Thanks for posting your videos! Epoxying in screws could well mean a challenge later if you ever needed to remove them. Philips recess would likely tear out or even the shank of the screw snap. Little known way of sealing is to thin single pack silicon with mineral turpentine. Works with both acetic acid cure and neutral cure types. Squeeze a little into a tin or solvent proof discardable container and start stirring. Takes a while to dissolve (you'll think i'm nuts) but dissolve it will. Then with syringe drop the thinned silicon down the screw hole. The turps dries out leaving a beautiful neat thin skin of very flexible silicon which cures with water vapour in the atmosphere as per normal. It will never crack as epoxies often do as they age, especially if the substrate is flexible. Screw should be easy or easier to remove years down the track.
aeroearth I agree, I removed a deck from a 1979 Mason 43 which the previous owner had epoxied most of the thousands of screws holding down the deck. Made a real pain to remove as most if not all screw heads broke off. The epoxy overtime cracked away from the wood as wood likes to contract and expand and epoxy does not. Your way sounds like quite the method, I would be interested to try myself. However a dab of wood glue is also a good substitute for epoxy. Bonds better with wood and isn’t impossible to remove.
@@ctnvisual5281 That's true, but what I want to do is have the very thin epoxy soak into any possible wet core that might be under the compromised plug, penetrating epoxy is the best for that. To remove decks I think by far the quickest method is to use the fein cutter not trying to dig out the plugs and unscrew everything.
Have same problem with my decks and screw caps. What I do is remove the screw, drill right down (10mm) to fibreglass then thourughly clean out using acetone. When ready I mix up a epoxy resin spread it in the hole and on a teak dowl which is then inserted and worried fully into the hole. The dowl by being epoxied to the fibreglass deck plus teak planking replaces the screw and you then never have the problem of replacing a screw cap again. This really helps on decks that have worn thin or are around 10mm thickness
That might be ok for the occasional hole but only really if the plug had the grain going vertically. A normal plug with the grain horizontally will offer very little strength, either laterally or up and down, even if it is partially soaked in epoxy. Either way the contact area between the bottom of the plug and the fibreglass is rather small, assuming it goes down all the way and touches the bottom that is. A tapered plug would be no good.
We are searching for a boat now. We dont even look or consider yachts with a teak deck. Great for marketing when the boat is new as it looks lovely. 10 years down the track the beginning of a maintenance nightmare. My brother is a boat builder in Lymington and says dont go near the teak deck boats . If you have the patience for maintaining a boat then no problem. You do some of the best yacht vids on the net.
I did a lot of research on teak deck at the time we were looking for Fair Isle. I came to the conclusion that it would be better not to have teak decks, at least not so much! But it does depend on how they are fitted and how thick they are. You'll hear people say teak decks will only last 15 years. Well some modern boats have very thin or even laminated teak teaks so thats probably right for them. Ours was 22mm thick when new, after 22 years is roughly 20mm now so there's plenty of life left. If your deck is cored with balsa then screwed in decks can be a problem also . If you take care of teak it's a great thing to have and for me it's a days work every year which is well worth it. If I had a boat for weekend sailing I would not have this boat because I would end up working on my boat at weekends not sailing, but for a cruising boat having these little jobs is actually fine, I find I need things to do! Maybe it's a lifetime of having grass to cut and hedges to trim, mindless menial jobs is my relaxation!!
@@svfairisle Great reply. You raise some great points and i agree i was sort of generalising about teak. It does depend on the build quality. I do know this, a teak deck is beautiful to look at and very safe to walk on. I would say it offers the best grip to walk on. My Brother who is more of the expert said another interesting thing. Dont buy a boat made from 2 materials. Go all glass or all steel or all wooden but dont mix the two. Most major issues occur where the the two materials meet. I have owned a grp double ender (vagabond 31 Sweden) and then a steel Halvosen Freya) The Vagabond had a moulded grip deck and the Freya had a painted grip deck. There were some wood fittings on the Freya including the toe rail, All my rust problems were at the contact points. Both boats were long keels and that is why i find myself watching your videos with glee. Especially the manoeuvring vid. Greatest advice i ever got for manoeuvring a long keel boat was "Whatever way she goes, look as though you meant it!"
dulls ha! Love that quote, will have to steel that! You’re right about the wood on steel thing. My father had a steel ketch, sister ship to Joshua, Bernard Moitessiers boat. Properly built with all the grab rails etc welded on steel. There was one bit of teak combing that he replaced about three times. I think the expansion rates are too different and to condensation you get on he steel means you get water in the gap between the two.
dulls I’ve just finished editing a video on choosing a cruising boat you might be interested in. I put the a page on the website up yesterday about it, video coming soon.
@@svfairisle Another one i picked up regarding funny but wise advice was. "There are 2 types of sailor. Those who have been aground and those who are about to". I will watch your cruise boat advice and then opt for a long keeler like yours!
