I always forget that a Spell Theif can counter a counter spell and disable that caster's counterspell, gaining the ability to cast counterspell, all in one reaction.
When talking about DM’s that didn’t let you buy or have any magic items I had awful flashbacks I played my campaign for almost 2 years and never had more than the 10 gold I started with
It's the most valuable and painful of lessons: when it comes to this game, try to find an experienced Storyteller over a veteran DM. Everyone has different ideas of what a DM should bring to the table, but everyone can agree when they have been able to play with an experienced storyteller. A ST understands character development, in the vein of the Heroes Journey, is just as important as the game they want to run on everyone.
In defense of the thief rogue's Fast Hands feature, if you use this in conjunction with the healer feat, then you become the party healer that can heal as a bonus action in combat. There are some pretty sweet builds based on this application. Additionally, items like caltrops, ball bearings, acid vials, and alchemical fire technically use this feature.
I think what really kills thief rogue is the fact that arcane trickster gets a similar feature with mage hand legerdemain as well as being 1/4th caster.
@@Shichiaikan, it's once per short rest per character. Meaning that you can use it multiple times per day. Combined with the Inspiring Leader Feat for preventative healing, which is also once per short rest, you don't need a magical healer in the party.
I said the same. You are supposed to use it all the time. Attacking from being hidden gives advantage, which means crit fishing. If you get rushed you rush with a dash while still being allowed to attack. If you have to escape from close combat you use disengage to escape without having to prep your a-hole for all of the violation you will otherwise get trying to run.
@@Cloud_Seeker Yeaaaaaah, this just tells me that he's never actually played a Rogue. It's more accurate to say, "You won't get significant mileage out of this more than a few times a combat, so your value on this may vary", but uh. This ability literally allows the Rogue to function as an effective Sneak Attacker, because this is a game of positioning. Bad analysis imho.
Bringing an axe down on the neck of any sleeping target IS an automatic critical if it hits because while sleeping a creature is Unconcious and any hit against an Unconcious creature within 5ft is an auto crit.
The point being that there is no chance of failure if they aren't resisting and you have easy access to their jugular, yet the game makes it seem like combat rules are mandatory. If a wizard with more hp than your sneak attack gets assasinated by you and they don't notice your presence, how does their ability to keep fighting and will to survive [a.k.a. hp] calculate in?
@@esperthebard My bad, I was doing work while listening to the video. As a DM I would say you still need to roll to hit but obviously with advantage. Like any other combat, all people involved roll initiative first but the initially unaware creature is surprised the first round if you beat their perception with stealth or possibly deception, sleight of hand, or performance. Rolling initiative simulates someone's split second ability to react in combat. Even if I am a wizard and am the one being attacked while eating and I win the initiative roll, I am still surprised my first turn and cannot act. The enemy attacks at advantage, but because I won initiative and am no longer surprised, I can now take reactions at the last moment and maybe cast Shield. It's just an example, but that's why we roll initiative. It simulates your ability to spring into action. Maybe it was the sound of the enemy's blade ringing through the air towards my neck that tipped me off. Maybe I saw their reflection at the last second in a window coming up behind me. It's only when you are unconscious or paralyzed that it is physically impossible to use your fast twitch muscles to reactively dodge an attack. That's what makes the assassin unique. The ability to auto crit anyone surprised represents their skill and ability to take away any chance of seeing/hearing/sensing them coming so a surprised target won't do that split second reaction to dodge making it so they are standing still for the assassin as if they were unconcious.
@@ATinyWaffle The following is only food for thought and not meant to insult you or the way you DM games. This world needs more DMs and DnD players. Keep DM-ing. Much love, stay safe. In my opinion, if you sneak up on an unsuspecting enemy, that doesn't notice you, there is no need for any initiative roll at this point in the game. After the attack has been dealt and if the target is still alive and/or other creatures are in the vicinity, yes. Because then the assassination has evolved into a combat scenario. You bring up the argument: "Rolling initiative simulates someone's split second ability to react in combat." Well, the assassination isn't combat, yet in my opinion. Combat is two parties battling each other, which isn't happening here. The unsuspecting enemy is not battling me. If the enemy notices the Rogue, because of how the stealth and perception rolls played out, then the assassination attempt will of course fail and combat will be started (with initiative rolls and no one being surprised). But if the Rogue successfully sneaks up on his opponent - decided by the dice - and is able to land that strike on him, there is no - to quote you - "the sound of the enemy's blade ringing through the air towards my neck that tipped me off". If there was any sound, that tipped you off, that would have been determined by the stealth rolls / perception rolls. Let's say the Rogue fails his stealth roll. You could then say, that "as your Rogue gets close to the target's back, drawing the dagger you make a slight noise, that tips off the enemy to your presence. The enemy is aware of you. Roll initiative." But if the stealth roll of the Rogue was successful, why would there be anything, that tips the target off to any presence? If I play this Rogue this just means to me, that my stealth rolls do not matter at all. Because even if I get a 30 with bonuses, there might always something at the last nanosecond "tipping my opponent off". So I don't even bother rolling for stealth in the first place and just walk in, daggers drawn. Of course, if there was combat initiated by someone else and the Rogue of the party manages to sneak around the backside of the room on the first round (or starts doing so even before combat is initiated) into his targets back and attack him, then we'd also have the whole "Assassinate" feature of the Assassin Rogue playing out. But if the Rogue sneaks up on someone before any open combat has been initialized, I don't think there should be any initiative orders, that need to be rolled. Enemies noticing the Rogue, that's what the perception rolls of everyone in the room and the stealth roll of the Rogue are there for. Not initiative orders (again, in my opinion). You get what I mean?
I played a thief in a recent campaign. The fast hands feature allows you to "make a slight of hand check"*comma* which means you can do anything that requires a slight of hand check as a bonus action. So you can walk up to an enemy, disarm them as a special attack, then use your bonus action to steal their backup weapon. You can also multiclass into other classes that give extra attack so you can immediately stab them with their own weapon. (With adv. if you DM is cool, since you literally just took their weapons away.)
"My name is Shadow Blacksaber, my family was mutilated in front of me, and i was raised by the ones who mutilated them. I was trained, abused and tortured. Yet I survived, and unleashed my rage over them. Now, I roam the world, saving people from having the life I had." "Ok...how about you Bob?" "Im Jibb the bard, and I like collecting cactus so I can have the Ultimate Cactus Colection."
"Shadow Blacksaber." Hmm. it would seem, just from the name, that the rogues who kidnapped you should have asked your name first. Would have saved a lot of bother later. "Oh, the youngest of the Blacksaber's, well that's Shadow." Next.
I love the Arcane Trickster. We were fighting this Lich and we were heavily wounded but wining, when the Lich attempted to run away, so I tried block it's path. It then used Power Word Kill on me. We were around the corner and the Wizard couldn't use Counterspell. Without the Spell Thief feature I would have been dead.
but you couldn't spell thief power word kill .. you are limited to spells of 1st level or higher that are of a level you could cast, and there is no way you could cast a 9th level sell as a rogue with at least 17 levels
@@Tersidian It depends on when this happened. 5th Edition has recieved many updates (Called "Errata") throughout the years. It could be that part of the ability had yet to be added.
@@The_Crimson_Witch technically true, but checked in a first print (august 2014) and checked official errata documents for PHB before posting, so i'm about 99% sure that it has always been a part of the Spell Thief feature, of course it still could be a house ruling or a simple "Rule of Cool" application
@@Tersidian The way I read it, you can use Spell Thief to negate spells of any lvl, but you only get to actually steal spells that are of a low enough lvl.
Esper, hope you’re doing well man. Thanks for all this great content. As soon as I’m back in the saddle, I’ll show some proper appreciation. I think I’ve rewatched all your monster tier stuff just in the past few days. Cheers mate.
My first D&D character was a rogue. I've always had a fondness for rogues and spellcasters in various RPGs, so it was very fitting that my first and most beloved persona in the D&D world was an Arcane Trickster.
Magical Ambush, "Starting at 9th level, if you are hidden from a creature WHEN YOU CAST A SPELL on it, the creature has disadvantage on any saving throw it makes AGAINST THE SPELL THIS TURN."
I misread the arcane trickster's magical ambush. It only gives disadvantage on the enemy's saving throws this turn. I guess the wording confused me, because it says "any saving throws", but keep reading, dangling on a little line afterwards ... "this turn." Well, still a great feature.
About to watch the video, but just wanted to chip in: I think Arcane Trickster is the most powerful 3rd/4th level class in the game, you have Cunning Action, Sneak Attack, Cantrips, and 1st level spells at 3rd level?? Amazing at that level, though Arcane Trickster quickly levels off in power.
Levels 6-12 are pretty good. They get expertise in two more skills, then they get Shadow Blade, Invisibility, and Evasion, then they get an ASI, then they get Magical Ambush, then they get an ASI, then they get reliable talent, then they get an ASI (and they still pick up 3 D6 of Sneak attack in this range). Level 7 is especially powerful. All of those ASIs & Feats are great, especially for a Rogue that might want to grab war caster and resilient constitution to keep shadow blade up during combat, and might also be intrigued by Lucky (or Elven Accuracy), Mage Slayer, Sharpshooter, Defensive Duelist, Dual Wielder, Alert, or Ritual Caster. They'll for sure have 20 dexterity by this time, so the extra ASI/feat at level 10 gives them a lot of customization options. Level 5 is disappointing though. Martial classes get extra attack, spell casters get 3rd level spells and a 2nd damage die for their cantrips. And Rogues get another D6 of Sneak Attack and Uncanny Dodge.
