I would not just based off the poor work life balance, dismal benefits, and salary not commiserate with the huge upfront investment required for schooling, long-run stress and headache outweighs any benefits. Also, it's difficult to transition into non-clinical roles, lack of upward mobility as a mid-level provider does not make this career choice worth it.
I agree with you that the knowledge part is worth it, but the degree itself is disappointing. Too expensive, emotionally and physically draining, and there is barely any respect or ability to advance. Most of my friends from undergrad did CPA degrees and make better money and are happier.
@@lilylife4426 Talk about a flashback. I just texted you (if the number I have is still your number) to say hi! Look at The Medicine Couch - educating people about all facets of the PA path…and also reconnecting people 😁. I also agree that the knowledge itself is worth it, especially for me as a patient myself, and to help those close to me understand lab results etc. But on the other hand… yes to what @lilylife4426 said about the overall cost, financially and otherwise, of the PA degree. When my classmates and I were in school 10-12 years ago, I remember being told about all this balance we would have in our lives as PAs, but I personally saw very little of that. I think it would have been helpful and more realistic to maybe say, “your hours as a PA may be better than a CT surgeon or neurosurgeon who is on-call, but if you think you will come close to a 50-hour workweek on a regular basis, look elsewhere.” I was a PA in 4 different specialties: My “regular workweek” jobs were anything but; and my 12 hour shifts were rarely just 12 hours. Then you tack on any kind of a commute…and you’re looking at 55-60+ hours/wk, easy. Sometimes I hit the 70s. I realize that may be much less than surgeons…but, again, *raises hand* this gal is here to NOT be a surgeon. And also I’m not getting paid like one. So…yeah. And even if you somehow manage to keep your hours down, you’re faced with the current commercialization of medicine and all that comes with it. I think when it comes down to it, I am still passionate about science and medicine, and I am still passionate about applying that to patient care…but the patient care I believe in no longer exists, or exists in a very limited fashion, in today’s version of practicing medicine. Having the benefit of hindsight, if I were currently 10 to 15 years younger and at a professional turning point, rather than pursuing PA school, I would teach myself C++, Python, and Go to then secure a career in tech as a developer. Just as @lilylife4426 stated about her CPA friends, the money is better as a developer, and the ones I know seem happier. And the hours are better.
@@lilylife4426 I agree in some ways with what you've said. There is, unfortunately, a significant lack of respect out there for PAs in the workforce. And it certainly can be an emotionally and physically (and/or mentally) draining job! However, I think we tend to put arbitrary limits ourselves on our degree. It may take some educating others as to what we are capable of, but I think tons of doors are open to clinicians, especially if they have a master's or doctorate degree. People just have to think out of the box and look at opportunities differently.
Hi Michele, Thanks for your candid comments and this video. As a non-traditional PA-C myself, I 100% agree with your sentiments and I'm glad you are creating awareness for prospective nontraditional recruits so they can make a more informed decision if considering career change to PA-C/NP
Thanks! I truly was shocked when I sat down and thought about this and came for that figure. I don’t know if it would’ve changed my mind at the time, but definitely something for nontraditional candidates to think about! I’m curious, are you still practicing? Thanks again, and I really appreciate you watching and commenting!
@@TheMedicineCouchYes I am still in clinical practice. As nontraditional candidates, there's a lot to think about when leaving a steady income and benefits behind. Ideally what you want to avoid is making this difficult career transition only to find out your 2nd career choice is also leaving you unfulfilled and perhaps even more financially insecure! What I noticed from my personal experience is it's difficult to gauge the full scope of clinical practice during shadowing, volunteering etc. due to a) lack of time, and b) most preceptors/mentors are hesitant in sharing the downfalls of medicine. The industry in general promotes a self-preservation culture.
