Great explanation Brian! I do want to say something real quick at the point 9:49 in the video about asking for smaller plunge tapers. I have spoken to several oems about this because it was something I was looking for on the plunge grind for the Reyne. Most of them refuse to do angled plunge grinds because (from what I was told) their machines aren’t able to execute them well. That’s why so many Chinese oem knives have the wide plunge tapers. They want the look of the wide plunge not only have the ability to have the fully vertical taper leading to the bad plunge termination. This might be a bad explanation, but I hope it explains the issue a bit.
Thanks for letting me know, that's really interesting. I've seen smaller tapers on some WE/Civivi, Kizer, Bestechs, but I think Reate almost always does a wider radiused plunge. Curious as to what's different and/or how much work it would be for them to change their style of plunge
Yeah, I've heard from half a dozen designers that Reate refuses, insisting that they *can't* make the taper narrower due to some supposed limitation of their equipment/process
this was the best explanation and how it should be done, and great work btw for always making perfect plunges and choils on your blades , you can really tell you wants there blades to be used
Thank you! This drives me crazy, too. There are definitely knives I would have bought but ended up not purchasing because they had crappy edge termination.
I love what you do. Hope your situation with Hinderer is working out. If you were white i bet he could’ve accepted your advice and possibly fixed his hardness issue. Being Asian like me especially in these politically turbulent times is not acceptable to the hard right that want a return to plantation days. The positive is you being family within the community with sharing your experience and knowledge has placed this issue in the hearts and minds of this community. Hopefully we can all grow from these situations. I know you are. Keep on keeping up the awesome work you do. You are much appreciated!
Unfortunately most designers and makers only care about how a knife looks when it's sold. Us that use our knives care about how it looks over time. Kinda like ano work, looks amazing when done and not used but if you carry a knife and use a knife that has alot of ano it looks like shit over time. Spyderco doesn't do it the best but sure does it better than most and personally really like the 90° plunge. My favorite way it's done is a angled plung grind like on my spk lamia. Great video
13:28 Dont underestimate my powah! 😅 Im using a 8dps relief bevel with a 0,1mm tall 17,5dps microbevel. So it would look like that rather early, but cut like a laser and still have apex stability. Interesting video! Recently bought a used dremel, super usefull for making small but deep choils! (Which before with files and sandpaper was harder.)
Man. Amen. I have been saying the same thing for so long. Sending companies pictures with their tapering plunge marked with a marker, to hopefully get them to understand. Some companies have for sure got better, releasing models with amazing edge termination and lots of room for sharpening while other models have the same old poo poo termination. I'm more forgiving with a cheap knife. But If I'm paying $300+ I want to sharpen my knife more than 2-3 times. I can of course modify it myself, but I rather companies and designers get it right. Might be the "Traditional Scandinavian" in me, but I want to use as much of the blade as possible, If not by myself the next generation.
A couple of points: Smoother and thus larger transition between the 2 plunge lines make the blade stronger and crack resistant, more stable when heat treated, etc. Looks better too. Not too big, not too small, that is the way. The height of the sharpening choil is more important than the width. Manly knives are doing a good knives for resharpening and the sharpening choils on those blade are super narrow and it still works well. Some locking mechanisms require wide and tall choils anyway, a good example would be super lock by Snecx. The blade meets the stop pin in closed position in such a spot, that there must to be a wide choil in the design. IDK why putting the first plunge line inside the handle is not more popular. Sebenza is doing it and it looks okay. Makes the blade lighter and allows you to make the transition way smoother. Most people dont sharpen their knives. They either continue to use them blunt (which works surprisingly well, when the cutting ability of the knife is good lol) or sell them or send back to factory for resharpening. I guess this must be the case, because otherwise a good grind with a reasonable plunge lines would be on every oem knife out there. When you dont sharpen, you just dont care about this :D
Yep, height definitely adds more than width, a lot of knives have a very wide choil but no height (for example the BBK Raptor). Some knives don't put the plunge inside the handle because the detent hole is just barely hidden and the plunge would cut into it, but plenty of designs definitely could benefit from moving it back as much as possible toward the handle
i get what you’re saying and have noticed it for a long time. is it really a problem? is it more aesthetics? sure a “smile” doesn’t look nice but i would say 99% of people never use that part of the blade. dont take it the wrong way is im really curious. you’re ig page and re blades brought me here. you have really good talent with re blades and great knowledge. my 940 from 2002 would love a new blade.
I'm curious. Why is it no one backs the plunge up under the knife frame itself? Just cheaper? I would think it would solve all of the sharpening issues most people get irritated with. I wish I had the means to do a knife. I could draw it out easy. But no idea on the rest of it
It wouldn't cost any more to do it that way. There are two primary reasons people don't do it: 1) the detent hole is close to the frame, so it's not possible or 2) the designer just thinks it doesn't look good/fits the design.
I do mine pre-heat treat but if you're modifying an already heat treated blade you can either use a round diamond file or diamond chainsaw sharpening bits on a dremel
Nice video. Will nite that for the few that actually use our knives, expect to sharpen for years and take away ample steel, we don’t care much about a smile. Purely cosmetic.
Support the designers and makers that care about you. I dont think that there is any other way than boycotting the companies that dont care about customers/users.
Great explanation Brian! I do want to say something real quick at the point 9:49 in the video about asking for smaller plunge tapers. I have spoken to several oems about this because it was something I was looking for on the plunge grind for the Reyne. Most of them refuse to do angled plunge grinds because (from what I was told) their machines aren’t able to execute them well. That’s why so many Chinese oem knives have the wide plunge tapers. They want the look of the wide plunge not only have the ability to have the fully vertical taper leading to the bad plunge termination. This might be a bad explanation, but I hope it explains the issue a bit.
