How do the Dwemer Automatons Work? - The Elder Scrolls Lore
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- čas přidán 31. 12. 2022
- Like I said in this video, I am not a mechanical engineer. If any obvious mistakes in my reasoning are pointed out in the comments I will put them in the top comment and paste them below this.
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Like I said in this video, I am not a mechanical engineer. If any obvious mistakes in my reasoning are pointed out in the comments I will put them in the top comment and paste them in the description.
You didn't make any mistakes that actually mattered for the purpose of the video but you did make some. Firstly only simple atmospheric engines use atmospheric pressure to push the piston down, all engines since James Watt use dual acting pistons where a timing valve lets steam enter the other side of the piston once the steam has finished expanding. You actually showed a picture of one such configuration. This kind of engine is a lot more efficient and allows you to mount the piston in any orientation you wish to, usually you'll also have multiple pistons to get as much energy out of the steam as possible.
Secondly the properties of materials available to use doesn't really matter. Dwemer metal likely isn't any stronger than any modern alloy anyways, it is just stronger than other metals in TES but like of course an industrialized society can produce better metals than a medieval one. The industrial revolution was in large parts driven by advancements in metallurgy that let us produce better metals. The limits of steam engines are just inherent to their design, it's not a result of us lacking appropiate materials. Steam engines are basically only good when they're huge, that's why we still use them in power plants in the form of steam turbines. They are able to develop tremendous ammounts of power but also weigh a lot and so suck for applications where you need engines that deliver more power relative to their weight. That's why we largely switched to internal combustion and electricity for anything that needs to move. A lot of this comes down to the fact that steam engines need to use a lot of water and that is heavy.
Basically steam engines would absolutely suck for this kind of application because they're large and heavy and not particularly weight efficient as they get smaller. However I can imagine one possible way in which steam could be used. It's basically a system similar to the early steam powered torpedoes where you just have a tank filled with high pressure steam that is slowly let out to drive a simple engine while the movement is controlled by a sort of clockwork computer. This would make sense for the dwemer automata since it means they don't need to carry a bunch of heavy water around nor do they need their own boiler. Arguably there's also lore backing for this since when Dwemer Centurions leave their docking stations steam is spewed out by the joints, indicating that it was being filled up with steam. In this case the soul gem might actually serve more like a computer or solely exists to power the mechanical computer of the automata like a button battery and that's why it can easily last for millenia. It also fits with all other observed facts like the automata failing when getting too far away from cities since that's simply them running out of steam.
Oh yeah I also forgot to mention this but irl a similar system was used in the so called "Fireless engines". They are just small steam locomotives that don't produce their own steam but rather refill from a central boiler. They were commonly used in factories that already had a large boiler of their own especially for transporting flammable goods like sugar or dangerous chemicals.
There were also systems similar to the ones found in Dwemer ruins where a huge complex is fed power centrally. Though they weren't based on steam but rather compressed air. London had one such system where central compressed air stations supplied compressed air to workshops and factories in something very similar to the modern electrical grid.
You did not make many mistakes other than the ones already listed, but you did not show the possible gear chains or the leg functions, such as how they bend. If you look at the dwemeri spider animunculi in ESO, they have a Cresent moon like shape that protrudes through the leg. That used with the hinge would create a knee function, but the difficulty would be separating the left-right function that moves it forward and there needs to be a 'hip' function that is separate from every thing else. The lack of gears and cogs in your video is disturbing as the clockwork technology of the Clockwork City was based off dwemer tech and by the gears does anyone think Lord Seht just decided to add more gears for no reason!? Please make a more informed perception tabulated review on these subjects, such as a (gulp) comparison of all different ways to operate a dwemeri or clockwardian automaton.
You don't even need steam engines for the automaton. It could just work on steam pressure, cylinders that expand when a valve allows steam into it, and contract either under gravity or due to an opposing cylinder expanding (think how the linkages in your arm to your elbow work, two sets of muscles, one pulling to curl your arm, another pulling to straighten it out.) Just have many of those with controlled valves and you can have a steam powered automaton without the need to use a steam engine.
After defeating them, i always looked real close in 1st person. Always amazed me how they were rolling around and then transform into an archer. Episode 1 of star wars has robots that roll around and transform also. Just reminds me of them also. Great video. Great subject.
Droidekas
You are thinking of the the Destoryer droids, aka Droidekas. They were created by a race of aliens called the Colicoids, designed in the image of their creators.
@@ximthedespot4673 I didn't know that! Cool info dude
@@lordofthebored3660 I didn't think that The Dwarven were that intelligent to create this robots.
@@izactheangelyou mean knowledgeable or technologically advanced, if they were as advanced as they are in elder scrolls and placed in the real world during the late medieval period they would've advanced far beyond what we have now and they would've most likely erased humanity.
