@@mattvalcarc bounty is so niche and limited, its only good against a few heroes. he offers next to nothing. no control, no heal, no stun, no teamfight, no nothing. just vision. not to mention its one of the worst laners in the game
@@andreic8786 Tbh vision makes bounty a decent support. what makes bounty really useless is heroes like weaver that does everything bounty does but better. weaver has vision with bugs. really good laner and a safe with aghs. also clears waves unless a bounty which provides jack for shoving waves
Could also be called how to play against PL in the offlane :D It's nice that you show these flawless games eventhough it might end up differently but everyone should be on the same page to what the plan is.
a guardian player just learned something new! - Timing of the siege creeps to pressure and push - The mechanics of range dmg to the melee creeps - Use more stats and a bit less on regen. - Make the carry have a harder game by pressuring after destroying tier 1. I believe that's all...
Cool advice, but would also be really helpful if you make a guide on how to play a losing offlane. This guide looks simple since every game had a winning offlane, but what if you keep getting zoned out of offlane like what's happening to the PL?
I remember other pro that I follow said that "it's the little things you do, that wins a dota game". So i tried my best to be as efficient as I can. Then here I see how many little things you do.... damn. But this is amazing, you explaining everything down to the detail in laning phase. Thanks man, you're amazing!!!
I love when guys with this particular accent tell me about dota. I played dota1 with some European fellers and they talked exactly the same, you get a nostalgia subscribe from me.
Question for Khezu or Gamerzclass, it would be interesting to see a video on how to play these heroes from behind? In the first two games, DK and SK are having complete free farm and dominating the lane , taking tower at min 6 and forcing carry to jungle. But what about scenarious when you face a really hard lane and are struggling, that would be interesting :)
Eveything he said here is offlane fundamentals, this applies to any good offlane hero u play as long as u follow this fundamentals I had a relatively good mechanical skills but got no fundamentals before, I was stuck in anceint for long time. Until I learned the offlane fundamentals and it got me to immortal right away. Eveything he said here is so onpoint. Well Done Khezu!
i am not even an offlane player but i saw the video and wanted to have a short look into it...I ended up watching the whole video and wanting to play offlane xD thanks for the good guide
I’m rubbish at dota but this explains why I have had some very easy games. Didn’t realise how crippling it was to keep someone stuck under their L2. Thank you making us bottom feeders better 👌
Very thanks for all the explanations, gonna try them Is there also Amy guide for when you're losing? Like a match you can't even farm properly the waves because enemy team has a lot of vantage?
All 3 games are vs PL, who isn't exactly known for having a strong laning phase. Carries with strong lane presence like Jugg (spin) or Slark (essence shift) can easily punish playing aggressive like this. Same if they have a stronger supp like Grim, WD (Maeldict makes it impossible to trade), etc.
Great video for sure thanks Khezu! However, it was 3x the same gameplay. I would be curious to know what would make you go bottom or take a different approach. I personally think a lot about killthreat especially from the enemy mid to decide whether or not i can play in their jungle agressively. Also if the enemy has a hard pusher like chen, lets say im axe, and we have a hard farming carry like am, i will consider defing bottom instead of pressuring top. Question: Say the enemy team has a hard farmer which i can pressure like PL, but we also have a hard farming carry. Is it better to put pressure or def tier ones?
my problem is im lowranked(only random) and the other dudes don´t know how dota works^^ but looks simple and i try some tricks from you...thx for video!
I miss pre 7.20 when cs under the tower was hard. It's good playing as aoe nuke offlaner like underlord, dark seer, etc. You dont need to worry about enemy carry cs and you can do something else like pulling or stacking for later. I miss the ol' offlane days
What do you do, when the enemy team just comes and ganks up on you? I mean after T1 youre pretty far into enemy territory, and noone can come and help you with tps.
Forcing enemy reactions is very normal and the way the game should be played, if your team knows what they are doing they'll see everyone showing up in a lane and push another, or best case scenario they get a tower. Objectives matter more than kills, unless it's late game where death timers are very long and the enemy can just destroy your base very quickly. Ideally you don't want to die, but if your death lead to absolutely nothing for the enemy team and your team took advantage of the information of everyone rotating to a single lane, then that death is worth it.
@@CharroArgentino thanks! Never thought about trading my own life for space/objectives. Always took my own survival as top priority, but I guess thats just playing it too Safe
@@legitqs4098 yes just keep in mind that if you can survive like charro said its like a cherry on top because not only did they all rotate to kill you creating space for your team, but if they dont even get the kill then it really hurts them.
