Comparing NYC and Seattle (Public Transit)
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- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
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Seattle and New York look very similar on paper when it comes to public transit infrastructure. They both have city trains (New York Subway, Seattle LINK), buses, ferries, commuter rails, and micromobility options. But as cities, these two differ in many ways. For one thing, NYC is 11x the population of Seattle. That alone changes public transit dynamics. On top of that, users and cultures of users also set them apart. Learn more in this video and don't forget to like and subscribe!
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Small correction, Seattles inner city has 700,000. Metro area is about 4 million. But that’s not saying much because NYC has a metro if about 20 million 😅
Being 63, I remember the 1970s when the NYC subway was VERY dirty and constantly late and breaking down. That was during the city’s fiscal crisis. There are still problems but the system has greatly improved.
Isn’t that sad that this is an IMPROVEMENT?
@@JimAllen-Personafor the amount of service it offers and given it’s age the MTA has done a great job but I agree we need more improvements. Hopefully with the new congestion pricing and the CBTC rollout we will I’ll get better service and hopefully new modern stations. They are already installing platform screen doors in some stations. The need to bring back the Enhanced station initiative to though.
I remember the graffiti trains too. The city was pretty much bankrupt then.
Seattle resident here 🙋♀️ This was a great overview of the two different systems, and I’m really proud of how far Seattle has come, even in the past decade. The ORCA readers are going to be able to accept credit cards later this year, after a multi-year program to get the 2005-era readers replaced. Also, the ferries do accept ORCA but only for walk-on passengers, not for the vehicles. I suppose they don’t want you paying $60 off your transit balance 😅. Also, yes the trains really are that clean most of the time! There are exceptions, but I’ve heard that they clean the trains every night when they go back to the yard. Unlike New York, trains don’t run 24/7 so they have time to give them a once-over every evening.
Also, the reason we use proof-of-payment is because the rail system is not watertight and fare evaders could walk on the tracks at some stations to get around theoretical turnstiles. They don’t want that so we use proof-of-payment instead, with fare checkers roving the system, similar to the SBS system in NYC.
This is how it is in Colorado too! No Turnstiles!
with the number of stations on link now i really wish there were express trains
It's important to remember that Seattle is a much younger city than New York, thus has a younger infrastructure. Usually, cities like modern Atlanta, Houston, New Orleans, Phoenix, etc, have much newer and smaller systems.
I work with transportation agencies in Washington. We are really making big strides to better our public transportations and improving our multimodal network throughout the state.
Other public transportation options not mentioned here is Stride Bus Rapid Transit (bus service, connecting to light rail and to communities north, east and south of Lake Washington) Water Taxi/Foot Ferry, and Via ride share (connecting people on their first and last mile trip to link light rail stations).
As for the card reader machines, they used to be in the platforms as well. But Sound transit recently removed them and placed them before you enter the station, or before entering the platform. They are slowly introducing large yellow signs and textured floor to remind riders to tap on/off.
Fun fact: the firm I work for redesigned the ORCA pass website. Glad you found it easy and intuitive to use!
Thank you for your service! :)
Westlake and International District/Chinatown are typically the least clean stations - they were built as part of a bus tunnel in the 90s, so they’re definitely showing their age! But most of our stations are really cute and fairly clean here :)
I have been looking forward to this one! I’ve been in Seattle now since late 2019. Few notes:
1. Washington State Ferries DOES accept the Orca card! However, since the fares for WSF are more expensive, it is not going to be covered under most daily or monthly unlimited passes. They do have their own monthly or multi-ride passes though which can be loaded onto your Orca card, or you can use e-purse to pay the single trip fare.
2. It’s actually a recent change that the downtown tunnel LINK stops don’t have Orca readers at the platforms, they have been removed over the last few weeks with the intention that the platform is a fare paid zone where you are expected to already have paid.
3. Some King County Metro buses do have fabric upholstered seats! All the newer ones have vinyl, and many of the trolley buses have been updated to vinyl, but I am sitting on an older bus now with fabric seats. Being from Philly, I was similarly shocked due to sanitary concerns/concerns about bed bugs, but so far I haven’t been in any gross situations
Great video as always, I love seeing outsider perspectives on my city!
3:50 fwiw, Sound Transit is mostly a capital agency that then contracts with others to operate what they own.
Link Light Rail is operated by King County Metro.
Sounder is operated by BNSF.
