Colluding with Being Ignored and Self Betrayal in Relationships
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- Hello. Thanks for checking out my CZcams channel.
In my videos, I like to talk about Psychology, Healing Attachment Trauma, Relationship Repair, Inner Child Self-Re-Parenting, Love Addiction, Codependency, Grieving Break Ups, Family Programming, Fantasy Relationships, The Romantic Narrative, Primal Panic, Trauma Bonding, Double-Binds, Attachment Styles, Couples Counseling, Better Boundaries, Shame and Self-love, CPTSD Breakthroughs, Emotional Availability, and Body-Focused Psychotherapy for Healing Trauma..
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Alan Robarge, LPC, Licensed Professional Counselor,
Attachment-Focused, Trauma-Informed,
Psychotherapist and Relationship Educator
Emotional Connections Matter!
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Colluding with Being Ignored and Self Betrayal in Relationships
In this video, I talk about the double-bind experience of needing to ignore and betray oneself when attempting to stay in a relationship with someone who is emotionally unavailable and withholding emotional connection (openness, attunement, harmony, resonance, etc.). It's a highly confusing and complex pattern of dysfunctional relating that is crushingly painful and ultimately makes relating impossible.
Questions to answer in the comments section:
What is one thing you learned from listening to this video?
What is one takeaway you can apply to your personal healing process?
Remember to leave a comment. What is your takeaway from this video?
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Colluding with Being Ignored and Self Betrayal in Relationships
![Is it Because of Me? [Healing From Betrayal Trauma]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/g_vvxaHHDVw/mqdefault.jpg)
Hello Subscribers:
Thank you for checking out my videos and posting such thoughtful comments. It's inspiring to read your self-reflections and insights. I love how we grow from each other's sharing.
One thing I have learned after years of reading comments is that we are not alone. Many of us have the same experiences when it comes to relationships. We are all trying to make sense of attachment trauma and learn better skills of relating.
Great job everyone - keep going and keep learning!
As I'm sure you can understand, I'm not able to respond to all the comments and questions here on CZcams. I know this can be disappointing sometimes. Please forgive me. It is challenging to find the time for the careful consideration that is needed in order to respond to your heartfelt reflections. Even so, your vulnerability shines through.
I know behind each comment is a real person with real feelings who's hurting or who’s reporting a triumph. I know you are doing the best you can while trying to make sense of life’s suffering. We are all grappling with what it means to be human. I’m sorry that I’m not always able to respond to your comments directly.
That being said, I'm sharing this post to offer you a few resources in an attempt for us to stay connected. Keep in mind that I do read most comments here on CZcams. Your words are received. I review comments daily, which serves as a way to organize content for future videos.
If you have a question or an idea for a video that you think is important to explore when it comes to learning about relationships and healing attachment trauma, then I want to hear about it. Please submit your questions and ideas here: www.alanrobarge.com/questions
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Many of us want to know how to heal, how to change, how to be more secure in our relationships. This is why I created the course The Four Attachment Distress Responses.
Many of our behaviors in relationships are habitual - meaning we act out of autopilot. Our autopilot Response comes from past conditioning of negative experiences. When attachment injuries go unaddressed, we become insecure in our relationships.
The Four Attachment Distress Responses Course describes each specific type of guardedness, which is how we try to protect ourselves from getting hurt again, while also attempting to get our attachment needs met.
While we cannot change the past, we can change how we respond in the moment and in the future. This course offers you insights and tools as new ways to respond in your relationships. The Four Responses are Poking, Running, Hiding, and Submitting. You’re invited to take the quiz to learn more about your Response.
Take The Four Attachment Distress Responses Quiz: www.alanrobarge.com/adrquiz
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I created an 8-week program and membership community based on the guiding principle of Self-Directed Healing Work #selfhealers that I want to share with you. The community is called Improve Your Relationships. The focus is about healing attachment injuries in the context of relationship repair in all areas of our lives.
When we look at the big picture of how attachment injuries and attachment trauma occurred in our lives, we are able to begin seeing our relationship choices from a whole new perspective. We gain access to inner resources that shift how we relate and respond to old hurts. It's a process. It's layered. It requires commitment. This is what the community is all about - committing to your healing work.
You are invited to join us. The community members are kind and supportive. We are an established group. The feedback and testimonials have been overwhelmingly positive.
Please check out the link for more information: www.alanrobarge.com/community
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Also, in addition to checking out my course and/or joining us in the Community, please consider becoming a Sustaining Supporter by making a financial contribution.
Your contribution helps guarantee continued quality and accessible content. If you benefit from my videos and want to show your support for the value offered, then please make a donation: www.alanrobarge.com/donate
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Thank you for being a channel subscriber and watching my videos.
And remember, we invest in our healing work because “Emotional Connections Matter!”
Best regards,
Alan Robarge
Attachment-Focused Psychotherapist
www.alanrobarge.com/
ThankYOU😅 For Sharing Such Valuable Insight
Is the situation different if the person is on the spectrum?
It’s very painful to be a highly conscious and emotional person
I agree Nicole, for me it felt like those two gifts were more of a heavy burden! I think it's the people we choose to be around and have relationship with, that are the real burden. If we were lucky enough to be surrounded by other genuine people who valued goodness and emotional connection as much as we do, we would be the happiest people alive!! 😊♥
Indeed it is.
Touch where your pain is & ask it where the feeling is, then I it anger grief frustration. Then release the present attachment to the moment of pain from a hard wiring of the causal pain, which is felt sense since developmental even predevelop mental. Hug your pain give your self deep self compassion.
It's truly amazing when Someone finally puts this into words. It's been my "normal" for so long it's been excruciating.
Amanda Lopez I married a copy of my mother. It took time to realise, even though I knew I never loved him. The disconnect and cruelness felt nicely familiar, but eventually I felt I lived in a lie. I couldn't respect him And respect myself. And I felt so lonely.
I finally mustered the courage to go. The feeling of relief was overwhelming and growth could slowly begin.
It took time to realise my "normal" was not normal!
Often when you come from a family of low relating, the fact that you are being ignored feels normal.
Gulliver7 also some are introverts
@@maplenook I think it is totally missing the point to state being an introvert (or extrovert) is a factor in what he is explaining...
@@maplenook I totally agree - being an introverted personality type also plays a part. I am an INFJ and so I have a biological bent towards this problem.
