanics I spoke with said Beta had incorrect tolerances which agreed with Beta's official response. But in a recent interview with Enduro 21 they are now blaming an outside supplier for a batch of faulty bearings that affected 2018 and 2019 models! Plus they say they were very proactive with support, when my impression was they were forced to act as the problem became increasingly public. Read their marketing manager's statement and see what you think:
Stefano Soldani: “We had a problem with the two-stroke 250 and 300 models, due to an error of one of our suppliers. It was not spread to all of the bikes produced last year but the ones that were assembled with the wrong batch that the supplier sent us were affected. We worked really close with our dealers and distributors and we gave complete support to the customers affected by it. We are not the kind of company that, when something is wrong, turns their face around. We know that the mechanics is not always perfect so it’s very important to give the correct service to the users. It’s under control.”
I weight about 160-165lbs (72-75 kg) do you think it would have many issues with the suspension being so mushy or is it just so soft you can’t really dodge it with rider weight
2020 300rr or 2020 xtrainer???? I cant decide is the rr worth the $$$ i ride middle of the road and like tight single track but also the occasional rip full throttle down a fire road... for me its 1500 more for 300rr or 1800 for 300rr race edition xtrainer is 7700 usa
A "new" fork option is the MX Tech Lucky cartridge insert for the fork. It's excellent. And I replaced my OEM Olle R16V shock with a Beta XT-R shock. Much better shock, and more adjustment.
Why Beta does not offer a version of the Xtrainer with a good suspension is beyond understanding.
You can order them with many different suspension setups
@@davew3084 Yes of course. The BYOB option on BetaUSA is there, but you will pay a lot of extra $$$$ for a better suspension up front, and Beta will not give you your take off parts, they keep them. No credit, they just keep them and dispose of them.
Is that fair?
If someone MUST own a Xtrainer because of height requirements, it makes more sense NOT to order a BYOB. Instead get a stock Xtrainer, and build your own, and sell the take off parts as best you can.
If someone can sit a full size 36+ inch seat height 300 motorcycle, it makes more sense to get a 300RR and nerf the power. You get a bike with better suspension out of the box and don't have to replace anything. Just tune it down if you don't want the extra HP and PV hit.
@@ow-my-achilles1106 after much debate between the Xtrainer and 300RR I went with the XTrainer. I sat on both at the dealer and even though I could get both feet on the ground on the 300RR I felt much more comfortable on the XTrainer. The 300 was just tippy toes and the X was much better. I also didn’t like how wide the 300RR felt after sitting on the X. We’ll see how the first rides go. Opinions on the suspension are all over the place so I rolled the dice. Maybe I’ll be spending money on suspension upgrades in the near future. One thing I absolutely didn’t want to do was but a bike and lower the suspension and lose ground clearance.
@@davew3084 how is the bike going? I am going to try one next saturday, my standard 300 is just too big and tall for me to ride confident in hard enduro
Will the 250 be available in Australia too? Would love to see a review , maybe would suit the beginner better? Usually i think that a smaller 2 stroke would rev more freely and be more scary.
i haven't seen one yet but there's a very good write up here... www.dirtbikeworld.net/forum/showthread.php?t=126321
CROSS TRAINING ENDURO SKILLS awesome! I took a look at the write up and sounds very promising for a super gumpy like me!
Perhaps do a handlebar position video as I'm pretty tall (6'5") and have the 2" rox risers on my ktm 300 xc. I cannot seem to find the right place for them. I've heard directly over the forks, moving them too far forward makes you lose control at high speeds, and everything else under the sun. I saw in on of your vlogs #290 or something you had your bars rolled a decent bit past the forks. What say your on this? Great channel by the way. I've learned a lot through you old gumbies
sorry only taking topic requests from supporters at this stage nathan... but pretty sure i discussed it in our bike setup vid. here's how to find various topics: czcams.com/video/DBTSq8OdWIc/video.html
Ahhhh I see now, I'll try that next time.
Actually tried to search it in the beginning, but couldn't find much on it, anyhow cheers
Do they have balance shaft?🇬🇧👍
What do you think about the Olle suspension for a 163cm 67 kg rider? I hear people talking about these mods but mostly for larger/heavier riders.
can't really answer that, so many variables involved. depends on your style of riding, type of terrain, speeds you'll be doing, your skill level and on and on. maybe get a ride on a xtrainer somehow and see what you think?
Does it have a kickstand and back up kickstarter? I love this bike and I will hopefully be getting one is a year or 2. Also what makes it lighter than the rr ? Smaller frame ?
see our original vid comparing the xtrainer and RR: czcams.com/video/DBTSq8OdWIc/video.html
The old trials sales rep at the Nevada Beta dealership said he threw the 300rr suspension on his XTrainer and thinks it's perfect.
yep that's what tim coleman did with the xtrainer he rode to 2nd place in our national extreme enduro. just missed on first place, would have nailed it with his RR300 probably.
