My intellect is somewhat dull but I'm sneaky as hell and I'm pretty sure I'd be able to cheat. Get the stupid idiots to start playing for money and clean out bigly.
For youth, Mensa has two honor societies both with honor cords and sashes and all that other junk you decorate the graduation robes with. We signed up for the discounts.
My older brother has a high IQ and he was a straight A student in school. Something always bothered me about the attention he got: it fed his ego. He was also very good looking, which made him have a narcissistic personality. He did well in his studies until he faced minor set backs for the first time in his life when he was in the university. He never tried to ask for help, moreover he ran away from his problems which gradually got worse and he eventually left the university without telling anyone in the family at the time. It's been 20 years and he rarely got out of the house since then. He reminds me of Chuck from Better Call Saul, minus being a lawyer. I learned that IQ can't go far without a mature personality and a direction. If the person is satisfied with IQ alone, then they won't feel the need to accomplish anything. Also, high IQ doesn't mean everything in life comes easily. Parents who have smart kids should not take intelligence for granted, they should invest in their personalities. Thank you for the informative video.
One of the things they have discovered is that high-talent people don't tend to persevere well and thus under-achieve. Since stuff that is difficult for average people comes easy to them, they never learn to work hard to accomplish things and are quickly discouraged at the first sign of difficulty. That's why they now tell parents and teacher to praise students for the effort they put into things, the specifics of "You really picked out which data was relevant," etc., and to NEVER praise a child for being smart.
Jeremy Kenny he’s broadcasting the effects of lack of adversity and good fortune brought his brother into narcism and made him struggle in the world past public school. Like damn you’re making a big assumption off of absolutely nothing besides trying to be an asshole.
I took the Mensa test purely out of curiosity to see what my IQ was. I passed and was invited to join. For me this was an amazing boost for my self-esteem. At school I did really badly because I was so isolated and miserable. I was considered stupid by my teachers and probably by my peers as well. I think having a high intelligence can make you feel very alone and frightened because you over-think everything. Now I go to Mensa meetings regularly and thoroughly enjoy them. I don't know what high intelligence is, but I know that at Mensa I can talk to anyone about any subject no matter how deep or scientific it is, and know that the person I am talking to will fully understand what I am saying, though they may not agree. I love it when you talk to someone really bright: you can both talk really fast and can jump rapidly from point to point without having to wade laboriously through all the reasoning behind the argument because you know they know it anyway. This isn't true with talking to anybody down the pub. Mensa certainly is elitist, but so is being in any specialist club with people who are good at something, such as playing football, or acting, or studying mathematics, or anything. Mensa doesn't pretend to have any purpose or agenda, it is just a social club, and it's fun.
My daughter did it for the challenging test, for fun! She scored high and got in. She now receives discounts on computers, car insurance and more. Shes definitely not narcissistic. She doesn't even tell anyone about it because of videos like this.
Yes. The discounts are awesome. Great perk of Mensa. I don’t think the other societies offer. I’m in Mensa and the membership came in handy on my most recent trip. 🙏🏽
Why is it ok to give privileges to people like that? 🤦 Again our society makes life easier to those, who already have it easier - more intelligent, or richer folks, instead of helping marginalised people. Having high IQ is not an achievement, one doesn't control whether they have the right genes or get proper nutrition at first few years of life
@@KateeAngel she paid to be in mensa, it's not really "free discounts". think of it as a club. They are like minded people that enjoy each other's company and conversations. There's alot more "free stuff" for people that are under privileged.
@@rolandogarciaiii6458 really? How many different perks does one get? (Little ol 135 here 😊) ✅ I want to get in just to PROVE i know what I I am Talking about… not in a tyrant way, but in a “I know what I am talking about to HELP you “ way… that’s all! ✅
Debbie Rogers Actually I’m not being sarcastic MENSA promotes a non scientific survey a la Cosmopolitan magazine (the heady feminist periodical that apparently has a mandate to publish a monthly article on how to give the best BJ... but I digress as that’s not MENSA’s fault... as far as I know) that squats all over numerous longitudinal studies (i.e., actual science) to promote a “tortured artist/genius” narrative I’m not sure what the bee in Ms. Donaldson’s bonnet is Maybe she’s a MENSA member that participated in that junk “science”
I believe it's a thing about "being in the right room". Confucius said: "If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room". Being highly intelligent, it's not easy to find people on your level or higher than you, but these are the people you should want to associate with to grow and develop yourself.
@@shotarodeniet3301 Very short sighted comment. Tell me, where in normal life would you find a room full other people who at least have the base qualification for being smart? I know IQ doesn't result in being smart and there some people who are smart but have an IQ lower than 130, but being intelligent might actually help, even if some people you find there might be just narcissist assholes. We had a similar club when I was at elementary school, it was very good to connect with kids with similar intelligence back then, while most where just playing cowboys and princess, we could discuss nuclear power and other (for us) interesting stuff.
@Ricky Moore I'm wondering what you mean by "midwit"; when I looked for definitions, they tend to say someone in IQ ranges 105-120 who perceive themselves as smarter and more authoritative than they are. The way you said "130 and 150 are different" makes me think you mean "midwit" as someone who is between major percentiles(?); i.e, between 99.9 and 99.999 or between 90 and 99.9, etc. Is that what you mean? Because I'm wondering how that works... are "midwits" more likely to be intellectually dishonest in your opinion, or is their "wit" overshadowed by their "mid"-ness? Tl;dr - I'm wondering what a "midwit" is in this case, and why it is you "don't trust midwits"
Yo! Member of Mensa here, I don’t know much about other members but this is how I feel. Also English is my third language so please excuse my phrasing, thank you! Mensa membership for me isn’t a title of power or any kind of certificate that I’m better than other people. I am proud of it, I really am but more in the sense of like owning a rare collectible or something, as the collectible itself doesn’t enhance the collector’s own status. I’m not stupid and I’m not super smart either, but I’m smart enough to know that being smart alone is not enough and never will be. It won’t bring you happiness, it won’t bring you love, it won’t bring you success nor even satisfaction. Smartness is like a mirror, everyone has one. It lets you see your blind spots, it gives you a clearer view of the world. But a lot of people just ends up admiring their own reflection instead, never utilizing the mirror to its fullest potential. And the thing about your own reflection, is that the closer you lean into it, the larger it becomes, and the larger it becomes, the less behind you will actually see. So take a step back, allow your own image shrink a bit, and you’ll begin to notice the blind spots that your ego has covered up slowly revealing themselves. When that happens, face them and you’ll grow into a better person. I initially joined Mensa in the hopes of getting rid of my insecurities, to prove that I’m not stupid or anything. I took the test knowing fully well that I’m going to be accepted and when I eventually did, I proved nothing other than that I’m insecure enough to seek external reassurance and foolish enough to take a test I know I would do well at. I really don’t know what else to say, other than that you shouldn’t worry about the whole Mensa thing, it’s not that secretive, not that exclusive and not that elite as you might think. It is hella fun to romanticize about it but realistically, joining Mensa is like joining any other clubs, it is made up of people just like you, not of divine beings :D
A good friend of mine joined Mensa, he has unfortunately passed away from a motorcycle accident. He was a funny, extremely kind, down to earth, nerdy guy. He said he joined just for the fun of it and was definitely the type to do such things for the fun of it. He was an extremely intelligent man and have no doubt he legitimately passed whatever tests that have to be taken to be invited to join. Off topi, I still miss him all the time, he was a wonderful person and one of the best people I’ve ever had the pleasure to meet and have in my life.
Well said, sorry about your friend, but it's good that u remember him so well, losing people sucks....the stories I could tell, but yeah, honoring someone's memory like this, that's good....if people do that for us when we're gone....I think it means we lived a good life.
You can't be too rich or too good-looking, people will gravitate to you, even straight people of your gender. But you can be "too smart" - that makes many people feel uncomfortable. That's why Mensa exists
no, people aren't uncomfortable of you being "too smart". they are just put off by your underdeveloped social skills. I know someone who's well on his way to an ivy league university, and he's super chill, nonjudgmental, and just a pleasure to talk to
trust me: people love hanging out with people who are smarter than them. so long as they're not pricks. after all, we're all watching vidoes made by a guy who is vastly more educated than most of us here. do you think we're all uncomfortable?
@J Boss if you're really reading your own comment and thinking "yeah, the reason i can't relate to people is because i'm too smart. there's no way there could be an error in the way i'm behaving or communicating" then can you really be as smart as you tell everybody you are? ask yourself this: why is it so important that the reason for your alienation from society is that you're "too smart for them"? wouldn't it be better to believe you're just fucking it up, since that would leave you with something you could actually change or improve upon? also as an aside, you've made several spelling errors in your statement. i'm not really a stickler, but it seems like a super smart person who's so intelligent that people beneath them are too dull and ignorant to appreciate their conversation would effortlessly spell every word correctly, especially considering the universality of spellcheck. one mistake could be a keyboard error. but "payed to learn"? i point this out not to be cruel, but to illustrate that people's estimation of both their own intelligence and the actual value that it plays in their life are both greatly inflated, generally speaking. they'd be happier if they disabused themselves of the notion that their unique and beautiful intelligence is a burden that forever marks them as apart and alien from the drooling, imbecilic masses. they wound themselves.
Consider the one constant in every conversation: you. This is pure speculation but maybe you're looking for someone _else_ to make a conversation interesting, when you could strive to _make interesting conversation_ instead. If you can do that, almost everyone can give you a good conversation.
@@THEFRISKIESTDINGO Yeah you got me! I give up. Please can you give me some career and relationship advice now? Without your insight, where would I be?! :D
Apjooz your heart’s in the right place, but I think you severely underestimated the nastiness within people. They alienate those who are different than them, especially if they have something (like intelligence) that makes the rest of the group feel inferior
I joined Mensa in 2008. I was only a member for a year and did not renew my dues. OF THE PEOPLE I MET, I would say most of them joined for the reason you've mentioned. It seems to me that Mensa is easy to shit on because no one really knows what goes on in the groups. They're usually just playing board games and working on some sort of puzzle. They're not shit-talking the "plebs." It's harmless and picking on them now is just like picking on the nerds in school: cowardly.
I joined Mensa, after recently discovering I was highly gifted, as a way to gain inspiration and better relate to people who may have similar experiences with development as I. I have been an underachiever most of my life due to ADHD, and with it beginning to be under control, I feel like a whole new world is opening up to me.
I used to obsess about IQ because I have pretty much always had a low self esteem and since I seem to have a fairly good IQ, I desperately wanted some way to try to lift up my self esteem to say to myself "ok you now know that you're good in this way", to counterweight the bundle of massive insecurities I had/have - social anxiety being the big one. Even though I don't quite qualify to be a member of MENSA, it still gave me some peace of mind and a bit of confidence and "laid backness" to know that my IQ is "up there in the ball park", even though it doesn't help much in the grand scheme of things and my life isn't exactly blessed by doing well in that regard. It's a double edged sword and I guess I use the wrong edge to badger myself most of the time, instead of being happy.
My two cents...find yourself some really good hobby/hobbies you can work on. It helps your levels of confidence greatly and can give you good subjects of conversation or introduce you to different people who share your interests. IQ can only start you off so far before your ego overinflates and you plummet. IQ isn't multifaceted and not 100% reliable, nor will it shill you any true happiness or true confidence. 😊
@@dont_harsh_my_mellow Thanks :). Yeah I have at least one hobby, but due to my social anxiety it takes place behind a computer screen (gaming). I guess it does give me confidence in a gaming context. Just getting older also passively adds a bit of confidence. And yeah IQ is a tool so to speak. Not something that necessarily brings happiness.
Cnith You are already more intelligent than most people because you know your IQ will not help you in life, as you stated that life wouldn’t be blessed in that regard and it may not bring you happiness.
So relatable! Like you, I also have a bit of social anxiety, and have dealt with bullying and peer rejection a lot in my life. But hey, at least I have a high IQ, so I'm good at something...apparently. Except IQ is absolutely meaningless at the end of the day.
You are aware that the average Physics/Mathematics/Philosophy major in an average university would qualify for Mensa, right? Being the top 10%(120 on 15 SD) or the top 5% (125 on 15 SD) might seem nice, but it's nothing impressive really. And it's not true that 120 is the ceiling of utility. It is true for creative fluency and the dating scene, but much like height, even though for some it's enough to reach the cookie jar, you still can't play basketball until you're some sort of anomaly. If you doubt my sources, then ask me for them. BTW the average IQ of a physics major on Stanford is about in the mid 150's, which is about the rarity of one in 8k.
I'm in Mensa. The times I've told people about my IQ it's been in the context of talking about my childhood since I didn't fit in with kids my age so the school had me tested. A high enough intelligence can really make you feel like an outcast, especially as a child and that's a challenge many people don't realize. I joined hoping to find friends and other people with similar experiences to mine and found a really cool set of people that give me a sense of belonging and share that childhood experience. I don't advertise that I'm in Mensa but it's not like it's Fight Club, I tell people about it sometimes when I mention that I was hanging out with mensan friends or like any other social activity I might do. We don't sit around talking philosophy but sometimes philosophy topics can come up if they are connected to whatever we are talking about. No one there will consider it dense or weird if you mention a topic like that and most will want to learn. There are a couple of narcissistic people there but they are few and far between, most mensans are pretty cool and nice people. Since it has rules about tolerance and respect it also feels like pretty safe environment to meet new people.
@@vittocrazi isn't it an Internet axiom that any heated debate that goes on long enough will eventually end in one party calling the other one Hitler (or equivalent)? Might as well cut to the chase. 😎 Seriously though, many people will feel like outcasts at some point, especially when young. And I won't begrudge the A students a support group. Sharing experiences with other people, hopefully good people, shouldn't be open only to people who have hit "rock bottom" and joined a 12-step program. Intentions matter with these things, and it sounds like the OP's intentions were and are good ones. 🙂
My wife and I once moved to a large metropolitan area where we knew no one. I hooked up with Mensa to find interesting people to talk to. Yes, there are some members whose big thing in life is their qualifying for Mensa. There a few who could qualify for P.I.T.A. But I found the intelligent conversation I was looking for. I'm still a member n years later and have found the people interesting and fun to be around, well worth the
Mensa is a way to find other people to have a conversation with that’s not just about women or cars. It does get lonely when you know you are different to other people. In terms of coming across narcissistic, a lot of these people have already been pigeon holed as that due to the way they think. I signed up for it as a way to quantify why I’m always so awkward/ weird in conversations. But being a member definitely can have its benefits. It’s surprising how quickly you can get promotions just by letting your boss know. At the end of the day it’s no different than being in the first 11 at the local football club. Exclusivity is what makes it desirable. Yes it is narcissistic. But that doesn’t make the members narcissists.
Are you so disconnected from reality that you seriously think thats only what people talk about? Also of course the members are narcisistic when their only personality trait is that they joined a group for smarties.
I'm a Native American Asperger geek that has a hobby of learning languages and history - especially historic languages. I also do blacksmithing and wood working. I'm pretty odd. I'm also very spiritual and have a vast knowledge of world religions. I have no problem talking about women or cars. The internet has helped people like me find other people like me. The problem with Mensa, as I've had very bad experience with some of its members, is that it is a egotistical and narcissistic echo chamber - like social media, but worse because it was founded for the very principle of imagining yourself separate from and above others.
Really? I always thought the potential appeal might be to access a better dating pool. This might be more the case for women, though. Looks seems weigh much higher for men than intelligence.
@@sandels5805 - doesn't understand the meaning of obvious exaggerations to send the message across - generalizes the members and downplays the organization - exaggerates in the wrong way just to support the generalization I guess we found the narcisSist who didn't get in
@@imbored4615 The message is that people who aren't in Mensa aren't interesting to talk to. It's the nth exhibit of how people in Mensa are, in fact, narcissistic. Carry on with your coping, though.
I joined our local chapter of Mensa because I thought I'd meet a secret society of fiendishly clever (and painfully attractive) people. I took their test and was accepted though they would not tell me my actual score. What I found in the organization was a collection of elderly and socially awkward people that I didn't have anything in common with. Most were more curious and interesting than the average person but not what I would consider razor sharp. I also noticed many of them didn't have a college education. That baffled me at first but I eventually concluded that they were looking for confirmation that they were bright after being told by the job market they weren't as "useful" as people with degrees. I tried to get the chapter involved in tutoring disadvantaged kids in math and reading through Partners In Education but that was a flop. I found interesting speakers for our gatherings but attendance never grew. I finally quit paying the membership fee and went inactive after a couple of years. I get more out of my local model building club than I ever did out of our local Mensa. EDIT: Patty's game night was fun. I attended (and lost) many of those.
Interesting observations. It seems that most intelligent people with degrees are busy using their intelligence, for example, in the field they work in or their hobbies.
@@natalielynn2203 Although your comment is true, it is not a smart conclusion. For example, driving while intoxicated does not necessarily lead to an accident. Nevertheless, I would not recommend it. Smart people mostly want to learn and college is one way to learn. Each case is different, and Bill Gates is OK without college, but in most cases, it is better to get college education.
Dr. Grande, if you ever started an elite society of psychologically informed, engaged individuals who value an evidence based researched approach, I would totally join! ;)
When I joined the military I scored a 99 on the ASVAB. All the guys in bootcamp and, less often, later talked about the test and shared their scores but I kindof knew I shouldn't say mine, especially when someone would brag about their 85 or something. Still, eventually they asked me and I said the truth. The conversations that go this way always proceed as follows: 1. People call bullshit 2. More insightful people grow quiet as they read my face and determine I am not lying. 3. A lull occurs as I don't know what to say and simply bask in their attention. 4. The conversation shifts to "yeah well the test is just a number anyway lol"
well. thats just how humans are, i guess. anyway bro I'm looking to go into the air force how the shit did you get a 99? got any advice? looking for that sweet sweet software engineer job.
@@glassesspokesperson6824 I didn't study or anything, studying will bring you up a couple points. Make sure you can do algebra and remember the basic formulas from your SATs or you'll give up free points on the math section. Its an IQ test though, its designed to be nigh impossible to study for (though you can eek out a few points on it).
I got a 98, but on my test, somehow the last digit of my phone number didn't come through - a one. Eventually I got a call from some department of the military, and the dude was so proud he figured out to just dial all the possible numbers for the last digit and only had to call 4 numbers before he got me. 4 numbers? to guess "1"? Anyway, wound up not enlisting.
My sister always tests super high on IQ tests. She participated in every awards program in school and was enrolled in all the accelerated academic courses at school. Until she dropped out and threw her future away through bad decisions. I always score only the barest whisker above the median, but I learned how to study, did acceptably in school, and I've enjoyed a modest amount of career success. To this day, my sister feels that she is entitled to more than she has achieved. In summary: a high IQ might open some doors, but it won't make life easier on the other side of them.
@@tzumer2534 Yes, high IQ children are especially sensitive. There's also a reason we have the saying: "There's a fine line between genius and insanity." (Because it's true: High IQ individuals often suffer from mental illness).
I find that 110 IQ represents a high probability of success in business. Intelligence that doesn't over-complicate and analyse everything TOO MUCH. Fundamentals, routines, and checking off your goals can sometimes be a problem with high IQ.
I joined mensa for the group buying power. I expected travel discounts, cheaper car insurance, and low credit card interest rates. They offered "deals", but nothing I could not get without mensa, so I let my membership lapse without going to any meetups. The only time I can think it appropriate to discuss my high standardized test scores is when I am trying to stress to my younger relatives that being "smart" is overrated. I had a college roomate who told me he scored little more than half what I did on the SAT (he was a transfer from junior college) and he was one of the most academically successful people I knew, much more successful than me. Through hard work and excellent time management, he earned a full scholarship, a black belt in taekwando and eventually got a Phd too.
It seems like in most cases, people who are really intelligent would not need to explain that directly, because having a large vocabulary or extensive knowledge tends to speak for itself.
Not exactly, there are alot of highly intelligent people who disregard a big vocabulary to focus their intelligence on something more important to them but with that being said I guess you could say that same person could acquire a bigger vocabulary faster than a person with a lower iq if they wanted to. Vocabulary is a skill just like many other things, spelling words incorrectly doesn't make you stupid but most people who do spell things incorrectly are usually stupid. I know it sounds weird kinda like how most murderers are psychopaths but not all psychopaths are murderers. I hope you get the point I'm trying to make but I do have a friend that likes to overuse big words to feel superior to others and he claims that isn't the case but when those words aren't needed when speaking to regular everday normal people it just proves my assessment even further.
The most intelligent person in the world could be someone that grew up in an illiterate farming community. He/she can barely speak the language of their country but can probably understand mathematics like you wouldn't believe
John Dee my grandfather didn’t finished 2nd grade, couldn’t read very well. But he went on to build a real estate empire worth $150 million by the time he passed away. Intelligence shows in different ways.
@Llama Treee If you are doing it just to sound smart, I agree. Actually using big words when other people don't understand them is stupid because you are not communicating well.
Clubs don't have to "contribute to society" or "contibute to the greater good". Chess clubs don't do it, golf clubs don't do it, book clubs don't do it, so why should high IQ societies do it? They bring joy to their members, that's it.
