Accident Case Study: Just a Short Flight
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- čas přidán 27. 02. 2020
- Link to certificate of completion and ASI transcript: bit.ly/ACSShortFlightCert
On the afternoon of May 15, 2017, a Learjet 35A on a positioning flight from Philadelphia to Teterboro, NJ, crashed while circling to land at Teterboro in visual conditions.
The NTSB released disturbing audio transcripts from the cockpit voice recorder in the Learjet. The transcripts reveal dysfunctional cockpit operations between a task-saturated captain and an inexperienced first officer, flying a demanding airplane in one of the most intense airspace regions in the world.
The AOPA Air Safety Institute examines the links in the accident chain, and discusses how to apply the lessons learned from a commercial flight gone wrong.
To help make videos like these possible consider donating to the AOPA Foundation: aopa.org/donation/oneclickdon...
Watch more videos by the AOPA Air Safety Institute on our channel: / airsafetyinstitute
Normally you wonder "what did they do wrong?"
On this flight "What did they do right?" would be a shorter list.
Well... what *did* they do right?
@@RacinZilla003 They flew all the way to the scene of the crash.
They were honest about going 260 kt in a 250 kt restricted area. They did that right.
Lol
supervisory pilot duty only....🤔 never heard that before, does the FAA even allows that? you either a full operating officer or you not, the company should be heavily fined and investigated.
“Not prone to using checklists”. No more needs to be said. Instant red flag
The co pilots take off AND landing crash on a recent simlator eval was another very red flag
He said "proactive." Meaning, he had to prompt them, not that the PIC ignored them.
Remembering your cues is something, I imagine, comes with time; What you're painting, is a much darker picture...
Complacent captain, with incompetent first officer flying, What could possibly go wrong.
With his history, the first officer should have either have been serving the coffee, or cleaning the planes in the hanger.
Preferably the latter, to save passengers from having the coffee spilled all over them.
No. Just didn't know their threes times tables.
@@Dance_of_a_tree_called_life Not to mention getting inverted on the unusual attitude module. Yikes!
Someone should have shared this little quote with those two in flight school:
"If it's not right... Go around. It's better to explain why you did it... than for others to find out why you didn't."
someone should have told them to go find a new career at flight school
Unfortunately, someone probably did at some point, especially with behaviors and tendencies like they were described to have. They just ignored it.
Yea, no, those guys were going to lose their jobs if they landed that plane in one piece.
I'm no pilot but, couldn't they have gone further away from the airport to get a smoother circling approach? I understand that's extra fuel but still.
Milton Waddams what's a "smoother circling approach"? There was absolutely nothing wrong with the one they had. Slow to the proper approach speed, track the localizer, descend to the correct altitude and turn at the FAF Torby. If it isn't working out, go missed. No need for fighter jet maneuvers, especially that low to the ground!
I want to share something with you guys. I read the whole NTSB report, including every interview they did. The Van der Veld party who chartered the plane, was actually supposed to fly this final route. However, the flying and previous last landing with this group on board was so bad that the one brother refused to get back on that plane for the return flight north, and they told the pilots to go ahead without them, and the party rented a vehicle and drove themselves back. So this only turned into a positioning flight at the last minute. The PM even forgot this when he tried to file a flight plan to Teterboro that had them climbing to 27k feet. What’s even more of a travesty, is also in reading the interviews, you get to read how these two guys fell thru the cracks of the system, especially the younger pilot. This is essentially the same issue that just happened with the Atlas Air/Amazon cargo plane crash. The Jr pilot there shouldn’t of been anywhere near a cockpit either and slipped thru the regulatory cracks.
Godzilla Hårddisksson Not joking. If you get the NTSB report and read the transcript of the interviews, it’s in there. NTSB spoke with many ppl, but this was one of the ppl in the party who chartered the jet. They were going to some sort of golf outing or fundraiser.
Unfortunately I fear the issue of "slipping thru the cracks" could get worse in the coming years with Pilot Supply not meeting Pilot Demand.
Ted Saylor , in reading the Atlas Air case so far, it seems the NTSB feels the same way, based on the questions they are asking in every interview with people involved.
This is NTSB interview summary for Murphy. God it’s so eerie. “He said the landing was one of the scariest he had ever experienced. As the front came through PHL, there was pretty strong winds behind it and the weather was moving through pretty fast. He had flown into PHL before and they always landed on a different runway than the big jets used. This runway was shorter. The wind was from west and they were landing more to the northwest. When they were about 5 or 6 feet off the ground, the plane felt like it fishtailed as if it was a car on ice. The tail fishtailed so much he thought at one point they were going to land at 90 degrees to the runway. His brother sitting next to him grabbed his hand on the armrest and was like “holy cow, what the hell was that.” They landed and then got off the plane. They went into the bathroom, getting ready to get in the car, and his brother looked at him and said, “I don’t want to fly on that plane anymore.” They both looked at each other and said “let’s drive up to TEB.” They did not want to have to go through that again since it was unnerving. They told the pilots they were just going to get in the car, go play in this golf tournament and then drive up to NJ and “you guys do what you gotta do.” An hour or two later he saw on one of the news apps that said a small plane crashed in northern New Jersey. That night his brother said to turn the news in New York and they saw the red tail of a plane embedded in a hangar or warehouse outside a runway and they knew the tail number and learned that it was the airplane they had been on.
Appreciate the additional context. Holy smokes they dodged a bullet
Kinda terrifying that guys like this are permitted to fly.
Yes sir, it truly is!! My biggest fear would be flying with a Captain like that! Sheeez! Such disregard for proper procedure and operating protocols! And some of these errors are shockingly basic in nature. For example, if I had made some of those errors on my instrument rating checkride (flight test to obtain the instrument rating), it would be an IMMEDIATE FAIL!! I can't fathom for the life of me how these guys, especially that "second in command" passed his instrument and commercial checkrides! SMH!