Excellent tips Steve :-) Always enjoy your technical youtube as well as the normal content. Have been continuing to look over potential liveaboard sailing vessels. The budget has increased 4-5 times the initial amount. The calibre of the boats I am considering has increased exponentially. Maybe I will meet up one day if you ever do the long sail out through the South Pacific and down to Australian waters. I plan to sail all along the Eastern Coastline of Australia then take some extended trips over to the South Pacific.
Oh yes, very much looking forward to getting out to the South Pacific and Aus & NZ. I'm always amazed we see any Aussies over here sailing, must be hard to sail AWAY from the South Pacific!
Thanks for a good video, much appreciated. Which penetrating epoxy do you use? Do you still use the same method for the cored parts of your boat, not replacing the screws that is?
I’ll have to check on the make of the penetrating epoxy & yes still leave out the screws if I know it’s a cored part of the deck, but not much of my deck is cored. I wouldn’t be leaving out screws over a large area.
It was not customary to apply glue or resin to plugs before, but maybe they started with this in recent years. The old ones you could always take out with a small flat screwdriver of lesser dimention than the plug. Take care not to damage the rim of the hole, and don't just cut the plug in one go. Test first to see the direction of the fibers. If direction of fibers carry down, you cut from the down end.
That's a nice looking bit you are using - you are getting a nice clean cut. Couldn't quite see but does the centre point somehow retract so that you can achieve a cut above that shallow screw head. Would you mind telling us what it is?
Thanks for posting the video! But epoxying screws into the deck will become a night mare when trying to remove them. They will break off or the heads will strip off! Let’s try a different sealer.
I see what you're saying, but my thinking is that if & when I come to strip the teak off the deck I wont be trying to dig out all the bungs and extract the screws as that would take forever. I would probably use a Fein to slot a blade underneath and just cut them off. The real use of the epoxy though is as a replacement for the screws as in the second one I did. If the screws are going into a cored deck then the thin epoxy is the only thing that will get in there and penetrate and stabalise any core material that may have suffered some water ingress through the compromised plug. If you keep putting it in until its soaked through up to the level of the bottom of the bung it should set and form a lasting seal as a sort of epoxy screw. So yes maybe if you have a completely solid glass deck, (very few are) a different sealer may be better, but a cored deck I think the thin epoxy is still the best way to go. Thanks for all your comments, useful to debate these things, Steve.
Sailing Fair Isle :) there are more ways than one to skin a cat. Mate! I have seen people put a tooth pick in the hole and then screw it back together! He was happy! I like 5200 but sometimes the screws break with 5200. Oh well them the breaks! Pun intended. Be safe! God Bless and hold you in his hand
Sailing Fair Isle Only thing about leaving the metal is they can become rust spots if they have corrosion on them. I understand why you say about leaving them, it is a lot of work to get them all out. Most of the jobs I have seen they are removed. Only reason for total removal is to prevent a rust spot on the top and a leak on the bottom. Oh well the joys of hind sight and arm chair quarterbacking
Paul Harrison I use 5200 for everything. I love the the stuff. It lasts for ever! It has a small bit of structural strength. I put the cap on my ski boat on with it 20 years ago and it’s still good
I can understand why you allowed the glue to penetrat, but not why you did not replace that last screw. It would have been simple to re-drill and set the screw, or set it in wet epoxy.
I do with some of them, certainly the ones on the edge. But my deck is stuck down hard, the screws are really only there to hold the deck down hard while the mastic sets, you would need a chisel to get it off. This might not be the same on all decks. So with the screws that I know are going into a cored section the screw just may be a way of water getting in whereas the epoxy filling the gap isn’t. But you’re right, if in any doubt, put the screw back!
It's really thin, like milk not cream. I want it to soak into the core a bit and if the compromised plug had let any water in I want the epoxy to stabalise that and prevent any further ingress.
Paul Harrison it’s not thinned, you can buy penetrating epoxy that’s really thin, that’s what this is. It’s meant for use on wood that may have lost some strength for whatever reason and many people use is as a base coat before varnishing oily woods like teak, it gives a good base, better than thinned varnish. Steve
No your right Brian, sorry we didn't have enough use of the alternator by that point to really work out how it was doing. I will film something for a later episode, but in the meantime there's a write up in the description of Ep.4 that gives the updated info. Steve
Nice instruction!
Thanks for posting your videos! Epoxying in screws could well mean a challenge later if you ever needed to remove them. Philips recess would likely tear out or even the shank of the screw snap. Little known way of sealing is to thin single pack silicon with mineral turpentine. Works with both acetic acid cure and neutral cure types. Squeeze a little into a tin or solvent proof discardable container and start stirring. Takes a while to dissolve (you'll think i'm nuts) but dissolve it will. Then with syringe drop the thinned silicon down the screw hole. The turps dries out leaving a beautiful neat thin skin of very flexible silicon which cures with water vapour in the atmosphere as per normal. It will never crack as epoxies often do as they age, especially if the substrate is flexible. Screw should be easy or easier to remove years down the track.