ST Express busses are operated by King County Metro, Pierce Transit, or Community Transit. Generally following county borders, but the 560 is completely in King County, but operated by Pierce Transit.
Tacoma Link is operated by Sound Transit.
Having lived in NYC and Washington State, I have to say I love this video. I'm a big fan of public transportation. I currently live about 75 minute drive south of Seattle in Olympia WA (the state capital). The transit system here is great as well (it even won a award for a small city transit or something). But in the beginning of 2019, all local and express buses are free. The reason is to get folks to drive less. They use to have an express bus to Seattle but now you take one express bus to Tacoma and another express bus to Seattle or take the Sounder Express train. We also have Amtrack and Bolt/Grayhound to get to Seattle too.
You got lucky with those real-time screens being correct, they break almost every time I ride
Great comparison video! I can't speak much on the MTA, but as someone who's relied on nothing but Seattle transit for the past 2 years, I have some added details:
1:15 - There are 2 different express bus operators in Seattle. Sound Transit (ST) and Community Transit. Community Transit serves express routes to less traveled communities in Snohomish county. Places like Stanwood, Marysville, etc. Community Transit is the only other branded bus you'll see in downtown besides King County Metro (KCM) and ST.
Another fun fact is that SoundTransit doesn't actually operate any services even though its branding is everywhere. Link is operated by King County Metro, Sounder is operated by BNSF, and the ST express routes are operated by the relevant agencies in the counties they serve. For example, ST express route 594 to Tacoma is operated by Pierce Transit, 550 to Bellevue by KCM, and 510 to Everett by Community Transit. SoundTransit's main job seems to be managing overhead (cleaning Link stations, running security, fare education, etc.) and developing new lines/schedules.
4:35 - WSDOT Ferries actually do take ORCA cards, but only for foot traffic. For example, if you walk into Coleman Dock, go past the ticket booth straight to the station and you'll see an ORCA reader.
6:00 - This is a fare gripe :p , ST has plans to make the ORCA readers more apparent when you enter a station. That's why you see that big yellow line here with readers on either side. This was a test station for that new system.
Overall very accurate comparison!
Did Seattle last February(meeting a friend for lunch). Impressed with the public transportation. Also nice to have a rail connection from the airport to downtown. Also the buses were fairly timely.
Just a quick correction: Seattle’s metropolitan area is 4 million! 700k is just within city limits.
NYC city limits are 8 million but the metro area is 19!
i lived in seattle my whole life and it’s just now been getting better in terms of transit. short distances via buses are actually super great here but the light rail has a new platform built every few years
Fun fact, DC’s metro system has upholstered seats too
Seattle is on the right track but there is a lot to do to complete a well rounded and efficient Link system alone.
this a great comparison! I grew up in seattle and live in queens and I'm convinced if the puget sound systems and NYC metro systems could merge it would be the perfect transit system
Link is completing their Lynnwood extension on estimated November 2024
August 30th
If you drop your phone in the tracks, that phone belongs to the tracks.
Love her voice. I can hear her talk all day
When are you going to compare San Francisco Bay Area BART and New York City? Please, do a video like that!
Actually a better composition would be to include all the Bay Area transit services (Muni, ACTransit, CalTrain, ...).
@@andre0baskin Actually, it is a good idea. Just that an SF Bay Area transit vs a NYC Metro Area transit would also need to include all MTA (subway, bus, Metro North, Long Islan Railroad), PATH, and NJ Transit. That is going to be a good comparison!
You probably took the M train. Sometimes it runs units from the L. Pretty rare for it to happen
For the amount of service it offers and given it’s age the MTA has done a great job but I agree we need more improvements. We have come a far way from the dilapidated state of the late 80s and 90s. Hopefully with the new congestion pricing and the CBTC rollout we will get better service and hopefully new modern stations. They are already installing platform screen doors in some stations. The need to bring back the Enhanced station initiative to though.
Thea: I'm not doing a dive into payment systems...
Thea: Dives into payment systems... :-)
You posted about how the MTA is coming out with it's own payment systems. They need an EZPass equivalent...which I guess should have been OMNY. I wonder how much they make in people that don't even bother to pay on the way out. In DC, you can't leave the station unless you pay. Personally, I'm not linking a debit card to anything tied to the MTA. People in Seattle apparently trust their government.
You also forgot: New trains also have working A/C.
