3 Spray Foam Problems
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- Is Spray foam good enough for high performance air sealing?
Jordan takes a look at a few reasons why spray foam might not get you the air sealing performance you were hoping for.
Huge thanks to our Show sponsors Polywall, Huber, Dorken Delta, Prosoco, Rockwool & Viewrail for helping to make these videos possible! These are all trusted companies that Matt has worked with for years and trusts their products in the homes he builds. We would highly encourage you to check out their websites for more info.
www.Poly-Wall.com
www.Dorken.com
www.Huberwood.com
www.Prosoco.com
www.Viewrail.com
www.Rockwool.com
I really enjoyed Jordan’s presentation. A refreshing add to the channel Hope to see more 👍
Sticks tenaciously.... I think the master has taught grasshopper well.
Sign of a good business owner. Staff trained well enough to replace them.
Mr. Collier nah. What the business owner and the staff does are two different jobs.
@@crunch9876 so, owners cant train their staff? You sound dumb.
Great video! It cannot be stressed enough - installation, installation, installation! Insulation is only as good as the installation- as with most processes in construction. The gaps at the rafters are not deficiencies in the insulation- rather the installation. This contractor obviously did not care and is an easy job to pick apart. Unfortunately when it comes to insulation people only seem to care about how little they can pay. There will always be someone who will do it for less, and you end up getting what you pay for in the end. Thanks Jordan!
Matt, more videos with Jordan. I like the no bullshit approach. Keep em coming!
Well done Jordan. Very nice and informative presentation.
Thanks 👍
Great work, Matt. Your quality approach especially with an inclination to Swiss level craftmanship is admirable.
"Swiss level craftsmanship" what a ridiculous self absorbed and arrogant crap to say.
I really like that you're mentioning how products and methods will vary by climate. Keep up the excellent work, guys!
Justin Valentini
start a foam commercial style format to the spray for the building start a foam pit to spray home house
Rookie spraying, can't blame the foam
Facts
I've been spraying 2lb Sprayfoam insulation for 8 years in Canada...works great and haven't had major issues. It looks to me like he tried to spray 4" at once or was spraying too hot....you shouldn't spray thicker than 2" per pass. spraying too thick will cause the foam to 'burn ' in the middle and will kill your density and R value
on a side note here.... that was 1/2 lb. foam not 2lb. you can apply 1/2 lb thicker as long as your not blowing back the material. you are however correct in saying that about the 2lb foam. and on another side note.... i did the spray foam for over 10 years in the states. and none of my jobs never looked that shitty. whoever did that job was not trained properly.
Personally from my experience I think it happened to me only when it was so cold outside that when spraying..the cold reacts with the hot temperatures from the foam and makes it pull away like this... never happened with closed cell. (I’ve only been spraying for almost a year so I’m not so experienced yet! 😁)
I know little about Spray Foam , but looking at it. It looks like a lot of uneven logs( sprayed) where it does bond well to what was sprayed. I hope i have described that? Sprayed tooooo cold? Not like what I watched from Spray Foam Jones.
XL spray foam you can spray up to 8 inches open cell the closed cell is the one that you can't spray more the 4 inches but now is a lot of options of chemical that you can spray more than 4" closed cell ...you got no clue what you're talking about i been spraying since i was 22 years old im 40 now f you need to know more about foam come to north carolina the problem on this particular job is moisture you need to heat the house with all Windows open for 30 min to an hr and then closed the windows heat the house keep the heater close to the are were you going to start to spray and you never gonna have that problem..
@XL Sprayfoam Solutions, but naturally of course you going to say it’s a good product. You is the guy installing/selling it. 🙈
That failure looks like application direction. Remember on your ride along foam videos the ‘operator’ (your word not mine) stayed the first shot on the 45 to the corner all the way around. Just like other sealants it’s important to have the bond into the corner and on both the sheet and the stud.
Really not sure why more crews aren’t two people. Four eyes, someone to hold spray shields.
The difficulty is that adhesion from the foam is from expanding into the cavity. Spray pattern is really important
BEST video yet about air infiltration in a house.
