Flash keeps making those small adjustments like adding a few more turrets + mines in the base + goliaths sooner + better timing attack ... at some point he will be unstoppable!
What would be a cool twist on this Flash series is maybe a couple games only cast with Flash's vision ONLY... might be more of a brain teaser on what he could be thinking with what he sees or didn't see.
You beat carrier by holding your push til you see the transition to carriers. You only have a window where they dont have supply into effective army. You have to identify where the carrier production is and go straight to it
Carriers are nearly unstoppable, but the transition into them takes a long time, and as seen here, can be effectively punished of the opponent reads the switch.
From when the carriers start the clock is ticking: 4 stargates = 4 carriers w/ 4 interceptors each: 2 Minutes and 20 seconds At this point you need 3 base with gas, working on a 4th, 3/2 upgrades, 200/200 supply, be across the map, have 12+ goliaths, be Flash 4 stargates = 8 carriers w/ 8/4 interceptors: 3 minutes 48 seconds at this point you are definitely dead
Felt like flash realized that he was facing carriers when the templars kept psi storming only goliaths.. thats what i would've thought but idk if thats a common tatic so he can zealot bomb with the shuttles
I think the toss should've had the carrier production spread around the map. You said "had he has the carrier production elsewhere" - well, then the flash would've been in that place, he went for the the production line.. So the Toss has to spread it.
So I have thought about this for YEARS... and finally I think I have a couple ideas worth saying. Specifically this is about how to DEFEND a 3rd / 4th Base as Terrian vs Defiler, Ling, Ultra, Lurker... Zerg Late game basically. Sense this is the latest Arty vid... just going to toss it down here... 1. Dark Swarm with a Single Lurker in it... or even 2 Spread... seems like the PERFECT time for Optical Flare. Can't kill them? Well Make it so they likewise can't kill you! 2. Defending a Base using anything but Battlecruisers either doesn't work or is HILLARIOUSLY Cost ineffective... so here is the proposal in full... 2a) Start the expansion by mining the GAS with a hand full of Bio as Defense... this gas mining will fuel the BC Defense. 2b) Put a Bunker down INSIDE the Mineral line as FAR away from the ramps as possible... best done when minerals are top or bottom of CC. The fire from the Bunker makes it impractical to target the SCV's... who mining away cause all kinds of disruptions... and can easily Repair 2c) Have 3 BC's and 2 Medics be your picket forces out in front. The BC's are positioned quite far ahead... above, over, and even beyond the ramp entrance a bit. They are there to pew pew attackers and Yamato Defilers. Spread should be as such so only 1 can be Plagued at a time. The 2 Medics are there to be annoying and sound the alarm when attacked. Restore Plagued BC's... and Optical Flare Lurkers if things go truly interesting. Without Dark Swarm on your CC / in the mineral line the BC's and Bunker should be more then enough Defense. You will lose some SCV but likely won't even have to stop mining during the attack. Is this defense impossible to break? No. But it is rather cost effective at 24 Supply and the counter attack option with 3 BC's that far forward is quite good as well.
One thing Bisu made a grave mistake, is he's Luring Flash in the Carrier Production base. Some carriers being popped out getting slaughtered by Goliaths
I feed this helps demonstrate something to me that flash should be aiming for. On like three of his games his timing attack around carrier time kind of rolled whatever base he chose but ultimately lost due to carriers getting too much. Why not just identify and hunt the carrier production base first?
Well this explains why Protoss doesnt go to carriers more often, feels like they really need to heavily reduce the tank count at least once, or get lucky and hide the stargates long enough.
Artosis does only flash practice like this, or do all of the pros practice like this. I know this a bit of a nerdy question should pros try and adopt flashes practice habits? And what is flashes practice habits?
Yeah pros don't take ladder that seriously, it's more for just general practice or trying out strategies. A lot of these pros will 1v1 each other in custom lobbies for super serious practice. Best advice I can give is to not focus on results, just focus on learning. For example lets say you are trying to improve at a specific part of the game, and because you're focused on that area, you miss more things in general and you lose like 30% more games in the next 20 games. But afterwards when you achieve that skill and go back to playing normally maybe you win 20% more often at your rank and you're just generally a stronger player. If you only focus on what can win you the game you won't evolve as a player as fast.