Sounds interesting, will give that a go, thanks. Steve
aeroearth I agree, I removed a deck from a 1979 Mason 43 which the previous owner had epoxied most of the thousands of screws holding down the deck. Made a real pain to remove as most if not all screw heads broke off. The epoxy overtime cracked away from the wood as wood likes to contract and expand and epoxy does not.
Your way sounds like quite the method, I would be interested to try myself. However a dab of wood glue is also a good substitute for epoxy. Bonds better with wood and isn’t impossible to remove.
@@ctnvisual5281 That's true, but what I want to do is have the very thin epoxy soak into any possible wet core that might be under the compromised plug, penetrating epoxy is the best for that. To remove decks I think by far the quickest method is to use the fein cutter not trying to dig out the plugs and unscrew everything.
Have same problem with my decks and screw caps. What I do is remove the screw, drill right down (10mm) to fibreglass then thourughly clean out using acetone. When ready I mix up a epoxy resin spread it in the hole and on a teak dowl which is then inserted and worried fully into the hole. The dowl by being epoxied to the fibreglass deck plus teak planking replaces the screw and you then never have the problem of replacing a screw cap again. This really helps on decks that have worn thin or are around 10mm thickness
That sounds like a very good idea when the decks get thin, I may steal that!
That might be ok for the occasional hole but only really if the plug had the grain going vertically. A normal plug with the grain horizontally will offer very little strength, either laterally or up and down, even if it is partially soaked in epoxy. Either way the contact area between the bottom of the plug and the fibreglass is rather small, assuming it goes down all the way and touches the bottom that is. A tapered plug would be no good.
We are searching for a boat now. We dont even look or consider yachts with a teak deck. Great for marketing when the boat is new as it looks lovely. 10 years down the track the beginning of a maintenance nightmare. My brother is a boat builder in Lymington and says dont go near the teak deck boats . If you have the patience for maintaining a boat then no problem. You do some of the best yacht vids on the net.
I did a lot of research on teak deck at the time we were looking for Fair Isle. I came to the conclusion that it would be better not to have teak decks, at least not so much! But it does depend on how they are fitted and how thick they are. You'll hear people say teak decks will only last 15 years. Well some modern boats have very thin or even laminated teak teaks so thats probably right for them. Ours was 22mm thick when new, after 22 years is roughly 20mm now so there's plenty of life left. If your deck is cored with balsa then screwed in decks can be a problem also . If you take care of teak it's a great thing to have and for me it's a days work every year which is well worth it. If I had a boat for weekend sailing I would not have this boat because I would end up working on my boat at weekends not sailing, but for a cruising boat having these little jobs is actually fine, I find I need things to do! Maybe it's a lifetime of having grass to cut and hedges to trim, mindless menial jobs is my relaxation!!
@@svfairisle Great reply. You raise some great points and i agree i was sort of generalising about teak. It does depend on the build quality. I do know this, a teak deck is beautiful to look at and very safe to walk on. I would say it offers the best grip to walk on.
My Brother who is more of the expert said another interesting thing. Dont buy a boat made from 2 materials. Go all glass or all steel or all wooden but dont mix the two. Most major issues occur where the the two materials meet. I have owned a grp double ender (vagabond 31 Sweden) and then a steel Halvosen Freya) The Vagabond had a moulded grip deck and the Freya had a painted grip deck. There were some wood fittings on the Freya including the toe rail, All my rust problems were at the contact points. Both boats were long keels and that is why i find myself watching your videos with glee. Especially the manoeuvring vid.
Greatest advice i ever got for manoeuvring a long keel boat was "Whatever way she goes, look as though you meant it!"
dulls ha! Love that quote, will have to steel that! You’re right about the wood on steel thing. My father had a steel ketch, sister ship to Joshua, Bernard Moitessiers boat. Properly built with all the grab rails etc welded on steel. There was one bit of teak combing that he replaced about three times. I think the expansion rates are too different and to condensation you get on he steel means you get water in the gap between the two.
dulls I’ve just finished editing a video on choosing a cruising boat you might be interested in. I put the a page on the website up yesterday about it, video coming soon.
@@svfairisle Another one i picked up regarding funny but wise advice was. "There are 2 types of sailor. Those who have been aground and those who are about to".
I will watch your cruise boat advice and then opt for a long keeler like yours!
