Pay rises for teachers and the NHS will pay for themselves

Sdílet
Vložit
  • čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
  • The government will agonise over the cost of paying NHS workers and teachers the above inflation pay rises that have been recommended for them, but doing so is absurd. Once tax is taken in to account a large part of any payment due heads straight back to the government, quite quickly. So why does no politician ever talk about that?
    #uk #money #economic #politics #bank #nhs #health #teaching #education
    ABOUT RICHARD MURPHY
    Richard Murphy is Professor of Accounting Practice at Sheffield University Management School. He is director of Tax Research LLP and the author of the Funding the Future blog. His best known book is ‘The Joy of Tax’.
    This video was edited by Thomas Murphy.
    DONATE TO KEEP THIS CHANNEL ADVERT FREE
    ko-fi.com/taxr...
    RICHARD MURPHY ON TWITTER
    Follow Richard on his Twitter: RichardJMurphy or on his blog: www.taxresearch...
    HIT SUBSCRIBE & GET NOTIFICATIONS
    Subscribe and get notified of new videos released.
    INTRODUCTION: • Welcome to my channel ...
    PLAYLISTS:
    Accountancy: • Accounting
    Economics: • Economics
    Tax: • Tax
    Taxing Wealth Report: • Taxing Wealth Report 2024
    Green New Deal: • Green New Deal
    Money: • Money
    Questions from subscribers: • Questions
    Miscellaneous: • Miscellaneous
    #richardmurphy #richardjmurphy #economy #economics #accountancy #accounting #tax #uktax #ukeconomy #greennewdeal

Komentáře • 190

  • @jonathanblack3
    @jonathanblack3 Před měsícem +20

    Clearly, accurately explained, thanks

  • @fartingwalrus
    @fartingwalrus Před měsícem +4

    Why do NHS workers and teachers require 24% and 28% employer pension contributions? Who in the private sector receives anything near this?

    • @kalebdaark100
      @kalebdaark100 Před měsícem +1

      Who in the private sector receives anything near this? Execs mainly, but in the real world very few in one go. But over a decade and more a lot of the private sector got this.
      Why do NHS workers and teachers require 24% and 28% employer pension contributions? Because their pay hasn't been keeping up with inflation for more than a decade and other health care industries around the world will pay them more which will lead to us not having enough skilled people to do the job in an ageing society.

  • @michaelmayo3127
    @michaelmayo3127 Před měsícem +33

    Giving good wages, to those, that provide state services, is a good way of redistributing wealth and attracting talent. And of course; Richard you are right, but for one thing. Giving the Bees some of the honey; goes against the political grain of many politicians, Labour politicians there among!

    • @adenwellsmith6908
      @adenwellsmith6908 Před měsícem

      The money is being redistributed from the masses to a small group in the state.
      Its looting
      The man with his own special tax bill, passed by parliament, just so he can dodge taxes.
      The Pensions Increase (Pension Scheme for Keir Starmer QC) Regulations 2013

    • @davideyres955
      @davideyres955 Před měsícem

      It would be of the money was coming from people that don’t need it like the Duke of Westminster or the Elon musks of this world but since you want be able to tax them without a very unpopular legislation change which will be blocked by those very people, the money will come from the next in the queue. That is the middle class. Why should people that have strived and worked their arses off to get where they are pay for public sector waste. I’ve worked in both the public and private sector and see the vast amount of waste and incompetence in the public sector to know it isn’t efficient.
      It’s essential to keep some thing in public control, for example land registry, but other things are not well suited to public ownership like the trains. Imagine the strikes we would have seen if the train unions were let loose on a nationalise industry. Or if we still had British layland draining billions of pounds from the taxpayer to produce shit cars that no one will buy assuming they aren’t out on strike because the management asked them to do their jobs.
      Some of the figures Richard quotes here are pretty big assumptions and the issue is that the bill needs to be paid between settling and getting any of the taxes he states.
      The real issue is the funnelling of general workers pay away from the workers and onto the CEOs and other senior execs. Even some millionaires are recognising that under paying the people who create their wealth is causing their long term collapse.

    • @michaelmayo3127
      @michaelmayo3127 Před měsícem

      @@davideyres955
      "I’ve worked in both the public and private sector and see the vast amount of waste and incompetence in the public sector to know it isn’t efficient."
      The old myth "that the private sector is more efficient that the public sector" Lament.
      The trains run on time under public ownership and there was always a qualified gas fitter on call.
      " very unpopular legislation change" Unpopular for whom?
      "Why should people that have strived and worked their arses off to get"
      More conjecture!!
      "Imagine the strikes we would have seen" More conjecture; seeing ghosts that are not there and have no basis in reality or trade-union history!!
      "pretty big assumptions" they aren't assumption!!
      " funnelling of general workers pay away from the workers"
      The trade-unions are labouring under the yoke, of anti trade-union legislation. It's time to bin all anti trade union legislation and let the trade unions get on with the job, of collectively negotiating wage and working condition, without being hindered by parliament!!

