I was WRONG about A.I. We're all screwed.
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- čas přidán 10. 04. 2023
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As an update to our episode in January, Tony and Chelsea talk about the advancements that have been made to A.I. in just 3 months, how it changes the trajectory of A.I., and how photogrpahers can prepare to accept an inevitable change. - Věda a technologie
As a landscape photographer, my goal isn’t to produce amazing images. It’s to use photography as an excuse - as ‘permission’ - to get away from my computer and spend time in nature. A camera helps me to be present, to de-stress, and to really see the beauty around me. It’s physically impossible for AI to replicate, much less replace this experience. Great insights, as always. Thanks, Chelsea & Tony. 🙂👍
Yep, hobbiest are perfectly fine. Its the people who make a living from photography who will need to be mindful of the shifts happening.
@@fpl_bailey Oh, for sure. Unless they're photographing or filming specific people in specific locations. But yes, AI will create seismic shifts in commercial photography and film-making - especially in advertising and stock media. I feel for those who've built a living through stock libraries or product photography.
@@matthewcorey2338 I like that. Well said, Matthew.
100% agree with your statement Peter! Landscape photography is my natural blood pressure medicine. Its my escape with no noise but the rushing of a creek against moss covered rocks. Like Chelsea said, it is here and will be here, but it wont stop me from going out. Thanks!
@@robroyig-robroyphotography9225 Me too, Rob. At times, I've been so stressed with work, but after just 30 minutes in nature - with my camera - I feel completely at peace. It's incredible.
AI will be able soon to comment instantly on post by writing "first" before any human, replacing forever the best of humanity.
😂
😂
First!
@@Daniel-Six last
@irk hayner Not half as disinterested as I am in Ai. Reality offers so much more. The more I step away from social media, the internet, the current zeitgeist, the more my creativity improves. We are not all made equal - thankfully - so I'll leave this technology to those that want to enjoy using it. If this means I get left behind, so be it. Ai just leaves me cold.
A really important discussion at this point. Many thanks to you both!
I’m not sure when it happened, it has been a while, but it is so refreshing that Chelsea is no longer taking a backseat to these episodes. I love the balance she brings to the conversations. We are again at a tipping point in photography as technology continues to make it easier to produce and saturate the industry with visually appealing imagery. Ai is not to be dismissed and this was one of the best videos I’ve seen addressing it. I went kicking and screaming from black and white film, to color, to digital, to mirror less (more squirming than anything else). At the end we as creatives must look at a thing from different angles and learn to use the tools that help us to do what want to achieve. Thanks for this episode!
I agree with you about Chelsea;.
And I find A.I. terrifying (not talking about photography though),,, I foresee it having a huge impact on the world of professional photography.. here's one scenario: using AI models and "dressing" them in virtual clothing (exact 3d replicas of the actual clothes)... thus bypassing both the need of photographers, models, make-up artists and assistants... not good for the industry.
@@BalloonInTheBalloon 3 years from now professional photography will be the least of your concerns.
@@julius43461 That's exactly my concerns. It is frightening.
Thanks Chelsea and Tony! Love your show! I'm a professional photographer for nearly 20 years. But as far as AI impacting our lives goes, fake photos are the least of our troubles. There's going to be massive changes in human life as a result of this technology and not all of it for the better.
Yep. To the point where photography will be pointing a lens and speaking to your 'camera'. What photography is will change.
Film photography will probably become even more popular now. What better way to authentic a photo than with an original negative.
interesting view, that could be a reason why film prices have skyrocketed, and film labs will come back!!
lovely... mean my film prices will get even more expensive
Stay offline will be the best kept secret of the following decades as it seems. Not the best solution regarding content creators like Tony and Chelsea, educating many here, but maybe the only option left for humans eventually, when reality turns out entirely virtual.
Sure, negatives (or transparencies) would be available for authentication but AI could still be utilised at some stage during the print generation process to digitally alter the print file.
A.G.I Will be man's last invention
Great discussion as always and gave me some new ideas to think about. I’m an old school designer who started just before computers came on the scene. Everyone said we were all out of work and doomed. I’m still here and having a blast using all sorts of technology to create my images!. I can only say A.I is here to stay, embrace it and find a way to use it in your workflows. Don’t let A.I be the master of your work. I’m only just looking into how this could help me create my concept artwork but I can already see it’s use. I especially like the idea of using my photographs to generate new images and avoid the issues with copyright. I don’t really know if this affects graphic artist’s like me at the moment as I create mostly vector images that are for specific clients who require complete control of how something needs amending - it’s not something an A.I can do as most of my work has to stay confidential. However, I have been following some great conceptual artists who are doing amazing things with A.I. We have to learn to adapt or fail. Change is scary but if embraced can open up huge possibilities.
Isaac Asimov's laws are as follows:
“(1) a robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm;
(2) a robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law;
(3) a robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.”
Asimov later added another rule, known as the fourth or zeroth law, that superseded the others. It stated that “a robot may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm.”
Everything is changing so fast I can't keep up. My staff spends an hour or more a day just keeping up with the tech. Crazy times... Great video, as always guys.
A.G.I Will be man's last invention
My Father used to run large photofinishing labs for Qualex (Kodak). The day he saw the first Apple digital camera, as horrible as the quality was, he told me his entire industry was doomed. He was right.
Photography will always be an art, and there will always be a place for documenting events, but AI will reduce it to as small a niche as film photography or vinyl records occupy today. Most consumers don't care about how much time/work/money went into getting a shot...they only care about how they feel when they see the result.