The steampunk nature of the Dwemer does provide a great deviation compared to the medieval/tribal tech levels of the rest of the Elder Scrolls world. The theory of lesser souls powering the automatons somewhat seems similar to photosynthesis in its process.
That's a good point that they thematically serve as a counterpoint to the (generally) medieval fantasy vibes, and it's like they achieved the equivalent to photosynthesis in their synthetic universe, which kinda gives me Thief 2 vibes now that I think about it lol there it was "mechanists" and "woodsie folk" but morrowind and thief2 are my favorite pc games of all time lol
I personally believe the gyros server way more than simple gyroscopes used for balance. The fact that they all have a small red gem embedded, the same red matter as that of a dwemer dynamo, which is just as much worth as a dqedric heart implies it has some higher function. Now to some wild speculation, it seems these red fragments may be related to the heart of lorkhan, and more specifically they might be refined heartstones. In the dargonborn dlc, heartstones seem capable of animating matter and have them work autonomously, a sort of consciousness lies inside these strange gems. I believe the dwemer used these as sort of chips to program the automatons, and as an additional source of power. Metaphysically speaking in TES, the concept of will is quite important in order to achive or do anything, and Lorkhan is one of the embodiments of will itself, and to me in makes sense that fragments of this dead god are used to program the will of the atuomatons. They may also be used to fuel the automatons, as it seems they pulse with heat and have a seemingly infinite amount of energy, even though with a faint output.
This is the best comment I have ever read.
maybe the automatons can capture humidity in the air to restore its water reservoir
As an Elder Scrolls and Dwemer dork with a degree in computer science, I greatly appreciate this video.
The Saints in clockwork city transferred their souls to machines. I still have a theory that the dwemer found a way to transfer themselves to automatons. Not everyone but maybe some of them.
I personally think that the automata function as a byproduct of the ideas gas law where pressure increases lead to temperature increases. A minimal amount of heat (soul gem) would be needed for the process and the ancient automata would be weaker due to leaks in the system
Animunculus to me sounds pretty clearly, given the summary you presented, as a play on the alchemical humunculus, which is a human life made artificially through alchemy. In this play on words, "animunculus" would be an artificially made soul.
Good stuff. This is the stuff I think about when I role play as a dwemer researcher.
Take into consideration when you tend to find Dwarven oil upon looting them
Wow never knew about the new soul loop theory, I would say it fits very well =]
Steam heated by the ebony lava in Red Mountain, somehow transduces Lorkhan's power into the gems. This is why the constructs stop working as they are moved from Morrowind (this is in lore when a spider construct was transported away by ship).
It would kinda make more sense if the dwemer automatons ran off of a steam power generator and the soul gem was used kinda like a nuclear reactor because otherwise it would require entirely to complex mechanical systems to make a dwemer spider move all it's limbs separately and in a controlled way.
The key things are a Power Plant that doesn't run out and Parts that don't wear out. The US has something like this in they're nuclear subs & carriers that also use steam.
Oh hell nah every Skyrim character has turbo cancer now 😭
There's another type of steam engine which is steam turbine. It is a lot more compact than piston engines and also can produce more power. You can put it in the front of the boiler in the 6:55 diagram and no need for any pipe except for water circulation.
The boiler too, doesn't need to be separated from the heater. You can just put the heater "inside" the boiler and it'll generate more steam. If you arrange them like 6:55 then the heat can go bottom, left, right, front and back which on top of not producing power it also can cause issues like increasing wear and tear or thermal expansion.
Oh damn you are right. A steam turbine would be easier. I didn’t even consider them since in my lizard brain steam turbines are exclusively for generating energy using steam. But of course the motion can be used for all kinds of purposes, not only a generator 🤦♂️
Ill add it to the top comment and description when I am on my pc!
You're a machine expert?
@@ImperialKnowledge i didn't think that The Dwarven were that intelligent to create these robots.
Wouldn't the dwemmer be able to imbue a soul or piece of soul into the automatons from one of their own or perhaps the falmer to protect them?
what if all dwemer automatons are equiped with a system that is constantly sucking up and filtering air and then blowing it out and the filtration system filters water molecules out of the air wich will ultimatly power the steam engines :D
Congratulations on finishing your thesis!
Thank you!!
According to Godd Howard, they just work😎😹
Happy New Year's from Canada🎉🎊
In the quest for Sunder and Wraithguard from Skyrim CC,you do a puzzle where you must shunt steam around.It's not hard to imagine something like this animating dwemer contraptions
Your thumbnail was hilarious
i always appreciate the unique kind of videos you make from elder scrolls lore compared to other channels. Keep it up, good work.
