Etherfields Review - Almost a Sleeper Hit
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- čas přidán 8. 12. 2020
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Oh Christmas Tree by Kevin MacLeod incompetech.filmmusic.io/song... - Hry
Hey all! Quinns here. I'd like to reply to the folks who pointed out that you can, in fact, skip Slumbers, and that there are rules for it in the manual. I also saw some people asking if I had unlocked the "Deliverance" mechanic that lets you permanently remove Slumbers from the game.
Mea culpa: I did miss the rule about skipping encounters! I'm sure it was just one of several rules that I missed. However, on investigating my copy of the game I found that (a) only *some* Slumber encounters feature an option to skip them, and (b) the penalty you get for skipping combat encounters is *hellacious*. In the case of the first monster in the game, your deck permanently gains TWO flaw cards each time you skip it. So that's no good at all and it certainly doesn't change my review.
As for Deliverance, I did indeed unlock this feature of the game. However, Deliverance is not the panacea that I, too, hoped it would be when I unlocked it.
Deliverance gives you the option of fighting a lengthened, more painful battle with a creature to try and remove it from the game forever. However, this involves trying to pick the right Deliverance card from 5 options, and if you're wrong you might just make the battle harder, or, in one encounter, you permanently replace the monster encounter with an /even more powerful monster/. This happened to me. It was one of the moments that made me happy to write a review that was so negative.
the cynic I am writing anything negative makes me happy, way to go Quinns xD
Thanks for the Disco Elysium recommendation!
DE is ace, I’ve been playing it over the last British lockdown.
@ Max . I think his point was, he wasn’t having fun, the experience was cumbersome, and the outcome just made it more cumbersome. Mentioning that as a game reviewer is part of his role. I can see how he wrote it, it looks like he’s maliciously being negative for the sake of being negative.
I know when I buy a big box game $100-plus, I look for positives to help me justify my purchase, while actively overlooking negatives. And I find myself defending the game in spite of my dissatisfaction. In the end, when my game group comes over, no matter how much conniving I do to get Nemesis to the table, we end up playing Sushi Go or Takenoko. Feedback from friends that have no financial stake in a game, helps me know the actual value of the game.
@@maxmustermann9036 Disco elysium is a unique game. Ive played games for over 30 years, and nothing like this one.
Note that it might look like a regular RPG (like Baldurs Gate, Divinity OS etc) its more of a point and click adventure game with glourious dialogue and supreme diversity in how you play it.
Its a game that embraces failing. You can, if you want, play as a permanently alcoholic as depressed looser... And be rewarded in game for acting "in character".
Or maybe you are a racist asshole? The game wont penalize you for it. It will reward you for acting like a racist,of thats the choices youve made.
Its also both very funny and very tragic. My only gripe is the ending. It goes from solid 5 out of 5,to having an ending thats more 4 out of 5.
Had it stuck the landing it would have been The game of the decade for me
On the topic of missed rules (because I also ran into "what the heck do I do to add a turn?") To Awaken Realms' credit, the index specifically has "Turn Add Turn" referencing pages 10,15. 10 explains where the card comes from and goes. 15 tells you you can spend hours to take extra turns!
Definitely a fan of Quinn's big box phase
After the worm phase comes the box phase... what will be the next one?
@@technom22 If we considerer that there's a trend, I say after worm->box, there's death phase and then emo phase
Reminder that Quinns finished Pathologic 1 before the better translation came out, but stopped playing this game.
Wow, that is definitely saying something.
Damn
co-op board games need to be fun even when you're failing.
Agreed. I just had a similar conversation with some of my friends the other day. I asked them, is a game being easy not fun? And the reasoning was, with so many cooperative games on the market, so many of them seem overly difficult. I realize this increases replayability, but that's only to a point. Losing is not fun. In the right circumstances, you can have fun and lose, but losing hours of progress is never, and will never be fun.
It's not about beign "FUN" when you lose, it's about beign INTERESTING.