Respectfully, it's a losing battle to try to justify why "real" photography is better or how AI can corrupt the industry. It makes you look like the diamond industry desperately trying to develop technologies to differentiate lab diamonds from natural diamonds. Truth is, to most people, a diamond is a diamond.
Instead, as experts in photography, you can leverage AI to create images that are far beyond what a typical consumer can make. Use your skills to create fabulous source material, and then use AI to make that material even more spectacular. Change is scary, but it's coming and everyone has to learn to cope with it.
photography won't become a niche. News, events, documenting anything will stay relevant. If anything stock photography will suffer
@@ChrisThe1 Stock, art, nature, product, and landscape photography will all suffer. Only news/event photography will be safe for now, which is why verification of images will be important. Having said that, even event images will be supplemented or replaced by AI versions. It's not a thrilling prospect, but considering the preferences of today's consumer culture, it's predictable.
I'm not so pessimistic over this. What is the value of a fake Rolex or a reproduction Tiffany lamp or a Picasso fake relative to the real things? These distinctions have been a factor of human nature for a very long time and I don't see that changing any time soon.
@@RabidTribble no. Product will still be easier traditionally, possibly supplemented with ai. Nature will be a mix of real locations and supplemented ai images of less iconic details. Art is art, it will always remain; photopraghy didn't replace painting 150 years ago. Some of these fields will use ai to enhance photography, but not entirely replace it. Stock is by far the biggest loser, as it will imo cease to exist within 5 years or less.
@@ChrisThe1 100% agreement.
Good morning my friend and thank you so much for sharing another wonderful video like always 👍🤗
I have been following you for a couple of years and have always gained great tools and skills from your content. Your discussions on AI are no exception! As a headshot, branding and portrait photographer, I’m being asked regularly on my opinion of AI. While I really hadn’t thought of it more than just a new editing tool, your videos have opened my eyes to not only the artistic value of AI but also the ethical issues that come along with it. I’m very glad you’ve really gone into what AI is all about. Thank you! I’m subscribed and will keep tuned in!
Sadly, AI (not only in photography) seems to be a representation of how society is shifting away from authenticity into some collective false persona.
Very true.
And don't forget the data that AI uses to blow your mind comes from unacknowledged work by creative people that just happen to be available on the internet.
I'm not a professional photographer and I don't even share my work on social media so I personally will still be dragging my gear gear into the great outdoors and spending time enjoying nature at capturing scenes that actually exist, but that said I totally get how this would be an invaluable tool for a graphic designer or similar professionals but they should also be concerned that anyone can buy this and use it so are they now redundant ?.
so well said...I was thinking along those lines too
True, and I think the prevalence of superhero movies proves this. They have not only become normalised, but are actually replacing movies, which have at least some basis in reality.
I think with my job as a nature guide taking pics of people in nature, or any job where you're taking pics of specific people, photography still has a bright future. An algorithm using previous pics to manufacture "new" pictures is one thing, but when we're talking about taking specific pics of specific people (weddings, portraits, etc), there will always be a place for that.
How long do you think it will take AI to generate such images based on a pre-uploaded photo prompt of the person?
@@istvann.huszar420 I don't know. Will you want your memories to be manufactured?
@@smaakjeks I personally don’t, but I cannot speak on behalf of different cultures, some of which are already endorsing a fake presence via plastic surgery, or other generations who grow up with clicking on a person in their smartphones to cut them out and paste them into a different context.
100%.
@@smaakjeks This is my biggest question.
Let’s say you can snap a pic of your location. A basic photo on an iPhone and then use that to generate the memory you want and then post to Instagram.
Would people want the most stunning photo of them visiting NYC or would they always prefer the real life version?
It will be an interesting few years seeing what people choose.
You are really underestimating the impact of this to photographers and graphic designers. It will not just impact them it will completely eliminate them all together as we know it in certain fields.
Great work guys! We're all on this roller coaster, screaming our heads off, but somehow, right in the middle of the loop-the-loop, you pair are managing to say some really sensible words!
Still, it's going to take some kind of Copernicus to tell us which way is up as all this unfurls.
Thanks for your discussion around this relatively new tech - and some of its implications for photographers and videographers.
Stable Diffusion is also REALLY good, you just need to know how to prompt well, as well as a lot of settings to mess with. its been able to make photo-realistic images for a long time.
100%
Free Stable Diffussion with customised models gives even better results in photography than Midjourney... The Midjourney style has become easily recognisable, hence the introduction of a more photorealistic model in version 5....
Leonard ai is better and you can you stable diffusion on it
Great video. Thank you for your insightful analysis.
Thanks for making me rediscover photography. I went back to film and it is so much more rewarding now as I appreciate the craft of manual work again
I used to be a professions hand printer until Photoshop and digital came along and cost me my job. I feel that this will have the same impact on photographers. I spoke to some teenagers who are friends of my children and when I showed them examples they said we know it's not real but that doesn't matter. I can see the accountants now rubbing their hands saying we can save so much money by not hiring photographers or graphic artists. We'll just use A.I.
They’ll still hire someone to make the AI images. Accountants and managers and what have you are not going to take the time to learn to use this technology. It’s not as if it spits out the perfect image every time. You have to learn how to communicate with it and sometimes spend a great deal of time to get the image you’re looking for. This is why photographers and designers need to learn to use this stuff, to keep up with the changing demand. It’s like the photo they showed with wedding on the beach, with all the stuff in the background that a real photographer would have left out, or photoshopped out. They’ll still need people who see that stuff and know how to fix it.