Q: Is the subway in Seattle a light rail system? From your videos it looks like it.
Seattle's System is a Light Rail system, not a subway system.
Seattle metro has 4mil+. Seattle proper is almost 800k.
AYYYY I just watched the fare evasion video!!! What a banger!!
Seattle has a very different culture. People care a lot about public transit and are proud of it. As a growing city and tech hub you also find a lot of youth passionate about public transit in Seattle. Thus the Stations and the cars themselves are very clean and well maintained and up to the latest global standards. Also as for the fare many cities like Portland, Salt Lake, Seattle are testing out free public transit with a slight tax increase which most people are fine with given the excellent quality of service these cities offer. Ofc NYC is gigantic and they need fare revenue to operate but many cities in Europe especially in the Nordic countries are also experimenting with free public transit.
Interesting note about fare revenue, for Sound Transit at least, their budget composition is vastly different from MTA's budget. MTA's 2023 budget is composed of 24% fare revenue and 37% tax revenue, whereas Sound Transit's 2023 budget is composed of 2% fare revenue and 85% tax revenue. If Sound Transit makes up that 2% fare revenue somewhere else, they could theoretically remove fares altogether without any real impact to the system.
I just bought a Orca Card Even though I don't live in Seattle lol. Love Your Vids! Keep Up The Great Work!
The new design is pretty cool ;)
what about the beaches?
You made me laugh about the old squawk boxes on the old MTA trains. I could never understand the conductor. He might as well said, "we're gonna make another stop. Hold on. Watch for hosing snores!" Dong Dong.
I’ve been to Seattle twice and rode the Link and the King County Buses both trips and it was an excellent experience. I wouldn’t have thought to compare Seattle’s Transit system with NY’s but the comparisons are quite interesting. NYC’s Transit gets a bad wrap and i don’t think it’s as bad as many make it out to be, especially having been around when it was truly horrible in the 1980’s, but I’m glad that we are improving steadily and I am optimistic things will keep on getting better for the MTA.
Great video & I’m looking forward to the next one!
The gripe about the seats is very real. The upholstered fabric is and was a terrible idea, hard plastic, metal, upholstered vinyl are all better options. I cant count how many times I've went to sit on the Link and opted to stand because of the worrying stain pattern and or smell coming from a seat or row of seats. The scent of fentanyl smoke and urine are unbelievably common on buses and trains ask anyone who rides transit daily in the Puget Sound.
despite this the seattle link is consistent and a good option for travel North and South along Seattle's midline, however until more stations are added (and theyre coming soon!) the bus is more consistent.
@4:24 Wa does accept orca card
it just unlimited pass does not work in ferry, you have to have balance
I took the San Francisco/Oakland subway system for the first time this year. I used it as my main form of transportation for a few days while on vacation. I was shocked by how bad the signage was across the system. The subway carts don't identify which line they are on, and lines share tracks. So it's very easy to get on the wrong line by accident. Also, in my experience the trains ran less frequently and were late more often than the NYC subway despite the overall subway system being a lot smaller.
The old BART trains do have destinations mention on the front of train and signage on platform, just not next to the doors. The new trains do, and have electronic maps inside the train, which solves the confusion by most riders. BART trains do run less frequent and often runs late but it’s a regional rail more than a subway. One hour of BART ride will get longer distance than one hour of NYC subway ride.
@ac3115 BART is actually an S-Bahn or Regional Metro. In suburbs, trains run less frequently, but in the city center (in this case, Oakland and San Francisco) run almost at subway frequenckes. Now, new trains are the norn, and these trains have modern features and designs. Also, the issue with BART is that all lines are interlined with each other, meaning that a problem that arises at One station will impact train schedules throughout the system. By the way, the trains you saw were made in the 70s, so they were 50 years old. That is why there were no modern features like internal and external signage
I was in Seattle recently and I asked my friends their thoughts on public transit. I’ve heard good things about Seattle’s transit, and coming from Vancouver, I was curious what it was like. Though I didn’t ride it, I was told that transit was only good downtown. Since some suburbs (Tacoma etc.) has busses operated by a different agency, it just seems hard to connect. In Vancouver, the whole metro area is all run by one agency, making connections really easy. I wish Seattle had that too
seattle kinda has that with sound transit
Tacoma isn't a "suburb" though, it's a completely different city. Having one agency in charge would make it simpler, but I'm sure there''s also major cons. Interagency collaborations are definitely addressing the issues of public trnasportation in the suburbs by providing more frequent and reliable transit. And that's part of the challenge. WA is a huge state. Frequency and reliability means different depending on where you are. If you live in downtown core Seattle, frequency would be 8 minutes or less. In the suburbs, that would be costly and inefficient. Most people would say every 25 minutes is frequent. Our company helped WSDOT conduct this study :)
In defense of New York, I would say that, while filth on tracks and platforms is an issue, it’s not everywhere; there are stations that are consistently clean. Also, your story about seeing the data from the L line on the #4 train cannot be true because these line use different rolling stock, and an L train won’t even fit into a 4/5/6 station. Though showing a wrong line on a train within the same group of lines is something that does happen sometimes.