That company is probably regretting the shit out of letting that guy fly....
His constant aggravated swearing over nothing felt 5o me like a serious issue with his baseline stress level...
@@747-pilot You gotta wonder how many awful pilot's just get passed around between employers like that..
Its like if a pilot is bad enough that no company will keep him around very long, then noone may ever get to know the _full extent_ of his ineptitude during his short employment stints.
You know there are firm legal restrictions on what you can say about a former employee when he uses you as a reference....You basically can't say anything except "he did his job". Like if I said " I didnt renew Fred's contract because he did X & Y, and it concerned me because of Z", then I'd almost guarantee a crushing lawsuit. ....Maybe it's time for some tort reform in that area.
@@SuperPhunThyme9 I think the bigger problem that exists, is the hiring process itself, and it is mostly prevalent in the corporate flying world, compared to the airlines, because at the airlines, the hiring process tends to be very FORMAL and (for the most part) you are hired strictly based on "merit". That is your qualifications, experience, your customer service and other "people" skills (teamwork etc.) and how you perform in your simulator evaluations.
A lot of pilots in the corporate world, are hired through "connections". It is more about WHO you know, than WHAT you know. This, obviously, is extremely problematic, because the job goes to the person, the boss/manager etc. wants to hob-knob with, rather than the MOST QUALIFIED candidate! I'm not saying that this is what happens in every single instance, but it is very prevalent!
In fact, I was told, that regardless of how experienced or good you are, it is very difficult to get hired at these places, unless you have "connections" and "know someone"! Although, personally, I had ZERO interest in working in a corporate flying type of gig. I'm pretty bad at schmoozing and sucking up to people, and playing those sorts of games, anyways!
The fact that this "second in command" was hired (or still kept employed), after failing so many of the company's own evaluations, that he was essentially not allowed to fly the plane, and was only allowed to be "pilot monitoring" SHOCKS me beyond belief!! Did they not find anyone else, who was better than that?? Really??
Yes, I'm aware that there is a pilot shortage, of sorts (and even this is not entirely accurate, but that's a discussion for another day). But even taking that into account, I'll bet my left arm, they could have easily found pilots who were more competent than both of these guys!!
bradwhiteuk I can’t imagine flying for an operation that even allowed pilots in a seat that weren’t even allowed to touch the flight controls under any circumstances. If they are that bad, I’m sure there is a fuel truck or a tug they could operate instead.
I didn’t think that it was possible to cram so many mistakes into so little time. Good grief.
I don't think _I_ could make these many mistakes...
...and I don't even know how to fly!
@@dsandoval9396 Yes, I agree! 😂 Watching this unfold was beyond belief!! As the mistakes kept coming on and on, I was stunned in disbelief, that a crew could be _THIS_ unprofessional and clueless!
@@dsandoval9396
All of the "mistakes" were NOT ACCOMPLISHING REQUIRED TASKS.
Thus you would have definitely made more mistakes in the same amount of time.
@Woogey Boogey Well, according to a failed checkride the SIC didn't know how to start the engines either so there's that.
Guys.... Sandoval message, it's a FIGURE OF SPEECH.
I can't believe you would even attempt an approach that close. That is _insane._
That's what I said....just go missed....THAT'S ALL
That decision requires situational awareness, which they didn't have. SMH, this one just angers me.
Not to stereotype, but it feels like some 135 pilots flying these high performance charter jets can get over-confident about what the plane can do.
I was training at a nearby airport in Long Island, and tower sequenced a Citation between us and the runway when we were on a maybe 5 mile final. They told us to find the jet and maintain visual separation, and I was shocked to realize that they meant the plane that just went screaming across the extended centerline, perpendicular to the runway, at least 800-1000 ft above us. I honestly thought it was a plane headed to LGA before they Tokyo drifted it back around, shot through the extended centerline again, crossed the threshold still over the runway side stripe and drifted it to center over the touch down zone. They touched down late and rolled the entire length of the runway before vacating.
I was still really early in my training and don't think I realized at the time how dangerous their maneuvering really was. But even then I realized to not talk about it with my CFI during the approach and wait till after the flight to shake our heads.
Agreed. It was already missed. They were only 1.5 out. There was no way they were going to make 01. The accelerated stall was already guaranteed. That said, ATC should also have recognized that and told them to go around.
These two nubs should have been working at Arby's.
This sounded like two teenagers driving in dads muscle car on a Friday night, not operating a jet in busy airspace. Good thing they didn't take any innocent people with them. As I'm writing this I have a clear view out my window of planes making this exact approach into KTEB. It's unfortunate this happened.
They sound exactly like this
czcams.com/video/s8ptLtYt7wk/video.html
You are one brave fuck who watches things like this while flying in the sky. I would NEVER do that let alone watch anything remotely weeks BEFORE flying. I lack a lot of trust in people i guess.
DeKosta LOL I think they meant they’re sitting in a building, looking out the window at airplanes flying by.
I don't believe the copilot deserves any blame. The pilot in command takes the blame for this.
@@mayday63 Pilot in command always has the ultimate responsibility, but, the co-pilot is NEVER supposed to be a just a spectator, or a bystander, or just another passenger with a nicer uniform than the rest. A co-pilot is supposed to share the work load, observe and report conditions of the weather and the machine, both normal and abnormal, and be skilled enough to take complete command of the aircraft without warning, at a moment's notice, if, for example the pilot suffers a stroke or heart attack or any other form of incapacitation. Fortunately, in this case, the Lear carried no passengers. But, with or without passengers onboard, what was the plan if the pilot in command became disabled and the co-pilot, who was so unskilled that, in theory, he was not to touch the controls, was the only person on board with any flight training? What kind of operation would even risk such an event occurring?