Susan Webster I’m an INFJ as well but I still don’t agree that the points he is expressing in video have anything to do with being introvert...being an introvert OR an extrovert would just add a different layer to it all ...
@@barbiekat6887 I totally agree, both introvert or extrovert require high quality, emotionally intelligent relationships. I am also an introvert but I have a few interpersonal relationships that I'd be lost without and I would immediately be aware if my emotional output was not being reciprocated and that would be crushing.
When he said "It's actually the best part of me" I was almost reduced to tears.....no one should allow to be denied the best part of them
I'm glad that part was moving for you. I appreciate the declaration. Thanks for your comment.
@@AlanRobargeHealingTrauma Thank you!!
you're welcome.
Me too 🥺
Forget years worth of therapy! All you have to do is listen to Alan's videos and your healing will truly begin! Alan thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, your wisdom, and your true self with us. I hope you realize how greatly you have helped so many of us. You are awesome!
Fran Davis I
During months of therapy, I was advised and convinced to remain in a non emotional relationship where all trust was non existent. Moving forward, 5 years later, I’m removing myself from this destructive union and being validated this Video to remain strong and break this cycle. Thank you Alan for your powerful series and wisdom 🙏
I totally agree. My gut feeling of not wanting to maintain an emotional connection to a dysfunctional in-law makes so much sense after watching Alan's videos. Completed 4 years of therapy and nowhere near as valuable as *these videos.
yes, that is true, unfortunately the cost of health care is so high, that doctors today see you for 15 minutes , give you pills. and the problem never gets solved. you get addicted and they get rich !
yes , that is true, today doctors see you for 15 minutes, give you pills, never really solving the problem. They get rich and you get addicted!
I just left a relationship like this. He tried to convince me I was crazy for being upset about our lack of closeness. I was literally physically ill. Thank you for validating this feeling. The anxiety is diminishing. Bless you
Empathy to you. These dynamics can be challenging. Many of us have been there. Thank you for valuing my efforts to offer explanation. Glad it brings benefit.
@conniebootland3028 Hello, I hope you are better now. So, I'm a guy, kinda anxious but aware of it and working at it. I'm also upset with my wife's lack of closeness. We're trying to work on it. It's civil and I'm trying like hell to heal, learn and be patient, but she's not going so well with the healing, not opening up, among other things.
So, I'm wondering your perspective on the lack of closeness felt by your partner.
If you don't mind me asking, how did you feel about that closeness? Not a dig at you at all, but I sympathize with the partner in the way you describe (although I would never call my wife crazy, just very defensive).
I imagine she might think I think she has issues, and she about myself, and we're right because we discussed them.
So, what happened? So curious. I'm going crazy because of her lack of trying to match some of the emotional energy, but just hides instead of heals. I'm not sure how much longer I can "self betray."
Omg my life. Sad. I have loved this man very much but can see he is really incapable of connecting with me in the way I need. 😢 I have kept hanging on hoping things could change. Ultimately, I have betrayed my self for the sake of the relationship.
That is one of the toughest situations to deal with in life. It feels like your life being ripped from you. I feel you and hope things change. Society is shifting. If we can all share more of these videos and heal ourselves, I do believe we can help these shut off people more.
Same
I know exactly what you mean. I’ve finally decided it’s time for me to turn the page and move on. It hurts so much though. I hope you have, now, found happiness.
Yup
Janis, how are things for u now? It's been 2 years now.
Hi Alan, what a great video. My wife and I fight about this subject over and over again. She has the need for deeper relationship. I do too. I just did not understand what she was always trying to tell me. She sent me the link to your video. Fantastic. I now understand what she goes through with me. It is a kind of abuse. I love my wife more than anything else. It is disgusting what I have done and am doing to her. Now all I need to do is find out how to open up and share from the depths of my heart. I never again want to be the one who causes this kind of hurt. I immediately subscribed to your channel.
What a truly good man you are!
Thank You, for sharing your experience.
It’s an attractive quality in a person to see the need for change and do something about it instead of blaming or ignoring. Good job!
Michael with that attitude you are in with a good chance of meeting your wife half way, all the very best to you both
I am impressed with your level of honesty with yourself. I hope you and your wife are doing well!
YESSSSS!!!!!! It’s like I’m selling myself out when I try to pretend the elephant in the room doesn’t exist......and become more frustrated and torn every time I allow myself to delude reality and simultaneously the elephant grows larger and more difficult to ignore.
Yes
Amazing video. So many delusions around changing something that cannot be changed, because the other person has no interest or depth to change...
you have described my lifetime of confusion...
Angel Novak ...me2.
The collusion of self-betrayl is a double-bind in that there's a feeling of betrayal of self when allowing a relationship of importance to exist at a substandard level, a level which ignores the integrity of need to emotionally engage with the significant other. The ego takes a massive hit when 2 humans act like goods without a shred of emotive connection. it is massively dehumanizing, cold and ultimately a cop out to the relationship that could have been...No salvation for the unsalvagable? This totally goes against human nature!
The most crazy paradox in such situations is that the one with the connect abilities is finally going to abandon the other, who is not willing to connect but keeps up the empty relationship and might complain about it when you go!
Such a sad way to live, closed off from the fullness of life. Empathy to all who deal with this difficult dynamic in family relationships. I lived it for 28 year. I enjoy my new way of relating. Harvard did a study that when we connect with others it releases serotonin. I already knew that because I feel so very happy after great connecting conversations.
Emotional connection is so beautiful that trying to have that with someone who is practically dead inside is draining and no help for the person and especially yourself. Thank you for this video
Yep. That's why you can't wait for people to change. Move on.
Word
Thank you again Alan. For 67 years I have been trying to connect to my sisters and mother without success. Your explanation makes sense.I have to just let them go. Im not trying anymore. They simply dont want to see me or know me other than to get narcissistic supply. Thank you for validating the crushing pain I have felt for so long
I just listened to this video. I hope you were able to do that Mary. That is my plan with my brother and sister after trying for 64 years.
You are a genius! Brilliant work! 💙
I reached this point at 36ish; still processing it. It helps me to think of it this way: being mad at those who cannot connect with me is like being mad at a fish for not being able to ride a bike. They just cannot do it.... it’s not their choice or ours. 💜
Mary o'connor
I am sorry to hear that you experienced this.
