Bisu (P) v Flash (T) on Fighting Spirit - StarCraft - Brood War REMASTERED
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2018
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![Game 5 Bisu vs FlaSh Starcraft proleague Rematch [T.E.N]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/H8t8pmcbvR8/mqdefault.jpg)
Just got home from shopping at the dollar store, microwaved some mini beef ravioli and now it's time to watch another Falcon Paladin Starcraft cast!
mentalpatientMp cool story bro
Jigov how?
@@jacobchang7955 it's radiation very harmful to the body and brain
@@bowm0 but why do we care about this dude - ur too nice
@user name more is more
A few points that were missed in this cast that I feel is very important to note:
1) 3 Base Terran: Terran can survive on just 3 bases for a long time, especially when for most of the game you're only playing defensively. The reason is because there is no urgency to get more resources if the units you make don't die, especially tanks. Vultures are expendable to some degree because they only cost minerals. Tanks are the important units to protect because they cost gas (purely from a resource standpoint, there are many other reasons why tanks are important) so if you protect your tanks, like Flash does, your need to expand to a fourth and fifth become significantly less urgent. This is also why if you watch literally any professional casting of a TvP, they make a big deal if some number of tanks get picked off. All you need to do is protect your third, which is why the two times Bisu kills Flash's third command is REALLY huge.
2) Turtle Terran: This style of play is what defines Flash's TvP matchup. The reason for turtling up is because Flash is waiting for 3 mech weapons upgrade. Until then, his tanks can't do the amount of damage needed to pick off the rush of zealots that would otherwise kill his tanks. The 3 mech weapons is undeniably the strongest upgrade in the game because it gives 15 additional damage to the tanks and at that point it becomes significantly harder for the Protoss to push. If you look at around 18:30 (has 2:1 upgrades), when Flash first pushes out, he's doing a timing push. Halfway up towards Bisu's main base, the 3 mech weapons finishes (19:40 has 3:2 upgrades). Only at that point can he contest map control in a dominant position.
3) Bisu's Second Expansion: The key point on when to expand is to always expand when you've done a successful attack or applying pressure. Right after the dark templar drops, that is when Bisu decides to take his second expansion. Why expand after applying pressure? It's because of map control. The DT's keeps Flash's units back at home, meaning they're most likely not out and about in the map. That absence of Flash's units is safe enough for Bisu to take an expansion.
4) Bisu's out of control expanding: Why does Bisu need that many expansions and why does he feel like he can take all of them without and repercussions? In any PvT matchup, the protoss is simply preparing for the moment terran gets 3 mech weapons. Because siege tanks are so good at killing pretty much every protoss ground unit, the protoss needs not only more resources but also more space to make more gateways so that he can continually produce units non stop and get a sizeable army in a small amount of time. That doesn't mean that the protoss army is fully expendable, but it gives the ability for the protoss to attack and possibly do more damage in the scenario that an equal trade of army occurs.
5) Why Bisu lost and what he probably should have done: Bisu lost simply due to his lack of response to the mass clump of tanks. Pretty much it. He could have done a few things to pick off the tanks:
-Shuttle Drops: Dropping zealots on top of tanks so that tanks kill each other from the splash damage. Bisu actually does this a couple of times but he doesn't do it enough. This is also one of the reasons why Flash makes turrets around his tanks (enough turrets will kill the shuttle before all 4 zealots are dropped). The other reasons being killing observers and, less importantly, creating some type of barrier from oncoming zealots.
-High Templar: Storms would do well against clumped up tanks and for the most part they would get in range since tanks auto target attacking units such as zealots. This also opens up the possibility of storm drops on the scv lines, since Flash's economy heavily depends on him defending his third.
-Carriers: Facing a 3 mech weapons tank line is near impossible to break without aribiters. In the case that even with stasis you can't breach the tank line, it might be time to think about getting 5-6 carriers to pick off enough tanks for the ground army to run the terran army over. With the presence of Carriers, the terran player will go more goliath heavy, giving an opening for the protoss army to fight a terran army with much less damage output.