You’ve built a really interesting channel here on CZcams, and thank you for taking the time to make these videos. I’ve started to comment multiple times but have always deleted it, because I can’t get the words quite right. Figured I should give it a go anyway, because I think it helps the algorithm or helps your channel overall (?). Anyway, here goes… I agree with so many of your expressed values re: not everything is about money, the value of the medical knowledge itself to help self and family, no point in second-guessing and “what if”-ing…as well as what you’ve said here and in other videos about the “business” of medicine’s almost assembly line mentality for clinicians to see more and more pts per shift/day, even though clinicians still have the concern about being sued (because there has certainly not been anything significant in the way of tort reform - and nevermind the other even more major concern of making an error because you’re having to hurry so much), the shift in respect some patients have for clinicians…really all of it. I feel as though you are in my brain. I recently left medicine after working as a PA, and I also was a non-traditional PA student. I don’t love the direction medicine has been heading throughout the 7 or so years I worked in clinical medicine as a PA, compared to where it was when I first finished PA school. So I basically opted out, for lack of a better term. Then I gave teaching in medicine a brief try after that and found that it was also not really for me. That was sort of my last try to stay within medicine. I’m doing the PANRE-LA now and keeping my license where I live, but…who knows if I’ll use it again. Now I’ve started my own business and am in the process of building a website for it (I originally went to school for visual arts and have decided to give that a try). It’s scary to make such a radical pivot, but as we well know from what we’ve seen in medicine, life is short, etc. I’ve enjoyed many of your videos, and I love that you speak what’s on your mind in a respectful way, but also without sugarcoating things. I guess I just wanted to share all that stuff above to show why/how I relate to much of what you say, and to say it’s nice to know there are others out there with similar thoughts and feelings about the current landscape of clinical medicine. So yeah…thank you again for what you’re doing. 😊
I love your comment! Thank you so much, and yes, commenting does help the algorithm. Also, it's just good to hear that people like what I do and helps them in some way! Trust me, I understand. I never feel like I can convey what I want to say very well either. Congrats on starting your own business. I'm not sure I understood. Are you building websites as a business or did you just mean you are building your own site? I seriously think that book The Pathless Path would be good for you to read. It will help reinforce what you are doing. Sometimes it's easy to question our decision to walk away, but this book really made me feel good about my choice. Best wishes to you in your new endeavors and I 'm proud of you for being courageous enough to make a change! Thanks again for watching and for your comment.
@@TheMedicineCouch Thank you for your response! I thought about that book when you mentioned it in the video. Now you’re mentioning it separately, and in a context that really makes me want to read it even more (the fact that it reinforced your personal choice). I’ll take this as a sign that I need to read it. Oh whoops! I missed your question. Let me add a response here… I am not building websites as my business - and thank goodness for that, because I am TERRIBLE at it, haha! I’m just building my own website for the purpose of selling the paintings I’m creating.
😂 Well, I wish you all the best and what you want to do. I’d also be curious to know what you think of the book after you read it. If you remember, come back here and give me your thoughts.
Erika, we were in Dr Singh's chemistry together. We were both so driven to be PA's. I share your sentiment about what has become of this career path and, just like you, have started a business outside of medicine. So glad there's this discussion because I felt very lonely disliking being a PA while everyone around me pretended to be happy.
@@lilylife4426 I know you were replying to Erika, but I wanted to agree with your comment. We definitely need to be talking about the issues surrounding working in medicine! I know for some, it is a great career, but not everyone feels that way and people looking to get into this career should understand that.
Hey there, Fellow NP here. Thank you for sharing this with the world! More people should talk about the dark and not-so-glamorous side of being a provider, such as the pressure to see more patients in a shorter time. If people want to go into nursing/medicine, it is a very thankless job at times, with very rude and entitled patients.
Yes, unfortunately, medicine has many downsides. I feel it's only fair to warn people so they really think through this decision. Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment!
Hi, Michele. I have been watching your video for a while now. this is my first time leaving a comment. I appreciate your honest thoughts and advice. it speaks so much true to me as i am in the same boat as you, asking myself every single day at work "is this for me? what have I gotten myself into?"
Unfortunately, I think a lot of people in medicine are asking themselves now days! I'm sorry that you are in the same club as me! As I said in the video, change things if you can, if not search for a position that you can enjoy. I really do believe they exist if we are open and really search for them. Whatever, your future holds, I really do wish you the best. I appreciate you watching and thank you for taking the time to leave a comment!
This is a troll post. The fact that you stated you paid that much is BS. I am a PA 1997. My daughter just graduated from a "private school " PA program. This literally is a troll youtube post.
I’m sorry that you were so upset by this post, but it is not a troll post. I was genuinely surprised when I figured out how much it actually cost ME to attend PA school. As a nontraditional student, the price was more than just tuition. I explain that very clearly in the video very early in the video. Opportunity costs are very real and something that older, nontraditional people need to consider if they are going back to school.
Do you think PA school is worth it? Would you advise others to go?