Any other club is devoted to a certain hobby or interest. Being smart is not a hobby or interest. You are comparing apples and oranges here. Joining Mensa is like joining the ‘beautiful people’s club’... it’s an elitist group. So this is where accomplishments come in. If a group of really smart people were getting together to share ideas and actually change the world, then it would be an actual club and not a narcissists playground.
@@cameronfielder4955 Mensa is about identifying, fostering and encouraging research on intelligence. People join Mensa to meet people, share ideas and get stimulated. Some do for ego, fine, they pay and we almost never see them! I have organized math problem solving sessions and proctored tests for the organisation. Also, Mensa has also open events. As in every clubs, there are jerks; That simply shows Mensa is diversified.
@@sjuvanet That sure tat relying on hearsay and public opinion is the best metric. From which chapter were you ? Which activities did you do ? Did you participate in the challenges ? How many articles did you share in the internal magazine ? Did you try mensa select games ? In how many GIS were you active ? Did you make use of SIGHT service ?
Being a Mensa member or not, we are ALL looking for validation. Every day, every second. Whenever we are doing more than breathing, helping others, taking care of our primary needs, the rest is just a search for validation. We even choose our friends based on our interests - to validate that our choices in life are the right ones, because our friends chose the same at those points we have in common. And this is ok. We are living in a world with many possibilities, you can now be and do whatever you want. Some might even call it a crazy world. Might be. So being smart makes you question society rules (a society that we invented), you have different answers to life and you feel an outsider, weird, different in all possible ways because you just have other answers others can`t see. Finding people alike, understanding (by passing the test) that you are just different and you need to accept it is a life jacket not a narcissistic approach. PS: I am not a Mensa member.
I did a Mensa test. Why? My parents always told me I was stupid. I didn’t think I was, but I needed to know I wasn’t stupid. It turns out I was right and they were wrong. It did make me feel better about myself. I wasn’t in the 2% , but it was close enough that they invited me to do another test. Apparently you can be invited to do another test. I declined because I don’t need to join Mensa that to feel better than others. I found the test basically proves a persons ability to reason, problem solving abilities, and an eye to notice differences quickly. That’s really what I walked away with.
I'm too slow for Mensa. I took a test for them once, and I got nearly every question I answered right, but I ran out of time before I finshed. If speed is required, I'm not qualified. No big deal, I'm just in the habit of thinking things over at leisure. I know I'm not a genius, I've seen real ones in action, but in some ways I'm far above average. I suck at higher math but my verbal skills are very high. I just work with what I've got and don't worry about the rest.
That is very interesting. I once read intelligence is sometimes described as speed, i heard one time that normal people can grasp all the things that intelligent people can eventually just that they will take a lot more time to do it.
I'm also like you, i like to think deeply at my slow pace, there are a lot of things you can discover that way. Do you think this is a reflector of iq or just personality?
It's been a while since I studied this shit, but I remember they told me that these tests are made up of 2 general concepts: Power and speed. Power is your ability to get shit done without time being a variable. Speed is how fast you are able to get shit done. For example, take-home tests are power tests (assuming you don't cheat). So, it sounds like you have a lot of power, but crap speed. IMO the speed component is a use it or lose it kind of a thing. If you're not regularly practicing it, you're not gonna be speedy. I doubt that a guy who's capable of scoring high on an IQ test but who isn't reading regularly or doing math / logic puzzles on a regular basis is going to do well.
One thing I will say is 70 dollars is probably not a big deal to what i presume to be middle aged men who are obviously financially stable enough to pay to take intelligence tests
Seriously, though, why is it so “cringey” to be proud of belonging to Mensa? I don’t see any difference between that and being a star athlete or a Pageant Queen or belonging to any club, really. People get so triggered over Mensa...I just don’t see why saying you’re a member is some kind of social gaffe. People wear Harvard shirts or beauty crowns or drive Lambos...what’s the difference? Asking for a friend...
@@mgal6234 People cope with insecurities in so many different ways. We all want to be attractive, smart, funny, etc.. The distinction between wearing make-up, or exercising, and entering a beauty pageant could very well stem from the same insecurity. Do we want to better ourselves for validation, or do we want validation through being "better" than others? Certainly, this is not always the intent, but it is how these sorts of things are often received. Each person has their own insecurities, which can be reinforced when someone thinks they are "better" than that person. Inherently, exclusive groups are contingent on members possessing some quality that is not possessed by others. If someone wears a Harvard shirt, drives a Lambo, or joins Mensa, they are sending a message to those around them- whether they hope to do so, or not. Just my vantage point, though, I certainly cannot speak for others.
Christopher McDonald I completely agree with you, and am also willing to admit that as an unattractive, bullied, female teenager, I wanted **something** to feel good about. So I joined Mensa. But I soon found out (and it’s kind of confirmed here and in the comments) that anyone in Mensa is kind of immediately deemed a “narcissist” who just wants to flaunt his or her IQ. I just don’t understand why Mensa members IN PARTICULAR are somewhat ridiculed for even mentioning their membership. After all, religions could be considered “exclusive clubs,” as well as models, engineers, doctors, etc. I understand and agree with your point that people should seek internal validation, but honestly...I don’t understand the ridicule when someone “dares mention” their Mensa affiliation or wears a Mensa T-shirt. (I have never done anything like that BECAUSE of the fear of being ridiculed...) Otherwise I totally agree that validation comes from within, but sometimes it takes a lifetime to find that kind of self-love. If ever, really.
You have to have a certain IQ. I belong and so did my dad. His IQ was 183. My therapist thought it would help me socialize more normally and learn how to deal with the general public in a more congenial manner. I had problems dealing with people who didn't understand things as quickly and clearly as I do. My dad was a mathematic genius and a f------ nightmare to deal with. He got upset with me when I was in the 2nd grade and was having problems grasping the elements of algebra and calculus. He was nuts!
@@TheLadyDelirium not certain. I started writing short stories at 4 years old and reading and writing about ancient Egypt and Greece. My younger brother's IQ was also very high. Both my parent had master's degrees. Perhaps genetics.
@@TheLadyDelirium There is both. When the kids were little they got lots of books read to them they both cought the bug and learned to love books and libraries. As far as a genetic component I strongly suggest that is strong probability that is a very good case to made also.
I think he was upset that you were stealing his thunder. Before you came along he was the smart guy who everybody lionized and he could see his place in the family going to you.
Having a high IQ doesn't mean you'll have an easy life. Wanting to associate with others with similar intelectual capacities doesn't make you narcissistic - it makes you human. I have an IQ in the top 2% according to IQ tests (Stanford-Binet) administered both by a private psychologist and by my school district when I was child. They were administered because I had severe behavioral issues (acting out in class, defying authority) as a 1st grader. I was initially labeled as hyperactive. After the IQ tests, I was labeled as "gifted" and segregated into advanced / enriched learning classes. I still suffered from cognitive deficits, especially relating to language (spelling) and mathematics, as well as sensory and social issues I now believe are related to high functioning autism and (ASD) and ADHD. I dropped out of high school due to emotional traumas suffered as a teenager related to violence and abuse that came from inside and outside of family. As an adult I became a licensed architect after doing remedial work at a community college, and graduated Cum Laude from Cal Poly in the early 1990s . I eventually worked at Walt Disney Imagineering, became licensed, and quit Disney to become a professor of architecture at Santa Monica College in the 2000's. I had great difficulties with the ethics of the administration of that college and in 2010 resigned what was an effectively tenured position at that institution and quit teaching entirely. I've struggled my whole life when dealing with intuitions, people in authority, and groups of people generally. I've never felt especially smart much less superior because of my many deficits and struggles with anxiety and depression. I rarely disclose my IQ to anyone, because I find it puts people off. People figure it out anyway, and often become jealous, and I've been bullied, especially as a child because of it. Even some of the psychologists I've seen over the years seemed to take offence when I disclosed it - something I do as a matter of course with mental health professionals because I believe It's relevant to my career and social struggles. I considered joining MENSA as part of what would now be called "personal branding" as something I could use on my resume after graduation. I also thought it might provide a way to literally meet "like minded people" lol. Having an extreme IQ / neurological / cognitive profile is very lonely. I decided against joining MENSA because again, I felt uncomfortable disclosing that I have a high IQ. It works against you, as the title of this video suggests. As a teacher I learned that while IQ can certainly be an important factor in student success, it's far from the most important trait. The most important traits are high motivation, curiosity, and discipline / work ethic. Work ethic being the single most important when it comes to academic success. In career success another whole set of factors emerge which center on good SOCIAL skills combined with ruthlessness and ambition. Not competence or honesty, or any of that. Competence is like intelligence (crystalized intelligence actually) it must be combined with Machiavellian social skills from what I've seen to reach the highest echelons in most organizations. Without that sort of ruthless ambition, the merely competent / intelligent will lose to the stupider less competent but more ruthless and ambitious every single time. At least everywhere I ever worked. So now I'm retired from the rat race. Ketamine infusion therapy helped me overcome my anxiety and depression, and now I'm an artist and musician. Life is good, but to my former academic and architecture colleagues and peers, I'm seen as a drop-out and a failure. They all seem quite miserable though - just like I was when in their shoes. I've never been happier than I am right now. So there you go! =D
What you described reminds me of something I read called having skin in the game. A drug addict, for example, is one of the most resourceful individuals you'll ever observe.. and that is because they have skin in the game. Being highly motivated and ruthless is a coctail for success. But there is the hedonic treadmill... so a highly successful person is not necessarily the happiest. In fact they are often the most miserable. The competent and intelligent person might lose out to those more ruthless and motivated (but less competent), but I'm willing to bet that the former are happier people. And I'm guessing that is precisely the case with you. Thank you for sharing your words!
Society treats anyone non average as an outcast. This includes high IQ people as well. Mensa is more of a safe place for hi IQers and this guy thinks they are narcissists.
@@jackorlove4055 My experience exactly. Most "sucessful" people are miserable. I sure was, and so were pretty much all of the people with more "success" than me. I've come to see competitiveness as the root of most social evil. It creates resentment and is driven by greed and ego. It requires putting other people down - litterally. There can only be one winner, everyone else is a loser, and becomes resentful of the winner. This resentment drives further competion, and yet more resentment. Meanwhile, the winner must always look over their shoulder lest a loser take them out. Imagine deliberately framing your reality and society around such an absurd and wicked system. Well, that's our society. Yes, we are naturally competitive to degree. That doesn't mean we should fully embrace that aspect of human nature. We are also naturally jealous, greedy, and vengeful. Gluttonous and ragefull. Lazy. There are less destructive aspects of human instinct like cooperation and respect and moderation that might make society a little less horrible if we alloy them with our competitive instincts.
Are you twice exceptional? It’s basically when you’re gifted in some areas but have deficits in others due to disorders such as ADHD, Autism, dyslexia, etc.
I joined Mensa 30 years ago so I could find friends in a strange city that I just moved to. It was fun for a while, and the people were very nice, but I didn't make the "connections" I was anticipating. The group tends to sponsor social events instead of intellectual debate and learning. I feel lucky to have had the opportunity and experience.
As a former member of Mensa, I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. I thought it would be an opportunity to engage with interesting, intelligent people. It wasn't. By the time I finished my master's degree, I found that it was more interesting to engage with people who were well-educated than people who had just scored high on a standardized test. I would note that I didn't seek out tests to join Mensa. I was administered various IQ tests over a period of time by state and federal government agencies who were interested in my level of functioning for the purpose of vocational rehabilitation and with those results decided to join to expand my social activities. Those scores did open up my educational opportunities and I didn't mind telling people that. I would also note that I was given several personality inventories and narcissism was not a salient trait in any of those tests.
I would say that the experience of Mensa depends on the group. I used to be in a wonderful group in Warrington, UK with people from many walks of life for many years. We had fun. We had stimulating conversations. I learned a lot about human nature. I then moved quite a distance and was pleased to find a new local group to join (I'm an introvert and find it difficult to make new friends). I didn't last long. I found them to be elitist and engaged in one-upmanship. I left. I have just recently rejoined as I'm really missing those stimulating conversations. There is no local group where I am now, but modern technology means I have found some local Mensans - some of whom are friends of friends! - who I wouldn't have met otherwise. When I was a teenager I was told Mensa was a way for people who were too nerdy to make friends to socialise, and that's why I joined. For me it really can be an opportunity to engage with interesting, intelligent people.
I think the real difference of distinguishing a person with high IQ against one that only relies on the number shown is only the fact that one never stops learning, is always on the lookout for new things to discover, and doesn't brag just because he's in a club. While the other one preferes bringing up their number in any conversation they have, and not even demonstrating it. "People who boast about their IQ are losers", said Hawking, and I agree with that.
I think it's difficult to complain about the particular issues that come with high intelligence without coming off like you're bragging. It's like complaining about being so pretty that you keep getting romantic propositions. High intelligence can come with depression and isolation from peers. I think it can also result in misunderstandings because people will think you're mocking them or being antagonistic when they don't understand what you're saying. I've gotten excited that I can talk about certain topics with people, only to be disappointed when I find they can't carry a conversation about the topic like I assumed when they mentioned their opinion on it.
I thought about joining Mensa so I could put it on job applications. My idea was it'd be a way to signal to the employers that even if I'm not their ideal candidate, I'm smart so I'd be worth the effort to train. What stopped me was that literally every person I talked to about doing that said something along the line of "oooh, don't do that, that sounds so vain."
I can understand your reasoning for including it in job applications, but agree it’s a bad idea. In all likelihood, the person filtering out the resumes would likely be less qualified clerics or HR before they reached the hiring manager. Either way, I think most people want to work with someone whom is a good social fit for the organisation, and implying superior IQ would not work in your favour in this regard
When I went for my first job and had no experience and just my school exam certificates I included my Mensa test results in my qualifications folder, and it got me the job, but now I've got life experience and real exam results I don't feel the need.
Yeah, average people themselves are too vain, so seeing someone with a higher IQ score would intimidate them and they would then project their own wounded vanity onto you. For most people who actually do have a high IQ score, all they are saying by including it in a resume is that they have good reasoning abilities, good working memory, likely good verbal ability i.e. some of the things that in and of themselves would be fine to put on a resume (good communicator, good memory for details, etc), but when you just say you have high IQ it triggers all of their own insecurities and becomes a no-no. Also, if you mention that you have high IQ, people tend to assume you then must have an all-over perfect life. Whenever something that you do is less than perfect, they point out that if you really had that high of an IQ score, that thing you did/said would be perfect as well. No right to commit any mistake in life anymore.
@@ElenaKomleva Probably one of the reasons I don't mention it any more - if I've got such a high IQ why don't I have a better job/life? Having a high IQ doesn't stop me having intermittent MH problems or different goals in life than financial ambitions (which has backfired on me in times of austerity), both of which mean I slide back down the ladder, and I keep on climbing back up!
Elena Komleva I think most high IQ people see it as odd behaviour as well - especially if the applicant is applying for a job that already requires qualifications and experience that only someone with a high IQ could attain. I know in my profession I’d be thinking they had some sort of personality or narcissistic disorder. Perhaps also low self awareness which never works out well in collaborative work environments
I was in a Mensa test, we was given papers to fill our name there. I managed to write my name, sighted out loud and asked, "so, am I in?" Oddly so, everyone did laugh.
I'm in Mensa... Joined maybe thirty years ago. As a child, I was sent for psychological testing recommended by my public school teacher. She felt I had emotional problems that needed to be addressed. Part of the assessment was an IQ test, and my score was quite high. It ended up causing me problems in school. Although nobody would have suspected I was especially intelligent, (I did quite poorly in school, and never went to college), I remember walking down the hall in elementary school and overhearing two teachers whom I did not know speaking... One said with a very snide tone... "There's that boy with the high IQ." To this day, I don't understand why she took such a derisive attitude toward me. Would she have had the same tone if I had been the boy with the low IQ? I was only nine years old. Upon meeting and speaking with me, nobody would suspect I might have a high IQ. My spelling is atrocious, my grammar, changes with the person "with whom I am speaking"... (Normally I speak like a hillbilly.) My father and brother, are also Mensa members. My wife could automatically qualify and join via her GRE scores. I wonder what the odds are (Mensa mathematicians?) of two people by chance meeting, falling in love and both being Mensa qualifiers? I'm an accomplished musician and I also wonder if that might be an offshoot of my IQ. The older I get, (in my 60's now), the more interesting I find old people. I enjoy talking at length with them and I try to let them know that I appreciate their company. Anyway...sorry about the ramblings.
Assuming every person finds someone and falls in love the odds are of course theortically 2% * 2% = 1 in 2500 Not very low if you consider the fact that as he said in the vid more than the top 2% qualify, you're more likely to marry someone that is closer to you intelligence level, and you're likely to have multiple lovers (hopefully not)
I took an IQ test as part of neurodevelopmental disorder diagnosis, and during that test I discovered that I had very little working memory - which led to a second diagnosis. My score serves as a reminder that I’m not dumb as rocks, just not neurotypical. (edit: I like rocks a lot, not trying to be mean to them
Funny fact: in Spanish, (non-formal, "commoner" Spanish) the word "mensa" can be used as an insult against someone who isn't very smart, or considered an idiot. I've heard it being used in that way many times, and it's just funny to me because I always remember those occasions when hearing about Mensa. Anyway, interesting topic today.
@@DrGrande Your effort to do that is one of many reasons you have such a vast following! I have severe ADHD, and ums ers likes & you know really distract me, because I start wondering "do I know?" And that is a long rabbit hole for me. I can think all night about whether I know, even though I do know that 99% of the time I conclude that I don't know, and then I feel that I need to say that I do not know to the person asking me if I know out of context. Say like, like, way too much. The you know one makes me 😵💫😵💫😵💫 But the biggest plus of your channel to me, is that you don't splice your videos very much, doing the cuts and whatnot. I can't stand being barraged with information without any meaningful pauses. I really think this is one of my best subscriptions by far on CZcams
Many years ago, a friend was at a party when, for whatever reason, a person (also known to me) casually mentioned they were a member of Mensa. My friend without hesitation said, oh that's good, because he and his wife were members of Densa!
Having a high IQ is often problematic for people, unless they tend work in academia or otherwise have regular access to other people who are highly intelligent and are interested in discussing a wide variety of issues, from evolutionary psychology to artificial intelligence. Often for children is more of a curse than a blessing because it makes it far more difficult to find friends one's own age to talk about think of subject matter you're interested at the level of understanding you're currently at. Very gifted children also tend to ask their parents questions like, "what's the meaning of life?," And the parents have no idea how to even begin that discussion. Existential crises are common. And unless your parents can afford a gifted school, or let you take university classes early, you're bored out of your skull even in advanced placement courses.
When I was 9 years old, my dad's part-time job was at the horse race track. He was talking to mom about losing $2 because his horse finished last. I asked him if he could place bets on which horse would finish last? He said no, it didn't work that way. I asked him why, but he had no answer. To me, it seemed logical to place bets on which horses would come in FIRST and come in LAST. He and mom just stopped talking and gave me the silent treatment for awhile. I scored 137 in H.S. and failed almost everything except Aviation class, which I LOVED and got straight A's! I took an extra year to graduate H.S. Don't know why, but I've always had trouble making/keeping friends. At 80 years old, I'm accustomed to being a loner. I joined the Army 1964 & learned how to drive a typewriter. In 1967 I volunteered to drive helicopters. In 1968 1st Air Cavalry, Vietnam, I learned to do complex math problems in my head like navigation, fuel consumption, weight & balance, all while dodging trees & bullets at 130 mph. In 1970, I turned down a 1st LT promotion to get out and became a cop. I thought management surely must be better in Law Enforcement, but I was wrong! In L.E., incompetence and corruption are the norm, not the exception. Retired from police bullshit in 1990. Regarding Mensa, the thought of my being on the lowest rung of the Brainiac club doesn't feel attractive to me. I just wouldn't know what a bunch of Rocket Scientists & PHD's were even talking about. I'd be like their pet chimp.
I really appreciate your balanced and calm approach to any topic out there and how well-researched your videos always are. This was both interesting and informative! Thank you for sharing.
In my first two weeks at university they conducted an IQ test on us. From initiation we were so sleep deprived I remember guessing some (ok, a lot) of the answers because I could not keep my eyes open. They called me in about a week later trying to convince me to change course because they felt I would struggle lol. Needless to say I did not change course and I got my degree just fine.
That reminds me of my senior year in college, where I majored in languages. I had to take one more science credit before graduation, so I picked anatomy & physiology. The professor pulled me aside after a day, saying, "You haven't taken chemistry in college. You _will_ fail this course. I suggest you drop the course, now." I thanked her and kept on with it. By midterms, she pulled me aside and said, "Have you ever considered pre-med?" Made me laugh. I got an A for that course. The moral of the story is not to listen too hard to the numbers people.
@@bnic9471 In the immortal words of the late Kenny Rogers, "You've got to know when hold 'em, know when the fold 'em, know when to walk away and know when to run."