The fun fact is that those accountants and managers will be replaced by A.I. probably even faster than artists...
@@shannonpalmer "Accountants and managers and what have you are not going to take the time to learn" That is 100% not true, and I've watched it happen in real time on real sets with real producers/managers. Because it's not the same as learning a whole new art form, the machine already has all of the art memorized, so the user just types in prompts and the machine does everything. And you even said it in your comment "This is why photographers and designers need to learn to use this stuff, to keep up with the changing demand". Do you really really think the exact same thing isn't being said to the people at the top? The producers/managers who can use it, will definitely leverage it over those at the bottom who charge for their practical skills/tools no matter how good they may be at their crafts. And as the tech gets better/easier to use it will just push artists further out, which makes this all a race to the bottom. Another important point that people ignore is that this tech is very much "learning from it's users" more so in fact than the user is learning the program. Which means as an artist, as you cave in and use the programs(out of fear of being replaced) it's learning further how to replace you, with someone less experienced as the operator. So, it's using stolen art to replicate art (that's just different enough from what was stolen), while learning from the user to the point where it needs an actual artist less and less to type in the prompts.
@@xxkichaxx636 they already are and it's sad. The entire underwriting and copy industry disappeared over night... and we the artists are like "nah nah, embrace it, it wont do that to us..."
I agree, but as usual everyone will say no and nod their heads to it until is too late!
For me personally, photography is a part of the experience of „bring there”. The travel photos, documenting family events, the landscape and (last but not least) wildlife photography… The „sentimental value” of my photographs is a part of its intrinsic value - for me & mine, that is. AI genarated image will never give me this.
So it is entirely possible that hobbyists/enthusiasts will carry the torch of „real photography” longer than the pros, who will have a hard time making a living from their craft.
If this means being „left behind”… so be it! 🤷♂️
100% agree
That's a completely valid use for photography that will never die. Their value to you are priceless, and that won't change with AI.
Seems to me that this creates a new category of art. And it's more closely related to painting than photography. In my opinion, there's something special about photography that's been dying already: capturing a raw moment in time. That is, an unedited snapshot of reality. Using photoshop to make a photo "look better" is absolutely legitimate, but I have a deep appreciation and admiration for the purity of preserving a moment that actually happened; something that once was, and will never be exactly the same way again.
This was a great video. Speaking about the probability in the possibilities of AI really opened my eyes. Both of you express great insight about some expectations of AI. It is great to see how well both of you have raised questions about how to explore AI going forward. Thanks
It was refreshing to see a more nuanced discussion about AI. Also, I remember first seeing Chelsea on the channel wondering, what would her role end up being in such a "technical" space, but seeing her at 27:05... That is some top tier emotional management moment
The more I think about this topic the less I am capable of articulating the full breadth and complexity of it. It shatters some commonly held preconceptions about art mediums and professions, calls into question what constitutes authenticity and how to determine authorship, and even what art is in the first place. One thing I firmly dislike about these models is the fact that they were most likely trained on copyrighted material. I'm apprehensive to grant these tools the status of personhood at this point in time, so if they were trained on copyrighted material without the author's express consent, I think it represents an ethical dilemma. A human being is well within their rights to learn from and take inspiration from other artists. I don't know if the same courtesy could be afforded to a monetized tool.
There are AI tools created on a monetized scheme, such as Adobe Stock Collection. The case for open projects is complex, and their legality will be boiled down to the Terms of Service (TOS) of the platforms that artists use to showcase their work. I stopped posting my work online back in 2011 after Facebook "updated" its TOS, which many interpreted as claiming ownership of every piece of information shared on their website, including original artwork.
@@DJVARAO Just this morning I read a comment from one of my favorite dog photographers, very well known in the world of a certain breed of dog that he rescues. Well lo and behold, he just came across AI-generated images using one of his portraits and he had never given permission to any person or entity to use it. Yep, AI can steal your images if they are posted anywhere.
@@SuzanneRenfrow That sounds too coincidental to me. Some scientists tried to replicate photos already contained inside one of the AI models, and out of 100k images, they could only "retrieve" 200 or less.
However, we are now experiencing the decline of social network photographers. Many professionals switched to offline and/or protected portfolios years ago, publicly posting only a minimum of their work, so they cannot be openly exploited. For instance, when Flickr and similar websites boomed, suddenly a new generation of scammers posted somebody else's photos to look good on social media. My point is that stealing digital pictures online is nothing new, and social networks can use them without your explicit consent if you willingly posted them.
Super insightful video. Thank you!
"It's the role of the government to actually look out for the citizens" - oh you sweet, summer child, government looks out for government, just like corporations.
Hi @TonyAndChelsea, as someone who has been shooting professionally since the days of Nikon F2 (still own two F4S bodies), I've watched the arc of change you described and think you did a great job explaining the stages of grief those attached to older technology experience (film - digital - Photoshop - AI). This next phase is both spectacular and extremely unsettling. From time to time I've tested some of the platforms for their ability to produce well documented aircraft types. Strangely, I've not found a single one that can remotely deliver any accuracy. Some animals? Yes. Perhaps despite the extensive documentation there is much less there to train on (or intentionally a lower priority to train) than the Pope or some other public figure? I got an invite to Adobe's Firefly just last night. Frankly, my first test left me very unimpressed. Most of the results missed the intention of the prompts by a mile. Needless to say, there is both danger ahead for society and potential for good. Our species track record on such inflection points is uneven at best.