Speaking of soul gems, have you ever done a video on them? I'm still confused about soul gems. How they work, what happens to a soul once a soul gem gets used up? I've seen some say the soul gets released and others say the soul gets consumed and completely erased from existence, but there's also Black Soul Gems and the Soul Cairn. I never use soul gems with my characters, besides just selling the soul gems I find, but I'm genuinely curious about the ethics of soul gems for a "Good" character.
Grand scheme of things, mortal souls are sent to the soul cairn which are exchanged later on through building large armies or through uses of soul gems to recharge weapons or staves
Daedric souls are supposedly sent to aetherius and their animus is there consumed when needed as mortal souls are, just from a different plane
Interestingly enough, supposedly argonian souls are basically.... 'retrieved' back to the Hist trees, supposedly saying that you can never trap an argonian soul
All in all, when you capture a soul and use a soul on an item, it it's essentially banished from all existence, much like how reincarnation is denied
I know tonal architecture is the method in witch they carved and shaped stone,a process somewhat similar to the Thum, and Blade singing to a degree where they use a form of music or sound to reshape the world around them.
Weather or not this is the same process in witch the Dwemor metal is made I can't recall, regardless it is canonically stronger then the armors we make in game.
May this new year bring you good health & fortune!
Great video! I've been really curious about how these automatons might work!
Using fire and ice magic it cold work something like a sterling engine, the steam exiting the machine is burned off ice
Joking aside, the fact of magic being used does lead us to ask, does magic outlive it’s caster, thus implying the Dwemer are around still, or does magic have a shelf life? Will their machines eventually grow weaker and weaker as centuries pass?
Dwemer invented wireless charging
Bluetooth centurion
Torque Converter. The single motor could turn an oil pump, charging a high pressure tank. This pressure could be bled through valves to actuate the leg cylinders and drain back to a low pressure tank, to be recycled. This would only require a single clutch between the motor and the pump. Speculation of course.
Now this is a Great tophic !!! I always loved these creations hehe tho from memory morrowinds creations did not have soul gems only skyrims.
The morrowind spider stoped working when coming to far from vardenfell, but turn right back on once coming closer again :]
But skyrims seems to work anywhere. As the creation from dragonborn dlc works If you go back to skyrim.
So maby its cuz the soulgem inside?
I personally think the dwarven pets and creations are fan pleasing and kinda bend the rules. You could say they have their own dynamo core maybe? Like centurions?. But I honestly don't really know. Although that the morrowind automatons don't have soul gems is a bit of an oversight as the developers/writers apparently did intend a connection to souls.
@@ImperialKnowledge I view the morrowind automatons not having soul gems because of the factor that they are near one of the largest and first soul gems, the heart of LKHAN (Lorkhan) The Dwemer had been harvesting power from it for years before the dunmeri took control and the tribunal was formed and the lava from Red mountain that is inside Red Mountain could be viewed as Lorkhans blood, thus helping convert water to steam and causing this essence of the god of mortality to power the automatons without the use of a soul gem, since this is also exclusive to vvardenfall, so it only makes sense that the automatons will need soul gems away from the Heart of Lorkhan.
or maybe dwemer societies in different regions adapt their tech differently
Wow. Super long video from you, thank you.
This also explains the logic behind atherial staff
Also, dwemer oil is titan spinal fluid lol
You don't actually need a whole steam engine for the spider, nor do you need a separate engine or gearbox for each leg. The legs of a real spider are moved by fluid pressure alone, which is why they curl up when the spider dies.
As someone who works as a mechanic on nuclear reactor and steam plant systems, I love exploring this concept and theorizing. My personal opinion is that the soul gem serves two functions: first, as a heat input to cause the water to flash to steam. In the naval reactor systems I deal with, the heat input is the nuclear fission that occurs in the reactor core, but a soul gem is a very easy magical option. The other use would be to act as a sort of logic system for the automaton. On the macro scale, in a large steam plant this purpose is fulfilled with a combination of mechanical operators such as myself, as well as computational systems and the people who operate those systems (computation being unnecessary on traditional steam systems but incredibly important on reactor steam systems). This would explain how the automaton knows to attack and operate limbs individually of one another. My questions become:
1) where does reserve water come from in this system? We see them emit steam all the time in lieu of a heat exchanger/condenser. That would require a significant supply of water reserves to keep the system operating.
2) WHO IS DOING THE MAINTENANCE ON THESE THINGS??? Those little shits would break down within a year tops without maintenance
I think you're more correct with the smaller steam "engines" (probably just the pistons, but same idea) in each leg powered by a central boiler, kind of like the hydraulic system in an excavator. Your diagram with the steam engine should have pressure valves to both sides of the piston to push it back and forth, and vent valves for each side when the other is pressurized. Source: I have a degree in mechanical engineering
The idea or them being recharged by orbiting souls is backed up by the animation you see surrounded destroyed automatons. Always wondered what they glowing flowing lines were supposed to be. I had thought it has something to do with them slowly reassembling themselves after they were destroyed.