Hey Barry - did you have to get any longer cables to put the rox risers on your Xtrainer?
no just some jigging around to prevent any stretching.
CROSS TRAINING ENDURO SKILLS ok thanks. 👍
If one is going to go the cheap rout first, and try the 15wt. oil. Do you use the 15wt. and springs off the Beta chart or a few rates higher? I way 240 #'s what do you suggest?
unfortunately i have no idea mike, it would all be influenced by your weight, riding style and type of terrain i suspect.
Probably a dumb question - but im sure many have asked this - when they say set up for an 80kg rider - is that with or without gear ?
good question... i've usually assumed without but who knows, every suspension tuner might be different.
Mike Burnett; I picked up a 2018 Xtrainer yesterday. I had the proper springs put in and a K9 Kit by the dealer before I picked up the bike. My question is this, the Tech that installed the K9 kit told me that the only way I could use the compression adjustment on the fork, "was to take the left fork apart, move the adjuster, then put it back together. This was because it was under high pressure and if turned without doing this, the brass adjuster would break off". Is this the way the K9 Kit was designed? This makes it a waist of $400! If it doesn't work like every other compression adjuster.
i made this vid quite a while ago mike, but i think that was one of the problems with the K9 kit. the suspension guys who did my xtrainer personally thought it was a waste of money.
I WISH I HAD ASK YOU THIS QUESION BEFORE I WAISTED $400. Thanks for the info, keep up the good work!
So it sounds like you have your stock internals modified, is that correct? I am looking for a similar upgrade. debating on fitting the 300rr suspension or a cartridge insert. Which cartridge would give the same results you got with the modified stock internals? I have a 2024 xtrainer. Also, would a 300rr suspension have same plush feel at slow speeds? Or is it more stiff for faster riding? I have never ridden a 300rr. Thanks for your time!
The local suspension shop revalved the forks and replaced the one spring with a stiffer spring. It was a big improvement.The only issue it was a bit too stiff on smaller bumps but we find this suspension shop always does this. They just don't seem to understand we need a 'plush' feel in the first part of the stroke for hard enduro style riding.
It might be worth looking into the DXF fork cartridges. Way cheaper than the Boano ones and hearing good feedback. One of our guys may be trying these in a month or two. If so we'll do a review. If it works well he'll try their rear shock upgrade, it's even cheaper.
www.dfxparts.com.au/products/beta-x-trainer-fork-upgrade-kit-250-300?variant=42625952940195
@@crosstrainingenduro thank you for the fast response! I will look into the dxf cartridges. What are your thoughts on the 300rr forks fitted onto the xtrainer? I may have access to some for cheap. But not sure if that is what I want to go for
Never ridden a Xtrainer with that setup so can't comment unfortunately.
So the setup you liked which that FFRC did, what was the actual cost of that?
I am in the UK, so I would need to reach out to them to get info to see if a company here can do it. but definitely seems to be an ideal bike and solution for me.
You'd have to check with them, this was a few years ago now and they've developed a new system for the forks. Depends if you want heavier springs too, of course.
Would a 65kilo rider get away with the suspension on the xtrainer🤔?? Looking for something smaller than a KTM
Probably. But a whole pile of variables so impossible to know for sure.
I just ordered Boano dual cartridge kit. It’s not worth it? Should I change my shock too? or just changing forks are fine? Someone please advise me. I weight 82kg
no one can advise you on that stuff mason... at least not without heaps of suspension experience and actually riding with you to see how it's working for you.
CROSS TRAINING ENDURO SKILLS That’s so true haha. I should research more about which set up is good for me
Let me know if I understand this right. It’s about $700 to have the mods on the suspension like you have? Or was I not following that right? I’m a lightweight rider, and the only thing I’d like to change is the front end dive under heavy braking. I will experiment first though. Try the heavier oil, then the oil and ktm shims. I do have a Xtrainer and a 300RR. I like the plushness at the beginning of the travel on the XT, but like the mid and bottom of the stroke on the RR better. It doesn’t blow through it as fast as the XT. Either way, I’m super happy with both bikes.👍🏻
i think that's what the figures in the vid should add up to, dan. it includes labour but doesn't include springs.
the dyno chart in the vid was only for the rear shock, on the forks they particularly left the initial 'bounce' of the stock setup for me, but it quickly ramps up to mimic the RR forks on bigger hits. i haven't even played with the damping yet because it feels just right for me. :)
CROSS TRAINING ENDURO SKILLS Thanks for the reply. I’ll have to do some playing around with the forks. Now, if I could the RR’s shocks to mimic a Xtrainers at the beginning of the stroke.🤔
I live in Europe, these "full mods" that FFRC made to the bike, can I find a way to do it here?
i am the wrong person to ask nuno, i put their website address at the end if you want to ask them
Thanks for the answer.