    • @pingupenguin2474
      @pingupenguin2474 Před měsícem +1

      There is very little " public waste" as you call it, nowadays. Austerity has stripped out, not just any " fat" but a lot of essential muscle as well. That's why everything is crumbling, from literal buildings and roads to hospital service levels and the profits of companies, as their customer base ( whether public or privately employed) tries to keep itself fed, and a roof over its head, in a time of massive inflation. There is only so far that the belt can be tightened before it starts to choke you. And in the case of public bodies, those cutbacks result in genuine hardship for people needing the service they provide, and also results in a loss of efficiency for private firms.( for example, wear and tear plus delivery speeds due to them potholes)

    • @michaelmayo3127
      @michaelmayo3127 Před měsícem +2

      @@davideyres955 "I’ve worked in both the public and private sector and see the vast amount of waste and incompetence in the public sector to know it isn’t efficient."
      The old myth "that the private sector is more efficient that the public sector" Lament.
      The trains run on time under public ownership and there was always a qualified gas fitter on call.
      " very unpopular legislation change" Unpopular for whom?
      "Why should people that have strived and worked their arses off to get"
      More conjecture!!
      "Imagine the strikes we would have seen" More conjecture; seeing ghosts that are not there and have no basis in reality or trade-union history!!

  • @PM9Video
    @PM9Video Před měsícem +9

    Joined up thinking. I wonder where the newspapers have been in explaining this to the public over the past half century.

  • @jablot5054
    @jablot5054 Před 5 dny

    Get rid of % rises. £1k a month rise for a doctor, £ 60 a month for support staff. How does that cover cost of living? Give everyone £200 a month.

  • @magravy1
    @magravy1 Před měsícem +5

    Public sector workers need above inflation pay rises for some years to come.
    You have clearly demonstrated the weight of the tax burden we are living with.

    • @Mike-lb1hx
      @Mike-lb1hx Před měsícem +1

      why should public sector workers (who are already paid significantly higher than the wealth creators in the private sector) get an even bigger slice of the pie. If any money is spent it could be targetted at the lower paid using tax cuts to benefit both private and public sector low paid employees

    • @magravy1
      @magravy1 Před měsícem

      @@Mike-lb1hx aren’t wealth creators in a different pie from public sector workers?

  • @sweetvuvuzela4634
    @sweetvuvuzela4634 Před měsícem +7

    Lot of the nhs staff porters cleaners and so forth are doing two jobs to make ends meet it won’t take much for them to give up and move to retail

  • @craigburton4447
    @craigburton4447 Před měsícem +5

    Loads of people knew about this before the election, from Martin Lewis, john McDonnell, even Owen Jones FFS, Believing Labour didn't know this is beyond stupid

  • @dennismccarthy7032
    @dennismccarthy7032 Před měsícem +13

    Trickle up economics❤

    • @stephfoxwell4620
      @stephfoxwell4620 Před měsícem +1

      @@dennismccarthy7032 More creamed off.
      All productivity gains since 2008 have gone to the richest 5%.

  • @nickbarton3191
    @nickbarton3191 Před měsícem +5

    Well said.
    Another thing to take into account is the recruitment cost to replace nurses etc. that simply give up or go abroad.

    • @adenwellsmith6908
      @adenwellsmith6908 Před měsícem

      They aren't training them. The NHS business model is import workers.

    • @nickbarton3191
      @nickbarton3191 Před měsícem +1

      @@adenwellsmith6908 Sad but true and contrary to limiting immigration. Having said that, the best treatment I ever got in a UK hospital was from an Indian consultant, he really stood up for me in the face of UK medical staff.

    • @adenwellsmith6908
      @adenwellsmith6908 Před měsícem +1

      @@nickbarton3191 Look there are lots of people who have come to the UK, who are great to have here.
      The problem is that they aren't a large percentage.
      If we take the Manchester airport thugs. Turns out one has been claiming disability from the UK, but living in Pakistan for the past 2 years. For every one like your consultant, there are huge numbers of the other sort.
      That's the symptoms. What's the solution?
      In my view its easy.
      1. No criminals.
      2. No discrimination
      3. Net contributors only - a simple minimum tax code solves that combined with a zero welfare policy.

    • @nickbarton3191
      @nickbarton3191 Před měsícem

      @@adenwellsmith6908 Can't see fault with your solution except it would involve the Home Office actually doing their job to vet them, patently they haven't been. Just a string of failed ministers in post.

    • @adenwellsmith6908
      @adenwellsmith6908 Před měsícem

      @@nickbarton3191 Why vet? You want to come here, produce the criminal record evidence. For your country, they can get access by opening up their CRDB.
      The rest is nothing to do with the Home Office. It's a very simple minimum tax code of 40K a year, and that's HMRC.
      Or do you mean asylum?

  • @foxbat51
    @foxbat51 Před měsícem

    The government possibly don't understand? Are they still under the sway of neoliberal ideology? Who knows. This explanation helped me anyway.