To be honest I find most of the 1/3rd level casters have alot of problems namely the fact they are limited to two spells schools and in an edition were the spell lists have been massivly cut back on.
instead of blindsense at 14th level, I allow players to take " crafty escape". when you disengage, you blind a single Target that you would have provoked an opportunity attack from till the end of your turn. this can be done by throwing a cloth in their face, or throwing powder in there eyes or something. the idea is to let a rogue disengage, and then hide without there attacker see where they're going. this let's them slip in and out of combat easily.
I am eagerly wait for the second part, where you will cover the rest of rogue subclasses. Very entertaining and funny video with awesome collection of expressive pictures, well done!
When you were describing the similarities between bard and arcane trickster, it occurred to me that they are the two classes Sam Riegel has played in the critical role major campaigns.
5:45 since this feature assumes all thieves know thieves cant, i like to flavor it up and say other thieves also have a thieves emblem in my games. So you know who you can actually use thieves cant with. It helps give the skill much more use.
At around 5:40 you talk about how the DM's Guide doesn't have a section on utilizing more flavorful/situational/RP-focused class features, and I think it's true in general. In AD&D there were whole books devoted to each class, but included in there would be tips for running a game with the character class in it, and ideas for making them stand out and feel heroic. There are usually commentaries on managing the different types of players that might join your group, but most of us know our friends. Ideas and reminders to plan around cool minor features would definitely be an improvement to the DMG!
When I started playing 5e I realised that 'rogues' weren't the only ones that could find traps, open locks and pick pockets. The problem is everyone can do what Thieves could in earlier editions. In 1st and 2nd and 3.5 it was essential to have a Thief in a party, now not so much...
"Lots of other classes can high amounts of damage, and many of them also have great options for dealing damage to multiple targets at once" When you say "Lots of other classes" you're talking about the casters aren't you? It's ok, the caster classes outdamage and out pace martial classes and if you're good (see war cleric 1/war magic wizard x) you basically a better eldritch knight. So it's ok, but at least they are on a resource while the rogues aren't I guess.
"see war cleric 1/wizard x" ? A limited number of """extra attacks""" that also eat your bonus action? No flaming sphere, no bigby, no animate objects? Sorry not seeing it. But its true EKs are shafted, and its sad that straigh bladesinger is better eldritch knight than an eldritch knight in 5e.
Ok Texteel and Buck I'll explain it. In the cleric spell prepare it says "You prepare the list of cleric spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the cleric spell list. When you do so, choose a number of cleric spells equal to your Wisdom modifier + your cleric level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots." It it says "of a level for which you have spell clots" it means level spells. Cleric and Wizards are full casters so let's say level 1 war cleric/ war magic (for example) wizard 2 you still have 4 1st level and 2 2nd level spells. This is or your cleric spells so if you go 19 levels of wizard and 1 level of war wizard it means you have the full spell slots with the cleric spell list with your wizard spell list. The bonus action attack of war priest is icing on the top of what the base class is. It gives martial weapons, heavy armor, Shield, and 2 bonus spells which are both pretty good with shield of faith syncing well with war magic wizard 10 giving you +4 to your AC on a 1st level spell slot. On top of a shield which gives +2. This is also not taking account you just need just 15 str to put on heavy armor and even then the only penalty is 10 feet reduction to movement speed which is a pay off for 16-18 base AC without a shield in hand. The drawback to Wizard is they are easy to hit, with war cleric you now have a bucky AC to any wizard you want. Combine that with basically 2 spell lists one being cleric and the other being wizard. Really you just need 14 Wis as you taking cleric spells to heal or to buff while using Int for your more offensive potiential. It's high flexibility with little to no cost if you got the stats for it.
@@texteel You still get flaming sphere, you still get Bigby, you still get animate objects. You just get healing magic as well along with posted AC. Hell you can now use your familiar to deliver healing spells. touch only cleric buffs.
@@WhyYouMadBoi 90% of the things of said work with multiple domains. You specified War domain. To use war domain exclusive things, you give up flaming sphere, bigby, animate objects. There goes half of your arguement. You get cleric spells with whichever domain, but lets see them, shall we? Now. Do you want heavy armor? How about forge? Make that heavy armor into a +1 heavy armor. Or life domain, to patch up your healing spells and not great wisdom. Tempest is also something that isnt the best for such a dip, with a reaction that only damages back. Nature domain also gives you heavy armor for some reason, a bonus cantrip and a skill. Order domain gives you armor, a skill, and constant utility. Hell, if you need just martial weapons, death domain also exsist. The only reason to go war over any of those, if you need armor AND martial weapon, for some reason.
Really enjoy your videos, Esper! As a DM who ran a years-long campaign to level 20 with a rogue in the party, I found Reliable Talent to be an insanely good ability. S-tier for sure on my list, and verging on overpowered. Especially in the hands of a player who isn't afraid to think outside the box, reliable talent might mean the ability to basically never fail a check to grapple an opponent,, never fail a perception check or stealth check, even to never fail a persuasion, deception, or intimidation check. That's full of so much potential to control any situation! The rogue in my game was a strength-based goliath thief with expertise in athletics and the grappler feat, so for most of the upper tier play in my game there would always be at least one combatant who literally could not move for the entire battle. Yes, my player was very clever with that design, but there were so many times Reliable Talent came into play. It's like the halfing luck feature multiplied by 10. I understand your gripe that a literal expert shouldn't miss a low DC skill check just because they rolled a natural "1," but to my mind as a DM if the character shouldn't be at risk of failing a skill check, then I shouldn't be asking them to roll. To use your example in the video: if the world-class expert dwarven blacksmith whose skills at the forge are legendary wants to craft a simple mundane weapon like they've been making since they were a child, that shouldn't require a roll.
My grandsons hid their goldfish... traumatizing. I told them that we have nothing to worry about because we have been subscribed for years but now they have PTSD. Great content as usual, Thank You!
played a gnome arcane trickster who used booming blade, shadow blade, and the mobile feat in conjunction. It was amazing and the most damaging rogue i have ever made.
One great thing about Arcane Trickster is getting Shadow Blade at level 7 (as an Illusion spell, so you don't have to wait until level 8). Automatic advantage in dim light and darkness is huge for a Rogue looking for Sneak Attack.
I would point out about thieves' Cant that it is like skills and like languages, it depends on the campagin, the reason it only appears the once in the players handbook is because like languages it is a matter of how characters communicate, and thus its use is on the agency that the books do the least for Role Play but I mean the system of D&D is designed first about its combat system, other RPGs do the implementation of roll playing as a mechanic based thing better, always have. At the edge of the slums, playing a heroic rogue, ask the DM if your Thieves' cant lets you see anything that your would recognize would reference a specific shop as an easy target for thieves. Go in change the mark to make it one that makes the store appear based on it as a tough target, and help the poor shop keep out with some of your patronage, the thing is that Most D&D campaign especially the official ones are not campaigns about subtly or subterfuge, and that is why the dialect of code is over looked, Same goes for Druidic though, it is easy to get into your game player or DM, if you are a player ask your DM if you are seeing anything that you recognize as signs of information from it, giving your DM another way of giving you information, If you are a DM make hints to your Rogue or even flat out tell them this thing is something you understand from this conversation or enviornment because of your understanding of the underbelly of society
Yeah, evasion did save my rogues life, against Meteor Swarm no less. Dove behind the merlock I was fighting, it got roasted, as did everything else. Downed the entire party, except me. Fortunately we had potions.
To keep things interesting, enemies in my game have some usable items that they will use in combat. This makes the thief really fun to pickpocket mid-combat.
My first d&d character was an elf rogue back at the beginning of 3.5. I was odd and focused on being a skill monkey and was only ok in a fight. We played that campaign for years even reached epic levels. Met my bestfriend in that group and took my first shot at running a sessions. Rogue will always hold a special place in my heart and it's always the first class I try with every new edition.
I too love “Reliable Talent,” for much the same reasons as Esper. I’ve yet to DM a game, but if I ever do, I plant to house-rule so that characters just get a certain level of base knowledge based on the makeup (class, background, proficiencies, etc.), since there are some things I figure characters should just KNOW. I.e. a cleric should know the basic tenants and history of their religion-unless the player has a has a good role playing reason not to.
Expertise cannot be applied to a tool proficiency apart from thief's tools. A better point would have been that the best crafters are humans, half elves and half orcs who took the Prodigy feat from Xanathar's.
I almost always play Rogues. Skills and versatility are top tier. I also love the quiet, sneaky, self reliant theme they have. They also multiclass so efficiently.
I mean everyone makes mistakes. The way I see it, Rolling Low just means you made a simple mistake outside of your control. An example would be fumbling a stealth check by accidentally stepping on a loose stone that slips free and alerts a few people down below in the streets. believable in my book.
But a 1 in 20 choices of doing this isnt realistic. In reality, beating a veteran of the form is incredibly unlikely, in-game, its very possible. If someone knoks over a vase 1 in 20 times, theyre gonna make an awful thief afterall. Someone who has a strength of 10 (completely average human), should never out wrestle a bodybuilder
@@avatarmufasa3628 without risk there is no game. Also rolling 2d10 instead of 1d20 leads to more consistent results with almost exactly the same range of outcomes. Simple fix.