That was the mother of all timings. And I feel like carriers are overrated (but I'm a noob, so there's that). Not because they were weak. They are the ultimate weapon, they demolish Terran. But why risk it? Bisu was ahead, the transition to carriers is super dangerous, and the transition to arbiter isn't. Arbiters, while almost as strong as carriers, don't have any exploitable weakness (cheaper & quicker) when you're in Bisu's position at the 15:00 minute mark (3 mains vs one). Just pump 2 Stargate Arbiter, get their energy upgrade as well, and put 10 gates in each main. And as soon as Terran steamrolls one of the mains, suicide recall into their base (arbiters can be recalled as well, yes?) and block one of those tiny ramps with stasis. I always feel like stasis is massively (!) overrated in open field battles, because it blocks zealots and forces Protoss to stay in one spot to dispose of unfreezing units. But stasis on the ramp to the main base, cutting off reinforcements? Terran HATES that, because rebuilding your base/depots isn't really a thing with Terran. And yes, vessel EMP can theoretically intercept that, but that's not going to cut it in the long run (EMP is fickle against repeated suicide arbiters). Nor will mines in the Terran base. Then again, I'm a noob. :P
No exploitable weakness? Just an EMP will render your arbiter dead weight for a couple of minutes, so your Recall investment is down the drain. So what'll that force? More arbiters, which'll get EMP'd as well. So this forces P to go Gatewayman to switch into Stasis play.
@@reishiki8682 Admittedly, "no exploitable weakness" was a bit too much. What I meant was that while going carriers is a big transition that can be exploited (for a long while you have like 40+ supply that does fuck all for you), you are not really 'transitioning into arbiters'. You just follow the usual Protoss caveman path and sprinkle in arbiters. That maybe 12-20 supply in arbiters doesn't mean crap, and eventually an EMP is going to miss (while suiciding into a terran base/expo/tankblob, in open field battles I find arbiters underwhelming). Carriers to me look like a 'win harder' unit. Devastating when massed, but arbiters are so much more safe. Why take that risk when you're as ahead as Bisu was in this game? Just grind the Terran down with recalls.
valkyries don't work vs interceptors. wraiths are used vs shuttle, subjected to build order/game plan of course. They are really effective in the hands of a pro. (Flash vs Snow before military, modern Light etc)
@@goodlearnerbadstudent756 You sure they don't? Like microing them into the carriers and then attack the carriers, while the interceptors fly around them and get hit by the AoE?
@@jzo1414Carrier base armor is 4, so valks damage is heavily penalized because its attack hits multiple times. It's why carapace upgrades are a niche but good move vs zealots.
Wraith is something I've been wanting to see again, it's just way too purpose-built for this one scenario. Valkyrie does not work against interceptors unfortunately. If it did, it would easily be THE carrier counter, but alas.
@@theSato I see. But this scenario in which protoss builts a shuttle with reaver seems to happen almost every game, so I would think that just having a starport to make one wraith would be a good counter.
Let's place bets, I think flash is going to settle on 3 fac over 2 fac at a minimum for this. This still looked really weak and killable at many different points
Depends how pricy the mines would be and how fast they make. If it was 25 minerals per mine and it had a semi-lengthy "build time" inside the Vulture - I don't think it would break the game, because as it is, you can just sac your vulture on an attempted harass and build another to get 3 more mines for the same price, which is what's already done usually.
