InstantVap Oxalic Acid Vaporizer. Interview with Janos Fenyosy, A Higher Dose may not perform better
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- čas přidán 8. 11. 2022
- InstantVap Cordless Battery Powered Oxalic Acid Vaporizer
Welcome to another interview session in my series of interviews with experts.
In this video, Janos Fenyosy talks in detail regarding the InstantVap 18 V battery-powered Oxalic Acid Sublimation unit.
This is a two-part interview, finishing with a slide-show presentation which begins at 58 minutes. Janos explains how temperature variations may be negatively impacting the vapor that is produced during sublimation.
This interview and the topics discussed should be considered opinions, and you are encouraged to do further reading.
My opinion is that the InstantVap offers the most convenience, and best quality of materials in a very well-thought-out design. The ability to do all of your hives no matter where they are located, on a single battery that you likely already own, is outstanding.
I've only used the InstantVap unit here for my own apiary. I introduce the OA through a 1/4" hole in the back of my hives, often through the slatted rack between slats.
You can purchase an InstantVap unit in the United States through
lorobbees.com/
Please tell them that Frederick Dunn sent you, though I am not personally compensated for sending you there.
For those in other countries, here is the main InstantVap website:
www.instantvap.eu/
If you locate a serious study regarding the degradation of OA during sublimation at various temperatures, please share the link in the comments section.
Please consider the information in this interview to be opinions that should be further validated.
Always follow approved methods and materials wherever you reside and tend honey bees.
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS: Below is a response to a question regarding the use of OA with or without brood breaks. This is the reply from Janos at InstantVap-
"InstantVap
Hi.
I did brood break this September for the first time.
In previous years I vaporized
- after acacia 7 times every 3 days early-middle June
- after sunflower (August) again 7 times every 3 days.
- in winter 2-3 times when they come out for cleaning flight.
But every year is somewhat different, some years the mite load is lower, and other times it is much harder to keep under control. Definitely, it needs to be monitored.
I do the queen cages this way:
Find the queen and put it inside the cage, close it, and put it between 2 brood frames.
- day 1: queen caging. It should be in autumn when the feeding for winter already finished, and only a couple of brood frames remained. In central Europe, we do it during September.
- day 16: first oxalic acid vaporization, by this time all the brood is capped. (once the supers are off, it is enough to treat them with a maximum of 2-3 grams of oxalic acid dehydrate per colony)
- day 22: the queen is let out of the cage. no caped brood is left, all the mites are on bees, no place to hide for them.
- day 23: 2nd OAV.
- day 27: 3rd OAV. Even if the queen started to lay eggs, no capped brood yet.
Some of the benefits of this method:
- a time period is created when there is no capped brood, so the mites can be all reached by OAV.
- There are 2 treatments of OAV when the mites have no place to hide. 2 times a very efficient treatment kills more than 95-98% of all the mites.
- Because there is a very low mite count to start with in spring, these colonies are usually enough to treat in august next time. A periodic check is necessary, as an infestation of mites can occur from outside through robbing, etc.
- the winter bee generation goes into a rest mode, as there is no brood, no reason to work. They remain strong for a start in spring.
- the winter bees are healthy, they go into winter without mites."
END QUOTE
Having seen the InstaVap in action, it really is a great unit. Janos put a ton of thought and research behind this great product. Great interview Fred, thank you for sharing. Watching on my lunch.
1 of your best informative videos yet Frederick 👌👍.
Thanks, Carl! I appreciate that :)
What a great interview. Thnx so much Fred and Janos. Love the Instantvap. Being a new beekeeper I have no prior experience with other units, but surely appreciate I do not have to do all the cords and inverter slugging! Was very nervous the first time I used it , but got it fired up and it performed perfectly. I did get the crystallization at my entrance and wondered what that was about....will tap the frames apart the next time. Thnx again Janos , for all your hard work and skill!
And thank you Janos, i think i bought the 323rd one sold in us by Rob, ordered it as soon as Kaymon did video on it, it works amazing, first time in 8yrs of working with bees that my bees pulled thru winter like champs after 3 OA treatments in fall.
Thank you Fred, once again very informative and so great to see actual beekeepers solving the temperature fluctuations by using 1st principals and heating the bottom and not the sides and was more concerned about safety. Great info on the purity / version of OA that is in use and in the "tar" left over and need to clean.
Yes, that was a surprise, but it makes perfect sense that the additives in OA can result in residue. I learned a thing or two in this interview :)
That was fascinating, thank you, Fred and Janos.
