ROBOUTE GUILLIMAN FEARS THE ECCLESIARCHY!
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- Hi all, Wolf Lord Rho here!
Today we are discussing Roboute Guilliman, Primarch of the Ultramarines and Regent of the Imperium. And his fear of a civil war with the church of the Emperor.
The events we are discussing today are from the warhamemr 40,000 novel Dark Imperium: Plague War. As always I really recommend you read the novel for yourself first. As that's the best way to enjoy the lore. Not only that, we help to support the great Games Workshop and Black Library. Because without them we don't have the lore to talk about! Link: www.blacklibra...
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Guilliman: The emperor is not a god
Ecclesiarchy: Sir I believe you are mistaken
Guilliman: No I'm not I'm ser-
Ecclesiarchy: No sir
(Puts on pointy hat)
I believe you are mistaken
Guilliman: *sweating intensifies*
Actually funny!
Kinda reminds me of history of Stalin in Soviet Russia. You can't really dismantle a cult without exposing yourself if you were part of it at some point
For the two seconds the pointy hat wearing person would last it would be funny
I'm starting to respect Lorgar's GANGSTA in a weird way. I feel dirty.
@@dominicomegon4714 heretical tingles?
"Nor did Sanguinius."
**heavy Astartes crying on the distance**
A space marine knows no fear but a Primarch a Primarch fears tall hats and white cloth.
YOU SHOULD FEAR IT
THOU SHALT FEARETH THE DONGHAT
Who wouldn't fear a donghat ?
The primarchs never underwent the hypno-doctrination that most 41st millenium marines did.
It's not the tall hats RG fears. It's the trillions of fanatics and even thousands of brainwashed Space marines that follow every word of the persons wearing the tall hats he fears.
If the Church declare him a heretic for not worshiping the Emperor and even going against them, the Imperium will have possibly THE biggest civil war since the Horus Heresy on their hands. And that is the last thing humanity needs when Chaos is literally spliting the galaxy in half.
I initially hated the return of Roboute after dealing with 5th edition lore and rules of the Matt Wardian days, but they made Roboute so human he's immensely relatable. It's almost as if Roboute is looking at the Imperium from the perspective of us, the players who play the games and read the books. At least for me it seems that this is the case. Even then, that's one of the weirdest things about Horus Hersey series, that the Emperor did not have the foresight in that possibly Lorgar and the Word Bearers would grow to resent him after the event on Monarchia.
Sovspot
That is judging a superhuman being by human standards - someone who exists in the warp as well as the physical realm.
There is a story where malcador is taking to a friend who is on thier death bed. He makes some dubious claims to her about his and the Emperor’s plans. Then he sits with her till she passes.
why does every fucking thing have to human and relatable ffs -
I'd say it's because he, as a Primarch, is much more individualistic and independant than the drone-minded rank-and-file of the Imperium.
One of the short stories imply that he knew that would happen. It implied he didnt know which Primarchs would fall, but the Emperor knew half of them would
Interesting tidbits: Guillliman actually reads Lorgar’s book after theorising whether the Emperor has effectively become a god (in the sense of warp power).
And before the end of the heresy, Lorgar met some of the first members of what became the Imperial Cult, and was outraged at them.
It was nice to hear him admit he was bigoted towards Lorgar in a way. That's why he now reading the thing to try and understand his brother better.
@@nosignal7156 He was following orders, it's not like he had pleasure in razing the city. Although, I get your point.
@@bryanaa196 i will admit its one of those orders where maybe he should've of disobeyed and tried a different way to solve the worship issue
@@Rammkommando Ok Guilliman was accompanied by the Emperor and the Sigilite to censor Logar it wasn't his plan he was hardly the highest ranking being there
@The serpent must die Well, "fanatical", to use Guilliman's own term.
I really want to hug Guilliman. Guy has the WORST TASK and the Heaviest Responsibility in the Imperium. Regarding Lorgar's fall, I think it would have eventually happened as you said unless something radical happened.
Regarding a War with the Eccclesiarchy well I agree with Guilliman's way right now. The Eccclesiarchy is too big and too much a part of the Imperium's foundations to confront ESPECIALLY with all the external problems the Imperium Faces.
Thats Vulkan's job to hug him
@@iconicusensign9624 FRIEND.....
The idea of Guilliman admitting openly to someone that perhaps the emps might of wanted this to happen all along is, quite a revelation I think you missed.
Which would have made him feel even more pissed at being ordered to burn Monarchia, given the hypocrisy if this was what Big-E wanted.
it also hints at the possibility the Emps was after godhood all along.
@@MrKago1 So he just eliminated all other religions just because they were competition. (starting to sound like a no so much the good guy) which would be interesting.
I like to think that a part of the emperor did wanted to be worship as a god but he hate the gods of chaos and religion too much to admit it.