All changes are unsettling for us photographers in the beginning, especially at this point when Ai-generated composites are more popular globally than "actual photography." The new change is art in my eyes. Always have room for the two. I'll keep going outside with my bulky camera to take pictures, enjoy the fresh air, and connect with nature while trying to stay up with the incredibly quick changes happening in the photography industry. Many thanks to Chelsea and Tony. Your videos have been well-received for years.‼😉
That was one of the best discussions I have heard re Ai so far, well done. I think the part of Ai I don't like the most is the constant ' is this real' question that will be asked now, that has to addressed legally. There are so many 'photographers' out there now on social media platforms claiming their badly done Ai images as their own photography. Strange times ahead for sure. Ill stick to old school studio portraits with a bit of help from photoshop and lightroom I think at least my models have a soul, a story, a history and are not just shop window manikins that look real on the outside.Good luck everyone ...
😮35 years ago, I attended school to learn analog photography and spent up to 8 hours in the darkroom to refine my craft. I was skeptical when digital cameras were introduced, but now I incorporate both mediums in my photography. With the help of AI tools like Mid Journey and others, I am constantly learning and improving my skills to elevate my photography to a higher level. I have even learned to connect my digital camera to my phone and use GCam (Google Pixel software) with its own AI to achieve perfectly balanced photos. As time progresses, we must adapt and embrace new technologies like AI to continue improving our craft. Thanks for sharing this video.
AI ultimately will take the craft away. Why don't people realize this?
R. Sweeney
Thank you for a wonderful, thought-provoking video about an important topic. You guys have once again demonstrated that you are head and shoulders above the rest of the videographers in the industry.
I’m shock that you guys didn’t even mention Adobe Firefly 😅
THANK YOU! You just gave me hope, and a Lot of ideas to Keep improoving my Photography Company. THNKS FOR EXIST to both of you!
I am not a photographer - in any form. Love this vid/pod cast. This is the most amazing and terrifying information, EVER! I am totally fascinated. As a public school teacher, I am wondering how this will impact my "take a picture, and send it to me" assignments. It is frightening - and exciting. Thanks for making this information so understandable to a non-photographer. Excellent work!
Maybe AI doesn’t render the texts intentionally to avoid some copyright infringement regarding the brand names. It’s hard to believe that it can render almost perfectly any sort of images and it can’t render some simple texts. My opinion.
good point!
This is a great conversation! One of my favorite videos on this channel! Very well thought out, argued, and executed.
Btw love your channel and thank you for helping me pass my part 107.
Certain areas of photography will be fine - wedding photography for example, where people want photos of *their* wedding, not photos of *a* wedding.
Thank you guys, love all of your podcasts. I'm coming to terms with the situation. I doubt my recent certificate of excellence from the UK's Best Selling Bridal Magazine will make any difference now. I thought about how all the skills I've managed to learn will probably have been a waste of time with this era we are entering into.. Bless you both, you're awesome as usual and so so talented❤ ❤❤
The big difference for me that separates AI from all the other technological advances of the past is the skill and thought required. Even with a fancy digital camera or the best paints you can buy or the most powerful computer for 3D, you can tell the difference between someone who truly understands the craft and has honed their skills. I have a very nice camera and have been taking photos for decades, but I know that I don't have the training and experience to be a professional photographer.
There's not a lot that can replace knowledge of light and composition and whatever else for all art before now. Even trying to copy the greats doesn't guarantee the same quality.
What scares me about AI is that so many of those elements specific to putting in the work can now be done automatically, too. It will help you create the most pleasing compositions and form light without you even telling it to because it's pulling from the best of the best. AI isn't looking at doodles on napkins or poorly lit snapshots. It's directly grabbing the best and most popular sources. It's using the skill and experience someone else worked hard for and just automatically using it as structure in your prompted image.
I really liked your points about AI feedback loops and needing new source. That is true. One hopes. But that will make those best of the best even more elite than before. It'll be only the very best who are still needed.
I'm saddened by the potential loss of value of what goes into an artist, not just the art. I'm worried that it's not a loss for artists so much as a loss for humanity.
Yeah this was pretty much my thought as well. The difference with those other tools is that you, at the end of the day (or the beginning, I guess), still needed to take a picture. You needed to work on a picture. There was some level of care and attention, as well as a modicum of learned and applied skill and/or technique. With AI, you literally just type keywords in. That's it. And the more advanced the AI gets, it will soon reach a point where you don't even need to be able to pick the "best" result out of what it gives you because all of the results will be great.
you still need creativity and effort to spit a good image from a IA model.. GARBAGE IN, GARBAGE OUT.. people tent to just put the best image generated and dont put the thound ones that look like trash.
it not as easy as people make it look.. but its getting easier but still is a huge barrier for people without computer knowledge, i can use it but most of my friends look at it and cant comprehend what is happening.
Ai is just a tool.. and most people will adapt.. and photo will still exist.. maybe as a nich. like painting on a real canvas, or just documentation fotography, many people like vinil records, or still shoot in film etc..
Saying it will hurt art.. is gatekeeping.. like the people who hated digital artists because control-z mistakes made it too easy or digital photography is too easy because you could just take thousands of photos until one gets good..
Yes, a massive part of the brain work has been offloaded to a program. That percentage will only increase. This is a transitionary period after all, before true conscious AI arrives. Once that comes to be, even the need for a human-as-a-curator will vanish. Imagine an AGI possessing aesthetic judgement beyond the reach of the most gifted human.