Thanks a lot. Great video. Would you so the same thing as carry in the safe lane? Or when you destroy tower you go to farm and not focus on pressure that much
@@nuwanda92 well first that you want to harass the Carry around the last hits to make it super hard for him vs just harassing him so he can't walk up and hit the creeps. And then there was the idea of pushing the lane in to his tier 2 which makes it even harder to farm since it does so much dmg. I knew about the concept of min 5 being important cuz of catapults and night time and that you can make a double wave by killing the ranged creep, but I didn't think about trying to time your level 6 around the 5 min mark (esp if your ult pushes towers) to combine with a catapult and double wave. There were a few other things here and there but I forget so I'm gonna watch the video again before I play lol
I've been told the right thing to do is to take the safelane tower and then swap lanes with your carry, so they get the 'safe' lane without the tower to farm waves and the jungle. Is that not good anymore and it's better for the Offlaner to stay in that lane?
this was supper helpfull. thank you Khezu and thank you GamerzClass. Also it would be really nice if you can change the prespective and explain what these 3 phantom lancers should have done. Also WTF why are they all phantom lancer? xd . it's a weak laner. anyways xd
Most annoying thing is this is exactly what I do. As an offlane I am official "cannon fodder". I know that. So I need to harass without dying. Then the supp on my lane is "JUST TOWER HUG" AND IS 100% USELESS.
I've been in a lot of situation in 9:51 where my teammates would want to walk up to hit the mid tower. If I dont follow them, they will die mid and flame me. If I follow them and hit mid, we may lose the fight when they respawn coz we're out of spells. Anyone else experienced this?
yes. you need that carry mentality. if your team insists on suiciding mid, just go jungle and farm or split push, maybe you'll be able to carry solo later in the game. if not, the game is doomed anyway, having a trash team
Ignore them, that's all you can do, objectives shouldn't be forced, they come naturally after pushing waves. If early game you can't break a tower fast enough before the enemy respawns just tp somewhere else and take that time to shove a different lane.
@@KheZu thanks been following the competitive scene on and off since Stay green HoN days :D I remember moonmeander, tralfamadore and bkid having a hard time with you in the tournaments. especially your wild soul. The Us region is tough I want to see all the top teams in stockholm Quincy Crew TSM, Evil Geniuses . Jerax is my fellow countryman
khezulol. No team pro team will take serious khezu again after luring enemy team to the triangle where his carry medusa is farming ancient stacks. When he could have instead die and not rat on his carry. Agent K LOL
Damn what the heck is this? So ive been playing wrong all the time going auto pilot with my brain not thinking 10 steps ahead of the enemy This game is terribly complicated even with 3,000 hours under my belt
The problem about this type of videos is that the other guy (sky) knows what he's doing. Clearly making it easier for dk. Despite having undying on enemy. In Low mmr that sky will play it safe and afraid
if you think like this you will never climb. Problem with your argument is that in the enemy team you will also play against 2 people who don't know what they are doing. In low MMR you play against undying who goes afk or goes to pull and doesnt abuse his levels & endless arguments can be done here. Start taking some responsibility for your games ffs.
Well when i offlane, this doesnt look like this. Lets say i go DK as well, my teammate the SKY afks undertower or tries to race me with lasthits despite me pinging them and he uses all of his spells on the ranged creep so i cant lasthit it. The enemy has a viper support with 19 clarities nonstop spamming all abilities on me + break, for some reason doesnt touch the alpha male sky support who only focuses the creeps. And then just as cherry on top of the cake we get casual earth spirit ganks and invo sunstrikes from the enemy team. And of at the end of the match all our lanes were lost despite half of the enemy team being bot all the time. And im the one reported for speaking up to the lows. Gived up on dota.
As a offlaner player the hardest part is your pudge pos 4 being useless as a rock
whenever i see pudge, techies, bounty hunter and other useless supports i just hit random hero and base the entire game off of luck
@@andreic8786 Bounty can be a good pos 4, just depends on the matchup and their skill level
ass offlaner meet passive pos 4/ jungle pos 4 really make me tilted
@@mattvalcarc bounty is so niche and limited, its only good against a few heroes. he offers next to nothing. no control, no heal, no stun, no teamfight, no nothing. just vision. not to mention its one of the worst laners in the game
@@andreic8786 Tbh vision makes bounty a decent support. what makes bounty really useless is heroes like weaver that does everything bounty does but better. weaver has vision with bugs. really good laner and a safe with aghs. also clears waves unless a bounty which provides jack for shoving waves
I really like these explanations of thought processes, the small things, are really interesting. Thanks a bunch for this!