Love the cup! I found one full of trash in an interior wall once! Makes you feel real good that your walls have become a garbage can :) Love the pride going in these places. That alone was probably the worst thing I saw in this video!
A good "on...the Build Show" tagline at the end. Another great video by Jordan. That cup at the end was crazy. We could see the sprayer did a poor job, but that is next level. Finally, not being sarcastic, I genuinely like the word "overneath" you used. I want to work that into my lexicon.
I caught that too. Overneath. I also dislike "overtop" but that's a different beef I guess.
Awesome video, thanks Jordan!
Great job, Jordan! Thanks
Pro clima products work really well for air sealing. Contega HF works great in stud bays between studs and outside sheeting and tescon vana tape works well for flat sealing seams. They also have great membranes for interior and exterior.
I was surprised that you did not mention improper curing of the spray foam when it is applied improperly (too thick, usually, but a bad mix ratio could also be problematic) or outside environmental conditions for the install (too hot or too cold).
Good information without taking an hour and a half to cover it. Well done.
I am glad you included the bit about the taco bell cup because we have all seen it. I have seen it in concrete pours.
LOL! I didn't know Taco bell made concrete additives & air sealing products. I guess that will Taco Bell restaurants take over entirely the fast food sector in a few years (reference to Demolition Man Movie)
@@guytech7310 nice reference. Air five.
I may know of a couple of buildings slabs that have Nextel's phones that would not stop alerting
That's wild. It makes you question all of their training and credibility. Whoever drank that cup would be fired on the spot.
Have been anxious to hear your thoughts of Off-Gassing and Long Term Risks of these products and what we should consider when using for our applications
Oh yeah, another good question..
Arshaad Yar - considering these foams were developed for NASA, who has insanely strict requirements on off-gassing, it isn’t very hard to find that these foams are totally safe *_if_* used properly.
There is zero issue with off gassing if used properly
TheEarthDoctor1 sigh you made one good point. Andthat was the other point the rest are blatant lies.
First off all they do not keep offgasing when mixed properly and applied properly the finished result is chemically inert.
Yes they are toxic in a fire but so is cellulose and fiberglass insulation (Rockwool is not toxic in a fire, only fire rates insulation)
They are no more problematic during demolition than most other construction material including plywood. The dust of fully cured spray foam isn’t even harmful (Beyond regular construction dust, cement dust and rile is much worse for your health)
You say you doubt you’ll see contractors recycling the bits. And your point is?!?!?! Do you think they recycle Fiberglas insulation? No. Rockwool? No. Cellulose? No. Expanded or extruded polystyrene? No.
So what’s your point? What part of construction is recyclable? I install recycle roofing, and I I’m pretty sure only about 1 percent or less of construction companies do.
Or do you think anything besides metal is typically recycled in a demolition? Lol and even then it’s really only like copper.
I don’t know what fantasy world you live in.
Btw I don’t even install foam insulation unless specifically asked by the client or by the architects plans, I recommend Rockwool it cellulose.
But I just can’t stand blatant liars with an agenda.
In regard to it getting in your water supply, that is a huge problem with ALL construction debris, and that is why federal fines for construction waste getting into the water supply are typically in the $100,000’s per incident. Of course those are not enforced strictly.
i actually worked with this product . after spraying was finished we would always open windows /doors to create draft for ventilation then remove masks.
Wow that was great ! Thank you!
Excellent video Brother !
a friend of mine who is no longer with us was on to all this stuff and MORE long ago.the BEST builder,piker, and song writer to ever live in my opion. r.i.p.my friend!
We went all through this in Canada in the '80s. After sealing the house up, you have to incorporate air to air heat exchangers in order to exchange all the air in the house depending on local code and circumstances. Do you have five dogs? More air changes.
Under the sills we staple a "sill-plate gasket" before standing the wall up.
But stick-frame should be used when you live near a sawmill. Otherwise, masonry is becoming the structural material for low rise buildings when it's thermal mass is captured inside the envelope. We have to leave the trees standing whenever possible.
Thanks for the Product tips and fyi on Spray foam application issues!
Nice tips thank you!
Excellent presentation. Thank you for covering this.
