How to Fast Charge a Power Station from 12v - VanTech Tuesday
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- As many people are using a powerstation to power their van it's become a common question of how do you fast charge the power stations from your vehicles alternator. So in this video I show you the system I have just put in place to charge my Aferiy 2400 power station.
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Afferiy 2400 power station - amzn.to/46nQTiI
Aferiy 400W folding solar - amzn.to/46qx9uM
Victron DC to DC converter - amzn.to/3PX4p62
Remote relay - amzn.to/3thReoj
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You lost me on "Hi folks"😢 😂. Sounded really good though.
Me too, started simple then....?
Thanks John, going to do the same myself 👍
The only faff is that you have to swap the cables over from solar to Dc to Dc, so I’m just thinking of an inverter 🤷♂️
Neat, very neat. I love the refinement process. Great video, and with the advantage of being able to re-run the program, a great project for the van building community. 👋
Wouldn't have a clue how to do this myself but it's super useful to know it *can* be done, as this would be a great add on for me. I use a big powerbank for recharging my mobility equipment, which if I want to go off grid is, at the moment, limited to just the one night unless there's enough solar to recharge it. Being able to change the powerbank properly from the engine could be as big a game changer as getting the power bank has been. Thank you for sharing! 😃
The main theory behind this solution is the fact that the “solar input” which is typically an MPPT solar charge controller just takes a DC input voltage and converts it to the battery voltage for charging the power station up.
There are buck converters (step down), boost converters (step up) and buck boost converters (step down/step up. Most of these power stations are using a buck boost converter that can increase or decrease the voltage. Quite often you’ll have a power station with a battery that is 12V and the MPPT input is 10V to 30V. A 12V LiFePO4 battery voltage range is 10V to 14.60V so at the lowest input voltages it will boost the voltage but it’s mostly meant to buck the voltage since “12V” solar panels are 18V-20V without a load and ~15V with a load. So a 12V panel will put the MPPT in buck mode and the MPPT is most efficient when the voltage conversion differential is small. Bucking 15V or 16V down to 13V…14V is going to give you 90-95% efficiency.
A larger power station might have an internal 48V battery and it’s MPPT will be 10V to 150V. So a 12V panel is going to need its voltage boosted but if you series connect (positive to negative) 5 panels you get 90V-100V unloaded and ~75V under load. Bucking 75V down to 40V to 56V for 48V battery charging is also going to be pretty efficient especially if the panels aren’t getting perfect sunlight so they are closer to 72V-80V unloaded and 60V under load like 4 perfect panels would be. (Solar panels only operate at their maximum ratings when it’s summer at 1pm or you live in Phoenix. Most people should expect 75% of its rated wattage to be a more realistic amount of power it will yield)
So what to do at night? Or when you can’t be using solar for whatever reason….put DC power in from another source. A battery. A cars alternator. Whatever.
The problem is amperage limits most of these devices because amps are what can create heat and heat is the enemy with electronics. So the amperage limit is what makes using a higher voltage so much more appealing.
10V-30V
10A Max
200W Max
So anything above 20V and you can put in enough current to max it’s wattage rating. Do you go to 30V just so you can do 6.67A and create less heat? Depends on the efficiency chart that should be in the manual. Often times finding a happy medium is where peak efficiency lies
So your alternator can put out ~14.5V and after accounting your cars current consumption you have 80A or so left over to use. Most car 12V outlets have a 8A or 10A fuse because they use fairly thin wire. If your car has 8A fuses and 18AWG wire you shouldn’t really pull more than 8A.
10-30V
15A max
300W max
14.5V at 8A is 116W
14.5V at 15A is 217.5W
So how to get that full 300W? Boost the voltage to 20V. That’s the purpose of these DC to DC chargers/converters that are meant to be attached to your alternator.
OTT maybe, but a redundancy set up that’s hard to beat . Thanks for sharing.
Nice one John. This is our conundrum. We use our power bank to supplement our system and recharging is my bugbear. This may well be the solution:)
I like this, I got a SWB T5, so the power bank option would free up some space form what is the more standard set up, it was just how to best use the engine, which you answered very nicely.