Sending you a hug and acknowledging the excruciating pain and grief that comes with this type of loss. It’s so hard. You’re not alone and I hope you have close confidants or a therapist who can guide you through this with loving care and emotional support. I went through (and still am) something similar and I’m almost 60 now. Bless you ❤️
Discovered your channel last night. I don’t cry. EVER. I needed to find your content. Literally, the most validating content I have ever heard. Trying not to binge watch. I want the healing so badly. Trying to explain this to loved ones sounds like whining or being a victim. But man… I am betraying myself going without deep emotional connection. Thank you. ❤
I appreciate the comment. Thank you for sharing that my work speaks to you. Thank you for valuing my effort.
If you like the videos then you may also like getting in on our conversations in the Community Program, Improve Your Relationships. You're invited to join us. www.alanrobarge.com/community
What an amazing video. I had church with you today. Thank you.
He does preach. I would definitely go to a church that had a pastor like Alan. I would tithe happily. This info is priceless! ❤️
Yesssss. You really do feel hungry. Emotionally starved and neglected. I tried to just accept reality and participate. But it's tortuous and distressful physically, mentally and emotionally. Thank you for this video!!!
Empathy to you. Many of us have also been there. Wishing you self-gentleness.
Glad this video spoke to you. It's important to keep talking about relationship dynamics. This topic comes up in our conversations in the Community Program, Improve Your Relationships. You're invited to join us. www.alanrobarge.com/community
Alan, you have a superhuman ability to weave together such a complex tapestry of aspects of human relations so as to make it understandable at the simplest level. I can't thank you enough for the gift you gave me with this video. The universe has blessed me with your presence, and your teachings.
Me too !
I totally agree, I cannot believe anyone can be so insightful, and find exact words to describe the invisible upon which makes the world go round .... or not
I totally agree! Alan is so on point! He is a major part of my emotional healing. He cuts through the bullshit and tells you the truth of the matter. The truth we can’t admit to ourselves, but he can articulate with such precision.
Isn't it amazing?!
Ditto Andre.
Oh, spot on, living the fake relationship. The pain of self betrayal, no emotional relationship. I do suffer physically and I deny myself. I have to think of myself and my wellbeing.
As I have refused to collude, been shamed for my emotionally open and curious nature and, last week discarded by my partner and the father of our precious 18 month old daughter, this is PURE validation! ❤
Glad this is validating. Thank you for valuing my work.
This topic comes up in conversations in the Improve Your Relationships Community Program. You may like joining us:
www.alanrobarge.com/community
Hi. I am a 50 year old woman with a solid, consistent history of complex trauma. I was separated from my primary caregivers with my twin at a year old, and placed in a violent household. Subsequently lost my two other siblings to suicide.
What you are describing is some thing I thought it would be impossible to say in words.
You are literally describing parts of my brain that I didn’t think anyone would ever understand, much less offer some sort of compassion for.
My favorite part of this video is when you say ‘ I don’t know. There’s no easy answer to that.’ Because everyone else around me had a more difficult difficult time seeing what was really happening.
When I lost my twin , I thought I would never be able to speak to that phenomenon with another person again
My panic is uncontrollable, and because I’ve the last three years I’ve consistent trauma through loss of close relationships because of death, or because I realize that relationships that I had, since were based on an uneven exchange of respect, and I had given up as far as self-respect, to agree with their relationship expectations
It is only within the last four or five years that I realized what I had agreed to give up of myself as a 14-year-old that needed support in a terrifying environment was not the same thing that I was willing to give up as an adult
Because of the trauma, the intellectually sound decision has been so very very painful. Because other people don’t see the complexity of the situation for trauma survivor., the relatively easy answer looks obvious.
But you can’t recommend a course of action, unless you know the whole story
For someone like me, Trying to describe this type of episode leaves me dissolving in emotional descriptions that sound like white noise
All it does is help the descriptions look more like disregard material
It literally goes against providing a deeper understanding.
After three years, I’ve found myself in a safe place, and I’ve been extremely lucky to have good friends. Most of my family is gone and I have lost my relationship with my daughter because people in my life have looked at this phenomena and provided the easy answer nearly criminalizes me.
My primal panic is triggered several times a week and the shame that that carries is huge.
When I say that these episodes are physical reactions, and not a conscious decision to manipulate another person, even in myself, I felt some guilt and doubt, as if there were something in my character that I didn’t know about that, I was being dishonest if I didn’t acknowledge.
Hearing you talk about what happens to my nervous system, how it is tied into my body chemistry, and hearing the term “primal panic.’ Felt like I was hearing my own language for the first time.
I wanted to note something : I realize that this video was seven years ago, and at the beginning of your journey, and I know that compared to some of the shorter clips that are offered for the general public, your videos are less buzzwords and more clinical language.
This video has been more helpful for me than 1000 of those
Every time I watch them, and the solution was so obvious, I felt like I was a failure for not seeing it myself
, No one has ever actually acknowledged the level of the importance of these things to a trauma survivor so it’s just feels like I’m some kind of wussy that can’t handle whatever everybody else handles without this kind of difficulty.
I’ve been made to feel, as if what I experience is, the same thing that everyone else experiences, and any attempt to provide a deeper understanding by me, looks like a self-centeredness and narcissism
I feel like that weight has been lifted from my shoulders, even if no one else ever understands it again
Primal panic. It has a name.
For someone else, the grief that can rise to the level of primal panic, but it will hit that stay there for a few days and taper off
I have never had words to compare my experience to a non-trauma survivors experience in a way that might give them understanding out of the shared knowledge of the depth of grief.
But even if they don’t understand, I do now
Now I know exactly what it is. I need to work on the most and how it’s tied up.
I’ve read a lot on CPTSD and BPD, and as much as I see the good intentions CBT, I feel like sometimes it misses the point.
Verbally, disregarding what that reaction is to try to give it less severe language, and make it less painful, for someone like me, Means that to be healthy I need to ignore that part of myself VAP can react in this way, rather than help it grow and catch up with my life.
About six years ago, I realized how complex all of this really is and how difficult it is to untangled the knot even enough to look at how much string I have.