One thing which struck me instantly was the huge variation in temperature due to the thermal mass of the chamber, OA, and evaporative energy used, and the large degree of hysteresis from bulk switching the entire heating element on or off.
To explain why I found this surprising I need to give a little back story.
In February 2017 I gave up smoking after a 40-year habit. My Doctor and several Consultants in a number of specialisms (unfortunately, I suffer from several conditions which require regular attention) tell me that they can no longer tell I ever smoked, which I guess is very encouraging to any existing smokers considering if they can quit effectively and usefully after extended periods of reliance, and a credit to my "lucky" DNA.
The method I used to quit was vaping (I'd tried everything else over the years, unsuccessfully), and I chose right from the start to use a temperature-controlled vaping device rather than simply dialling in how many watts to apply to the heating coil. Since I'm fairly keen on DIY and something of an amateur science enthusiast I learned rather a lot about it, and there are plenty of circuits commercially available in quantity which vary the voltage to keep the temperature constant or by using very fast pulse width modulation, and measuring the temperature by continuously measuring the resistance of the heating coil, instead of by switching the power on and off with temperature sensing from a thermocouple.
Most metals rise at least a little in resistance as they heat up. You can choose a suitable metal depending on preference, the amount it changes with temperature (temperature coefficient of resistance - TCR), or availability. Nickel gives a satisfyingly high TCR, making control very easy and stable, but is not that easy to get as wire or perforated foil suitable for use in a resistance heating circuit. Additionally, some people have a (fairly mild) adverse reaction to even very faint traces of inhaled nickel vapour, and tiny amounts of the coil (nanograms over months, so nothing to panic over) do off-gas. Titanium has a moderate TCR but is expensive and harder to obtain.
Of most interest to us, thinking of OA vapourisation treatment, is stainless steel, ideally 316L formulation, which almost all temperature-control capable devices have a preset for. It is readily available in gauges of wire from about 10 AWG (2.6mm) to about 40 AWG (0.08mm), or even wider ranges from specialists, giving a wide range of resistances per cm. The TCR is relatively small, so really precise temperature measurement from that is more difficult and a little less precise, but quite adequate for our needs, I believe.
It is approved, preferred or even required for commercial food preparation equipment, so no problems there (frying food in most cooking oils gives higher temperatures, so it is definitely food safe). Most conveniently, small strips of perforated foil with a nominal resistance (at standard temperature and pressure, or 1 bar and 20deg C) of 0.15 Ohm are readily available and could be clamped to any electrically non-conductive surface to heat it. And the range of temperatures at which these devices operate is perfect for OA vapourisation!
I have one in my hand which delivers a stable temperature while varying power from 0 to 400w, just by varying the voltage, and it does not overshoot in either direction by more than five degrees Celsius (for the initial temperature overshoot, less than half of that thereafter), even using the relatively insensitive stainless steel 316L. Ever. It runs from a 4s Li-Ion battery, as used in drones and radio-controlled models, and has battery protection low voltage cutoff built-in, along with a range of other features like reverse polarity protection, overvoltage protection, short and open circuit protection, and others. it even does balanced charging through a micro-USB port at up to 5v 2.4A (12w), which is very good for the longevity of the LiPo packs. You can of course charge them faster outside the device, but the faster you charge or discharge them, the faster they age. You can set it to anywhere from 93-315deg C and it will, when activated, keep it there, using as much or as little of the 400w available to do so, taking well under a second to reach 210C from stone cold (with software, I can measure it - just - at just under 0.1s, but of course, any greater thermal mass would increase that). The only potential problem is that the duration of each individual application is limited to 20s, but I very much doubt if more than that per application would be necessary. Of course, since its intended use if for inhalation, the 20s is a safety limit, as very few people would want to be inhaling for longer than that, and so it serves to prevent accidental injury by pocket-firing the device. I'm certain that for a larger order the manufacturer could change that though - it is just a software setting. Mind you, with 400w on the job, I doubt if more than 20s would be necessary even for higher doses. Oh, and the circuit is over 95% efficient, so battery life should be fine, although it operates at a maximum input voltage of 4s Lipo (14-16.8v, nominal 14.8v) instead of 5s (17.5-21v, nominal 18.5v) as on the higher-powered packs for power tools.
I'll try to contact Janos with all this and maybe have a direct chat, as this appears o be right up his alley!