Great vlog John, brilliantly explained. I just booked our MH in for a solar upgrade last week and have asked for additional charge to be from the new solar panels to our Ecoflow mini. From your video I might now enquire for the mini to charge also from the alternator when we’re driving. 😎
That was interesting because I'm probably going to use that same power station to power my van when I get it. But sadly I've got no idea about electrics so it went right over my head!! But it's good to know it can be charged from the engine in much quicker time, so I'll just need to find someone to work their magic and make it happen! 👍🏻
Can we have a cup o' tea now please? Pam!!!
Thanks John eloquently explained as usual, maybe one for the future for me, have just ordered the same powerstation/solar panel combination after watching your review as a back up for my vans electrical system.
Been trying to figure this out for ages
Really useful video as realised I need to charge my Bluetti eb55 faster on the move - only got a small van but the mobile power bank is vital so having a second charger from the alternator would be great
Brilliant John thats great work, will look into that system when i doing my van in the next few weeks thank you
I love these videos but don’t understand electrics, would never attempt myself but good for ideas for reference when I get a van 😊
Love the video and also very impressed by your knowledge and initiative John. For me 🤯
great video john
Honestly John, it looks great and you obviously know what you’re doing, but when it comes to this topic I’m definitely electric dyslexic.
very interesting, nice one John. thanks for sharing.👍👍👍
Another great helpful video. Thank you for the explanation.
Hari OM
Yeah. And again I'm glad of my all-electric rig! YAM xx
Impressive set up and knowledge shown 👍, but by the look of it there needs to be some cable management done on your installation.
At least it's perfectly safe and works just fine. Unlike when people just hide all the cables behind a panel or worse still, they have all the cables running next to each other creating huge magnetic fields which cause heat build up in cables and fires!
Great vlog John 👍
great vlog John, will have to copy for our Ecoflow Delta Pro, will be good to see how the twin solar system copes 👍
On the ecoflow use the solar panel fly lead, just put mc4 connectors on the output cables of the victron dc-dc and then the ecoflow will think it’s solar input. That’s because they’re using a modified cable from the 12v cig lighter cable to identify which cable is being used so the software know which charge inputs to allow.
Thanks for the tip John.
John,, I have a Renogy Rover controller and an Aferiy power station. Feeding all my solar (250w) into both at the same time works faultlessly without a switch or relay. Whichever needs the most charge takes the most charge until it's almost full.
Good info. Thanks for sharing 👍🏻
Hi John, great vid as usual. Hope you dont mind me asking Debbie a question please? I have a Power Oak , I am assuming equivalent to your Aferiy , I have a victron MPPT , assuming this is equivalent to your Renogy? I want to connect to my MPPT and PO using the same array of 4 solar panels. I thought of simply linking the solar via a busbar then connecting to the MPPT and PO. Is this what you are explaining in your comment to John? I am hearing various reasons why this is not a good idea because of balancing and back feed when the PO or Leisure Battery are full!! I am thinking however that a good MPPT and the PO will have this covered through inherent internal circuitry ? I am Hoping that I am understanding that your solution and it fits with my simple solution for charging both leisure Battery and PO. Many thanks
@@chrishall9223 Hi Chris. My original intention was to fit a crossover switch so the panels charge either the power station or the Renogy MPPT. But not having such a switch handy, and being impatient, I 'teed' the pos and neg from the panels,(the live going into another 20a resettable breaker fuse) then into my Aferiy with a powerpole plug. I figured I could just divert the feed from the panels by having one or the other breaker 'live', and this worked well. But of course, the day came that I mistakenly had both breakers in the on position! It was then I discovered that the panels would charge both the leisure batteries via the Renogy MPPT and the Iferiy, but oddly whichever needed most chage seemed to take all the power until almost full, then the other started to charge. Don't know if this will work with your setup, but worth a try. I've had it working like this faultlessly for two years now.
@@debbie62140thanks so much for this Debbie, I really appreciate your update. I have the full picture now to help with my plans. Thank you 🙏
It depends how much current the alternator can generate.
I bought a Victron 12v to 24v at 10 amps. Not their smart charger since my power station already has smart charger built in. I didn’t want to overload my vans electric system, thus ten amps.
Hi, thanks for this, is the alternator powerful enough to charge at 500W? is it a special alternator? How long to fully charge your Aivery Power bank? these answers would be very helpful, thank, all the best to you!