I get why some games are "you lose, start from zero"... but if you are in the middle of a story driven game... that's not interesting... that's not even thematicaly apropiate. It would be more interesting if it gave you a minor setback and maybe changed something along the path.
Heck, there are games that use "failing" as the main progression system for the game. So when you lose, you get better. Then you go "I'll get it THIS time!"
@@abefroman81 A game doesn't have to be easy to be fun, just not tedious. That's what ultimately killed this game for Quinns, it became tedious.
@@GambitsEnd I wasn't saying that a game has to be easy to be fun but rather, if a game is easy, does that make it not fun? Take a video game for example of Diablo 3. For the better part of the game, you're thrown dozens of enemies that pose little danger to you, but the fun lies in using all the cool abilities and tools you acquire in laying waste to them. Bosses offer a more strategic approach sometimes, but other times they just require the right amount of endurance and health management. This is the kind of gameplay I'd like to see in some board games.
This game isn't that fun even when you're winning. For now, it's so "acceptable" for me, that in the days I can't get more than 3 players it's still better than another campaign game that I have around, less rules overhead, quite nice moment to moment gameplay, but if Quinns is right in how this is going to turn out... I don't know. The game was interesting in how it changed from dream to dream so far, so there's that. Hopefully Vasel and some reviews I've read online are right here. Hell, I love Arcadia Quest, and Quinns hates it, so...
Yes, but where's the reference pear? I'm lost without it. Yes there are bananas, but how am I supposed to know if those bananas are the same size as the bananas I have in my home?
It's those little missing details that let you know the review was done in a dream.
@@Zizhou Wait a sec...
The reference pair is Quinn's totem, like DiCaprio's top in Inception
That fake outro with the eastender music that you also put in the root review is now my ringtone
It's so good.
Will we ever have SUSD x EastEnders crossovers?
@@luigiscazzari4724 stream of the eastenders board game when?
21:14 My main takeaway from this review is that Quinns' tongue is much, much longer than I ever expected.
👀
It’s like a hummingbird.
Its how he gets all the ladies
@@alwaysplaythegame it's a family show
You don't have to sleep in a cardboard box, Quinns, you can sleep in a bathtub or a large mixing bowl
13:09
That is some choice umbrella usage.
The shot with the umbrella really drives-home the point, and is so satisfying to watch!
😂 Bravo! 👏👏
"My campaign started to feature more fudging than the books of a crooked accountant working at a failing fudge factory on double fudge Friday." Seriously the best quote ever!
"Or if you were looking for a surreal, one player adventure... it's 2020."
I really hoped he would just stop talking at that point because it was a perfect line.
And I hoped he would suggest an actual board game.
@@stravvman -- cool...?
"the the mural in a children's hospital, it looks fun, but it's not fooling anyone: this is a procedure." holy shit
OHHHHH I LOVE THIS TIME OF THE DAY
Can disco elysium get the official su&sd rec- imagine the absurdity of that pear on its steam page
That's an awesome idea that should actually happen!
Sounds like you invented a new badge, Quinns: "Shut up & Sit Down, categorically recommends...playing a video game instead"
Yeah for a board game reviewer, that might be the harshest criticism I've heard levelled at a board game yet. Damn. But to be fair I saw Etherfields as an early prototype a long time ago and while pretty, we recognized it was flimsy as fuck as far as the gameplay goes even back then.
@@Carighan Also to be fair, Disco Elysium is one of the best video games
so there's that
"Are you laughing" he spontaneously asks as I'm genuinely laughing out loud.
I have never felt so directly talked to in a video than I was in that moment.
@@aussiegecko1892 It felt like a true breaking of the 4th wall. I thought he could hear me for a second before realising that's absurd... right?
“Is An Car crash” -Quentin Smith
"Quickly run out of splace" - What's in your coffee Quinns? Cause it smells a lot like Blaseball...