Great video, it's nice to be reminded that people outside of the US are doing great work toward figuring out and in fact pioneering to keep the honeybees save! Thank you for showing this Man's commitment to putting out a working product, his skills and outlook is second to none! I wasn't so sure what to think about the treatment till I saw this video, less is better, I like his approach for sure.
He's definitely on the correct path of figuring it all out. Thanks, Tommy :)
@@FrederickDunn I agree 100%, the world needs more engineers that are as forward thinking like he is!
I just ordered one based on your recommendation…really looking forward to trying it out! An early Christmas present to myself!
I can say that I am nothing but impressed with mine, and you deserve a nice gift, Roseanne :)
I just got mine and cant wait to use it looks solid!!!!!
thanks janos ,.and rob lorobee,and all your efforts, and mr dunn
Great interview
I bought one great tool , I live 30 kilometres from Budapest
That's great! Thanks for sharing.
The measured plunger is icing on the cake! Would love to see what his dad thinks of it. Great job. Those engineers are out there.
Great interview, I’m excited to get one!
I have one. It's amazing. Built like a tank. No more portable generators and dropcords.
Thank you for this one Fred and Janos. This was a great show as always.
Glad you enjoyed it
thank you ,nice to get more good science,and understanding, im waiting for my batteries,bees active on this warm day,theyre hunting water,my colonies w formic pro were less active,as i wait out the treatment ,this weekend will see 28°f,so ill be curious on the offgassing and efficacy of the four to 5 days out of a 14 day dose ,much learning right now,thanks for all you do helping us keep being effective w our bees
i love this vaporizer i seen kamon's video got one wright away. used it about 200 vape's . works very well, did not clog once. easy to fill, i use dewalt battery's all ready have, well built, fast to use would recommend !!! good interview fred , thank you.
Thanks for sharing!
He was encouraging us to use 2 g because of a better treatment and that more study is needed, is that what you got out of his data? My wife wants to buy me one at the hivelife conf because she sees that I need it to care for the bees and I can get it for 450 instead of the 495. Also I am looking forward to meeting you and some of the other CZcams beekeeping teachers. Thanks
Hi Joe, he's actually arrived at a 3 g dose if you have more than one brood box. The temperature parameters depending on the OAV unit you have can drop their temp significantly with a large dose, and they overheat in response. The result was a breakdown of the OA and a delivery of water, or a lower acid content vapor being introduced. Based on my discussions with Janos, the higher doses don't necessarily result in stronger mite control. Mine is set at 3 grams. I'm getting very good results. I'm glad LorrobBees will be selling them at Hive Life, I haven't heard anything bad about these units.
Great interview. Thanks Frederick.
You're welcome, thanks for watching!
What a great interview
Thank you
Thanks for listening
I bit the bullet and bought one of these vaporizers and oh my gosh I am amazed by how efficient, simple and easy to use it is. So fast. It’s actually fun to use!!!
I'm with you Bruce, I did all of my hives in a single afternoon. I did use two batteries though :)
@@FrederickDunn I bought 4 of the 6aH batteries so should be able to plow through 90-100 colonies without having to worry about recharging. I used 4 grams on the colonies. I heard what he said about the effectiveness of using 4g so might need to revisit the dosage.
Keep up with interviews this a great to show out of-box vdo
Got one last month, a great unit!
I agree :)
i give this company a sticker: Super! very pleased to see beekeepers going the depth of a honey bee temp on the design of a vaporizor.
fell asleep watching than watched again after waking up and he was still going 100 on the temperature very please to hear people go to the beginning of the universe just to calculate the cone to keep increase set to feel the warmth across a home particle accelurator aka cooper tube. he needs to use spectrium testing to get beyond a ph reading and he might get there when he looks up and wonders how we know the sun is made of hydrogen and than circle back to that tube and get the full anyalsis. he might even find the origins of life from a frequency that matches earth quakes and the temp required to turn an acid in to the ph of life 6.5 if he contacts a lipid with solution might get a jelly fish.
Fred great vdo i will get one ty
Ty you so much for. These vdo
Hello Frederick Dunn 🥰🥰🥰🥰
Super Beitrag mit Antworten auf zentrale Fragen
Vielen Dank fürs Zuschauen. Ich bin froh, dass Sie es hilfreich fanden. Ich wünsche Ihnen alles Gute.
@@FrederickDunn gibt es eine Übersetzung ins deutsche?
@@peterfalk7198 Nein, es tut mir leid zu sagen, dass ich keine deutsche Übersetzung für meine Videos habe.