These guys should never have been in the cockpit.
Beta the airlines scarfed up all the decent guys. This is what’s left for corporate operators to choose from !
They were not. In fact they were 200nm behind the airplane
@@dboy4ever LOL
How is it possible that you commented 3 days ago? The video was posted today.
@@xoviat I got the link from AOPA. I guess they post it publicly a few days later?
Good example of being about 2 days behind the aircraft. What a mess.
Right? what a disaster.
@@SuperPhunThyme9 Who in their right mind is doing 240 at the FAF??
If I select an answer of “fifteen hundred” on the private pilot written, like approach said at minute 9:45, could the answer be wrong because I should have selected one thousand five hundred?
@@Tsteps On an FAA written test? lol.. probably. One-thousand five hundred is correct.
worldtraveler could you explain please? I'm not a pilot, so I don't understand what the confusion was at this point. I know he said 200 feet by mistake instead of 1500 feet, but what's the difference between one thousand five hundred and 1500 in aviation speak?
Thank you for your patience in clarifying this for me.
The lack of situational awareness was clear when the pilot said he’ll cross a waypoint at 200 feet
That's not funny
My brother died that way
@@ublade82 He crossed a waypoint at 200 feet?
true but i will admit atc sounded like they said 200
I’m going to make this a separate post to explain why there were no passengers. There had been the Van der Velde group that had been picked up and taken to PHL and were supposed to fly back later after a golf outing. This is the NTSB interview summary for Murphy, one of the Van der Velde brothers: “He said the landing was one of the scariest he had ever experienced. As the front came through PHL, there as pretty strong winds behind it and the weather was moving through pretty fast. He had flown into PHL before and they always landed on a different runway than the big jets used. This runway was shorter. The wind was from the west and they were landing more to the northwest. When they were about 5 or 6 feet off the ground, the plane felt like it fishtailed as if it was a car on ice. The tail fishtailed so much he thought at one point they were going to land at 90 degrees to the runway. His brother sitting next to him grabbed his hand on the armrest and was like “holy cow, what the hell was that.” They landed and then got off the plane. They went into the bathroom, getting ready to get in the car, and his brother looked at him and said, “I don’t want to fly on that plane anymore.” They both looked at each other and said “let’s drive up to TEB.” They did not want to have to go through that again since it was unnerving. They told the pilots they were just going to get in the car, go play in this golf tournament and then drive up to NJ and “you guys do what you gotta do.” An hour or two later he saw on one of the news apps that said a small plane crashed in northern New Jersey. That night his brother said to turn the news in New York and they saw the red tail of a plane embedded in a hangar or warehouse outside a runway and they knew the tail number and learned that it was the airplane they had been on.
Holy shit! 👀😳
Dude imagine being in that position. Like holy shit I’m so glad I listened to my intuition
They should have bought a lotto ticket that day!!
Thank You for sharing. I'm so glad they listened to their gut and refused to get back on the plane.
@@jimbo1959they already won the lottery that day. But yes I agree haha
Humble, be humble and critisize yourself frequently.
Yeah, everyone makes mistakes!
A case in point "critisize..." :D
DirkDucat Criticize*
DirkDucat good life advice.
"The co-pilot had been rated 'Zero' thus relegating him to Ballast Status."
Let's not demean ballast by comparing it to him.
I’ve never heard of a zero rating from a company. My company doesn’t do it. When a pilot at my company gets to a point where they don’t want them to fly, they are terminated.
@@mrkremko1 I bet your days are numbered then. Start working on that resume.
"eject from 20,000 Feet" status
Jeeez! These guys were so far behind the airplane that I’m surprised they were in the wreckage.
Zach Mulligan
Judging by the photo of the wreckage, I’d be surprised if they found them in it.
@@BassGoThump smoked blk
They arrived at the site two days later via an Uber where the FAA field agent and the NTSB smashed them into the asphalt with sledge hammers to complete the crash scene.
Burn
@@rsrt6910 no need, they would find the pilots dead at the scene with car parts mysteriously around them
You know, I increasingly feel that humility is the greatest virtue in the cockpit.
This is a great review of a sad situation. These case studies are just invaluable. Thank you ASI! For helping the rest of us avoid the mistakes of others. It all starts with awareness and nobody does this better than you. Thank you.
Well said TFP, these are great videos.
@@MattInIllinois /gg
Even as a non-pilot, watching and listening to these incidents unfold is gut wrenching. It wasn't just one or two mistakes that started a chain reaction, these guys were actively digging their grave with every passing moment.
They should never have been Pilots in the first place… this goes way beyond the “swiss cheese” model!
I was two planes behind these guys on the Jaike arrival that day. Gotham was in front of us. The accident aircraft missed and messed up several calls. I definitely remember him reading back the Dandy cross incorrectly. We were both kind of wondering what was up with them. We were both surprised to hear they had not switched to tower despite being handed off several moments earlier. We were switched to tower in time to hear them call to the accident aircraft twice and then hastily close the airport with a quivering voice. It was at that point I looked up and saw the plume of smoke. We were approaching Dandy and I immediately felt sick, knowing what had just happened. (We got missed instructions and took vectors to EWR.)
3:28....let that marinate. "Did not know how to start the engines". Hmmmmmmmm....maybe flying isn't for you. Driving may be questionable.
Aaaand, flying inverted in the same sim report.
Next time call it quits if you can't find where the key goes
i wouldn't even trust this guy to get out of bed in the morning to be honest.
aaaaan crashed on takeoff and ILS approach. I think it's crazy they even let him sit right seat.
This guy barley qualifies as a passenger let alone right seat!