Excellent work, thank you for the review! Your discussion of how you'd started cheating to avoid losing progress and suffering through long, extended negative play experiences really hit home. I've been there for sure.
I believe Quinns did cover Blaseball for People Make Games recently, if you've not already seen it :)
It honestly sounds like the experiences I've had with Tainted Grail as well...
Quinns: "at just 75 pounds for the core box..."
me: "wow that's a heavy box, must be a lot of cards"
Quinns: "... plus shipping"
me: "oh... money..."
Yeah I actually went and thought to myself: 75 pounds? Shipping must be killing!
Is this some kind of American joke that I'm too international standards to understand?
@@jonatanrullman maybe British?
I had the same reaction!
I mean, it IS a Kickstarter game - at the current rate of escalation one of them will have to hit that thirty kilos eventually.
"I didn't feel like playing by the rules" is perhaps the most damning thing a board game reviewer can say
I don't know, some designers are pretty cool about that, "make it your own" and that kind of stuff... as a person that plays TTRPG a lot... yeaaaah sometimes the "rules as written" are garbage.
Not really, most games are better with a few house rule to customize them to your group.
I feel like it’s more a case of ‘you ruined the experience for yourself, the designers had little to do with that’
@@TeChNoWC7 what do you mean? "if the rules lead to uninteresting gameplay, it has a lot to with the designers"
Random Encounters are one of those design choices that can be a hit or miss depending on how well implemented it is.
If it only leads to combat... it's meant to attack your resources (specially if they don't drop anything when you killed them, or they give no xp). But if lead to different things, combat/parley/trade/information... then you ARE looking toward a better system... and you don't need to change a lot of rules!
I think recommending a videogame instead is way harsher... 😂 😂
I feel like "Kickstarter game" should be its own genre at this point
For the big box games I understand that cause most of them are just bland rules and lots of miniatures and the illusion of content. But the thing is some Kickstarter games are incredible but you wont know unless you back it and play it. If you don't back it you will have to pay way more for it or not get it at all.
@@Urek968 if you define the genre as the game style and not rigidly having actually been kickstarted, it'd be fine.
@@marrioman13 yeah I definitely mean your archetypal big box high price tag lotsominis games, not just any game that's happened to be launched on kickstarter. Kind of an "all kickstarter games were funded by kickstarter, but not all games funded by kickstarter are kickstarter games" thing
Not wrong.
It’s the genre with graphic that never suck 😊
quinns likes making jokes about being alone
because he's never alone
i'd like to report a murder
Me: *quietly pushes my receipt for Return to Dark Tower behind the door.*
Great review! My wife and I are several hours into Etherfields and I have noticed the same pros and cons. The dreams are interesting and diversely themed but the first time I realized that the Dreamworld map and slumbers were essentially rinse and repeat I produced an audible groan.
Quinn’s that Rolodex reference is the oldest you’ve ever sounded 😂
This boy still dreams of working in an office I can tell
Rolodex was a card on Netrunner at the time he played it, I think that's one of the reasons the word is fresh in his mind.
I have never heard so much negativity early on in a SU&SD review. I figured this would be a unique video. Yes, yes it was. Thanks for being so open and honest about your thoughts on this game.
This might be THE most savage review Ive ever seen out of SU&SD, and Ive been watching since they were on Penny Arcade.
Also holy shit Quinns' tongue is REALLY LONG?!?
...Ladies.
@@goodlookingcorpse Time to pop those upper shirt buttons again I presume.
Lol, I thought I was the only one who was startled by his tongue!
I feel like he's in a bad mood because of things not having to do with Etherfields. That whole review lacked the substance I've come to enjoy from his reviews and was unnecessarily negative about things he usually doesn't complain about.
@@trianglestri7487 Not sure I got the "compare to rpg", it was mostly compared to Arkham Horror LCG
A game about dreams that ultimately disappoints....is this just “Kickstarter: The Game”
It didn't have to be that way. If I redo the rules, it will be a totally different game (experience).
