Leica 50mm APO SUMMICRON vs. SUMMILUX | Same but different
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- In this video I am shooting the Leica 50mm APO Summicron #50mmaposummicron and 50mm Summilux #50mmsummilux on a Leica #leica SL to get a feeling for their look in real world scenarios. I would be curious to learn if you knew about the differences that I highlighted in this video between these two lenses. I learned a lot while shooting this video and now it is clear to me that between the APO Summicron and the Summilux the max aperture is not the main distinguishing factor.
I did this video out of personal curiosity as well as popular demand after I released my video on the 50mm APO Summicron on digital vs. analog. Many of you wanted to know what the difference to the Summilux is.
Leica 50mm APO Summicron - Analog vs. Digital: • Leica 50mm APO SUMMICR...
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Let me know which lens or look you prefer.
The Summilux
Summilux.
Summilux
Summicron for me!
summilux!
I'm a new Leica shooter, and the care and quality of what you're doing on your channel is excellent. Incredibly helpful.
Thank you for your kind words Bob. Happy to hear that you like the content.
The lux really makes me think about the Pentax limited lenses. There’s a certain special ‘pop’ to the subject in focus and gives a beautiful rendering. Extremely sharp also without being artificial looking or TOO sharp
The first time I shot my Summilux, I was also surprised by the warmness of the photos compared to my 35 Summilux - it was immediately noticeable. I personally really like the tones. The APO is the sharpness king, but I'd have to pixel-peep to really see it. Considering the price difference between the APO and Summilux, I prefer to have the flexibility of being able open my aperture to f/1.4.
Thanks for your feedback. Good to hear that you also could observe that warmness. One has to heavily pixel peep to see a sharpness difference indeed.
I disagree. You don't have to pixel peep to see the sharpness difference at f/2.0. The difference is apparent in the portrait photos you took at that aperture, where the APO Summicron was noticeably sharper. Of course there was no difference in the photos shot at f/8.0---there almost never is a difference among any good lenses at that aperture.
Well done, Best 50mm lens comparison I’ve seen! Just what i was looking for. I think I will go for the Summilux 1.4 for my new M11 as my 1st 50mm lens. I like the softer Bokeh and 3D pop. The extra resolving power of the APO doesn’t seem very noticeable unless you greatly digitally zoom in.
I sold my Leica, but stuff like this reminds me that it was only because I wasn't ready to buy into the lens system. I'm not sure I have a preference between these, but I know it's kind of a win-win situation!
Thanks for watching Jamie. I hear you. Those Leica lens prices are daunting. Truth spoken. I like how you put it: win-win situation when it comes to either of those lenses. Whichever of those two lenses one owns should be grateful for having the opportunity to shoot them.
I own the M10M and M10R and have the APO Summicron, which I got on trade as I finally gave up all my Nikon and Fuji gear. - Having just tested it today, it is absolutely mind blowing the detail you are able to get using it. I suspect for some the sharpness it produces may be too clinical but I think the reason you get the APO is for the contrast that it produces and the pop and separation is second to none. There is definitely a case for one more stop with the Summilux, but because of the dynamic range of the M10R/M's sensor, I can let that go. I like the videos and the SL seems to produce some nice results as well.
Thanks for watching and your feedback.. really nice setup with the M10M and M10R. Both are exactly in the sweet spot of the APO. Happy shooting!
A few people know that, but the Summilux is also an APO lens. So the differences are not due to this design feature.
Thanks for your feedback Fabienne. Yeah... Must be for some other design differences.
It is simply the placement of glass. Effectively the same lens with a different exterior.
Great video as always thank you very much. The problem with the summilux for me is that the bokeh changes very much from 1.4 to 2.0. From 2.0 you get these "crown cork"/"ninja stars" shaped highlights.