As for Seattle, though I hadn’t been there yet, you missed mentioning a worthy treasure that only a handful of US cities have: the trolleybuses.
This was a interesting video and I think both systems can learn from each other, In terms of geography Seattle and New York and there respective states as a whole WA/NY look nothing like each other yet share so many similarities, the way the biggest metro area is separated from the rest of the state and the way the cities and coastline flirt with islands I would say Seattle definitely reminds me of New York. 😁
WSF definitely accepts ORCA Card payments...
The Washington State Ferry does take the ORCA and has done so for at least ten years. You have to go through the ticket booth however. There are no scanners for passengers to use.
13:38 I had this experience in Seattle when going into the city from the airport
Seattle trains are usually on time, but not ferries or buses *at all*. That was an anomaly
Seattle metro area has 3 million people. Seattle proper city population is 700000
Also, NYC metro area is 20M but that includes much of NJ Transit.
Thank you for all your NYC subway videos. I recently conquered the
NYC subway system and became a subway superhero.
am going to nyc for July 4th and live in Seattle now. Comparing NYC to Seattle transit should be fun!
how'd it go?
I visited NYC last summer ( also from Seattle) and the smell in the subway....is something I've never experienced before. LOL! I took the subway mostly uptown/downtown in Manhattan and would walk east or west. Super convenient! But yeah, after that experience, I told myself to never complain about how "dirty" link light rail is... it's so pristine compared to NYC trains!
What I say is this: NYC has the best transit in North America, despite our elected officials' best efforts.
It feels like the ppl managing the city and state want transit to fail, but keep failing at doing that. So we end up with pretty good transit that, paradoxically, sucks.
I’m subscribed ✋
Can you do a video on pissiors in the subway. Or restrooms in the subway system. 🙂
50% subbed is pretty high, i think hear other youtubers say they get ~10%
can you add chapter timestamps for short attention span people like me
and could you do a video analyzing crime and how to stay safe, it's probably what i worry most about when i go to (american) cities
How to stay safe? Be aware of your surroundings, be wary of anyone that gets into your personal space, try to be part of a group but avoid crowds. Stay out of shady areas. Yeah, there’s crime in the “safe” areas but if you stay aware of your surroundings you should be OK.
NYC gets a bad rap for crime but if you look at the stats:
The latest dangerous list by 2023, The top 10 most dangerous cities in the US are Memphis, Detroit, Little Rock, Pueblo, Tacoma, Kansas City, Rockford, St. Louis, Cleveland and Springfield.
Yes, some of it may have to do with the city cops not taking police reports but NY is pretty far down the list.
3:09 the one advantage D.C. has is that SmartTrip can be used on both WMATA (metrorail / metrorail parking, bus), most of the surrounding county bus systems, and part of the MD Transit Administration (buses, Baltimore light rail, subway). And CharmCard (issued in Baltimore) is, I believe, accepted where SmarTrip is (in other words, full reciprocity)
14:41 knock on wood, MTR of Hong Kong! Kowloon population density is over 43K / sq km, compared to Manhattan at just under 29K / sq km
I was in Seattle not too long ago they did accept the Orca sard for the WA Ferry. I'm not sure if all of them accept it but at least the ones in Seattle do.
*forgot to pay? You sure you weren’t just being one of those opportunists you described in your fare evasion vid? 😉
Washington State Ferry and NYC Ferry are very different. WA State Ferries play a part of the Highway system, they are the “bridges” to fill in the gaps. NYC Ferries are meant to avoid the traffic and subway crowds. It wasn’t until Hurricane Sandy for NYC to realize the potential of ferry services (correct me if I am wrong about this). The Rockaway Ferry does feel more comfortable than the A subway. During my last visit, without luggage, once landed in JFK, I made my way to the Rockaway first, then take the ferry to Manhattan.