Haha that's hilarious
I call those work dreams.
@@RulebooksForYou isnt it a bit to late change the rules if the game is already shipped XD
@@FaytTheXpert Printable or Shippable, and maybe 2nd Edition?
When kickstarter board game companies dream of the SUSD effect on their game, but it turns into a nightmare...
Except you know they took nearly four million pounds on kickstarter so they woke up from the dream on thier new expensive mattress.
@@grandad1982 Yikes! Guess you can't have your feelings hurt that bad with numbers like that :0
Great review as always...love and happy and safe holidays to all of SU&SD
This is a great review in so many ways. Thank you for the insight and content!
Legitimately was looking for a review and couldn't believe in my suprise your video came up, keep up the great work guys
Ending absolutely killed me (as usual!)
I think this comment is appropriate right here... Doing art and making stories on LSD is getting interesting results, writing rules on the other hand, isn't...
Me, with a non-existent sleep schedule in quarantine: lmao I don't understand how the awakening system works irl.
I feel you... What even is a healthy amount of sleep at a reasonable time?
Me at 3 AM reading this comment: haha no idea what you're talking about...
@@2MeatyOwlLegs Go to sleep as close to 10:00 pm as you can.
@@vasarat1 Well, easier said then done I'm afraid. I've tinnitus that keeps me from sleeping until I'm pretty much exhausted. I'm getting treatment but it is a very slow process. But thanks for the advice anyways.
Eventually ran into similar issues with Tainted Grail and 7th Continent where the gameplay eventually felt like it impeded the fun of exploration and discovery.
exactly
How about a xmas special where Quinns and Tom Vasel discuss their wildly opposing views on this game?
Tom Vassel also thought Tainted Grail was great and I curse him every time I look at that game taking up a LOT of room on my shelf based upon his review.
So I'm willing to trust Quinn's advice when making the decision to not purchase Etherfields.
9:33 Break down !_ ! You guys are the best!
When people want to make a video game, but they have too many artist friends and not enough programmer friends, they usually take one of two paths:
1. watch some Unity tutorials and put up some walking simulators on Patreon
2. commission an artbook and repurpose it as a "board game" for Kickstarter
The art and card concepts looked so wondrous and unique... such a shame that it doesn't hold together.
You guys just have THE BEST reviews. You don't sugar coat anything. You truly help me decide if I'll like something or not. and I love you for it.
I can only imagine that 0:15 is how anyone in my family feels internally when they see i've brought one of my newfangled board games to play
Omg I'm drying :))))))))))
Great video. You deserve more money for saving me some :) Happy Christmas to you and the team!
Awesome review, Quinns! One of my favourites you guys have done!
If I may suggest. "If sonic was catatonic" as an alternate sentence
Loved this review! So poinient and expertly delivered. And yes I was laughing at the end, great catch Quinns ;)
Thank you for doing a review of this kickstarter game, you just saved me €100! I hope in 2021 you guys do more kickstarter reviews, because I know a heck of a lot of people want to see your expert opinions of them!
Some really fun edits in this review. Very entertaining.
First time viewer here! I usually skip reviews to where I need them to be, aka spam that 15 sec podcast button, but this was funny, brutally honest and succinct! You sir, have earned a subscriber!
I am so glad this review came out after i backed this kickstarter to the max. I have received the game and LOVE it. I want to play every day and the slumbers are a reflection on how well you are playing. If you play well, slumbers that are neutral or positive are added. Sometimes you might get punished for playing badly. The slumbers are those recurring dreams we sometimes have. And there is story in them. I think if you play like SU&SD is doing, you will never find joy in any game. I am so glad wave 2 is coming with 3 expansions.
wow - the art is amazing. feels like this could have been a realy good game with some more play testing
Yeah the art does seem pretty unique, at least I've never seen anything like it.
You guys are fantastic I love all your videos!
Oohh, that stinger took me back.