Or a fly interrupts your concentration. A non-skilled person who rolls a 20 simply got lucky with what they tried to achieve. A skilled person that rolls low has a series of unfortunate events(various distractions or interruptions, usually out of their control) that might cause you to fail what you were doing.
I've had some good luck, the occasional back to back 20, one time I got 7 20 in a row however.... I usally role like a professional golf player, trying to get the ball in a blackhole at the center of a crater. As someone who roles terrible, absolutely atrocious most of the time, it matters. I play dnd because I want to succeed, to do well, not because I want to be a complete idiot who can't achieve the one thing I was built to do, the only thing my parties expects of me and yet it happens all to often. In 4e I could stack a skill so high that even on a 1 I would still pass. Maybe if I stretched it I could get 3 skills I didn't have to worry about failing. But in 5e you can be a God of music and still suck at a performance check to play THE most basic instrument. Nothing quite as sucky as the gm bending the rules giveing double advantage on a roll and you failing 3 times in a row, then doing it again 5min later and getting your party caught and thrown into the a hole. If it were real life nobody would accept the character into their party (konasuba) and I would Mercy kill the character. It sucks and it would be nice to be a master at at least one thing without haveing to worry about failing.
So far my favorite archetype for the Rouge is Swashbuckler. I had a blast playing it in my friend's political intrigue and investigation urban themed game. Had the chance to get into a couple of one on one duels as well. I played a face duelist (using Expertise to pump up my social skills) I will admit, not sure how well the Swashbuckler would do in a dungeon crawl game though. Looking forward to your analyses.
Whenever someone who is supposed to be a pro at a particular skill rolls super low on it, I like to flavor it in a way that makes it less hurtful. Perhaps the Barbarian knew more about that magic item than the wizard because his tribe had a story about it, or the Ranger didn't have a shot go wide, but that ogre moved his club in the way of the arrow right at the last second, things like that.
I do like to mix it with healers kits, ball bearings, caltrops, the previous two mixed together, bags of flour, tinderboxes, bags of flour and then tinderboxes, and miscellaneous
Having a lot of fun with an inquisitive rogue. It is much better in reality than it seems on the paper. Expertise in Insight and Perception, 20WIS at level 8 plus observant feat is damm cool. I find arcane trickster and inquisitve the most fun rogue subclasses to play. Mastermind is special because of the help action, but after sometime becomes boring. Rogues are cool, but the combat is more or less always the same (hit and hide). Inquisitive rogues have some kind of unique freedom. You attack whichever target you like, you have free bonus actions for RP, search, disengage, and even sometimes to hide. It is more demanding strategically. Swashbucklers have something similar, but I prefer Inquisitve's flavor and RP potential. Like Esper said, instead of playing an arcane trickster, I'd rather play a bard. Instead of Swashbluckler, a fighter, a bard or even a bladesinger. Unless I build a pirate...
For me, generally speaking I make all attacks against a creature that was caught entirely unaware a crit. Assassins get to deal the absolute max damage possible when they succeed an attack against a surprised opponent.
I do still use nat ones as some bizzare rare event happens even if you have an ability like a reliable talent. Like you're trying to sneak, but there happened to be a black cat in the shadows and it yowled when you got too close. That master smith, maybe there was a crack in the handle of their hammer and it just broke in the middle of the work. You can easily write it off as one of the assistants broke the hammer then put it back and its not actually the skilled character's fault, just events outside their control.
The thing about the Assassin is that Assassinate get's better naturally as Sneak Attack gets better. Therefore, not every other ability has to be so directly, proportionately useful as an ability at that level. Judging them as so ignores the context. This is true of a lot of leveled abilities: they're not balanced proportionally to each other, but overall.
Agreed. Also, some of these abilities does not require the same "checks" that a spell of similar use does. When you create a false identity or impersonate someone, everyone thinks you are said person and will only be suspicious if your behaviour is odd. It also bypasses anti-magic fields and the like. There is no time limit either. Combine it with feats like Actor, Keen Mind or Observant for even greater effect.
since use magic item removes racial restrictions, i recall a campaign in eberron where our insane rogue melded terrifying warforged enhancements into his changeling body, making one helluva spectacle.
An error: The Arcane Trickster's feature Magical Ambush is described as imposing disadvantage against a spell cast from hiding, including ongoing damage. But the PHB says the creature has "disadvantage against any saving throw it makes against the spell THIS TURN." Unless the ongoing damage all occurs on the same turn as the spell is cast, the imposed disadvantage is more limited than as presented here.
I love the Thief thematically, all of it’s abilities are dripping with flavor but they just aren’t good until level 13. Second story work is super good for getting around but it won’t do you and good in the thick of a fight. Fast hands is just straight up bad, sure it’d be cute to pickpocket a guard while dueling him with your rapier but it’d be easier to take his stuff after killing him. *SUPREME SNEAK* is a joke. It’s thematic but it’s also total trash. If you got a second ability at 9th level I wouldn’t mind but that’s it. Use magic device is sooo good! Pro tip ask the party’s wizard to make you some low level scrolls to carry around, low level spells are pretty cheap to make and they’ll give you a lot of versatility. Thief’s reflexes is obviously the best ability you get as it should be. Getting a second turn on the first round of combat is wild, you can get 2 sneak attacks which can take out a big target and turn the tides of combat, alternatively if you aren’t interested in fighting you can run a total of 180 feet during the first round of combat and if that doesn’t get you to safety it should at least put a few of your friends between you and your enemy.
When coming up with a backup character for a mid level campaign, needed to plan to start several levels in. Was considering an Arcane Trickster, but decided on 1st level of rouge, then the rest in Bard. A lot easier to shore up shortcomings in the party, especially if my current character bites the dust.
Rogues have been my favorite class from the first time I played Baldur's Gate. My favorite archetype is the Thief. I believe you underestimate the value of supreme sneak and the synergy it provides. Having advantage on stealth rolls is very powerful for stealth for scouting missions and in combat areas with plenty of spots to hide in. The half movement speed is for each action. Cunning action can initiate the hide, and 30ft of moment could still happen. Combining this with the skulker feat makes it overpowered as the rouge can just hide in dim light, and actively hide from creatures with darkvision in darkness. This is before applying the penalty on the perception check for trying to see things in dim light. A thief rogue 9th level and with 18dex will have +7 to stealth checks, and +10 if they took stealth as their expertise. Advantage puts a lot of favor on to that rogue as, at least in my games, once you are hidden you stay until revealed somehow; making the half movement speed a one round cost. Two levels later they get reliable talent and proficiency; putting them at +8 and +12 depending on expertise. This makes the minimum roll 18 or 22; now add advantage. It may get to be overkill at some point, but it gives the player a mindset they are a master of stealth especially as it only takes a bonus action to do.
I dm'd a homebrew where I allowed rogue/mage classes to do automatic criticals on spells at the cost of temporarily "burning" an intelligence point. For the cost of 2 intelligence points they could max out their damage. Lost intelligence points returned at the rate of 1 point a day. Overuse of this ability would trigger a dark powers check. This was a Ravenloft campaign (which they did not know about until it was too late) and all the PCs eventually went insane or turned into a gibbering horror Call of Cthulu style.
Fun note on evasion. Last night in our game, my monk and our rogue - level 7 - were the only two targets of a baddies Fireball. So satisfying when neither of us took any of that 30+ damage. Thought they were also trying to destroy a barricade we had made.
Thief is amazing for an urban campaign. I did a Shadow Sorcerer/Thief in a Ravnica campaign, casting darkness, climbing buildings, shooting someone, and then jumping down on someone the next turn. It was great.
Thiefs fast hands can be used to poison blades or up to 3 bolts/arrowheads (using normal poison) And later can be used for more expensive poisons that hurt much more! Also caltrops are amazing, a bear trap can just stop people, ball bearings are an amazing escape tool, also alchemist fire and oil are an early bonus action extra attack.
Thx again, Esper. If you could include, at some point, which rogue subtype is your favorite for a 3-4 level dip. I think you'd have a really cool perspective on that. Thanks.
I use cunning action every turn in my theater of the mind game. So hard disagree there. Also Supreme Sneak is great outside of combat. Assassinate is super inconsistent, just watch Critical Role I think Vax gets it off 10 times in 115 sessions of play. Magic is easy to detect (1st level spell lol) and antimagic exists for a reason. Rogue abilities don't care about that giving them the edge over casters in many high-level situations. Reliable Talent is S tier in any campaign that isn't purely combat-focused. Period, end of story. Rolled a 1 cool that's 25 thanks to the expertise and reliable talent. Thinking it's something that should be baked into the rules (which is counter to bounded accuracy) is no reason to underrate it. The capstone isn't perfect but it also means that the rogue can just choose to do 20d6 to someone. That's fucking crazy. In short, I think you should spend more time actually experiencing the martial classes instead of just reading them. Sincerely, someone who owns with rogues.
I agree with and disagree with you. I love the Rouge and there are a lot of things you can do with it, however the wizards ablitie to out shine most classes is ridiculous. While It dosent make me play wizard always it really sucks when the wizard steam rolled my Rouge. A lot of this comes down to the gm putting in more work to balance the game. And with busy schedules and work this dosent happen enough. I usally find the gm swing to the extremes, either never putting in blocks to wizard makeing them out class everyone or always putting in the blocks makeing the person wonder why they even chose to play. I've had a lot of gms and a good gm will make a game one of the best ways to spend your life. But most gms have reality to condend with and usally go rules as written with a some prep advantage wizard.