You and a couple other channels have me rolled over on doing spray foam in my travel trailer build. My drawings, my welding, my drilling and riveting the Alum skin, ....... You guys rock with effective energy efficiency ideas!!
My target is to heat and nightlight my trailer with a candle in mild winters here in N Tx and to use A/C only when outdoors gets above 90. Spray-in foam is the $ effective, time efficient, structural stiffener that foil laminated foamboard is not. Thanks for your perspective!
He found the last builders trophy. XD I always find that fun. Found a wine cork stuck to a stud with a nail. Thats how you know your builders are proud! Not sure what to think of a taco bell cup haha.
I did internal clay plasters myself with additional sealing here or there with cheap materials but lots of attention to detail and got 0.2 average ach50; I also designed the house with air tightness and no heat bridges insulation in mind; I used 0,5 cords of beech to heat the house this winter (the heated volume of the house is about 24000 cubic feet; temperatures outside down to -4 F and 32 F average) my stove was also used to heat the domestic water and some cooking
Is it a tiny house?
@@vapeurdepisse 24k cubic feet or 650m3 not tiny
Good video-if the concrete wood interface is so prone to air leakage wouldnt it be easier and better for contractors to add adhesive or caulking directly to the foundation and then lay the rim joist onto it?
Do you use the blue product on the bottom side of the bottom plate during a new build? Or do you just use it to seal the joint from the plate to the concrete? If that is the case and you don't use it under the plate, what do you use? Thanks for the great videos!
Nice video very informative.
Good clip, Jordan.
Hey Matt, I am curious if the cell foam on the interior acts as a vapor retardant and you apply a second vapor retardant on the exterior will there then be the possibility of an issue developing with moisture being trapped between the two vapor restrictive layers.
That was a very good video full of information.
If you like mold and rot: yes. Making a house airtight on the outside of the insulation is a really stupid idea. Even the holes in the insulation of the original house would be better because the moisture could evaporate over time. The sealing will keep it indefinitely between the frames.
Sven, I keep thinking about the house as a glass jar that I hold to my mouth and exhale into. The moisture starts collecting. You are correct. Giving credit to my expectations of that foil wrap, there's no way the interior will match the seal of the exterior. A boiled pot of water without the exhaust hood on, the same with a shower, a window left open during a rain, plumbing or roof leaks, or daily living--the house is soon a mushroom without moisture exhausting mechanicals. If the electricity goes out, a generator fails, or any component of the air exchange system goes out, let the mold begin.
Good stuff, good vid, good job!
Great talking points!
I have a house built in 1890 and it is a vertical barge board house. I replaced some of them that were rotting at the base area where the sill is. Then wrapped that with black felt paper 15# I think. then added OSB 1/2". Then used two ply aluminum bubble wrap 6' H x the run of the house overlapping by 3" (bottom first then the top of course). Then added my hearty back wood themed siding on top of that. Thoughts?
I live in Florida. Our spray foam installation was faulty. Our builder didn't know much about spray foam and the installer apparently didn't either. Our ACH was 30 to 40 and we had mold in our attic after a year due to HVAC duct condensation dripping onto ceiling sheet rock. Every house in our brand new development had the same problem. Spray foam is only good if it's properly installed. Problem is in finding good installers.
Interesting here in Finland we use aluminum coated grooved foam sheets and then spray the gaps with foam which are then taped over with aluminum tape.
Never even heard of using insulation foam like that though it makes a kind of sense if you have truck full of stuff to pump it in and not those tiny pistol cans.
As for K values in this climate 4500mm of glass wool equals about 120mm of foam sheeting.
My Grandpa was a self employed contractor and he used to take me on jobs when I was 7-11 years old. I would make a small wooden box (like 2"x2") and put stuff in there like a small toy with my information and throw it in the cement he was pouring without him knowing, or Wright on the 2x4s that where going to be sealed off. or throw something in a pipe that was going to welded shut..... I just found it fascinating that one day maybe 100 year from now someone will tear up the cement, house or fence and find it. Kinda like the taco bell cup haha.
Hey Jordan,great content!