6) NO CORSAIRS FOR D-WEB: If corsairs/d-web was really a solution to killing a tank line, it would literally be used all the time in late game PvT. The fact that it hasn't been a viable strategy besides like a couple of games (LITERALLY a couple of pro games, someone correct me please if there's been more than 2 pro games where corsairs were an integral part of a PvT for the sole purpose of d-webs) should tell you that it's not a good choice. Why? Because it's so damn expensive. Corsairs aren't cheap at 150 minerals and 100 gas. Also the upgrade is at 200 mineral and 200 gas. But even still, you might think the costs might be justified, expect for the fact that it takes forever for them to get the energy, you need quite a few to fully push back a terran, and that after they cast the d-web they just sit and do nothing. They don't kill science vessels quickly enough, they can get picked off by turrets and goliaths, and the d-web can be sidestepped by just spreading out your tanks a little more. If the energy cost for d-web was cheaper, maybe they become viable. But until then, they're really not worth it.
arbiter was too gas heavy to make templars i believe
Wow great post. But I think Bisu should have recalled the main base the second time. He decided to recall the third again but there were far to many spider mines and turrets. A better place would have been to recall the main. Then flash has to choose. Waste time and units defending the main. Then bisu mines of 5 bases for 1/2 minutes longer. Or push out with what he has. Also as soon as bisu hit 200/200 he should have recalled. He stayed at 200/200 and tried to bank money. I would have rathered he traded units. If you can stop a terran from getting 200/200 it usually incrases your chances of winning. Bisu hit 200/200 and flash was still 160/200. If you hit the main then you continue to delay flashes push which means hes closer to running out of minerals and you buy yourself more time.
One of the best StarCraft Broodwar comments of all time. Well done, sir.
TheTrooperMB no Protoss mix in Templar all the time with arbiter. Storm is becoming a lot more popular vs Terran these days because that late game mech army is so scary.
Aren’t carriers bad on fighting spirt compared to other maps? I also feel like he’d have needed to field the carriers much much earlier.
I didn’t realize there was a soldier inside the missile turret until remaster. I bet that dude gets dizzy as hell!
No he is not!
ho man you right!!! i see a soldier in side too.
LIMÃO
There's an official Starcraft novel from way back, I forget the name, that describes missile turrets as unmanned and automated. That writer didn't realise either!
FalconPaladin - I haven't even gotten the chance to watch this one yet, but today was a special day for me, and I just wanted to reach out to you and give you a big thank you for the work that you do. I don't even really play video games anymore, but something about listening to you commentate after a long day of work/troubles/stress these past few weeks has really been a blessing for me. I prefer BW content, but I even started checking out SC2 just because it's you casting. Your style is fun, but, there's something more to it. Maybe it's because you really love what you do, and really believe in it. I don't know. But it's something undeniably special. So thank you. Hope to check this one out soon. :)
I always love your casts because I watched them while running on the treadmill. The longer the cast the longer the run. The more exciting the cast the more likely I’ll fall off of that machine. Lol
Haha! Be safe, though :D
Guys, he mentioned about how vulture has a little guy actually riding it.
DID you guys know that missile turret is just the same? there's a little guy sitting in manning the turret while ....
spinning non-stop lmfao.
Poor dude lol
Terran spinning technology doesnt affect them dont worry. They are kind of immune to dizziness
Mind...blown... seriously lol.
@@520bert420 why?
@@user-tm4br8pf3n your mind will get blown sitting and spinning like that 24 hours
Walls are very weird in Brood War and it takes a lot of experience to be able to tell what units can pass and what can't just from looking at it.
Flash's wall was actually considered zealot-proof which explains why the first zealot couldn't just walk up to the marine behind the wall to kill him.