  • @user-wq9lb6vp2h
    @user-wq9lb6vp2h Před měsícem +3

    It is blindingly obvious when it is pointed out that the economy that most of us are a part of works much better the more the money goes round. It needs to circulate to provide the activity that pays the wages to make stuff that is then bought and sustains the production of goods and the jobs that rely on that production. Your excellent explanation makes it clear that government also benefits from this activity and that it has a role in both promoting and facilitating this circulation. Paying public sector workers is no different to paying private sector workers - it's just money circulating. The 'product' is our ability to learn skills and knowledge to use in all sectors and healthcare that keeps us healthy enough to keeping working. This is real world economics ;-)

  • @equalitypeace1695
    @equalitypeace1695 Před 23 dny

    Great start by labour government. Putting public services first andvthe people who work in it

  • @Ciumi23
    @Ciumi23 Před měsícem +2

    It is like throwing a loaf of bread and asking for more productivity- when we already work understaffed and in a stressful environment for in my case more then 9 years . Who will pay for my 9 years of sacrifice working understaffed and providing quality of care at the spent of my health because believe me my health went down !!!!

  • @Sk8schoolCoUk
    @Sk8schoolCoUk Před měsícem +10

    Would love to see a debate with you , Gary (from Gary's economics) and Martin Lewis.... That would be super informative!

    • @daves_channel1491
      @daves_channel1491 Před měsícem +6

      I would say if you listen and understand all three, you have a much better understanding of what really needs to be done.

    • @Sk8schoolCoUk
      @Sk8schoolCoUk Před měsícem +2

      @@daves_channel1491 agreed 👍. .... However.... I'd still love to see all three of them in a room with Rachel Reeves.... That would really get things fixed fast!

  • @kevinsyd2012
    @kevinsyd2012 Před měsícem +4

    Unions have used this same multiplier effect argument for decades.

  • @dahistrix
    @dahistrix Před 14 dny

    Great news, school support staff however will only get 2.5%, just as important that they get a decent rise, can't run the school without them

  • @WarrenPeaceOG
    @WarrenPeaceOG Před měsícem +5

    My tiny little mind is blown🤪

  • @PaulsOldVids
    @PaulsOldVids Před měsícem +2

    Awarding public sector employees above inflation pay rises puts pressure on private sector employers to increase their pay offering in line with public sector. However, the govt will not benefit from the multiplier effect to the same extent as it would not be able to claim PAYE and NI back on the first cycle of pay. However, for private sector employers, costs will increase .So I think an argument for the govt to hold back public pay is to protect the private sector. This demonstrates how modern politics prioritise the needs of the private sector over the needs of it's citizens.

    • @rjw4762
      @rjw4762 Před měsícem +1

      The needs of its Citizens can ONLY be met by a successful Private Sector. Government get money from 3 sources, Borrow, Print and Tax - there is nothing else. The UK Government of the past 20 years has done so much of the first two, that they can now only go for Option 3 - as Labour will prove. I know it doesn't sit well with most Left-leaners, but without the Private Sector, there is nothing - other than a poor country with unhappy citizens.

    • @PaulsOldVids
      @PaulsOldVids Před měsícem

      @rjw4762 I think weather the govt borrow, print or spend its citizens will always end up paying as there simply is no such thing as something for nothing. Borrowing we end paying interest, printing money we end up with devaluation and inflation. What are the effects of high taxation? Reduced private investment, however it's a neoliberalist dream to believe in trickle down.

  • @rpfs2691
    @rpfs2691 Před měsícem +3

    You're way optimistic, mate. The right-wing press will claim correlation does not mean causation.
    Just like they're against crime protection programs. Because no-one sees it when you've prevented 12 kids from going criminal. But locking 12 kHz up, that is being hard on crime. That the prevention program would have been cheaper, both financially and I terms of social cohesion, not their problem.

  • @MrDoyley35
    @MrDoyley35 Před měsícem

    Liquidity is the beneficial outcome which they probably don’t realise but hey ho at least we will get our country back into growth!

  • @charliemoore2551
    @charliemoore2551 Před měsícem +28

    It's basic Keynes/Galbraith economics. It does have flaws but its application in the 1950s and 1960s let to the biggest and fastest rise in living standards in human history - much of it reversed over the last 45 years by Thatcherism, of course. The beauty of it is that money paid out to the lower paid flows immediately back into the economy because they spend it immediately. Thatcherite trickle down does not do this. A lot of it will leave the country and go into tax havens. With the rest, the rich buy assets such as rental housing which forces up house prices and allows them to soak up even more of the economy. It's a no brainer really. Keeping the lid on wages has led to stagnation and decline. Pay increases for the public sector, especially the lower paid sector, are win-win for everyone except the clients of the Tufton Street trolls who pay so much attention to this site.

    • @Redf322
      @Redf322 Před měsícem +2

      Do you really think they are Tufton street trolls? They don’t seem bright enough.

    • @keithparker1346
      @keithparker1346 Před měsícem +10

      I'm unemployed and if I was given a £2000 no strings payment I'd use it to upgrade a few essentials like clothes plus possibly buy some specific training. That money would go back into the economy very quickly

    • @charliemoore2551
      @charliemoore2551 Před měsícem +1

      @@Redf322 You think think that there might be bright people in Tufton Street? Why would they be there?