This is one of the best reviews you've done so far Quinns! It epitomised every bit of anxiety this game gives me when considering it's purchase. The umbrella extension and dodgy accountant bit were particular highlights!
The umbrella-bit caught me off guard. Laughed so loud my girlfriend woke up. Now I have to wait until morning to finish the video.
I cant wait to open my box :)
And what a hell of a view from your window. Amazing :)
This was a strange episode of Cool Ghosts...
I love your review Q! (dont know how spell :) ). Question: are you planning to film eclipse second dawn as a playthrough? Im totally lost in the game and would like to see you guys play when you can :)
Okay, I love the continuity nod to the last video :)
I'm gonna laugh so hard if Quinns wears that same shirt for the next review.
Funnily enough, my partner and I have been having traumatic flashbacks to our time with Arkham Horror LCG while watching this video. Needless to say, we, uhh... didn't have the best time with it. But that was an awesome review, Quinns! It brought me a lot of cheer right when I was feeling down, so thank you for this.
im going through a fraction of this with dead of winter my self, I play alone but i still have fun, well not completely alone i have a few cats to witness my slow downward spiral into madness
Funny like always and I still thrilled to get my etherfield next year🤪
17:03 Love your jar of plastic bags, Quinn! Really ties the room together :p
Excellent review, reminds me miserably of my time with The Seventh Continent.
7th continent is exactly the game I thought of when he started cheating. It's what we did the third time we failed the first curse in 7th Continent, and then the whole thing became pointless because we couldn't die anymore, half the mechanics became pointless and the game fell apart. We haven't reached that point with Etherfields yet, but I can't see us starting from scratch if we fail one dream.
Amazing review. Im happy that you guys are honest and arent afraid to speak the truth
And as always I laughed my ass off :)
Just wanted to let you guys know that you’re awesome. My missus and I have been binge-watching your videos this month, and we’ve invested in 2 new board games due to your reviews. Eclipse, and Root. We’re big fans. Thank you.
Appreciate this review! Curious what ya'll think of the retail version of 7th continent. Can't make up my mind whether to buy or not...
Had me going at the beginning. I've heard tons of mixed reviews on this, so I was really interested when SU&SD had a review on it. I've been digging story/campaign games so this piqued my interested and I almost backed it originally. I would probably end up playing this solo, and Quinns really nailed it with the "house ruling" everything because I probably would do the same.
It seems like Awaken Realms could have had a hit here, but they just added way too much onto it. The dreams sound really cool, but everything else sounds very taxing.
It also struck me as odd when Awaken Realms forced in minis on this game, when there are A) not enough minis included to represented all the creatures, and B) you may not even use all the minis.
Definitely makes me hesitant to even look at ISS Vanguard with this many glaring errors in this story driven game.
The overworld phase really isn’t as bad as Quinns makes out and honestly it’s really good. It might get a little monotonous at times but not very often.
The minis aren’t forced into Etherfields, they were an add on, and was explicitly advertised that they offer no game play elements. The core game comes with just tokens, if you prefer to go that route.
Are you doing Vampire the masquerade: Heritage review? cheers!
Loved the ending! 10/10 would dream again.
Love the raven kigurumi!
I backed Etherfields right as I seriously got into playing board games. The themes and art fascinated me, and I had heard good things about Nemesis, so I was excited. Unfortunately, as I was waiting, I picked up Gloomhaven and soon started to realize that I had probably just picked up a better version of Etherfields. On the bright side, the miniatures still look gorgeous, and I can’t wait to see my player’s surprise when I slam one down in D&D.
nooooooo two different stories and game mechanics. Both are excellent games! Love both, just hate the fiddliness of both.
I don't like etherfields and I like gloomhaven, but the main criticism Quin has for Etherfields it can be applied to Gloomhaven too.
Love these reviews!
Why did the bit with the umbrella make me laugh so much.
I like how they write 4 minutes of excellent copy for a game at the start of a negative review.