An anonymous Mensa member here. Thanks Dr. for your video, I listened to it with interest and can agree with a lot with what you say. I know Mensa attracts a lot of narcissists, but I want people to know that this is mostly not the case. Many members have feelings of inadequacy, insecurity or feeling of being separated from society (lonely), and do the test to simply find answers, understand themselves better, and maybe find peer support. I'm one of those who doesn't tell anyone I'm in Mensa: I entered in my late teens during a period of serious suicidal depression, when I felt I was failing at everything: I was convinced that depression had killed my brains, which I had always relied on at school (straight A student). I felt inadequate and useless. Finding out that I was still "smart" helped me to motivate myself to get into uni after all. I told three close friends of mine who knew about my depression and feelings of inadequacy. Under the surface they didn't take it well and most have since distanced themselves from me over the years, although we are still good friends. Since then I haven't told anyone. So yes, some people in Mensa are narcissistic, but many are not! I guess it's just like any peer support group or hobby club in this world. And as some commenter wrote, mostly it's for a group of nerds who enjoy puzzles and discussing complex things that other people in their lives are simply not interested in discussing. (By the way, the open Facebook Mensa group is a different ballgame, so don't draw conclusions from that. Most people there are not even Mensa).
And no, high IQ does not mean these people are smart in many other aspects of life... I treat high IQ it as a special education zone: as a child I would have needed special support in school, not the kind that panders to narcissism of a gifted student: but rather, special education on social skills, psychological support, etc. would have made school and life easier for me. (Yes, I'm also on the spectrum (suspected Asperger's): so I struggled with social skills.... By the way it is also not true that autistic people lack empathy: many of us have very high (even excessive) empathy, sensitivity and selfless caring.)
As a child I did not know how to hide my own IQ at school, so I probably "overdid" my educational enthusiasm in the eyes of others, and was isolated and bullied as a result. No one advised me as a child, how to manage being high-functioning, but also be popular at school at the same time. Psychologists could help high IQ children in this. But it's important for people to understand, that an intelligent child who speaks his/her thoughts aloud in the class or seeks his/her ideas to be validated by teachers and others is *not* usually the same as narcissism - it's just about being a curious, thinking, enthusiastic gifted child. We get excited like that! It's literally just the way these children function, regardless of their IQ scores. They don't understand that acting like a "smart***" is socially shunned; or that it can hurt or demoralise other students. No teacher ever explained to me, that I was perceived as arrogant or as putting other students down, and that others perhaps bullied me _because_ they felt hurt or undermined by a straight A student in an autistic spectrum who said things without thinking. I was too young to understand, but I do now. As an adult I have learned to "dumb myself down": even when I know answers or can logically reach complex conclusions, I stay quiet or I play dumb. I am careful to not outshine others, so I have more friends now. Although I still feel lonely and separated. Sometimes I still get asked by random people, if I have ever gotten myself tested. I answer vaguely without revealing my score.. A couple of times they asked me straight if I scored above Mensa threshold, and I was honest but humble in my response. So apparently I'm not always able to hide it as well as I think...
I was drafted and got a 149 on the GT test; which is a general intelligence test. A 149 was right at the top of the percentiles in 1967. So, I was placed in the Intelligence School. I took the LSAT twice, First in 1966 where I did rather poorly. While in the Army, I bought LSAT prep books and scored in the 98th percentile the second time. Based on my Army test, I was admitted to Mensa. I wasn't overly impressed by the people I met.
Wow. You're smarter than my friend, Dick Feynman, who won a Nobel Prize in physics for resolving infinite values that arise in Quantum Electrodynamics. I believe he told me that his 127 IQ didn't allow him to qualify for Mensa. He was one of my teachers at Caltech many years ago.😊
@@WalterClements.officialIsn't it surprising a physicist winning the Nobel prize is not in Mensa? Might just means they do not only have Nobel prizes in their club. So cheer on.
My mom was in Mensa briefly, in the hopes of finding smart guys to date/ friends to make. Sadly, she found that most of the people she met were super full of themselves, so she stopped going back. My dad went also, and was invited to a higher IQ society (higher than Mensa, I mean), but he was totally unimpressed by them all and so stopped going. Since I was tested as gifted as a child, I briefly considered attending Mensa in the hopes of making friends, but was totally unimpressed with what I found out about them. In short, my motivation was loneliness and a desire to make friends with people who would understand me. But I never did even apply.
I (protected by my anonymous handle) became a member last year, and am thinking of leaving again for the same reasons you mention. I liked the language puzzles in the international magazine, though. Not sure, what I wanted to prove to myself by becoming a member.
Puzzle Girl, you aren't missing out on much. I joined Mensa when I was younger for the same reason you wanted to. I was lonely and wanted to find my people. I wanted to have conversations about the big questions, and to get guidance from wise elders. It turns out, however, they don't talk about the big questions. They talk about really banal stuff, and the conversation is always dominated by blowhards. I don't remember any actual conversations except for one: A middle-aged woman was going on forever about some Cliff Richard concert she had just gone to. No doubt Cliff Richard had been a big star when she was younger. I do think that pop culture is an incredibly interesting topic of conversation, but this was just a straight-ahead fan-girl account of some boring concert. I felt more isolated than ever.
Dan Phillips I would love to discuss how pop culture defines career choices and industries such as fashion and the real estate trends, I see your point but I don’t think concert chick thought of any of that.
You should still apply I think. Just because your father met people who were not the greatest doesn't mean that you will. You might meet some really nice people you enjoy.
I remember my NPD boyfriend coming to dinner at my place. My father was there. Shortly after he arrived, out of the blue, he asked "Did I TELL you I have an IQ of 165?" And in that moment I thought to myself, "Then why were you so stupid to have said something like that?"
Why’s that stupid to say? Maybe your boyfriend was very pleased abt what he feels as an accomplishment. Regardless intelligence is mostly genetic and environmental just like attractiveness no one deserves it or worked for it.
@@Lebronwski Because it's alienating and it makes you sound small to brag about an attribute that is just part of your genetic package. You almost never hear someone with high intelligence talking about how smart they are. It's like going around saying "Did I tell you that I am considered in the top 2% of beautiful people on Earth?" If you won the genetic lottery and got the gift of very high intelligence, that's great. The best way to demonstrate that your IQ has value is to do put it to use doing something good in the world (whatever that is). You look kind of pathetic if you need to bolster your ego by talking about how smart you are.
@@jaelzion well I agree with the first part. But to say intelligent people aren’t braggadocios is just a complete disregard of what intelligence is. Intelligence isn’t necessarily a humble guy.
@@jaelzion something with attractiveness that isn’t the same with intelligence is that it’s a lot harder to notice. Unless the intelligent person has absolutely no social skills there’s no distinguishing.
I'm a Mensa member and I never mention it to anyone anymore (except on the CZcams comments section, it seems). I did when I was younger and I learnt my lesson. People (especially employers) develop high expectations of you and you're setting yourself up for ridicule and failure. Having a high IQ does not exclude you from doing really stupid stuff and making bad decisions. I might be a Mensa member but I'm not particularly driven or ambitious and the expectation is that you are a high level performer in everything you do. People expect you to do extraordinary things. For me, an extraordinary event is getting out of before 10am and achieving the almost impossible feat of having matching socks. Working hard and being successful has nothing to do with IQ - it has to do with a person who is determined to succeed. What I would like to mention with regards to narcissism: My sister-in-law was an administrator for Mensa for a long time. She said she would have to mentally brace herself when it came to testing time because of the hate mail and threats which were emailed to Mensa after people failed the test. Some people take it very seriously. Something which Dr Grande failed to mention were the amount of suicides and self-harm connected to people failing Mensa tests. Take an already depressed person who thinks they can prove to themselves that they are worthy a worth human being by making the Mensa grade - but subsequently fails. I don't think there have been any studies on the Mensa fail/suicide connection but based on what my sister-in-law has told me with regards to the fallout after people failing tests it could be worth looking into in the future sometime. Or maybe I should do the study myself, being Mensa qualified and all! :D
Most doctors, for example, have average intelligence. Intelligence doesn't correlate with education and especially doesn't correlate with having the ability to succeed in the standard education system
@@alaindreaknight7640So can you "do well" in the education system with 0 intelligence? If not,then those 2 variables aren't as independent as you think
@@Asus_sugoma yes. Doctors have doctoral degrees and post doctoral internships. They are the most educated, at the pinnacle. The vast majority of doctors have average intelligence. The major precursor for success at an ivy league school is Grit, not i.q. Look at Angela Duckworth's research. Further, many high i.q. people struggle in school because when they aren't often challenged so when they are they often have poor or no study skills. This has been well documented over and over in research. Mind your shadow.
I’ve never thought about this before. My mom and I both have very high “IQ” but she flaunts it all the time, always talking about it to people and using it as a point to “prove” she is superior to others. Although I get that sometimes it can be hard to relate or get some people to understand ideas, I can’t imagine actually thinking one is superior just because of a ridiculous test. What you are saying about narcissism and using Mensa in this way is spot on. So weird to be hearing this.
@Dori Williams I too have seen people flaunting their IQ. This exposes a deficit in one area: Lack of intuition about other people's reactions. I have Asperger's, and I had to learn, the hard way, things that are intuitively obvious to most people. Call it EQ (Emotional Quotient). I don't have lack of empathy, I just have difficulty matching it to events in real time. My empathy for other people is sometimes excessive because of all the hurt I suffered as a child from 'not fitting in' and not knowing why. Of being able to name as many players on the local football team as anyone else, but having zero interest in what seemed to me a repetitive totally self-limiting zero-sum game with only 4 outcomes (draw, rained off, win, lose) none of which were interesting (well rained off was, coz then attention could switch to something else).
There seems to be an inherent contradiction in organizations like Mensa that celebrate a supposedly innate personality quality (IQ in this case): being proud of one's inclusion in Mensa, especially if one has lobbied for that inclusion, seems to indicate a manifestation of what Carol Dweck calls a "fixed mindset", where the exhibition and protection of the rare laudatory label is the main preoccupation of the person, rather than a love of learning and hunger for knowledge. The latter qualities characterize what Dweck calls a "growth mindset", and it is this mindset that is associated with intellectually fulfilled people, flexible and curious about life, not afraid to make mistakes. So we have a contradiction, where striving to be included in Mensa as a high IQ "certification" indicates a fixed mindset which in turn points to a deficient intellectual life...
@Benjamin Kreft You may be correct, at least in part, but I think that those who enjoy learning new things and thus raise their IQ would probably never even bother to check what their IQ score is, let alone try to get into Mensa: they have too many other interesting things to do, like study new stuff, make mistakes and learning from those mistakes, and being curious.
@Benjamin Kreft Again, you may be correct, although my main point was about trying to get into Mensa and not about casually testing your IQ. From this video I understood that getting into Mensa takes quite a bit of lobbying or political effort, besides just having received a high IQ score. Hypothetically, if almost everyone were administered a same IQ test (e.g., as part of routine school curriculum), and those who scored above a certain percentile received a "Mensa" label, then my argument would be null and void. As it is, that LABEL ITSELF is apparently a prized possession for which one has to fight, which smacks of narcissism. But again, my point is general and not about any particular member of Mensa. So, just in case, no offence :)
I think there is definitely a link between narcissism and iq because narcissism is kind of a fixed view of oneself as this superior entity and iq (as you said) is lauded by those who believe their intelligence is a fixed (and presumably superior) entity.
I was tested as a kid and came out at 139 IQ. I typically only mention this in conversation alongside talking about how dumb I am in all these different areas, in order to illustrate that there are many kinds of intelligence. Maybe some people see it as humble bragging, but I really am an idiot outside of like, math, science, and video games lol
One attraction of Mensa is for young, single men and women to meet and get to know those of the opposite (or same) sex in search of romantic partners commensurate with their own level of intelligence. For women it might even mean finding and marrying someone more likely to make good money. I am 5'10" tall and growing up I was always sticking out like a sore thumb. I wanted to date guys taller than me, to feel that primitive feeling of safety, in order to find someone to marry. Society told me my guy had to be taller than me. So at college age I went to a gathering of a tall people's club to see how it felt. It was wonderful! I only had to look up the whole evening and I was just as enamored of the other women, the older people and the wide range of all kinds of people. It just felt so good to not be self-conscious of my height; I could even wear high heels. So I would think that Mensa members would find a similar comfort in socializing with those more like themselves.
Being a member of a high 'IQ' society does not necessarily equal intelligence. I agree with this analysis Dr. Grande. Having high IQ runs in our family with a mixture of traits. Because of this IQ trait some members of the family have a 'better than thou' attitude. It's unfortunate that this has split and has fractured our family. Thank you Dr. Grande for this video.
Russian Jews tend to be among the largest super intelligent people in the world and don’t really represent many of the most successful people who use intellect to fuel their success, (ex Nobel Laureate or Fields Medal’s).
It is interesting how people who feel inferior in some way so often project that onto others as a 'better than thou' attitude. Scoring highly on an IQ test and being invited as a member of a high IQ society such as Mensa is pretty much the accepted definition of being intelligent. What "intelligence" means to you personally might vary.
I’m a part of Mensa youth in Australia. I’m 15. I got my iq tested as over 155 and because of this (I am not trying to brag don’t get me wrong) I have a lot of trouble making friends. I have deep special interests and the things I like discussing just don’t have any relevance to others or they don’t understand. I go to meeting once or twice a month and within Mensa there is special interest groups, where we can go and have deep discussions about things that actually interest us. It’s really refreshing actually and it has helped me make friends of similar IQ’s. We do not in any way degrade those with a lesser IQ, and they rarely come up in conversation to be honest. We do projects and other things in the meetings and go out for dinners sometimes. I particularly enjoy it but everyone’s experience is different I guess. 🤷🏻♀️ I haven’t had any particular “boosts” because of the memberships, I have had to get a job like anyone else, it’s really just a way for those with high IQs to feel less socially isolated, not trying to make “normal” people feel isolated. You just need to pay $45 AUD a year to keep the badge really and be allowed to go.
You're 15 and you allready needed to get a job? I don't think you should take to heart any gripes people might have over you being in that organization, people gladly moralize over anything involving other people than themselves and it holds zero benefit for the people in question.
You can find people that you can converse with... it just takes time if you have a niche subject or are highly interested in taboo subjects like spirituality/politics. I would try to find others outside of mensa however. Someone can be very intelligent in a subject you like... but not very good at taking tests, remembering numbers, or whatever else the test requires. That is what i've always disliked about iq tests... they don't measure social iq, emotional iq, abstract iq, interpersonal iq, street smarts, empath iq, etc. It's a very niche side of things to stick with any "one" organization. There are a lot of humans you may be missing out on.
I feel that people who brag about their IQ and are unable to talk to people of lesser intelligence are often talking down to people. It's not a good way to win friends or influence people.
@@CC-xn5xi I'm glad I see a positive and emphatic comment here for Molly, as the other people who commented all seemed to know it better, while they're not in the same situation, nor have the same perspective as Molly :/ You just congratulated her :) As a person who struggled a lot with my IQ, I'm always glad when I see a comment like yours. Validating, not dismissive (y)
"Trying to show off your intelligence inside of Mensa is like a exhibitionist among nudists." We are not a group talking only about intelligence with each other. We have these groups inside of Mensa which the people in Mensa can join. A group for hikers, board game players, singles, ... If you think there is no point in joining Mensa, you never were part of it. I don't complain if someone pays multiple times to join us. Most of the money goes to the club treasury.
I joined when I was young, the meetings were dull, the women were plain. A young man can be intellectual but his pursuits remain that of a young man. Now that I'm a bit older I may give it another go.
I had a chemistry teacher in High School that was in Mensa and wouldn't shut up about it. He was also a raging narcissist. You're shocked, I'm sure. I also knew a woman who bragged she had an IQ of 170. Judging by her words and actions over a long period of time, she definitely did _not_ have an IQ of 170. She did, however, also have a raging case of NPD. None of the actually smart people I've ever known have ever mentioned once that they're smart. It's just not necessary. You figure it out pretty quickly just by interacting with them.
I had a housemate who would constantly brag about his IQ and walk around with his Mensa mug. Absolute raging Narcissist and dumb as a post, always had to have some story to out do everyone. I remember I once accidentally burnt myself in the kitchen and he claimed he had no feeling in his left hand so I stood there and watched as he gave himself 3rd degree burns holding a hot pan to prove his point whilst visably wincing.
@m0L3ify I learned to keep a low profile in tedious situations. Useful survival tactic. When dealing with narcissists, it helps. I discovered recently it has a name: Gray Rock.
Exactly my thoughts. Anyone who is speaking about their IQ is suspect to be in the low average to me. It's irrelevant outside of a discussion similar to this where the challenges are being discussed.
Dr. Grande, if you’re ever interested I can walk you through how to remove that white background noise from your audio. It’s fairly easy once you do it a few times (5-10 mins) and the program is free. I love your channel!
"Mensa" - clearly derived from the Latin word for table - has actually been the name for the dining room in Universities in ancient Europe and still is. It has always been a place for introducing, sharing, discussing, challenging and debating ideas, the best and purest way of expressing intelligence. So it has been quite fitting to call this society that way.
Apparently when Mensa was started in 1948 I think it was, it was called MENS the Latin for mind, but they quickly realised that name could be misconstrued, so they changed it to Mensa.
A friend of mine came to me some years ago and asked me if I would go with him to a Mensa testing session, as he wanted to get tested, but was a bit shy of people and wanted some company. This was the first time Mensa was in our city, and there was many people there, so I joined in for the fun of it. I found the test quite easy, and knew that I had all answers right, except for one that I did not understand at all at the moment. That score was later confirmed, and I was invited to join Mensa, while my friend failed to pass. I then began going to Mensa gatherings, but there where few members in my town, and even though most of them where nice people, some of the meetings was just me one or two other guys sitting around in a pub trying to find something to talk about. I also went to a national meeting. It was fun, with a lot of different people. Most of them was humble, easy going and nerdy men and woman with high degree of reflection and empathy. But I also met some people (a small minority, and mostly men) who I suspected was having narsisistic personality disorder. I also noticed that they was not that happy of being in a room full of other Mensa members. Maybe they did not feel unique and special enough in that setting? In the following years, I went to the university for a MA degree and was occupied with studies and work, so I dropped hanging out with other Mensa members, and I also stopped paying the member fee as the member magazin dropped in quality. So, technically, I guess I am no longer a member, and has not been for several years. I seldom mention that i was, but some of my friends like to brag about it on my behalf, and I could bring it up if someone starts talking about Mensa, IQ or IQ-testing. I live in Norway and my impression is that Mensa is a bit unknown here compared to in the US, but those who know the organisation have some mystic respect for the membership. I have noticed that most of the people I enjoy hanging out with also are on a IQ level around the Mensa-limit and abow, and the organizaton has just a small procentage of the high IQ society as members, so there is no need to be a member in order to meet and talk with other intelligent people, and an high IQ is not in it self a proof of intellectuality or wisdom in any way. But it is a cute club with mostly sweet people, who love things like Star Trek, Dungons and Dragons, pub quiz and stuff like that. The original purpose of Mensa was to unite intelligent people from around the world to become an expert organ to give adive to nations in order to prevent a new world war. I think we need a superclub like that, even though the UN try to facilitate exactly that. But maybe Mensa could be even more active in educational politics and public discussions about human resourses and mental health. I am pretty sure that many people with high IQ is having different kinds of obsticals and challenges in both school, job marked and in social life because of their way of thinking and their view on the world around us.
Well gosh, you have to wonder why people often expect an organization like Mensa to have a high purpose, or for its members to see great value in just saying that they're members. Franky, I joined just to broaden my social horizons. I was single and both working and studying full time back then. I didn't seem to meet many people outside my school and work circles. Going to Mensa meetings was a great chance to informally socialize with people from all walks of life in a welcoming environment. I also attended meetings in other countries. I had wonderful experiences traveling to places I've never been before and instantly meeting and connecting with people there. I see Mensa as a nice way of getting a diverse group of people together.
It's been eight months since you left this comment, but I'll leave a reply to help organize my thoughts anyways. It's the fact that it's exclusive in a manner that's crushing to people who don't make the cut. Calling it a "nice way of getting a diverse group of people together" totally dismisses the imposing tyranny of its selection process. And here's the kicker -- you don't have to take the test and be rejected to experience the harsh judgement of this selection process. Just ruminating on the fact of its existence is enough to feel a heavy weight on your mind. That being said, the hatred that may result from thinking over the fact of Mensa's existence is a hatred that doesn't make that much sense, I think. Ignore the harsh judgement of an IQ hierarchy for a second (not you, just the imaginary audience I'm lecturing). How else do you expect people to make friends than to find people that they mesh with? How I hear it put most often is that people can only really be friends with people that are similar to them. If you're an open-minded and intellectual person, you're probably only going to get along with such people. Let's reintroduce IQ into the equation, or at least, the demonstration of what one might perceive as "intelligence". An intelligent person encounters a new concept and makes a brilliant observation or comment regarding the subject. The unintelligent person she's with feels oppressed by the difference between them. The intelligent person, though they may feel the pride of being superior, possibly also feels terrible for making the other person feel that way, and for creating such an uncomfortable situation in the first place with their comment. They may feel the need to suppress their intellect, so as to not hurt other people's feelings. You can't control what kinds of people you're naturally going to be great friends with. What're you going to do, stop crazy-smart people from being friends with who they really want to be friends with? But then the glaring fact still remains for people low on the IQ scale: I am doomed forever to be a squat peasant-like nobody, floating around low-dominance circles. It's a crushing thing to believe about your life. I suspect that it is an untrue assertion, too, because first, I wonder if dumb people are truly "dumb", and I wonder if "IQ" is the absolutely right way to think of the mind. I know, how unintelligent of me, to call the idea of "IQ" into question, and I think "IQ" is encapsulates the truth more than IQ deniers would like. I still can't help but wonder if that's the whole story. One may also quickly realize that the influence or abilities or power your friends may possess or lack don't necessarily make them good or bad friends.