A Captain who should’ve been an FO and an FO who should’ve been working at McDonald’s.
Don’t underestimate the skills required to work at Mac Donald’s. It’s all dense information receiving\processing, procedure following, multitasking and stress management. All essentials for piloting too. Never done it but watch the dynamic next time you’re in there.
These guys were seriously lost in space. No briefing, violation of procedures and practically zero SA. They were just along for the ride.
Yeah I watch and read a lot of these case studies. Not sure I've seen such an unprofessional pilot before. Failed on so many procedures ... Not the time or place to be training and not paying attention ... You have LaGuardia, JFK and Newark within a stone's throw.
How about ZERO COMMON SENSE?
Both of these idiots did not belong anywhere near ANYTHING WITH WINGS ON THEM!!!! It boggles my mind how they (especially the SIC) passed their commercial and instrument checkrides!! SMH!
Absolutely. Had they briefed the approach beforehand perhaps they would not have flown past the FAF. I guess we are giving the morons more credit than they deserve.
@@747-pilot Right? How can you get inverted or crash on TAKEOFF in the simulator and still have an actual job???
I talked to my dad about this. My dad has thousands of hours in Lears, going back to the mid 1960s. He says that Learjet can get snotty if you don’t handle them correctly but they are an absolute dream to fly! And that basically these guys did pretty much everything wrong that you could do in one flight.
Very well summed up. This crash was a classic sequence of Human Factors failures including appalling airmanship.
There is more to being a good pilot than quantity of hours
This proves it for sure
Exactly. Whether you have 10 hours or 10,000 hours, this line of work can and will kill you if you become complacent and unsafe.
@@hayden4516 Exactly.
There needs to be some type of system that judges pilots abilities on more metrics than just hours . The industry over simplifies and only cares about hours. Hours definitely matter, but they are not everything
I think they rely on generous donations to make these.
Probable cause: FWS Flying while stupid.
I call it flying with your head up and locked...
As a low hour private student pilot I have a recurring dream/nightmare that I just show up at the airport, hop in the plane, and take off into IMC and only then realize that I'm not at all competent to do so. That's what watching this video reminded me of.
Remedy for that: keep flying and plan for getting your instrument rating ASAP. Realizing you're not competent at something is the first step at surviving it.
Those guys were in over their heads and didn't even realize it.
Disclaimer: I'm not a pilot.
First don't panic! Trust your instruments and ask for help - don't be proud. You've screwed up but help is there.
The Captain didn’t lose once situation awareness on final approach - he never had to begin with!
On an 80nm flight, the PIC thought they were "hundreds of miles" from their destination?
Their reports should have said: "who let these guys in the cockpit together?"
Daryl Davis, That wasn't a hyperbole? As in "We are *far* from the destination."
This seemed to be a bad read from the video maker. Seemed he was joking. Which isn't an excuse but should have been put towards unprofessional
୲ 𐙼 𐚮 ୲ sounds like hyperbole yea, but being within like 40 miles from touchdown and making such statement, in a jet powered plane, to me, clearly shows how out of the picture he was in that point of time
@@culdeus9559 Not a bad read, a nearly verbatim transcript (NTSB redacts all the obscenities, mostly directed at the people trying to keep the "pilots" from killing themselves or someone else). And less than a minute later, it's "We're only ten minutes out... I didn't realize we're that close," and he's trying to play catch-up with his approach procedures.
Another chilling report. I guess the only positive outcome was no ground casualties.
Mark Davis Very lucky nobody was in that car park at all. Thankfully!
and no innocent passengers as well
Parked cars. The parked cars paid the price.
yes and no passengers.
There would of been passengers, but the ones on it right before this crash refused to take the return flight. This is NTSB interview summary for Murphy (a Van der Velde brother). God it’s so eerie. “He said the landing was one of the scariest he had ever experienced. As the front came through PHL, there as pretty strong winds behind it and the weather was moving through pretty fast. He had flown into PHL before and they always landed on a different runway than the big jets used. This runway was shorter. The wind was from west and they were landing more to the northwest. When they were about 5 or 6 feet off the ground, the plane felt like it fishtailed as if it was a car on ice. The tail fishtailed so much he thought at one point they were going to land at 90 degrees to the runway. His brother sitting next to him grabbed his hand on the armrest and was like “holy cow, what the hell was that.” They landed and then got off the plane. They went into the bathroom, getting ready to get in the car, and his brother looked at him and said, “I don’t want to fly on that plane anymore.” They both looked at each other and said “let’s drive up to TEB.” They did not want to have to go through that again since it was unnerving. They told the pilots they were just going to get in the car, go play in this golf tournament and then drive up to NJ and “you guys do what you gotta do.” An hour or two later he saw on one of the news apps that said a small plane crash in northern New Jersey. That night his brother said to turn the news in New York and they saw the red tail of a plane embedded in a hangar or warehouse outside a runway and they knew the tail number and learned that it was the airplane they had been on.
Well as sad as it is I can’t help thinking that this was the best of a bad bunch of outcomes that could quite easy of happened with these two at the controls.
Very much the truth.
SIC rated 0 and not allowed to fly, and initially failed his PPL twice?? Yeah, some people just aren't cut out for this job.
Perfectly said. It shocks me that people are actually paid just to be the pilot monitoring. He was practically just a passenger.
How tf do you fail your PPL? Just asking...
@The Game How do you fail it twice either LOL?
I like your channel and inspired by your journey(any excelling student) ,because I am also on the same journey but please don’t be that person. People fail Checkrides all the time and ATP rated pilots have been in situations and made mistake to were you would probably have been like “why didn’t they do this “? Do you think they weren’t cut out for the Job? Let’s be humble here .. keep up the good work and good luck
@@shaquillemambo667 I appreciate the kind words. I'm a CFI and I can tell you from my experience that yes, some just aren't cut out for it. It's a very small percentage of people though. Not being rude, but it's in everybody's best interest for safety to acknowledge that. In this video, the glaring problems were far beyond just failing a checkride twice.