9:41 Never forget the proverb, "to err is human." This is exactly how skills work in real life. Master artisans make mistakes all the time -- you just don't see the contents of masters' garbage bins on display. The same is true of machine and robot operated assembly lines. No amount of training, skill, or equipment eliminates the risk for error, and only hubris can remove all doubt in oneself.
Our DM ended up using Thieves' Cant as a way to mark thieves' hideouts. My character was a Level 4 Artificer/Level 1 Rogue so I was the only one who could navigate through the traps. As a sidenote: Artificers have one of the best capstone features in the game, Soul of Artifice. Dear god, Soul of Artifice is SCARY. And they're the only half casting class that get cantrips. I tend to main Create Bonfire as my cantrip of choice as a method of blocking exits with fire.
I'd say... Whenever you use your Bardic Inspiration, you can target up to your Charisma Modifier of allies to bestow your inspiration. And if you apparently want Esper the Bard levels of 20, inspiration grants advantage on your roll.
Cant argue with the incredible damage though. It's actually really good in more urban campaign settings or if you set up the situation itself. And Assassin Rogue is built around setting up perfect kills (though that package is questionable)
Was home over Christmas break once and hit up a local shop to play some adventures league games. Tried playing a kobold thief rogue named Sticks. I think it was the beginning of Dungeon of the Mad Mage but all I remember is an underground dungeon with 10 ft wide halls, low ceilings, hardly any traps or locks, and nothing that needed investigating as all treasure was simply in plain sight. I couldn't use any of my special movement features to climb, I relied on pack tactics for sneak attack because there was nothing to hide behind, and over all felt useless and was horribly bored. Dropped the character entirely and came back next week with a different one. If you get to do espionage or are in places like cities where you can make ample use of the thief's abilities and buy items to use like caltrops, acid, and alchemist fire you'll probably have a good time, but dungeon crawling with one was awful.
Just a tip for people who want to play Assassins. The Flying Snake is a harmless CR 1/8 Tiny Beast with a unique element to it. It's poison does 3d4 damage, which, ok, that's pretty mediocre most of the time, except, oh look, there's no Saving Throw on a Flying Snake's poison. meaning it's a guaranteed damage to your opponent. Now there's no lingering side-effects like paralysis or neurological damage or anything like that. It's just damage. But let me explain another detail. When you successfully hit a Critical Hit, you don't just roll the weapon's damage die again. You roll ALL damage die again. This includes Sneak Attack Damage. This includes Poison Damage. So if you for instance, coat your rapier, which is 1d8 damage, and have 2d6 Sneak Attack, that's 2d8+6d4+4d6. This is something you can pull off at Level 3 very easily
Esper, question for you sir. I have a player in my group that took the Bloodhunter class and at lvl 7 he's multiclassed with Rogue. He is the perfect example of the minmaxer. Every time he takes a turn it gives me a headache. His explanations for all the things he dose just make me give up. How can I reel him in without being obvious?
Arcane tricksters can pair well with Eldritch Knights and Gloomstalker Rangers. Also, that mage hand for advantage can be helpful if you are a creature of the dark like a drow or kobold caught in the daylight. A straight role is always better than disadvantage in those cases.
First! Also, love the vid, I'm playing a rouge ATM, it's super fun, though I need to add some flavour, simply a thieving bastard isn't fun, so right now I'm doing an inventor rouge who can't afford materials, and so steals them. It's really fun!
I'm trying to make a rouge character that's a changeling hitman good at killing without anyone knowing and pinning the blame on others by planting evidence. At lower level assassin should work, but it'll be terrible at higher level. Is there a better subclass for this? Or should I think about multiclassing into whisper bard?
All rogues do alot of damage due to sneak attack being a main class feature. But for damage, it's between assassin and arcane trickster. Assassin's call to fame regarding damage obviously comes from assassinate. However, arcane tricksters deals additional damage due to ramping damage of SCAG cantrips alongside spells like shadowblade. It's east for an arcane trickster to deal an average of 32 damage consistently at level 5.
In my world rogues have (like everyone else) a guild tattoo. A rampant unicorn. Though few people know what it means and rougues have professional lingo just as everyone else in the word. Rouges don't share this lingo with anyone else. My personal rogue was an assassin. And a government contractor killing those deemed enemies of the nation.
My suggestion for the assassins ninth level ability, hair thief, if the assassin gets their hands on a hair of a particular person when they encounter this person again burn the hair, it just burns up in their hands, and give the target disadvantage on all mental savings throws. Do you think this is balanced or do you think it’s over powered. Or under powered.
I think people underestimate the power of being able to set up your party for even bigger hits like a thief first round sneak atk first action help second action to set up advantage for say a paladin to GWM and increase the chance for a crit plus smite.
Only issue I have is that in campaigns I've played in the Assassinate feature almost never comes up (at least the part about critical hits). As the party tends to be the ones that are ambushed/walks into a room with monsters to which we both notice each other at the same time. The only time in which a surprised condition ever occurs is when the Rouge goes in to stealthy initiate the fight, to which almost never happens as we never know of the situation beforehand and are able to make a plan. Now the feature isn't bad as the Advantage against creatures who haven't had their turn is pretty nice and guarantees a turn 1 sneak attack, but I don't think that even makes up for the rest of the 3rd level ability as some other classes get better and more useful abilities such as the divination wizards portent dies, or the bear totem barb resistance to ALL dmg (except psychic).
But that is entirely your party's fault. There are several ways for the party to scout ahead unnoticed(many spells) so that you can formulate a plan. Even the Assassin itself could be sent to scout ahead, then report back with what they have learned. Obviously, it wont be possible for every encounter(when you are actively being chased or chasing something), but for the typical "let us explore this area" situation, you should have the means to learn about your surroundings without being detected.
I would be more inclined to agree with you on the Level 20 ability issue, if you would provide a suggestion of what you would craft for the class instead? I think it's a pretty neat ability, but I can see where it is lack luster. So what would be the ultimate ability to embody the Rogue?
I always forget that a Spell Theif can counter a counter spell and disable that caster's counterspell, gaining the ability to cast counterspell, all in one reaction.
So you can counter a counter with a counter which takes his counter as your own counter to later use as another counter to counter his counter.
@@jpc4803 it's like a pokemon learning the move disable from their opppent and then disabling their disable lol.
Not really, spell thief can be used when your character is affected by a spell. Counter spell affects spells.
@@yotuel9064 but targets the caster, so it effects them
When talking about DM’s that didn’t let you buy or have any magic items I had awful flashbacks I played my campaign for almost 2 years and never had more than the 10 gold I started with
My god that's terrible
I gave your comment a heart not because I'm glad you never got any magic items, but hopefully to cast a cure wounds on your painful memories.
@@esperthebard I believe that would be a calm emotions. Cure wounds heals only physical damage, I've tried.
GOOD LORD WHAT KIND OF SOCIOPATH WAS YOUR DM?!?
It's the most valuable and painful of lessons: when it comes to this game, try to find an experienced Storyteller over a veteran DM. Everyone has different ideas of what a DM should bring to the table, but everyone can agree when they have been able to play with an experienced storyteller. A ST understands character development, in the vein of the Heroes Journey, is just as important as the game they want to run on everyone.
In defense of the thief rogue's Fast Hands feature, if you use this in conjunction with the healer feat, then you become the party healer that can heal as a bonus action in combat. There are some pretty sweet builds based on this application. Additionally, items like caltrops, ball bearings, acid vials, and alchemical fire technically use this feature.
Too bad you can only use that healer feat ability once per day per character... but that is a damned nice use.
I think what really kills thief rogue is the fact that arcane trickster gets a similar feature with mage hand legerdemain as well as being 1/4th caster.
@@Shichiaikan, it's once per short rest per character. Meaning that you can use it multiple times per day. Combined with the Inspiring Leader Feat for preventative healing, which is also once per short rest, you don't need a magical healer in the party.
@@carsonrush3352 on top of using magic items that use Healing without class restrictions, yeah, Theif has a lot of versatility in the right hands.
Kobold press monster manuels look. it up
"Cunning Action won't be used much."
Excuse me what?
I said the same. You are supposed to use it all the time. Attacking from being hidden gives advantage, which means crit fishing. If you get rushed you rush with a dash while still being allowed to attack. If you have to escape from close combat you use disengage to escape without having to prep your a-hole for all of the violation you will otherwise get trying to run.
@@Cloud_Seeker Yeaaaaaah, this just tells me that he's never actually played a Rogue. It's more accurate to say, "You won't get significant mileage out of this more than a few times a combat, so your value on this may vary", but uh. This ability literally allows the Rogue to function as an effective Sneak Attacker, because this is a game of positioning.
Bad analysis imho.
Really disappointed in this review who has played Rogue to 13th. He really giving a bad review the cunning action feature.
if you have +100 persuasion and convince your DM that cunning action should include Dodge, well then...
@@schintzel That is the monks ability.
Bringing an axe down on the neck of any sleeping target IS an automatic critical if it hits because while sleeping a creature is Unconcious and any hit against an Unconcious creature within 5ft is an auto crit.
That's true, though I wasn't talking about an unconscious target, but rather someone who is like eating, reading, or otherwise really distracted.