Interesting fact about the ORCA Card, it's also accepted on the Amtrak Cascades between Seattle and Everett through the RailPlus program, with quite a few restrictions though.
While the city of Seattle is 700k, the metro area that sound transit services is actually a little 4 million people. NYC is way more dwnse though
Im originally from the seattle area and one thing ive always been jealous of in new york is that sweet 24 hour service. Even though where i live now is around the same size as nyc (seoul), we only have a mediocre night bus system... Even a train an hour would be nice
The ferries also accept an Orca card as payment, however they annoyingly don’t offer transfers. You can also take a Water Taxi to West Seattle or Vashon which is a King County Metro run service, they take Orca cards normally and offer transfer (which is amazing if you commuting from Vashon)
Who support NYC Light Rail interborough express over heavy rail? This is very unsafe for New Yorker in subway stations fill with rats and messy indoor subway cars.
The R46 subway trains are the oldest on the system being built by Pullman Standard from 1975 til 1978.
2:02 no nation has put in place an MRT (mass rapid transit in a city with a population of under 1 million) but a medium-sized city can build an LRT ( light rapid transit )
3:18 Aerial tramway
3:57 in the world the they are all under one unity ministry of transport.
the central government regulates: airports, seaports, railway, commuter reil , toll roads and national roads.
[state washington] The provincial government only regulates provincial roads , inter-city buses and bus terminal
[Seattle city] the city or local government manages all the bus, tram ,local ferry , metro bike paths and sidewalks.
5:48 in china you can pay for public transport just showing your face or palms in faregate.
12:15 when other countries use trains Up to 40 years old and still working fine. on the new York subway even new trains can't last more than 10 years and will look old fast
13:01 in Hongkong is always on time.
In Moskow the next train allways 60-90 second.
Someone gave me a poop knife whilst I was in Seattle and I thought that was really kind of the gentleman.
Sorry if this has already been said, but another correction is that the state ferry system actually does accept orca cards as payment. The monthly passes are separate, but either can be loaded onto an orca card along with cash balance.
Guess the smaller the city the nicer it is eh?
we have to make a comparison of the 4 big powers: new York subway 🇺🇸 vs London underground 🇬🇧 vs Moscow metro 🇷🇺 vs sanghai metro 🇨🇳
Thank goodness NYC is finally moving towards platform doors!!!
Now we need the Canadian version… Toronto vs Vancouver
I've never been to Seattle, but I would bet that it's still a car centric city where public transportation can't get you to many places you need; so eventually you would still need a car. Just like the case of LA.
When I lived in NYC for almost 10 years, I had never felt the need to buy a car. The system may be old, slow, disgusting, etc, yet I was still able to get anywhere I wanted just using the transit system. Then, just crossing the GW bridge to NJ was a shocker, to see how car centric it was with limited choices, even with some buses and trains. And when I moved to LA I was excited to see what it looked like a nice system, only to be let down with a super inefficient system, being forced to buy a car after all. Sad.
Nope, you can defintely get to place without a car in Seattle, even hiking! There are buses that would take you to trails. LA is the definition of a car-centric city unfortunately...
I got through college in Seattle without a car (even the year where I commuted from Snohomish). I lived in Ballard for 3 years without a car. And now I'm living in Everett and commuting in, still with no car.
The only times you really need a car are on the east side of Lake Washington. Redmond and Sammamish for instance, have terrible transit. But I can usually get a ride from a friend or family member when I go over there.
The ferry does accept the orca card though!
PATH needs to start doing omny because I'm tired of reloading my metro card just for that system.
Yeah the fabric seats have got to go 🤮
You're not gonna get drunk people vomit at the Link because it does not work overnight, which is a huge disappointment, specially at the airport because when that station closes the pedestrian crossbridge also crosses. Found that out the hard way years ago. 🙄
🥰🥰🤘👊
Seattle's public transportation is closer to Dallas than it is NYC. Extremely limited light rail and a Pre historic bus system.
I love the 75 footer, R46 and R68. Don't you every speak ill of them again.
Old trains deserve rest. They've worked hard
Will you take advantage for free Bee-Line Bus Ride?