Did ya’ll put the allumaflash because the osb was already there?
Would you have gone with zip and tape if ya’ll had done it from the beginning?
About to start building a home and trying to get as much knowledge as I can once I get with my builder. Thanks so much!
I don't see a reply to your question let me know if they ended up replying to it I had the exact same question
Question: I have an old metal morgan building / shed. I need to insulate it to store some supplies for my buisness.
Its unfinished just studs and metal sides. Its fairly water tight. I can see some light cracks where the metal side panels overlap.
What is the best way to insulate? I live just outside austin, texas. Im thinking of caulking gaps then using silver bubble insulation and then a layer of pink solid foam insulation. Before putting on a plywood wall to screw shelving to.
Or should i do something more?
After watching videos, im concerned about water infiltration with spray foam, and little more r value for shed and insect infiltration.
Very informative.
Good info. I just walked a home being built by Meritage and the foam insulation has many areas where there is 3 inches left to fill the foam to the stud and I found 2 spots with gaps large enough that I could put my hand in and touch the foam exterior lath. This might pass minimum occupancy by the city inspector but definitely not up to par. You should do a video on what the difference is between building a home to industry quality standard vs minimum occupancy vs building a quality home.
Foam is only as good as the Installer. It can't install itself. Separate the two please!
Makes me want to go with rockwool.
Nice info. I will definitely apply it. Can you tell me what the R value should be when doing spray foam on your roof for a closed envelope house? I have been told 3 inches of closed cell is enough. Thanks
Eric van zeyl - I know you didn’t ask me but I can help answer the question, I do spray foam and 3 inches of close cell is going to get you an r-value of 19 to 21 depending on the brand of the foam., if it was my house I would do 4 inches of closed cell to make sure you get the r-value you need in an attic.. and 2 inches in the walls.. if is open cell you can do 3 1/2 in the walls to 5 1/2 and 5 1/2 to 8 inches in the roof, depending where you live.. thanks
Air barrier vapor open product for colder climates on the outside.
That new AeroBarrier product would it seal that large crack?.
Could you do it before the drywall was in place?
Seems like Less cleanup?.
Or is the stuff a brittle cake product and needs some rigidity
of everything close to being finished. Is it hydro-curing product?.
From someone thinking about having a home built there is a lot to learn to be able to know what to ask for.
If you have any plumbing questions just hit me up on my channel. 👍
Great channel!
Any spray foam/sealing tips; specifically for an older, all wood, home?
Have a look at Knauf Ecoseal: _Air sealing with spray-on caulking_ - czcams.com/video/cb1S30sr5AQ/video.html
Overneath. Good word!
To check if its filled all you need to do is use a infrared camera/thermostat and you will be able to easily tell because of the difference in temperatures....or even poke something through it and check if the resistance stays the same until it bottoms out..then just fill the hole back in after checking
Matt. We are doing a major remodel on a early 80s brick home in FL Panhandle. Nothing between the brick and studs but thermoply. We have decided to go with sprayfoam and encapsulate the house. Should we install a fresh air pipe?
any thoughts about the osb trapped between 2 vapor closed surfaces?
Great video
What should one do before applying spray foam to an old home? Should you check for rot/ damage before spraying? What about electrical wires and pipes? Do they need to be inspected before spraying? Is it better to not spray them and use regular batting for easy access, if repair is needed? I have no insulation under my floor. The home is lifted above flood level. Basement under the home floods once every few years.
Had to double check my play back speed 😂 get some rest Matt!! Haha get well soon man.
Matt I like the many products that you show on your program, but are for the most part unavailable where I live in Northeastern Wisconsin. Primarily I'm talking about the Delta dorken products. What I need is some way to get access to these products to buy them.
How are you addressing vapor drive when you're using PolyWall Aluma Flash(typical rubberized asphalt backing membrane) with a Water Vapor Transmission of 0.014 perm(E96B) on the exterior and a closed cell foam on the interior? Essentially you've created a double vapor barrier that could potentially cause moisture entrapment issues. I'm surprised you didn't use a product like VaproShield WrapShield SA with a perm rating of 50(E96B) to allow rapid outward drying yet it boasts some of the best Air Permeance and Water Resistance among current available build wraps(WRB).