The point being that there is no chance of failure if they aren't resisting and you have easy access to their jugular, yet the game makes it seem like combat rules are mandatory. If a wizard with more hp than your sneak attack gets assasinated by you and they don't notice your presence, how does their ability to keep fighting and will to survive [a.k.a. hp] calculate in?
@@esperthebard My bad, I was doing work while listening to the video. As a DM I would say you still need to roll to hit but obviously with advantage. Like any other combat, all people involved roll initiative first but the initially unaware creature is surprised the first round if you beat their perception with stealth or possibly deception, sleight of hand, or performance. Rolling initiative simulates someone's split second ability to react in combat. Even if I am a wizard and am the one being attacked while eating and I win the initiative roll, I am still surprised my first turn and cannot act. The enemy attacks at advantage, but because I won initiative and am no longer surprised, I can now take reactions at the last moment and maybe cast Shield. It's just an example, but that's why we roll initiative. It simulates your ability to spring into action. Maybe it was the sound of the enemy's blade ringing through the air towards my neck that tipped me off. Maybe I saw their reflection at the last second in a window coming up behind me. It's only when you are unconscious or paralyzed that it is physically impossible to use your fast twitch muscles to reactively dodge an attack. That's what makes the assassin unique. The ability to auto crit anyone surprised represents their skill and ability to take away any chance of seeing/hearing/sensing them coming so a surprised target won't do that split second reaction to dodge making it so they are standing still for the assassin as if they were unconcious.
@@ATinyWaffle The following is only food for thought and not meant to insult you or the way you DM games. This world needs more DMs and DnD players. Keep DM-ing. Much love, stay safe.
In my opinion, if you sneak up on an unsuspecting enemy, that doesn't notice you, there is no need for any initiative roll at this point in the game. After the attack has been dealt and if the target is still alive and/or other creatures are in the vicinity, yes. Because then the assassination has evolved into a combat scenario. You bring up the argument: "Rolling initiative simulates someone's split second ability to react in combat." Well, the assassination isn't combat, yet in my opinion. Combat is two parties battling each other, which isn't happening here. The unsuspecting enemy is not battling me. If the enemy notices the Rogue, because of how the stealth and perception rolls played out, then the assassination attempt will of course fail and combat will be started (with initiative rolls and no one being surprised). But if the Rogue successfully sneaks up on his opponent - decided by the dice - and is able to land that strike on him, there is no - to quote you - "the sound of the enemy's blade ringing through the air towards my neck that tipped me off". If there was any sound, that tipped you off, that would have been determined by the stealth rolls / perception rolls. Let's say the Rogue fails his stealth roll. You could then say, that "as your Rogue gets close to the target's back, drawing the dagger you make a slight noise, that tips off the enemy to your presence. The enemy is aware of you. Roll initiative." But if the stealth roll of the Rogue was successful, why would there be anything, that tips the target off to any presence? If I play this Rogue this just means to me, that my stealth rolls do not matter at all. Because even if I get a 30 with bonuses, there might always something at the last nanosecond "tipping my opponent off". So I don't even bother rolling for stealth in the first place and just walk in, daggers drawn.
Of course, if there was combat initiated by someone else and the Rogue of the party manages to sneak around the backside of the room on the first round (or starts doing so even before combat is initiated) into his targets back and attack him, then we'd also have the whole "Assassinate" feature of the Assassin Rogue playing out. But if the Rogue sneaks up on someone before any open combat has been initialized, I don't think there should be any initiative orders, that need to be rolled. Enemies noticing the Rogue, that's what the perception rolls of everyone in the room and the stealth roll of the Rogue are there for. Not initiative orders (again, in my opinion).
You get what I mean?
@@felixrivera895 I'm guessing HP are used here so that players don't get one-shot by enemies when in the same circumstances.
Esper: "If you do not have a goldfish, I will give you a goldfish, and then sneak-attack it."
Made my hecking day.
Damn it now i have to clean up this mess
You better hope Xanathar isn't watching this.
my next Rogue theme:
"if you receive a goldfish as a gift, the Goldfish Syndicate of assassins is coming after you."
Xanathar is always watching.
Locathah player: "Hey, wait a minute..."
I played a thief in a recent campaign. The fast hands feature allows you to "make a slight of hand check"*comma* which means you can do anything that requires a slight of hand check as a bonus action. So you can walk up to an enemy, disarm them as a special attack, then use your bonus action to steal their backup weapon. You can also multiclass into other classes that give extra attack so you can immediately stab them with their own weapon. (With adv. if you DM is cool, since you literally just took their weapons away.)
"My name is Shadow Blacksaber, my family was mutilated in front of me, and i was raised by the ones who mutilated them. I was trained, abused and tortured. Yet I survived, and unleashed my rage over them. Now, I roam the world, saving people from having the life I had."
"Ok...how about you Bob?"
"Im Jibb the bard, and I like collecting cactus so I can have the Ultimate Cactus Colection."
I like Jibb, they seem nice.
@@matteussilvestre8583 I like the cut of his jib.
"Shadow Blacksaber."
Hmm.
it would seem, just from the name, that the rogues who kidnapped you should have asked your name first. Would have saved a lot of bother later.
"Oh, the youngest of the Blacksaber's, well that's Shadow."
Next.
I'm Chuck from Cleveland.
I love the Arcane Trickster. We were fighting this Lich and we were heavily wounded but wining, when the Lich attempted to run away, so I tried block it's path. It then used Power Word Kill on me. We were around the corner and the Wizard couldn't use Counterspell. Without the Spell Thief feature I would have been dead.
but you couldn't spell thief power word kill .. you are limited to spells of 1st level or higher that are of a level you could cast, and there is no way you could cast a 9th level sell as a rogue with at least 17 levels
@@Tersidian It depends on when this happened. 5th Edition has recieved many updates (Called "Errata") throughout the years. It could be that part of the ability had yet to be added.
@@The_Crimson_Witch technically true, but checked in a first print (august 2014) and checked official errata documents for PHB before posting, so i'm about 99% sure that it has always been a part of the Spell Thief feature, of course it still could be a house ruling or a simple "Rule of Cool" application
@@Tersidian The way I read it, you can use Spell Thief to negate spells of any lvl, but you only get to actually steal spells that are of a low enough lvl.
you technically couldn't do that since you don't have that spell slot, but it's not cheating if the dm doesn't know it :)
I'm really loving this series on the classes, and I can't wait till you get to the Sorcerer (my favorite class).
The sorcerer is one of my favorite 5E classes.
Esper, hope you’re doing well man. Thanks for all this great content. As soon as I’m back in the saddle, I’ll show some proper appreciation. I think I’ve rewatched all your monster tier stuff just in the past few days. Cheers mate.
Thank you too Joseph!
"5e giving classes underpower capstone features" laughs in Paladin.
Laughs in moon druid
Well, we always have exceptions XD
moon druid, * laughing in Mammoth*
Also laughs in barbarian and cleric
@@jazoinklastname4289 Also laughs in figther, cus yall beter not sleep on the guy who can do 8 attacks in one round.
My first D&D character was a rogue. I've always had a fondness for rogues and spellcasters in various RPGs, so it was very fitting that my first and most beloved persona in the D&D world was an Arcane Trickster.
I was literally just thinking about this series when this loaded into my subscriptions.
I watched the Warlock episode earlier in the evening.
Feels weird that I see my favourite class after watching one of my favourite but I'll take it
Fast hands does stack with healers kits
even better, it stacks with oil and alchemist fire, or acid covered ground up glass. or stabbing someone with a hunting trap over there head
Magical Ambush, "Starting at 9th level, if you are hidden from a creature WHEN YOU CAST A SPELL on it, the creature has disadvantage on any saving throw it makes AGAINST THE SPELL THIS TURN."
I misread the arcane trickster's magical ambush. It only gives disadvantage on the enemy's saving throws this turn. I guess the wording confused me, because it says "any saving throws", but keep reading, dangling on a little line afterwards ... "this turn." Well, still a great feature.
About to watch the video, but just wanted to chip in: I think Arcane Trickster is the most powerful 3rd/4th level class in the game, you have Cunning Action, Sneak Attack, Cantrips, and 1st level spells at 3rd level?? Amazing at that level, though Arcane Trickster quickly levels off in power.
I mean they also have a Nice 7th level, evasion plus then you can combine shadow blade plus booming blade for better damage
They level off until they reach 17th level, at which point they can Steal Counterspell From a Counter Caster. Which is Rediculous.
Levels 6-12 are pretty good. They get expertise in two more skills, then they get Shadow Blade, Invisibility, and Evasion, then they get an ASI, then they get Magical Ambush, then they get an ASI, then they get reliable talent, then they get an ASI (and they still pick up 3 D6 of Sneak attack in this range). Level 7 is especially powerful.
All of those ASIs & Feats are great, especially for a Rogue that might want to grab war caster and resilient constitution to keep shadow blade up during combat, and might also be intrigued by Lucky (or Elven Accuracy), Mage Slayer, Sharpshooter, Defensive Duelist, Dual Wielder, Alert, or Ritual Caster. They'll for sure have 20 dexterity by this time, so the extra ASI/feat at level 10 gives them a lot of customization options.
Level 5 is disappointing though. Martial classes get extra attack, spell casters get 3rd level spells and a 2nd damage die for their cantrips. And Rogues get another D6 of Sneak Attack and Uncanny Dodge.