Planning on buying one Xtrainer, but I do some fast riding also, and some sand tracks, think I will need to prepare the forks.
Hi Nuno, I live in Europe as well. Did you find a solution for the forks with FFRC ? Thanks. Alberto
@@PEROTTIX, I actually didn`t get a Beta XTrainer, bought instead a Gasgas EC300, great bike, and for faster paces the suspension is incredible (stock)!!
But I have a friend with a Beta XTrainer (with still stock suspension but) in technical stuff, it is awesome. :)
Nuno Alcaide thanks Nuno. I heard good things about yr bike. It is a pity that KTM decided not to keep this model and 2021 models are pretty much KTM rebranded with link rear....I sent a msg to FFRC but no reply. We are too far away...it was just a try. I need to find a way to try a Xtrainer to understand how these suspensions are. I do not ride fast as I am anyway a beginner in enduro. Thanks!!
Just to compare, what was the cost of the complete rebuild from ffrc?
the info was in the vid, erik
I have watched the video several times and don’t see pricing for what you had done at ffrc
Having a hard time deciding between the xtrainer and the rr
300rr
@@mymotheris4sale yeah I ended up getting the 300rr
Hi Barry, do you know if FFRC are still in business? I’ve tried contacting them on 3 occasions, however I’ve had no reply?
Thanks in advance,
Jeff (Brisbane)
They shut down for quite a while, Jeff. They are open again but under completely new management who are learning the business from the ground up. The original suspension guru, James, set up his own shop a while back. You could get his contact details through the guys at Goldentyre Australia.
@@crosstrainingenduro Thanks Barry - Much appreciated.
Jeff
The X is not supposed to be a RR, its a crossover between a RR and a trial bike… fit springs for your weight, have fun and dont look back
Hear hear... I just laugh when everyone buys a Xtrainer then complains that it isn't a RR.
get the 300 rr
it should be a crime to pair that engine with those forks . trying to kill me indeed. deflection off everything .heart attack city.
The best mod for the XTrainer is the Craigslist mod! ;-)
hi everyone, buying a 300 X-TRAINER which is an inexpensive entry-level enduro bike and studying to be easy to drive and spending a lot of money after purchase doesn't make much sense.
Might as well buy a model that meets your expectations immediately, a lot of waste of time, money. You have to look for simplicity and efficiency. The 300 X-TRAINER cannot meet demanding pilots, made for hiking, pleasure without taking the lead.
and spend a fortune.
See you soon
if you are after an everyday enduro bike, sure. but plenty of us want them for slow technical riding and then it's worth dialling in the suspension to reap the benefits... lighter bike, tighter turning circle, tuned for grunt instead of top end, lower seat height, faster steering etc etc.
@@crosstrainingenduro is there a difference between a 2018 and 2019 model and which ones? thank you
I don't understand how anyone can find the x trainer suspension even close to acceptable. I rode my dad's and you felt every single little bump. It was ridiculous, and I only weight 150 lbs. He got the k9 kit and it is night and day difference, not as good as my ktm, but waaaay better than it was.
kdxkyle I own a 17 XT and quite frankly the forks are crap. Any little hit - pot hole, washboard, root, rock and it feels like someone took a sledgehammer to the bottom of the forks. I cringe whenever I’m about to hit a small bump. After a summer of riding my elbows were toast. Forget about long rides on a forest service road, unless it’s smooth as glass. Even slow single track is punishing
as per the start of the vid, depends on what you use it for. and possibly your riding experience... the three top riders all thought the suspension was good for its intended purpose and okay even when they hit the gas. mind you they are all only 80kg, what the bike is set up for.
No offense guys but checked both your vids and it looks as though you haven't been riding long. Might better off leaving suspension reviews to the big kids LOL.
da knobbmeister my crappy video was from 5 years ago.. you think someone can't get better in 5 years?
Lemme guess. I think what knobbmeister is saying you are both kids and probably all you want to do is go fast. So you are trying to make the Xtrainer do what it ain't meant to do. E.g. you may as well take a WR250R to a motocross track and say it sucks. So if incredibly talented riders like Ben Hemingway, Tim Coleman, Trevor Campbell and Chris Perry say the Xtrainer suspension works well at what it's mean to do, we'll trust their opinions. Not young uns who are probably no good at hard enduro and using the wrong bike for the wrong stuff ROFL!