@@tree6835 Why are you so upset? All organizations are exclusive to their topic. Bridge clubs insist you have to play bridge, chess clubs insist you play chess, i belong to a Tai Ji group and oh my god they won't let you in unless you practice tai ji with them! How elitist of them. My son is a member of Mensa and he gets to use his brain to contribute a lot of good things, but I totally claim village idiot. So?
@@Hollylivengood ähmm. But you get that it's different? Like anybody can learn to play a game or Pick up a Hobby but not everybody can get those high i. Q. Scores... And I also dont think that tree was realy upset. Just thinking out loud it seemed to me
@@MrDasfried What are you talking about? So? A lot of people are saying these guys are elitists, but if you stop with the moaning for a minute and just look at it objectively, why is that a terrible thing if their mind is proven, through testing and years of schooling, to be elite anyway? I mean elitism is only wrong if you harbor a delusion of being elite, but if you have a mind that can build a model of humanity's future based on the entire history of mankind that you have memorized page for page of what you've read and seen on the news, that's a fucking elite brain and you should hang with people like that. That was my kid by the way, and he was such an elitist that he spent his free time helping his friends learn to read in the projects we lived in. This is just a place for people who think this way, and not everyone can and some people find that hard to deal with this simple fact of life. Not everybody has to include you, but I promise you can be included somewhere.
I remember my grandmother told me that this lady who was from Mensa had lambasted her for washing a watermelon before cutting into it. She said, "why do you need to wash the watermelon if you are only eating the inside of the watermelon?", to which my grandmother replied, "when you cut into the watermelon, the germs are transferred into the watermelon, and they can still make you sick".
I found your talk incredibly informing and unbiased. I have been a member off and on for over 25 years, and you have addressed several issues most of us like to avoid (the "white elephants" in the room so to speak). My reasons for joining may have been more narcissistic than I would like to admit, but my reasons for staying is the friendship of people who "get" me. I don't feel I got a lot of excess praise as a child, if anything, the opposite. But your insight is very accurate. I enjoyed your talk!
Thanks Dr Grande. I have only ever met one person (that I know of) who was accepted to Mensa. He didn't brag. I was told by his sister, after listening to this presentation, I feel smarter. Thank you.
I love that its just puzzles, word questions, and math questions. It just panders to people who haven't been called smart since highschool/uni and want to re-live the rush of getting a 95% on their finals. A philosophy I've always carried is this; there's a long form written exam that you would fail and kim kardashian would pass with 100%. Everyone spends their time learning something. No one goes home and stares at a brick wall for 16 hours. Even if all you do is watch movies, do that enough with an open mind and you'll be considered a critic. Chances are a decent chunk of mensa members don't have a better understanding of electronics as i do since its my field of work, chances are most mensa members don't know more about aviation and rocketry as me since these are my passions. And of course some will, again we all spend our time on our own things. I didn't do alot of puzzles or reading as a kid, i played with the batteries in my RC plane.
You seem to be confusing intelligence with knowledge of things. I'm not sure why you seem surprised that someone who hasn't studied a subject wouldn't be as good at it as someone who has. Mensans aren't magically born with all the knowledge in the world. Intelligence is the ability to look at what everyone else has looked at and to see what no one else has seen. Mensans are good at APPLYING knowledge. We're good at seeing patterns and solving problems, often in unique ways. Yes, you're going to run rings around a Mensan that doesn't have an electronics background. You're not likely to run rings around one who does.
@@stargazer7644 again, mensa members ARE intelligent, but only in the things they have KNOWLEDGE on, Which is visual puzzles. Intelligence is applied knowledge. Mensa doesnt test knowledge on things like categorization knowledge (botanists, doctors, zoologists, archeologists, etc.), they dont test mechanical knowledge (mechanics, pilots, drivers, etc.), they dont test conceptual knowledge (engineers, architects, artists, writers and directors, etc.), they dont test capacitive knowledge (historians, teachers, lawers, etc.), all mensa tests are visual and mathematics based. So again, mensa is just a club for people who are good at puzzles.
@@a1919akelbo Again, you aren't getting it. Knowledge doesn't cause intelligence. It's the other way around. Mensans don't "have knowledge [of] visual puzzles." Knowing things doesn't make you intelligent. That's why IQ tests go out of their way not to test knowledge. They test your ability to THINK. IQ tests often test logic, pattern recognition, memory, 3D spatial visualization, and reasoning ability because those abilities are highly correlated with intelligence. A completely uneducated person who has never been taught to read or write and has never touched a book can still be a genius. Please don't presume to tell me about what Mensa is, as I've been a member for decades. You haven't.
@@stargazer7644 dude. Intelligence IS applied knowledge, someone with lots of knowledge on calculus isnt the most intelligent person at a biology conference. I agree knowledge doesnt make you intelligent, knowledge makes you intelligent in the correct appliable context. If we both went to the puzzle museum youd have me beat ten out of ten times. But i doubt youd come close to beating me if we both had a gun to our heads and had to solve a problem on battery discharge rates. Thats the problem im trying to explain, Stephen Hawking didnt know anything about biology. You probably dont know much about architecture. Are you smarter than an architect? They have doctorates and went to university longer than you did. Is an architect smarter than you? It ALWAYS depends on context. ALWAYS. Intelligence is applied knowledge, its relative, and its dependent on context. It doesnt matter what your IQ is if you are sat infront of a plane and asked to just "figure it out" you won't. And if you think you could you need to see a psychologist for that.
I generally like your videos and was ready to hate this one (Mensa member). I was very reluctant to join Mensa and ultimately did because I work in an emerging area of the law where the Mensa Foundation is doing some work. What I’ve found is a group of caring, quirky, interesting people. I think you’re right about participation vs qualifying and it’s a good point to make.
Having a high IQ is a gift, just like being born with a kind temperament or athletic ability. And no one has the right to boast about anything that’s been given to them.
where i live, you can participate in mensa's activities without even being a member, you can just contact them and participate, and if you like them and they like you, you can keep participating in that specific activity
As a narcissist who has taken mensa's test when i was 11 yo (1985) and scored pretty high on my first and only test (0.3% of the population according to mensa's count) i can confirm that IQ just shows some ability to understand things and that's it. There are so many more things needed for a person to live a happy life. I went to a couple of mensa meetings because I was young and my parents did all the arrangements, but never paid any subscription since i became an adult. Meetings where boring and the food was bad. I don't know how mensa's tests are now, but back then they were composed of the same type of question throughout the test: a grid of 3x3 with 8 shapes shown and the 9th was blank, with 8 available answers to choose from. There always was some kind of continuity among the 8 shown shapes and some kind of a rationale behind the answer. And yes, it inflated my ego and I used to brag about my score for some time until i realised how lame i sounded.
the one i took last year was very varied. memory, spacial reasoning, vocabulary.. pretty convincing. failed at 129/130 IQ points to get in. I dont like memory tests :D
Beauty and brains are gifts. Most people will be aware of these traits in themselves and others. There is no need to flaunt gifts and talents, this will only make most people feel inferior. What matters most to people is how one makes them feel. If you make them feel inferior or sad, then you are not very smart at all...However since you are intelligent you would know how to and can make others feel good about themselves. On their death beds most people will remember the kind people. Every one can be kind, thats the really smart thing to do. So be kind.
But why is it that people are not allowed to fully emerge themselves in their 'gifts'? Why is it the 'gifted' individuals responsibility to make themselves 'less' just to make others feel less insecure? That seems like such a waste of something beautiful. Wether that is intelligence, appearance, a certain sport, art, and so on. Everyone are good at different things. Instead of pulling down people who are exceptional in specific areas, everyone should strive to be the best version of themselves - and appreciate their own gifts, as well as others. Of course bragging is never charming, but it should not be seen as wrong to take pride in what you are good at, and enjoy doing. People often seem to think that you can't be intelligent, and a good person. It is as if, the more exceptional someone is, the more we are looking to tear them down, because we feel inadequate about ourselves. Not because we can't be intelligent, but because we don't have the mental energy to improve ourselves, or don't believe it is possible. To me, that way of thinking just seems petty and insecure. A society rise by lifting each other; the more strong people become, the more they can help others be strong, and contribute with valuable abilities in society. Not by tearing down excellence or forcing people with various different gifts to let them waste away.
At age 66 I had a two-day series of testing at a university psychology department when I was worried about dementia and also about whether or not I had Asperger's syndrome. I was referred by a neurologist. It turned out to be an IQ test (don't know which kind) which disappointed me as I was worried about my forgetfulness and confusion, not my intelligence. My overall score was quite high, though, just under that 130 point, which was a surprise because I always thought I was average or less. I wish I had had this earlier in my life; it would have boosted my lagging confidence. The big difference was that Medicare covered the cost of all this; otherwise I could never have afforded it. Following this I had an assessment at a private psychologist's practice to determine High Functioning Autism which was confirmed. But I still worried about my failing mind so I thought it was all too little, too late and there was nothing to do about my poorly functioning brain. I was told that the IQ test would be a great baseline to help determine future decline if it were to happen so I guess it was worth it.
Hello, I am also on the spectrum, I have been diagnosed as gifted with aspergers. I have been going to therapy from childhood. My therapist a cognitive specialist diagnosed me as gifted with 2e. I want to ask as an older neurodivergent how has life heen for you?.
@@ritvicpaarekh6963 I got no help or recognition in childhood or adulthood until 2015; no one had even heard of autism or Asperger's. I just had to use my intelligence, which I thought I did not have much of, with great diligence to figure things out and deal with depression most of my years. I identify primarily as a survivor; I simply put all my energy into figuring it out, figuring it out, figuring it out. I didn't have any expectation that life would be easy. Turned out that I discovered my talents and found a way to apply them that was valuable to people in that field (and without a college education). I think the success in that and my life was and still is the willingness to endure, to move forward, to keep trying. To survive.
I never knew what the range is, but apparently I would qualify. But as Groucho Marx said, "I would never want to be a part of a group who would accept me as a member"! Ha!
My grandfather was invited but didn't go. He preferred fishing, hunting, and playing piano. I can't imagine him sitting in a room, talking to others people and debating on abstracts facts for the sake of showing off how intelligent you are. ( that how he imagined that group ) he liked so mutch to be outside in nature. Here, in the wood with his friends, he was happy. When I was older, he bring me with them and it was the greatest time of my life. I didn't know he was so knowledgeable before that. For me, he was my grandfather. That's it.
In the US, when I was in elementary school, the school district psychologist would measure your IQ. If you scored above a certain number, you could be enrolled in the exceptionally gifted program. Many students in that IQ range, had less than average experiences socializing with peers during the years that others made friends more easily. Some of us grew up with high academic expectations and low popularity with peers. As adults, we find some common fallout. I found that MENSA in a populous area,offers groups which participated numerous activities. I have had trouble in everyday groups and thought that joining MENSA might give me more comfortable ways to pursue hobbies because we would share certain characteristics.
There are many forms of intelligence which exceed the assessment capabilities of I.Q. testing. I've never met a person from whom I could not learn something.
Then you are pretty stupid and ignorant because most people are dumb and boring. So you either can't learn anything from them or not interested in learning them at all.
@@GodFormHermet Just curious -- Why remark in the nasty way you chose? Was there something bugging you, so you took it out on the internet by calling people derogatory names? Seriously ... I'm curious about what provoked you to use the descriptives: stupid, ignorant, dull & boring?
Highly intelligent people really don’t ever seem to have terrible lives. They may not all be wildly successful, but they’re busy, comfortable and enjoy their lives.
I am a Mensan. Iike most Mensans, I don't tell people that I am a member. Like most Mensans, I did not actively seeking membership. I joined out curiosity when I read that the required ,GRE score was lower than mine. It is a social organization, so we use it to socialize. Asbeger Syndrome people are overrepresented, and Mensa is a great social outlet for some of them.
Well said, Jerry. It is a social organization, and I suspect there are many former members, like myself, who haven't renewed their membership due to a lack of interest to socialize. Like you, I don't tell people that I joined Mensa (last renewal was two years ago), in fact, I ask my wife not to mention it to people. After watching this video, I get the sense the speaker tries to de-legitimize Mensa's qualifications because of the possible scenarios of testing multiple times to get in, or forging a certifying letter. While this may occur, it seems likely to be a small number and a few exceptions do not render the 98% percentile requirement "meaningless". I think we need more encouragement for people to develop their strengths, including intelligence, and Mensa is a great way to do that.
Yes, Dr. Grande, I have heard people brag about their high IQ and I found that they generally lacked humility. To make matters worse they would correct others during casual conversation. It’s a “turn off”.
Being a black woman, if I run into someone who says that black people are ENTER STEREOTYPE HERE, I present myself as an individual that goes against their negative stereotypes, including my intelligence and accomplishments.
Hi, Dr. Grande: I watched this video (Mensa & Narcissism), with great interest. I've watched quite a few of your other videos, as well. But, at the conclusion of this particular one, I couldn't help but think/say, "What a beautiful person he (you, Dr. Grande) is."
No, it’s about having a similar vibe. It’s about liking to be informed, learn new things and have great conversations. A lot are somewhat eccentric, so what? It’s a safe space...It’s not about sex or drinking or hustling another dime.... Yes, the activities are the reason. They are nice people.
I am a member of Mensa, and really never even think about it. I guess I know that I am smart enough to know that I have many, many unanswered questions and that there are a hell of a lot of people smarter than I am.
I always saw Mensa folks as those who were smart but the last kid picked on a team. Mensa was a means to be the big fish in a small pond. You’re correct about not being in the top 2%: I took a sample test 40 years ago and qualified to take their test and I’m only above average, nowhere near genius level. Boasting means you’ve defined your life in that narrow scope. Impressive is the person who knows but doesn’t need to brag, others can see it.
I had thought of joining. I'm one to want in depth detailed discussion on topics that bore anyone I know. I don't have a large circle and I don't have access to academics and others who would enjoy these drawn out discussions of varied topics. I'm often stuck not having those satisfying discussions at all or when I do it's a one of. It's hard to find people who will enjoy that. Being naturally talented at sports or music and joining groups that share this characteristic is not seen as elitist. Yet many are born with strong abilities or a fine vocal apparatus. Why on earth would being born with the ability to solve puzzles or be interested in discussing, for hours on end, the nebulous zone where AI meets philosophy be more narcissistic then jamming with your musical group? Is a good singer being narcissistic when she belts out a high note that few humans have cords for? I am sad to see that you assume readily and easily what people who want to be in these groups think and feel and further that we can easily meet people who share our interests.
It’s actually very true. I think because it’s easy to get deluded by ones own intelligence into believing one is more competent than one really is is what may fuel the problem. I think if you’re genuinely intelligent and just want to have a circle of likeminded individuals just to have company with people who can understand you, there’s nothing wrong with that at all. It’s about humility and satisfying that individual social need.
I have an example🙋🏻♀️. My mom moved recently and gave me bins of old papers from when my sister and I were in school. In there, I found some testing my sister went through in kindergarten. She tested in the 99.9th percentile in reading, 99.7 in math. I was fairly shocked- I knew she was smart, but wow. I called her and told her. Her boyfriend was there at the time and he seemed to be fairly intrigued by my discovery. Point is, telling your significant other might make them more attracted to you, if you're smooth in your presentation. 🤷🏻♀️
I once took a preliminary Mensa test out of curiosity, but afterwards when I had the chance to take a more in depth one to see where in the Top 2% I'd be, I declined because even as a teenager the idea of spending money to be able to claim you're a genius and go attend circle jerks with other geniuses seemed incredibly stupid. I think Mensa teaches us that even the smartest people are capable of doing dumb things.
The main perk of Mensa is you can find a group to play board games and everyone understand the rules immediately.
Mensa would probably accept me because I devised a genius method that proves I'm a slow learner.
@@taimurahmed1190 sounds interesting can you explain.
My intellect is somewhat dull but I'm sneaky as hell and I'm pretty sure I'd be able to cheat. Get the stupid idiots to start playing for money and clean out bigly.
Good joke.
For youth, Mensa has two honor societies both with honor cords and sashes and all that other junk you decorate the graduation robes with. We signed up for the discounts.
My older brother has a high IQ and he was a straight A student in school. Something always bothered me about the attention he got: it fed his ego. He was also very good looking, which made him have a narcissistic personality. He did well in his studies until he faced minor set backs for the first time in his life when he was in the university. He never tried to ask for help, moreover he ran away from his problems which gradually got worse and he eventually left the university without telling anyone in the family at the time. It's been 20 years and he rarely got out of the house since then. He reminds me of Chuck from Better Call Saul, minus being a lawyer.
I learned that IQ can't go far without a mature personality and a direction. If the person is satisfied with IQ alone, then they won't feel the need to accomplish anything. Also, high IQ doesn't mean everything in life comes easily. Parents who have smart kids should not take intelligence for granted, they should invest in their personalities.
Thank you for the informative video.
Lol rip Darth Chuck McGill
One of the things they have discovered is that high-talent people don't tend to persevere well and thus under-achieve. Since stuff that is difficult for average people comes easy to them, they never learn to work hard to accomplish things and are quickly discouraged at the first sign of difficulty. That's why they now tell parents and teacher to praise students for the effort they put into things, the specifics of "You really picked out which data was relevant," etc., and to NEVER praise a child for being smart.
Sounds like you were always jealous as a child, and seem now to be reveling (and broadcasting) in his difficulties.
@@thesisypheanjournal1271 who is "they" ? wheres the research for that ?
Jeremy Kenny he’s broadcasting the effects of lack of adversity and good fortune brought his brother into narcism and made him struggle in the world past public school. Like damn you’re making a big assumption off of absolutely nothing besides trying to be an asshole.
I took the Mensa test purely out of curiosity to see what my IQ was. I passed and was invited to join. For me this was an amazing boost for my self-esteem. At school I did really badly because I was so isolated and miserable. I was considered stupid by my teachers and probably by my peers as well. I think having a high intelligence can make you feel very alone and frightened because you over-think everything. Now I go to Mensa meetings regularly and thoroughly enjoy them. I don't know what high intelligence is, but I know that at Mensa I can talk to anyone about any subject no matter how deep or scientific it is, and know that the person I am talking to will fully understand what I am saying, though they may not agree. I love it when you talk to someone really bright: you can both talk really fast and can jump rapidly from point to point without having to wade laboriously through all the reasoning behind the argument because you know they know it anyway. This isn't true with talking to anybody down the pub. Mensa certainly is elitist, but so is being in any specialist club with people who are good at something, such as playing football, or acting, or studying mathematics, or anything. Mensa doesn't pretend to have any purpose or agenda, it is just a social club, and it's fun.
High Intelligence is basically...Wisdom.
@@NuLiForm it 100% is not
@@daniellemiranda852 ok 🤣
tha's not true lad.
@@NuLiForm
Not even a little bit.
My daughter did it for the challenging test, for fun! She scored high and got in. She now receives discounts on computers, car insurance and more. Shes definitely not narcissistic. She doesn't even tell anyone about it because of videos like this.
Yes. The discounts are awesome. Great perk of Mensa. I don’t think the other societies offer. I’m in Mensa and the membership came in handy on my most recent trip. 🙏🏽
Why is it ok to give privileges to people like that? 🤦 Again our society makes life easier to those, who already have it easier - more intelligent, or richer folks, instead of helping marginalised people. Having high IQ is not an achievement, one doesn't control whether they have the right genes or get proper nutrition at first few years of life
@@KateeAngel she paid to be in mensa, it's not really "free discounts". think of it as a club. They are like minded people that enjoy each other's company and conversations. There's alot more "free stuff" for people that are under privileged.
@@KateeAngel On the contrary, too high an iq is a handicap in society.
@@rolandogarciaiii6458 really? How many different perks does one get? (Little ol 135 here 😊) ✅ I want to get in just to PROVE i know what I I am Talking about… not in a tyrant way, but in a “I know what I am talking about to HELP you “ way… that’s all! ✅
I think I could get into Mensa. I took a 30-second online quiz that stated I'm a genius.
But your IQ can certainly get you into Scientology.
That’s on par with how MENSA operates
@@thecheese4255 Your ignorance is showing.
Rebecca Donaldson
P!ss off, scold
What is your point? Do you even have one?
Debbie Rogers
Actually I’m not being sarcastic
MENSA promotes a non scientific survey a la Cosmopolitan magazine (the heady feminist periodical that apparently has a mandate to publish a monthly article on how to give the best BJ... but I digress as that’s not MENSA’s fault... as far as I know) that squats all over numerous longitudinal studies (i.e., actual science) to promote a “tortured artist/genius” narrative
I’m not sure what the bee in Ms. Donaldson’s bonnet is
Maybe she’s a MENSA member that participated in that junk “science”
I feel like everyone likes to think they're really clever
Except smart people
No one thinks they are stupid
Actually, exceptionally intelligent people will realize how little they really know and typically be able to admit it.