@@bencox3641 yeah, I tend to think that too. but I also think that the reason he wanted this was for two reasons, he knew what fate awaits his soul all too well should he die (he couldn't be reborn as the shaman originally wished). he also knows full well that it will take a pantheon of humanity's own to protect it from the parasitic life forms like Nurgle and Khorne. basically the only way to counter them is to eventually replace the parasites with symbiotes rather than "kill" them.
As soon as Guilliman entered the Throne room, the Emperor started radiating energy, his being virtualy glowing like a sun. It was as if a prisoner saw what he perceived as salvation, a lost weapon or tool that would free him from his cage.
Rather than the fatherly warmth of seeing his son again, after such a long time.
Guilliman's return sparked the hope of being released from his eternal tornment. Which, of course, is understandable.
But that is the actual reason why Guilliman was dissapointed with him. All he received from the Emperor in that moment was the stench of self pity and inner fixation. Instead of caring what was happening all around him and to his Imperium.
So he grabbed the Emperor's sword and took it upon himself to salvage as much as was possible of their long lost dream.
Right on!
Can Guilliman really blame the Emperor though? So much has gone to waste while he was on the throne. He wants to be free. To return the imperium back to what it once was.
Only Magnus can sit on the throne and not be destroyed by the power of it, It would kill anyone else. No, the emperor knows he must stay or allow the Chaos Gate Magnus opened, to get his warning through, to spill forth legions upon legions of deamons and turn Terra into a Demon World. If it weren’t so, the Emperor would have allowed his body to die and be reborn as all Perpetuals do. The Emperor has more than likely died before.
@@fennec428 Of course not. I'm sure Guilliman understood the magnitude of Emps' sacrifice and thought about it after their meeting.
@@jamricsloe Honestly Terra isn't that important anyways. I'd say fuck it.
You can feel the weight of the imperium on Guilliman's shoulders
If only The Angel himself would return, but he's busy in the Warp.
I think Guilliman is too hard on himself. I personally blame the Emperor for the heresy. For all his power and foresight, he couldn't prevent the fall of his sons. He was so far removed from the rest of humanity that he just assumed his people and sons would operate purely on logic. For all of his talk of not being a God, he certainly had the arrogance of one. And that arrogance cost him and his people their future. And every day he pays the price for his failure. I feel bad for Gulliman. He's strong, intelligent, and a great leader, but even he has and will continue to struggle to hold the Imperium together. No man, primarch or otherwise, should have to carry so heavy a burden alone.
The Emperor has been keeping the Imperium alive for 10000+ years. What do you mean no man or Primarch otherwise should carry the burden when the Emperor has been carrying The Imperium all this time when all of them abandoned him and the people of Terra and everyone. Instead of staying in Terra and spreading the Imperial Truth and organizing the Confused and terrified Population into order and taking control of the Administratum and reforming it into a better one. THEY FUCKING LEFT AND INTO FUCKING PENITENCE SHIT AND BULLSHITERRY. !!!!! AND THE EMPEROR IS IN FUCKING AGONY, ADDING THE HORUS INFLICTED ON HIM,THE THRONE IS SPLITTING HIM APART ONE BY ONE, TOGETHER WITH WHAT'S LEFT OF HIS HUMANITY, MAKING HIM MORE UNFEELING AND COLDER THAN BEFORE, CAUSING NOT ONLY PHYSICAL BUT PSYCHOLOGICAL. EVEN THOUGH HE DIDNT SHOW THEM LOVE IN FRONT OF THEIR EYES, DEEP INSIDE HE LOVES THEM AND IS PROUD THEM BUT HORUS DESTROYED IT ALL. THE EMPEROR HAS BELIEF IN NOT ONLY LOGIC BUT IN THE HUMAN SPIRIT, THAT'S NOT ARROGANCE THAT'S BELIEF AND HE BELIEVED WITH THOSE AND EACH OTHER, WE COULD TRIUMPH AGAINST EVERYTHING THE PARASITES THROW AT US.
Rex Imingan stop larping as an Imperial citizen, that’s the kind of reason everyone laughs at 40k fans. You don’t see Lord of the Rings fans pretending that they are elves.
@@casbahowl8128what? This is how I express myself, and the words that I typed is real. And who cares about them anyway? If I am a typical IMPERIAL CITIZEN to them. Does it matter?
You assume that all of this, including the heresy, is not part of the Emperor's plan.... maybe all that has happened and is happening is within his design
He treated them like tools and the tools rebelled. To him that is what they were tools he created to achieve his goals and when the goals are achieved they will be tossed aside just like the thunder warriors.
This is essentially the grimdark version the Life of Brian.
So who is the mother?
Will there be a man referred to as "Biggus Dickus"? Or more importantly will everyone be singing "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life" at the end?
Kind of tragic, but hearing RB say he will follow his own path is spooky. Makes me think we're going to see another civil war when the Lion awakens.
KUNGFUFIGHTING how so? They both believe in the imperial truth and want the best for the imperium. And the Fallen are a perfect example as to why there should be Chapters and not legions.
RG would step down if his brother asked him to.