Pathfinding in the 90s was harsh
Those thicc booty Zealots from back in the day
@@jiraiyahermit4999 it wasn't due to pathfinding oddly enough, it's poor telegraphing of the building's dimensions and the fact that the placement "footprint" of most buildings are slightly larger than, or off center from, what they actually pathblock from units.
@@Templarfreak so sometimes better not to finish the structure
@@a_b_c_d_d_n_b_f_e_l_l_a no, the placement dimensions are explicitly only for the placement itself, as soon as the building is placed down by the worker it uses the different dimensions
you always make me smile when you go "wellcome to how far you can zoom out"
Damn. Flash knows what he's doing. I wouldn't want to play against him ... ever. Intense game. These guys are at a totally different level than us mere mortals!
1. FlaSh' Barracks and Factory were enough to block off any Zealots from entering his base.
2. Those are not observers talking in the replay, but automatic scripts done in the map editor :)
Thanks for the cast btw! Hoping to see more PvT where Protoss actually wins
17:35 "Didn't go well for the people taunting the Warriors either". LOlZ. SUBBED!
Ha, glad so many of you got that one. :D
That game was amazing! Generally, when you take that middle base out of desperation because you can't keep your third base up - you're totally f'd. What. A. Game!
lol I love Falcon's little hypothetical observations: "do you think they can see through the stasis but just can't move, seeing there's 18 dragoons waiting near them to murder them"
Thanks. :)
Falcon I officially love you just for that "warriors" refrence 😂😂😂😂
Holy shit I never knew there was little lad in the missile turrets! That is just casually life changing
We've always though the dude was a medic. LOL 1998 graphics card for you right there.
Holy hell, that was systematic destruction by Flash. Just steamrolling his way to victory.
It's just the OP seige tanks really
One of the best StarCraft Remastered games I've ever seen on this channel.
RHayabusa have you seen his z v t with a base race? The needing is a awesome cat and mouse with 20 units and 1 base each 😂😂😂 it's his last broodwar with the epic tag I believe
3:45 zealot standing there like friendly neighbour
18:50
That spider mine lol
spider mine dance :D
Yeah! That was very satisfying! 😁
I always come back to this video for the bisu probe micro. Unreal
So good!
18:45 that timing though
starcraft 2 just never felt as gritty or tactical as sc1.
because sc2 is for young gen y and z. trash ppl
@@FRFM00 ok *boomer*
@@shinjukim8576 I'm gen Y trash
@M J Lol who gets stuck on Bronze because of cheese? People on Bronze rarely have APM above 40, like their cannon rushes hit at 3 minutes or something lmao
I'm Diamond and I still have to defend like a cannon rush a day. If you can't defend cheese then you don't deserve to macro, sorry to say. And about Brood War being better, when I played Brood War at Garena everyone would just 6 pool every game. Talk about tactics! rofl
да лан, чё как маленькие. это же разные игры
I think time doesn't pass in stasis. The scary thing is when you blink from the start of the battle to being mopped up.
26:20 I think if you get stasis-ed, you don't comprehend what is going on. It is like a time bubble, you get stasis-ed, so one thing you see the arbiter throws a stasis on you and the next thing you see you are surrounded by zealots and dragoons. Everything that happens while you are stasis-ed, you can't see, cause you kind of jump 60 seconds into the future.
8:22 what a mindfuck. Haven't noticed them in the span of years of playing SC.
"flash is like a serial killer that way" LOOOOOOL WHAT A DESCRIPTION
the drop 18:45 is like "The Rock". Brutal...
When Flash gets maxed out its time to get scared. Awesome game, great casting!
So true! Glad you enjoyed the match!
i remember playing broodwar and always complaining about how terran is broken and op :D gladly returned into old habits after watching this replay!
Also u did a wonderful job, was missing these kind of oldschool casting! hats off to you
Wooo welcome back to Brood War!