I would not just based off the poor work life balance, dismal benefits, and salary not commiserate with the huge upfront investment required for schooling, long-run stress and headache outweighs any benefits. Also, it's difficult to transition into non-clinical roles, lack of upward mobility as a mid-level provider does not make this career choice worth it.
I agree with you that the knowledge part is worth it, but the degree itself is disappointing. Too expensive, emotionally and physically draining, and there is barely any respect or ability to advance. Most of my friends from undergrad did CPA degrees and make better money and are happier.
@@lilylife4426 Talk about a flashback. I just texted you (if the number I have is still your number) to say hi! Look at The Medicine Couch - educating people about all facets of the PA path…and also reconnecting people 😁. I also agree that the knowledge itself is worth it, especially for me as a patient myself, and to help those close to me understand lab results etc. But on the other hand… yes to what @lilylife4426 said about the overall cost, financially and otherwise, of the PA degree. When my classmates and I were in school 10-12 years ago, I remember being told about all this balance we would have in our lives as PAs, but I personally saw very little of that. I think it would have been helpful and more realistic to maybe say, “your hours as a PA may be better than a CT surgeon or neurosurgeon who is on-call, but if you think you will come close to a 50-hour workweek on a regular basis, look elsewhere.” I was a PA in 4 different specialties: My “regular workweek” jobs were anything but; and my 12 hour shifts were rarely just 12 hours. Then you tack on any kind of a commute…and you’re looking at 55-60+ hours/wk, easy. Sometimes I hit the 70s. I realize that may be much less than surgeons…but, again, *raises hand* this gal is here to NOT be a surgeon. And also I’m not getting paid like one. So…yeah. And even if you somehow manage to keep your hours down, you’re faced with the current commercialization of medicine and all that comes with it. I think when it comes down to it, I am still passionate about science and medicine, and I am still passionate about applying that to patient care…but the patient care I believe in no longer exists, or exists in a very limited fashion, in today’s version of practicing medicine. Having the benefit of hindsight, if I were currently 10 to 15 years younger and at a professional turning point, rather than pursuing PA school, I would teach myself C++, Python, and Go to then secure a career in tech as a developer. Just as @lilylife4426 stated about her CPA friends, the money is better as a developer, and the ones I know seem happier. And the hours are better.
@@lilylife4426 I agree in some ways with what you've said. There is, unfortunately, a significant lack of respect out there for PAs in the workforce. And it certainly can be an emotionally and physically (and/or mentally) draining job!
However, I think we tend to put arbitrary limits ourselves on our degree. It may take some educating others as to what we are capable of, but I think tons of doors are open to clinicians, especially if they have a master's or doctorate degree. People just have to think out of the box and look at opportunities differently.
Hi Michele, Thanks for your candid comments and this video. As a non-traditional PA-C myself, I 100% agree with your sentiments and I'm glad you are creating awareness for prospective nontraditional recruits so they can make a more informed decision if considering career change to PA-C/NP
Thanks! I truly was shocked when I sat down and thought about this and came for that figure. I don’t know if it would’ve changed my mind at the time, but definitely something for nontraditional candidates to think about! I’m curious, are you still practicing?
Thanks again, and I really appreciate you watching and commenting!
@@TheMedicineCouchYes I am still in clinical practice. As nontraditional candidates, there's a lot to think about when leaving a steady income and benefits behind. Ideally what you want to avoid is making this difficult career transition only to find out your 2nd career choice is also leaving you unfulfilled and perhaps even more financially insecure! What I noticed from my personal experience is it's difficult to gauge the full scope of clinical practice during shadowing, volunteering etc. due to a) lack of time, and b) most preceptors/mentors are hesitant in sharing the downfalls of medicine. The industry in general promotes a self-preservation culture.
You’ve built a really interesting channel here on CZcams, and thank you for taking the time to make these videos. I’ve started to comment multiple times but have always deleted it, because I can’t get the words quite right. Figured I should give it a go anyway, because I think it helps the algorithm or helps your channel overall (?). Anyway, here goes…
I agree with so many of your expressed values re: not everything is about money, the value of the medical knowledge itself to help self and family, no point in second-guessing and “what if”-ing…as well as what you’ve said here and in other videos about the “business” of medicine’s almost assembly line mentality for clinicians to see more and more pts per shift/day, even though clinicians still have the concern about being sued (because there has certainly not been anything significant in the way of tort reform - and nevermind the other even more major concern of making an error because you’re having to hurry so much), the shift in respect some patients have for clinicians…really all of it. I feel as though you are in my brain.