    • @Redf322
      @Redf322 Před měsícem +1

      @@charliemoore2551they can afford to pay decent wages. But i get it.

    • @Redf322
      @Redf322 Před měsícem +4

      @@keithparker1346true. I have been unemployed and if you fall below the line it is hard to get back up.

  • @michaelgreen5857
    @michaelgreen5857 Před měsícem

    For the people who are moaning NHS and teachers never got a pay increase with inflation when it was 10 % and above

  • @bakakafka4428
    @bakakafka4428 Před měsícem +14

    This Labour only knows one effect: the Holy Trickle Down Effect. Proven to be as bollocks as any other religion.

    • @Benzknees
      @Benzknees Před měsícem

      So money spent by one person doesn't end up in the pocket of someone else. It just disappears into the ether?

    • @markwelch3564
      @markwelch3564 Před měsícem

      ​@Benzknees that presumes it gets spent, and not stashed in tax havens or rentier assets

    • @Benzknees
      @Benzknees Před měsícem

      @@markwelch3564 - Any income from offshore assets coming to a UK resident gets taxed & spent here. 'Rentiers' pay others for their investments, which others then spend, whilst the investments support enterprises & the property markets, creating employment.

    • @markwelch3564
      @markwelch3564 Před měsícem

      @Benzknees I am not seeing any evidence that this cycle is actually happening - all I see is consolidation and monopolisation as capital concentrates in the hands of a tiny minority

    • @Benzknees
      @Benzknees Před měsícem

      @@markwelch3564 - The UK is at the lower end of the GINI "wealth inequality" index.

  • @cogsnbanjo
    @cogsnbanjo Před 27 dny

    And if the government says that the additional salaries have to be met by departmental efficiencies (ie no extra money from central government). It defacto means that the government gets a dividend because it is in effect cutting departmental budgets. It gets the money back from the teachers and health staff through taxation.

  • @davidmcculloch8490
    @davidmcculloch8490 Před měsícem +8

    Small state gives us inferior health and education. Since when has society prospered with that? We need change, and your explanation is poignant.

  • @rogermanvell4693
    @rogermanvell4693 Před měsícem +5

    Good point but I suspect the government may well demand increased productivity in return for a pay rise this may well mean more bureaucracy and increased micro management which will actually make workers less productive and less happy.

  • @debbiegilmour6171
    @debbiegilmour6171 Před měsícem +5

    5.5% is pittance.
    And while it might be above this year's inflation rate, inflation last year peaked at over 20%.
    No English public sector or military pay rises over the past 3 years even sum close to half of the total inflation over the same period.
    The pay review bodies should grow a pair and ask for 50%.

    • @user-fv1576
      @user-fv1576 Před měsícem +2

      😂try working in the private sector and getting nothing for 2 years

    • @debbiegilmour6171
      @debbiegilmour6171 Před měsícem +1

      @@user-fv1576 That's not a badge of honour, go and join a union and then vote on strike action.

    • @jamie81010
      @jamie81010 Před měsícem

      I wonder if you’ll say 5.5% is pittance when you get your bill from the builder

    • @debbiegilmour6171
      @debbiegilmour6171 Před měsícem

      @@jamie81010 Builders don't charge percentages. The analogy doesn't really work.

  • @BA11AGO65
    @BA11AGO65 Před měsícem

    Not sure if I've misunderstood Richard's point at around 2.30 where he takes the employer's NIC off the £100 or if Richard has made a mistake in his presentation. Employers NIC is an employers cost so wouldn't be included in the 5% increase. Employers NIC is usually paid by the employer so doesn't affect the 5% so can't be taken off.

  • @plagiarisedwords
    @plagiarisedwords Před měsícem

    A really important thing about the multiplier effect I wished you had covered is the savings rate.
    People on higher incomes dont spend the additional money they get. For example, I already save a decent chunk of my monthly pay and live comfortably (just not extravagantly). If i had £100 more i would just save it towards my pension and retire a few days earlier.
    The pay rises go more towards lower income public sectoe workers so they will likely spend all of the additional money.
    Taxing from rich and giving to poorer people is very good at stimulating growth in the economy. Tax cuts for rhe rich are not for the reasons above

  • @pingupenguin2474
    @pingupenguin2474 Před měsícem +1

    Well the new government are now showing that they DO seem to understand the benefits of giving decent pay rises to public sector workers ! Let's hope Richard and the gov. are right and it feeds through to help the economy and people's health and education.Certainly austerity hasn't done it.

  • @susanmiller1201
    @susanmiller1201 Před měsícem +6

    Such wisdom and commonsense! Probably why you are not a politician!

  • @colintawn3535
    @colintawn3535 Před měsícem +7

    You omitted to mention that a teacher on the lowest pay scale has to contribute 8.4% of gross earnings into their pension scheme but the employer has to contribute 28.8% into the pension scheme.
    Therefore irrespective of teachers pay scales the employer ie: Joe and Josephine Public via taxes will always be in debt to fund the pensions of teachers. Consequently in this instance pay rises will not pay for themselves nor cover costs.