How do the Dwemer Automatons Work?
Me: Fear and the blood and tears of slain adventurers.
Maybe every time the machine kills something it recharges it's soul gem.
I think the automatons don't produce their own steam (well not the small ones). But use a "steam battary" a pressurised tank that can be filled with steam from a fuleing point, and use that to power their pistons.
Real life engines use such designs for moving around. Used to be common for industrial use for moving large heavy things short distance where a whole steam train would be useful but too big. There was a old one at the old dock yard my dad worked at that was given to a museum. It was all the parts of a steam engine but no fire place, no chimney and no where to keep the coal leading to a much smaller construction.
I have a half- formed thought on the resonance idea. Given that the Dwarven metal is a special metal, perhaps there is s frequency that makes the metal permeable enough for the souls and their energy to pass through and animate the automatons, perhaps which gives the dynamo cores their power, and why distance is a factor for anything far away from them. The dwemer probably needed a metal that was impervious to most things-- they created it and realized that the metal indeed _was_ impervious to most things-- including magicka and energy. Maybe that's where resonance comes into play. Perhaps that tonal sound manipulates or alters the metal enough for magicka or souls to pass through🤷🏿♀️ I dunno
Things I think about as a non- mechanical engineer lmao
I like the idea of the little souls- the fact that Dwemer managed to trap a soul in perpetual servitude is interesting and well, fitting for the race of egotistical inventors.
In this theory- the automaton that is taken out of the city can ran out of power, but it's "soul" probably returns back to the Dwemer city. So if you reintroduce the automaton back into the city it should self recharge.
Souls, at least in many fiction, crave to have physicality- a natural instinvt to put it bluntly- so Dwemer basically harnessed this natural process to make their automaton work.
And personally I like the idea of Dwemer tech- I have certain personal distain towards fantasy that is firmly stuck in one time of medieval period, one that seemingly never moves forward despite the seeming progress made by scholars.
Yes, Dwemer are gone- but they are the race that actually showed some progress despite being stuck in the medieval fantasy setting
The dwemer oil found in the scraps could be the liquid mentioned.
My next legit playthru will be a mage since i have hundreds if new spells and gameplay changes. Its gonna be dwemer themed with new armors, dwemer lightsabers, lots of dwemer/high elve followers and Mihails dwarven 1k pack for dungeons
This is what I never knew I needed to know😮
Dwemer robots probably doesn't have water inside their shell. In Skyrim, player can improve its Resist Magic parameter. This will counter the dwemer steam attacks. This means that the dwemer steam is pure magic stuff. Steam Element, maybe?
Magically charged clouds or something
i always thought they moved with the steam and oil but stayed going with the soul gem enchantment.
U should make a vid on dwemer spirits they appeared in Morrowind but are no where to be seen in Skyrim
This can also explain why the Dwemer "Disappeared", and even adds fuel to the fire, of the theory regarding all dwemer becoming the "Skin" of their machine god.
All of their souls, stripped of their individuality, became one ultimate, greater soul.
They all became their machine god, and thus technically are "immortal" even tho, all the minor, mortal souls perished to create the one Ultimate, immortal Soul.
One that contains all their knowledge, yet none of the original personalities. Instead, being a brand new, singular personality.
Another theory i may add as to how they recharge the soul gems powering the machines, is that all dwemer automatins have wjat is essentially a "soul trap" enchantment. And any creature they kill, beast, or man, or other, that soul gets absorbed by the soul gem within the automaton.
This in line with the theory of bound lesser souls, could explain why they have seemingly infinite charge.
This was so awesome to learn about! Great job, very well done :)
Btw, that music (latter half of the vid) slaps - does anyone know the song name/musician?
Mechonis field theme, xenoblade!
I did enjoy the video
The alloy could be ebony mithril and brass. Maybeeeeeeee
Best video
Xenoblade music in es lore video LET'S GO
Why do the Nihilists make the best weapons?
No fear of divine repercussions or what?
Steam and magic
Too bad looting the downed automatons with weapons won't allow a player to acquire said weapons:
A dwemer crossbow and either a dagger or sword (don't know which) from a sphere
A Warhammer and Battleaxe from a Centurion
Lore wise, they are very interesting but gameplay wise where's the fun in killing something that doesn't bleed?
If you have the enhanced blood textures mod by dDefinder I believe they do bleed it’s just black oil splattered everywhere
Cogs
Fr
I love your Chinese accent bro, it adds to the lore.