What is most worrying is the fact that the SIC is a holder of a Commercial License when he is incapable of basic flight manouvres.
“AIR-ROR & AIR-ROGANCE”...
This is a perfect pilot example of what not to follow.
I can’t believe there is an FAA standard where someone can be Typed in an aircraft but NOT be rated to actually fly it...
What about flight engineers? Just saying
Mark Rose - this guy was certified as an SIC “Pilot” who wasn’t actually allowed to “Pilot” the plane.
@@Sports-Jorge Yeah, I agree, both had no business being in those seats, and it is somewhat astonishing the FAA allowed it
Mark Rose they don’t tend to sit up front, in the same way passengers don’t 😂
It’s an insurance thing. I’m guessing the Lear can be flown single pilot, so the SIC is basically just there to be a safety pilot, and make sure the PIC doesn’t do anything too bad and help with the workload. Many Grand Caravan ops do this. Gives peace of mind to the passengers too. I’ve been advised to stay away from these kinds of jobs, as tempting as they may be over flight instructing.
This gives new meaning to the old cliche "Where did you get your license, out of a box of Cracker Jack?" These guys shouldn't have had a license to fly a kite. Great impartial analysis though.
Yup.
Used to be Cracker Jack, then Kmart blue light, guess it's Twitter now.
Their in heaven right now... STILL doing simulator training to get their wings.
Flight should have been terminated when the flight plan was filed for FL270 for a hundred mile trip. Might have been the first clue someone was not up to the challenge....
What I was thinking as well, the YVR-SEA and SEA-PDX flights that I track only climbs to around 14000 - FL180.
I actually think he thought he was planning to headed back to Boston.
Yep. On the leg from Atlanta to Birmingham Savannah or Tuscaloosa you’d get ~FL17500 max, usually lower, and that’s as much as twice as long depending on routing. My god these two were amateurs. I mean; how the hell was anyone letting them within feet of a yoke boggles my mind.
Title should read: "Learjet murdered by idiots."
Lol
i laughed so hard at this... seriously tho, sad the planes gone
@@plutoisacomet By “deregulation” do you refer to the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 concerning commercial airlines? If so, it is not applicable to this flight or the companies involved.
Be upset with me if you wish. Forget all yall if you berate these two souls. PIC is PIC. Part 91 or not, there were two people in that plane and not simply a sole occupant. If the pilot had a death wish, why compromise someone else's "soul?" What gave that PIC the belief he was any good at being an instructor? Multiple mistakes. . .overconfidence. Extreme lack of teamwork caused two people to lose their lives. That's sad. Nothing funny or humorous about that, but yeah. . .people mourn differently. I expect more from a PIC, but the weakness of human nature is what it is. Little too late for AC 121-42 to trickle down to Part 135 or 91. It's coming. . .I hope. RIP guys.
Fuckin great
Going relatively slow in a C-172 you can make a correction a mile or two from the runway but in a Learjet you have to be so much further ahead of the aircraft. All the other mistakes could have been negated with recognizing there was no way to recovery this approach and a go around was in order.
Each episode higher in production quality. Every incident just as tragic. I do not enjoy one second even learning that these underskilled pilots no longer have an opportunity to improve, having hit a violent end to the road. But you deconstruct every accident in one half the time Mayday does, with twice the detail and four times the applicability for anyone who is, or will soon be, a pilot. Your lessons should bring us all to honor these airmen's memories in our everyday lives, as well as behind the tillers of our boats and cars, and the yokes of our aircraft, by understanding that we, too, are human, and we're prone to erroneous judgment, so we must incorporate the lessons these people could not, and ensure that we, as the weakest link, avoid becoming the break in the chain.
Well said
FAA Part 91 and 135 is scary in the US.
I do my simulator training there and the instructors-mostly retired airline (Part 121) guys-are consistently impressed with our briefings, SOPs, and emergencies/abnormalities. They rarely see that level of proficiency outside of the airlines.
After seeing stuff like this.... I can see why.
The captain was unwilling to admit that they where behind the aircraft and could have just asked for vectors to get out of the system to figure it out. I also question at what point does ATC just have to say, these guys aren't getting it. Turn them away until they are ready. They had to correct them several times and when they were that close to the airport and failed to circle, maybe they should have just called the go around for them. Before you jump on me about the PIC having the authority, I get that. I'm just talking about giving ATC the power to say, "You can't do it safely, go around." If a pilot is given that instruction because they didn't circle when told to do so, THEY screwed up and will remember next time - YOU CIRCLE AT TORBY, not after. Their ego may be bruised, but they will live to complain about it.
Was thinking the very same, what good did the controllers question do... "are you guys gona start that turn?"
unfortunately, atc has no authority to tell pilots how to fly the plane at the end of the day. atc doesnt fly the planes, pilots do, and its the pilots responsibility to make that decision. FAR 91.3..... though i think if the crew didnt say they were starting the circle when they were questioned, they absolutely would've sent them around. they typically give you a little leeway, as nobody flies perfectly, and its not their job to punish pilots who make mistakes. atc exists FOR pilots. keep in mind atc doesnt know whats going on in the cockpit, or if an airplanes maneuverability would be exceeded. they dont know if the guy in that plane is very experienced, new to the area, or what have you. you have to always give the benefit of the doubt, because if you make assumptions you're usually wrong.
i guarantee nobody involved in this accident that day did anything knowing this outcome. its easy to put some blame on atc, but we only are seeing this half of the story. maybe they had conflicting traffic if they sent this guy around? perhaps they made an educated guess based on the hundreds of competent learjet pilots who fly into that airport that havent had an accident, that maybe these guys were a little inexperienced, or a bit behind the airplane and catching up? they want you on the ground and/or out of the way, and its not their authority or responsibility to do the pilots job.