@@FrederickDunn Danke für die Antwort, Gruss
At about 5:30 I thought he said "formic acid" but probably means oxalic? Very interesting interview, Fred. I have the corded Lorobbee tool, and my main problem is the nozzle clogging between hives if temps are low. I keep a 1/8" bit in my cordless drill, which quickly takes care of the clog.
Hi David, no, he meant formic acid as it's produced when you are subliminating OA when the parameters are off. This is an area that we need to know more about.
Yikes, this is the first I've heard of this.
@@davidhorsley4657 In this article, you can see photos of bees with formic acid crystals on them, and some more information for you scientificbeekeeping.com/oxalic-acid-heat-vaporization-and-other-methods-part-2-of-2-parts/
Interesting. I've never had that happen. Wondering what I/you are doing different.
I use Oxalika with the automatic tablet dispenser on top, cost me a lot with the import duty and a load of tablets cost me close to £1000 but the unit doesn’t work as well as their video. I have to have a drill to unblock the nozzle but also the tablet can become sticky and you have to stop and clean the whole thing out a good unit but disappointing. after using many different devices, I actually find it hard to believe any oxacid vaporiser doesn’t block up. Do these battery units that everybody’s talking about really not block up I find that hard to believe.
thank you so much very intresting
You are very welcome
Loved the interview, he said he strictly uses OA. I wonder if he does maintenance doses all year with brood in the hive or creates brood breaks or only treats late fall or winter when bloodless
Hi.
I did brood brake this September the first time.
Previous years I vaporized
- after acacia 7 times every 3 days early-middle June
- after sunflower (August) again 7 times every 3 days.
- in winter 2-3 times when they come out for cleaning flight.
But every year is somewhat different, some years the mite load is lower, other times it is much harder to keep under control. Definitely it needs to be monitored.
I do the queen cages this way:
Find the queen and put it inside the cage, close it, and put it between 2 brood frames.
- day 1: queen caging. It should be in autumn, when the feeding for winter already finished, only a couple of brood frames remained. In central Europe we do it during September.
- day 16: first oxalic acid vaporization, by this time all the brood is capped. (once the supers are off, it is enough to treat them with maximum 2-3 grams of oxalic acid dehydrate per colony)
- day 22: queen is let out of the cage. no caped brood is left, all the mites are on bees, no place to hide for them.
- day 23: 2nd OAV.
- day 27: 3rd OAV. Even if the queen started to lay eggs, no capped brood yet.
Some of the benefits of this method:
- a time period is created when there is no capped brood, so the mites can be all reached by OAV.
- There are 2 treatments of OAV, when the mites has no place to hide. 2 times a very efficient treatment kills more than 95-98% of all the mites.
- Because there is a very low mite count to stat with in spring, these colonies are usually enough to treat in august next time. Periodic check is necessary, as infestation of mites can occur from outside through robbing, etc.
- the winter bee generation goes into a rest mode, as there is no brood, no reason to work. They remain strong for a start in spring.
- the winter bees are healthy, they go into winter without mites.
This is a fantstic reply, I will repost it in the description. Thank you, Janos!
Might be quite easy to measure the outflow of gasses lime carbon momoxide with LEL measurement devices . Decomposition gives huge volume expansion ,so when decompose there will be a flow at the end of the copper pipe used .
I hope we can get someone to sample those gasses and provide some analytics. It would be very interesting.
Hi Fred, I would think that Dr. Sealy or your young High School Student could take up the project of identifying efficacy at various temperatures using standard lab analytics that can identify OA, Formica Ac., and other compounds that come off at each temperature…
Spectroscopy…Mass, IR, & NMR are examples of analytical techniques I was thinking of.
Dr. Seeley has retired :(
I use 1g per box... has worked great...
Thanks for sharing
Be sure to look up the dealer in your state for this vaporizer if you're looking to get one.
Are they selling from various suppliers now? Good to know. :) Lorrobees is likely the middle man if that is the case.
@FrederickDunn lorobees has the us dealership and he has local dealers in about every state.
First let me say I think this vaporizer is great.
Api-Bioxal was originally created in Europe to be used in vaporizers that had a self feed system, I believe Italy. I don't know if these still exist with all the progress that has been made with vaporizers. It is a finer powder that "flows". It would fall out of the plunger on this unit though. It uses 3 excipients to make it "flow". All 3 passed requirements of the USDA and EPA to be used on honeybees. It does leave a sticky residue in all vaporizers.