To be honest I find most of the 1/3rd level casters have alot of problems namely the fact they are limited to two spells schools and in an edition were the spell lists have been massivly cut back on.
I feel that cunning action is so overpowered, it makes sense for any other class to take two levels of rogue just for that.
i used my fast hands feature to click on this video without wasting a second, and the video was glorious.
instead of blindsense at 14th level, I allow players to take " crafty escape". when you disengage, you blind a single Target that you would have provoked an opportunity attack from till the end of your turn. this can be done by throwing a cloth in their face, or throwing powder in there eyes or something. the idea is to let a rogue disengage, and then hide without there attacker see where they're going. this let's them slip in and out of combat easily.
“Pocket sand!”
That's pretty good.
Now I just imagine waking up tomorrow to a small fishbowl with a dead goldfish in it and a note plastered to the side saying "YOU WERE WARNED!!!!"
bibbobella
Subscrib
Can’t wait for the Monk episode! Whenever that happens
I am eagerly wait for the second part, where you will cover the rest of rogue subclasses. Very entertaining and funny video with awesome collection of expressive pictures, well done!
When you were describing the similarities between bard and arcane trickster, it occurred to me that they are the two classes Sam Riegel has played in the critical role major campaigns.
5:45
since this feature assumes all thieves know thieves cant, i like to flavor it up and say other thieves also have a thieves emblem in my games. So you know who you can actually use thieves cant with. It helps give the skill much more use.
At around 5:40 you talk about how the DM's Guide doesn't have a section on utilizing more flavorful/situational/RP-focused class features, and I think it's true in general. In AD&D there were whole books devoted to each class, but included in there would be tips for running a game with the character class in it, and ideas for making them stand out and feel heroic. There are usually commentaries on managing the different types of players that might join your group, but most of us know our friends. Ideas and reminders to plan around cool minor features would definitely be an improvement to the DMG!
When I started playing 5e I realised that 'rogues' weren't the only ones that could find traps, open locks and pick pockets. The problem is everyone can do what Thieves could in earlier editions. In 1st and 2nd and 3.5 it was essential to have a Thief in a party, now not so much...
"Lots of other classes can high amounts of damage, and many of them also have great options for dealing damage to multiple targets at once"
When you say "Lots of other classes" you're talking about the casters aren't you? It's ok, the caster classes outdamage and out pace martial classes and if you're good (see war cleric 1/war magic wizard x) you basically a better eldritch knight. So it's ok, but at least they are on a resource while the rogues aren't I guess.
"see war cleric 1/wizard x" ?
A limited number of """extra attacks""" that also eat your bonus action? No flaming sphere, no bigby, no animate objects?
Sorry not seeing it.
But its true EKs are shafted, and its sad that straigh bladesinger is better eldritch knight than an eldritch knight in 5e.
Please explain why war cleric 1 is good with wizard x
Ok Texteel and Buck I'll explain it. In the cleric spell prepare it says
"You prepare the list of cleric spells that are available for you to cast, choosing from the cleric spell list. When you do so, choose a number of cleric spells equal to your Wisdom modifier + your cleric level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots."
It it says "of a level for which you have spell clots" it means level spells. Cleric and Wizards are full casters so let's say level 1 war cleric/ war magic (for example) wizard 2 you still have 4 1st level and 2 2nd level spells. This is or your cleric spells so if you go 19 levels of wizard and 1 level of war wizard it means you have the full spell slots with the cleric spell list with your wizard spell list.
The bonus action attack of war priest is icing on the top of what the base class is. It gives martial weapons, heavy armor, Shield, and 2 bonus spells which are both pretty good with shield of faith syncing well with war magic wizard 10 giving you +4 to your AC on a 1st level spell slot. On top of a shield which gives +2. This is also not taking account you just need just 15 str to put on heavy armor and even then the only penalty is 10 feet reduction to movement speed which is a pay off for 16-18 base AC without a shield in hand.
The drawback to Wizard is they are easy to hit, with war cleric you now have a bucky AC to any wizard you want. Combine that with basically 2 spell lists one being cleric and the other being wizard. Really you just need 14 Wis as you taking cleric spells to heal or to buff while using Int for your more offensive potiential. It's high flexibility with little to no cost if you got the stats for it.
@@texteel You still get flaming sphere, you still get Bigby, you still get animate objects. You just get healing magic as well along with posted AC. Hell you can now use your familiar to deliver healing spells. touch only cleric buffs.
@@WhyYouMadBoi 90% of the things of said work with multiple domains.
You specified War domain. To use war domain exclusive things, you give up flaming sphere, bigby, animate objects.
There goes half of your arguement.
You get cleric spells with whichever domain, but lets see them, shall we?
Now. Do you want heavy armor? How about forge? Make that heavy armor into a +1 heavy armor.
Or life domain, to patch up your healing spells and not great wisdom.
Tempest is also something that isnt the best for such a dip, with a reaction that only damages back.
Nature domain also gives you heavy armor for some reason, a bonus cantrip and a skill.
Order domain gives you armor, a skill, and constant utility.
Hell, if you need just martial weapons, death domain also exsist.
The only reason to go war over any of those, if you need armor AND martial weapon, for some reason.
My prediction: Swash is god tier. Because nobody out-buckles the Swash.
Really enjoy your videos, Esper! As a DM who ran a years-long campaign to level 20 with a rogue in the party, I found Reliable Talent to be an insanely good ability. S-tier for sure on my list, and verging on overpowered. Especially in the hands of a player who isn't afraid to think outside the box, reliable talent might mean the ability to basically never fail a check to grapple an opponent,, never fail a perception check or stealth check, even to never fail a persuasion, deception, or intimidation check. That's full of so much potential to control any situation! The rogue in my game was a strength-based goliath thief with expertise in athletics and the grappler feat, so for most of the upper tier play in my game there would always be at least one combatant who literally could not move for the entire battle. Yes, my player was very clever with that design, but there were so many times Reliable Talent came into play. It's like the halfing luck feature multiplied by 10.
I understand your gripe that a literal expert shouldn't miss a low DC skill check just because they rolled a natural "1," but to my mind as a DM if the character shouldn't be at risk of failing a skill check, then I shouldn't be asking them to roll. To use your example in the video: if the world-class expert dwarven blacksmith whose skills at the forge are legendary wants to craft a simple mundane weapon like they've been making since they were a child, that shouldn't require a roll.
My grandsons hid their goldfish... traumatizing. I told them that we have nothing to worry about because we have been subscribed for years but now they have PTSD.
Great content as usual, Thank You!
played a gnome arcane trickster who used booming blade, shadow blade, and the mobile feat in conjunction. It was amazing and the most damaging rogue i have ever made.
One great thing about Arcane Trickster is getting Shadow Blade at level 7 (as an Illusion spell, so you don't have to wait until level 8). Automatic advantage in dim light and darkness is huge for a Rogue looking for Sneak Attack.
I would point out about thieves' Cant that it is like skills and like languages, it depends on the campagin, the reason it only appears the once in the players handbook is because like languages it is a matter of how characters communicate, and thus its use is on the agency that the books do the least for Role Play but I mean the system of D&D is designed first about its combat system, other RPGs do the implementation of roll playing as a mechanic based thing better, always have. At the edge of the slums, playing a heroic rogue, ask the DM if your Thieves' cant lets you see anything that your would recognize would reference a specific shop as an easy target for thieves. Go in change the mark to make it one that makes the store appear based on it as a tough target, and help the poor shop keep out with some of your patronage, the thing is that Most D&D campaign especially the official ones are not campaigns about subtly or subterfuge, and that is why the dialect of code is over looked, Same goes for Druidic though, it is easy to get into your game player or DM, if you are a player ask your DM if you are seeing anything that you recognize as signs of information from it, giving your DM another way of giving you information, If you are a DM make hints to your Rogue or even flat out tell them this thing is something you understand from this conversation or enviornment because of your understanding of the underbelly of society
Yeah, evasion did save my rogues life, against Meteor Swarm no less. Dove behind the merlock I was fighting, it got roasted, as did everything else.
Downed the entire party, except me. Fortunately we had potions.
To keep things interesting, enemies in my game have some usable items that they will use in combat. This makes the thief really fun to pickpocket mid-combat.
20:49 yes, yes there are
My first d&d character was an elf rogue back at the beginning of 3.5. I was odd and focused on being a skill monkey and was only ok in a fight. We played that campaign for years even reached epic levels. Met my bestfriend in that group and took my first shot at running a sessions.
Rogue will always hold a special place in my heart and it's always the first class I try with every new edition.
I would give anything, to have this guy as my DM!
loved that gold fish joke
really apreceated that
I too love “Reliable Talent,” for much the same reasons as Esper. I’ve yet to DM a game, but if I ever do, I plant to house-rule so that characters just get a certain level of base knowledge based on the makeup (class, background, proficiencies, etc.), since there are some things I figure characters should just KNOW. I.e. a cleric should know the basic tenants and history of their religion-unless the player has a has a good role playing reason not to.
Everyone knows the greatest dwarven craftsmen are high-level Rogues with Expertise and Reliable Talent on their craft/tool proficiencies~
Expertise cannot be applied to a tool proficiency apart from thief's tools. A better point would have been that the best crafters are humans, half elves and half orcs who took the Prodigy feat from Xanathar's.