Flash drew the logical conclusion that if bisu doesnt attack into him he most likely transitions - fool me once? shame on me, fool me twice shame on YOUUUU then it doesnt even matter, 200/200 tank vulture push, reinforce with goliaths and he will be fine - very smart and enjoyable to watch, because the push has such massive momentum and doesnt lose any moment due to the small army size of protoss, reinforcing with goliath isnt even a big gamble at that point im very curious of how the meta will change from this point on, because protoss will be forced to bomb terran or transition faster before terran is maxed ? Is that even possible, because flash is a scanning monster and will probably pull the trigger earlier ? seems like turtle terran, albeit super duper boring for 15 minutes wins (what a surprise?)... just like in SC II with boring turtle terran play... i just dont think terran turtle should be able to get soooo much map info without moving out of base at all... id like to see some arbiter gateway man vs flashs 7min 3rd CC upgrade terran turtle style (on citadel) id also like to see more map variation of flash vs bisu - i just really cant find tvp enjoyable on citadel because protoss legit has almost no option for rotation vs. terran on this map, the 4th and 3rd are always so close together that u can form a single tank line with heavy focus on the 3rd, because the 4th is so choked and heavily protected by terrain.... vulture movement is key and reinforcements to either are so damn quick because its literally on the rally point of terran why does bisu not crunch on the 3rd with a smaller task force from the north (stairs) and the mid? seems like he could potentially bomb terrans tank deep enough so he could break the 3rd from the northern stairs with goons (+1reaver ?) or at least heavily harass SCVs one of the games they played he did that when flash spawned on the 4 o clock base, he harassed the 3rd from the stairs and bombed from the middle as well and it was decently successful? SO MANY QUESTIONS artyyy please give us some in depth analysis of this game compared to the last two... its so confusing to see bisu smash flash and then suddenly not being able to smash him, even though technically in the past games they were pretty darn close to being even before the triggers had been pulled (e.g. last game after vulture drop before bisu bombs flashs 3rd)
Like in SC2 terran needs a boost to the early game Econ and production. Protoss has every ability to dictate the early game with no downside and if you over react with 1 marine too many then your permanently behind in Econ as the protoss takes a third that will never be punished
15:31 that was almost like a cartoon moment for this zealot.
*record scratch*
Yup, that's me.
Martyr Zealot
That was some wile e. Coyote level of shenanigans
someone needs to make a gif out of it
Flash keeps making those small adjustments like adding a few more turrets + mines in the base + goliaths sooner + better timing attack ... at some point he will be unstoppable!
Also completly different bo's from both players this game. Seems like gasless expand just sucks on this map ;)
Flash is watching ArtosisCasts, for sure :)
But guy in the chat said that you're supposed to be active on the map not turtle up???
What would be a cool twist on this Flash series is maybe a couple games only cast with Flash's vision ONLY... might be more of a brain teaser on what he could be thinking with what he sees or didn't see.
I love that, please give us Flash Vision
That would be super interesting
POV casts would be cool
So we finally have the answer to the question "how does Terran counter carriers?": "JUST BE FLASH!"
The carrier fleet wasn't done, so Artosis is right. You beat carrier fleet by preventing one.
You beat carrier by holding your push til you see the transition to carriers. You only have a window where they dont have supply into effective army. You have to identify where the carrier production is and go straight to it
Only way to beat a carrier fleet is with mass goliaths and being a literal god with ghost lockdown micro
Gotta love the Archon derping around 18:40 mark
yeah I was thinking the same thing, lol (its more around 18:30 btw)
Carriers are nearly unstoppable, but the transition into them takes a long time, and as seen here, can be effectively punished of the opponent reads the switch.
The amount I've learned about playing Terran during these flash games has been more than watching Broodwar for the past 2 years combined
From when the carriers start the clock is ticking:
4 stargates = 4 carriers w/ 4 interceptors each: 2 Minutes and 20 seconds
At this point you need 3 base with gas, working on a 4th, 3/2 upgrades, 200/200 supply, be across the map, have 12+ goliaths, be Flash
4 stargates = 8 carriers w/ 8/4 interceptors: 3 minutes 48 seconds
at this point you are definitely dead
wow flash really dominated that one! nice win for him
10:03 Chills confirmed 😂❤
- "This is exactly what we want to see." 😅
I can't wait for Season 18 of ASL! Thanks for always tying us over, Arty!
It's SSL now. Afreeca is rebranding to Soop so ASL will be rebranded to SSL.
Same!! Cant wait for season 18
omg ASL is growing up so fast
It's "tide over" not "tie over."
@@ConeJellos I learned something today! Thank you
"chills... alright..." Artosis' passion for an asian man's terran plays gives me chills... alright.. that is what I want to see.
To be fair to Flash's monotonous gameplay these games probably occurred in the span of an afternoon
I love this new youtube format, where I get to find out what happens before I even watch the vid
Every day a new Artosis cast is the best thing ever
Excellent play by Flash. Thanks for casting
This is why it will never get boring watching Flash.
Imagine being that one zealot who got hit by like 10 mines at once
his life for Aiur.
This is the Flash we know and love!