Hi John. Nice video I'm doing the same as yourself just ordered the parts . Love Amazon . I was wondering if you've given any thought to having the solar and the charger connected at the same time. It's a pity that there's not two xt90 sockets so there would be no need to keep changing over from one to the other. Maybe a switch or something. We've only a small van which has a 170watt panel on top. It would be nice to be able to switch between the two. ie solar and the new victron unit.
Thanks for this John but need more help which will involve more detail and paying for your services. I have a Bluetti AC200p supplying power to my whole Iveco truck with 640w solar but I need b2b charging. I did briefly met you both at the Overland show but was a bit shy and didn’t want to intrude as you were with friends. Hope you can help..
All the best Pete from Spain
Hi I’ve purchased the same victron unit, I have a leisure battery that charges via a smart victron charger, could I use the leisure battery instead of the main battery.. I’m fast charging EcoFlow delta pro power bank
Great video. I’m planning the same thing in my Toyota.
What fuse or breaker are you running between the battery and the victron?
Thanks in advance!!
I’ve used got a video all about cable & fuse sizing, it’s best to follow that in order to get the right one for your setup.
Useful!!
Great video, just ordered the device. I have a quick question, is it possible to charge the device using a DC to AC 300w converter from the car cigarette port?
Check my recent video on fast charging this from 12v as you drive 👍🏻
Hi great videos as always
What gauge wire did you use from your battery to the converter and did you run 2 sets one for the converter and one for the dc charger ?
I have a Hymer Merc 1992 van. Can I simply plug the hook up into the ac of the Aferiy and power van from there ?
Hi John, I hope you had a great Christmas 👍
Great video, thank you. I was thinking ahead to the next build and am giving serious thought to using the Aferiy as the only power source (with permanent solar panels), it seems great value at the moment.
Using your charging idea from the alternator with the victron dc to DC converter, can I also splice the solar panel outputs into the same XT90 connection? I appreciate I can't exceed 500w input to the Aferiy but I was just wondering if I can avoid having to swap around the XT90 connection from alternator to solar panel?
My only concern was if any back feed of power (from alternator) would damage the solar panels.
What do you think?
Thanks as ever,
Richard
Hi John i ordered the inverter through your link thanks. Couldyou tell me what fuse to use please.
Hi John really enjoy your content especially on the electrics and gadgets can I ask for some advice as I have copied a lot of what you do on the vans
Just installed a new lithium battery do you need to ground that also to the body of the vehicle it also goes to a 6 way fuse box with negative bar
Solar comes in to mptt
Mptt to battery
Battery to 6 way fuse box
Fuse box to usbs etc
I’m downing the same but haven’t getting around to installing a dc to dc converter yet I was going to use my solar system and charge up with my inverter have you a diagram what you did please
Hi John, I have the 1200w aferiy on my canal boat, like you I have an original set up consisting of a 2000w pure sine inverter, my batt bank is 3x130ah AGM normally charged via main engine and a victron Orion 30amp DC to DC charger. I’ve been using a petrol Genny to charge the Aferiy but often wondered if I could either charge it off my original inverter or indeed off the DC DC charger?
I use my boat inverter to charge my Ecoflow but only around 400w as the inverter can put too much load on the alternator = too hot - still experimenting
@@yellownev unfortunately I have no way of reducing the input charge to the Aferiy, it will pull 700w and that’s it…
Nice set up so are you pulling 90 amps from the starter battery? What power is your alternator?
I’m pulling roughly 75 amps from a 170A alternator.
This is nice John. The solar panel is ok but it requires to be placed outside. I prefer a more stealth way of charging. How long do you have to drive to fully charge it?
It charges at 500 watts, total storage is 2048 watt hours, so if you totally drained it then it’d take 4 hours of engine running time to charge it.
Thank you@@GadgetJohn
How big is your alternator?
It’s 170A
Hello again John, I’ve decided to go ahead with the Victron converter idea but now I’ll have to carry the Aferiy to and from engine room. My question is did you fit a fuse/breaker in your set up? and where please? Thanks again for your advice
You can run the cable from the engine, read the comments here as I’ve already covered this setup idea 👍🏻 and I used a 30A midi fuse.
good vid
I have a relay with remote 12 V, 10 A, DC5V-48V. Is 10 amp ok since it’s just to give a signal to the victron?