The language shouldn’t be accessible to everyone, because thank God, not everyone needs to know
But I do I cannot thank you enough for your factual descriptions and the compassion with which she deliver them
Thank you, thank you thank you
One of the things that makes ending this type of relationship (and keeping it ended) so difficult is that sometimes the person *is* capable of that deep relating and we've felt like we've connected with them before on that deep level and could be ourselves with them (that's why we care so much). The problem is the lack of consistency. The problem is that most of the time that isn't there at all. I refuse to repeat the cycle of inconsistent caregiving that I received as a child. I have to have some self-respect and some standards for myself. I say this now, perhaps this is my higher self talking, but oh man oh man it's so, so hard. Especially because I'm not the kind of person who connects with others easily or finds myself willing and able to be vulnerable with people a lot. So when I do have this kind of deep connection with someone (or at least I remember the memories of having had it in the past with this person), it feels scarce. This kind of relationship doesn't happen every day for me. In fact, I haven't gone on a date in over 7 years! So, unconsciously I feel this sense that I'm hurting myself by cutting ties because I'm replaying that's script from childhood in which I really was reliant on my caregiver as my sole source of deep emotional connection. I have to somehow find a way to convince myself that I don't *need* this particular person in order to have those feelings of connection again. This is so difficult because it's so hard to for me go out and create new relationships because I don't do vulnerability easily and I'm often pretty judgemental and unattracted to other people in an emotional sense. This is something I've obviously gotta work on, but going back to the old and familiar actively prevents me from working on cultivating this new self who is better at being vulnerable, open, courageous, confident etc. Wish me luck on creating new and healthier friendships and relationships!! I am at a transitional stage in my life and moving forward feels so, so hard right now.
I feel this. I'm in the same spot.
How are you? Did you move forward to better...
You're not alone, I relate so much to what you've described here. Sometimes it feels like that imprint we grew up within means we will never find a relationship that defies the pattern. And taking that step into the void by letting go of the one we're in, beyond terrifying by a certain age. I hope you are doing OK. Just know we're going through this with you.
I completely relate to what you wrote, thank you for sharing. I’m on the same journey myself. I have noticed that if I believe that it’s *really hard* for me to find people I want to open up to, then that will be true. But if I believe that it has been hard so far because I’ve been closed off to myself more than I realize, the more I discover and accept parts of myself, the more common and fluid it will be for me to find those others to connect with, then that will be true.
exactly! you think you should be able to have just a normal dinner with this person but the feeling of being a "robot person" makes me furious after a while and I cant help myself from lashing out:( Love your videos, tanks for making them!
I've just realized I've only ever been in relationships with narcs or avoidants or both, starting with my father onwards. Thank you Alan for your incredible insight and thoughtful description of the betrayal we have been willingly putting ourselves through.
Amal Dandashi My heart goes out to you
Me too.
Exactly the same for me here.
14:08 The feeling when we find deep emotional connection with someone and feel accepted just being ourselves.
16:37 Back to situation with person who says "no" to connection. They interact casually, every-day normal.
18:33 COPING MECHANISM
19:11 Why it DOESN'T WORK!
22:45 If in the "fake" interaction you point it out (present moment pain, and failed history)
30:00 why we cant just "accept it" and be peaceful? What do we do about it? The other person has to commit and consistently progress in order for it to improve.
31:48 If that's not happening, Create a boundary and say to self "there is no relationship here"
33:25 Why we dont do that, and stay stuck in self betrayal.
41:12 conclusion : "Nobody Wins Here" , focus on compassion. Keep looking for that connection with others.
Thank you!
Love this ! Nothing is wrong with wanting an emotionally close relationship, especially when it’s your romantic partner, who you really can choose (vs family) !
thank you again for yet another brilliant video. I swear you touch the parts other youtubers seem to be oblivious of. This IS the stuff of healing. There's NO POINT spending all day learning about what is wrong with narcs bpds etc etc... we need to get real with ourselves and refuse to continue to lie to ourselves and others. My whole marriage was like that. Most people I know who are in so called relationships are like that. there's nothing lonelier than pretending to be with someone who is not even in the same library let alone on the same page.
please keep doing these videos.
Totally agree. It's easy to fall down that hole of watching videos of narcs etc. Although it may give us a deeper understanding of exs, does it give us a deeper understanding of ourselves? No. We're not actually moving forward, growing or getting stronger. Until I stumbled across Alan's videos that is :)
True
Not in the same library!!!!!!...lmao...that's brilliant!!!!
Yes!! Damn. On point, everything you said.
You have no idea how valuable this validation is. I am amazed how you can formulate in this simple and kind way the feelings I have and had all my life in most of my connections. And I still keep up the poker face trying not to make them uncomfortable! This really is masochism. I still don't know why I'm participating.
Thanks for seeing value in this content. Glad it delivers validation. I can understand and empathize this is a challenging pattern. Thanks for commenting.
OMG!!! This video just saved my life Alan...I thought I was going crazy till I heard you speak of something so incredibly familiar!!...everything you explained just described years of frustration...that resulted in the most painful experience of my life I did this for almost 15 years and the last two I almost destroyed myself in the process!!! I ended up recently walking out of that 15 year marriage for this very reason after years of colluding with being ignored and this self betrayal I can now safely say it was a miracle I managed to leave at all, as by the end of it I was so broken and with so little self worth that I was not even able to walk out! But walk out I did, and I cannot thank you enough for truly helping me to acknowledge myself fully. I have been in such grief, and regret I thought I had made a mistake the attachment trauma was ingrained I kept justifying my ex-husband as in the end he made me seem like the 'bad guy' the unreasonable and demanding wife and that he was such a good guy. Thank you I am forever grateful I found your sharing/training. I will never be the same again. Bless you!
Elohisa Ro'eH I am going thru something similar - i wasnt married but we lived together. I felt so guilty when I left him. Did you feel guilty and bad when you decided to leave? I left while still being in love with him and it hurts so much right now, so much discomfort at the moment... but deep inside I know that asking for reciprocitation was something very normal and human to ask for. We had a perfect life on paper... but inside it felt empty.. i was just going thru the motions... but all superficial, no deep emotional connection. I ended up feeling so ignored and left out, i ended up having panic attacks which was my body’s way of telling me: get out of here.
@@verhan7570 I hope you are on the way to recovery. Yes, guilt feels familiar. But it will get better, eventually.
Good luck!
I had this exact same experience but things got worse for me after I left and I don’t understand why. I think leaving was the right choice but happiness has not automatically followed, even though years have gone by.
well said, you just said it for me. just summed up my 27 years of marriage too. thanks.
Your story Is my story in so many ways....I haven t gotten away yet, tho'... wishing healing to us all....It just shouldn't t be this hard.