He's baaaaack! Artosis world giving us the best in Starcraft analysis
Always good to see some flash excellence
*Welcome back to FlashCasts
Flash is literally fine tuning his strategy like a Machine Learning model
we are all machines that learn! (at least potentially)
Felt like flash realized that he was facing carriers when the templars kept psi storming only goliaths.. thats what i would've thought but idk if thats a common tatic so he can zealot bomb with the shuttles
I think when he started popping those Goliaths he already knew.
"Oh god, OH GOD, that was a huge shot"
I think the toss should've had the carrier production spread around the map. You said "had he has the carrier production elsewhere" - well, then the flash would've been in that place, he went for the the production line.. So the Toss has to spread it.
The one and only counter to carriers: stop your opponent from getting carriers.
Watching from start to finish on 0.5x was very enjoyable.
(Intoxicated Arty sounds funny)😂
Love to see it!
Learned the lesson and didn’t let him go with a lot of carriers, good job!
Third time's a charm :)
This Flash guy seems pretty good. I think if he keeps at it he might make a name for himself!
The Tosis doing the castosis!!
I feel like the video quality looks a little strange today, compared to some older videos...hm🤔
Yeah I was having some trouble despite my internet being fine.
Ty arty!!❤
I LOVE YOU ARTOSIS!!!!!
Masterful play by Flash.
Looking at that minimap before the final battle, I never thought Terran would win. I guess they don't call him God for nothing
Please more flash!!
"templurs"
Spoiler Blocker
Yep nice one Artosis
that's well-blayed
Insane timing
Hey guys, welcome back to CastsFlash
seeing Flash put mines in his own base is a sign he is figuring out the meta.
Flash is back!
Great game!!
Flash finally made a volture play, prev games he had 0 of them
@artosiscasts I made a custom map with a CARRIER HARD COUNTER. It's the only video on my channel.
flash's timing gave me CHILLS
very exciting match
So I have thought about this for YEARS... and finally I think I have a couple ideas worth saying. Specifically this is about how to DEFEND a 3rd / 4th Base as Terrian vs Defiler, Ling, Ultra, Lurker... Zerg Late game basically. Sense this is the latest Arty vid... just going to toss it down here...
1. Dark Swarm with a Single Lurker in it... or even 2 Spread... seems like the PERFECT time for Optical Flare. Can't kill them? Well Make it so they likewise can't kill you!
2. Defending a Base using anything but Battlecruisers either doesn't work or is HILLARIOUSLY Cost ineffective... so here is the proposal in full...
2a) Start the expansion by mining the GAS with a hand full of Bio as Defense... this gas mining will fuel the BC Defense.
2b) Put a Bunker down INSIDE the Mineral line as FAR away from the ramps as possible... best done when minerals are top or bottom of CC. The fire from the Bunker makes it impractical to target the SCV's... who mining away cause all kinds of disruptions... and can easily Repair
2c) Have 3 BC's and 2 Medics be your picket forces out in front. The BC's are positioned quite far ahead... above, over, and even beyond the ramp entrance a bit. They are there to pew pew attackers and Yamato Defilers. Spread should be as such so only 1 can be Plagued at a time.
The 2 Medics are there to be annoying and sound the alarm when attacked. Restore Plagued BC's... and Optical Flare Lurkers if things go truly interesting.
Without Dark Swarm on your CC / in the mineral line the BC's and Bunker should be more then enough Defense. You will lose some SCV but likely won't even have to stop mining during the attack.
Is this defense impossible to break? No. But it is rather cost effective at 24 Supply and the counter attack option with 3 BC's that far forward is quite good as well.
What would Flash do…? Switches on his Flash timings to kick some Protoss bntt! GG!
Flash feel like a different person, like someone is showing the new meta moves to flash...
The winner just steamrolled, gg.
You should do his series against Best btw, that's when he learned and finally went 5-factory. It's also where he won a game.
One thing Bisu made a grave mistake, is he's Luring Flash in the Carrier Production base. Some carriers being popped out getting slaughtered by Goliaths
I feed this helps demonstrate something to me that flash should be aiming for. On like three of his games his timing attack around carrier time kind of rolled whatever base he chose but ultimately lost due to carriers getting too much. Why not just identify and hunt the carrier production base first?
Just on time 😅
15:30 that is pure gold comedy man
I've said it before in so many words, but Flash's gamesense is kind of outrageous.
Dang, guess we won't see the NFT build any time soon.
Chills.