The USDA did originally own the Oxalic Acid registration. The USDA granted distributorship to API-BIOXAL and Brushy Mountain Bee Co. The EPA signed off on these distributorships and I'm sure these companies jumped through hoops and money to get this done. Brushy Mountain went out of business and left only Api-Bioxal to be the only legal Oxalic Acid available to us. In Dec. 2022, the USDA turned the ownership of the registration of Oxalic Acid over to Api-Bioxal's (Parent Co.) My Tablets have been at the EPA for registration since early last fall. A 13 month costly ordeal. The "binder" in my tablet is completely inert and already approved by the EPA. My tablets leave no residue.
The comments about tableting "pressing the water out of the oxalic acid" makes no sense at all. It does not happen. Also you cannot make a tablet of Oxalic Acid in a tablet machine without an excipient(binder). If you could, I would. My tablets are within 2 seconds as fast as powder when vaporizing, not 20-30% more time as he stated.
Oxalic Acid Dihydrate is approximately 25% water, just as my tablets are. In research I tried Oxalic Acid Anhydrous which doesn't have the water. Randy Oliver told me I would only have to use 75% of it to equal a like amount of Dihydrate if I went that route. Turns out the the OA Dihydrate forms a better tablet and vaporizes more readily. You must always read the label on your OA you buy online as I noticed many sellers sell the anhydrous type of OA.
I would also like to say many sellers of OA, including Florida Labs, would not give me a Certificate of Analysis for their Oxalic Acid. For registration, the EPA required 5 of these certificates from each supplier I might use to make my tablet. I asked my consultant why companies might refuse to supply these certificates of analysis as many did. His response was they are hiding something. Most oxalic acid sold in USA (none is made in USA) is used for industrial cleaning or dyeing. 99% of it doesn't require a certificate of analysis even though the manufacturer has to supply one when the big chemical distributors import to USA. Not only does the EPA want 5 of these, they want to know how the analysis was done on these certificates, step by step! Some of the COA's I did receive were very inadequate. This EPA requirement insures to us beekeepers the OA being used comes from manufacturers and distributors who monitor and properly record the analysis of their Oxalic Acid product.
Once my tablets are registered, I have to keep records of batches and what certificate of analysis is involved in the production. I have to send these records to the EPA on an annual basis. These certificates report the purity, heavy metal content among other things we would not want near our bees. My tablets cost a little more than powder but are easy to use and are premeasured. When they become registered you can be guaranteed it's pure per the label and meets the sourcing requirements of the EPA and USDA.
reliable
There are no harmful chemicals added to the OA in my tablets. I have treated my own bees with these tablets for 2 years.
Mr. Fenyosy's comments about tablets are either he just doesn't know, he is an electronic engineer and a good one, not a chemist or he feels they are competitive to his self measuring system. I don't know but I don't feel that way at all. His invention is a great vaporizer for those that can afford one.
I am the owner of Mikes Bees LLC, with the help of my Son and Grandson we make EZ-OX Tablets. Shakenbake 68-69 refers to a school I attended before going to Vietnam as a 20 year old Army Infantry NCO in 1968. I am a 100% Combat Disabled Vet and I have 21 hives of bees. I have been a beekeeper for 10 years or so. EZ-OX Tablets will hopefully be available in the fall of 2023 if not sooner.
Thank you for your service!
@@FrederickDunn Thank you Fred.
There must be another Mike's Bees in Ohio! I've been talking to the wrong guy. Anyway, I highly suggest that you reach out to Dr. Peck at BetterBee since you are putting so much working into getting your EZ OX tablets approved. They move huge amounts of treatment products through their site. I just think you need more exposure on those tablets.
@@mikesbeesllc Absolutely :)
@@FrederickDunn My Tablets cannot be sold yet as I am awaiting the EPA registration process to play out.
Good to know if you over heat OA, you could be making formic acid and killing your queens or causing them damage, I'm still using tripled dosage OAE sponges, and with good results, time will tell if I'm hurting my bees, all my double deeps had it on for more than 90 days.
Even more informative to me, was the lower final dose the bees were receiving when temps rise and the dose was too high. We have a lot to learn here.
ILLEGAL!!!!!
1 to 2 grams is the legal dosage for Oxalic Acid Vaporization depending on which state you are in, the problem with that is noone is using these amounts and the instavap comes with a upto 4 gram adjustable dispenser.