I dream with the day where you'll talk about Tortles, such an interesting race yet I find so little on CZcams
tell me about it. Just try finding sources for Warforged.
Mystara is packed with excellent races found in no other settings.
I almost always play Rogues. Skills and versatility are top tier. I also love the quiet, sneaky, self reliant theme they have. They also multiclass so efficiently.
I mean everyone makes mistakes. The way I see it, Rolling Low just means you made a simple mistake outside of your control. An example would be fumbling a stealth check by accidentally stepping on a loose stone that slips free and alerts a few people down below in the streets. believable in my book.
But a 1 in 20 choices of doing this isnt realistic. In reality, beating a veteran of the form is incredibly unlikely, in-game, its very possible.
If someone knoks over a vase 1 in 20 times, theyre gonna make an awful thief afterall. Someone who has a strength of 10 (completely average human), should never out wrestle a bodybuilder
@@avatarmufasa3628 without risk there is no game. Also rolling 2d10 instead of 1d20 leads to more consistent results with almost exactly the same range of outcomes. Simple fix.
Or a fly interrupts your concentration. A non-skilled person who rolls a 20 simply got lucky with what they tried to achieve. A skilled person that rolls low has a series of unfortunate events(various distractions or interruptions, usually out of their control) that might cause you to fail what you were doing.
@@avatarmufasa3628 there are no critical fails on skill checks
I've had some good luck, the occasional back to back 20, one time I got 7 20 in a row however....
I usally role like a professional golf player, trying to get the ball in a blackhole at the center of a crater.
As someone who roles terrible, absolutely atrocious most of the time, it matters. I play dnd because I want to succeed, to do well, not because I want to be a complete idiot who can't achieve the one thing I was built to do, the only thing my parties expects of me and yet it happens all to often.
In 4e I could stack a skill so high that even on a 1 I would still pass. Maybe if I stretched it I could get 3 skills I didn't have to worry about failing.
But in 5e you can be a God of music and still suck at a performance check to play THE most basic instrument. Nothing quite as sucky as the gm bending the rules giveing double advantage on a roll and you failing 3 times in a row, then doing it again 5min later and getting your party caught and thrown into the a hole.
If it were real life nobody would accept the character into their party (konasuba) and I would Mercy kill the character.
It sucks and it would be nice to be a master at at least one thing without haveing to worry about failing.
Love the videos can’t wait for monk
Calling it now, Mastermind is gonna be the best class. Perfect class for being the strategic mind behind your party's success.
It's definitely better than Investigator, mechanically.
It has some of the best rp potential and the help action when used with a flexible and creative gm allows for a lot of cool things.
So far my favorite archetype for the Rouge is Swashbuckler. I had a blast playing it in my friend's political intrigue and investigation urban themed game. Had the chance to get into a couple of one on one duels as well. I played a face duelist (using Expertise to pump up my social skills) I will admit, not sure how well the Swashbuckler would do in a dungeon crawl game though. Looking forward to your analyses.
Whenever someone who is supposed to be a pro at a particular skill rolls super low on it, I like to flavor it in a way that makes it less hurtful. Perhaps the Barbarian knew more about that magic item than the wizard because his tribe had a story about it, or the Ranger didn't have a shot go wide, but that ogre moved his club in the way of the arrow right at the last second, things like that.
The time has come, and so have I.
I dont care for any of the phb rogues. I love the inquisitive and enjoy the swashbuckler from Xanathars though
I do like to mix it with healers kits, ball bearings, caltrops, the previous two mixed together, bags of flour, tinderboxes, bags of flour and then tinderboxes, and miscellaneous
Having a lot of fun with an inquisitive rogue. It is much better in reality than it seems on the paper. Expertise in Insight and Perception, 20WIS at level 8 plus observant feat is damm cool.
I find arcane trickster and inquisitve the most fun rogue subclasses to play. Mastermind is special because of the help action, but after sometime becomes boring. Rogues are cool, but the combat is more or less always the same (hit and hide). Inquisitive rogues have some kind of unique freedom. You attack whichever target you like, you have free bonus actions for RP, search, disengage, and even sometimes to hide. It is more demanding strategically.
Swashbucklers have something similar, but I prefer Inquisitve's flavor and RP potential. Like Esper said, instead of playing an arcane trickster, I'd rather play a bard. Instead of Swashbluckler, a fighter, a bard or even a bladesinger. Unless I build a pirate...
For me, generally speaking I make all attacks against a creature that was caught entirely unaware a crit. Assassins get to deal the absolute max damage possible when they succeed an attack against a surprised opponent.
I do still use nat ones as some bizzare rare event happens even if you have an ability like a reliable talent. Like you're trying to sneak, but there happened to be a black cat in the shadows and it yowled when you got too close. That master smith, maybe there was a crack in the handle of their hammer and it just broke in the middle of the work. You can easily write it off as one of the assistants broke the hammer then put it back and its not actually the skilled character's fault, just events outside their control.
The thing about the Assassin is that Assassinate get's better naturally as Sneak Attack gets better. Therefore, not every other ability has to be so directly, proportionately useful as an ability at that level. Judging them as so ignores the context. This is true of a lot of leveled abilities: they're not balanced proportionally to each other, but overall.
Agreed. Also, some of these abilities does not require the same "checks" that a spell of similar use does. When you create a false identity or impersonate someone, everyone thinks you are said person and will only be suspicious if your behaviour is odd. It also bypasses anti-magic fields and the like. There is no time limit either. Combine it with feats like Actor, Keen Mind or Observant for even greater effect.
since use magic item removes racial restrictions, i recall a campaign in eberron where our insane rogue melded terrifying warforged enhancements into his changeling body, making one helluva spectacle.
Can't wait to hear your opinion over the swashbuckler
My homebrew game uses a feature called "Mastery," which operates identically to Reliable Talent but can be gotten by anyone and much, much sooner.
Then you should bump the reliable talent making it better
An error: The Arcane Trickster's feature Magical Ambush is described as imposing disadvantage against a spell cast from hiding, including ongoing damage. But the PHB says the creature has "disadvantage against any saving throw it makes against the spell THIS TURN." Unless the ongoing damage all occurs on the same turn as the spell is cast, the imposed disadvantage is more limited than as presented here.
I love the Thief thematically, all of it’s abilities are dripping with flavor but they just aren’t good until level 13. Second story work is super good for getting around but it won’t do you and good in the thick of a fight. Fast hands is just straight up bad, sure it’d be cute to pickpocket a guard while dueling him with your rapier but it’d be easier to take his stuff after killing him. *SUPREME SNEAK* is a joke. It’s thematic but it’s also total trash. If you got a second ability at 9th level I wouldn’t mind but that’s it. Use magic device is sooo good! Pro tip ask the party’s wizard to make you some low level scrolls to carry around, low level spells are pretty cheap to make and they’ll give you a lot of versatility. Thief’s reflexes is obviously the best ability you get as it should be. Getting a second turn on the first round of combat is wild, you can get 2 sneak attacks which can take out a big target and turn the tides of combat, alternatively if you aren’t interested in fighting you can run a total of 180 feet during the first round of combat and if that doesn’t get you to safety it should at least put a few of your friends between you and your enemy.
When coming up with a backup character for a mid level campaign, needed to plan to start several levels in. Was considering an Arcane Trickster, but decided on 1st level of rouge, then the rest in Bard. A lot easier to shore up shortcomings in the party, especially if my current character bites the dust.
20:49 PTSD intensifies
My dm didn't really give us magic items.
So now I am the DM most of the time.
Cool vid! Love your ideas and critics. I’m new to your channel. Do you live stream games?
Rogues have been my favorite class from the first time I played Baldur's Gate. My favorite archetype is the Thief. I believe you underestimate the value of supreme sneak and the synergy it provides. Having advantage on stealth rolls is very powerful for stealth for scouting missions and in combat areas with plenty of spots to hide in. The half movement speed is for each action. Cunning action can initiate the hide, and 30ft of moment could still happen. Combining this with the skulker feat makes it overpowered as the rouge can just hide in dim light, and actively hide from creatures with darkvision in darkness. This is before applying the penalty on the perception check for trying to see things in dim light.
A thief rogue 9th level and with 18dex will have +7 to stealth checks, and +10 if they took stealth as their expertise. Advantage puts a lot of favor on to that rogue as, at least in my games, once you are hidden you stay until revealed somehow; making the half movement speed a one round cost. Two levels later they get reliable talent and proficiency; putting them at +8 and +12 depending on expertise. This makes the minimum roll 18 or 22; now add advantage. It may get to be overkill at some point, but it gives the player a mindset they are a master of stealth especially as it only takes a bonus action to do.
I dm'd a homebrew where I allowed rogue/mage classes to do automatic criticals on spells at the cost of temporarily "burning" an intelligence point. For the cost of 2 intelligence points they could max out their damage. Lost intelligence points returned at the rate of 1 point a day. Overuse of this ability would trigger a dark powers check. This was a Ravenloft campaign (which they did not know about until it was too late) and all the PCs eventually went insane or turned into a gibbering horror Call of Cthulu style.
Fun note on evasion. Last night in our game, my monk and our rogue - level 7 - were the only two targets of a baddies Fireball. So satisfying when neither of us took any of that 30+ damage. Thought they were also trying to destroy a barricade we had made.