13megaprime you are 100% correct sir. I think he was trying to find a way for atc to help pilots see somethings they may be missing. But as you stated, that’s not the intended purpose, that’s what a copilot is for, and why it’s called “pilot in command”. Atc is only there to keep aircraft spaced out.
I agree. "You going to make that turn?" _now 1 mile out_ . Controller's talking like Busta Rhymes also. But the pilot continually disregarding what he is supposed to do and the second-in-command handing over the controls while in a turn. A lot of people to blame
@@yankeledpilot3191 , agreed. Especially with that plane type, I would think it's reasonable for ATC to assume there was no chance to complete the expected clearance. Why not just issue a go around?
I couldn’t watch the whole thing. It was like listening to a train wreck in slow motion.
I agree!! As I kept watching, my already dropped jaw, was dropping more and more in disbelief!! These missteps were such basic (and serious) ones, in the fundamentals of flying, some of which even STUDENT pilots are taught over and over!! And as I watched more and more, my disbelief started turning to anger!
They could have taken down innocent lives and also innocent people on the ground!! Stroke of luck that it did not come to that! Things like this also put a negative light on the piloting profession, as we pride ourselves on being the CONSUMMATE PROFESSIONALS, that we are!!
747-pilot well said.
I mean, if we analyzed your life and only brought up negatives it would sound like your life is a trainwreak as well
David
NO.......these aren’t just “negatives” they’re enormous FUCK - UPS ! They’re not the way a professional aviator would conduct a flight. Actually they’re not the way ANY pilot should conduct a flight.
As someone training for my pilots license I ignored these videos out of fear, but now I am addicted as I realized quickly these are some of the greatest lessons I will ever get. Sucks it's at the expense of all these people as so many are avoidable but such is life.
Learning from their tragic mistakes means their deaths weren’t a complete waste. These videos have no doubt saved lives.
One of the best breakdowns of an accident I’ve ever listened to. My first 50 hours of flying was out of Teterboro and I never soloed. I was lucky to be able to steer it on the ground, follow all the instructions that the airport throws at you and just lining up and waiting sometimes took 30 minutes of your Hobbs meter. Eventually broke out of this airport and went to Sussex airport… And within two hours I was soloing. My brain can’t handle all that radio chatter and fly… Again thanks for the breakdown. Great job.
It can't just be your brain. I have had military and other hearing tests and while my zone is pretty incredible, I need to "comb" through all the radio chatter than runs allthewordstogetherrealfast!!!
I remember seeing all the CCTV footage from various cameras of this accident. It gave me nightmares, and it's scary to think that once you're on a path to death your whole life can end that quickly. There's no stopping it and saying "let me try again." This shows that an accident is hardly ever just an accident, but a series of really bad decisions that add up to greatly increase your probability of getting killed.
The even sader part is that there is a "let me try again". Push up the thrust lever, wings level and go around.
@@benedikt5974 You're right, if they made that choice they would have had another chance, but enough bad choices may leave you with no time left to make anymore good ones. Their choices sealed the deal with death.
Glad to see more accident case study videos. I love these, there is so much to learn about what not to do.
This is literally my favorite CZcams channel now. I don't really like flying or find it interesting -- but your voice and analysis are both top tier. The scripts are so well written and clear.
Did they just suddenly forget they were flying a plane...........badly?
"Damn this simulator is realistic as fuck!"
@@xcalium9346 lol, I just spit out my coffee
I'm surprised the employer was so negligent with vetting pilots. I imagine there was a fight with the insurer as they ignored due diligence.
These accident case studies are always riveting, even if in a dour way.
yes, no pilot,so complex, I don't really understand it
DIdn't know a Learjet had the space for all the balls these guys dropped.
Captain is lazy, prone to errors, and, sloppy.
Co pilot is a 0/4 rated "hit or miss" seat holder who fails checkrides...
Employer: here's a jet to fly!
Holy hell how much $ would that operator have charged to charter that aircraft..ohh well at least the crew looked the part with obligatory aviator glasses.
I imagine the insurer refused to pay for damage and the company and owners are out of the business...? Please?
Attempted low altitude acrobatic turns on final? Disaster waiting to happen with this captain. Thank God for no passengers.
I am not sure if anything was preformed correctly on this flight. Whatever company these guys flew with should be shutdown for allowing to let pilots of this skill level be at the controls.
im pretty sure with some instruction a 12 year old could do a better job
These pilots seem like they could barely fly a Cessna caravan let alone a twin engine jet requiring 2 pilots. I also don't understand why a company would hire a pilot who is so bad they cannot even fly the plane.
I do better in flight sim
@@Hedgeflexlfz they dont want to pay for a better pilot so they can save money and get a bad pilot on the cheap.
@@thequake180 you don't think the pilots were paid well?
It's so tragic that we lost such a beautiful jet aircraft.
Imagine being a passenger on one of their earlier runs that day and now seeing how poorly they handled that last flight!
I was just thinking that. The people who chartered that jet and decided to drive to NJ are grateful they trusted their gut on not getting in that plane.
There were!! And it was so bad when they landed they vowed NOT to get back on the airplane. That's the ONLY reason it was a repositioning flight. Later that night back at home they watched the news only to find out the plane they avoided crashed and burned!!!
This from he NTSB interviews:
This absolutely makes the hair rise on the back of my neck, just imagining other lives that could have been sacrificed in the air & or on the ground w/the incompetent PIC! SMDH...