You da man arty
Sick game
He didn't say hey guys : (
GREAT GAME
Flash killer instinct is deadly
Pro-toss or Pro-DOS?
Two macro GODS walk into a bar...
Bush should have his star gate base @ 1 o clock instead get flash kill 5 o’clock base and you get 12 carriers
Well this explains why Protoss doesnt go to carriers more often, feels like they really need to heavily reduce the tank count at least once, or get lucky and hide the stargates long enough.
Just another coinflip play in the Protoss playbook sometimes.. kek
Artosis does only flash practice like this, or do all of the pros practice like this. I know this a bit of a nerdy question should pros try and adopt flashes practice habits? And what is flashes practice habits?
Yeah pros don't take ladder that seriously, it's more for just general practice or trying out strategies. A lot of these pros will 1v1 each other in custom lobbies for super serious practice. Best advice I can give is to not focus on results, just focus on learning. For example lets say you are trying to improve at a specific part of the game, and because you're focused on that area, you miss more things in general and you lose like 30% more games in the next 20 games.
But afterwards when you achieve that skill and go back to playing normally maybe you win 20% more often at your rank and you're just generally a stronger player. If you only focus on what can win you the game you won't evolve as a player as fast.
Did bisu miss his max timing because he forgot to upgrade legs? I feel like that was a very slow leg upgrade
24 day flash streak
What are the advantages of upgrade terran that Flash wants to go for it every single game?
Untouchable after like 12 mins I guess. Bisu could not attack at all with the ground army even at 200, would have been deleted easily by +3 tanks.
Just watch the game, upgraded mech is literally unstoppable against Protoss ground units, even though Bisu had double the bases.
hey arty, how about that game where light went triple CC against best on troy, huh? (KCM 2024 S3 W1)
Timing comments
GG
bisu felt bad for him and gave him game 10.... thats what it feels like
I feel like Bisu's macro wasn't great this game. He ended with 100 supply and 2k/1k in the bank.
That was the mother of all timings. And I feel like carriers are overrated (but I'm a noob, so there's that). Not because they were weak. They are the ultimate weapon, they demolish Terran.
But why risk it? Bisu was ahead, the transition to carriers is super dangerous, and the transition to arbiter isn't. Arbiters, while almost as strong as carriers, don't have any exploitable weakness (cheaper & quicker) when you're in Bisu's position at the 15:00 minute mark (3 mains vs one). Just pump 2 Stargate Arbiter, get their energy upgrade as well, and put 10 gates in each main. And as soon as Terran steamrolls one of the mains, suicide recall into their base (arbiters can be recalled as well, yes?) and block one of those tiny ramps with stasis. I always feel like stasis is massively (!) overrated in open field battles, because it blocks zealots and forces Protoss to stay in one spot to dispose of unfreezing units. But stasis on the ramp to the main base, cutting off reinforcements? Terran HATES that, because rebuilding your base/depots isn't really a thing with Terran.
And yes, vessel EMP can theoretically intercept that, but that's not going to cut it in the long run (EMP is fickle against repeated suicide arbiters). Nor will mines in the Terran base.
Then again, I'm a noob. :P
No exploitable weakness? Just an EMP will render your arbiter dead weight for a couple of minutes, so your Recall investment is down the drain. So what'll that force? More arbiters, which'll get EMP'd as well. So this forces P to go Gatewayman to switch into Stasis play.
@@reishiki8682 Admittedly, "no exploitable weakness" was a bit too much. What I meant was that while going carriers is a big transition that can be exploited (for a long while you have like 40+ supply that does fuck all for you), you are not really 'transitioning into arbiters'. You just follow the usual Protoss caveman path and sprinkle in arbiters. That maybe 12-20 supply in arbiters doesn't mean crap, and eventually an EMP is going to miss (while suiciding into a terran base/expo/tankblob, in open field battles I find arbiters underwhelming).
Carriers to me look like a 'win harder' unit. Devastating when massed, but arbiters are so much more safe. Why take that risk when you're as ahead as Bisu was in this game? Just grind the Terran down with recalls.
Now we can see why you shouldnt go to carriers every game.
why not make one wraith for the shuttle in the early game, and valkyries against interceptors?
valkyries don't work vs interceptors.
wraiths are used vs shuttle, subjected to build order/game plan of course. They are really effective in the hands of a pro. (Flash vs Snow before military, modern Light etc)
@@goodlearnerbadstudent756 You sure they don't? Like microing them into the carriers and then attack the carriers, while the interceptors fly around them and get hit by the AoE?