I think from the reviews I've read that's also the case with the apo summicron when you close down the aperture. So that's the problem comparing the bokeh at f 2.0 of the both lenses because the apo is wide open and the lux closed one stop (ninja stars). But naturally for the comparison you have stop the lux down. This is the main reason why I prefer the pre asph version of the summilux although it is a little bit softer because the aperture blades have a different shape. Thank you very much for the effort you put in that channel
Thank you for watching the video and your detailed feedback. You are absolutely right about the stopping down of the Lux for comparison reasons. Highly appreciate your detailed description of the phenomenon. All in all both lenses are fantastic and only a few lenses on the market can even reach this picture quality.
Thank you very much for your answer. Yes you're right, the lenses are both fantastic and for me the best and smallest lenses on the market. These are only minor issues. In the comparison I like the bokeh of the apo summicron more, although I don't own this lens and ( unfortunately) think that I'll Never own it....
Who knows. Maybe one day you will have one. 😉
Interesting the difference between the two lenses at f2. I’ve sat on the fence for a while now as to which one to select. The warmth and painterly rendering of the 1.4 makes me think it’s the one to go for. Thank you
Thanks for comparison. I actually found my Voigtlander 50mm f2 APO Lanthar with similar rendering, but slightly more pop in color than the Leica lenses. Very surpising 🙌👌👍
Thanks for watching
Thank you for the comparison, I also have both of the APO50 and 50Lux ASPH and I did test on my M10-R, the 50lux definitely have enough resolving power for the 40MP sensor on the M10-R and I do agree your finding, the 50APO does have cooler color balance and higher contrast, also the 50Lux has less define bokeh. Very well made comparison and video Markus
Thanks a lot for watching and your feedback. Good to hear that the results are similar on the M10-R. Beautiful camera.
I have the M10 Monochrom. The contrasty nature of the APO 50 is second to none for the B&W shooting I do. I also have the 35 cron and the 50 lux. The APO stays on my Mono all the time. Looking to get an M11P for the color shots. Enjoyed the video even though I'm 3 years late to the party.
Thanks for watching and your comment. The M10 mono and the APO is an amazing combo indeed. Enjoy the M11P once you get it.
At 12:30 and 15:30 when you compare these to lenses you should consider that the Summilux picture is actually brighter. The Summicron is a F2 lens but the T-Stop is higher, that means you get a darker exposure. Also with yellow hues, reaching the maximum saturation at a higher lumination you get the effect of an warmer image ( at least in that lighting conditions)
But that doesnt mean your assumptions are wrong, i just found a reason to geak out a bit :)
Thanks a lot for this elaboration. Someone else mentioned the T-Stop also. There is definitely something to that. But in any case I don’t want to take sides on either lens. I guess in the end everyone needs to decide which look they like better and I merely wanted to show the look side by side. Thanks a lot for watching. Highly appreciate your feedback.
Would you be able to show us how to see the t stop?
Each of these lenses is extraordinary. However, only a small handful of the viewers of this video could exploit it for fine photos. The vast majority should take heart: you can find superlative used Leica lenses for a fraction of the price of a new APO or Summilux. They will serve your photographic needs just as well.
Thanks for watching and your comment. You are right. Many amazing used Leica lenses on the market.
50mm is a portrait length. Would like a comparison with a model and v2 of the Lux.
Definitely enjoy the APO lenses, but I am partial to APO in my other brand of lenses. Unfortunately in Leica, APO is out of my reach financially however I am very happy with the results I get with my proletariat ASPH Summicrons. LOL
Thanks for watching. I hear you. The APO 50mm is insanely expensive and the non APO versions are amazing as well. Wouldn’t worry too much.
I have the summilux (black chrome model) and I thought about switching to the APO. But when I bring it down to 1.4 and snap a picture my mind changes. Something about the summilux just speaks to me. It has a very unique character that makes it different to any other lens I have. It makes me excited to take pictures.
I can fully see your point. The photos at f/1.4 are amazing especially when it makes you excited to take photos. That is the most important when it comes to gear decisions if you ask me.
But comparing one lens stopped down vs wide open is not the same thing! Summicron vignettes wide open.
Thanks for watching. Absolutely valid point.