@@DuduMaroja Sorry. However complex your “non-garbage” prompts are and no matter which output images you choose, at the end, your “creativity” is *still* only a regurgitated amalgam of all the skilled artists’ work used in the AI’s dataset and the collective efforts of its software developers, nothing more.
It’s simply not comparable to digital art from apps like Photoshop, which, for all its bells and whistles, *still* requires real, honest-to-goodness skill from artists. It doesn’t compare to digital photography either because no matter how many pictures photographers take, they can still claim them as *their* original work.
In fact, you can’t even hold a candle to a person who just throws paint on a canvas and proudly calls it art-at least it’s *his* hand doing his *own* crappy work and he’s honest about what he put into it. You’re not doing your own work, you’re riding on the coattails of that of *other people* and you *know* it. It’s impossible to gatekeep against “your” art if you didn’t create any to begin with.
Love you guys and your knowledge so much. Would be interesting to recreate same wedding photos in a few months and keep comparing to the first AI. I’m afraid this would all be too techy for me to keep up.
you have a misunderstanding of how A.I. generation works. The watermark is not showing up because It's stealing images, it shows up because it's learning that a watermark is supposed to be there on the image.
Or is it really both....
The check mark thing is actually a really good idea. I'm wondering how popular analog mediums will become in a world where so much can be generated by A.I. Film photography and LP records have had a surge in popularity and seems to be a reaction to the ever increasing digitalization.
What if I take a camera picture of something on the screen?
That surge in popularity of vinyl has nothing to do with "ever increasing digitalization". It's just a thing that has become old enough to be novel again. You see this with fashion all the time. One thing that the "ever increasing digitalization" did bring, is music for everyone. Now you don't have to buy a record to listen to music. Think a little before being enraged at "modernity"
When was I enraged with modernity in my comment? Why are you so antagonistic? Also, dismissing every trend as "just a thing that has become old enough to be novel again" is an oversimplification. New trends can definitely be a reaction to earlier trends and have been throughout history. Same in architecture where trends sometimes are a very direct reaction to a prior style. A.I. art could very well spawn a counter movement or trend, that focuses on analogue mediums.
Honestly it’s just another art form media, and not photography. I see it more as graphic design than photography itself; because in the end it’s all about mixing items into one image, like a collage. Thank you for opening up about this.
It's not. The AI learns how an image looks like. Then using that knowledge makes an image based on a request.
It's no different than a teenager learning to draw by copying their favorite cartoons.
The real risk is people getting bored with photography because we won't ever be able to take the pictures of the objects and things AI will be able to produce. So we might get a little phantasy obsession. And, it's not gonna make it any easier that there is no way to differentiate both.... it's gonna be an interesting period up to 2025....
@@KASPA-KEY This comment is correct! Look at the energy of this video. Low. This is the effect on human motivation. Artists, writers should resist this at all costs. It is not just a new tool. IT DOES ALL THE WORK FOR YOU. The car in the rain example, they didn't go out and shoot anything. It DID IT ALL. Death for humanity.
To me it seems more like some sort of artistic direction by engineering prompts in order to create some kind of a vision. The vision may not be perfect or unique in its essence, but it could get you leap closer towards your goal, and promptly so. (pun intended maybe)
You pose questions that we need to deal with urgently. Thank you!
When we were switching to digital my boss couldn't handle it so he would tell me to bring out the Hasselblad for a few years before 5D came out.
It isn't just photographers getting screwed. Levi's is testing AI-generated models to sell clothes under the excuse of "increasing diversity" when really they just want to not pay real models.
One day you'll be uploading your face and body details to a clothes shop to see your virtual model trying on clothes for you.
Edit: And it's not 'just models' being affected. Photographers, videographers, retouchers, stylists, makeup artists, graphic designers, producers... entire marketing campaigns could be reduced to one person entering prompts on a laptop.
Except nothing will fit because everyone will upload filtered photos
They've been hyping this for years. but... There is nothing like seeing the garment in real life, seeing how it really hangs and really feels. Plus... People want to imagine not themselves but exciting glamorous people having the same clothes as them. Actual people. Not pixels.
@@waynedennyphoto Already nothing fits because brands don't know what measurements mean, and from one style type to another, loose fit or regular, sizing means a completely different thing. Even going from one brand to another with the exact same "size" can have widely varied results. And this is just with jeans!
@@waynedennyphoto AI will be smart enough to compensate for altered photos :) "Oh the photo is from 2 years ago? Lets just add a few sizes"
We won't need to wear clothes because we'll never leave the house. We'll just remain in our VR bubble. Fashion won't die, but the clothing business may.
Wish I could go back to 2005. Then I would have bought a Canon 5D classic and enjoyed 20 years of pure photography.
You can buy it now if you want. It's probably much cheaper too.
How does AI prevent you from enjoying photography? Shoot for yourself. Make your own art.
A.G.I Will be man's last invention
I am really, really, *really* glad that three years ago I didn't start the photography business that I was planning to start (thankfully covid blocked that plan).
We can all say "AI isn't there yet", but it's coming - oh boy is it coming. And as Tony and Chelsea have demonstrated, it's coming way faster than we expect and this improvement isn't going to stop. The only question now is how long before it's *good enough* to take your job or business?
Hey T&C! I was studying up on how AI is affecting the photography industry and thought I'd share some interesting insights with you. It seems that as AI becomes more advanced, some tasks that we currently perform as photographers may be automated. For instance, there are automatic image enhancement tools that can improve the quality of images without requiring manual editing, and AI-powered algorithms that can analyze and select the best images based on factors such as composition, focus, and exposure. While these tools can make our workflow more efficient, they also have the potential to displace certain types of photography jobs.