I recently left medicine after working as a PA, and I also was a non-traditional PA student. I don’t love the direction medicine has been heading throughout the 7 or so years I worked in clinical medicine as a PA, compared to where it was when I first finished PA school. So I basically opted out, for lack of a better term. Then I gave teaching in medicine a brief try after that and found that it was also not really for me. That was sort of my last try to stay within medicine. I’m doing the PANRE-LA now and keeping my license where I live, but…who knows if I’ll use it again. Now I’ve started my own business and am in the process of building a website for it (I originally went to school for visual arts and have decided to give that a try). It’s scary to make such a radical pivot, but as we well know from what we’ve seen in medicine, life is short, etc.
I’ve enjoyed many of your videos, and I love that you speak what’s on your mind in a respectful way, but also without sugarcoating things. I guess I just wanted to share all that stuff above to show why/how I relate to much of what you say, and to say it’s nice to know there are others out there with similar thoughts and feelings about the current landscape of clinical medicine. So yeah…thank you again for what you’re doing. 😊
I love your comment! Thank you so much, and yes, commenting does help the algorithm. Also, it's just good to hear that people like what I do and helps them in some way!
Trust me, I understand. I never feel like I can convey what I want to say very well either.
Congrats on starting your own business. I'm not sure I understood. Are you building websites as a business or did you just mean you are building your own site?
I seriously think that book The Pathless Path would be good for you to read. It will help reinforce what you are doing. Sometimes it's easy to question our decision to walk away, but this book really made me feel good about my choice.
Best wishes to you in your new endeavors and I 'm proud of you for being courageous enough to make a change! Thanks again for watching and for your comment.
@@TheMedicineCouch Thank you for your response! I thought about that book when you mentioned it in the video. Now you’re mentioning it separately, and in a context that really makes me want to read it even more (the fact that it reinforced your personal choice). I’ll take this as a sign that I need to read it. Oh whoops! I missed your question. Let me add a response here… I am not building websites as my business - and thank goodness for that, because I am TERRIBLE at it, haha! I’m just building my own website for the purpose of selling the paintings I’m creating.
😂 Well, I wish you all the best and what you want to do. I’d also be curious to know what you think of the book after you read it. If you remember, come back here and give me your thoughts.
Erika, we were in Dr Singh's chemistry together. We were both so driven to be PA's. I share your sentiment about what has become of this career path and, just like you, have started a business outside of medicine. So glad there's this discussion because I felt very lonely disliking being a PA while everyone around me pretended to be happy.
@@lilylife4426 I know you were replying to Erika, but I wanted to agree with your comment. We definitely need to be talking about the issues surrounding working in medicine! I know for some, it is a great career, but not everyone feels that way and people looking to get into this career should understand that.
You’ve made the most of your situation, thank you for your content!❤
You're welcome. Thank YOU for watching and commenting!
Hey there, Fellow NP here. Thank you for sharing this with the world! More people should talk about the dark and not-so-glamorous side of being a provider, such as the pressure to see more patients in a shorter time. If people want to go into nursing/medicine, it is a very thankless job at times, with very rude and entitled patients.
Yes, unfortunately, medicine has many downsides. I feel it's only fair to warn people so they really think through this decision. Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment!
Hi, Michele. I have been watching your video for a while now. this is my first time leaving a comment. I appreciate your honest thoughts and advice. it speaks so much true to me as i am in the same boat as you, asking myself every single day at work "is this for me? what have I gotten myself into?"
Unfortunately, I think a lot of people in medicine are asking themselves now days! I'm sorry that you are in the same club as me! As I said in the video, change things if you can, if not search for a position that you can enjoy. I really do believe they exist if we are open and really search for them. Whatever, your future holds, I really do wish you the best. I appreciate you watching and thank you for taking the time to leave a comment!
This is a troll post. The fact that you stated you paid that much is BS. I am a PA 1997. My daughter just graduated from a "private school " PA program. This literally is a troll youtube post.
I’m sorry that you were so upset by this post, but it is not a troll post. I was genuinely surprised when I figured out how much it actually cost ME to attend PA school. As a nontraditional student, the price was more than just tuition. I explain that very clearly in the video very early in the video. Opportunity costs are very real and something that older, nontraditional people need to consider if they are going back to school.