    • @johnmulligan912
      @johnmulligan912 Před měsícem +3

      Well Colin I’m Joe Public and I have no problem with funding teachers,NHS etc,people who enrich society. If they receive a good pension and you don’t,it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t.We should all be given a decent pension.

    • @Redf322
      @Redf322 Před měsícem

      @@johnmulligan912i like the French system a bit more tax but you get three times the UK amount and retire at 60.

    • @colintawn3535
      @colintawn3535 Před měsícem +2

      ​@@johnmulligan912
      I did not say nor infer teachers and NHS staff should not receive a pay rise. The central thrust of my post is that public sector pay rises cannot pay for themselves.
      What I do find disappointing is that the first duty of government is the defence and welfare of the people. ( Note the order of wording ) Why are our armed forces personnel being excluded from this round of pay rises? Is a soldier on front line duty or being exposed to serious harm less worthy than a teacher or a nurse?

    • @michaelmayo3127
      @michaelmayo3127 Před měsícem +2

      You seem to have forgot; in your example, you make no mention the fact, that well educated people, make a very large contributions to the state purse. The product that a teacher provides is education. And the result of that product; is many fold. So your argument is a bit thin. If a teacher, in the course of his/hers teaching career, produce 200 well-educated persons, of which; all are in well paid employment, then the pensions pay to teachers by the state, is negligible. And the same goes for the NHS, the quicker they treat patients, the quicker they can retune to employment.

    • @rjw4762
      @rjw4762 Před měsícem +2

      @@johnmulligan912 I regret to say that we have to wonder to what extent our Teaching System and NHS DOES 'enrich' our society . The NHS has some of the worst 'outcomes' in the Western World (despite being the biggest Employer in the whole of Europe), and our Education system now teaches teenagers how to FEEL, not how to THINK. The young adults coming out of the British Education system are unprepared for the outside world, emotionally or cerebrally. Both need wholesale reform.

  • @garybradley2171
    @garybradley2171 Před měsícem +1

    I have been saying this for years… conflating public and private sector pay rises is like comparing apples to pears. Could I also suggest that, as all these employees also pay into pensions (actually superannuation) the government gains even more… as this will delay the point when the government has to make up the shortfall caused by the demographic balance shifting further and further towards retired public sector workers.

  • @andielines
    @andielines Před měsícem +2

    yebbut, unfortunately the pay increase 'money' will be borrowed from the banks with interest added. Unless you accept the fact that governments can create as much new money as they need. Then it actually all makes sense.

  • @dazecm
    @dazecm Před měsícem +1

    Good news for workers in important areas which we all benefit from. However, can someone explain to me why the £22 billion 'black hole in public finances is, erm, 'black'? Can they not list the areas where this cash went to because it certainly didn't seem to end up in areas that Reeves is going to apply cuts to such as public infrastructure. How is it possible for a government to create a 'black hole' in finances. Is there no concept of fiduciary duty, transparency and oversight by government regulators to prevent this seedy state of affairs? Is it made possible by the very politicians who play with our public purse making sure legislation means they have cash-spend mechanisms in place that allows them to hide where large amounts of money go?

  • @user-fv1576
    @user-fv1576 Před měsícem +2

    This will increase inflation.

  • @Mike-lb1hx
    @Mike-lb1hx Před měsícem +1

    The same logic applies to tax cuts especially to the low paid, in that they go out and spend it generating economic activity and taxes
    Tax cuts for the low paid both private & public sector would seem a more equitable use of the money
    (public sector wages are already higher than private sector ones especially when the generous pensions are considered)

  • @richardharvey1732
    @richardharvey1732 Před měsícem +2

    Hi Richard Murphy, thank you for doing this but there is one issue that I feel I must take with your statements. A pay increase of five percent is very far below the total inflation of the last ten years, even if the correct amount was offered it would not have any adverse effect on the real economy, pretty much all of the increased pay would all go straight back into the economy where nearly every transaction embodies some level of taxation all well as the direct income tax. This significant part of indirect taxation, VAT in particular is that it is levied on every transaction in the economic cycle, all the cash spent by workers changes hands several times each week.
    The fact that much of this is not included in the current economic model while all the money wasted on speculative gambling is counted as 'productivity', speaks only to the systemic corruption embedded in the current economic modelling.
    Cheers, Richard.

  • @narkeddiver7325
    @narkeddiver7325 Před měsícem

    I’ve always thought that everything is tax ;)

  • @Tulkash01
    @Tulkash01 Před měsícem

    You cannot expect a bunch of Bon Hayek’s devotees to be Abe to even conceive how the multiplier works…

  • @stephfoxwell4620
    @stephfoxwell4620 Před měsícem +2

    5.5% rise .
    Half of which is immediately clawed back in tax ,Nics and pension contributions.

    • @roberthuntley1090
      @roberthuntley1090 Před měsícem +1

      Plus another 9% clawed back if they are repaying a student loan.