I found it particularly interesting that product photography may be particularly vulnerable to automation, as AI-powered tools can generate 3D models of products based on photographs, eliminating the need for manual product photography. Similarly, event photography may also be affected by AI, as automated cameras and algorithms can capture and select images without the need for a human photographer.
However, I do think it's important to remember that while AI can automate some tasks, it can't replace our creativity and artistry as photographers. There will always be a need for skilled photographers who can bring a unique vision and perspective to their work. Plus, there may be new creative opportunities that arise as AI provides us with new tools and techniques for creating unique and innovative images.
Ultimately, I think it's important for us to stay informed about new developments in AI and be willing to adapt to the changing landscape in order to remain competitive in the industry.
What do you two think will be next BIG story for AI across the photography landscape?
Thanks for all you do! ;-) T
Real human here. Just want to say I love you two! Thanks for being real humans too. ❤️
A.G.I Will be man's last invention
I think that the only way to stop this from getting worse is going to require federal legislative action. Requiring all these AI companies to delete all of their image references and require an opt-in system where photographers can only allow their images to be referenced. This would kneecap the entire AI explosion.
Because the photography lobby is so strong? Come on...fighting this is like pissing into the wind. Most amateurs love what they can accomplish with these new AI tools. They're not going to give them up.
That'll never happen. The photography and videography communities are loving Ai images. Just look at Tony and Chelsea, they went from "we're a long way off" to "Here's how to make money with AI" in a few months. Only writers and illustrators are fighting against Ai because we see the reality while photographers just see instant profits and won't realize no one will want their photos until it's too late.
25:43
Tony- " bc it cannot go into the world, and take that picture"
Skynet - "Hold my beer"
Great conversation. Thanks
I don't know if the average person even knows that AI is making photos, and if they do, they don't realize the realistic quality. I remember about two years ago, learning for the first time and see AI made human faces. It was staggering.
The absence of limitation is the enemy of art.
-Orson Welles
Absolutely -- creativity is sparked by limitation. This seems to be the fatal flaw for AI in the "feedback loop" comment above.
but WE are the limitation, so the only end of art is the end of us
Thank you thank you thank you both for continuing to talk about it.
Thanks for this very interesting and nuanced discussion!
Definitely a scary time, that is for sure! This video really makes you think more! Thanks!
Another take could be that since AI exists, real photos become more valued. As an example look at how film and polaroid photography has taken off in the past five years. Cell phones have made photography far easier and many of those digital photos while very good get cheapened because of how common cell phones with good cameras are. We as humans still value authenticity and the resurgence of film gives me hope that "real" photography is going to survive even if it takes a decline.
Great point. I cherish my old photos.
We've to embrace changes and progress. Resisting or denying it will not help. Thanks for warning us about the approaching tornado.
I think people forget there is a difference between commercial work, and creative art. Commercial work's only rule is make the client happy. Creative work should make you happy. In creative work I have had a rule that I can subtract items from my images but not add items. In commercial work I routinely add items to images. Follow the rules that make you happy, but remember art has no rules, and no one should have to follow your rules.
I certainly agree on the requirement for an international standard for an encrypted embedded key within images produced by cameras that can be used to verify authentic human(non-AI) created images. Conversely, I would like to see standards for AI to also embed a similar key to ensure it is clear when and where it has generated or assisted with it. Software like lightroom etc, should also allow for this to be written into the output files (e.g. RAW to .jpg) just like the rest of the EXIF data. Websites/apps could find easy ways to present this alongside other metadata, so that the user can always check it. This is sorely needed for all types of photography, but photojournalism in particular, is an area where the authenticity of an image really counts for so much. We consume so much imagery through news media outlets, that AI images made to incite the worst reactions in people, may be a certainty without this system.
This is something I would like to see happen even if AI was not a thing from a copyright perspective. I'm not a professional photographer but I don't want someone stealing my work even if it is just a hobby. It would effectively be a digital signature that is bound to the image. Digital signatures that are often used to "sign" photos in photoshop can be removed without much effort. I have never sold a print but when I give one away to friends or family, I still psychically sign it because I value authenticity. I don't want it to just be a cheap "file-print" potentially one of one thousand picture. It is a simple little thing that shows that you care.
AI art is just art. Except generally better than much human only made art.
Your comment, in a not so distant future, will be labeled in history as part of the beginning of machine racism and will mark the point when the AI will start fighting for equal rights (and also the fluidity of their gender).
I don't see why we need this. Even for photojournalism, how much does it really help the viewer to know that an image isn't AI generated? They still don't know that the human making the image didn't make it in an intentionally misleading way - e.g. photograph a model of something and pretend its the real thing, or photograph a lookalike and pretend they're a famous person. The viewer still has to trust the photographer or the publisher to be honest.
@@barneylaurance1865 Yeah that still true. Kind of how a certain lawmaker got called out for taking a picture looking distraught while looking through a chain link fence and turns out it was just a empty parking lot and not what they were calming.
This is how the matrix was built. Love the content!
Good point and great review. PS...Your Mic's for this clip coming over a little hot.
This video was so informative!
You guys are great educators. I could see you guys doing great AI tutorials.
A.G.I Will be man's last invention
There will be no need for tutorials. You will speak to your computer like you do your phone. No instruction needed, you just tell it what you want. I want a dark moody shot of me in front of a castle on a hill petting a white horse with the wind blowing my hair.