@@mgal6234 That is true but, as i said no one thinks they are stupid everyone else is hehe
1111111111 2222222222 LOL true! 😬
I believe it's a thing about "being in the right room". Confucius said: "If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room". Being highly intelligent, it's not easy to find people on your level or higher than you, but these are the people you should want to associate with to grow and develop yourself.
Especially if you take it seriously, and intelligence is the only metric you value
Exactly.
@@shotarodeniet3301 Very short sighted comment. Tell me, where in normal life would you find a room full other people who at least have the base qualification for being smart? I know IQ doesn't result in being smart and there some people who are smart but have an IQ lower than 130, but being intelligent might actually help, even if some people you find there might be just narcissist assholes. We had a similar club when I was at elementary school, it was very good to connect with kids with similar intelligence back then, while most where just playing cowboys and princess, we could discuss nuclear power and other (for us) interesting stuff.
So you can be even better than everyone else I suppose?
@Ricky Moore I'm wondering what you mean by "midwit"; when I looked for definitions, they tend to say someone in IQ ranges 105-120 who perceive themselves as smarter and more authoritative than they are. The way you said "130 and 150 are different" makes me think you mean "midwit" as someone who is between major percentiles(?); i.e, between 99.9 and 99.999 or between 90 and 99.9, etc. Is that what you mean? Because I'm wondering how that works... are "midwits" more likely to be intellectually dishonest in your opinion, or is their "wit" overshadowed by their "mid"-ness?
Tl;dr - I'm wondering what a "midwit" is in this case, and why it is you "don't trust midwits"
Yo! Member of Mensa here, I don’t know much about other members but this is how I feel. Also English is my third language so please excuse my phrasing, thank you!
Mensa membership for me isn’t a title of power or any kind of certificate that I’m better than other people. I am proud of it, I really am but more in the sense of like owning a rare collectible or something, as the collectible itself doesn’t enhance the collector’s own status. I’m not stupid and I’m not super smart either, but I’m smart enough to know that being smart alone is not enough and never will be. It won’t bring you happiness, it won’t bring you love, it won’t bring you success nor even satisfaction.
Smartness is like a mirror, everyone has one. It lets you see your blind spots, it gives you a clearer view of the world. But a lot of people just ends up admiring their own reflection instead, never utilizing the mirror to its fullest potential. And the thing about your own reflection, is that the closer you lean into it, the larger it becomes, and the larger it becomes, the less behind you will actually see. So take a step back, allow your own image shrink a bit, and you’ll begin to notice the blind spots that your ego has covered up slowly revealing themselves. When that happens, face them and you’ll grow into a better person.
I initially joined Mensa in the hopes of getting rid of my insecurities, to prove that I’m not stupid or anything. I took the test knowing fully well that I’m going to be accepted and when I eventually did, I proved nothing other than that I’m insecure enough to seek external reassurance and foolish enough to take a test I know I would do well at. I really don’t know what else to say, other than that you shouldn’t worry about the whole Mensa thing, it’s not that secretive, not that exclusive and not that elite as you might think. It is hella fun to romanticize about it but realistically, joining Mensa is like joining any other clubs, it is made up of people just like you, not of divine beings :D
Thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts
@@nagatosmith1158 you’re welcome man! :)
Funny thing is, in Spanish “mensa/menso” means “dumb”.
yeah except its Mensa which in latin means round table they werent going for spanish
@@LewisMcS I know that. I´m just saying that for Spanish speakers, it sounds funny.
I know. Ironic right? I’ve also explained to Mexicans, what the name of their multi national bakery, Bimbo, means.
@G Fisher I did know it. You know why? Because I speak Spanish, and table is "mesa", which comes from the latin "mensa". I´m an etymology aficionado.
In what country? Cuz where I'm from we dont use that word like that
A good friend of mine joined Mensa, he has unfortunately passed away from a motorcycle accident. He was a funny, extremely kind, down to earth, nerdy guy. He said he joined just for the fun of it and was definitely the type to do such things for the fun of it. He was an extremely intelligent man and have no doubt he legitimately passed whatever tests that have to be taken to be invited to join. Off topi, I still miss him all the time, he was a wonderful person and one of the best people I’ve ever had the pleasure to meet and have in my life.
Beautifully written! And today another person thought about your lost friend because you chose to write about him a year ago. Thanks!
@@robertbigler7743 I just did now!
The Egyptians believed we die two deaths one of the flesh and a second the last time our name is spoken. Your kind words have honored your friend.
Well said, sorry about your friend, but it's good that u remember him so well, losing people sucks....the stories I could tell, but yeah, honoring someone's memory like this, that's good....if people do that for us when we're gone....I think it means we lived a good life.
He seems like Me, and about his life, how old was he* when he left*?
You can't be too rich or too good-looking, people will gravitate to you, even straight people of your gender. But you can be "too smart" - that makes many people feel uncomfortable. That's why Mensa exists
i agree.
no, people aren't uncomfortable of you being "too smart". they are just put off by your underdeveloped social skills. I know someone who's well on his way to an ivy league university, and he's super chill, nonjudgmental, and just a pleasure to talk to
trust me: people love hanging out with people who are smarter than them. so long as they're not pricks. after all, we're all watching vidoes made by a guy who is vastly more educated than most of us here. do you think we're all uncomfortable?
@J Boss if you're really reading your own comment and thinking "yeah, the reason i can't relate to people is because i'm too smart. there's no way there could be an error in the way i'm behaving or communicating" then can you really be as smart as you tell everybody you are?
ask yourself this: why is it so important that the reason for your alienation from society is that you're "too smart for them"? wouldn't it be better to believe you're just fucking it up, since that would leave you with something you could actually change or improve upon?
also as an aside, you've made several spelling errors in your statement. i'm not really a stickler, but it seems like a super smart person who's so intelligent that people beneath them are too dull and ignorant to appreciate their conversation would effortlessly spell every word correctly, especially considering the universality of spellcheck. one mistake could be a keyboard error. but "payed to learn"? i point this out not to be cruel, but to illustrate that people's estimation of both their own intelligence and the actual value that it plays in their life are both greatly inflated, generally speaking. they'd be happier if they disabused themselves of the notion that their unique and beautiful intelligence is a burden that forever marks them as apart and alien from the drooling, imbecilic masses. they wound themselves.
@J Boss i've clearly upset you, which is honestly not what i was trying to do. don't worry: i'm probably wrong about everything i said. probably.
Maybe some members just want a community; some people they can talk to. Sometimes it's hard to find a good conversation.
Consider the one constant in every conversation: you. This is pure speculation but maybe you're looking for someone _else_ to make a conversation interesting, when you could strive to _make interesting conversation_ instead. If you can do that, almost everyone can give you a good conversation.
Thanks for the advice person I have never met 🙄
@@francesbell9465 Now I'm pretty sure I'm right. Have fun~
@@THEFRISKIESTDINGO Yeah you got me! I give up. Please can you give me some career and relationship advice now? Without your insight, where would I be?! :D
@@francesbell9465 You sound like a "nice girl."
Having high IQ can be incredibly isolating. Maybe Mensa is place where High IQ people feel less isolated?
Stop focusing on differences and focus on similarities and alienation diminishes.
Apjooz your heart’s in the right place, but I think you severely underestimated the nastiness within people. They alienate those who are different than them, especially if they have something (like intelligence) that makes the rest of the group feel inferior
You are asking the right question.
I joined Mensa in 2008. I was only a member for a year and did not renew my dues. OF THE PEOPLE I MET, I would say most of them joined for the reason you've mentioned.
It seems to me that Mensa is easy to shit on because no one really knows what goes on in the groups. They're usually just playing board games and working on some sort of puzzle. They're not shit-talking the "plebs." It's harmless and picking on them now is just like picking on the nerds in school: cowardly.
I think university clubs are a good place to go to if you want to hang out with other smart people.
MENSA? Pfff ... I got Hermione Granger on a Hogwarts quiz
My husband remarks often how intelligent I am. I asked how he knows this. His reply, honest, "Because you like me." Wow.
I joined Mensa, after recently discovering I was highly gifted, as a way to gain inspiration and better relate to people who may have similar experiences with development as I. I have been an underachiever most of my life due to ADHD, and with it beginning to be under control, I feel like a whole new world is opening up to me.
Some great points. Ultimately, it's an high IQ society, not a high wisdom society. I think that accounts for a lot of the naivety.
So ... Low Iq people are less "naive" ? You should write a paper on that.
@Lava Node aaaw shucks 😌
@@yousernameish He stated that wisdom and intelligence is bijective, so what's the point in your question?
@Gary Allen Certain parts of the USA are worse then others on that score.
Yep
I used to obsess about IQ because I have pretty much always had a low self esteem and since I seem to have a fairly good IQ, I desperately wanted some way to try to lift up my self esteem to say to myself "ok you now know that you're good in this way", to counterweight the bundle of massive insecurities I had/have - social anxiety being the big one. Even though I don't quite qualify to be a member of MENSA, it still gave me some peace of mind and a bit of confidence and "laid backness" to know that my IQ is "up there in the ball park", even though it doesn't help much in the grand scheme of things and my life isn't exactly blessed by doing well in that regard. It's a double edged sword and I guess I use the wrong edge to badger myself most of the time, instead of being happy.
My two cents...find yourself some really good hobby/hobbies you can work on. It helps your levels of confidence greatly and can give you good subjects of conversation or introduce you to different people who share your interests. IQ can only start you off so far before your ego overinflates and you plummet. IQ isn't multifaceted and not 100% reliable, nor will it shill you any true happiness or true confidence. 😊
@@dont_harsh_my_mellow Thanks :). Yeah I have at least one hobby, but due to my social anxiety it takes place behind a computer screen (gaming). I guess it does give me confidence in a gaming context. Just getting older also passively adds a bit of confidence. And yeah IQ is a tool so to speak. Not something that necessarily brings happiness.
Cnith You are already more intelligent than most people because you know your IQ will not help you in life, as you stated that life wouldn’t be blessed in that regard and it may not bring you happiness.
So relatable! Like you, I also have a bit of social anxiety, and have dealt with bullying and peer rejection a lot in my life. But hey, at least I have a high IQ, so I'm good at something...apparently. Except IQ is absolutely meaningless at the end of the day.
You are aware that the average Physics/Mathematics/Philosophy major in an average university would qualify for Mensa, right? Being the top 10%(120 on 15 SD) or the top 5% (125 on 15 SD) might seem nice, but it's nothing impressive really. And it's not true that 120 is the ceiling of utility. It is true for creative fluency and the dating scene, but much like height, even though for some it's enough to reach the cookie jar, you still can't play basketball until you're some sort of anomaly. If you doubt my sources, then ask me for them.
BTW the average IQ of a physics major on Stanford is about in the mid 150's, which is about the rarity of one in 8k.
I'm in Mensa. The times I've told people about my IQ it's been in the context of talking about my childhood since I didn't fit in with kids my age so the school had me tested. A high enough intelligence can really make you feel like an outcast, especially as a child and that's a challenge many people don't realize. I joined hoping to find friends and other people with similar experiences to mine and found a really cool set of people that give me a sense of belonging and share that childhood experience.
I don't advertise that I'm in Mensa but it's not like it's Fight Club, I tell people about it sometimes when I mention that I was hanging out with mensan friends or like any other social activity I might do. We don't sit around talking philosophy but sometimes philosophy topics can come up if they are connected to whatever we are talking about. No one there will consider it dense or weird if you mention a topic like that and most will want to learn.
There are a couple of narcissistic people there but they are few and far between, most mensans are pretty cool and nice people. Since it has rules about tolerance and respect it also feels like pretty safe environment to meet new people.
you know that happens to a lot of people... high IQ or not?
@@vittocrazi they become Hitler?
Have you ever had a group discussion about The Drama of the Gifted Child?
@@barrydworak the f?
@@vittocrazi isn't it an Internet axiom that any heated debate that goes on long enough will eventually end in one party calling the other one Hitler (or equivalent)?
Might as well cut to the chase. 😎
Seriously though, many people will feel like outcasts at some point, especially when young. And I won't begrudge the A students a support group. Sharing experiences with other people, hopefully good people, shouldn't be open only to people who have hit "rock bottom" and joined a 12-step program.
Intentions matter with these things, and it sounds like the OP's intentions were and are good ones. 🙂
My wife and I once moved to a large metropolitan area where we knew no one. I hooked up with Mensa to find interesting people to talk to. Yes, there are some members whose big thing in life is their qualifying for Mensa. There a few who could qualify for P.I.T.A. But I found the intelligent conversation I was looking for. I'm still a member n years later and have found the people interesting and fun to be around, well worth the
You don’t need IQ scores anymore. That’s what Rick and Morty is for
I spotted the narcissist 😂
r/whoosh
Jenifer Joseph Looks like you missed my joke as well. Though your “whoosh” proves my point I think!
It doesn’t. You’re actually dumb. Quit the spin control and move on.
@@jeniferjoseph9200 you lost this one, sorry.
I know a dentist who wears a gold chain with his IQ number in gold hanging from it. Everyone laughs at him behind his back.
Does it have just the number or does it include that its iq too
is it like "43" or "IQ43"
no way that is real
That's a lie
I know someone who makes dumb comments about dentists. Everyone calls them a liar behind their back...
@@paulklee5790 Found the dentist
Mensa is a way to find other people to have a conversation with that’s not just about women or cars. It does get lonely when you know you are different to other people. In terms of coming across narcissistic, a lot of these people have already been pigeon holed as that due to the way they think. I signed up for it as a way to quantify why I’m always so awkward/ weird in conversations. But being a member definitely can have its benefits. It’s surprising how quickly you can get promotions just by letting your boss know. At the end of the day it’s no different than being in the first 11 at the local football club. Exclusivity is what makes it desirable. Yes it is narcissistic. But that doesn’t make the members narcissists.
Are you so disconnected from reality that you seriously think thats only what people talk about? Also of course the members are narcisistic when their only personality trait is that they joined a group for smarties.
I'm a Native American Asperger geek that has a hobby of learning languages and history - especially historic languages. I also do blacksmithing and wood working. I'm pretty odd. I'm also very spiritual and have a vast knowledge of world religions. I have no problem talking about women or cars. The internet has helped people like me find other people like me. The problem with Mensa, as I've had very bad experience with some of its members, is that it is a egotistical and narcissistic echo chamber - like social media, but worse because it was founded for the very principle of imagining yourself separate from and above others.
Really? I always thought the potential appeal might be to access a better dating pool. This might be more the case for women, though. Looks seems weigh much higher for men than intelligence.
@@sandels5805
- doesn't understand the meaning of obvious exaggerations to send the message across
- generalizes the members and downplays the organization
- exaggerates in the wrong way just to support the generalization
I guess we found the narcisSist who didn't get in
@@imbored4615 The message is that people who aren't in Mensa aren't interesting to talk to. It's the nth exhibit of how people in Mensa are, in fact, narcissistic. Carry on with your coping, though.
I joined our local chapter of Mensa because I thought I'd meet a secret society of fiendishly clever (and painfully attractive) people. I took their test and was accepted though they would not tell me my actual score. What I found in the organization was a collection of elderly and socially awkward people that I didn't have anything in common with. Most were more curious and interesting than the average person but not what I would consider razor sharp. I also noticed many of them didn't have a college education. That baffled me at first but I eventually concluded that they were looking for confirmation that they were bright after being told by the job market they weren't as "useful" as people with degrees. I tried to get the chapter involved in tutoring disadvantaged kids in math and reading through Partners In Education but that was a flop. I found interesting speakers for our gatherings but attendance never grew. I finally quit paying the membership fee and went inactive after a couple of years. I get more out of my local model building club than I ever did out of our local Mensa.
EDIT: Patty's game night was fun. I attended (and lost) many of those.
Harder than heck to stir up movement in a useful direction.
Smart people realize that college doesn't necessarily lead to success in life.
Halo effect in action
Interesting observations. It seems that most intelligent people with degrees are busy using their intelligence, for example, in the field they work in or their hobbies.
@@natalielynn2203 Although your comment is true, it is not a smart conclusion. For example, driving while intoxicated does not necessarily lead to an accident. Nevertheless, I would not recommend it. Smart people mostly want to learn and college is one way to learn. Each case is different, and Bill Gates is OK without college, but in most cases, it is better to get college education.
Dr. Grande, if you ever started an elite society of psychologically informed, engaged individuals who value an evidence based researched approach, I would totally join! ;)
that's right here, on his channel!
We even have a band: Delusions of Grandeur.
Youre already here, the youtube comment section!
Miss E I would agree but it makes much more interesting dialogue (see what I did there?) when the group is filled with people who don’t all agree!
As can be evidenced from the comments, "elite society of psychologically informed, engaged" mavens abound.
When I joined the military I scored a 99 on the ASVAB. All the guys in bootcamp and, less often, later talked about the test and shared their scores but I kindof knew I shouldn't say mine, especially when someone would brag about their 85 or something. Still, eventually they asked me and I said the truth. The conversations that go this way always proceed as follows:
1. People call bullshit
2. More insightful people grow quiet as they read my face and determine I am not lying.
3. A lull occurs as I don't know what to say and simply bask in their attention.
4. The conversation shifts to "yeah well the test is just a number anyway lol"
well. thats just how humans are, i guess.
anyway bro I'm looking to go into the air force how the shit did you get a 99? got any advice? looking for that sweet sweet software engineer job.
@@glassesspokesperson6824 I didn't study or anything, studying will bring you up a couple points. Make sure you can do algebra and remember the basic formulas from your SATs or you'll give up free points on the math section. Its an IQ test though, its designed to be nigh impossible to study for (though you can eek out a few points on it).
@@MagnificentMelkior ah alright. Much obliged. Though, like you said, its meant as an iq test I still think its pretty impressive you got a 99.
nothing wrong with being average. U can read too much in a point or two of IQ .
I got a 98, but on my test, somehow the last digit of my phone number didn't come through - a one. Eventually I got a call from some department of the military, and the dude was so proud he figured out to just dial all the possible numbers for the last digit and only had to call 4 numbers before he got me. 4 numbers? to guess "1"? Anyway, wound up not enlisting.
My sister always tests super high on IQ tests. She participated in every awards program in school and was enrolled in all the accelerated academic courses at school. Until she dropped out and threw her future away through bad decisions. I always score only the barest whisker above the median, but I learned how to study, did acceptably in school, and I've enjoyed a modest amount of career success. To this day, my sister feels that she is entitled to more than she has achieved. In summary: a high IQ might open some doors, but it won't make life easier on the other side of them.
High IQ is always a double-edged sword. Often the most tormented individuals are very high IQ ppl.
@@johnnytsunami4186 true, high IQ is linked to mental disorders. They are generally also more sensitive.
@@tzumer2534 Yes, high IQ children are especially sensitive. There's also a reason we have the saying: "There's a fine line between genius and insanity." (Because it's true: High IQ individuals often suffer from mental illness).
I find that 110 IQ represents a high probability of success in business. Intelligence that doesn't over-complicate and analyse everything TOO MUCH. Fundamentals, routines, and checking off your goals can sometimes be a problem with high IQ.
There's a huge difference between intelligence and wisdom, as you so aptly point out:)
I joined mensa for the group buying power. I expected travel discounts, cheaper car insurance, and low credit card interest rates. They offered "deals", but nothing I could not get without mensa, so I let my membership lapse without going to any meetups.
The only time I can think it appropriate to discuss my high standardized test scores is when I am trying to stress to my younger relatives that being "smart" is overrated. I had a college roomate who told me he scored little more than half what I did on the SAT (he was a transfer from junior college) and he was one of the most academically successful people I knew, much more successful than me. Through hard work and excellent time management, he earned a full scholarship, a black belt in taekwando and eventually got a Phd too.
Keep coming back!
It seems like in most cases, people who are really intelligent would not need to explain that directly, because having a large vocabulary or extensive knowledge tends to speak for itself.
Not exactly, there are alot of highly intelligent people who disregard a big vocabulary to focus their intelligence on something more important to them but with that being said I guess you could say that same person could acquire a bigger vocabulary faster than a person with a lower iq if they wanted to. Vocabulary is a skill just like many other things, spelling words incorrectly doesn't make you stupid but most people who do spell things incorrectly are usually stupid. I know it sounds weird kinda like how most murderers are psychopaths but not all psychopaths are murderers. I hope you get the point I'm trying to make but I do have a friend that likes to overuse big words to feel superior to others and he claims that isn't the case but when those words aren't needed when speaking to regular everday normal people it just proves my assessment even further.
The most intelligent person in the world could be someone that grew up in an illiterate farming community. He/she can barely speak the language of their country but can probably understand mathematics like you wouldn't believe
John Dee my grandfather didn’t finished 2nd grade, couldn’t read very well.
But he went on to build a real estate empire worth $150 million by the time he passed away. Intelligence shows in different ways.
@Llama Treee I think it means something, just not everything.
@Llama Treee If you are doing it just to sound smart, I agree. Actually using big words when other people don't understand them is stupid because you are not communicating well.
Clubs don't have to "contribute to society" or "contibute to the greater good".
Chess clubs don't do it, golf clubs don't do it, book clubs don't do it, so why should high IQ societies do it?
They bring joy to their members, that's it.