None of the Primarchs believe the Emperor is a god. Only Lorgar believed that, and that was temporary.
@@TheCasualMark And RB regrets separating the legions into chapters
While its true Guilliman now doesn't trust the Lion and they keep almost coming to blows . They both see the other as accomplished . After the Lions actions in Empire secundis I don't see Guilliman ever following the Lions lead again as he accepted a subordinate role and the Lion killed civilians hunting down Kruze . Both Sangunius and Gulliman took Konards word over the Lions protest (that was broken faith or they never had any in the Lion). I also don't see the Lion causing a civil war The Lion could most likely kick the crap out of Guilliman (even though Guilliman for such a intelligent primarch has never shown common sense in Primarch vs. Primarch Battles as he took on both Logar and Agron and zero fooks where given, He was just Lucky that Logar didn't pile on as Angron whipped his butt, most likely too busy with the summoning the warp for Angron to ascend/live) Don't forget Guilliman broke the Lion sword and I think the only reason Guilliman and the Lion didn't come to blows then was the Lion genuinely felt ashamed in front of two of his brothers as his deception comes to light. So yea lots of friction but no civil war.
I personally think Lorgar much represented the psychologically dependent nature of human populance. The masses are generally more attracted towards symbols and iconography than one would think. I can see obvious reasons the Empror do not want such things in his vision for the imperium, but from hindsight, it was not wise to simply deny such longing of worship, especially if it were just a fraction of his men. Some were exceptionally good at finding replacements, it turned out.
The Big E agreed with Marx... another strike against him to my way of thinking.
@@treyriver5676 Rather he agreed with National Socialism to be honest. Lack of religion, yet "worship" of the state ideology and iconography etc. Keeping humanity pure while exterminating xenos. Allowing trade, and capitalism under the state, and making science paramount. Pretty much screams NatSoc to me atleast. :)
@@skalgrimfellaxe5796 it is not very NatSoc if you allow other worlds a large amount of leeway in how they govern themselves.
If Big E was a NatSoc then every world would have the same political and leadership structure as Terra.
@@jamescawl6904 We don't actually know how that would work out cause National Socialism was strangled in its infancy. Although its kinda funny cause democracy and communism works the same way that you say National Socialism does. Those two cant stand other ideologies!
@@scutumfidelis1436 True
But the problem with socialist ideologies is that it is vulnerable to Extreme Authoritarian rule.
He needs the Lion to kick the Ecclesiarchy in the Nuts.
I was personally hoping Dorn would be the first to come back and join again with roboute. I keep hoping roboute would admit the Codex was a misktake in some regards.
@Citizen Khan Why? Why would he turn Traitor? Like Guilliman he would hate what the Imperium have become, he would be enraged sure and point fingers at Guilliman for sure.
However we all know that Guilliman barely got back and he hates everything and more than ever before, he needs a brother and a being like himself in this grim dark setting. Guilliman is on the defensive out of protecting his own realm and what resources he has gain now from the aggression (The Crusade).
We need a Lion to take the offensive while Guilliman takes on the rebuilding and politics/history/art of office.
@@snurgumwurgum8238 Roboute has already said that the Codex itself was necessary in the aftermath of the Horus Heresy, now more than ever, Guilliman knows that at this time the legion's themselves need to raise above one thousand brothers, they need to be legions once more in order to deal with the constant threats on a galaxy scale.
@@snurgumwurgum8238 He did, he mentioned that he is working on implementing changes to the Codex
@@snurgumwurgum8238 I personnaly think vulcan would be the ideal primarch to complete roboute, a wrecking ball on the battle field and caring for the population, someone to take care of the military side so guilliman can just focus on the reshaping of the imperium
*"Yes one of the few loyal sons has returned and now leads us"*
*"Yes Brother Jasmos, now are you thinking what I'm thinking?"*
*"B U R N H I M"*
I'm liking this Roboute Guliman of the current lore better than his past..
A sign of good leaders is the ability to empathize even with the enemy, to understand they are people with desire & reasons that may be just as valid as one's own.
A lot of people always running down Guilliman as a vanilla marysue but, these are VERY GOOD qualities for leaders to have-
Kind, morally inclined, disciplined and, helpful- that is the kind of leader I want...... Which primarch would you want in charge in real life? He would be a good choice then wouldn't be? Better than Fulgrim or Mortorian selling you out to Slanesh & Nurgle cause that would just be GWOSS!
Sanguinius, definitly.
Becouse Guilliman realy are vanilla marysue?
În the Grim far future?
Regal Dorn would have been better, even more disciplined in the art of war and determination to see the war through in a universe in which demons walk in their countless numbers.
But Gulliman is no pushover, I do appreciate him seen snippets like these.
02:29 For a moment I thought Guiliman called her "you silly." 🤣
You silly, yousilly.
yeah same here
It makes sense to fear church, I mean if you don’t come to church church gonna come to you
*Imperator Titan War horn sounds in background*
Guilliman and fear in the title immediately sparking interest.