It is very distracting and takes away from immediate comparisons when you cut to your face talking in between comparisons of the Summicron and Summilux; definitely need more of the back to back comparison shots without cutting to a completely different scene.
Thanks for watching and your feedback. Will keep this in mind for the next time I do a comparison video.
I have a 50 'Lux paired with my M10-R. It's a great combination, and although admittedly, I would have preferred the APO 'Cron over the 'Lux. But price combined with the extra stop of light made it an easy decision to make. 😁
Totally. I think you run an amazing combination. I never shot with the the R. Must be fascinating to see the lens render the light beautiful on that chip. Thanks for watching and your feedback.
I own the Summilux myself and i am super happy with it. I am fond of the additional light i get with it and i just couldn't justify the extra cost for the APO since the results of the two are rather comparable. We should all get a lens that keeps us shooting, no matter which lens it is 📸
Thanks for watching and your feedback Bruno. Totally agree. We should all shoot the lenses that do the job for us and the lenses are definitely comparable. The lux is brighter indeed. Happy shooting.
Dear Markus, your video comes at a time when I’ve been thinking about it. Although I only own the 50mm Summicron silver edition and am super satisfied for my streetphotography. I tried a Summilux 50mm 1.4 also for a long time. But both lenses are from the 90’s and perhaps not as sharp as today’s new M lenses, which are adapted to the latest digital sensors. I had already speculated to buy the 50mm Summicron APO, but actually you only really need this lens if you want absolutely sharp pictures, or need a larger specific cut-out or for a large print. For the majority of users, it’s only about the particular look. This may also have older M lenses, but maybe not so sharp but the own look is really more important than the sharpest photo.
Thanks for watching and your feedback! Yes, the APO stands a lot for technical perfection, especially when you look at a M10-R. The rest is all about personal taste and preference. All Leica lenses are fantastic and rank amongst the best lenses in the world.
I wish we can see the landscape difference between them at f/2, since they are really designed to be shot wide open.
This is correct.
Very informative. One thing I noticed is that you might have mistaken that the Summicron has better highlight retention in the portrait. I believe that this is vignetting. We know that the Summilux (especially when at wider apertures) has less contrast, so highlights should also be smoothly rolled off. I think in your comparison, the Summicron is actually transmitting less light, through T-stop rating or vignetting, and that is saving some highlight detail.
But thank you for all this work you put in! I have a Summilux ASPH and have been lusting after an APO Summicron. This shows I can save my money because the differences are so minimal for the massive cost.
Definitely the APO is a hard sell for owners of a Summilux. The difference are not day and night and the Summilux is fantastic.
Hello Marcus, another great comparison here. I watched the video again today, over a long span. I personally have a Summilux 50, the Black Chrome version, and compared it briefly with an APO, and here are my findings. 1, the APO is light! With all brass construction my Lux feels very hefty. 2, The Lux seem to have a more vibrant color rendition. 3, the APO has better bokeh rendition imo, because I don't like the aperture blade shape of the Lux. 4, the Lux has a strange green-ish cast in the shadows on my M10-R. To be honest I've failed to build a relationship with my Lux although the finish looks rather timeless. But it is more flexible when mounting on my film bodies with its big aperture. I guess nothing is perfect, eh? Lol.
Thanks a lot for watching and your comment. The color rendition of the lux also surprised me. Couldn’t agree more though when you say that nothing is perfect 😎 Thanks also for making me aware that the Lux has a greenish cast in the shadows on the M10-R. Haven’t heard this before.
I guess you shot on auto wb. The wb looked off in a couple of images in fact (to cold in the first shots for example).
T stops seem to be a little bit different too. The apo looks more like a f 2.4 lens. The lux is brighter at f2.0. More contrast in the apo and probably a fit sharper wide open but not by much. Very interesting for me. I own a lux and don’t feel the need for the apo 😀
Thanks for watching and your feedback. Yes, the Lux is indeed brighter at the same aperture setting. I shot on Auto WB which I should not have done retrospectively. But the shots have the same WB. If I would edit them I would correct the WB in the raw editor but in the video I left the images untouched to so the lenses are comparable at the same WB (wrong WB or not). But next time I would correct it manually before shooting. Thanks for pointing it out.
i's a summarit ;)
I already have a 1964 rigid Summicron 50 and am looking for a vintage Summilux M. The old Cron is still a nice performer on the M9.