Where do you take the ignition power? I have cigarette lighter socket back in the car that turns on when turning the ignition. Can I tap into that cable?
Hi John,love the videos and content.I’m trying to convert my peugeot boxer and not quite ready for electric’s yet but trying to plan ahead and would like some advice please I’m thinking os buying one of these 12V 400Ah LiFePo4 Lithium Batterie Rego Serie and could you help me with what I should get to add to it, would be extremely grateful
Hello John ref powering the afferiy from the Victron Energy Orion unit, is it possible to make a y cable so the afferiy can be powered by the victron unit and solar at the same time ? which would eliminate the chore of disconnecting either to charge the power bank from either the solar or victron unit seperately
Nice
Hello
I don’t understand how to install the remote relay , if i put the little green nob without an off and on switch plz explain or make a ver short video
Hey I have canceled my bluetti order and will go with the AFERIY P210. can you tell me if I can charge it the way you did (with vicron) but also with inventer and plug this like I would plug it in to the wall?
Great video as always mate. Can I ask, could you charge the power bank from an inverter while you're driving? We have an Aferiy 2000W module that charges at 1100W from 240v and it only takes an hour or so to top it up full. If I was to drive for a few hours, could I charge this from our 2000W inverter for an hour or so,? Thanks mate
Yes you can! As long as you have a suitable inverter in your electrical setup, you'll also need to make sure your electrical system has enough battery capacity to power the inverter for 1 hour at 1.1kw. Or check out my recent video on fast charging a power station while driving directly from the engine.
@@GadgetJohn thanks mate.
Hello again John, I hope you’re ok after the last video… I’ve received my Orion Converter and installed it best, I’m still unsure of a couple of things to finish it, what size cable do you recommend for the input and output side? Also as I don’t want to use your remote relay set up could you explain how I can “ turn it off and on” with some sort of remote switch? I don’t want it “active” as soon as I start my engine I’d rather switch it on once my domestic batteries have had a decent charge to avoid putting heavy load on alternator… is it just “one” positive wire from a battery via a simple switch into that little green plug? Thanks
I've got a video all about cable sizing, it depends on the cable lengths you need plus other factors. You can simply wire a switch to the DC converter to power it on and off, as it's only a trigger switch it doesn't have to be a huge switch
Hi John, me again on “appropriate” video this time, the spec on my Aferiy says input via XT90 is 11.5-50v… so I suppose going by that it won’t accept the 60v coming from my solar? So going back to my question, instead of wiring my Victron Orion Converter to start battery and instead wire to Domestic bank would the converter charge my power bank and at the same time get topped by my solar? In other words I’m trying “not” to run my engine whilst in good sunlight… sorry if that sounds confusing
So you want to have the aferiy charged by the victron dc to dc charger from the hab battery and the solar to charge your hab battery? That will work, although the dc to dc charger for the aferiy should ideally be turned off once the aferiy is at 100%
@@GadgetJohn Yes.. I installed an on/off switch on the converter so it doesn’t drain the batteries, obviously in winter times I will have to run my engine at the same time as charging the Aferiy, it’s a pity the Areriy is restricted to 50v max on the Solar input otherwise I could charge it solely via solar. It takes forever using 2 panels ( 42v) thanks for replying John…
@@GadgetJohn hello again John, I tried it today as we had good sunshine, I wired the converter straight to the Domestic Batts via a 20amp fuse, i connected to Aferiy via XT90 port to the converter and switched on, it showed 500W for 5 seconds and blew inline fuse, so I fitted a 30amp Mega fuse and again it showed 500W charging but when I felt the thinner cable which came with the Mega Blade Fuse holder it started to feel warm and then Hot! so I immediately turned it all off and give it up as bad job. I’m not sure what caused the fuse to blow and for the wire to get so hot, I can only put it down to my Solar was putting 22Amps into the batteries at the time I turned it on🤷🏻♂️… maybe the solar charge current was affecting the converter draw? God knows
Hi John, I have the older model and charging is limited to 10A via the MPPT, up to 50V (500W). After watching your video, I take it that the newer model can charge up to 20A as you were achieving 500W, at approx 25V?
500w or 50v at 10a is very different than 10a at 12v. Don’t get your amps & volts confused. This setup will work with the older unit too.