"So we should come back after 3 months and admit we are wrong about this" I'm dying
Sky replacements, overlays of leaves, polar bears, fluffy clouds, comps like head swaps, photoshopping things out, etc. -- those kinds of things have been used for some time now to create images that don't 100% reflect reality at the time the image was taken. Even leash removals, which as a pet photographer, I do all the time. But those things seem to be pretty well accepted by clients and photographers at present. I agree with Chelsea and Tony though, right now AI definitely has some drawbacks (some of them insidious) but I think in the not-too-distant future photographers may be tempted to adapt at least some elements into their workflow...I mean, say it's been raining for days yet your client wants a portrait taken in a background of a sunny day at the beach...accomodate them by utilizing AI, or turn them down? I'm going to be keeping an eye on this topic, for sure!
This is great episode. You two are genuine people
Thanka Tony and Chelsea, for such an excellent overview of AI from a photogrpahy perspecitive (and lot of food for thought!). One of your best videos!
The future belongs to those who prepare for it today….AI is here ….keep up to date!
No, the more we embrace it the faster it'll just take over everything.
Thanks for the content. Please please keep feeding us the future of AI and photography. Many of us are grinding (lovingly so) and rely on you to help keep us updated.
Excellent as always. What do you think about Blue Willow?
It will all change again in less than a month
Probably 😮
Great discussion folks. I'm in the voiceover business and the AI voices are everywhere. But so far they are very limited in any nuance of tone of voice. We've had some corps drop us for AI voices but come back to us a few months later because AI is still too robotic. For now anyway. Thanks for all your great work and information. Cheers:)
A.G.I Will be man's last invention
Elevenlabs is the best voice AI. Near perfect replication for many voices.
It's only getting started
I think although A.I will soon be able to sound 100% believable a real VO artist provides much more than a voice. That professional skill, experience and understanding of the client, who may themselves struggle to describe what they want or changes they want will mean that there will be a need for real VO artists for a long time to come.
@@JonathanPalfrey You couldn’t be more wrong. Gosh so many people grasping on to the desperate desire to believe humans are special and that they can’t be replaced in literally every field. It’s happening. Voice actors are definitely getting replaced SOON , AGI will be able to easily give outstanding VO performances in literally an unlimited amount of styles…. Will be better than the most “experienced” voice actor on the planet
The AI does not contain image files in its models. It only looks at images and learns the patterns, the probability of what is more desired and what is not. A lot of images available on the web for any human being to see have watermarks and the AI thinks since that is very common, that's what we want to see.
Calling the process of the AI training on images "stealing" is sort of like accusing all of us humans of being thieves for having eyes and brains. We look up images online. We go to museums to learn and enjoy and be inspired. The AI training is basically the same process.
This misconception about the AI was being pushed really hard by the artist communities last year. It is now not as prominent because most AIs moved past oil paintings and abstracts and are in the region of photorealism and videos, which traditional artists can't accuse of being stolen work as convincingly.
The more i watched and the more I felt like i was watching an infomercial LMFAO
I’m hoping that camera manufacturers will introduce some sort of security code into our digital images or images in general to safe guard their industry and protect our images from being used without consent. Can see many images being stolen for some idiots pleasure and not paying the real costs of the image. Let’s hope. Always open to new tech if it’s done right. Great video guys
There are already watermarks and so on. Problem is people post there stuff online and you los some rights when you post it to the public depending on the website you may even los the right to the picture.
Security seems easy until you actually try to implement it. Some kind of trust system is coming for sure, but I'm skeptical that it will solve the problems it sets out to solve.
Considering there are millions of photos online for AI to use, I don't think it matters.
As a graphic designer when I first interacted with this I was shocked. Mixed feelings. I couldn't tell how I felt about it, I still don't but then it also did something for me that I couldn't do before on my own which was to be the art director I truly wanted to be for my own ideas (or atleast come close to it). I've had clothing ideas for over a decade that I felt couldn't be told without proper photography/presentation. Where in the world was I going to find money to hire "high end luxury models" and top notch photographers to shoot in almost dream like locations? As a graphic designer I can create an identity, a website, a brochure... I can manipulate, but because I'm not a photographer nor have thousands of dollars laying around to experiment and test out ideas I felt that it couldn't properly execute them. So I always kept those things in the "vault" and every now and then I'll come across that stock photo that would inch me closer to how I envision it or manipulate photos together to try and create the feeling I was looking for. It's stifling and deep down a lot of us know there is this invincible ceiling due to lack of resources, money, connections and/or access. The closest you get to that type of creative direction/synergy is when your partner is also a creative like you or you have close friends in similar fields and even then you're not always going to manage to get everyone to work on your time as we got our own ideas and our own lives to live too. AI has kinda democratize the playing field. If you're a photographer but not a graphic designer and want to use design to present your work the AI can be that piece you need. If you're a designer but don't shoot, same thing. If you're a copywriter but don't shoot or design, AI can assist you there too.
Of course there's the "yea but it's taking money away from said photographer, designer, copywriter etc" argument. Yes, maybe and it is... but I think for the first time in history our ideas are no longer bounded by what we can't do. It's finally becoming about creative intention FIRST. Cameras, software, tools, computers, stock, vectors, templates, brushes, resources, money, etc. were always a means to an end and AI is just that, another tool to be used to express our innate desire to be creative.
On the flipside, I get the argument against it and won't argue it either.
It's an interesting time to be in and cool to be witnessing what is happening.
Photography started to put artists out of work nearly 200 years ago.
100 years later, the automobile put horses out to pasture.