Nice. The old Cron is a sweet lens. Also from the look. Perfect match with the M9.
I was just scrolling through youtube and yes, it's same-same (but still different). The Summilux 50mm IS an apochromatic design. Which is why the 75mm apo summicron can be designed based on the 50 summilux.
Thanks for watching and pointing out that the Lux is an apochromatic design.
@@TheMPhotography Imagine if it was named the APO-Summilux to differentiate from the last model though, sounds pretty cool to me!
very cool, can you confirm this was Summilux 11892? I agree with you that one isn't necessarily better than the other, it really depends on the use. The APO is indeed impressive at its ability to resolve and I find the color fidelity to be more accurate/neutral. I personally use the 11892 Summilux and 11826 Summicron (the non APO version). I love the lux for low light and portrait situations, and the Summicron for general travel/street. Curious how the much cheaper 11826 compares against the APO.
Thanks J L. I will ask my friend Gilles whose lens it is which version of the Summilux it was and get back to you.
I checked back. This was the 11891 version of the Summilux.
@@TheMPhotography right, cause it was the black one, makes sense. Thanks for the follow up!
Nice video. However, I had difficulty correlating the Summilux vs Summicron photo. Given the production it wasn’t clear to me image came from which lens. My brain and eye was just not fast enough to read the label at the bottom of the frame and actually perceive the image. Flipping back and forth is a great way of making a comparison, I just wasn’t sure which was which. Nevertheless, I appreciate the video and enjoy your study of photography. Thanks.
Thanks for your feedback.
I prefer the rendering of the Lux and the advantage of f1.4. Given this and the big price difference, I think the Lux is a no brainer (if one could say this when it comes to Leica lenses😅). Thanks for the comparison😉👋!
Thanks for watching and your feedback Axel. The f1.4 speaks indeed for itself. Especially for low light situations. I like it how you loosely use the word no-brainer in the context of Leica lens prices 🙈 I should find a way to build this into future videos 😉
Nice review! Imho..Its Intresting that its diminishing returns when it comes to the higher quality apo. One really needs to looks at the application when using such lenses. Ie product/portrait/landscape.Where the apo excels, and the most benefit would be had is in the monochrome and the m10r. Enlargement is also an factor. Hopefully you can test this if you ever review the m10r
Thanks for your feedback Marc. Yes exactly. It totally depends on the use case and it comes down to personal taste. If one is chasing sharpness and resolution I would say that it is probably hard to beat the APO. Especially on the M Monochrome or M10R.
I prefer the Summicron. Since I'm gravitating towards a 28mm purchase, I would love for you to do a similar video with Leica 28mm lenses......if possible.
Thanks for watching Peter. I am not sure if I can do a similar video with the 28mm lenses any time soon. Same issue. I don't have access to those lenses unfortunately. I personally own only the Elmarit which I bought because it is the smallest 28mm. The Lux and Summicron were too big and heavy. But if I get the chance to get my hands on those one day there could be a video.
This video really helpful for me to choose betwen this 2 particular lenses. Thanks for making the video
Thanks for watching. Glad to hear it helped you.
Nice comparison and observations. I too own the Summilux. But I wonder how a comparison like this would now fare on the M11 at full resolution.
Thank you. I haven’t had the chance to test the M11. But my gut feeling tells me that the differences become more apparent and that the APO lenses will outshine the other lens lines. The question for many will still be if the uptick in price for an APO Summicron is worth it.
@@TheMPhotography There is another choice which is the Voigtlander APO Lanthar. I myself have gotten the 35mm apo Voigtlander since the Leica is out of my reach and I've to say it's a super sharp lens. However, in Jono slack's M11 review he talks about how older lenses will be fine on the new sensor. Clearly the APO's will resolve detail more, but that does't imply older lenses will do badly. To some extent it looks like older lenses character will shine even better with the M11. It may be the best M body Camera and at that resolution potentially a lifetime one.