Another prime time Flash versus the world. I wish he plays starcraft again.
laughed way harder then I should have at the "proob/prube" thing haha in my mind Falcon went French for a second.
Great game. Bisu seemed like he was going to try to let flash mine himself out but failed to contain him. Gotta use lots of stasis and recalls to beat that tank army. But really he shouldve done stasis on the tank army and mass dragoon zealot recall to his 2 big bases and base raced him. Easy to win a base race when you can stasis the majority of the enemy army and have the superior mobility of recall. Thanks for putting it out there falcon.
Glad you enjoyed it! :)
Carrier tech switch is very hard to pull off, Bisu need trade off units for supplies. Once Protoss is making carriers and in supply disadvantage, maxed out mech can snowballed Protoss very quickly before carrier becomes a factor.
Also, this map is wide open without many ledges, which make kitting Goliath much harder
I was the guy that questioned Flash’s apm that other cast. Since then, I saw some of his streams, and it looks like he doesn’t always spam his apm every game.
Godamn tanks are just too brutal whacking every single protoss unit and sending them back to Aiur in pieces. Awesome
Oh look, who got buddies who play 15min no rush 3v3 maps... falcon paladin
Oooh flash. My favorite. I was so sad when he got destroyed by this zerg who turtled and then decimated him with guardian. He went into a tailspin for many months before he got back to his proper self.
It's a Use map settings. The whispers telling time are programmed by who ever made the map.
The spider mines at 18:45, lol.
Ok so for info , this map has set up time messages (10 , 20.. minutes ect) because it is not an official fighting spirit map , it was fan custom made but that doesn't matter for the gameplay
best commentator! thank you Falcon! Спасибо тебе, Сокол!
Absolutely no observing secondary bases
I love Falcon P. He only one show so many replays regularly but this no observing not important parts of map kills me
Much love
Nice match my dude, would aprecciate if you could turn up the volume of the game just a bit.
What did they do in first 15 sec to reach 4xx apm? I see nothing to do there..
For variety, I'd enjoy a zoomed out view for most of a video.
AMAZING play.... FLASHNINATOR!
We not gonna talk about the Zealot that gets squished by the landing CC at 19:00??
We are not! Nice spot, though. :D
The answer in this situation has always been storm, bit lazy from the toss he got stasis but never went for storms?
I mean storm is great especially on the SCVs to slow the terran player but storm against tanks not super effective especially when tanks kill high templar before they get the storms off. Reavers and DTs on the base wouldve been a better answer. Cant take a tank pkund for pound unless you also have tanks
AIRBORNE PSYCO Good point I’m surprised he didint go with a zealot squad from the top then a couple reavers to flank that tank clump
i love this channel!
I love you, too, Spiderman!
Very good cast. I love this channel. Where can i play with some old maps like transistor, gold rush or third world. Thank you!!!❤
You want to plan on those maps? liquipedia.net/starcraft/Category:Maps
@@FalconPaladin yeah I think, thanks for the link
Wait there's a guy in the missile turret? How can he operate the thing when he's all dizzy from the spinning?
making prubes and drunes is good for your ecunumy?
The secret to winning with Terran is biding your time until you’re maxed out with upgrades.
Maybe Reaver and Shuttle would have made the vultures a little more manageable...
Siege tanks are so overpowered. Increase their supply by 1 or the cost by 50 gas would be more balance I think.
hey guy, can u teach me to upgrade protoss Probe ( Plus Particle Beam)!
Tanks on this map is rough. Immensely cost effective.
Those messages look like from the map editor :)!
I didnt notice there were dudes in the missile turrets lmao
FP- that barracks + factory at choke IS A WALL ZEALOT CAN NOT GET THRU, RINE CAN'T EVEN PASS THRU just FYI See in future you will know.
=A.G=MTY, Hunter)Deep, and Hunter)HK were legendary Chinese Brood War players.