I’ve never heard someone describe the pain I feel in some of my darkest, most ontologically isolating moments so clearly. The fact that you can describe it so precisely makes it more bearable in a sense. I repeatedly find myself in these rock-hardplace relationships and am starting to question the value of trying to “go there” with anyone because frankly the people who disengage from feelings as a protective measure seem to live more productive and peaceful lives. What is the value and purpose of being the aware or emotionally vulnerable party? Where is the end reward for that capability or practice if all relationships are constant boundary negotiations between separate, subjective consciousness? Many times I wish I did not have this emotional or consciousness “gear”. The work and wisdom you are sharing is lifesaving Alan; thank you.
I feel u on this.... seems the norm is to be emotionally disengaged
There are people who are like you = they work in professions or have hobbies that include giving!
I felt that, too, that his description gave a bearable witness to what before was just a blur of emotional pain and discomfort. I had never before heard someone describe the agony that comes from enduring an insufferable person at my own expense.
I have betrayed myself over and over again in relationships. Thank you for bringing these insights into our consciousness. The realization of how the body participates in our nervous system is new to me and makes so much sense. Your work is brilliant and I wish I knew about you before!
this has me in tears. literally crying out loud and talking to you (without you hearing me). thank you so much for talking about this subject. I'm so hurt and I now have some answers. thank you.
It's like having a relationship with a robot/or robots
Fa real
My ex actually once unironically said, "Why can't we be robots?" and I could tell that it was a real, genuine question...it completely broke my heart and confused me...I shed a few tears for his state and for my loneliness when he said it.....💔
Avoidant attachment style & possibly an Enneagram 5.
So true or zombie 🧟♀️
And for us “robots” It’s like being in a relationship with a needy child that constantly whines and tugs at your shirt while you’re trying to make dinner or clean or work etc. That throws a tantrum when you tell them you’re busy, not right now. 😓
This is the first time I've ever heard this dynamic so well understood from the perspective of the person in the relationship where they're being told, "Yes, we can be related/ married, but I don't want to know you nor be known. I don't want to be friends. I don't really like you. Okay, let's go get some dinner." I felt exactly like I was betraying myself to go through the motions while knowing the other person only wanted shallow relationship. Thanks for breaking it down and explaining the double-bind!
Omg you just described my marriage. His entire extended family are shallow (only small talk never anything deep or intellectual to discuss sooooo weird to me!) . I realize now he is super shallow and that's all I het superficial, but nothing REAL.
Preach !!!! I thought I was being needy and intrusive, i kept betraying and rejecting myself to fit and be less needy. But it is absolutely normal (!!!!) and okay to want emotional connection, how could we be really relating without it ??! Thank you as always Alan ❤️🤗
I am amazed at the depth of your understanding in this matter. I’ve been with my husband for 40. It’s been awful. I knew something was wrong from the beginning but did not have a name for it. And then dismissed when trying to share my feelings. Thank you sooooo much!!!!!
Thank you for sharing that my work was helpful and thank you for valuing my effort. It took me years of study and healing process to uncover these difficult dynamics and share them with others.
If this video is helpful, then you may also like the course, The Four Attachment Distress Responses. Take the quiz to learn more: www.alanrobarge.com/adrquiz
I am crying right now… My heart is open, you just validated everything in my heart, mind, nervous system etc… I am not crazy
This is exactly the kind of relationship that I am in. Yes very very painful, I feel like I die alittle more every day. Thank you for this video it is so helpful. I feel like I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. And now I know this relationship is really all in vain and I only have one choice to make on where I'm going from here. THANK YOU again
Hi June. How are things these days?
How did you get through it how long was you together
Oh Lord, crushing grief is right. The absence of true emotional connection, having your needs met, and having to compromise your deepest self will drain you. Mentally, physically and spiritually. I’m still trying to find the healthy, happy shine that was “me” 25 years ago.
This is so valuable. The emotionally unavailable person might defend their distance by saying it's part of their culture to be 'independent'
You can be independent and still connect. Not necessarily enmesh and loose that independance.
My partner just literally told me that he doesn’t want to change his absolute perfectionism, as if his errors are his “culture”
The times I've experienced the feelings you describe with wanting a full relationship, I've felt there must be something wrong with me. I thought perhaps I was "too needy". Thank you for explaining this so clearly. I do have the right to expect more.
oh my God! you could be talking directly to me for all 44 minutes! wow...extreme validation and clarity with how you describe all of this. thank you, thank you.
Nicolq Roberts I listened to all this again thinking I must have just needed it to be so clear and validating but it really is,,, and I found myself even the second time nodding in strong agreement to everything.
Nicolq Roberts yes this is so very painful and it's so hard to put words to, so it is wonderful to find those words.. to hear them spoken out loud and be somewhat understood.
Same exact feeling right now!!!
Oh. my. goodness. This video feels like you are speaking directly to me. I grew up in a home where emotional crumbs were about all that was handed out by my parents, grandparents (but 1) and brothers. Recently, I am conscious of the same pattern being repeated in my long-term current relationship and the family I married into. Same dynamic with emotional crumbs. I married into this
family because it is what I KNEW (subconsciously recognized) growing up in my FOO. And I do realize now also that it is up to me what amount of emotional crumbs or chunks or slices or halfsies or wholes I want. Thank you *so much* for this video!
Great awareness. Many of us can relate with finding ourselves repeating these dynamics. Glad this video spoke to you. Thanks for valuing my effort.
If you connect with this video then you may also like taking part in our conversations in the Community Program, Improve Your Relationships. You're invited to join us. www.alanrobarge.com/community
this was me for 10 years!!! I have been participating willingly in this for 10 years! oh my goodness!!! confusing. cyclic. debilitating. angst producing. unfulfilling. I participated for 10years my mind is really blown right now
This is why, I can finally name what I feel "Self betrayal. Sadly I continue to do it. I knew that he wouldn't care and I still tried sending him this video. Hoping and wishing he would see it.
I hear you. Glad this resonates for you. Thank you valuing my effort to capture these difficult dynamics.
If you like this video then you may also be interested in the course, The Four Attachment Distress Responses. Learn more by taking the quiz, www.alanrobarge.com/adrquiz
I'm now heading to my counselor to share. I have NEVER heard what I feel described and validated. Thank you so much!