I mean I'm not entirely surprised either considering he knows and has periodically said that his father isn't a god. With the empire being something of a theocratic oligarchy I can imagine him pushing too hard could lead to Civil War, the ecclesiarchy declaring him another traitor like those during the Horus Heresy
THE SMURF CAN FELL FEAR
Guilliman is the least likely person to do so. That’s why he was brought back.
A sticky wicket. Can you imagine how they must have been overcome when they heard he'd returned? They would have fallen to their knees and wept like children. Now he's telling them everything they believe is wrong, while doing everything the way only an Angel of their God could..
Well you'd hate them too if they kept defying order claiming to hear your dad when dad never spoke to you.
@@Lightscribe225 Aurelian, dat you bro? :)
You know when guiliaman says he seen the true emperor, the one that never loved him and saw him as a tool, what he's actually missing is that the emperor has been stuck on the throne for 10,000 Years, being force fed thousand pykers to keep his rotting body alive, trapped awhile his empire is corrupted and destroyed....
That's going to have some side effects like wearing down your humanity down to dust. The guy did love him but now he's been grinder down into a shadow of his former self. Can you blame him for not showing any emotion.
A good thing about the imperial cult is that it seems to have an effect on the deamons and others warp entities, so I think that it would be very useful, for the Imperum if Guilliman would take control and send more priests to the battlefield to banish chaos followers.
Lorgar: You are a God!
Emperor: NO
Lorgar: But you clearly are!
Emperor: I SAID NO
Lorgar: OK. I'll make you in to one then.
Plot twist... the entire Heresy was just so Lorgar could do what he was made to do ..
just as lodgar planned
Dark Imperium has really made me look at Roboute in a totally different light. I always thought he was too dull and professional imo just came off as boring. Oh, boy am I glad I read Dark Imperium I genuinely feel sorry for him and find myself rooting for one of his brothers to return to help him share the burden and for him to have someone to confide in. He is starting to become one of my favourites primarchs.
Point of interest from Plague War. Matthieu’s inner dialogue mentions he is the only survivor of his temple’s destruction by Heretic Astartes who had hydra iconography. It’s not impossible that he could be an Alpha Legion sleeper agent.
Alpharius?
@@rayanhey2411 Yes?
did his temple fall before or after Guilliman return?
The smiling gun-knight It’s not certain, it’s only mentioned that it happened. The servo skull he has with him is the skull of his teacher who was tortured to death during the attack
My very first thought.
I just got a crazy though, what if Lorgar was actually the only one who understood that the Emperah was a god? and big E tried to convince everyone through the imperial truth of the opposite so his true nature wouldn't be exposed
I love this writing. The part where he says "Did the Emperor plan this all along". So many of us fans have asked that for a very long time. If so, hecks no is Guilliman to blame. I dont think its his fault anyway. Guilliman puts to much weight on his own shoulders.
I think Lorgar can join the Emperor's side now that the Emperor is truly a god. This might be Lorgar's master plan all along to make his beloved father into the god he wanted. I mean Lorgar's meditation could be a spell to turn big E to the big G
This brings to mind when Malcador confronted Horus and after Horus professed his "right" to rule over mortals he reminds Horus that is not for the likes of him to rule over ordinary men. which indicates while Guilliman felt like just a too to be used in his Father's plans the Emperor had a;already decided that his demi God sons were not going to rule over humanity so who was supposed to rule over Humanity??
Emps wanted humanity to forge its own path without causing its own downfall and corruption with chaos
2:28 I can't help but hear "I've already granted you permission to be impertinent, you silly... speak!"
on a serious note, Guilliman saying he is treading a delicate path, in that he doesn't want to be venerated... He is born of the warp, and if he gets too much veneration his warp derived spirit will become a bigger part of his being than it already is, and he has been suppressing it from the start.
What Guilliman fears most is the Holy Krak Grenade of Antioch. Oddly enough, that Monthy Puthon reference is in the canon.
I love how human, how relatable Girlyman is in these stories.
Like Seraphon said, The Lion coming back is gonna break all hell loose. I foresee another Civil War when he does. He will laready be pissed about Bobby G running the Imperium, IMHO, then he'll see what The Ecclessiarchy has done to The Imperium and completely lose it.
pissed or not h'ed have to accept Guilliman running things the Emperor commanded it after all
I got the impression from reading the First Heretic that Lorgar knew that the heresy and civil war would result in an Empire held together by faith. The exact same faith Lorgar was punished for. It was Lorgar's revenge, his coup de grâce, and the apotheosis of his vision, all in one.
You just glossed over “assuming the Emperor hadn’t intended this to happen all along”. Seems like a pretty important statement.
he prefer the more human big E (which he fucking well isn't) so wolf like to ignore things that put big E in a bad light
Thanks for the video Rho!