Definitely the best M body so far. And you are absolutely right that old lenses will work without any issues. The new sensor will still retain the character of each lens. For sharpness resolution (if that is the main criteria) the APO Summicrons are the best suited so far.
The summilux looks a bit brighter (T stop?), maybe a histogram can confirm this. Would be interesting to compare contrast with exposures matched.
It is a tiny bit brighter indeed with otherwise identical exposure settings. What do you mean with T stop?
@@TheMPhotography roughly: T stop measures light, F stop measures aperture & focal length. Also the lens profiles probably do 'something' internally, who knows...
Got it. First time I heard the term. I think you are right. The Leica wizards must have done some magic there internally with the lens design.
Super Vergleich, vielen Dank! Was ich aber tatsächlich schon machen würde ist der Vergleich Apo bei 2.0 vs Summilux bei 1.4 weil es ja auch um die Frage geht ob mir der eine Stop mehr was bringt. Ich habe beide Objektive und das Apo ist tatsächlich das bessere bei genauer Betrachtung. Das Summilux macht aber die schöneren Bilder und zwar genau bei 1.4 :) Trotzdem sehr informativ. Danke für die viele Arbeit. LG
Danke Dir!
Why do you say A.P.O. and not Apo, (for apochromatique) ?
However, I use a summilux 50 since I bought my first Leica, M6. Currently on a M262. In my opinion, it's the best size / sharp / fast, ratio. And used, you can get it (mint) for ½ the price of a new one. So I won't change it for a F/2 lens, or even not for a F/0.95 one.
Thanks for watching and your feedback. Yeah, it’s weird. Usually I say APO 🤔 Thanks for pointing it out.
Excellent test . I have Summicron 50mm4th, 35mm5th and 75mmAPO. The last lens which I bought was 75mm in 2018 . Now I am thinking around Summilux and Noctilux F1.2 . The view finder of M10 series are more suitable for 75mm . M11は裏面照射になるかも
For me the APO is too sharp. But I shoot people for the most part. I'm happy that I chose the summilux for my M10 eventually.
Thanks for watching and your feedback. The M10 with the Summilux is for sure an amazing combination for shooting people.
Beautiful video!
Thanks for the information about both 50 mm
Thanks, i have both lenses and never compared head to head at f2, thought they were the same but you proved me wrong big time
Thanks for watching and your comment. Yeah, I also mostly thought the lenses differ by just the aperture alone but their different design leads to very different results.
Love what you do and your candor. Please keep posting. Seal.
Thank you Seal! Will do.
I really enjoyed your comparison, comments and the pictures themselves! Which RAW photo editor do you use?
Thanks a lot. I use Capture One as my RAW editor.
I like the APO Summicron it’s the one with more contrast👍🏻❗️
Yes. For me it also looks like the one with more contrast.
@@TheMPhotography But... It's probably been 10 years since I did my comparisons of lux and regular cron.. The $1000 used cron has the same thing in that regard. The blues and greens are richer. The lux is better on people.
Interesting post thank you. Could have been slight y better if the switching between photos of the two lenses was slower.
Thanks for watching and your feedback.
Really awesome review！ would u please let us download those original pictures? Thanks!
why does nobody ever talk about the Noctilux 50? Is it because of the price? or is it not as good as APO Summicron?
Wouldn't say better or worse than the APO. It is a very soft lens and totally changes the look of a photo. For me the shots with the Nocti look more like paintings. Personally not my cup of coffee. If you ask me it cannot be compared directly. One either likes that look or not. It is also very expensive and super heavy.
@@TheMPhotography right.... it seems less sterile and Japanese like, and a bit softer... you're right. Just so few videos on it out there.
Nobody near me in my circles has one. I would love to do a video on it one day. But you are right. Hands on information about it is scarce. I had the privilege to take a few shots with the 50mm and 75mm Nocti two years ago. Way before I had this channel. But since then I have not had one in my hands. A good source of information about the Nocti is Thorsten Overgaard.