Glad you enjoyed it!
What small things?
@@gonearethedays Your Donger.. Gottem
@@KVSingh222 what is donger? Gottem? I dont understand your English.
Could also be called how to play against PL in the offlane :D
It's nice that you show these flawless games eventhough it might end up differently but everyone should be on the same page to what the plan is.
I'm 6k carry player in NA. Thank you Khezu, I learned a lot! Helps to learn other roles/lane mechanics. Never knew how to effectively doublewave.
So your technically 1k mmr eu
And 100mmr in sea server
@@gonearethedays and a 10mmr in morning
time of sea
Khezu and "post-fight clarity" 24:13
Underrated comment
a guardian player just learned something new!
- Timing of the siege creeps to pressure and push
- The mechanics of range dmg to the melee creeps
- Use more stats and a bit less on regen.
- Make the carry have a harder game by pressuring after destroying tier 1.
I believe that's all...
Let us know how that works out for you!
This guy was really good at explaining his game plan.
Great video! But this only shows the winning games where you're ahead. What happens if you lose the lane and their carry starts snowballing?
Not much more to say than "Thanks" that was really helpful and to the point! Well done!
Cool advice, but would also be really helpful if you make a guide on how to play a losing offlane. This guide looks simple since every game had a winning offlane, but what if you keep getting zoned out of offlane like what's happening to the PL?
Then, you need rotation from your mid to get pickoffs to catchup
Such great examples with proper explanation, thanks a lot.
Glad it was helpful!
High quality class, great instruction on mentality with good examples.
Appreciate it, let me know if it helps you out!
I remember other pro that I follow said that "it's the little things you do, that wins a dota game". So i tried my best to be as efficient as I can. Then here I see how many little things you do.... damn. But this is amazing, you explaining everything down to the detail in laning phase. Thanks man, you're amazing!!!
I love when guys with this particular accent tell me about dota. I played dota1 with some European fellers and they talked exactly the same, you get a nostalgia subscribe from me.
i want to try as offlaner since i'm too tired of playing as support and this this the video that i need~ thank you~!
Good luck!
@@MetafyDota2 the DK~! It was really effective thank you so much~!
Really nice. Better than most "broken hero blabla stuff" i like this, Becouse you Can use this type of Vod in any bracket
Wow that's very helpful I just started playing and wow I used to to after I beat my lane and wonder how did they come back. It makes sense now.
Question for Khezu or Gamerzclass, it would be interesting to see a video on how to play these heroes from behind? In the first two games, DK and SK are having complete free farm and dominating the lane , taking tower at min 6 and forcing carry to jungle. But what about scenarious when you face a really hard lane and are struggling, that would be interesting :)
upcoming video is how to play patiently/how to play in a very hard matchup, it's with Pangolier
Gave a whole new perspective on how to offlane 👍
Eveything he said here is offlane fundamentals, this applies to any good offlane hero u play as long as u follow this fundamentals
I had a relatively good mechanical skills but got no fundamentals before, I was stuck in anceint for long time. Until I learned the offlane fundamentals and it got me to immortal right away.
Eveything he said here is so onpoint. Well Done Khezu!
HoN was my first moba and Khezu was such a legend back then. Glad to see the content
Beautiful explanation. Tysm
eeepic
Btw i know u from hon , i have been spectating you a lot(i dont call it mentoring cuz ppl might get comfused and thing i was teaching you)
super insightful, thank you
now this is a lesson video, i would pay for this
I’ve been an offlaner since 2013. Can you show us what to do if your lanes are losing as a pos 3/4?
i am not even an offlane player but i saw the video and wanted to have a short look into it...I ended up watching the whole video and wanting to play offlane xD thanks for the good guide
I’m rubbish at dota but this explains why I have had some very easy games. Didn’t realise how crippling it was to keep someone stuck under their L2. Thank you making us bottom feeders better 👌
I'm new to Dota and found this info very helpful. thank you. You've got a subscriber in me.
Very thanks for all the explanations, gonna try them
Is there also Amy guide for when you're losing? Like a match you can't even farm properly the waves because enemy team has a lot of vantage?