I listened to both Dark Imperiums because of you. Thank you for showing me how to listen to the Black Library. This has helped me more than you know, its always been hard for me to read. I get headaches and I cant focus no matter how hard I try so I've given up on books even though I know there are great stories just behind the covers. I have never finished a book but thanks to you I now know there are audio books and I can FINALLY enjoy books! I'm a Ultramarine player but I was a Dark Angels player first so after finishing The Dark Imperium books I listen to Leman Russ The Great Wolf and now I'm on Angels of Caliban. If you do happen to see my comment could you recommend another Guiliman book like the Dark Imperium books? Thanks again and keep the videos coming, they're great!
Shepherd2305 as someone who loves to read and listen to audiobooks, I am most glad you have found a way to enjoy stories!
I highly recommend you reading the Horus Heresy books of the Ultramarines, people are still beating a dead horse in regards of Matt Ward, however the story of the legion itself shows character.
They are the Romans/Greeks of our world's historical era in their grand time, their weakness is pride and their strength is the unity and clarity of democracy, knowledge, history and that of craftsmen (World builders).
It is in fact te Ultramarines themselves that has most respect for humanity than any other legion, because of Guilliman's view that everyone is their own are the architect of their own fortune and place in society.
Same here.
I just gotta say thank you Rho these videos always make my day. I am not so lucky to be able to buy every book, hell I only have the first 10 of the horus heresy, but these videos fill me in on important dialogue and events I would otherwise miss out on. I just gotta say props to the author here for confirming something fans long said, the primarchs did have different roles and traits. Guilliman even explains the overlap and differences between himself and Rogal. As such, this just further cements my idea that the legions themselves were also designed for different roles, since their gene fathers themselves had different qualities. Also, it would be easy for guilliman to refuse to acknowledge his traitor brothers, or only do so in hatred. But here we see guilliman can be open and honest about his brothers, even the bad ones, nodding to Curze foresight and gifts as being near par with Sanguinius, with a cocktail of crazy mixed in.
Assuming of course the Emperor didn't intend for this to happen all along.....
The fact that he can say that after seeing a Corpse Emperor seated on a Throne for millennia is so telling. Surely it implies the new power and direction of the Emperor is far departure from the Father Gman new back in the day.
I personally think with Bobby G running the show you won't have to worry about a civil war, he is much too pragmatic. ( at least not a civil war that starts WITHOUT Chaos playing an integral role)
Demigod: "None of us saw it coming."
Average human: "It was pretty obvious."
History repeats itself ... the emperor had to forge an alliance with the mechanicus to create the imperium , it looks like gulli has to arrange himself with the Ecclesiarchy...and both had/and will turn against the imperium!
Considering that the Dune Saga by Frank Herbert (a source of inspiration for 40k) shows something similar, I see why he doesn't want to just take control of the ecclesiarchy
Love the idea of the Inquisition telling Gulliman like:
“Praise the God-Emperor!”
“God Emper- Have you ever even spoken to my Father?”
“Do you not praise him?!”
“He’s my father for Christ’s sake!”
“Guards! Arrest this heretic!”
inquisition can't touch him with the custodies backing him thou.
@@songhan1586 inquisition: custudes is heretic
"... except poor Konrad."
As a huge Night Lords fanboy, this was honestly heartbreaking to hear.
Like, he had SO MUCH POTENTIAL... "But Konrad... was insane."
T'was also nice to hear Guilliman acknowledge that the Emperor may have planned that.
Honestly this is something I've been wondering about since Guilliman returned,how he'd deal with the Imperial Cult,I thought it would simply collapse as it did in TTS once Guilliman reminds the Imperium of the Imperial Truth,but now I know it's way harder than that...
Thanks Rho!
You can't wash away 10k years of brainwashing just like that.
If Guilliman spoke out, the Ecclesiarchy would probably brand him as corrupted and a Traitor for speaking against the holy God Emperor. I believe even if big E himself would return, the Ecclesiarchy would make up some bullshit to justice their faith.
@@CedricBassman I honestly haven't considered the possibility of him being branded a heretic/traitor,for some reason I just assumed they wouldn't actually accuse him of heresy after not being corrupted the first time.
@@THExRISER
It's very possible that this would happen. The Ecclesiarchy are so far up their own -ass- Faith that they would rather jump to the conclusion that the iron willed Primarch somehow became corrupted than to think that the whole faith they based the Imperium on for the last 10K years is exactly what the Emperor tried to avoid.
Another Reason for several folks would be this: The average Citizen in the Imperium is treated as expendable shit, but there are those who live in wealth at the cost of others or who are in a position of political/religious power * cough * Inquisition * cough * and don't want this to end.
Because if Guilliman had his will this definetly would end. So said Groups using Heresy as an excuse to try and "dethrone" Guilliman would not be far fetched.
Especially considering the one incident where a Guardsman was executed by an Inquisitor...because he used a Tau rifle and saved 200 Lifes in doing so. The Inquisition is *that* lunatic.
@@CedricBassman Oh I know how bad the inquisition can be,it's kinda terrifying they'd be willing to risk a new Horus Heresy than admit they're wrong,I mean it happened in the Months Of Shame.