    • @stephfoxwell4620
      @stephfoxwell4620 Před měsícem +1

      @@roberthuntley1090 Good point.
      My son has an MSc and pays 51% in deductions on every £ earned over £27,295.

    • @keithparker1346
      @keithparker1346 Před měsícem

      I never quite understand that if the average wage is £33k why student loans are repayable on salaries less than average. It's effectively saying get educated to get in debt for a below average pay job​@@stephfoxwell4620

  • @briangriffin2905
    @briangriffin2905 Před měsícem

    It's obscene the wages the CEOs get compared to the workers who actually do the work.

  • @Mike-lb1hx
    @Mike-lb1hx Před měsícem +2

    The pension cost to use your example is working life 46 years times two thirds times £100 = £3,067 so far from paying for itself it loads the state with huge off balance sheet liabilities
    (It is only beneficial if you use the childlike cash accounting that governments use which is like saying I am better off as I didn't pay the credit card bill)

  • @andymax1
    @andymax1 Před měsícem

    I wonder how their extra spending will contribute to inflation.

  • @johnwilliams7653
    @johnwilliams7653 Před měsícem

    There are none so blind as those that do not wish to see, none so deaf as…. Politicians.

  • @simpsond7862
    @simpsond7862 Před měsícem

    The top people in the NHS are paid very well it is nice to see some of the workers getting a raise. I retired 8 years ago a skilled worker on 13 pounds an hour Amazon pay that these days for packing boxes. Salary you have lost won't come back to you.

  • @charlescaudell9493
    @charlescaudell9493 Před měsícem

    Clearly, accurately explained. Thanks
    ( I had to watch it twice though!)

  • @user-tj5xu5vh5b
    @user-tj5xu5vh5b Před měsícem

    Well why give it to them if they won’t be better off?

  • @household6098
    @household6098 Před měsícem

    Just to put a couple of things into perspective...
    And i agree with what you're saying, don't get me wrong.. but for most people £100 pay increase is £100 of extra gross pay. That's what most ppl would understand. Not the total cost to the employer.
    You're coming at it from the employer's POV.
    Most ppl don't really think about the employer's national insurance - which is not actually a cost to the employee.
    So it does look a bit worse than it is - not much, but a bit.
    The VAT bit - well .... VAT is a can of worms... so some things will have VAT going back to the government... others won't. So assuming the remainder goes to VATable expenses is optimistic considering most ppl have some debt and you'd hope that they buy the odd vegetable as opposed to ultra processed foods only.

  • @MrOlleyOlley
    @MrOlleyOlley Před měsícem

    So public service pay rises is like an economy stimulus package.

  • @BOZ_11
    @BOZ_11 Před měsícem

    This is all convoluted. Taxes are purely inflation control, so aggregate tax levels need only to work to keep prices relatively stable. VAT needs to be scrapped for all things but luxury goods, it's a regressive tax. This is how you end up with 900000 page tax codes.

  • @JonathanJubb
    @JonathanJubb Před měsícem

    The multiplier effect, effectively....
    Should have waited: 8.11 says it all. (1968 Economics A level)

  • @brendanpells912
    @brendanpells912 Před měsícem +2

    Because public sector pensions are based on final salary, or average salary over the last few years, every time you give them an inflation-busting pay rise, that adds to the future liability for these pensions which is currently immense. Your calculations are ludicrous, and the same would apply if private sector workers were given similar pay rises. What is this unwritten rule that public sector pay should keep pace with inflation? Why doesn't it apply to everyone?

    • @markwelch3564
      @markwelch3564 Před měsícem

      If you accept below inflation pay, you're accepting getting poorer. Why should anyone accept that?

  • @roymillsjnr5172
    @roymillsjnr5172 Před měsícem +1

    I wish I had paid more attention to all this when I was younger Richard, I'm going to find my old pay slips.and look at them , all the double shifts I did ,and my pension is crap 😂 that's being a thicko .

  • @user-kl1zh8lv3o
    @user-kl1zh8lv3o Před měsícem

    So why didn’t the Tory’s do this??

  • @Christmascancelled
    @Christmascancelled Před měsícem +1

    They have just cancelled our new hospital. Disgusting labour.

    • @Redf322
      @Redf322 Před měsícem +1

      What hospital is that? When was it cancelled?

  • @MrRoblig1
    @MrRoblig1 Před měsícem

    What is the point of an economy that favours and serves only a few. I've a relatively stable job in the NHS , so i am in work and guess what I'm struggling to meet my commitments on a crappy salary . Decade upon decade of stagnation austerity... it really is pointless working to stand still. £100 pay rise is pathetic.

  • @tropics8407
    @tropics8407 Před měsícem

    How depressing 🙁

  • @abody499
    @abody499 Před měsícem

    Teachers are already overworked and underpaid, so it's not only the pay rise required, it's a lot of new teachers required as well to share the workload.
    Measuring teacher "productivity" is basically impossible. How does an inspectorate determine the "effectiveness" of a teacher when the learner's entire sociohistorical world contributes to their outcomes, i.e. not just _a_ teacher, but _all_ their teachers, their peers, their home environment, their this their that, even their parents' backgrounds and so on - including teacher factors, learner factors, and contextual factors?
    To get any sort of valid measure of how effective a teacher is requires a lot of resources and will never be a straightforward accounting of student test scores - if any measure amounts to outcomes achieved in standardised tests, then we can safely say it's a meaningless number.