Recently, the web has put much print media out of biz.
Those things were the most expedient and "the state of the art" tech for centuries, but people will still indulge in and appreciate the "secondary" qualities of paintings, horses and books for their own sake.
When you claim that Midjourney is "stealing" images by incorporating watermarks, it may lead to confusion or misconceptions about how the process actually works. Midjourney's operation is more similar to the way humans are influenced by previous work they have encountered. However, Midjourney lacks the ability to discern that it shouldn't generate its own watermarks for these images. Having encountered watermarks before, it mistakenly assumes that they should be included in the images. In this way, Midjourney, much like the human brain, is inspired and influenced by its exposure to various content, which is distinct from directly copying.
I saw a lovely vlog a while ago that said on one level photography is a EXCUSE to do what you already like to do (be out in nature, meet people, discover things). None of those are achieved by sitting at a computer using Midjourney. It may be, as workplaces change and people's jobs are replaced by AI, that jobs themselves become more like 'experiences' to keep people occupied and simply 'live'. Activities like photography might still be great for that. And maybe we need AI that dramatically enhances our ability to get away to great locations. The climate crisis will only accelerate the need for people to reduce the amount of clutter and 'tomorrow's garbage' that they produce, so there might not then be the same urgency around whether humans or machines can do things bigger and faster. The joy of low-footprint things might literally have to be the core priority.
I couldn’t agree more. 👍
Climate crisis? Lol
@@nanaosei3794 Yeah. You know. The thing that's visibly happening all over the world, was well forecast, and is now one of the more thoroughly documented parts of reality on planet earth. The decay is happening everywhere.
@@mikefoster6018 Yes that thing is called weather and seasons. Climate changes day to day, week to week.
Floods, storms and droughts are nothing new and has happened since beginning of time. Climate modelling is like this AI, they put in, parameters, numbers etc ie prompts to generate predictions. Al Gore's alarmist estimations never materialised. Volcanoes have more influence on climate than our little activities.
AI can't replace the two of you. Keep up the great work.
Yes it can. Just not yet :) We are TOTALLY going to see AI influencers soon.
not now, but maybe in 3 months? We already have AI that generates text, speech. We also have stuff like "Metahuman". Connect the dots.
You guys are great, thanks for the update, looking forward to hearing more.
really great assessment of the progression of AI capability and the urgency of this topic. lots of things to think about!
I’ve been using mid journey since fall 2022 for unique backdrops for some of my portrait work
My greatest worry is this transforming into video. Through 3D tools and raytracing, which is also getting a boost through AI, you could make it quite convincing. (Yes, I think you're wrong Tony. The animation industry is on to AI aš well.) I'm sure there are people who would love using it for fake documentaries and news pieces, when we really depend on these things being at least partially real.
Check out Ureal Engine
Thanks guys for the good chat!
As Always, THANK YOU both! ; o )
Photography is about capturing reality, capturing actual life, this feels like the exact opposite of that. Its cool and all and I can think of a lot of uses to it but it's never going to replace photography unless in the future we get actual AI robots that take photos lol, also I don't know how to feel about it actually taking real photos from photographers (even with the watermarks) as input for what it creates, it feels like stealing to me, same for the "AI art" that takes actual art and artstyles from people as input without their consent for it
The whole AI generated picture thing is just about steeling from property. Does not sound legit to me.
Yeah AI will not be replacing photographers no matter how flawless it gets. Only good for deep fakes.
As a wedding photographer I can't imagine a robot running like crazy taking pictures
One problem with the digital signature idea is that an AI image could be re-photographed and thus marked authentic.
Yep and showing raw files wont mean anything
You beat me to it. Rephotographing an AI image is the Achilles heel of this method. It might be possible to include the time and location in the photograph, which might help rescue some documentation photos. Finally, given that changing a single pixel invalidates a signature, it is really tough to allow some, but not too much post-processing. Making the private key, time, and gps coordinates unchangeable would be a challenge.
A.G.I Will be man's last invention
Good video and very interesting, but as soon as you mentioned the IT crowd, I made my mind up, instant like haha. I do think that although someone may lose to AI in a sense with photography, the photography itself is an art form, those photographers know what they want in an image, I think that the best images generated with AI will be former photographers, as they know what would look good, so will prompt in the way they know looks good in that art form. The job may change, but I think the skill will never be lost, just refactored.
First time viewer - and impressed with you level of conversation in this video - unnerving topic in a lot of ways.
I honestly can’t wait till I can give AI a color palette and ask it to color grade three different versions, and ask for the same white balance throughout all the photos, as well as ask it to learn my own style. It would be like have an editor without paying for one.
ImagenAI
Foolish nontalent !
I can’t wait to watch this video again in 20 years. Going to be fascinating as AI takes over.
I think, more like 20 months.
Very interesting, thank you.
One of the biggest problems with this type of software is that now, any image any photographer upload to their own online gallery can and/or will eventually be 'stolen' by AI and used by a potentially unsuspecting end user in their own work. There may be so-called 'safeguards' that are intended to prevent this from happening but the fact is anyone with bare minimal computer skills can nab any image on any website with minimal effort.
Another and even more ominous issue will be when image generating AI gets good enough that we can no longer tell if an image is real or AI generated. Such a powerful tool will most assuredly be used by nefarious individual for every imaginable misrepresentation of truth. Don't even think that digital signatures cannot be faked as well. Happens all the time and anyone who thinks otherwise is clueless as to what can be done with any digital file, image, meta data, or digital signatures.