Any other club is devoted to a certain hobby or interest. Being smart is not a hobby or interest. You are comparing apples and oranges here. Joining Mensa is like joining the ‘beautiful people’s club’... it’s an elitist group. So this is where accomplishments come in. If a group of really smart people were getting together to share ideas and actually change the world, then it would be an actual club and not a narcissists playground.
@@cameronfielder4955 Mensa is about identifying, fostering and encouraging research on intelligence.
People join Mensa to meet people, share ideas and get stimulated. Some do for ego, fine, they pay and we almost never see them!
I have organized math problem solving sessions and proctored tests for the organisation.
Also, Mensa has also open events.
As in every clubs, there are jerks; That simply shows Mensa is diversified.
Cameron Fielder Someone’s salty
Christian Baune worst $70 dollars ever spent. it doesnt encourage research on intelligence, and you dont have to be in mensa to figure that out.
@@sjuvanet That sure tat relying on hearsay and public opinion is the best metric.
From which chapter were you ? Which activities did you do ? Did you participate in the challenges ? How many articles did you share in the internal magazine ? Did you try mensa select games ? In how many GIS were you active ? Did you make use of SIGHT service ?
Being a Mensa member or not, we are ALL looking for validation. Every day, every second. Whenever we are doing more than breathing, helping others, taking care of our primary needs, the rest is just a search for validation. We even choose our friends based on our interests - to validate that our choices in life are the right ones, because our friends chose the same at those points we have in common. And this is ok. We are living in a world with many possibilities, you can now be and do whatever you want. Some might even call it a crazy world. Might be. So being smart makes you question society rules (a society that we invented), you have different answers to life and you feel an outsider, weird, different in all possible ways because you just have other answers others can`t see. Finding people alike, understanding (by passing the test) that you are just different and you need to accept it is a life jacket not a narcissistic approach. PS: I am not a Mensa member.
You deserve to be.
I did a Mensa test. Why? My parents always told me I was stupid. I didn’t think I was, but I needed to know I wasn’t stupid. It turns out I was right and they were wrong. It did make me feel better about myself. I wasn’t in the 2% , but it was close enough that they invited me to do another test. Apparently you can be invited to do another test. I declined because I don’t need to join Mensa that to feel better than others.
I found the test basically proves a persons ability to reason, problem solving abilities, and an eye to notice differences quickly. That’s really what I walked away with.
I'm too slow for Mensa. I took a test for them once, and I got nearly every question I answered right, but I ran out of time before I finshed. If speed is required, I'm not qualified. No big deal, I'm just in the habit of thinking things over at leisure. I know I'm not a genius, I've seen real ones in action, but in some ways I'm far above average. I suck at higher math but my verbal skills are very high. I just work with what I've got and don't worry about the rest.
That is very interesting. I once read intelligence is sometimes described as speed, i heard one time that normal people can grasp all the things that intelligent people can eventually just that they will take a lot more time to do it.
I'm also like you, i like to think deeply at my slow pace, there are a lot of things you can discover that way.
Do you think this is a reflector of iq or just personality?
It's been a while since I studied this shit, but I remember they told me that these tests are made up of 2 general concepts: Power and speed. Power is your ability to get shit done without time being a variable. Speed is how fast you are able to get shit done. For example, take-home tests are power tests (assuming you don't cheat). So, it sounds like you have a lot of power, but crap speed. IMO the speed component is a use it or lose it kind of a thing. If you're not regularly practicing it, you're not gonna be speedy. I doubt that a guy who's capable of scoring high on an IQ test but who isn't reading regularly or doing math / logic puzzles on a regular basis is going to do well.
@@whoopshoopadoop8900 Please some links
@@arnavrawat9864 google it my dude
MENSA: charging "brilliant people" $79 a year for validation.
One thing I will say is 70 dollars is probably not a big deal to what i presume to be middle aged men who are obviously financially stable enough to pay to take intelligence tests
It's just a club.. with a yearly cost.
Seriously, though, why is it so “cringey” to be proud of belonging to Mensa? I don’t see any difference between that and being a star athlete or a Pageant Queen or belonging to any club, really. People get so triggered over Mensa...I just don’t see why saying you’re a member is some kind of social gaffe. People wear Harvard shirts or beauty crowns or drive Lambos...what’s the difference? Asking for a friend...
@@mgal6234 People cope with insecurities in so many different ways. We all want to be attractive, smart, funny, etc.. The distinction between wearing make-up, or exercising, and entering a beauty pageant could very well stem from the same insecurity. Do we want to better ourselves for validation, or do we want validation through being "better" than others? Certainly, this is not always the intent, but it is how these sorts of things are often received. Each person has their own insecurities, which can be reinforced when someone thinks they are "better" than that person.
Inherently, exclusive groups are contingent on members possessing some quality that is not possessed by others. If someone wears a Harvard shirt, drives a Lambo, or joins Mensa, they are sending a message to those around them- whether they hope to do so, or not.
Just my vantage point, though, I certainly cannot speak for others.
Christopher McDonald I completely agree with you, and am also willing to admit that as an unattractive, bullied, female teenager, I wanted **something** to feel good about. So I joined Mensa. But I soon found out (and it’s kind of confirmed here and in the comments) that anyone in Mensa is kind of immediately deemed a “narcissist” who just wants to flaunt his or her IQ. I just don’t understand why Mensa members IN PARTICULAR are somewhat ridiculed for even mentioning their membership. After all, religions could be considered “exclusive clubs,” as well as models, engineers, doctors, etc. I understand and agree with your point that people should seek internal validation, but honestly...I don’t understand the ridicule when someone “dares mention” their Mensa affiliation or wears a Mensa T-shirt. (I have never done anything like that BECAUSE of the fear of being ridiculed...) Otherwise I totally agree that validation comes from within, but sometimes it takes a lifetime to find that kind of self-love. If ever, really.
You have to have a certain IQ. I belong and so did my dad. His IQ was 183. My therapist thought it would help me socialize more normally and learn how to deal with the general public in a more congenial manner. I had problems dealing with people who didn't understand things as quickly and clearly as I do. My dad was a mathematic genius and a f------ nightmare to deal with. He got upset with me when I was in the 2nd grade and was having problems grasping the elements of algebra and calculus. He was nuts!
Do you feel that you have a naturally high IQ due to genetics or was it the way you were parented by your dad?
@@TheLadyDelirium not certain. I started writing short stories at 4 years old and reading and writing about ancient Egypt and Greece. My younger brother's IQ was also very high. Both my parent had master's degrees. Perhaps genetics.
@@TheLadyDelirium
There is both. When the kids were little they got lots of books read to them they both cought the bug and learned to love books and libraries.
As far as a genetic component I strongly suggest that is strong probability that is a very good case to made also.
I know the feeling.
I think he was upset that you were stealing his thunder. Before you came along he was the smart guy who everybody lionized and he could see his place in the family going to you.
Having a high IQ doesn't mean you'll have an easy life. Wanting to associate with others with similar intelectual capacities doesn't make you narcissistic - it makes you human. I have an IQ in the top 2% according to IQ tests (Stanford-Binet) administered both by a private psychologist and by my school district when I was child. They were administered because I had severe behavioral issues (acting out in class, defying authority) as a 1st grader. I was initially labeled as hyperactive. After the IQ tests, I was labeled as "gifted" and segregated into advanced / enriched learning classes. I still suffered from cognitive deficits, especially relating to language (spelling) and mathematics, as well as sensory and social issues I now believe are related to high functioning autism and (ASD) and ADHD. I dropped out of high school due to emotional traumas suffered as a teenager related to violence and abuse that came from inside and outside of family. As an adult I became a licensed architect after doing remedial work at a community college, and graduated Cum Laude from Cal Poly in the early 1990s . I eventually worked at Walt Disney Imagineering, became licensed, and quit Disney to become a professor of architecture at Santa Monica College in the 2000's. I had great difficulties with the ethics of the administration of that college and in 2010 resigned what was an effectively tenured position at that institution and quit teaching entirely.
I've struggled my whole life when dealing with intuitions, people in authority, and groups of people generally. I've never felt especially smart much less superior because of my many deficits and struggles with anxiety and depression. I rarely disclose my IQ to anyone, because I find it puts people off. People figure it out anyway, and often become jealous, and I've been bullied, especially as a child because of it. Even some of the psychologists I've seen over the years seemed to take offence when I disclosed it - something I do as a matter of course with mental health professionals because I believe It's relevant to my career and social struggles.
I considered joining MENSA as part of what would now be called "personal branding" as something I could use on my resume after graduation. I also thought it might provide a way to literally meet "like minded people" lol. Having an extreme IQ / neurological / cognitive profile is very lonely. I decided against joining MENSA because again, I felt uncomfortable disclosing that I have a high IQ. It works against you, as the title of this video suggests.
As a teacher I learned that while IQ can certainly be an important factor in student success, it's far from the most important trait. The most important traits are high motivation, curiosity, and discipline / work ethic. Work ethic being the single most important when it comes to academic success. In career success another whole set of factors emerge which center on good SOCIAL skills combined with ruthlessness and ambition. Not competence or honesty, or any of that. Competence is like intelligence (crystalized intelligence actually) it must be combined with Machiavellian social skills from what I've seen to reach the highest echelons in most organizations. Without that sort of ruthless ambition, the merely competent / intelligent will lose to the stupider less competent but more ruthless and ambitious every single time.
At least everywhere I ever worked. So now I'm retired from the rat race. Ketamine infusion therapy helped me overcome my anxiety and depression, and now I'm an artist and musician. Life is good, but to my former academic and architecture colleagues and peers, I'm seen as a drop-out and a failure. They all seem quite miserable though - just like I was when in their shoes. I've never been happier than I am right now. So there you go! =D
What you described reminds me of something I read called having skin in the game. A drug addict, for example, is one of the most resourceful individuals you'll ever observe.. and that is because they have skin in the game.
Being highly motivated and ruthless is a coctail for success. But there is the hedonic treadmill... so a highly successful person is not necessarily the happiest. In fact they are often the most miserable.
The competent and intelligent person might lose out to those more ruthless and motivated (but less competent), but I'm willing to bet that the former are happier people.
And I'm guessing that is precisely the case with you.
Thank you for sharing your words!
Society treats anyone non average as an outcast. This includes high IQ people as well. Mensa is more of a safe place for hi IQers and this guy thinks they are narcissists.
@@jackorlove4055 My experience exactly. Most "sucessful" people are miserable. I sure was, and so were pretty much all of the people with more "success" than me.
I've come to see competitiveness as the root of most social evil. It creates resentment and is driven by greed and ego. It requires putting other people down - litterally. There can only be one winner, everyone else is a loser, and becomes resentful of the winner. This resentment drives further competion, and yet more resentment. Meanwhile, the winner must always look over their shoulder lest a loser take them out.
Imagine deliberately framing your reality and society around such an absurd and wicked system.
Well, that's our society. Yes, we are naturally competitive to degree. That doesn't mean we should fully embrace that aspect of human nature. We are also naturally jealous, greedy, and vengeful. Gluttonous and ragefull. Lazy.
There are less destructive aspects of human instinct like cooperation and respect and moderation that might make society a little less horrible if we alloy them with our competitive instincts.
Are you twice exceptional? It’s basically when you’re gifted in some areas but have deficits in others due to disorders such as ADHD, Autism, dyslexia, etc.
I joined Mensa 30 years ago so I could find friends in a strange city that I just moved to. It was fun for a while, and the people were very nice, but I didn't make the "connections" I was anticipating. The group tends to sponsor social events instead of intellectual debate and learning. I feel lucky to have had the opportunity and experience.
There are now over 50 online special topic forums (fora?) where intellectual discussions can be found.
As a former member of Mensa, I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. I thought it would be an opportunity to engage with interesting, intelligent people. It wasn't. By the time I finished my master's degree, I found that it was more interesting to engage with people who were well-educated than people who had just scored high on a standardized test. I would note that I didn't seek out tests to join Mensa. I was administered various IQ tests over a period of time by state and federal government agencies who were interested in my level of functioning for the purpose of vocational rehabilitation and with those results decided to join to expand my social activities. Those scores did open up my educational opportunities and I didn't mind telling people that. I would also note that I was given several personality inventories and narcissism was not a salient trait in any of those tests.
I would say that the experience of Mensa depends on the group. I used to be in a wonderful group in Warrington, UK with people from many walks of life for many years. We had fun. We had stimulating conversations. I learned a lot about human nature. I then moved quite a distance and was pleased to find a new local group to join (I'm an introvert and find it difficult to make new friends). I didn't last long. I found them to be elitist and engaged in one-upmanship. I left. I have just recently rejoined as I'm really missing those stimulating conversations. There is no local group where I am now, but modern technology means I have found some local Mensans - some of whom are friends of friends! - who I wouldn't have met otherwise. When I was a teenager I was told Mensa was a way for people who were too nerdy to make friends to socialise, and that's why I joined. For me it really can be an opportunity to engage with interesting, intelligent people.
I think the real difference of distinguishing a person with high IQ against one that only relies on the number shown is only the fact that one never stops learning, is always on the lookout for new things to discover, and doesn't brag just because he's in a club. While the other one preferes bringing up their number in any conversation they have, and not even demonstrating it. "People who boast about their IQ are losers", said Hawking, and I agree with that.
I think it's difficult to complain about the particular issues that come with high intelligence without coming off like you're bragging. It's like complaining about being so pretty that you keep getting romantic propositions.
High intelligence can come with depression and isolation from peers. I think it can also result in misunderstandings because people will think you're mocking them or being antagonistic when they don't understand what you're saying. I've gotten excited that I can talk about certain topics with people, only to be disappointed when I find they can't carry a conversation about the topic like I assumed when they mentioned their opinion on it.
I thought about joining Mensa so I could put it on job applications. My idea was it'd be a way to signal to the employers that even if I'm not their ideal candidate, I'm smart so I'd be worth the effort to train. What stopped me was that literally every person I talked to about doing that said something along the line of "oooh, don't do that, that sounds so vain."
I can understand your reasoning for including it in job applications, but agree it’s a bad idea. In all likelihood, the person filtering out the resumes would likely be less qualified clerics or HR before they reached the hiring manager. Either way, I think most people want to work with someone whom is a good social fit for the organisation, and implying superior IQ would not work in your favour in this regard
When I went for my first job and had no experience and just my school exam certificates I included my Mensa test results in my qualifications folder, and it got me the job, but now I've got life experience and real exam results I don't feel the need.
Yeah, average people themselves are too vain, so seeing someone with a higher IQ score would intimidate them and they would then project their own wounded vanity onto you. For most people who actually do have a high IQ score, all they are saying by including it in a resume is that they have good reasoning abilities, good working memory, likely good verbal ability i.e. some of the things that in and of themselves would be fine to put on a resume (good communicator, good memory for details, etc), but when you just say you have high IQ it triggers all of their own insecurities and becomes a no-no. Also, if you mention that you have high IQ, people tend to assume you then must have an all-over perfect life. Whenever something that you do is less than perfect, they point out that if you really had that high of an IQ score, that thing you did/said would be perfect as well. No right to commit any mistake in life anymore.
@@ElenaKomleva Probably one of the reasons I don't mention it any more - if I've got such a high IQ why don't I have a better job/life? Having a high IQ doesn't stop me having intermittent MH problems or different goals in life than financial ambitions (which has backfired on me in times of austerity), both of which mean I slide back down the ladder, and I keep on climbing back up!
Elena Komleva I think most high IQ people see it as odd behaviour as well - especially if the applicant is applying for a job that already requires qualifications and experience that only someone with a high IQ could attain. I know in my profession I’d be thinking they had some sort of personality or narcissistic disorder. Perhaps also low self awareness which never works out well in collaborative work environments
I was in a Mensa test, we was given papers to fill our name there.
I managed to write my name, sighted out loud and asked, "so, am I in?"
Oddly so, everyone did laugh.
Jenni Elina Holopainen smart people have sense of humor, is one of the “signs”
Well they were laughing at you not with you
I suspect the joke would be funnier if I knew what "sighted out loud" meant...
And did you pass the test?
@@jimglidewell I think it was a typo and Jenni meant she 'sighed' out loud
Smart people du not have a sense of humor
I'm in Mensa... Joined maybe thirty years ago. As a child, I was sent for psychological testing recommended by my public school teacher. She felt I had emotional problems that needed to be addressed. Part of the assessment was an IQ test, and my score was quite high. It ended up causing me problems in school. Although nobody would have suspected I was especially intelligent, (I did quite poorly in school, and never went to college), I remember walking down the hall in elementary school and overhearing two teachers whom I did not know speaking... One said with a very snide tone... "There's that boy with the high IQ." To this day, I don't understand why she took such a derisive attitude toward me. Would she have had the same tone if I had been the boy with the low IQ? I was only nine years old. Upon meeting and speaking with me, nobody would suspect I might have a high IQ. My spelling is atrocious, my grammar, changes with the person "with whom I am speaking"... (Normally I speak like a hillbilly.) My father and brother, are also Mensa members. My wife could automatically qualify and join via her GRE scores. I wonder what the odds are (Mensa mathematicians?) of two people by chance meeting, falling in love and both being Mensa qualifiers? I'm an accomplished musician and I also wonder if that might be an offshoot of my IQ. The older I get, (in my 60's now), the more interesting I find old people. I enjoy talking at length with them and I try to let them know that I appreciate their company. Anyway...sorry about the ramblings.
You sir are Mensa! 90% of the membership of my local chapter is your bio to a T.
Sad that Dr. Grande panders to the populist view of Mensa as nothing but a collection of narcissists.
Assuming every person finds someone and falls in love the odds are of course theortically 2% * 2% = 1 in 2500
Not very low if you consider the fact that as he said in the vid more than the top 2% qualify, you're more likely to marry someone that is closer to you intelligence level, and you're likely to have multiple lovers (hopefully not)
@@flyingchimp12 Hi, I don't doubt your math at all. Thanks for showing me how to calculate it!
I took an IQ test as part of neurodevelopmental disorder diagnosis, and during that test I discovered that I had very little working memory - which led to a second diagnosis. My score serves as a reminder that I’m not dumb as rocks, just not neurotypical.
(edit: I like rocks a lot, not trying to be mean to them
To be honest, most rocks I know ARE pretty stupid.
@@stargazer7644 are you maybe referring to THE ROCK? I hope not my friend or he’ll hunt you down
Funny fact: in Spanish, (non-formal, "commoner" Spanish) the word "mensa" can be used as an insult against someone who isn't very smart, or considered an idiot. I've heard it being used in that way many times, and it's just funny to me because I always remember those occasions when hearing about Mensa. Anyway, interesting topic today.
@Sonia IS I guess it's mostly Spanish from Mexico. (At least, that's what I'm more familiar with)
Yes -- I had same reaction! (Mexican Spanish, too -- and, as you say, very much "slang"!) 😅
@Sonia IS Mensa en esañol México significa "tonta".
Sonia, eres miembo de MENSA?
It is a very common word here in Chile
I have watched many Dr. Grande videos, and I find it fascinating that I don’t think I’ve ever heard him say
‘Umm’....
Very impressive
LOL, I have definitely said it a few times as well as uh, you know, and like. I try not to, but I am not always successful -
Indeed...
No disfluencies....
Thus not a psychopath...
Just a guy helping by sharing knowledge
Gud on ya Dr Grande...
@@DrGrande Your effort to do that is one of many reasons you have such a vast following! I have severe ADHD, and ums ers likes & you know really distract me, because I start wondering "do I know?" And that is a long rabbit hole for me. I can think all night about whether I know, even though I do know that 99% of the time I conclude that I don't know, and then I feel that I need to say that I do not know to the person asking me if I know out of context. Say like, like, way too much. The you know one makes me 😵💫😵💫😵💫
But the biggest plus of your channel to me, is that you don't splice your videos very much, doing the cuts and whatnot. I can't stand being barraged with information without any meaningful pauses.
I really think this is one of my best subscriptions by far on CZcams
@@xino_z I think that's really stupid, you know?
@@balladofcoseypolar4711 ya
Many years ago, a friend was at a party when, for whatever reason, a person (also known to me) casually mentioned they were a member of Mensa. My friend without hesitation said, oh that's good, because he and his wife were members of Densa!
😭
Having a high IQ is often problematic for people, unless they tend work in academia or otherwise have regular access to other people who are highly intelligent and are interested in discussing a wide variety of issues, from evolutionary psychology to artificial intelligence. Often for children is more of a curse than a blessing because it makes it far more difficult to find friends one's own age to talk about think of subject matter you're interested at the level of understanding you're currently at. Very gifted children also tend to ask their parents questions like, "what's the meaning of life?," And the parents have no idea how to even begin that discussion. Existential crises are common.
And unless your parents can afford a gifted school, or let you take university classes early, you're bored out of your skull even in advanced placement courses.
When I was 9 years old, my dad's part-time job was at the horse race track. He was talking to mom about losing $2 because his horse finished last. I asked him if he could place bets on which horse would finish last? He said no, it didn't work that way. I asked him why, but he had no answer. To me, it seemed logical to place bets on which horses would come in FIRST and come in LAST. He and mom just stopped talking and gave me the silent treatment for awhile.
I scored 137 in H.S. and failed almost everything except Aviation class, which I LOVED and got straight A's! I took an extra year to graduate H.S. Don't know why, but I've always had trouble making/keeping friends. At 80 years old, I'm accustomed to being a loner.