@@CedricBassman the inquisition can't dethrone him, especially not on terra because of the custodies the problems is they will cause a big ass civil war
I loved both the Dark Imperium books and I think Guilliman was the perfect (and realistically, only) choice for the resurrection of a loyalist Primarch. What bothers me is that Haley left the series on a cliffhanger ending and now seems to have abandoned the story arc, events in the WH40K universe have overtaken the end of the second book and we never got the second sequel. It's pretty rotten to sucker people in to a story, where they purchase 2 books, then leave that thread unfinished whilst the author moves on to other things.
thats kinda standard GW doing isnt it though? They like abandoning thing and leaving them unexplained.
@@karambiatos they leave things open for future changes
Unless something drastic happens then yes, an Imperial Civil War is inevitable. As for Guilliman's regret about Curze...well with the Night Haunter dead and gone Guilliman can aford to be less harsh in his opinion of him
I think the Emperor planned the Heresy to a degree, to reduce the population of Astartes and Primarchs, but the involvement of the Dark Gods wasn’t planned
I believe he planned that the dark gods would have corrupted a few, such as lorgar, and the probably the purged. But I don't think he thought the dark gods would pit the primarchs against one another, such as having Horus use leman to go after magnus to turn magnus against the emperor, which would cause tension amongst the loyalists... and all that happened the way that it did.
clicked the video paused got my shot of vodka got my smoke now I hit the play button :)
OMG I love these out of combat thoughts of Guilliman it REALLY makes me question my New Year New Army for 2020. #Salamanders #Ultramarines. Thank you Wolf Lord I always eagerly check CZcams every morning to see if another kick a** video of your was posted!
#Salamanders , The fire Drakes are cool !
I've always figured the split that is coming is when another Primarch returns. All the hints seem to point towards The Lion being the next and I doubt he's going to put up with Imperial Church, with Guilliman as Regent or with the Codex Astartes. Perhaps add in the Dark Angels secret being revealed and the whole situtation is a powder keg. You could well end up with the Imperium split between Imperium Primus and Imperium Nihlus in the style of the Roman Empire.
no choice but to put up with Guilliman being in charge its the Emperor's command
@@Aristaios Yeah says Guilliman. There was always a hint of mistrust about his ambition from the other Primarchs and the Lion may not exactly be invited into the Emperor's presence to confirm it if the DA secret comes out.
@@Verity98765
The so called hint of mistrust regarding Guillimans ambitions is based on nothing real tho.
Just look at Macragge or any world in the realm of Ultramar. Their quality of life is miles ahead of any other world the Imperium has to offer. Guilliman believed in the Vision of the Emperor, the one where Humanity prospers. He hates the Echlessiarchy and the Imperial Church as much as the Lion would do and he himself said the Codex Astartes was meant to be a set of guidelines, not literal laws anyone has to obey word by word.
And of all the Primarchs the Lion is the last one to throw any mistrust around regarding someones ambitions.
When Gorillaman's favorite Ecclesiarchy member is almost called "Matthew"
He’s walking a very fine line. It’s a good thing that he was given the skills of a statesman to handle that, or the imperium would destroy itself and old Abbadon would reach for the chaos popcorn.
Man I love Guy Hayley he writes characters so well.
Gulliman is not to blame. The Emperor is to blame. He created Lorgar to play his part. The Emperor always knew...
You're awesome Rho! Always love the vids!
He should blame himself for the tyrranids as well. Light from the Pharos attracted the great devourer under guillimans command.
The newest White Dwarf (1/2020, page 33) says that it was the Necron Silent King who created Tyranids to destroy all life in the Galaxy. It seems that if Guilliman would not attract them by Pharos, the Necrons would find another way to bring Nids here. The blame is now on the Necron Silent King not Guilliman any more.
Now I kinda want a list of Primarchs whose talents overlapped. There are some obvious ones, like Alpharius and Corax were both adept in stealth and infiltration. Or Vulkan and Ferrus in their skill in the forge, but who could we compare that are not as obvious?
Out of all the primarchs my favorite has to be Vulcan his humble beginnings as a blacksmith's adopted son, fighting the dark elder that terrorised his people. Which is why he hated the elder, and why he and his son's the salamander's fight hard to protect the people of the imperium. Of the different chapter's they have a deep and strong relationship with their people. They don't stand off afar from the people they walk and talk with them. The only other chapters I think that mingle amongst their planets population are the Crimson Fist of Rynn's world, and maybe the Blood Angels, and maybe the White Scars I don't know about the Space Wolves maybe.
6:48 that really debatable space marines alone are barely even human both in a physical and mental sense but leaving that aside I think the problem for Primarchs like Guilliman is that relay on the emperor love and favour way too much.
I remember this first part from reading the book ..... though from the end of plauge war I think Roboute is close to snapping the Priest in half . You know that Children of The Omnisaiah soundtrack you use to play in the background ? that has literally stuck with me since I started to watch your videos and the music does nothing but make me feel how much weight the Primarch has returned to take on and his struggle to make everything right . I love Roboute . WE MARCH FOR MACRAGGE ! WE KNOW NO FEAR .