John. I have a solway conversion 21 plate, I could do with victron dc to dc charger fitted and a mppt solor controler, is this something you would be interested in doing for me, I'm happy to come to you. Bill
👍
thanks for the video! does it has to be the exact victron from your link? becasue theres one Victron Energy Orion IP20 24/12-Volt 25 amp its half the price you linked. would appreciate the answer
The other product is a b2b, so that won’t work.
@@GadgetJohn it looks fairly the same to me. But that ok I'll get the one you got. Do you think ac200max would be a good option for a battery in old camper with no AGM battery? I want to live there full time for a year in Ireland
The ac200Max is quite an old model, old tech, not the best you can get for that sort of money.
I bought EcoFlow balcony solar power plant with 3.600W Delta Pro storage, 800W inverter and 2 x 480W Bluesun (37.1V) solar panels. When the power plant is connected throw inverter to the network, can I connect the third panel, which is not part of the solar plant ,with a power of 480W (37.1V) directly in the XT60 input to the Delta Pro for extra charging?
I’m not sure I understand, you mention a network, do you mean an actual data network or do you mean a mains power grid?
What fuses did you use John?
Will this work off a smart alternator?
Yes, when the alternator is running.
Hi John, are you saying I could charge my Power Bank with the converter by connecting the supply to the Solar input? As I already have a Victron DC to DC Orion 30amp charger connected to my starter and leisure batteries would I just need to put another cable from starter positive and negative onto the Converter then into the power bank? I’m assuming the alternator would cope with powering the dc to dc charger and the converter at once?
You’d have to check the spec of your alternator. The video fully shows how to wire it.
My power bank can take between 12/56volts 10amps input.
I believe that this equals 500watts. Is this the same as yours. I would like to do the same as you have done. Cheers.
Yes, that should work fine.
can you tell me if that remote relay is must have?
Not at all, it's simply a way to tell the product when to switch on and off.
@@GadgetJohn oh right I have one already but it has no remote so I'm assuming it just know by itself when to kick in ( when the car battery is full?) Just bought ax200max and a victron but it's a bit confusing how to hook it up to the car now
It sounds like you didn’t buy the correct product so you’ve just got a 12v to 12v b2b and that won’t work. Buy the product I link to in the video and you’ll have the correct product.
John, as my set up is on a narrowboat May I ask regarding buying the Victron converter, rather than have to “carry” my Aferiy back and forth to the engine room to charge via your recommendation would I get away with having say a 6m cable from the converter to charge my Aferiy in situ in my Galley area? Would I get voltage drop over that distance? in fact would the Aferiy still get a charge from that distance? Thanks in advance
If you use 35mm cable then it’ll be fine over that distance and the amps flowing.
@@GadgetJohnWow…! I’ve just seen the price of 35mm cable.. I’m afraid that’s beyond my means so I’ll have to forget the Convertor idea… thanks anyway
So could any power station be charged with like that
Any power station that allows 24 to 48v solar panels.
😅so John. Interesting. If I understood all this correctly with this new direct DC to DC ( 20A) and your previously installed B-2-B (30A), when the engine is running and you flick yoyr new relay, then your alernator is supplying 50A to these 2 battery systems plas the normal vehicle battery. Are normal modern alternators rated to do this?. Any idea of imoact on MPG?
Please feel free to check the other comments as I’ve already covered this. No idea what difference it’ll make to mpg as it’s not something I keep a track of.
Thanks John. I went back on your advice and reviewed all the comments and your responses. So you are now pulling ~ 78Amps with original B2B and now the direct DC2DC and your alternator is rated 170A (is this original OEM or upgraded?). I've no idea what the normal van/cab electronics pull in addition). Now this is a genuine question (so please go gentle on me). Does all the alternator power flow through the starter battery and you suck from there or does some of this power from alternator bypass starter battery and feeds your original B2B and new DC2DC directly? - again honest question!!. Thanks
can you not just run an inverter from your starter battery and charge the eferiy from that when driving?
That’s such a waste of energy and money, bigger inverters are more expensive than this DC converter. An inverter would take 12v and invert it to 230v and then the aferiy would convert that to 50v, so you’d waste a lot of energy.
@@GadgetJohn but if your engine is running does it matter? As the inverter is getting its charge from the alternator via the starter battery. I uknow if its just pulling from the battery on its own but if the engine is charging the battery ?