  • @shabble
    @shabble Před měsícem +4

    ... thus inadvertantly proving we're being taxed far,far too much!

  • @paulgibbons2320
    @paulgibbons2320 Před měsícem +1

    Most of the money will go towards rents and mortgages.
    This moves money out of the system. Same as any money put in an ISA or saved.
    If this logoc worked, nobody would object to pay rises.
    If it gives in to pay rise to nurses and junior doctors, everyone else goes straight on strike.

  • @craighollick8181
    @craighollick8181 Před měsícem +1

    Brilliant video

  • @Sam3532
    @Sam3532 Před měsícem

    5% IS THE LEAST THEY CAN DO, it should be at least double! They have fallen behind on important pay rises and it would more than pay for itself as u say - in a myriad of ways it would uplift many minor unrecognised aspects of many ppls lives & the economy! Fuck trickle down economics qe for the poor not the banksters!

  • @user-xu5vl5th9n
    @user-xu5vl5th9n Před měsícem +1

    Next week, the perpetual motion machine...

    • @Nick3DvB
      @Nick3DvB Před měsícem +1

      The one they've got hooked-up the printing press? ; )

    • @onlytm981
      @onlytm981 Před měsícem

      @@Nick3DvB Hold on tightly to your wheelbarrow ; )

  • @adenwellsmith6908
    @adenwellsmith6908 Před měsícem +1

    And when it doesn't we revoke the increase. We cut pay, and use that money to employ and train more staff.

    • @mattevans8257
      @mattevans8257 Před měsícem

      There are tens of thousands of vacant posts, if you cut pay you will not employ anyone.

  • @Ozman676
    @Ozman676 Před měsícem

    Money,money,money. Slush fund money sent overseas would more than solve these problems.

    • @geoffwright9570
      @geoffwright9570 Před měsícem

      Didn't you know there's this thing known as money trees but, and there is a but. It only exists to politicians. In reality we know it as tax payers in short US.

    • @Ozman676
      @Ozman676 Před měsícem +1

      @@geoffwright9570And didn’t you know,Tax is theft.

    • @Redf322
      @Redf322 Před měsícem

      @@Ozman676tax is paying your fair share. Are you American?

  • @paulgibbons2320
    @paulgibbons2320 Před měsícem +1

    If the private sector sees the public sector getting pay rise, then they will also ask for the rises. This closes businesses and leads to redundancies.

    • @keithparker1346
      @keithparker1346 Před měsícem

      Why would the first happen?

    • @paulgibbons2320
      @paulgibbons2320 Před měsícem

      @keithparker1346 Envy. Keeping up with the Jones. Private sector would not wish to fall behind.
      Why would they accept below inflation wages while the public sector are getting their demands met. Tik always follows Tok.

    • @keithparker1346
      @keithparker1346 Před měsícem

      @@paulgibbons2320 similar private sector employees are typically paid more than public sector it's why doctors and nurses leave

    • @paulgibbons2320
      @paulgibbons2320 Před měsícem

      @keithparker1346 These people are motivated by money they like been paid more. They don't want to see the gap closing, or they would be better off in the public sector.
      Never under estimate greed. It's a universal constant.

    • @keithparker1346
      @keithparker1346 Před měsícem

      @@paulgibbons2320 so they'd want OTHER people earning less money?

  • @legtrax2021
    @legtrax2021 Před měsícem +1

    An interesting take, but there are some flaws in the argument. Let's take an NHS nurse as an example. Although employer's NI and employer's pension contributions are paid by the Trust employer, unless they are funded by increased govt payments to the trust, the cash-strapped Trust will need to fund these payments and potentially employ fewer staff as a result. Employers NI is 13.8% and the Trust's pension contribution is currently 14.38%. So each £100 pay increase effectively costs £128.18.
    Also, the 20% VAT paid on goods and services is not wholly passed to the Government. VAT paid by the retailer/service provider on, for example, the cost of buying in the goods to be sold, or the raw materials used to manufacture the goods, is netted off first.
    So the general point re a NHS payrise of £100 not costing the Government £100 is sound, but the calculations used in this video are flawed.

  • @dominic8218
    @dominic8218 Před měsícem +1

    Great. We should give everyone a pay rise then. Wonder what the long term effect would be on inflation, mortgages etc.

    • @Stefano-o5f
      @Stefano-o5f Před měsícem +5

      Yeah , but giving away £600 billions to rich mates didn't cause inflation.. it's only when working class gets £100 extra, that's causing inflation...

    • @dominic8218
      @dominic8218 Před měsícem +1

      @@Stefano-o5f it was just a question Steven. Back you go in your box.

    • @michaelmayo3127
      @michaelmayo3127 Před měsícem

      Giving state employed; a pay rise, doesn't cause inflation - because their services are free at the point of use.