Great read. I can relate to our Primarch . stories of fiction spilling out into reality and how we live through it , for us all.
I think that the Emperor rushed a lot of things with the Primarchs and handwaved them on by because he knew what their potential was, but forgot that he has had more than 30,000 years more experience than they have of mastering that potential.
I like how that we should read the book by ourselves, but it is so much nicer with your voice to hear that
Guiliman: Daddy is no god.
*Angry hat noises*
Guiliman: You don't need to spend half the time praying when building or maintaining technology.
*Angry toaster noises*
Guiliman: I got new super space marines and all astartes chapter are to implement them.
*Angry astartes noises*
Guiliman: Time to record the real history of the Imperium without censorship.
*Angry inquisitorial noises*
Guiliman: Who else do I need to piss off?
the scaffolding was there, the design in place, and the materials ready. The Raising of monarchia (
*Gilliman enters the throne room
Big E: Hey, here's that stamp I lost 10k years ago
I don’t think he does, he wants to destroy it
He cant it would cause new civil war that Empire cant afford right now!
@@voytek6520 yeah, I theorize this also. The best thing Guiliman would do is make the best of the situation and just let it be and worship. Even the Emperor understood this by now. The Imperial Truth is Dead but that doesn't thats the end.
I agree RH does not fear the eclisiarchy. They are too powerful to take them on now, but with the proper strategic moves he can reduce their power slowly over time, until they are weak enough to be eliminated. For now RG will use them as a tool for his own ends.
@@craigjones7343 Exactly, or use them to his purpose. We will see what he will come up with after reading the book.
Voytek Plague War is a good book. I am very interested to find out what is going to happen in the third one
I just got it say, love the videos. One of the things I really really like about your videos is that you’re not speaking the same Kings English as everyone else I hear reading these things. It reminds me of the movie, the death of Stalin, where all the English-speaking actors have different accents but it fit for the film because of the diversity of the different peoples in Soviet Russia. I kind of think of the same thing going on in the imperium except everyone has the same accent in the videos/audiobooks. Hearing you read Gulliman’s words was one of the first times that I thought of him as something other than Prim proper, raised for polite society kind a guy. I’ve definitely subscribed and look forward to going through your work. Thank you
Also I think the Heresy was bound to happen in some form whether it was Guilliman raising the city or Leman and his wolves destroying Lorgar and his legion.
I could see Corvus Corax coming back to "talk" with Guilliman about the Primaris Marines; while trying to flesh out a returning Logar to try and prove his point all along.
Everyone being pissed at the Primaris Marines is starting to get old real fast.
I can see why some Chapters in the Imperium don't like them, but no one talks about the Chapters who literally welcomed the much needed reinforcements.
(I'm not going into out of Lore reasons for the hate, because they are 50/50 between reasonable and just butthurt)
@@CedricBassman No, I'm from the standpoint when the Emperor allowed Corax to use and manipulate the geneseed; and Guilliman did it on his own.
@@bigchef290
Yes, how dares Guilliman to improve a flawed product.
Not to mention the original Geneseeds are getting more and more unstable in literally every Chapter, some faster than others.
the Red Thirst of the Blood Angels (and every single one of their successor chapters) for example, or the fact that Space Wolves during their initiation are in Danger of turning into Space Furries. Sprinkle more and more occuring random mutations in there and you have it.
@@CedricBassman Yes, but would Corvax know about the other chapters conditions since he had been in the warp for so long. I just want to be a fly on the wall when he demands an explanation from Guilliman.
Awesome vid Wold Lord Rho 👍
It's nice that there is a Primarch in the universe now that can actually talk about things like this
i have no idea how to play this ga,e but the lore aspect is pretty damn deep and entertaining.
God I love this primarch. He might be my favorite
Gullimen must feel like Phil Leotardo. He has to compromise.
Ooooooh.
He did twenty fucking years
Ten thousand fucking years in the can and not a single peep
@@connorsantonocito6015 lmao
@@danbrown5736 He wanted Manicott.. he ate grilled cheese of da radiatah.
Isn't it funny that how the Primarchs that considered themselves the most loyal, the most fanatical, the most willing to follow where the ones to fall first!!!
After hearing this, Guilliman NEEDS the guidance that only Jagathai Khan may provide. He needs to see the Tao.
After Bobby G said he won't be used by anyone again,,, I have a new respect for Girlieman
Lorgar would make sense. They have that history between them that played a huge key to the Heresy. That would be an interesting reunion in a book..
Discussing the irony of their fates.
I look forward to that discussion by the Wolf Lord Rho👍
Great video, I love your work!
Thank you!
5:10 Well said, Guilliman!
Guilliman would probably be thinking of how he destroyed Monarchia and in return Lorgars actions set into motion a future where every planet is Monarchia
He needs Johnson to get his lazy ass up so he can double down on that the Emperor is not a god thing
YAY! Konrad Curze is mentioned and praised.