I need suggestion by you guy what impact can be there if we apply spray foam in between a double brick wall by maintains a distance of 4” approximately to control temp. Is it ok to maintain the temp inside the room
Basically in the simplest terms moisture such as humidity or damp lumber will cause the foam to cure faster reducing its expansion time cooler ambient temperature causes the foam to expand slower but if you get to cool it'll stop the reaction all together
What do you think of the home kits for sparing a few walls on 2.6 ?
Thanks for a feedback
omg please take over for risinger... your videos are so much better
Got to talk about insulation and air infiltration prevention! Ted
What effect does nailing siding through the foil wrap have? I have done several tear offs of siding on buildings with tyvek in Vermont that were 15 to 20 yrs old and found the tyvek was extremely brittle and worthless , apparently it breaks down even without uv exposure.
Can’t put foil on the outside in Vt though.
Have you guys ever done retro fit foam inside of existing walls in old houses?
Do you have any videos discussing spray foam chemical failures and how to make sure that the contractor is using the correct mixture? I have read stories of spray foam causing fumes and horrible odors when not proper. A video about this would be great.
I like this guy.
Just call Absolute Pro Insulation. I’ve gotten multiple blower door test with a 0.00 air flow. Pretty amazing on what the foam can do when it’s done by a Absolute Professional.
ZERO ACH is not safe or healthy. What your saying is a person could actually suffocate from a lack of oxygen in the house. Get a family in there, and unless someone opens a door or window, you'll get oxygen depletion in only a number of hours.
If you reading zero ACH, I suspect you are doing something wrong in your testing.
I usually just clench to keep my air from exfiltrating.
Does spray foam repel or soak up moisture?
It would be nice to see insulation reviews start to show and include just how effective cork can be. Also, cork has many benefits to the environment. Is renewable, carbon sink, water resistant, vapor permeable, is almost perfect as insulation.
I am curious as to what would be a good barrier/ wrap for here in northern Kansas, we see summer temperatures in the 110F area and winter temperatures as low as -20 F. We can also see 60 mph winds with the storms we have and often see 30 mph winds without storms.
There's some bright orange spray form sort of "blowing up" (looks like a squid) in the brick exterior corner of the front door we want to rent. Any idea why it bulbs out?
So if you spray between the rafters can the vents on roof be eliminated?
You don't like the foam under the footer but praise some blue dyed caulking. Is there some kind of proof that it won't shrink, dry or crack? Is the footer foam rated well enough for many years of dead loads and heat cycling, moisture movement, etc?
Question - what about all the holes from siding app. ? I put o. c. styrofoam on the inside under the sh. rock. Worst is my sliding windows. I have to seal all that infiltration but I have it controlled. I'm in the great white north.
man if they stuck a tacobell cup in there just imagine all the other jerkoff things they did to that home. I feel bad for the owners.
Yeah, it's one thing to hire a crew that doesn't pick up after themselves...another thing when they throw their trash IN YOUR WALL. Holy crap, those people need taken to the malpractice agency and scolded.
I was working on a house and found a beer bottle in the wall, no joke. It explained a lot.
I found porno mags from the year I was born under the vanity in a bathroom I was remodeling once.
@@thomassteele-sheets7471 I've been doing work on my house and when I air sealed and reinsulated my attic I found what I like to call the previous owners "sin stash". I think the wife was fairly religious, and so stashed in the old attic insulation was a paper bag of porn from the 70's, beer bottle caps, and a box of Twinkies.
@@troyb3394 were those twinkies still any good? It could definitely bring closure to that twinkies never go bad debate. And these were from 87 at my house.
I actually learned a lot! With so many people talking out there,, He was easy to listen to. why do I believe him?? - well he sounds like he knows what he is talking about LOL I LOVE that he gives the whole WHY/HOW- cuz I'd be asking!!! But I believe what he is saying is true b/c he can explain it simply.
☆☆It helps that he isn't hard to look at 🌞
Basically just get a good spray foam job done by am experienced contractor and you save money on additional works.