Thanks for letting me know, that's really interesting. I've seen smaller tapers on some WE/Civivi, Kizer, Bestechs, but I think Reate almost always does a wider radiused plunge. Curious as to what's different and/or how much work it would be for them to change their style of plunge
Yeah, I've heard from half a dozen designers that Reate refuses, insisting that they *can't* make the taper narrower due to some supposed limitation of their equipment/process
I must say this is probably one of the most educational videos I've ever watched when it comes to folding knives.
this was the best explanation and how it should be done, and great work btw for always making perfect plunges and choils on your blades , you can really tell you wants there blades to be used
These are so good man I would love more
Thank you! This drives me crazy, too. There are definitely knives I would have bought but ended up not purchasing because they had crappy edge termination.
This is always been a subject ive wanted to know more about thanks for making this video
Great Viddy.
Really nice description 🙂👌 I don't get it kind of why some makers invest time to design a knife but dint invest time in those kind of obvious things
I love what you do. Hope your situation with Hinderer is working out. If you were white i bet he could’ve accepted your advice and possibly fixed his hardness issue. Being Asian like me especially in these politically turbulent times is not acceptable to the hard right that want a return to plantation days. The positive is you being family within the community with sharing your experience and knowledge has placed this issue in the hearts and minds of this community. Hopefully we can all grow from these situations. I know you are. Keep on keeping up the awesome work you do. You are much appreciated!
Unfortunately most designers and makers only care about how a knife looks when it's sold. Us that use our knives care about how it looks over time. Kinda like ano work, looks amazing when done and not used but if you carry a knife and use a knife that has alot of ano it looks like shit over time. Spyderco doesn't do it the best but sure does it better than most and personally really like the 90° plunge. My favorite way it's done is a angled plung grind like on my spk lamia. Great video
13:28 Dont underestimate my powah! 😅
Im using a 8dps relief bevel with a 0,1mm tall 17,5dps microbevel.
So it would look like that rather early, but cut like a laser and still have apex stability.
Interesting video! Recently bought a used dremel, super usefull for making small but deep choils! (Which before with files and sandpaper was harder.)
Man. Amen. I have been saying the same thing for so long. Sending companies pictures with their tapering plunge marked with a marker, to hopefully get them to understand. Some companies have for sure got better, releasing models with amazing edge termination and lots of room for sharpening while other models have the same old poo poo termination. I'm more forgiving with a cheap knife. But If I'm paying $300+ I want to sharpen my knife more than 2-3 times. I can of course modify it myself, but I rather companies and designers get it right. Might be the "Traditional Scandinavian" in me, but I want to use as much of the blade as possible, If not by myself the next generation.
A couple of points:
Smoother and thus larger transition between the 2 plunge lines make the blade stronger and crack resistant, more stable when heat treated, etc. Looks better too. Not too big, not too small, that is the way.
The height of the sharpening choil is more important than the width. Manly knives are doing a good knives for resharpening and the sharpening choils on those blade are super narrow and it still works well.
Some locking mechanisms require wide and tall choils anyway, a good example would be super lock by Snecx. The blade meets the stop pin in closed position in such a spot, that there must to be a wide choil in the design.
IDK why putting the first plunge line inside the handle is not more popular. Sebenza is doing it and it looks okay. Makes the blade lighter and allows you to make the transition way smoother.
Most people dont sharpen their knives. They either continue to use them blunt (which works surprisingly well, when the cutting ability of the knife is good lol) or sell them or send back to factory for resharpening. I guess this must be the case, because otherwise a good grind with a reasonable plunge lines would be on every oem knife out there. When you dont sharpen, you just dont care about this :D
Yep, height definitely adds more than width, a lot of knives have a very wide choil but no height (for example the BBK Raptor). Some knives don't put the plunge inside the handle because the detent hole is just barely hidden and the plunge would cut into it, but plenty of designs definitely could benefit from moving it back as much as possible toward the handle
i get what you’re saying and have noticed it for a long time. is it really a problem? is it more aesthetics? sure a “smile” doesn’t look nice but i would say 99% of people never use that part of the blade. dont take it the wrong way is im really curious. you’re ig page and re blades brought me here. you have really good talent with re blades and great knowledge. my 940 from 2002 would love a new blade.
It's mostly cosmetic, although it can also mess up your stones bumping into the plunge/taper
Education 👍👍
I'm curious. Why is it no one backs the plunge up under the knife frame itself? Just cheaper? I would think it would solve all of the sharpening issues most people get irritated with.
I wish I had the means to do a knife. I could draw it out easy. But no idea on the rest of it
It wouldn't cost any more to do it that way. There are two primary reasons people don't do it: 1) the detent hole is close to the frame, so it's not possible or 2) the designer just thinks it doesn't look good/fits the design.
Nice. What methods do you use to cut sharpening choils?
I do mine pre-heat treat but if you're modifying an already heat treated blade you can either use a round diamond file or diamond chainsaw sharpening bits on a dremel
Nice video. Will nite that for the few that actually use our knives, expect to sharpen for years and take away ample steel, we don’t care much about a smile. Purely cosmetic.
Stop saying "right"
How can I get in touch with you Brian? I’ve emailed your website multiple times without a reply. I would love to get a reblade for my 940
Can someone send the memo to Reate please?!
WORD!
You think designers and manufactures care about users?
Support the designers and makers that care about you. I dont think that there is any other way than boycotting the companies that dont care about customers/users.