This is some top tier tips bro, thanks a lot
All 3 games are vs PL, who isn't exactly known for having a strong laning phase. Carries with strong lane presence like Jugg (spin) or Slark (essence shift) can easily punish playing aggressive like this. Same if they have a stronger supp like Grim, WD (Maeldict makes it impossible to trade), etc.
Very humble guy,thanks man,keep going
ty so much which i had this kind of video like 5 years ago
Great video for sure thanks Khezu! However, it was 3x the same gameplay. I would be curious to know what would make you go bottom or take a different approach.
I personally think a lot about killthreat especially from the enemy mid to decide whether or not i can play in their jungle agressively. Also if the enemy has a hard pusher like chen, lets say im axe, and we have a hard farming carry like am, i will consider defing bottom instead of pressuring top.
Question: Say the enemy team has a hard farmer which i can pressure like PL, but we also have a hard farming carry. Is it better to put pressure or def tier ones?
there'll be more clarity on this in the upcoming videos
my problem is im lowranked(only random) and the other dudes don´t know how dota works^^ but looks simple and i try some tricks from you...thx for video!
I miss pre 7.20 when cs under the tower was hard. It's good playing as aoe nuke offlaner like underlord, dark seer, etc. You dont need to worry about enemy carry cs and you can do something else like pulling or stacking for later. I miss the ol' offlane days
i mainly play pos 5 and this is great info from an offlane perspective. Would love to see a losing lane
Thank you so much!
"This is simple!"
* makes one hell of a play *
“No need to overplay or do something crazy.”
… But that’s like 99% of my game play mindset
yo khezu u are great safelaner man nice one ♥
Very nice Bro! Thx!
Hope you're doing well, thanks for the content!
Thanks, you too!
This was one of the best educational videos I’ve seen
Appreciate it!
What do you do, when the enemy team just comes and ganks up on you? I mean after T1 youre pretty far into enemy territory, and noone can come and help you with tps.
Forcing enemy reactions is very normal and the way the game should be played, if your team knows what they are doing they'll see everyone showing up in a lane and push another, or best case scenario they get a tower. Objectives matter more than kills, unless it's late game where death timers are very long and the enemy can just destroy your base very quickly. Ideally you don't want to die, but if your death lead to absolutely nothing for the enemy team and your team took advantage of the information of everyone rotating to a single lane, then that death is worth it.
@@CharroArgentino thanks! Never thought about trading my own life for space/objectives. Always took my own survival as top priority, but I guess thats just playing it too Safe
@@legitqs4098 yes just keep in mind that if you can survive like charro said its like a cherry on top because not only did they all rotate to kill you creating space for your team, but if they dont even get the kill then it really hurts them.
be mindful and keep paying Attention to the map, but you are right, i may make a followup video on that
Wards
Thanks a lot. Great video.
Would you so the same thing as carry in the safe lane? Or when you destroy tower you go to farm and not focus on pressure that much
So basically, pick a favorable matchup and snowball from there using Khezu's tips.
This completely changed my idea of how offlane can be played
hell yeah dude. what did u discover?
@@nuwanda92 well first that you want to harass the Carry around the last hits to make it super hard for him vs just harassing him so he can't walk up and hit the creeps. And then there was the idea of pushing the lane in to his tier 2 which makes it even harder to farm since it does so much dmg. I knew about the concept of min 5 being important cuz of catapults and night time and that you can make a double wave by killing the ranged creep, but I didn't think about trying to time your level 6 around the 5 min mark (esp if your ult pushes towers) to combine with a catapult and double wave. There were a few other things here and there but I forget so I'm gonna watch the video again before I play lol
Im a new player. The one thing that is importante if you are playing offlane is, "YOU HAVE TO BE TANKY"
Imagine being the PL dude. It will be so annoying af
gut gemacht maurice
thank you, this is a great content. Clear explanation
Thanks man!
I've been told the right thing to do is to take the safelane tower and then swap lanes with your carry, so they get the 'safe' lane without the tower to farm waves and the jungle. Is that not good anymore and it's better for the Offlaner to stay in that lane?
Very nice tutorial, i learn a lot 🥰
The best one. ❤️
this was supper helpfull. thank you Khezu and thank you GamerzClass. Also it would be really nice if you can change the prespective and explain what these 3 phantom lancers should have done. Also WTF why are they all phantom lancer? xd . it's a weak laner. anyways xd
Thanks for this video!
My pleasure!