Hi Fred hope you are well. As you know we have the mites here in Australia now. I would like to know if you remove your honey supers when you are going to use oxalic acid vapour treatment for the mite control?
We still don’t have much direction here about treatment so I am gearing up to use oxalic acid.
Thanks.
David Love.
We don't remove honey supers when using OAV. It's been proven not to significantly alter the presence of OA in honey before or after the treatment cycles. So, our FDA approves it. That's good news as you don't have to take anything apart to give that vapor treatment.
Great video He said he only used OA for his treatments and that he has had no loss since he started doing this How often does he treat Fred how do u treat O A is cheep I use mite away in june when I remove the honey suppers, then apivair strips, july for the late treatment, I dont want a brood break they need to build up for the winter we have dearth from june to oct but not much come in so I am feeding from the time I take my suppers until winter when I put the candy sugar on top. They cost alot, I use Oav now treat every other week going in to dec there is no brood break till maybe in late dec because I now have that wonderful vap that he made it is set on 445 and does wonderful best tool I have ever had it is great. I have 30 hives I hope all that makes since thanks again for the video O 1 more question what was that battery that u use u are able to treat all your hive with just 1 I want to get 1 for my self I have 4 small ones that do not last long at all thanks
I also only have used OA for my miticide. I've had Formic Pro on the shelf ready to go IF the OA doesn't get mites down. The formic pro just expired unused. You had a different management practice than I do, I don't feed them at all unless they are a split, package, or small swarm. I leave them to rise and reduce with any dearth through the year. When it comes to early spring, or fall after honey is removed, weaker colonies can have a boost, but I tend to only open feed. This way, I find out which colonies are capable of subsisting on forage and their numbers are in sync with the environment.
@@FrederickDunn If u only use oa how do u do your treatment how often oh yea what size is the battery u use for the vap thanks
Ha Fred the open feeding sounds good and I tryed it for 2 years but we have to many bee keepers around and I do not know if they treat or not I was feeding there bees and mine it cost me a hole lot more to open feed as well I feed each one of my hives now so far I have used 1500 lb sugar in doing it this way I know they have food they down it in less then a week they keep rearing me brood so they are strong for the winter plus they draw comb for me. I use 2 gal buckets and have frame feeders as well, When I first started bee keeping I did not feed I did not know u was expost to and the hives went into winter with small clusters because we have a long dearth just because I am in a city and they came out dead in the spring or just to small to make me honey in the spring. where I live is not like your beautiful place there is no fields of nothing here just houses and some trees our flow is starts April is in full May and is over in June I am removing the suppers on fathers day and that is the hole flow. There is nothing else here that produces much of any thing for the bees. I watched Kamon and Bob Binnie on the feeding splitting and stabilizing the hives. Because I did it this way I got the most honey I have ever gotten I got 25 gal it was wonderful and it was because they went into the winter strong I gave them pollen patties in February and hive alive in March as well they came out strong I probably should had gotten more but I had some swarms because I tried a different spring management as well keeping them way to strong. trying to hold them for the flow by splitting up the brood instead of splinting them, removing them, so not doing it that way next year will equilize the hives and do splits I am really looking forward to spring just trying new ways to build them up and hole on to them with out swarming it is great well I have talked to much and I have confused u for sure I do not explain very well so I hope u understood what I was saying.. thanks for the video it was great.. and I am enjoying my vap please explain what and how u do your mite will it work with my management my hives are never broodless
Hi.
I did brood brake this September the first time.
Previous years I vaporized
- after acacia 7 times every 3 days early-middle June
- after sunflower (August) again 7 times every 3 days.
- in winter 2-3 times when they come out for cleaning flight.
But every year is somewhat different, some years the mite load is lower, other times it is much harder to keep under control. Definitely it needs to be monitored.
I do the queen cages this way:
Find the queen and put it inside the cage, close it, and put it between 2 brood frames.
- day 1: queen caging. It should be in autumn, when the feeding for winter already finished, only a couple of brood frames remained. In central Europe we do it during September.
- day 16: first oxalic acid vaporization, by this time all the brood is capped. (once the supers are off, it is enough to treat them with maximum 2-3 grams of oxalic acid dehydrate per colony)
- day 22: queen is let out of the cage. no caped brood is left, all the mites are on bees, no place to hide for them.
- day 23: 2nd OAV.
- day 27: 3rd OAV. Even if the queen started to lay eggs, no capped brood yet.