I joined the Army 1964 & learned how to drive a typewriter. In 1967 I volunteered to drive helicopters. In 1968 1st Air Cavalry, Vietnam, I learned to do complex math problems in my head like navigation, fuel consumption, weight & balance, all while dodging trees & bullets at 130 mph. In 1970, I turned down a 1st LT promotion to get out and became a cop. I thought management surely must be better in Law Enforcement, but I was wrong! In L.E., incompetence and corruption are the norm, not the exception. Retired from police bullshit in 1990.
Regarding Mensa, the thought of my being on the lowest rung of the Brainiac club doesn't feel attractive to me. I just wouldn't know what a bunch of Rocket Scientists & PHD's were even talking about. I'd be like their pet chimp.
Absolutely!! An excellent point!!
I really appreciate your balanced and calm approach to any topic out there and how well-researched your videos always are. This was both interesting and informative! Thank you for sharing.
Valeria Vagapova Agreed and appreciated.
This wasn't balanced, nor was it informative. There is misinformation and conflation in his approach.
Yeah is hard to find balance individuals in this platform. You can find knowledgeable people but balance not so much!
In my first two weeks at university they conducted an IQ test on us. From initiation we were so sleep deprived I remember guessing some (ok, a lot) of the answers because I could not keep my eyes open. They called me in about a week later trying to convince me to change course because they felt I would struggle lol. Needless to say I did not change course and I got my degree just fine.
That reminds me of my senior year in college, where I majored in languages. I had to take one more science credit before graduation, so I picked anatomy & physiology. The professor pulled me aside after a day, saying, "You haven't taken chemistry in college. You _will_ fail this course. I suggest you drop the course, now." I thanked her and kept on with it. By midterms, she pulled me aside and said, "Have you ever considered pre-med?" Made me laugh. I got an A for that course. The moral of the story is not to listen too hard to the numbers people.
@@bnic9471 In the immortal words of the late Kenny Rogers, "You've got to know when hold 'em, know when the fold 'em, know when to walk away and know when to run."
An anonymous Mensa member here. Thanks Dr. for your video, I listened to it with interest and can agree with a lot with what you say. I know Mensa attracts a lot of narcissists, but I want people to know that this is mostly not the case. Many members have feelings of inadequacy, insecurity or feeling of being separated from society (lonely), and do the test to simply find answers, understand themselves better, and maybe find peer support. I'm one of those who doesn't tell anyone I'm in Mensa: I entered in my late teens during a period of serious suicidal depression, when I felt I was failing at everything: I was convinced that depression had killed my brains, which I had always relied on at school (straight A student). I felt inadequate and useless. Finding out that I was still "smart" helped me to motivate myself to get into uni after all.
I told three close friends of mine who knew about my depression and feelings of inadequacy. Under the surface they didn't take it well and most have since distanced themselves from me over the years, although we are still good friends. Since then I haven't told anyone.
So yes, some people in Mensa are narcissistic, but many are not! I guess it's just like any peer support group or hobby club in this world. And as some commenter wrote, mostly it's for a group of nerds who enjoy puzzles and discussing complex things that other people in their lives are simply not interested in discussing. (By the way, the open Facebook Mensa group is a different ballgame, so don't draw conclusions from that. Most people there are not even Mensa).
And no, high IQ does not mean these people are smart in many other aspects of life... I treat high IQ it as a special education zone: as a child I would have needed special support in school, not the kind that panders to narcissism of a gifted student: but rather, special education on social skills, psychological support, etc. would have made school and life easier for me. (Yes, I'm also on the spectrum (suspected Asperger's): so I struggled with social skills.... By the way it is also not true that autistic people lack empathy: many of us have very high (even excessive) empathy, sensitivity and selfless caring.)
As a child I did not know how to hide my own IQ at school, so I probably "overdid" my educational enthusiasm in the eyes of others, and was isolated and bullied as a result. No one advised me as a child, how to manage being high-functioning, but also be popular at school at the same time. Psychologists could help high IQ children in this. But it's important for people to understand, that an intelligent child who speaks his/her thoughts aloud in the class or seeks his/her ideas to be validated by teachers and others is *not* usually the same as narcissism - it's just about being a curious, thinking, enthusiastic gifted child. We get excited like that! It's literally just the way these children function, regardless of their IQ scores. They don't understand that acting like a "smart***" is socially shunned; or that it can hurt or demoralise other students. No teacher ever explained to me, that I was perceived as arrogant or as putting other students down, and that others perhaps bullied me _because_ they felt hurt or undermined by a straight A student in an autistic spectrum who said things without thinking. I was too young to understand, but I do now.
As an adult I have learned to "dumb myself down": even when I know answers or can logically reach complex conclusions, I stay quiet or I play dumb. I am careful to not outshine others, so I have more friends now. Although I still feel lonely and separated. Sometimes I still get asked by random people, if I have ever gotten myself tested. I answer vaguely without revealing my score.. A couple of times they asked me straight if I scored above Mensa threshold, and I was honest but humble in my response. So apparently I'm not always able to hide it as well as I think...
I was drafted and got a 149 on the GT test; which is a general intelligence test. A 149 was right at the top of the percentiles in 1967. So, I was placed in the Intelligence School. I took the LSAT twice, First in 1966 where I did rather poorly. While in the Army, I bought LSAT prep books and scored in the 98th percentile the second time. Based on my Army test, I was admitted to Mensa. I wasn't overly impressed by the people I met.
Wow. You're smarter than my friend, Dick Feynman, who won a Nobel Prize in physics for resolving infinite values that arise in Quantum Electrodynamics. I believe he told me that his 127 IQ didn't allow him to qualify for Mensa. He was one of my teachers at Caltech many years ago.😊
My friend albert einstein had an iq of 160. This means i must be extremely smart.
@@WalterClements.officialIsn't it surprising a physicist winning the Nobel prize is not in Mensa? Might just means they do not only have Nobel prizes in their club. So cheer on.
My mom was in Mensa briefly, in the hopes of finding smart guys to date/ friends to make. Sadly, she found that most of the people she met were super full of themselves, so she stopped going back. My dad went also, and was invited to a higher IQ society (higher than Mensa, I mean), but he was totally unimpressed by them all and so stopped going. Since I was tested as gifted as a child, I briefly considered attending Mensa in the hopes of making friends, but was totally unimpressed with what I found out about them. In short, my motivation was loneliness and a desire to make friends with people who would understand me. But I never did even apply.
I (protected by my anonymous handle) became a member last year, and am thinking of leaving again for the same reasons you mention. I liked the language puzzles in the international magazine, though. Not sure, what I wanted to prove to myself by becoming a member.
Puzzle Girl, you aren't missing out on much. I joined Mensa when I was younger for the same reason you wanted to. I was lonely and wanted to find my people. I wanted to have conversations about the big questions, and to get guidance from wise elders. It turns out, however, they don't talk about the big questions. They talk about really banal stuff, and the conversation is always dominated by blowhards. I don't remember any actual conversations except for one: A middle-aged woman was going on forever about some Cliff Richard concert she had just gone to. No doubt Cliff Richard had been a big star when she was younger. I do think that pop culture is an incredibly interesting topic of conversation, but this was just a straight-ahead fan-girl account of some boring concert. I felt more isolated than ever.
Dan Phillips I would love to discuss how pop culture defines career choices and industries such as fashion and the real estate trends, I see your point but I don’t think concert chick thought of any of that.
@puzzle girl fun fact actually people joined MENSA for that exact reason when it was first founded....
You should still apply I think. Just because your father met people who were not the greatest doesn't mean that you will. You might meet some really nice people you enjoy.
I remember my NPD boyfriend coming to dinner at my place. My father was there. Shortly after he arrived, out of the blue, he asked "Did I TELL you I have an IQ of 165?" And in that moment I thought to myself, "Then why were you so stupid to have said something like that?"
Why’s that stupid to say? Maybe your boyfriend was very pleased abt what he feels as an accomplishment. Regardless intelligence is mostly genetic and environmental just like attractiveness no one deserves it or worked for it.
@@Lebronwski Because it's alienating and it makes you sound small to brag about an attribute that is just part of your genetic package. You almost never hear someone with high intelligence talking about how smart they are. It's like going around saying "Did I tell you that I am considered in the top 2% of beautiful people on Earth?" If you won the genetic lottery and got the gift of very high intelligence, that's great. The best way to demonstrate that your IQ has value is to do put it to use doing something good in the world (whatever that is). You look kind of pathetic if you need to bolster your ego by talking about how smart you are.
@@Lebronwski Having a higher IQ isn't necessarily an achievement. It's a combination of environmental and genetic factors.
@@jaelzion well I agree with the first part. But to say intelligent people aren’t braggadocios is just a complete disregard of what intelligence is. Intelligence isn’t necessarily a humble guy.
@@jaelzion something with attractiveness that isn’t the same with intelligence is that it’s a lot harder to notice. Unless the intelligent person has absolutely no social skills there’s no distinguishing.
I'm a Mensa member and I never mention it to anyone anymore (except on the CZcams comments section, it seems). I did when I was younger and I learnt my lesson. People (especially employers) develop high expectations of you and you're setting yourself up for ridicule and failure. Having a high IQ does not exclude you from doing really stupid stuff and making bad decisions. I might be a Mensa member but I'm not particularly driven or ambitious and the expectation is that you are a high level performer in everything you do. People expect you to do extraordinary things. For me, an extraordinary event is getting out of before 10am and achieving the almost impossible feat of having matching socks. Working hard and being successful has nothing to do with IQ - it has to do with a person who is determined to succeed.
What I would like to mention with regards to narcissism: My sister-in-law was an administrator for Mensa for a long time. She said she would have to mentally brace herself when it came to testing time because of the hate mail and threats which were emailed to Mensa after people failed the test. Some people take it very seriously.
Something which Dr Grande failed to mention were the amount of suicides and self-harm connected to people failing Mensa tests. Take an already depressed person who thinks they can prove to themselves that they are worthy a worth human being by making the Mensa grade - but subsequently fails. I don't think there have been any studies on the Mensa fail/suicide connection but based on what my sister-in-law has told me with regards to the fallout after people failing tests it could be worth looking into in the future sometime. Or maybe I should do the study myself, being Mensa qualified and all! :D
I once knew someone with a Ph.D who didn't impress me as being that smart. She was knowledgeable about her field of study but not much beyond that.
Most doctors, for example, have average intelligence. Intelligence doesn't correlate with education and especially doesn't correlate with having the ability to succeed in the standard education system
@@alaindreaknight7640So can you "do well" in the education system with 0 intelligence?
If not,then those 2 variables aren't as independent as you think
@@Asus_sugoma yes. Doctors have doctoral degrees and post doctoral internships. They are the most educated, at the pinnacle. The vast majority of doctors have average intelligence.
The major precursor for success at an ivy league school is Grit, not i.q. Look at Angela Duckworth's research.
Further, many high i.q. people struggle in school because when they aren't often challenged so when they are they often have poor or no study skills. This has been well documented over and over in research. Mind your shadow.
I’ve never thought about this before. My mom and I both have very high “IQ” but she flaunts it all the time, always talking about it to people and using it as a point to “prove” she is superior to others. Although I get that sometimes it can be hard to relate or get some people to understand ideas, I can’t imagine actually thinking one is superior just because of a ridiculous test. What you are saying about narcissism and using Mensa in this way is spot on. So weird to be hearing this.
@Dori Williams I too have seen people flaunting their IQ. This exposes a deficit in one area: Lack of intuition about other people's reactions. I have Asperger's, and I had to learn, the hard way, things that are intuitively obvious to most people. Call it EQ (Emotional Quotient). I don't have lack of empathy, I just have difficulty matching it to events in real time. My empathy for other people is sometimes excessive because of all the hurt I suffered as a child from 'not fitting in' and not knowing why. Of being able to name as many players on the local football team as anyone else, but having zero interest in what seemed to me a repetitive totally self-limiting zero-sum game with only 4 outcomes (draw, rained off, win, lose) none of which were interesting (well rained off was, coz then attention could switch to something else).
There seems to be an inherent contradiction in organizations like Mensa that celebrate a supposedly innate personality quality (IQ in this case): being proud of one's inclusion in Mensa, especially if one has lobbied for that inclusion, seems to indicate a manifestation of what Carol Dweck calls a "fixed mindset", where the exhibition and protection of the rare laudatory label is the main preoccupation of the person, rather than a love of learning and hunger for knowledge. The latter qualities characterize what Dweck calls a "growth mindset", and it is this mindset that is associated with intellectually fulfilled people, flexible and curious about life, not afraid to make mistakes. So we have a contradiction, where striving to be included in Mensa as a high IQ "certification" indicates a fixed mindset which in turn points to a deficient intellectual life...
So well said. I think it raised my IQ.
You're in Mensa, aren't you?
@Benjamin Kreft You may be correct, at least in part, but I think that those who enjoy learning new things and thus raise their IQ would probably never even bother to check what their IQ score is, let alone try to get into Mensa: they have too many other interesting things to do, like study new stuff, make mistakes and learning from those mistakes, and being curious.
@Benjamin Kreft Again, you may be correct, although my main point was about trying to get into Mensa and not about casually testing your IQ. From this video I understood that getting into Mensa takes quite a bit of lobbying or political effort, besides just having received a high IQ score. Hypothetically, if almost everyone were administered a same IQ test (e.g., as part of routine school curriculum), and those who scored above a certain percentile received a "Mensa" label, then my argument would be null and void. As it is, that LABEL ITSELF is apparently a prized possession for which one has to fight, which smacks of narcissism. But again, my point is general and not about any particular member of Mensa. So, just in case, no offence :)
I think there is definitely a link between narcissism and iq because narcissism is kind of a fixed view of oneself as this superior entity and iq (as you said) is lauded by those who believe their intelligence is a fixed (and presumably superior) entity.
I was tested as a kid and came out at 139 IQ. I typically only mention this in conversation alongside talking about how dumb I am in all these different areas, in order to illustrate that there are many kinds of intelligence. Maybe some people see it as humble bragging, but I really am an idiot outside of like, math, science, and video games lol
You are me
Honestly, high scores in video games and pinball impress me just the same as high IQ hahah.
@@bitteralmonds666 that sounds about right to me
@@montewright111 sure I wouldnt disagree with that
@@georgirumenov9557 I am you
One attraction of Mensa is for young, single men and women to meet and get to know those of the opposite (or same) sex in search of romantic partners commensurate with their own level of intelligence. For women it might even mean finding and marrying someone more likely to make good money.
I am 5'10" tall and growing up I was always sticking out like a sore thumb. I wanted to date guys taller than me, to feel that primitive feeling of safety, in order to find someone to marry. Society told me my guy had to be taller than me. So at college age I went to a gathering of a tall people's club to see how it felt. It was wonderful! I only had to look up the whole evening and I was just as enamored of the other women, the older people and the wide range of all kinds of people. It just felt so good to not be self-conscious of my height; I could even wear high heels. So I would think that Mensa members would find a similar comfort in socializing with those more like themselves.
Being a member of a high 'IQ' society does not necessarily equal intelligence. I agree with this analysis Dr. Grande. Having high IQ runs in our family with a mixture of traits. Because of this IQ trait some members of the family have a 'better than thou' attitude. It's unfortunate that this has split and has fractured our family. Thank you Dr. Grande for this video.
Russian Jews tend to be among the largest super intelligent people in the world and don’t really represent many of the most successful people who use intellect to fuel their success, (ex Nobel Laureate or Fields Medal’s).
It is interesting how people who feel inferior in some way so often project that onto others as a 'better than thou' attitude. Scoring highly on an IQ test and being invited as a member of a high IQ society such as Mensa is pretty much the accepted definition of being intelligent. What "intelligence" means to you personally might vary.
I’m a part of Mensa youth in Australia. I’m 15. I got my iq tested as over 155 and because of this (I am not trying to brag don’t get me wrong) I have a lot of trouble making friends. I have deep special interests and the things I like discussing just don’t have any relevance to others or they don’t understand. I go to meeting once or twice a month and within Mensa there is special interest groups, where we can go and have deep discussions about things that actually interest us. It’s really refreshing actually and it has helped me make friends of similar IQ’s. We do not in any way degrade those with a lesser IQ, and they rarely come up in conversation to be honest. We do projects and other things in the meetings and go out for dinners sometimes. I particularly enjoy it but everyone’s experience is different I guess. 🤷🏻♀️ I haven’t had any particular “boosts” because of the memberships, I have had to get a job like anyone else, it’s really just a way for those with high IQs to feel less socially isolated, not trying to make “normal” people feel isolated. You just need to pay $45 AUD a year to keep the badge really and be allowed to go.
You're 15 and you allready needed to get a job?
I don't think you should take to heart any gripes people might have over you being in that organization, people gladly moralize over anything involving other people than themselves and it holds zero benefit for the people in question.
You can find people that you can converse with... it just takes time if you have a niche subject or are highly interested in taboo subjects like spirituality/politics. I would try to find others outside of mensa however. Someone can be very intelligent in a subject you like... but not very good at taking tests, remembering numbers, or whatever else the test requires. That is what i've always disliked about iq tests... they don't measure social iq, emotional iq, abstract iq, interpersonal iq, street smarts, empath iq, etc. It's a very niche side of things to stick with any "one" organization. There are a lot of humans you may be missing out on.
I feel that people who brag about their IQ and are unable to talk to people of lesser intelligence are often talking down to people. It's not a good way to win friends or influence people.
Molly Jones! You sound like a terrific young lady. I'm so glad you found like minded people.
@@CC-xn5xi I'm glad I see a positive and emphatic comment here for Molly, as the other people who commented all seemed to know it better, while they're not in the same situation, nor have the same perspective as Molly :/ You just congratulated her :) As a person who struggled a lot with my IQ, I'm always glad when I see a comment like yours. Validating, not dismissive (y)
"Trying to show off your intelligence inside of Mensa is like a exhibitionist among nudists."
We are not a group talking only about intelligence with each other.
We have these groups inside of Mensa which the people in Mensa can join.
A group for hikers, board game players, singles, ...
If you think there is no point in joining Mensa, you never were part of it.
I don't complain if someone pays multiple times to join us. Most of the money goes to the club treasury.
I joined when I was young, the meetings were dull, the women were plain. A young man can be intellectual but his pursuits remain that of a young man.
Now that I'm a bit older I may give it another go.
I agree we don't talk about intelligence in Mensa, in fact it's a taboo to even mention your own IQ score.
Plot twist: this is a narcissist who has gotten rejected from Mensa
haha funny
I had a chemistry teacher in High School that was in Mensa and wouldn't shut up about it. He was also a raging narcissist. You're shocked, I'm sure. I also knew a woman who bragged she had an IQ of 170. Judging by her words and actions over a long period of time, she definitely did _not_ have an IQ of 170. She did, however, also have a raging case of NPD. None of the actually smart people I've ever known have ever mentioned once that they're smart. It's just not necessary. You figure it out pretty quickly just by interacting with them.
I had a housemate who would constantly brag about his IQ and walk around with his Mensa mug. Absolute raging Narcissist and dumb as a post, always had to have some story to out do everyone. I remember I once accidentally burnt myself in the kitchen and he claimed he had no feeling in his left hand so I stood there and watched as he gave himself 3rd degree burns holding a hot pan to prove his point whilst visably wincing.
@m0L3ify I learned to keep a low profile in tedious situations. Useful survival tactic. When dealing with narcissists, it helps. I discovered recently it has a name: Gray Rock.
@@dakrontu My low profile is to become invisible. I now have a really bad case of echoism. 😕
@@BrickfallOfficial lol that is a whole lot of stupid! 😆 They should put that on the Mensa test!
Exactly my thoughts. Anyone who is speaking about their IQ is suspect to be in the low average to me. It's irrelevant outside of a discussion similar to this where the challenges are being discussed.
Dr. Grande, if you’re ever interested I can walk you through how to remove that white background noise from your audio. It’s fairly easy once you do it a few times (5-10 mins) and the program is free. I love your channel!
What's the program?
@Alvaro KDEnlive can do it while editing as video. Don't need to do audio separately.
@@jakebadhawk5201 Probably Audacity.
is it with skillshare???
What is that program?
"Mensa" - clearly derived from the Latin word for table - has actually been the name for the dining room in Universities in ancient Europe and still is. It has always been a place for introducing, sharing, discussing, challenging and debating ideas, the best and purest way of expressing intelligence. So it has been quite fitting to call this society that way.
Apparently when Mensa was started in 1948 I think it was, it was called MENS the Latin for mind, but they quickly realised that name could be misconstrued, so they changed it to Mensa.
A friend of mine came to me some years ago and asked me if I would go with him to a Mensa testing session, as he wanted to get tested, but was a bit shy of people and wanted some company. This was the first time Mensa was in our city, and there was many people there, so I joined in for the fun of it. I found the test quite easy, and knew that I had all answers right, except for one that I did not understand at all at the moment. That score was later confirmed, and I was invited to join Mensa, while my friend failed to pass.
I then began going to Mensa gatherings, but there where few members in my town, and even though most of them where nice people, some of the meetings was just me one or two other guys sitting around in a pub trying to find something to talk about. I also went to a national meeting. It was fun, with a lot of different people. Most of them was humble, easy going and nerdy men and woman with high degree of reflection and empathy. But I also met some people (a small minority, and mostly men) who I suspected was having narsisistic personality disorder. I also noticed that they was not that happy of being in a room full of other Mensa members. Maybe they did not feel unique and special enough in that setting?