OSB looks like wet car board if it gets wet a few times this is job security for builders. Use Advantech OSB at least for the bottom 4 feet then get cheap mistint paint and paint all osb inside and out. This video shows half pound foam, all foam contractors will try to talk you into buying this because the job goes really fast, the 2 pound foam is going to cost more but a thin layer of that inside and out is the best sealer, vapor barrier and high R value and keeps the OSB from burning the house down from the built in E84 fire retardant.
I use 4' PT along the entire bottom of all the houses I build.
Guys, can you make some videos on proper bathroom tile installation with waterproofing techniques please?
Hello, I'm a commercial contractor and recently purchased a 2019 Mercedes Sprinter Van. I need to insulate and panel the interior walls prior to setting up the custom shelving for the kind of work we do. None of the van outfitters in my area can answer this question.... "Is it OK to use closed cell spray foam insulation in a van? The typical materials used in my area are rigid Polystyrene or Foil faced Bubble wrap. I'm looking for the best possible insulation solution that won't create any moisture/ mold issues down the road. Any thoughts???
Still trying to get a read on the long-term IAQ/Building Science aspects of the foam and things like the Alumaflash adhesive given both are essentially sealed inside the envelope.
J Healy - NASA and every other space agency have been obsessed with off-gassing for decades so modern foams and adhesives generally don’t. There is literally an almost unlimited amount of research into these materials in the relevant journals. The effects of vented crawl spaces and other barbaric practices and the nastiness they contribute *_far_* more to the air pollution of a house.
Guys
I have my shingles bowing up on hot days right over every rafter. Shingles lay flat over the decking.
I’m thinking a temperature difference but to cause that?
Ideas??
Florida panhandle. New construction 2018. Closed cell.
I have this problem a little bit. Can I fill in the gaps with great stuff or canned foam.
If it was done in stages, like foam the edge of the studs and panels first, all the way around,, the installer can check for
proper adherence, then complete the first two inches all the way around, allowing time for the foam to cure.
Then do the next two inches?. Of course the installer should occasionally review the manufactures manual to make sure he is following the manufactures current best practice directions.
Wait a minute. You took over the build? How does that happen? Did the owner fire the previous builder? I'm just curious why they decided to bring you in.
I am just going to seal myself into a zip lock bag.
Why? Using tons of spray foam is more fun I heard ... ;)
Does no one use sill sealer? When I was framing in the 1970's we rolled out fiberglass or foam before installing sills and shoes. One builder used caulk or adhesive instead, but that had to cost a lot more, plus the labor.
When using spray foam in new construction. Especially when using the thicker studs. 2x6 and up. Would it be to our advantage to run
All electric thru conduit for future ease of repair?
Yep
I would shoot everyone suggesting an airseal on the cold side of the insulation. If the inside isn't airtight warm air with moisture will come to the outside where cools and releases the moisture = mold and rot. In the house I bought the roof was insulated with rockwoll with a a aluminium sheeting installed on the outside. It had a nice black and green ecosystem......
Sven Weihusen the new-breed of installer can’t grasp these simple facts.
Exactly.
I would like a discussion of this level of insulation technology as applied to vehicles, like RVs.
Metal shell? I would reach for closed cell foam. What I don't know is surface prep: something like powder coat might need a primer [or some other treatment] applied first, or adhesion might fail? Solvent compatability issues are something to be aware of - foam manufacturer should be the best source of info. You do not want moisture arriving to the surface between foam and metal. But: penetrations need elasticity - other sealing methods [grommets, glands, caulk, etc] should be applied first. RV's have plumbing, electical needs that pass through foam and will lose air seal/leak at some point, if foam is the only protection.
Hi, can you tell me what goes after Poly Wall® Aluma Flash (black paper whit wire and stucco?)
What about if I live in Indiana with both hot/humid and cold winters? Which of those wraps are better?
GOOD STUFF
I would charge extra to install Taco Bell cups in the wall-it’s additional labor.
Cost plus lol
lol, are you related to Matt? you sound just like him. Great tips, thank you
@The Arizona Homestead Project, they Half-Brothers? 🤔