Some of the benefits of this method:
- a time period is created when there is no capped brood, so the mites can be all reached by OAV.
- There are 2 treatments of OAV, when the mites has no place to hide. 2 times a very efficient treatment kills more than 95-98% of all the mites.
- Because there is a very low mite count to stat with in spring, these colonies are usually enough to treat in august next time. Periodic check is necessary, as infestation of mites can occur from outside through robbing, etc.
- the winter bee generation goes into a rest mode, as there is no brood, no reason to work. They remain strong for a start in spring.
- the winter bees are healthy, they go into winter without mites.
@@instantvap5808 this is great thanks
and your vape is wonderful I Love it.
Very interesting! I wonder if it would be better to do 2 g and another 2 g rather than 4 g at once? Everyone seems to be jumping on the 4 g bandwagon. Glenn
I think Janos made it pretty clear that a 4 gram dose is not only not as effective, but can actually reduce the amount of OA that reaches the hive/bees. He's setting his benchmark for treatment at 3 grams.
It is definitively better to apply it separatly, because the 4 g dose quickly reduces the heat. I am doing it that way 2g then 2g again.
Fred I have received info from the people looking and checking about the mites here in Queensland.
Got this notice this week. Can you tell me what type of mite we have here in our port hives.
There are 2 species of varroa mite: Varroa destructor and Varroa jacobsoni.
We have the Varroa jacobsoni. What does this mean for us here?
Lost as to what we have to do😳
Thanks Fred.
David. Brisbane Australia.
That's actually great news! Although, I'm surprised that it's jacobsoni?
Varroa Destructor and Varroa Jacobsoni are both parasitic mites that infect honey bees, but they have some key differences:
Species: While previously considered the same species, genetic analysis has shown them to be distinct (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37778563/).
Host: Varroa Destructor is a major threat to European honey bees (Apis mellifera) and can cause colony collapse disorder.
Varroa Jacobsoni primarily infects Asian honey bees (Apis cerana) and appears to have a less detrimental effect (www.business.qld.gov.au/industries/farms-fishing-forestry/agriculture/biosecurity/animals/invasive/prohibited/varroa-mite).
Distribution: Varroa Destructor is widespread across the globe where European honey bees are kept. Varroa Jacobsoni is mainly found in Asia (www.business.qld.gov.au/industries/farms-fishing-forestry/agriculture/biosecurity/animals/invasive/prohibited/varroa-mite).
Size and Shape: Varroa Destructor is slightly larger and less round than Varroa Jacobsoni, but this difference is subtle (www.researchgate.net/publication/291954594_Towards_integrated_control_of_varroa_2comparing_application_methods_and_doses_of_oxalic_acid_on_the_mortality_of_phoretic_Varroa_destructor_mites_and_their_honey_bee_hosts).
In short:
Varroa Destructor wreaks havoc on European honey bees, while Varroa Jacobsoni seems to coexist more peacefully with Asian honey bees.
Varroa Destructor is the one beekeepers around the world fear, while Varroa Jacobsoni is less of a global threat.
The good news is that OAV, for example, will work on both.
I use a Oxalika with the automatic tablet dispenser on top cost me a lot with import duty and a load of tablets close to £1000 but the unit doesn’t work as well as there video. I have a drill to unblock the nozzle but also the tablets can become sticky and you have to stop and clean the whole thing out a good unit but disappointing after using many different devices I find it hard to believe any oxalic vaporiser doesn’t block up. Do these battery units that every body is talking about really not block up I find that hard to believe.
Mine has not been blocked at all, but neither did my prior unit that was a ProVap. Not sure why yours would be getting clogged.
First!!!
Frederick a quick question --- I purchased a Instavap and need direction on the purchase of Oxalic acid Man lake sells Api-Bioxal as the " Approved Oxalic acid for bees. I can find many suppliers for OA some expensive some not so much how do I determine the correct supplier ??? is Mann lake the best supplier for this product???
BetterBee Also sells it. you can get it anywhere that it's properly labled as a miticide. BUT, I'm interested in that Janos had to say here about needing to clean the bowl more often with the certified OA.
@@FrederickDunn I would like to know his thoughts on this , thank you
We just purchased one. really no operating instruction so i think i heard that a 2g dose for 2 boxes of bees is suggested. and the proper temp is 445f correct?
He demonstrates the proper temp settings/ranges in this video. The dose will be on the Api-Bioxal package, or listed on the site that sells it to you.