Thief is amazing for an urban campaign. I did a Shadow Sorcerer/Thief in a Ravnica campaign, casting darkness, climbing buildings, shooting someone, and then jumping down on someone the next turn. It was great.
Thiefs fast hands can be used to poison blades or up to 3 bolts/arrowheads (using normal poison)
And later can be used for more expensive poisons that hurt much more!
Also caltrops are amazing, a bear trap can just stop people, ball bearings are an amazing escape tool, also alchemist fire and oil are an early bonus action extra attack.
Thx again, Esper.
If you could include, at some point, which rogue subtype is your favorite for a 3-4 level dip. I think you'd have a really cool perspective on that. Thanks.
I use cunning action every turn in my theater of the mind game. So hard disagree there. Also Supreme Sneak is great outside of combat. Assassinate is super inconsistent, just watch Critical Role I think Vax gets it off 10 times in 115 sessions of play. Magic is easy to detect (1st level spell lol) and antimagic exists for a reason. Rogue abilities don't care about that giving them the edge over casters in many high-level situations. Reliable Talent is S tier in any campaign that isn't purely combat-focused. Period, end of story. Rolled a 1 cool that's 25 thanks to the expertise and reliable talent. Thinking it's something that should be baked into the rules (which is counter to bounded accuracy) is no reason to underrate it. The capstone isn't perfect but it also means that the rogue can just choose to do 20d6 to someone. That's fucking crazy. In short, I think you should spend more time actually experiencing the martial classes instead of just reading them. Sincerely, someone who owns with rogues.
I agree with and disagree with you.
I love the Rouge and there are a lot of things you can do with it, however the wizards ablitie to out shine most classes is ridiculous. While It dosent make me play wizard always it really sucks when the wizard steam rolled my Rouge.
A lot of this comes down to the gm putting in more work to balance the game. And with busy schedules and work this dosent happen enough. I usally find the gm swing to the extremes, either never putting in blocks to wizard makeing them out class everyone or always putting in the blocks makeing the person wonder why they even chose to play. I've had a lot of gms and a good gm will make a game one of the best ways to spend your life. But most gms have reality to condend with and usally go rules as written with a some prep advantage wizard.
9:41 Never forget the proverb, "to err is human." This is exactly how skills work in real life. Master artisans make mistakes all the time -- you just don't see the contents of masters' garbage bins on display. The same is true of machine and robot operated assembly lines. No amount of training, skill, or equipment eliminates the risk for error, and only hubris can remove all doubt in oneself.
Our DM ended up using Thieves' Cant as a way to mark thieves' hideouts. My character was a Level 4 Artificer/Level 1 Rogue so I was the only one who could navigate through the traps.
As a sidenote: Artificers have one of the best capstone features in the game, Soul of Artifice. Dear god, Soul of Artifice is SCARY. And they're the only half casting class that get cantrips. I tend to main Create Bonfire as my cantrip of choice as a method of blocking exits with fire.
Esper, how would you improve the bard's 20th level feature superior inspiration?
Daniel Lopes A super simple change would be to give uses of Bardic Inspiration when you roll initiative even when you have uses left.
I would give one die every turn that you don't have any of them
I'd say...
Whenever you use your Bardic Inspiration, you can target up to your Charisma Modifier of allies to bestow your inspiration.
And if you apparently want Esper the Bard levels of 20, inspiration grants advantage on your roll.
I like it when you compare Class Features to other classes Features
Well what would you recommend for possible variants for higher level martial features?
The only way to use supreme sneak and it is as a 9ft tall, 360 pound goliath in heavy armor
but in a large ,totally not suspicious barrel with a smiley face crudely painted on it
This must be some sort of older edition part of my brain talking but when you were describing tiers at the beginning I red F as baRd insead of BAD
Ótimo vídeo 😁
valeu cara!
The best kind of scoundrel is of course the scruffy nerfherder
Well, jokes on you!
I already snuck into your house and ate *YOUR* goldfish!!!
Amazing XD
Lol, Assassinate is so not S rank, its still very situational depending if you are alone or in a group...
Cant argue with the incredible damage though.
It's actually really good in more urban campaign settings or if you set up the situation itself. And Assassin Rogue is built around setting up perfect kills (though that package is questionable)
Can't wait for you to go through cleric domains
Was home over Christmas break once and hit up a local shop to play some adventures league games. Tried playing a kobold thief rogue named Sticks. I think it was the beginning of Dungeon of the Mad Mage but all I remember is an underground dungeon with 10 ft wide halls, low ceilings, hardly any traps or locks, and nothing that needed investigating as all treasure was simply in plain sight. I couldn't use any of my special movement features to climb, I relied on pack tactics for sneak attack because there was nothing to hide behind, and over all felt useless and was horribly bored. Dropped the character entirely and came back next week with a different one. If you get to do espionage or are in places like cities where you can make ample use of the thief's abilities and buy items to use like caltrops, acid, and alchemist fire you'll probably have a good time, but dungeon crawling with one was awful.
Just a tip for people who want to play Assassins. The Flying Snake is a harmless CR 1/8 Tiny Beast with a unique element to it. It's poison does 3d4 damage, which, ok, that's pretty mediocre most of the time, except, oh look, there's no Saving Throw on a Flying Snake's poison. meaning it's a guaranteed damage to your opponent. Now there's no lingering side-effects like paralysis or neurological damage or anything like that. It's just damage. But let me explain another detail.
When you successfully hit a Critical Hit, you don't just roll the weapon's damage die again. You roll ALL damage die again. This includes Sneak Attack Damage. This includes Poison Damage. So if you for instance, coat your rapier, which is 1d8 damage, and have 2d6 Sneak Attack, that's 2d8+6d4+4d6. This is something you can pull off at Level 3 very easily
Can't wait for the fighter videos
I made a medic rogue theif with the healer feat... makes for a very good back alley doctor type... super cool
Esper, question for you sir. I have a player in my group that took the Bloodhunter class and at lvl 7 he's multiclassed with Rogue. He is the perfect example of the minmaxer. Every time he takes a turn it gives me a headache. His explanations for all the things he dose just make me give up. How can I reel him in without being obvious?
Arcane tricksters can pair well with Eldritch Knights and Gloomstalker Rangers. Also, that mage hand for advantage can be helpful if you are a creature of the dark like a drow or kobold caught in the daylight. A straight role is always better than disadvantage in those cases.
First! Also, love the vid, I'm playing a rouge ATM, it's super fun, though I need to add some flavour, simply a thieving bastard isn't fun, so right now I'm doing an inventor rouge who can't afford materials, and so steals them. It's really fun!
I'm trying to make a rouge character that's a changeling hitman good at killing without anyone knowing and pinning the blame on others by planting evidence. At lower level assassin should work, but it'll be terrible at higher level. Is there a better subclass for this? Or should I think about multiclassing into whisper bard?
All rogues do alot of damage due to sneak attack being a main class feature. But for damage, it's between assassin and arcane trickster.
Assassin's call to fame regarding damage obviously comes from assassinate. However, arcane tricksters deals additional damage due to ramping damage of SCAG cantrips alongside spells like shadowblade. It's east for an arcane trickster to deal an average of 32 damage consistently at level 5.
I WANT MOAR
In my world rogues have (like everyone else) a guild tattoo. A rampant unicorn. Though few people know what it means and rougues have professional lingo just as everyone else in the word. Rouges don't share this lingo with anyone else. My personal rogue was an assassin. And a government contractor killing those deemed enemies of the nation.
Esper: "What Bards don't have is at will sneak attack damage"
Whisper Bard: Am I a joke to you?
Hehe
My suggestion for the assassins ninth level ability, hair thief, if the assassin gets their hands on a hair of a particular person when they encounter this person again burn the hair, it just burns up in their hands, and give the target disadvantage on all mental savings throws.
Do you think this is balanced or do you think it’s over powered. Or under powered.
"Have you read A Critique of Pure Reason?"
Narrator might be a Kobold, just saying....
I remember being disappointed when I first read the assassin's abilities. Now I remember why
I think people underestimate the power of being able to set up your party for even bigger hits like a thief first round sneak atk first action help second action to set up advantage for say a paladin to GWM and increase the chance for a crit plus smite.
Only issue I have is that in campaigns I've played in the Assassinate feature almost never comes up (at least the part about critical hits). As the party tends to be the ones that are ambushed/walks into a room with monsters to which we both notice each other at the same time. The only time in which a surprised condition ever occurs is when the Rouge goes in to stealthy initiate the fight, to which almost never happens as we never know of the situation beforehand and are able to make a plan. Now the feature isn't bad as the Advantage against creatures who haven't had their turn is pretty nice and guarantees a turn 1 sneak attack, but I don't think that even makes up for the rest of the 3rd level ability as some other classes get better and more useful abilities such as the divination wizards portent dies, or the bear totem barb resistance to ALL dmg (except psychic).
But that is entirely your party's fault. There are several ways for the party to scout ahead unnoticed(many spells) so that you can formulate a plan. Even the Assassin itself could be sent to scout ahead, then report back with what they have learned.
Obviously, it wont be possible for every encounter(when you are actively being chased or chasing something), but for the typical "let us explore this area" situation, you should have the means to learn about your surroundings without being detected.
I would be more inclined to agree with you on the Level 20 ability issue, if you would provide a suggestion of what you would craft for the class instead? I think it's a pretty neat ability, but I can see where it is lack luster. So what would be the ultimate ability to embody the Rogue?