Maybe put the enemy carry as a strong laner instead of a PL for the video,.
eg drow, CK. or some obnoxious safelane combo that boots you out of lane
Oh god I love it when carries start to cry I guess I'm a sadist
so useful
great video
very nice guide :)
ohhhhhhh this makes so much sense
Most annoying thing is this is exactly what I do. As an offlane I am official "cannon fodder". I know that. So I need to harass without dying. Then the supp on my lane is "JUST TOWER HUG" AND IS 100% USELESS.
i love the way you process every move, to engineer level 😅.
ty ❤️
This video literally tells me to not pick PL in any game possible but great video though must see offlane guide to all offlaners out there
Great video Bitburger
I love khezu theory alot.i miss his streams
minute 1 is important meanwhile my safelane support afk base, minute 5 is important my safelane support roaming mid
This was awesome
Followed , good Video.Keep on!
Much appreciated!
Where is nightstalker this whole time ? 🤔(5:39)
Dp just slaps. Like fresh prince slaps ✋🏾🤣
brooooooooooo 😂😂😂
16:20 why does the enemy have PL and an Antimage
yea if i had a support like that everygame
Why one bracer? and why skip soul ring?
Is it better to play on low graphics
I've been in a lot of situation in 9:51 where my teammates would want to walk up to hit the mid tower. If I dont follow them, they will die mid and flame me. If I follow them and hit mid, we may lose the fight when they respawn coz we're out of spells. Anyone else experienced this?
yes. you need that carry mentality. if your team insists on suiciding mid, just go jungle and farm or split push, maybe you'll be able to carry solo later in the game. if not, the game is doomed anyway, having a trash team
Ignore them, that's all you can do, objectives shouldn't be forced, they come naturally after pushing waves. If early game you can't break a tower fast enough before the enemy respawns just tp somewhere else and take that time to shove a different lane.
Why no stick with DP against ogre pl?
10:50 why halberd first over bkb?
Nice tips but you should have examples were the lane went bad also
thats already on its way!
@@KheZu thanks been following the competitive scene on and off since Stay green HoN days :D I remember moonmeander, tralfamadore and bkid having a hard time with you in the tournaments. especially your wild soul. The Us region is tough I want to see all the top teams in stockholm Quincy Crew
TSM, Evil Geniuses . Jerax is my fellow countryman
do it in SEA
but the title of the video should have been " how easy is offlane against PL" :D
How Easy Is The Off Lane against PL?
That was so helpful and I’m a mid laner
What is the offlane
retreating after a bad play is something low mmr players do not have a concept of. They go and die and think of themselves as heroes.
*sad PL noises*
The problem is my team 10mn=10 dead 😂😂
khezulol. No team pro team will take serious khezu again after luring enemy team to the triangle where his carry medusa is farming ancient stacks. When he could have instead die and not rat on his carry. Agent K LOL
3 of 3 games, going against PL😀 funny😀
Offlane? Ez. Brushing his teeth? Impossiblle
Damn what the heck is this?
So ive been playing wrong all the time going auto pilot with my brain not thinking 10 steps ahead of the enemy
This game is terribly complicated even with 3,000 hours under my belt
ok thats how u play against pl what about something like drow
TIL Khezu only plays against PL safelane haha
How to destroy PL with 3 different heroes
The problem about this type of videos is that the other guy (sky) knows what he's doing. Clearly making it easier for dk. Despite having undying on enemy. In Low mmr that sky will play it safe and afraid
if you think like this you will never climb. Problem with your argument is that in the enemy team you will also play against 2 people who don't know what they are doing. In low MMR you play against undying who goes afk or goes to pull and doesnt abuse his levels & endless arguments can be done here. Start taking some responsibility for your games ffs.
I think you just need to tell them what you want as offlane.
If they didnt follow: okay
If they did follow: cool
@@bruhbruh4635 yeah they usually don't. Sea server will pick jakiro and farm on lane to buy witcblade. It is what it is ahaha
Well when i offlane, this doesnt look like this. Lets say i go DK as well, my teammate the SKY afks undertower or tries to race me with lasthits despite me pinging them and he uses all of his spells on the ranged creep so i cant lasthit it. The enemy has a viper support with 19 clarities nonstop spamming all abilities on me + break, for some reason doesnt touch the alpha male sky support who only focuses the creeps. And then just as cherry on top of the cake we get casual earth spirit ganks and invo sunstrikes from the enemy team. And of at the end of the match all our lanes were lost despite half of the enemy team being bot all the time. And im the one reported for speaking up to the lows. Gived up on dota.