I didn't understand why my pain was so intense after reconnecting with an ex who I reached out to after 17 years. He did the fade out to ghost before I could get any connection and I couldn't understand why all these emotions were hurting me so deeply. Well now I know and HOLY CRAP I feel so much better! I know now where I can start healing from and how I can be ok with giving myself closure that I was hoping to get from him. THANK YOU ALAN! Your videos have helped me be able to live without the torment and there just isn't any Hallmark cards out there that could possibly say how I feel about your help. Grateful and profoundly "church".
Thank you so much ..
Oh my God it’s the first time in my life to feel understood. you helped me to figure out why I constantly feel that huge amount of pain
I just love this entire talk....and at 24:40 you finally hit the nail on the head! So satisfying to hear someone else say it!
I have always had this type of relationship with my sister...for as long as I can remember...and I finally stopped "pretending" a few years ago...and actually "disclosed" this fully to her last year....namely, that what's wrong between us has ALWAYS been wrong...and regardless of the truly endless dysfunctional "discussion" we've had about it that has gone literally nowhere in the 50+ years we've known each other....nothing has changed. I suppose one could say I am the one who no longer has any intention of attempting to engage with her on an emotional level...but the truth is, this has never even been a possibility with her in the first place. All I did was first recognize that fact...which took me a very long time because she would never admit to it openly...and then it hit me that coming right out and telling her "I can't do this anymore. I don't see any point in pretending, and frankly it makes me feel ill doing so"...might actually be the only way to save myself from the self-betrayal, so I did so.
What's interesting to me is that it's almost as if she never heard me say it. She still seems to be pretending...and doesn't seem to have a problem with it. I keep my distance most of the time, but because she is my sister and we have aging parents, we do occasionally have to interact. It's as if she's telling herself something like "I'm going to be the bigger person, and act like she never said that to me"... I think she's hoping she can just erase the fact...and that maybe I'll just go back to pretending...but I'm about half an inch away of gently reminding her as we begin making plans to care for our aging mother. I feel the fact needs to be right out there in the open and taken into consideration as we move forward.
You are not alone with the situation with a sister. I actually totally broke off my relationship with mine due to the pain it all caused me. Her indifference towards me was no longer tolerable. I just decided to end it. So I know your pain...you're not alone.
Oh my God! Someone FINALLY GETS IT!!!
Thank you for the profound gift of putting this miserable, isolating experience to words. I've never, never, ever heard it put so concisely and clearly. Amazing. Thank you.
I never heard anyone explain this so precisely! This video is 6 years old but I really thank you for these words!!
This is the most amazing video. Just got out of the most emotionally, mentally, and physically discouraging relationship I’ve ever had. And I had the same rational “adjust your need adjust your needs, it’s fine” instead of accepting how unhappy I was and moving on
Wooowww. Everything you have said resonates deeply with me. And you have articulated these issues so well. Many times, a person in this situation is told they are being too sensitive or is made to feel like their requests are unreasonable. I'm so glad I found your channel. It is going to be so important in my healing journey. Thank you so much for your expertise.
Thanks for the feedback valuing the effort I put into offering explanation. You have great insight. It is so important to talk about these double-binds. Glad this content is helpful for you.
If you haven't already heard about it, you may be interested in the Community Program, Improve Your Relationships www.alanrobarge.com/community This is the type of content we explore the community. I welcome you joining us as a member.
He's literally the best relationship therapist on CZcams , he has saved countless people hundreds of dollars in therapist fee . A gem .
That's a lovely testimonial. Thank you. I am glad you value my work. Please consider a donation via CZcams link to support future work.
My husband told me for years that “He can’t be nobody but him and that he could not meet my needs!” I had a problem with this. I apologized to him for not accepting what he was telling me. Now I accept it and now I choose to allow him to be himself but without me.
Alan describes the pain of being in and trying to connect with someone who is unable or unwilling to emotionally relate...very well described!!
I feel you in every video! Wow! “My nervous system cannot accept this...” wow!!! I can only do authenticity....
This is lovely
The bit that stands out is when you said even when we've tried to understand one situation it happens again the very next day or even later on same day
Thanks for reflecting. Glad this resonates.
My marriage was just an extension of my terrible childhood. I left both. Now at 50 its all an opposite. Thank God.
This among the best videos, most well- explained videos I've ever seen. Such a complicated subject. Alan Robarge you're professional knowledge and empathic delivery is humbling. Thank you for helping to heal the emotional pain of so many. Glad you're in this world 😊!
A brilliant forensic analysis of the failure of relationships. Thank you Alan. Youre a breath of fresh air and a gift to the world!
Allan is spot on.. stop maintaining relationships with others at our own expense and denying our own need.
This is so well said. The body truly keeps the score. What an affirmation to listen to one’s gut. It truly is the primal compass toward that which feeds our authentic self 💜
This video is like first aid for my brain! I recently realized I've been hurting myself by trying to reconnect to a very close friend who stopped talking to me over a year ago, and is now stonewalling after almost a decade of being in a close friendship. I'm treated as if I'm an acquaintance after years of being an integral part of each other's life. So very, very painful. You explain clearly what has been happening in my own friendship. By trying my best to reconnect, and after many a "it's okay" conversation that feels inauthentic, I realize I have been colluding in breaking my own heart. Sometimes people need to move on with their lives, and that really is okay. I wish everyone I love the best even if their path leads them away from me. But what hurts so much is when someone pretends everything is fine and normal when I know it isn't. It's like they've moved the goal posts mid-game, and I don't understand the rules anymore. And I can see that I've been pretending, too, in order to keep whatever remnants I have left of this friendship. It's eye-opening. Anyway, I want to thank you Alan, for helping those of us who deal with attachment problems to feel a little less alone in these confusing, painful situations.
No words to thank you for this. Coming back to this video four years later I saw it for the first time. Now I am ready to address this painful issue.
Glad to hear this content is inspiring for you to address this painful issue. Thank you for your feedback.
Since you like this content, and you may already be aware of it, you may also like the course, The Four Attachment Distress Responses. Take the quiz to learn more www.alanrobarge.com/adrquiz
Walked away. Working on me
20:57 Why we cant just "accept it"
is so meaningful to me because as someone who has been emotionally very open since a child, it was always treated as something so burdensome and odious that it could not be tolerated. And to hear that it's normal, natural, something I just was always good at and even "the best part of humanity" has got me crying and I cant stop.
28:15 which you touched on here. Lol
This is scary and deeply human, it made me feel both hopeless and somehow validated in my own self. Thank you. I need to think about this. MR
,,, this happened with my husband who’s passed away and is now happening with men I’m meeting.