@@jzo1414Carrier base armor is 4, so valks damage is heavily penalized because its attack hits multiple times. It's why carapace upgrades are a niche but good move vs zealots.
Wraith is something I've been wanting to see again, it's just way too purpose-built for this one scenario.
Valkyrie does not work against interceptors unfortunately. If it did, it would easily be THE carrier counter, but alas.
@@theSato I see. But this scenario in which protoss builts a shuttle with reaver seems to happen almost every game, so I would think that just having a starport to make one wraith would be a good counter.
I don't know man. Somehow i think that maybe, just maybe, SC indeed needs a tiniest patch
I mean, what would you do? Right now Protoss is slightly unfavored, but I dont really see any ay to buff them without breaking one of their matchups
It does. The tiniest of updates... Just a few tweaks to some units could shake up some of the builds, make it a new experience
@@farming4g Like what?
Need to add banelings
/s
Let's give zealots 101 HP
Let's place bets, I think flash is going to settle on 3 fac over 2 fac at a minimum for this. This still looked really weak and killable at many different points
so wait, is protoss just going to gamble????
ggs
Would it break the game if vultures could buy more mines like reavers buy scarabs?
Depends how pricy the mines would be and how fast they make. If it was 25 minerals per mine and it had a semi-lengthy "build time" inside the Vulture - I don't think it would break the game, because as it is, you can just sac your vulture on an attempted harass and build another to get 3 more mines for the same price, which is what's already done usually.
Why is Flash having 500 apm against 300 of Bisu right at the beginning? 😂
Flash is obviously using only 1 hand at that point
Flash would lost that
gg
For the algo
Flash drew the logical conclusion that if bisu doesnt attack into him he most likely transitions - fool me once? shame on me, fool me twice shame on YOUUUU
then it doesnt even matter, 200/200 tank vulture push, reinforce with goliaths and he will be fine - very smart and enjoyable to watch, because the push has such massive momentum and doesnt lose any moment due to the small army size of protoss, reinforcing with goliath isnt even a big gamble at that point
im very curious of how the meta will change from this point on, because protoss will be forced to bomb terran or transition faster before terran is maxed ? Is that even possible, because flash is a scanning monster and will probably pull the trigger earlier ?
seems like turtle terran, albeit super duper boring for 15 minutes wins (what a surprise?)... just like in SC II with boring turtle terran play...
i just dont think terran turtle should be able to get soooo much map info without moving out of base at all...
id like to see some arbiter gateway man vs flashs 7min 3rd CC upgrade terran turtle style (on citadel)
id also like to see more map variation of flash vs bisu - i just really cant find tvp enjoyable on citadel
because protoss legit has almost no option for rotation vs. terran on this map, the 4th and 3rd are always so close together that u can form a single tank line with heavy focus on the 3rd, because the 4th is so choked and heavily protected by terrain.... vulture movement is key and reinforcements to either are so damn quick because its literally on the rally point of terran
why does bisu not crunch on the 3rd with a smaller task force from the north (stairs) and the mid? seems like he could potentially bomb terrans tank deep enough so he could break the 3rd from the northern stairs with goons (+1reaver ?) or at least heavily harass SCVs
one of the games they played he did that when flash spawned on the 4 o clock base, he harassed the 3rd from the stairs and bombed from the middle as well and it was decently successful?
SO MANY QUESTIONS
artyyy please give us some in depth analysis of this game compared to the last two...
its so confusing to see bisu smash flash and then suddenly not being able to smash him, even though technically in the past games they were pretty darn close to being even before the triggers had been pulled (e.g. last game after vulture drop before bisu bombs flashs 3rd)
"bisu smash flash" reminded me of Super Smash Flash lmao
Just rename it Flash casts and be done with it 🤣🤣🤣
Fuck work, lets just watch Starcraft!
SPOILER WALL
We want some PvZ now... Enough of the guy that just got out of the military... And the 2 fact armory-academy experiments...
Flash would have won
Like in SC2 terran needs a boost to the early game Econ and production. Protoss has every ability to dictate the early game with no downside and if you over react with 1 marine too many then your permanently behind in Econ as the protoss takes a third that will never be punished