Sorry, not just the incompetent PIC. The SIC was just as bad or worse. I don't understand how EITHER of these 2 incompetent, clueless individuals were allowed anywhere near anything with wings on them!
Wondering when they planned to lower the gear. What a train wreck.
I think they would have been better actually doing an entire right handside loop to have more time to prepare.
*plane wreck lol
How about transfer on a 90° pitch?
" hey , you better take control now ."
2000 feet above the ground no less !
Yeah - complete madness.
Yup. Like changing plans on the trapeze; after you've been tossed.
No worse than a Tesla on auto pilot! "Here driver u take control" a mere inches (& less than 30 milliseconds) from a concrete divider at 70 mph
Taking turns like a fighter jet. Unbelievable. I can only imagine the faces of the people in the tower.
Embarrassing for their families.
From a former airline pilot and Civil Air Patrol instructor, thank you for a first rate video
.......Proof again, a pilot's license if just a piece of plastic/paper...
Any instructor that has conducted check-outs of would be renters, or even stage checks, will agree.
Marc Pagan being in the geriatric Air Force is nothing to brag about
@@designedbybold
Boldly said, you Alpha Male, you
...from behind both a keyboard, and fake name.
An added bravo to you,
for defaming the CAP, a group that enables Veterans who lost their medicals, to fly if a flight instructor, like me, is PIC.
Well done
....clearly I'm an awful person for putting my 8+ airline, FAA, and Civil Air Patrol checkrides/licenses/certs on the line each time I fly with a Vet without a Medical.
@@MarcPagan basicmed allows everyone who lost their medical (under certain conditions) to fly again, as acting PIC. I see your point about the licenses and certs being put on the line, but lets not forget that there are people who are more of a danger to those on the ground that fly. i.e if&when they crash. like you said, that cert is only a piece of plastic/paper.
Marc Pagan it’s not just a piece of paper, it just shows some idiots can skip through. The SIC failed his private pilot check ride twice. Isn’t that a clue?
@@Hedgeflexlfz you know, some of the best pilots failed their private once or twice. you're just starting out and a lot of guys dont understand the scope of flying. with that being said, twice is a lot. i wonder how the rest of his training went. he obviously got through, though how marginal were his performances?
This was basically a training flight for the SIC. Unfortunately his teacher was incompetent.
Farayi Darlington Chaparadza they both were
These guys shouldn’t even be driving a Honda Accord.
VaIbHaV YaDaV and you crashed English grammar.
flyingrv6 i would not let them push a grocery cart!
Guy probably wouldn't even be able to start a car, he couldn't even start a jet. Just amazing.
Captain was way too cocky and at the end paid for it by taking 2 lives.
ss Dunning-Kruger effect?
Too many 135 operation pilots have a cavalier attitude like this, but this one takes the cake. Neither's airmanship was adequate for L-35 ops. I wouldn't let them fly my Merlin with these attitudes or capabilities. This is worse than initially told as I recall. I agree they both chose the wrong profession.
I wouldn't let them operate a lawnmower.
Well now they both got no profession
Its in the 121 operations as well. When I went from the right seat to the left I was shocked at the complacency and nonchalant attitudes of the FO's. All had good hands but I was disappointed with their attitudes. They would have given their left nut just a few years prior to be hired by a major then when they got there, all thought they were owed the job.
@@downstream0114 Well said!! 😂 Thank goodness they did not take down innocent lives with them!!
@@jcheck6 And these same FOs eventually become Captains and then that awful cycle continues!! Sadly it seems that gone are the days of the super professional folks like Captain Sully Sullenberger and Jeffrey Skiles!!
I'm surprised they didn't find the PIC intoxicated or similar judging by his cavalier attitude - particularly while the SIC was clearly showing signs of stress...but then maybe hard to determine after your flight ends in a fireball.
I don’t even have a pilots license or own an airplane but I love binge watching these accident case studies they’re so interesting
Easy to criticize the pilots. Common response. Understood. And valid. IMHO though, the culture that put these pilots in the cockpit must receive some of the flak also. Someone (DO, Chief Pilot, Scheduling) needed this reposition, approved this pairing, deemed this an acceptable risk and pushed out this flight. These fellow aviators did not wish to end up a statistic. Taking entry level position for low pay, commuting, fatigue, crash pads filled with snoring, desperate to prove yourself..... Hard to say no to a situation that may be unsafe when hungry for flight hours and literally hungry. Crews take these assignments daily without complaint. Rarely is there a culture in place that allows someone to say no to a flight when not comfortable. You risk your status, employment, self esteem. So suck it up and roll with it..... often with horrifying consequences. My condolences to their loved ones.
Very well stated.
the company who hired them should have put them into a single engine trainer routine, especially with their poor performance record.
@@Garth2011 One possibility. A better one would be to hire a qualified Lear Instructor to fly with both and supervise the entire Lear staff.
Hey Daniel, great observations, this.was a train wreck the moment these 2 boarded the plane.BTW, my maiden name is Goodson.
91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.
(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
Finally a new video!
Agreed..I was wondering if they were going to do anymore of these..kinda get hooked on them after awhile...these are better then some of the shows you see on tv....maybe they will make more of them,
So well presented.
So addictive
@S J haha..I agree...so well done...
As always an excellent decomposition, illustration, and discussing of salient lessens learned by ASI from these events. These case studies are a tremendous resource. Keep them coming!
These two were already behind the aircraft before it even took off in Philly.
Most of these serious accidents are well underway before any engine(s) are started.
behind two in blk smuk smoke
Jesus all those mistakes and they still would've been alive if they just chose to go around....
Let's hope they knew Jesus.
@@painterboy454 Damn good he was not with them in that jet...
@@troo_story, if you have not accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior YOU will spend an eternity in hell in moment you die!!