I’m 62 ! ! !
Never ! ever did I expect to have this strange, weird phenomenon spelled out so succinctly~~~ just had this same sit last week, omg 🤦♀️
Alan Robarge please keep doing what you’re doing, I think you’re a genius.
This is probably one of the best therapy I have heard, and I had a great therapist!!! Thanks so much for shedding so much light on this subject, I can't tell you how many times I have sat through dinners with family and friends and couldn't understand why I felt so out of place. Thank you.
What an extraordinary man you are. It’s so painful when you feel excluded and outside, even when you’re with someone. You explain it perfectly
Thank you. So very thankful for this. I am in this friendship right now, and I have not been able to put my finger on WHY I keep getting triggered (I mean besides the "other's" behavior), why I couldn't just "chill out and go with the flow". You have given my inner child the words. So grateful.
Thank you for explaining emotional resonance or church. I have been looking for this kind of information for decades. This one video has changed my life, it is like experiencing the colour green for the first time in 50 years. I now have some tools or vocabulary to become more church literate and skilled. I now have a better understanding of the concept of friendship. There are strangers, friends, acquaints, and people who are scared to, don't know about the concept of connecting or just wish you gone (family members fall within one of the categories).
Finally, clarity regarding my entire life.
The truth sets us free. Thank you.
Alan, I want to give you 10 ❤️s right now. Thank you so, so much for taking the time to explain this in detail. I have been struggling with this for many years without understanding why it happens or why I can't just 'get over' my needs and resolve my unhappy feelings. It's validating to find out that it is not just mental, it is physical. Thank you for sharing your self, your time and your knowledge.
After years and years of being shamed for emotional openness, and feeling that I must earn the right to be heard, I just want to give you a huge thank you! It’s so freeing to feel like being emotionally open is something that can be valued instead of scorned or resented. Thank you 🙏🏻
Shit! I'm currently on the break up process and the dinner example is great. That constant distance is pure torture. At one point you can't take it anymore. especially when the conversation of why don' t we have bigger projects starts taking over...
5 years together
watched you 5 part video on insecure attachment...ohh boy...
So true...when you say: this can't be a healthy emotional exchange! it' s a huge sign... the worst part is that it happens at the beginning!
Boom! Thanks for the language for this weird disconnect. Alan thank god for you my nervous system was always right. I feel like this is how my mom purposefully gaslights me
J Cat I hear that so deeply
Woah Alan Robarge! This is such subtle and yet deep and real human experience you describe here, how that emotional disconnect is something that we can feel in our core and how it makes us uneasy, anxious and sad when it's been denied to us.
I have recently discovered your channel as I struggle in a new romantic relationship with an avoidant partner, probably with bpd, and I happened to feel this weird disconnect experience at the restaurant for dinner! This absence of emotional connection in the moment, his aloofness made me feel a vague but profound distress of being alone in front of someone I deeply wanted to share with. I brought it out, he first denied he ignored me, rationalized, said he didn't have to talk all the time. Tears came into my eyes, I expressed what I had been feeling and he finally opened up and shared his fears about our relationship. We finally had a conversation on important things for both of us, sharing our fears. This was quite an emotional and painful moment for me, but when we left the restaurant, we became closer in a shared vulnerable moment. What is frustrating is that I only get to see him, ie his vulnerable self, when i myself am in a panic mode and very emotional, and it is tiresome for both probably. He tends to pull away most of the time and keeps a shallow texting connection which for a person who enjoys Church like me, feels like an insult! I am learning a lot from your insights, trying to honor my needs. Thank you so much for your help, you are creating a lot of value here and helping greatly many people!
Greetings from France
This is our dance! Exhausting and sad.
Did your relationship work out? Sometimes it's hard to accept when they're "just not that into us", but should we really be struggling at the beginning of a relationship? No.
Hi Sarah. Did your relationship work out? I can relate strongly with your experience of your partner only opening up when you were at your absolute wits end. I experienced the same.
When things reached crisis point and I was walking away the first few times then I got some engagement finally. Then as time went on even crisis points could not provide an opportunity for engagement and repair. it was so unsustainable I had to walk away.
This is THE BEST freaking video I have EVER watched on youtube. I'm serious. This is so rich with truth, I don't have many words to say other than, Alan, I would be honored to someday have church with you. Thank you so much for being you. Incredible!
This describes my 20 year relationship. And I've read recently how we end up giving up and staying. Studies show how we shut down after continued pain. My partner said asking for emotional connection is NOT what men can do. It's just women who want that.
Annie O truth
!!! I want that
What a joke!
I was blindsided by this recently dating someone because I hadn’t had this issue with my ex. It was painfully confusing and humiliating.
Not true. I'm a man and I'm the one seeking emotional connection.
OMG, this is ME! I’ve been dating an avoidant for many years, and even though we love each other very much - THIS is what has been missing! Can really resonate with the physical pain.
I feel as if you have been peaking into my life. Thank you so much. I’ve been married for 47 yrs and I’ve never been able to put my finger on why I’ve been so unhappy. This is why. More, tell me more.
You have such a great way of fleshing out subtle but important dynamics. Excellent, thank you!
Thank your Sir. I have a reality of feeling isolated. very painful, with no clue at all why. this gives me clarity. 🙂 great job
being ignored andself betrayal might contribute to to hoplesness, because you just can´t connect. my sourounding of inavailibility
Amazing break down of this subtle issue! Thank you for this. You are the Grand Master of Relationship Rap-every video is a master class in the reality of relationship and attachment trauma disfunction that some of us have been living with for DECADES! Thank you for being the TRUTH TELLER that you are. People concerned with issues like opioid and other addictions need to look to these issues for the underlying root cause. Thank you for what you are doing!
I'm convinced it's the root of most addictions.
I just spent four years in a relationship that utterly ignored and discounted my needs. The confusing thing was that it felt like church. I thought we had that even though he clearly said he didn’t want “a life partner.” It just got worse. Once a year like clockwork I would explode and we’d have a huge fight about his emotional unavailability. We finally called it off three weeks ago. I’m so sad. So mad at myself. I’m learning all about codependency this week and al the vocabulary that goes with. So painful. This video was really amazing. It’s everything I’ve been thinking but could never put into words. It’s exactly right. It’s too late to tell my ex this, but in some way it makes me feel better. I’m not crazy or too demanding for wanting to be in a relationship that allowed me to relax. I rarely got that. And I was right to speak up.