    • @Redf322
      @Redf322 Před měsícem +2

      Remember these people providing vital public services have not had a decent rise in years. Some are using food banks

    • @Stefano-o5f
      @Stefano-o5f Před měsícem +1

      @@dominic8218 the answer is this: giving away to the rich cause inflation because they don't spend it on physical goods, they just send it offshore to tax havens. Giving money to working class doesn't increase inflation because they will spend it which will translate to more business, more jobs. Stop watching GB news mate even if that's all you can understand.

  • @richardellis4824
    @richardellis4824 Před měsícem

    It all makes sense. But to reduce productivity to a simple matter of students per teacher or patients per nurse is crazy. We all know every organisation has unnecessary activity or functions that could be improved.

  • @ParcBlondel
    @ParcBlondel Před měsícem

    And the pensions, which you deliberately didn't mention, take over 30% in money paid back to the government to pay for teachers pensions. As private schools are also included in the teachers pensions scheme, some of the extra pay private school teachers will get to compensate their wages in relation to public sector teachers, will also go to the government!

  • @jim-es8qk
    @jim-es8qk Před měsícem

    It won't

  • @thedealermusic
    @thedealermusic Před měsícem

    You were wrong thankfully

  • @albasasrobertmitchell5682
    @albasasrobertmitchell5682 Před měsícem

    Surprised as this is a bit flawed. Employers NIC, (E'rs), is a cost to the employer not the employee. So add that E'rs NIC of £12.13 back to the £87.87 and give it back to the employee. Ironically, this, infamous, tax on jobs, will in the case of public sector pay rises, not come from commercial profits made in the private sector, but paradoxically, straight from the government to fund yet again. Surely? So a straight forward government tax, imposed on government jobs, (public sector) requiring a budget for additional funding. Obviously whatever consumer spending goes on after basic rate income tax will be subject to both value added and indirect taxes on utilities & vehicles, enriching the government's coffers, I agree. Stimulating the economy. However I take issue that E'rs NIC will pay for itself in the public sector. Private yes.

  • @mortelski5814
    @mortelski5814 Před měsícem +3

    Leaving out the future pensions liabilities makes this overly simplistic video even more laughable. Why not use your undoubted economic acuity to examine the effects of public sector pensions apartheid over the last 25 years. Take, for example, how much a nurse working in the private sector would have to contribute to their DC pension pot to achieve the same index-linked future retirement income as a nurse doing the same job on the same pay, but in the public sector gold plated DB scheme. (Last time I tried the calculation it was about 4 times as much) The difference is iniquitous and equally applies to the majority suffering in the private sector. Also the idea of general pay rises to keep wages up with inflation, without some sort of promotion or productivity increase hasn’t been seen in the private sector since just after the millennium. How are these still justified in the public sector, and how is it justifiable that my taxes (on the wealth I have had to create to fund the pensions apartheid gap) will be increased to pay for these?

  • @MrAlwaysBlue
    @MrAlwaysBlue Před měsícem +1

    Not fully correct. You suggest the employers NI is for free. The Govt could forego this so it stays in the hospitals, schools etc for investment. However it collects this. Though the staff get a pay rise, the hospitals, schools are worse off as they have to pay it without any increase in budget. It is going to be spanked on Ukraine, Illegal migrants, and the economically (some may call them layabouts).

    • @keithparker1346
      @keithparker1346 Před měsícem

      Perhaps we should have the govt actively helping people claim the £19billion in unclaimed benefits

  • @polyphonics557
    @polyphonics557 Před měsícem

    Yes and No. A lot of the NHS workers are foreign nationals/dual foreign nationals/former foreign nationals who send money to foreign countries and the minute that money leaves the UK that is the end of any UK taxation on that money. Annual foreign remittances are not small. The also consider that part of the NHS problem is not enough Doctors and Nurses so the higher salaries increase the cost of trying to employ more staff.
    The logic of income tax is so that the Government has it's finger at every point in the financial transfer chain. If you want to get economic growth then scrap income tax altogether and increase VAT and close VAT loopholes. Scrapping income tax will save the Government a large amount on an inefficient Income Tax department and people will feel like that have more money without having given anybody a a pay rise and "parasite tax" schemes wealthy people "legally" use to "avoid" income tax will disappear because there will be no benefit to using them. No Income Tax.....I promise that a lot of the currently unemployed will suddenly start working.

  • @thpark8189
    @thpark8189 Před měsícem

    We know how you like full financial disclosure. When are you going to make a video criticising Labour for failing to disclose the identities of the secretive “West Midlands Breakfast Club”, that contributed £130,530to the Labour Party prior to the election? Should we know who is making huge contributions and buying influence?

  • @moonlit_forest2680
    @moonlit_forest2680 Před měsícem

    Except it is fully funded. So learn to stop spreading misinformation

  • @stevendavies7358
    @stevendavies7358 Před měsícem

    The government understands this but by not giving the pay raise they can inflict more misery on the workers that’s the goal.Billions for the Ukraine hundreds of billions for pandemic not a problem