Disco Elysium is on sale on Steam at the time of this comment.
*This* is the correct antidote.
Oh shoot, it appears to be out of stock now
I have a huge back catalog atm, but it's been on my wishlist. What's the elevator pitch for why the game's worth it? Might pick it up during Christmas...
@@chayashida Its main selling point would be the clever writing. Buy it if you like well written games.
@@chayashida the writing is absurdly great, but the thing that sold it for me was (and this is a bit oversimplified) that instead of role playing a party of characters, you’re role playing the emotions and life experiences of a single character. You don’t just (as a made-up example) level up your resilience, you have a conversation with your resilience that might improve it, or maybe you’ll fail and get some weird psychosis that is mostly bad but occasionally helpful?
It’s just a very cool system
Thank you for your honest and entertaining played review😂!!
Cool review, did you actually get to the Deliverance part? That kind of fixes part of your issues with the game. :)
A game about nightmares has a nightmarish rulebook, that's really thematic
Rulebook its ok, clear
This review just made me buy the game without question even if he didn't like it! Thank you!
Love the umbrella moment at 13:10
Great review!
Oh, boy. This reflects my experience with and thoughts about the game a hundred percent :-(
As an American, hearing "At 75 pounds..." at first I was like.... "that's a LOT of components".
Epic stuff again!! A huge role model for a 🇫🇮 tuber like me 👍 keep on the good work!
@Shut up & Sit Down
Having played this, do you have any thoughts on ISS Vanguard, same publishes?
Sounds like Quinns actually won Etherfields by waking up in the real world and not playing the game. Like waking up from a nightmare.
The only way to win is not to play.
I can't watch this until I play mine ... I just got it the other day! If it's terrible, I don't want to know. I have to at least a few plays out of it first ...
F
□ (for playstation)
Alt+F4
If you like it, that's great! If you don't, that's a shame. A review is just someone else's opinion, after all.
Awaken Realms games hold their value so even if you hate it you should be able to sell it for more or at least what you got out of it.
Love this review. Thank you for doing the kickstarted ones!! Hopefully not all kickstarter games are bad though!
My game will come to kickstarter with 44 cards, 8 coins, and a lovely play mat. Any maybe a spinner. You know. For the gambling!
Brilliant. So amusing. Thx
Very happy to see the return of the "He''ll be back next week" meme
When the word "Kickstarter" is dropped, I brace myself
Love the hand gestures at 7:24
My big question after seeing this review is where can I buy a crow cape/poncho like that?
I really didn't like when at the end of the video I cackled maniacally, just for fun, at him closing the box on himself only for him to ask if I was laughing. Maybe I'm dreaming too...
We're one year later, and I've played tens of hours of Etherfields, and I feel I have to share this feeling I got from my last game: This is simply the best, most rewarding game I've ever played. Every dream keeps surprising us. Every game is different and complex, and after completing a dream I always feel high for at least a day.
There have been some different opinions on the slumbers, but I find them very much fun. You may be surprised but there are quite some goods slumbers (and fate cards) that help you. And the other ones also give you an opportunity to prepare your gems, progress cards, etc, before entering the dream.
I feel so blessed to have this game in my collection. I feel this is truly a work of art. Something people that are not "in the hobby" might not even understand.
I went all in on Kickstarter, so this was quite an investment, but I'm sooo glad I made that decision.
My personal advice: If you ever get the chance to get a copy of this game, don't hesitate and grab it. You won't regret the experience of a lifetime.
When you woke up and there was the beep, I laughed so much !!! I’ve had a similar experience when I cheat with games; it usually snowballs to the sale bin.
Very enjoyable video as always. Even with all the valid criticism i am still looking forward to playing this.
The shape of the board is not a concern to me and my wife since we are always playing board games facing each other. I think that the sideways arrangement of the board elements is the best compromise for this.
Small additional note: The Index of the rule book seems to help a lot in some situations like unterstanding what "Add 1 Turn" exactly means.