Alison, I am sorry for the loss of your relationship. I am also glad this video helped clear up some things for you.Powerful emotions can sometimes feel overwhelming. The reason I created the membership community because many of us have stories like yours. We see the pattern over time. We keep doing the same thing. We see the suffering. We have to choose to change the pattern. We need a plan of self-directed healing. This is what we talk about in the membership community. You are invited to join us. Here is the info: www.alanrobarge.com/community
Thanks Alan. I’ve been looking at it and thinking about it for sure.
What an amazing explanation of my entire life experience with my family members. This hit the BULLSEYE of my confusion and suffering for as far back as I can recall. Thank you Alan Robarge.
This is 1000% exactly my experience in my marriage. I found this video after I left the marriage, but this explains EVERYTHING….so so so grateful for the words and clarity, you nailed my experience with an exactness that completely blew my mind! Bravo sir, you are amazing!
THANK YOU SO MUCH for this deeply insightful video. You nailed the subject in a way that is absolutely accurate and clear!! I have never heard words to describe the disappointing reality of being in pseudo-relationship and it makes such sense now. Thank you again :))))))
I fell for someone that was emotionally unavailable and went through this for years and was made to feel like I was needy for wanting just simple answers to plausible questions. Then I resorted to laying out the questions for a simple yes or no which I never got bcs she was so dismissive and I would get pushed away over and over and constantly walked out on because talking was too much pressure for her.
This just happened to me. Mine drinks severely, actually a Bottle of Champagne per day. Almost 7-8 per week.
They are not happy with who they are, and handling conflict in such a poor manner is such a curse to them and others.
I was married for 27 years, my husband never wanted sex with me. I broached the subject many different times. He would never go deeper in him self let alone with me. As I divorced I found out he was addicted to porn and chronic masterbation. I tried to get a divorce but had no support from my family, they were all on his side. It really destroyed me tho and now I'm trying to recover. If I had found support I may not have betrayed my self by staying with such a cold man... Blaaa. I'm Workin on me now tho...
Wow!! Well done!!
I currently am having the same problem. Leaving is a scary thing. I Love him . But he loves his Porn more . 5 months now .
@Barbara Fournier I'm sorry you know the horrible rejection too. I've loved @faltallon7721
the entire year he's left me stupidly kept a small bit of hope open that my Ex might hit that painful rock bottom motivating him out of the intimacy anorexia so we can have that emotional connection but he just chose more porn and new easier women. Betrayal Trauma Recovery helps answer the horrible "Why!?!" And start on better boundaries.
Same story here but in a relationship for 42 years.
Wow this is a big one this is very deep!!!!
you tolerated that's a very long-suffering . As a woman this would affect self esteem....look how he had the issue all along it was nothing to do with you but sometimes we internalize
This comment has got me so amazed this proves that we should never ever ever internalise because when you see what the other person is doing behind closed doors you will realise you're not the problem. It's all him. You could have gone through the same thing with another woman you just just the one who he met at that time and was kind enough to tolerate him
Thank you Alan. 100% true. I hear you speaking here about the essence of the unresolved or disorganised (or, how I like to call it, disorganising) attachment. The problem with finding a solution to this faulty relationship dynamic is that it may send us in such states of hyperarousal and anxiety that are just incompatible with clear thinking and making good decisions. A mind confronted with such turmoil cannot make solid decisions. I am still looking for a solution that would work for my particular situation with a family member, but I'm positive that cutting the relationship off is not the best idea. It's not ideal but I do have to do this thinking singlehandedly because the other person I know for sure she won't. Thank you again for speaking about the immense anxiety that comes with such a conflict between one's truth and the inertia of the relationship. This alone has lowered my anxiety. Love your Church analogy. 🙏❤
That video was the one nugget of wisdom and understanding to an underlying piece of my five year relationship that I couldn’t quite make sense of. The deep feeling of discord I couldn’t ever define other than knowing something has never been right and as a result I stayed and stayed because I couldn’t understand why I was so attached. I was denying myself and my needs to avoid loss but as you said either way I was feeling pain and loss. I now know what to do for my self preservation. You are amazing, thank you thank you
Facing Reality is Accepting the Truth... TRUTH HURTS💔
Alan! You as well as your followers have become my source of emotional connection during these times where I feel as if I'm being swallowed into a black hole of pain and despair. There is no one in real life (but except that I have a great therapist who has been trying to help me see these dynamics) who I can talk to and relate to around this subject matter, which consumes me emotionally, mentally, and physically. Much better than fighting with my girlfriend! I feel like my mind is WARPED from the emotional drama I live through DAILY, as I am anxious with an avoidant (sometimes not sure as she can get very clingy herself) partner. But listening to you speak about it is really all I have. At least I can do that much for myself. And you are helping me sort through a lot of stuff here. Maybe others know what it's like...you're not with a mean, abusive person. And maybe they're not really doing anything "wrong". But you constantly feel that they are not connecting with you even if there's no real evidence of that. You just feel it! And of course we are sooooo good at denying our feelings, thinking we're crazy, etc. We begin to think we must be doing something wrong! It's our fault! If only we were better or perfectly healed, everything would be fine. But it's not true. I like the term you used in another video, "subtle nuances"! That's exactly what it is. And it is LITERALLY like Chinese water torture to someone with attachment trauma. It's just not a fit. "Two ships passing in the night"...YES! Accepting this and making better choices for ourselves is the answer. I guess?
Complicated subject, very well articulated. I went through this with my ex-wife. It was incredibly impossible and maddening. I wish I had the insight to walk out instead of believing I could get her to listen to my fears. It lead to hiding my feelings and incredible resentment.
Chris, working with difficult emotions is something we explore in-depth in the membership community, Improve Your Relationships. It is part of a larger process of healing from attachment trauma. How not to become cynical about grief, love, and relationships is a good goal to begin the journey. If a deeper conversation is something you are interested in exploring around this topic, you are invited to join us. www.alanrobarge.com/community
WOW Alan...…..I have found Church right here. This has been the missing link in my healing, this double bind, the looping, my emotional connection needs have never been met in my intimate relationships, always connecting with men who cannot or refuse to connect with me, all the while I have disregarded my own needs just to keep being in relationship. This video has allowed me to connect the dots. Thank you so much