AVE DOMINUS NOX!
BigG admiting, that Horus might have been right all along. Crazy!
Where is Pope Decius the 23rd when you need him?
All hail the Man Emperor of Mankind!
Praise be the Man-Emperor of Mankind.
Also, your soul is not dragged down by gravity it seems.
Now i'm looking forward to watching a continuation of the Death of Hope animation.
Yeah, brilliantly Dark!
Love to hear Bobby G talk about his family.
WHAT!!! Gulliman thinking for himself! Wow to hear Gulliman acknowledge Lorgar for his faith!, can you imagine a meeting of the two now, can you imagine Gulliman apologizing to Lorgar now and openly sharing his thoughts about what he really felt when he had to execute the will of the Emperor. WOW all of the sudden Papa Smurf got interesting!!! Wooo! Can you imagine Gulliman becoming an absolute badass! Antihero style!
Religious zeal is something to fear!
yeah... aloha snackbar!!!
@Cian McCabe *A shekel has been deposited to your account.*
Girlyman said that:
If the emperor stepped down from his golden throne and denounced himself a god.
The church would burn him a heretic.
I like Guilliman because he is thoughtful. At the time it was silly for the Word Bearers to worship the emperor-they could've gone with some other being and still followed orders. As someone practicing religion I see 40k's relationship with religion as interesting but missing much simply because it is a rehash of atheism vs theology except without theology having as strong basis as it does in the "real world" (how is that for irony?). In game is a potential irony is if there could be 2 rival by allied versions of the emperor as one is a physical version of him while another is the warpcreation of the emperor worship. Would the 2 become one? Would they share the imperium as neither influences things directly in a day to day way?
For reals, this part was the best part of the, so far, two _Dark Imperium_ novels.
I wanna see Lorgar redeemed. Imagine him working with the Imperial Church, the disagreements, and how he would work with Roboute and the other loyal primarchs.
I love your vids I think they're the stuff of legend. The in-depthness of it all the break downs and your own thoughts are amazing keep up the great work I always look forward to watching your videos.
Rowboaty logic: "My dad's corpse, decayed to nothing but bones, talked to me psychically and told me the truth of all his misbegotten plans...but he's still totally not a god despite the fact he's speaking to me from beyond death."
Just...go back and reform Imperium Secundus again Galloolieman, they were doing passably holding it together without you.
He's a unimaginably powerful psyker... And the church is not a good establishment at all. The Imperium is a dying laboring animal gasping for breath. How can you look at the War of the Beast or Vandyre and the sisters of battle and say they were doing fine?
@Cian McCabe By the logic of the Warp and how it works, his worship by billions of people, the fact he manifests miracles, the fact he has legion of dead astartes that will pop out of the immatterium to kick the absolute bajeezus out of major threats in moments of desperation, the fact he still scours the sight of psykers who form the adeptus astra telepathica, and his "life support" consists of a broken Drukari torture device would seem to suggest he has indeed become a god.
@@saheterabakutisha1476 because all those things happened 5+ millennia before the present point in game history and it made it through all of them and a bunch more civilization-ending tier disasters besides.
@@GentlemanBystander Big E has these power due to all the psykers that were sacrifaced to keep him alive and powering the Astronomican but also cause of the way the Warp works. Besides it being the Realm of souls poluted by the negative energies, almost all humans having latent psychic abilities, their thoughts and emotions have a profound effect in the Warp and when you have so many God damn humans praying and emotionally investing in to the belief of the Big E's divinity, you start to see how the Emperor can pull off the things he does, it's never just him alone doing it but the psychic agumentation and enhancment by an entire race of beings
@@krugicivic3359 Wow...just like a god...
These are the Warhammer universe's conventions, not mine, and according to those conventions they have made the Emperor (at the very least) a lesser Chaos god.
WHY?!?!?!?!? HE IS THE EMPEROR'S SON!!!!!!!!!! (and the only one left alive) SO HIS WORD IS LITERALLY LAW!!!!!!!!!
There are others, they're just traitors
The thing is, the ecclesiarchy is much more complicated than that. They'd simply declare him a demon, if he pissed them off enough. Note that this isn't them turning against the emperor, it's just so much of a truth that the emperor is a god, that IF Guilliman were to try and say that were false, they would go to the illogical (but only) conclusion that he was trying to shake them all of their faith in the emperor. This is essentially him coming down and telling them that they should turn from the emperor's light (which they wouldn't do).
He is not the only loyal one left alive xD he is just the only one the imperium has confirmed knowledge of being alive
@@LL-bh6bt This would be the same as them declaring war on every single space marine. This would be a war they would not win. I even think the Grey Knights would be uncomfortable if they were foolish to do this. I also wouldn't be suprised if the cult of mars sided against them either.
@@Beetlejuice2959 but its a war they cannot afford.
Man, did I miss these observations and spoiler warnings :)
Thank you Wolf Lord!