Nobody ever ? Come on. There is lots to see and read about it. For its size and weight alone the Noctilux is seldomly used as your main walk around lens so this comparison actually makes more sense. But a shoot out between all three (why nobody ever talks about the 50 summarit - lol - a fine lens by the way) would have been fun to watch. But on the other hand who shoots a Noctilux at f8 ....
Agree. If you buy a Nocti you want to shoot it wide open and you want the artsy bokeh. And also agree that it is rarely used in run and gun situations. Summarit would be fun to try out but comes down to me having access to one which I don't unfortunately :-(
This is a wonderful video, but in general, music is rarely necessary for good videos and presentations. Thank you so much and keep producing please. RS. Canada
Richard, thank you for your kind words.
Any chance we could download the dng?
Thanks for all your videos, I enjoy them.
Thanks a lot Alan. Glad to hear you enjoy them.
Really nice review, thank you!
Thank you Jimmy. Glad you liked it.
Great video, thanks! I have always wanted an 50mm APO after testing one 2 years ago....but I hear they can often have problems and need to be sent back to Leica for repair. Have you heard of this? Thx.
Thanks for watching. I never heard that these lenses often have problems. I own mine for two years now and it never let me down so far.
@@TheMPhotography I've never had a problem either. Only that the aperture ring was a little loose for my liking.
Hello, and thank you for your wonderful work. I’m awaiting an apo for my Sigma fp. This could be a tiny powerhouse.
What System76 computer is that - I’m looking for a new photographic focussed computer?
Kind regards
Thanks for watching and a sweet powerhouse you will have there. I am using the System76 Oryx Pro.
The M Photography Thanks mate, your videos are reaching a very grateful audience in Australia.
Ich bedanke mich sehr für diese Videos. Ich würde gerne ein Summilux Silber kaufen (Gebraucht) was denkst du einen richtigen Preis wäre? 2600 Euro? Danke Maurizio aus München
Maurizio, danke für dein Feedback. Es ist schwierig den Preis zu beurteilen, denn es gibt einige Revisionen von der Linse und der Preis hängt von der jeweiligen Revision ab. Kenne deb Summilux Markt derzeit nicht sehr gut. Grundlegend hören sich 2600 Euro fair an für so eine exzellente Linse.
is this R series? also, are these version 1 or version 2?
Thanks for watching Sam. This is the M series of lenses. I bought the APO in 2019. The Summilux was from my friend Gilles. I don't know which version. But not the very latest.
@@TheMPhotography Thank you for your response! Have you heard any difference between the M series and the R series?
Unfortunately not and I also have never shot any R series lens yet.
This walk is straight out of Pulp Fiction ,
Please, same test on a m10r or a sl2 👍😃
I don’t have access to neither of those cameras. But I would love to see those lenses on 40+ MegaPix sensors.
Uih.... spannender Kanal. Mal etwas ganz anderes. Da freue ich mich schon auf mehr Videos. Abo natürlich auch von mir! VG Jogi
Danke schön lieber Jogi. Und natürlich gleichfalls.
Pictures shooted are shown too fast!
Thanks for your feedback.
Together, there's lenses are a summum of technological achievement. The bad news: they are horrifyingly expensive. The good news?
YOU CAN TAKE SUPERB PHOTOS WITH EQUIPMENT THAT COSTS ONE TENTH OF WHAT THESE THINGS COST.
Fully agree. It is not the lens that makes a photo good.
Summilux is the winner, for my taste.
Thanks for watching and your feedback Bjarni.
I am a Summicron kind of guy.
I wish photography videos would lose the lame techno muzak. They all use it even if they’re talking about old school photo equipment.
I just subscribed because I love your aesthetic and the fact that you are a fellow Leica shooter! I would love if you offered some feedback on the videos I’ve posted.
Thank you Kevin. Congratulations on your first M :-) watched your latest video. You teased the next video. Curious.
intrestingly didnt likes apo much . :D