@@painterboy454 got any proof of that? Sounds like a fairy tale but, to each his own.
@@painterboy454 that's bigotry and hate of different view points.
The Taliban and ISIS think like that.
That flight was a cluster #### before they even began engine start procedures.
Sad for the pilots families, but glad there were no other fatalities.
Perfectly good cars paid the price. And the Learjet, the Learjet didn't do anything wrong.
These are invaluable, interesting and well-made videos. Thank you so much!
Your videos are always top notch! Thank you for doing this case study!
Absolutely amazing video! This is my favorite series on the entire site. You guys really outdo yourselves every time
Love this channel so much and narrator does such a great job
Thank you for publishing these. I have watch all of this series multiple times. I'm not a pilot, but some of the behaviors and other problems are applicable to my job. Please continue to make these!
The quality of these videos is AMAZING. Learning a lot! Thank you.
Amazed they didn’t kill anyone on the ground.
I'm guessing they tried to but failed at that as well.
So many mistakes! Ask to go around if it is not going right! Don't ever do last minute panic maneuvers to satisfy the control tower when there are issues you are having. These last minute decisions by PIC led to their death. PIC needed to pay attention to tower and not be coaching Co-Pilot. Radical turn maneuvers, to close to the ground, and attempting to stay above stall in those movers is deadly! Always remember stall speed increases in tight turns. If the approach is not going well do a missed approach, go around!
You do not ask for permission to reject a landing. Clearance to land is also clearance to fly the missed approach. Too high, too fast, or too long? Go around. Wind isn't being cooperative? Go around. Don't like the color of that tug sitting on the ramp? Go around.
@@notalizardperson 2nd that, but I'll add that you don't even need to announce a go around. Fly the plane first, clean it up then get on the radio LAST.
Go around. Don't ask.
I agree with the go around - but it is all PIC decision. No need for permission there. If it affects the safety of your flight - go around and go around immediately.
@@jankeymunter Aiviate, navigate communicate etc.
Just getting back up in the air after a two year break, so binge watching the ASI videos. Can't help but frequently get teary at the pure waste of it all. Excellent to remind and reinforce the need for proper procedures, checklists, situational awareness and keeping my ego in check; ie == Professionalism
Wow, finally I have been waiting so long for you guy's to make more "Accident Case Study" episodes. Thank you so much.
So happy to see another case study video. You guys do such a great job with these. Please to try publish a new vid at least once a month.
Why didnt the captain respond the first time when the guy who wasnt even allowed the fly got nervous and wanted to give up control?
...why was he even coaching the guy in the first place?
Right? Especially when he was inept himself. Biggest takeaway for me is to know my place and not step out of it!
I'd like to see if there was some kind of directive from above. "Let the kid fly it, and keep a close eye on him. We really need him to work out, and maybe with a little work, he'll be okay. Sink or swim." I don't know how the operation worked behind the scenes, but I can absolutely see an administrator going to a pilot with that kind of a directive, and if the PIC was under pressure to coach up the kid, and the SIC was under pressure to learn or be released, I could see the whole situation accelerating out of control like this.
@@don_5283 Or the captain was the one trying to "help" the SIC. Without inside info, there's a lot of possibilities, unfortunately.
Yeah, as clueless as the sic was, pic should have taken over. Not sure if that would have helped because the pic wasn't stellar either
I love it when you guys do these videos! They're great!
Thank you ASI so much for making another one of these videos! They are so interesting and educational, especially to people in flight training who plan to fly professionally. Please keep them coming!
Crashed twice in one sim checkride and still had a job?! How?!
Upgrayedd Makes no sense
Corporate checkrides are customer-oriented. If a company is failing all of the applicants shelling out millions of dollars, they will go somewhere else and that company is now bankrupt.
robo931 ahhhhhhh makes sense now...🤦♂️🤦♂️
Thank you for making these, ASI!
Thank you very much for posting it on CZcams. Keep them coming. Incredible stuff to watch.
I would like to congratule the channel. Once again you guys nailed it. Great educational video. I wish you guys could post more often. Inn the other hand, the lesser the accidents, the better.
"Dandy at 200 feet" lol
That PIC must have been suicidal. Such a blatant disregard...the entire flight.
Love these case studies. Please make more!
Good analysis. This really proves the importance of approach briefings, departure briefings and much more of course. Thanks for producing this so we can avoid accidents like this in the future.
When you see this kind of thing happening in a commercial environment, there are several things to remember: 1) training to proficiency is not cheap It costs a LOT of money. Some companies rely on the willingness AND the ability of the PIC to instruct the FO instead of sending the FO to "real" training, which was the case in this flight as well.
2) Companies do not want to spend money.
The chief pilot knows exactly how much it costs them for each tenth on the Hobbs meter, and he is happy to tell you about it if he thinks you allowed too much time to elapse for a flight, which is why these two pilots wanted "higher" and "faster." It's money. As far as being Captain material, if you are a PIC in the regs, you are a PIC for them.
3) Training and proficiency are often insufficient for reliable, safe flying.
In order for these companies to keep the pilots that do become proficient (as in them not leaving for a wide body 121 job) they would have to pay them more money, which they will not do. After all, there is another guy right behind them who is hungry for PIC and turbine time. For decades now, this situation has been treated as being acceptable. I refused to remain a part of it.
Goddamn, I wouldn’t let that sort of environment exist in the cab of my pickup truck, nevermind the cockpit of a jet aircraft.
love these case studies, keep em coming. A lot of new incidents to do an episodes on.
I love this channel and thank you for posting a new accident case study. You’re making better GA pilots everywhere :) Follow the rules, stay ahead of the airplane, familiarize yourself with the destination, and do not try salvage a bad approach.