In the following years, I went to the university for a MA degree and was occupied with studies and work, so I dropped hanging out with other Mensa members, and I also stopped paying the member fee as the member magazin dropped in quality. So, technically, I guess I am no longer a member, and has not been for several years. I seldom mention that i was, but some of my friends like to brag about it on my behalf, and I could bring it up if someone starts talking about Mensa, IQ or IQ-testing.
I live in Norway and my impression is that Mensa is a bit unknown here compared to in the US, but those who know the organisation have some mystic respect for the membership. I have noticed that most of the people I enjoy hanging out with also are on a IQ level around the Mensa-limit and abow, and the organizaton has just a small procentage of the high IQ society as members, so there is no need to be a member in order to meet and talk with other intelligent people, and an high IQ is not in it self a proof of intellectuality or wisdom in any way. But it is a cute club with mostly sweet people, who love things like Star Trek, Dungons and Dragons, pub quiz and stuff like that.
The original purpose of Mensa was to unite intelligent people from around the world to become an expert organ to give adive to nations in order to prevent a new world war. I think we need a superclub like that, even though the UN try to facilitate exactly that. But maybe Mensa could be even more active in educational politics and public discussions about human resourses and mental health. I am pretty sure that many people with high IQ is having different kinds of obsticals and challenges in both school, job marked and in social life because of their way of thinking and their view on the world around us.
Clever people solve problems, wise people avoid them
There is no such thing as a problem. I heard one time.
As well I worked in a top restaurant and head chef hated this word.
Well gosh, you have to wonder why people often expect an organization like Mensa to have a high purpose, or for its members to see great value in just saying that they're members. Franky, I joined just to broaden my social horizons. I was single and both working and studying full time back then. I didn't seem to meet many people outside my school and work circles. Going to Mensa meetings was a great chance to informally socialize with people from all walks of life in a welcoming environment. I also attended meetings in other countries. I had wonderful experiences traveling to places I've never been before and instantly meeting and connecting with people there. I see Mensa as a nice way of getting a diverse group of people together.
It's been eight months since you left this comment, but I'll leave a reply to help organize my thoughts anyways.
It's the fact that it's exclusive in a manner that's crushing to people who don't make the cut. Calling it a "nice way of getting a diverse group of people together" totally dismisses the imposing tyranny of its selection process. And here's the kicker -- you don't have to take the test and be rejected to experience the harsh judgement of this selection process. Just ruminating on the fact of its existence is enough to feel a heavy weight on your mind.
That being said, the hatred that may result from thinking over the fact of Mensa's existence is a hatred that doesn't make that much sense, I think. Ignore the harsh judgement of an IQ hierarchy for a second (not you, just the imaginary audience I'm lecturing). How else do you expect people to make friends than to find people that they mesh with? How I hear it put most often is that people can only really be friends with people that are similar to them. If you're an open-minded and intellectual person, you're probably only going to get along with such people. Let's reintroduce IQ into the equation, or at least, the demonstration of what one might perceive as "intelligence". An intelligent person encounters a new concept and makes a brilliant observation or comment regarding the subject. The unintelligent person she's with feels oppressed by the difference between them. The intelligent person, though they may feel the pride of being superior, possibly also feels terrible for making the other person feel that way, and for creating such an uncomfortable situation in the first place with their comment. They may feel the need to suppress their intellect, so as to not hurt other people's feelings.
You can't control what kinds of people you're naturally going to be great friends with. What're you going to do, stop crazy-smart people from being friends with who they really want to be friends with?
But then the glaring fact still remains for people low on the IQ scale: I am doomed forever to be a squat peasant-like nobody, floating around low-dominance circles. It's a crushing thing to believe about your life. I suspect that it is an untrue assertion, too, because first, I wonder if dumb people are truly "dumb", and I wonder if "IQ" is the absolutely right way to think of the mind. I know, how unintelligent of me, to call the idea of "IQ" into question, and I think "IQ" is encapsulates the truth more than IQ deniers would like. I still can't help but wonder if that's the whole story. One may also quickly realize that the influence or abilities or power your friends may possess or lack don't necessarily make them good or bad friends.
yeah. Same here. Just hoping to find people with different ideas, etc. Worked a lot and didn't find many people to talk to about various things.
@@tree6835 Why are you so upset? All organizations are exclusive to their topic. Bridge clubs insist you have to play bridge, chess clubs insist you play chess, i belong to a Tai Ji group and oh my god they won't let you in unless you practice tai ji with them! How elitist of them. My son is a member of Mensa and he gets to use his brain to contribute a lot of good things, but I totally claim village idiot. So?
@@Hollylivengood ähmm. But you get that it's different? Like anybody can learn to play a game or Pick up a Hobby but not everybody can get those high i. Q. Scores... And I also dont think that tree was realy upset. Just thinking out loud it seemed to me
@@MrDasfried What are you talking about? So? A lot of people are saying these guys are elitists, but if you stop with the moaning for a minute and just look at it objectively, why is that a terrible thing if their mind is proven, through testing and years of schooling, to be elite anyway? I mean elitism is only wrong if you harbor a delusion of being elite, but if you have a mind that can build a model of humanity's future based on the entire history of mankind that you have memorized page for page of what you've read and seen on the news, that's a fucking elite brain and you should hang with people like that. That was my kid by the way, and he was such an elitist that he spent his free time helping his friends learn to read in the projects we lived in. This is just a place for people who think this way, and not everyone can and some people find that hard to deal with this simple fact of life. Not everybody has to include you, but I promise you can be included somewhere.
I remember my grandmother told me that this lady who was from Mensa had lambasted her for washing a watermelon before cutting into it. She said, "why do you need to wash the watermelon if you are only eating the inside of the watermelon?", to which my grandmother replied, "when you cut into the watermelon, the germs are transferred into the watermelon, and they can still make you sick".
I found your talk incredibly informing and unbiased. I have been a member off and on for over 25 years, and you have addressed several issues most of us like to avoid (the "white elephants" in the room so to speak). My reasons for joining may have been more narcissistic than I would like to admit, but my reasons for staying is the friendship of people who "get" me. I don't feel I got a lot of excess praise as a child, if anything, the opposite. But your insight is very accurate. I enjoyed your talk!
Thanks Dr Grande. I have only ever met one person (that I know of) who was accepted to Mensa. He didn't brag. I was told by his sister, after listening to this presentation, I feel smarter. Thank you.
I love that its just puzzles, word questions, and math questions. It just panders to people who haven't been called smart since highschool/uni and want to re-live the rush of getting a 95% on their finals. A philosophy I've always carried is this; there's a long form written exam that you would fail and kim kardashian would pass with 100%. Everyone spends their time learning something. No one goes home and stares at a brick wall for 16 hours. Even if all you do is watch movies, do that enough with an open mind and you'll be considered a critic. Chances are a decent chunk of mensa members don't have a better understanding of electronics as i do since its my field of work, chances are most mensa members don't know more about aviation and rocketry as me since these are my passions. And of course some will, again we all spend our time on our own things. I didn't do alot of puzzles or reading as a kid, i played with the batteries in my RC plane.
true, but the amount of time needed to get that 100% or to learn that amount changes from person to person
You seem to be confusing intelligence with knowledge of things. I'm not sure why you seem surprised that someone who hasn't studied a subject wouldn't be as good at it as someone who has. Mensans aren't magically born with all the knowledge in the world. Intelligence is the ability to look at what everyone else has looked at and to see what no one else has seen. Mensans are good at APPLYING knowledge. We're good at seeing patterns and solving problems, often in unique ways. Yes, you're going to run rings around a Mensan that doesn't have an electronics background. You're not likely to run rings around one who does.
@@stargazer7644 again, mensa members ARE intelligent, but only in the things they have KNOWLEDGE on, Which is visual puzzles. Intelligence is applied knowledge.
Mensa doesnt test knowledge on things like categorization knowledge (botanists, doctors, zoologists, archeologists, etc.), they dont test mechanical knowledge (mechanics, pilots, drivers, etc.), they dont test conceptual knowledge (engineers, architects, artists, writers and directors, etc.), they dont test capacitive knowledge (historians, teachers, lawers, etc.), all mensa tests are visual and mathematics based. So again, mensa is just a club for people who are good at puzzles.
@@a1919akelbo Again, you aren't getting it. Knowledge doesn't cause intelligence. It's the other way around. Mensans don't "have knowledge [of] visual puzzles." Knowing things doesn't make you intelligent. That's why IQ tests go out of their way not to test knowledge. They test your ability to THINK. IQ tests often test logic, pattern recognition, memory, 3D spatial visualization, and reasoning ability because those abilities are highly correlated with intelligence. A completely uneducated person who has never been taught to read or write and has never touched a book can still be a genius. Please don't presume to tell me about what Mensa is, as I've been a member for decades. You haven't.
@@stargazer7644 dude. Intelligence IS applied knowledge, someone with lots of knowledge on calculus isnt the most intelligent person at a biology conference. I agree knowledge doesnt make you intelligent, knowledge makes you intelligent in the correct appliable context. If we both went to the puzzle museum youd have me beat ten out of ten times. But i doubt youd come close to beating me if we both had a gun to our heads and had to solve a problem on battery discharge rates.
Thats the problem im trying to explain, Stephen Hawking didnt know anything about biology. You probably dont know much about architecture. Are you smarter than an architect? They have doctorates and went to university longer than you did. Is an architect smarter than you? It ALWAYS depends on context. ALWAYS. Intelligence is applied knowledge, its relative, and its dependent on context. It doesnt matter what your IQ is if you are sat infront of a plane and asked to just "figure it out" you won't. And if you think you could you need to see a psychologist for that.
I generally like your videos and was ready to hate this one (Mensa member). I was very reluctant to join Mensa and ultimately did because I work in an emerging area of the law where the Mensa Foundation is doing some work. What I’ve found is a group of caring, quirky, interesting people. I think you’re right about participation vs qualifying and it’s a good point to make.
Having a high IQ is a gift, just like being born with a kind temperament or athletic ability. And no one has the right to boast about anything that’s been given to them.
where i live, you can participate in mensa's activities without even being a member, you can just contact them and participate, and if you like them and they like you, you can keep participating in that specific activity
oh, sorry, i was thinking of Mormons - IVI
So it's kind of like Switzerland?
😂😂😂haha what?
@@ivi3991 You can live in Switzerland but to become a citizen, you need the votes of your neighbors. 🙂
As a narcissist who has taken mensa's test when i was 11 yo (1985) and scored pretty high on my first and only test (0.3% of the population according to mensa's count) i can confirm that IQ just shows some ability to understand things and that's it. There are so many more things needed for a person to live a happy life. I went to a couple of mensa meetings because I was young and my parents did all the arrangements, but never paid any subscription since i became an adult. Meetings where boring and the food was bad. I don't know how mensa's tests are now, but back then they were composed of the same type of question throughout the test: a grid of 3x3 with 8 shapes shown and the 9th was blank, with 8 available answers to choose from. There always was some kind of continuity among the 8 shown shapes and some kind of a rationale behind the answer. And yes, it inflated my ego and I used to brag about my score for some time until i realised how lame i sounded.
And yet here you are lol
the one i took last year was very varied. memory, spacial reasoning, vocabulary.. pretty convincing. failed at 129/130 IQ points to get in. I dont like memory tests :D
Beauty and brains are gifts. Most people will be aware of these traits in themselves and others. There is no need to flaunt gifts and talents, this will only make most people feel inferior. What matters most to people is how one makes them feel. If you make them feel inferior or sad, then you are not very smart at all...However since you are intelligent you would know how to and can make others feel good about themselves. On their death beds most people will remember the kind people. Every one can be kind, thats the really smart thing to do. So be kind.
But why is it that people are not allowed to fully emerge themselves in their 'gifts'? Why is it the 'gifted' individuals responsibility to make themselves 'less' just to make others feel less insecure? That seems like such a waste of something beautiful. Wether that is intelligence, appearance, a certain sport, art, and so on.
Everyone are good at different things. Instead of pulling down people who are exceptional in specific areas, everyone should strive to be the best version of themselves - and appreciate their own gifts, as well as others. Of course bragging is never charming, but it should not be seen as wrong to take pride in what you are good at, and enjoy doing.
People often seem to think that you can't be intelligent, and a good person. It is as if, the more exceptional someone is, the more we are looking to tear them down, because we feel inadequate about ourselves. Not because we can't be intelligent, but because we don't have the mental energy to improve ourselves, or don't believe it is possible. To me, that way of thinking just seems petty and insecure.
A society rise by lifting each other; the more strong people become, the more they can help others be strong, and contribute with valuable abilities in society. Not by tearing down excellence or forcing people with various different gifts to let them waste away.
At age 66 I had a two-day series of testing at a university psychology department when I was worried about dementia and also about whether or not I had Asperger's syndrome. I was referred by a neurologist. It turned out to be an IQ test (don't know which kind) which disappointed me as I was worried about my forgetfulness and confusion, not my intelligence. My overall score was quite high, though, just under that 130 point, which was a surprise because I always thought I was average or less. I wish I had had this earlier in my life; it would have boosted my lagging confidence. The big difference was that Medicare covered the cost of all this; otherwise I could never have afforded it.
Following this I had an assessment at a private psychologist's practice to determine High Functioning Autism which was confirmed. But I still worried about my failing mind so I thought it was all too little, too late and there was nothing to do about my poorly functioning brain. I was told that the IQ test would be a great baseline to help determine future decline if it were to happen so I guess it was worth it.
Hello, I am also on the spectrum, I have been diagnosed as gifted with aspergers. I have been going to therapy from childhood. My therapist a cognitive specialist diagnosed me as gifted with 2e. I want to ask as an older neurodivergent how has life heen for you?.
@@ritvicpaarekh6963 I got no help or recognition in childhood or adulthood until 2015; no one had even heard of autism or Asperger's. I just had to use my intelligence, which I thought I did not have much of, with great diligence to figure things out and deal with depression most of my years. I identify primarily as a survivor; I simply put all my energy into figuring it out, figuring it out, figuring it out. I didn't have any expectation that life would be easy. Turned out that I discovered my talents and found a way to apply them that was valuable to people in that field (and without a college education). I think the success in that and my life was and still is the willingness to endure, to move forward, to keep trying. To survive.
I never knew what the range is, but apparently I would qualify. But as Groucho Marx said, "I would never want to be a part of a group who would accept me as a member"! Ha!
I joined back in 2002 based on my GRE scores; they considered it equivalent to an IQ test. I consider it a good excuse to socialize.
My grandfather was invited but didn't go. He preferred fishing, hunting, and playing piano. I can't imagine him sitting in a room, talking to others people and debating on abstracts facts for the sake of showing off how intelligent you are. ( that how he imagined that group ) he liked so mutch to be outside in nature. Here, in the wood with his friends, he was happy. When I was older, he bring me with them and it was the greatest time of my life. I didn't know he was so knowledgeable before that. For me, he was my grandfather. That's it.
Using a 2-dimensional, linear scale to rate intelligence is like using a ruler to measure an individual's creative ability.
@The Black Dawn/Ajjqi 😉👌
In the US, when I was in elementary school, the school district psychologist would measure your IQ. If you scored above a certain number, you could be enrolled in the exceptionally gifted program. Many students in that IQ range, had less than average experiences socializing with peers during the years that others made friends more easily. Some of us grew up with high academic expectations and low popularity with peers. As adults, we find some common fallout.
I found that MENSA in a populous area,offers groups which participated numerous activities. I have had trouble in everyday groups and thought that joining MENSA might give me more comfortable ways to pursue hobbies because we would share certain characteristics.
There are many forms of intelligence which exceed the assessment capabilities of I.Q. testing. I've never met a person from whom I could not learn something.
I think wisdom and intuition among others are very important.
I meet them all the time actually and its more than 90% of people that i know.
@aaronsdavis LOVE your response.
Then you are pretty stupid and ignorant because most people are dumb and boring. So you either can't learn anything from them or not interested in learning them at all.
@@GodFormHermet Just curious -- Why remark in the nasty way you chose? Was there something bugging you, so you took it out on the internet by calling people derogatory names? Seriously ... I'm curious about what provoked you to use the descriptives: stupid, ignorant, dull & boring?
Highly intelligent people really don’t ever seem to have terrible lives. They may not all be wildly successful, but they’re busy, comfortable and enjoy their lives.
I recently joined Mensa just to broaden my social horizons... I met wonderful people ...pretty cool ...definitely not narcissistic.
"Trust me, I have a high IQ"
... back away ...
Sound advice
this works as both narration and a reply
I am a Mensan. Iike most Mensans, I don't tell people that I am a member. Like most Mensans, I did not actively seeking membership. I joined out curiosity when I read that the required ,GRE score was lower than mine.
It is a social organization, so we use it to socialize.
Asbeger Syndrome people are overrepresented, and Mensa is a great social outlet for some of them.
Well said, Jerry. It is a social organization, and I suspect there are many former members, like myself, who haven't renewed their membership due to a lack of interest to socialize. Like you, I don't tell people that I joined Mensa (last renewal was two years ago), in fact, I ask my wife not to mention it to people. After watching this video, I get the sense the speaker tries to de-legitimize Mensa's qualifications because of the possible scenarios of testing multiple times to get in, or forging a certifying letter. While this may occur, it seems likely to be a small number and a few exceptions do not render the 98% percentile requirement "meaningless". I think we need more encouragement for people to develop their strengths, including intelligence, and Mensa is a great way to do that.
Yes, Dr. Grande, I have heard people brag about their high IQ and I found that they generally lacked humility. To make matters worse they would correct others during casual conversation. It’s a “turn off”.
Being a black woman, if I run into someone who says that black people are ENTER STEREOTYPE HERE, I present myself as an individual that goes against their negative stereotypes, including my intelligence and accomplishments.
Hi, Dr. Grande: I watched this video (Mensa & Narcissism), with great interest. I've watched quite a few of your other videos, as well. But, at the conclusion of this particular one, I couldn't help but think/say, "What a beautiful person he (you, Dr. Grande) is."
No, it’s about having a similar vibe. It’s about liking to be informed, learn new things and have great conversations.
A lot are somewhat eccentric, so what? It’s a safe space...It’s not about sex or drinking or hustling another dime....
Yes, the activities are the reason. They are nice people.
I am a member of Mensa, and really never even think about it. I guess I know that I am smart enough to know that I have many, many unanswered questions and that there are a hell of a lot of people smarter than I am.
I always saw Mensa folks as those who were smart but the last kid picked on a team. Mensa was a means to be the big fish in a small pond. You’re correct about not being in the top 2%: I took a sample test 40 years ago and qualified to take their test and I’m only above average, nowhere near genius level. Boasting means you’ve defined your life in that narrow scope. Impressive is the person who knows but doesn’t need to brag, others can see it.
I don’t know what my IQ is but I certainly feel smarter after watching your videos:)😉
This was excellent!👌🏼
if you can understand this dumbo , then prob between 100-110
@@bulabuakn4013 that's deep bro. Are you in Mensa?
@@WilhelmFreidrich 100-110 is average for a college graduate.
You're brilliant in my eyes, it gets fatiguing watching so many self professed geniuses.
I had thought of joining. I'm one to want in depth detailed discussion on topics that bore anyone I know.
I don't have a large circle and I don't have access to academics and others who would enjoy these drawn out discussions of varied topics.
I'm often stuck not having those satisfying discussions at all or when I do it's a one of. It's hard to find people who will enjoy that.
Being naturally talented at sports or music and joining groups that share this characteristic is not seen as elitist. Yet many are born with strong abilities or a fine vocal apparatus.
Why on earth would being born with the ability to solve puzzles or be interested in discussing, for hours on end, the nebulous zone where AI meets philosophy be more narcissistic then jamming with your musical group?
Is a good singer being narcissistic when she belts out a high note that few humans have cords for?
I am sad to see that you assume readily and easily what people who want to be in these groups think and feel and further that we can easily meet people who share our interests.
It’s actually very true. I think because it’s easy to get deluded by ones own intelligence into believing one is more competent than one really is is what may fuel the problem. I think if you’re genuinely intelligent and just want to have a circle of likeminded individuals just to have company with people who can understand you, there’s nothing wrong with that at all. It’s about humility and satisfying that individual social need.
I have an example🙋🏻♀️. My mom moved recently and gave me bins of old papers from when my sister and I were in school. In there, I found some testing my sister went through in kindergarten. She tested in the 99.9th percentile in reading, 99.7 in math. I was fairly shocked- I knew she was smart, but wow. I called her and told her. Her boyfriend was there at the time and he seemed to be fairly intrigued by my discovery. Point is, telling your significant other might make them more attracted to you, if you're smooth in your presentation. 🤷🏻♀️
I once took a preliminary Mensa test out of curiosity, but afterwards when I had the chance to take a more in depth one to see where in the Top 2% I'd be, I declined because even as a teenager the idea of spending money to be able to claim you're a genius and go attend circle jerks with other geniuses seemed incredibly stupid. I think Mensa teaches us that even the smartest people are capable of doing dumb things.