But an inverter is more money that this DC converter, why would you want to waste money AND energy
@@GadgetJohn assuming its your only power source you can charge from 240 and solar at the same time and even if only on 240 it would take less time? And would save having to swap the connectors out from dc converter to solar connector. I am not disagreeing with you and I may be barking up the wrong tree but thats how i see it.
Can anyone help me? I'm using a a victron smart 12/24/10 connecting my starter battery to an Ecoflow Delta Mini 10amp Power station. The most I am pulling is 160watts but I've seen people pull the maximum of 300watts with theirs. I am wondering if I need to adjust the settings on the App. Can anyone tell me what I am best setting it to?
John I'm desperate . please maybe you could help me! I need a power source in my camper. would this unit can be charged via solar and also with the engine(car battery) at the same time ? I would be really thankful for a info
The solar & car charge input is the same, so you can’t charge it using both. Check out my other videos as I’ve got an easy fast charging solution from the engine.
@@GadgetJohn I will check it but I thought you can do solar and via AC plug and an inventer on this model
You asked about solar & engine charge, so that was my answer. As I said in the video, you can charge via a/c & solar at the same time.
Just a suggestion. Instead of talking your way through, why not, in addition, provide a simple diagram?
I avoid diagrams as only a small number of viewers can understand them.
Great video love it , can you answer a question if you have time . I have a B To B isolated 30 Amp I’m changing things around, as you do and I’m installing a Victron charger to charge my leisure battery at home or on a site , but it says connect the live to the battery but the negative to the chassis. Do you think it’s ok to ground my leisure battery to the chassis while I’m using this Victron isolated B to B . Personally I see no reason for not connecting the charger directly to the leisure battery or /and in addition connecting the leisure battery to ground, or am I a total numpty thanks for your patience well done good luck 👍👍👍🏴🇬🇧🇨🇦🦢
I think I wouldn’t sleep at night with the amount of wiring in the back of your van, a fire hazard waiting to happen. I am electrician
I’ve seen electricians work 🤪🤣😂🫣 so I’m very happy I did my own electrics.
With OTT wire gauges and properly fused there’s probably more fire risk in the equipment being connected than the wiring itself. I’d wager the wiring doesn’t run hot, unlike a commercially produced product that used to be in @GadgetJohn’s van.
not complicated at all John...🙄😂
Could you instead of buying a new DC-DC converter for this faster charging, plugged the mains charger of the power station into your regular inverter. That would have let you use existing kit to achieve same result?
Now it would mean the regular battery charging would be lowered as you would be diverting power into the inverter that would otherwise gone to the regular leisure battery, but depending on charge levels and length of drive, might have excess anyway overall.
And ... If you got say the Orion-Tr smart 12-12V B2B and fitted that in parallel with existing B2B, you could control that in the same way with your remote control relay to only turn on when you want it to, but .... the output of that would be more flexible - use the same extra power that will give to cover the extra load on the inverter if charging the power station, or use it to faster charger your regular Lithium leisure battery if you need that charged faster.
And as a wee bonus, as you were talking about redundancy, that would also give you some charging ability if the Renogy 50A B2B broke.
Not saying your setup is bad or won't work. Just I think there may have been either a simpler and cheaper way, or a similar costing more flexible option. (Of course my suggestion does assume the mains charging into the power station is as fast as the 24/30V DC charging).
The regular Orion b2b is 12v, so that’s not going to work because you need a higher voltage for a higher watt output. Using my inverter to charge the power station would pull more power from my battery than the 50A b2b can pull.
@@GadgetJohn the voltage out;put of the Orion 2B2 is not a factor as it will be used to charge the battery, not connect to the power station. The COMBINED output of the 30A Victron B2B AND the 50A Renogy would be sufficient to match the power the AC adapter the power station would pull from the Inverter, wouldn't it? If it didn't, then you would end up using some of the Lesiure Battery power it is true, but the Power Station recharge would be faster and so the alternator power gets 'reserved' to recharge the lithium battery sooner. Same end result as your new setup, just a different pattern of device charging.
I don't know the details of your particular power station, but the method I am suggesting would certainly work for the VTOMAN Power Station I have - and is how I would recharge on the move.
👍🚐🚐😎