Hunter) clan was no good, though. rox.kis- and n.die- where much more legendary
As for Zerg, Effort was talented. But he appeared when this game was not actual already. And there was good Protos too, in 2010-2012. Forget his name.
One thing never changes, Terran OP.
Love pro SC 1 gameplay. idk, SC 2 gameplay is just like warcraft 3 with me
Bisu needed a 2nd forge and upgrading shields. 3+ attack for ground wasn't enough.
hi there! can this game be downloaded in an imac?? how about the Generals?
Sure can! PC and Mac! us.shop.battle.net/en-us/product/starcraft-remastered
Great cast and game but hard to follow with x4 ads served! Thank YT.
Sorry for a dumb question, but are there high templars really that bad against terran mech? 🙄
This video so illustrates the difference of the 1440
So you saying that you never knew there was a man on the bike... I always knew, mostly because reynor was clearly visible on his bike. HOWEVER I absolutely never knew... Or expected.. And was blown away by, was the man in the missile turret, I thought it was fully automated since 98, wowee
Basically this is how every tvp i play goes.
The terran makes units and loses nothing while i lose everything in every fight ;-)
This game is hard af.
Jesus Christ! Bisu was good but FlasH was amazing the way FlasH plays was so methodically. The perfect amount of units and winning was just insane.
Falcon! You gotta cast some replays by noobs. It's funny laughing to randoms that don't play seeiously
Here's one! czcams.com/video/tO0wsB_YFmA/video.html
PvT has always been Bisu's weakest matchup while TvP has been flash's strongest. Flash was going to win this from the beginning.
I'm like a year late lol but I'm a big time Protoss user. Someday I hope to go against the best of the best 😊
Why bisu did not use the spirit storm ?
Pro micro of Sci Vessels mitigates high templars. That being said, when T was camped in the middle with only one turret and barely any gols, he P should have used one of his many arbs to cover two high temps and he could have wiped out that base before he scanned to kill the temps.
Each race must utilize its advantages, one of which is time ! If Zerg and Protoss want to win, they must do their best for their early attacks; otherwise, Terran is God.
storms and archons would have toasted those thanks.
пожалуйста..кто-нибудь... остановите этого террана
why no carrier?dont understand haha
Good match
What an epic game!
Why is always the Zerg background on the end-game-scoreboard ?
I have no idea, actually.
Use map settings. The person who created the map used Zerg as the mission load screen, so when the game ends it shows the same.
Obviously Terran is overpowered on the ground and Flash developed one of the the best tactics with it...
arbiters+dragoons and archons best demolosihng party
that first recall was sucha huge mistake, shoulda just sat there and kept expanding
Yay more brood war 😬
So bisu had basically the entire map they were both maxed out and then... Flash just wins? Not a lot of people are going to win vs Bisu when he has the entire map.
I’m not about to tell bisu how to play lol, but he had so much income at a point he could’ve transitioned to carriers.. he would’ve won since flash rode his vultures and tanks to the win
I think u can click on the players name to hide\show what they see
oh SHIIIIT!
Teran so op vs toss.... toss so op vs Zerg....zerg so op vs terran....
WHAT A WONDERFUL GAME
I dont Think i ever seen a game where flash looses?!
I've cast at least two on this very channel!
Well i guess i just have to watch Them all on your Channel then ;)
BTW would be lovely to see some more larva games.
Anyway great work ,Thank you and god bless u.
Is this free to play? I really wanna play
Re-mastered version isn't, but the original Starcraft 1 is.
O toss devia ter upado na força e escudo das units...
Even though this was a year ago, how did you not notice that the yellow chats in game that popped up at 15mins & 30 mins was a use map settings triggered chat 😂🤦♂️? You kept thinking & saying it was one of the observers typing in the chat lol.... I could understand the first one that you thought was an observer, but the next 2 was quite obvious 😂🤷♂️
Yup, fair enough. :)
Tanks and bikes.. And such
Fucking legends....miss the times of SCBW