Excellent tips Steve :-) Always enjoy your technical youtube as well as the normal content. Have been continuing to look over potential liveaboard sailing vessels. The budget has increased 4-5 times the initial amount. The calibre of the boats I am considering has increased exponentially. Maybe I will meet up one day if you ever do the long sail out through the South Pacific and down to Australian waters. I plan to sail all along the Eastern Coastline of Australia then take some extended trips over to the South Pacific.
Oh yes, very much looking forward to getting out to the South Pacific and Aus & NZ. I'm always amazed we see any Aussies over here sailing, must be hard to sail AWAY from the South Pacific!
@@svfairisle they are always looking for new locations to sail I guess.
Thanks for a good video, much appreciated. Which penetrating epoxy do you use? Do you still use the same method for the cored parts of your boat, not replacing the screws that is?
I’ll have to check on the make of the penetrating epoxy & yes still leave out the screws if I know it’s a cored part of the deck, but not much of my deck is cored. I wouldn’t be leaving out screws over a large area.
It was not customary to apply glue or resin to plugs before, but maybe they started with this in recent years.
The old ones you could always take out with a small flat screwdriver of lesser dimention than the plug.
Take care not to damage the rim of the hole, and don't just cut the plug in one go. Test first to see the direction of the fibers.
If direction of fibers carry down, you cut from the down end.
That's a nice looking bit you are using - you are getting a nice clean cut. Couldn't quite see but does the centre point somehow retract so that you can achieve a cut above that shallow screw head. Would you mind telling us what it is?
its called a Forstner bit .... www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000NDB5G2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Thanks for posting the video! But epoxying screws into the deck will become a night mare when trying to remove them. They will break off or the heads will strip off! Let’s try a different sealer.
I see what you're saying, but my thinking is that if & when I come to strip the teak off the deck I wont be trying to dig out all the bungs and extract the screws as that would take forever. I would probably use a Fein to slot a blade underneath and just cut them off. The real use of the epoxy though is as a replacement for the screws as in the second one I did. If the screws are going into a cored deck then the thin epoxy is the only thing that will get in there and penetrate and stabalise any core material that may have suffered some water ingress through the compromised plug. If you keep putting it in until its soaked through up to the level of the bottom of the bung it should set and form a lasting seal as a sort of epoxy screw.
So yes maybe if you have a completely solid glass deck, (very few are) a different sealer may be better, but a cored deck I think the thin epoxy is still the best way to go. Thanks for all your comments, useful to debate these things, Steve.
Sailing Fair Isle :) there are more ways than one to skin a cat. Mate! I have seen people put a tooth pick in the hole and then screw it back together! He was happy! I like 5200 but sometimes the screws break with 5200. Oh well them the breaks! Pun intended. Be safe! God Bless and hold you in his hand
@@svzigzag5898 3M's 5200 is a structural adhesive and shouldn't be used as a sealant (as it will never come un-sealed).
Sailing Fair Isle Only thing about leaving the metal is they can become rust spots if they have corrosion on them. I understand why you say about leaving them, it is a lot of work to get them all out. Most of the jobs I have seen they are removed. Only reason for total removal is to prevent a rust spot on the top and a leak on the bottom. Oh well the joys of hind sight and arm chair quarterbacking
Paul Harrison I use 5200 for everything. I love the the stuff. It lasts for ever! It has a small bit of structural strength. I put the cap on my ski boat on with it 20 years ago and it’s still good
I can understand why you allowed the glue to penetrat, but not why you did not replace that last screw. It would have been simple to re-drill and set the screw, or set it in wet epoxy.
I do with some of them, certainly the ones on the edge. But my deck is stuck down hard, the screws are really only there to hold the deck down hard while the mastic sets, you would need a chisel to get it off. This might not be the same on all decks. So with the screws that I know are going into a cored section the screw just may be a way of water getting in whereas the epoxy filling the gap isn’t. But you’re right, if in any doubt, put the screw back!
What is the drill bit called?
Forster bit
SFI Could you outline how you thin your epoxy. The term I use is 'penetrating epoxy'.
It's really thin, like milk not cream. I want it to soak into the core a bit and if the compromised plug had let any water in I want the epoxy to stabalise that and prevent any further ingress.
@@svfairisle What do you use to thin it?
Paul Harrison it’s not thinned, you can buy penetrating epoxy that’s really thin, that’s what this is. It’s meant for use on wood that may have lost some strength for whatever reason and many people use is as a base coat before varnishing oily woods like teak, it gives a good base, better than thinned varnish. Steve
@@svfairisle Like wood hardener!
might be me but cant find alternator update on ep.4
No your right Brian, sorry we didn't have enough use of the alternator by that point to really work out how it was doing. I will film something for a later episode, but in the meantime there's a write up in the description of Ep.4 that gives the updated info. Steve
@@svfairislethanks.
What kind of boat you have?
There's a boat tour video with lots of information if you're interested... czcams.com/video/x8SDb0syCWU/video.html
Steve