Great unit, practical - but expensive.
Definitely expensive. But I was happy to support someone who did such a great job working out the materials and parameters. If someone doesn't already have the tool batteries, it's way up there.
Ha Fred I watched this again did not quite get it was told research says 1 gram per box does not work need 2 grams per box, so I have been using 4 grams is he saying that it sould be 2 grams that 4 grams drops the eficiency and does not work because of the temp drop thanks
Hello
What I was trying to say is that the behaviour of the vaporizer tool (how much the temperature drops with the addition of oxalic acid, how it maintains the temperature when the outside temperature is lower or windy) has a big influence on how much oxalic acid comes out of the tool, how much degrades in the tool already.
There are many types of vaporizers on the market, most of them are clamp heated and the temperature drop is significant, so they are inherently inefficient. If a larger amount of oxalic acid (e.g. 4g) is added into them, the temperature drop is even greater and the efficiency even worse. Overall, you may only get 20-30% more oxalic acid if you double the input amount. This should be better investigated and taken into account when treating. I hope it make sense.
Also, with this knowledge better vaporizers should be designed.
HI Frances, please link the actual research that supports 4 grams? I cannot "legally" endorse dosing or methods that are outside labeling or approved materials/equipment. But it's clear in Janos' presentation, that higher dosing at 4 grams can result in a much lower actual OA delivery to the hive/brood/bees. His personal sweet spot was 3 grams with his large hives. Temperature controls, based on his presentation and testing are critical if you want a "good dose" of OA to reach the targeted area. His system is part of the potency, as shown in his charts, the 2 g dose is delivered fast and at the correct temperature that will not degrade the OA. As mentioned here, it's an area that is in need of further evaulation. The real result for you would be what your mite-counts were before treatment, and then after treatment. If the mite load isn't significantly dropping, then something has to be evaluated further. I achieve good gontrol with 2 g dosing with two hive boxes. 1 g for my nucleus hives if they are singles, 2g for my nucleus 3-stack hives. Controlled delivery at a fast rate would be beneficial.
@@instantvap5808 Thanks
@@FrederickDunn Thanks
@@framcesmoore you are always welcome :)
I think that it is a shame that the experiment to measure the OS started at 200C and not at 157 C.
Can It be that OS "sublimation" as we are doing it is in fact Formic acid sublimation? In China there are already using Formic acid vaporisation.
Lots of opportunity for further testing and evaluation. The doors on discovery should never be closed.
I use petrolium jelly. none toxic and is ok with high heat. and cheap. you can get at any store.
What do you mean, you use petrolium jelly? For what? And how?
I use it to grease the rubber ring on top of the plumger to make it easier to push in and out. a light coating. It says to lubricate. and petroleum jelly is used for most plumbing, mechanical and electrical parts that need some grease to keep them lubricated. FYI anything that comes with a little packet of grease is more than likely petroleum jelly@@FrederickDunn
does this compare to Lorobee new vap?
LorrobBee is selling these, in my opinion, this is the best designed Vap unit I can find at any price. It's beyond the portability aspect, it's about temp control and complete delivery of the OA in a short amount of time. Even with the battery, it out-performs my other units including the ProVap 110 unit.
@@FrederickDunn absolutely. I love mine!
Has anyone had any issue with tip clog at all?
Not with this unit so far, I did have that problem with the Lorrobees model, but not the InstantVap. As mentioned in this video, you can run some distilled water through it and the OA dissolves away as does the residue. But I only have 23 colonies. Have you had any clogging issues?
@@FrederickDunn I'm contemplating buying this vaporizer. I have other vaporizers where the tip clogs and it's something I no longer want to deal with. So before I invest in another big money sideliner model I want to know this one is gonna work! lol
No sound
That must be at your end?
Audio is fine on my end.
I greatly appreciate all your knowledge you share, you know alot about Gods bees, I haven't heard you give our creator credit for His amazing bee's so I was just wondering if you know Jesus, I'd hate to think you didn't & I didn't make sure your trust is in Him. You mentioned something about evilution on last q&a so I just wanted to check if you have your faith in Jesus:)
I don't beleive I ever mentioned or credited evolution. I do mention adaptation however. Just so you can find comfort, I was born again in 1976. I demonstrate my faith through my actions and the way I treat everyone I come in contact with. Thanks, Scott.
Praise the Lord, cause Jesus said "the way is straight and narrow and few find it", your knowledge and appreciation for God's creatures are truly inspirational, thank you