“Why didn’t you include CEA-2034 and vertical contour plots? Are you trying to hide something!?” First: As always, I will have it on my website shortly after my video goes public. I timed the videos to release during the day and then when I get home from work, I publish the data to my site. If my videos are longer than 20 minutes people complain. I typically shoot about 40 minutes of video. Then I have to decide what are the more important aspects and edit the rest out. For this speaker I felt it was more appropriate to spend some extra time discussing the implication of woofers placed close to the floor and the floor bounce effect. I traded off showing those two graphics in lieu of discussing a topic that many people are unaware of. FWIW, there is other data on my website that I don’t discuss in my videos for the same reason. I’m time limited so I go with the more important aspects. And the rest is shown on my site. If you want to know my thoughts on the CEA-2034 data and vertical contour, then here you go: The CEA 2034 shows the same resonances that you see in the frequency response linearity graphic that I showed (which also shows the preference score, BTW). The same resonances I mentioned in the video translate to the CEA-2034. The ERDI actually looks pretty dang good, especially considering the vertical directivity. It essentially shows us what the horizontal contour plot shows in this particular speaker’s case. That is very smooth directivity up through the lower treble where narrowing begins to occur. Vertical: As a rule, it’s typically safe to assume that unless the speaker is a coaxial design - or some, not all, 3-way dome tweeter designs - that the vertical window is going to be within 20 degrees of the reference plane. This speaker closely does the same so I didn’t see that as something that needed 40 seconds of discussion in this video. Instead, I mentioned being on axis with the tweeter as the primary listening position. But I know that those who want to see the data would be able to see it on my website once I made that public. ✌️ Erin
Erin, the way you describe your love for stereo and sound stage is something I relate with. You should look into the Bacch4Mac software system that was created by Theoretica Applied Physics. I haven't experienced it yet, but Tom Martin of Absolute Sound raves about it as a game changer. You may already be aware, but I figured I should mention it in the off chance you haven't.
Erin, man you just "gotta do what you gotta do" regadless what of suggestions anyone makes in the comments, even ME !!! You just do what you feel is right and not worry about if somebody thinks the video is a little too long or the video is too short or whatever .. if they want to do it their way, they could run their own YT channel.. don't be swayed by any audio enthusiasts . If they're independent thinkers, they're all going to think something different anyway! 😉
Good on PS Audio to lend you a pair of speakers to test. They turned out to be pretty decent speakers. Some high-end audio companies can be skittish over having their "stuff" measured.
@@dan_hitchman007I’m the designer for this product. Value is a personal thing (what your priorities are). In the states, we offer a 25% trade in on this product (giving you the full retail value for your original purchase), so factor that in as well.
The 7khz dip is caused by diffraction issues in the planar tweeter. All BG / NEO 3 tweeters have this issue, I have ran into it with all 4 NEO / BG 3 tweeters I have used in projects.
Our tweeter is based off very similar construction to a neo3pdr (I worked at BG for 5 years as an engineer) with a different diaphragm (with thinner traces for higher impedance) and much stronger magnets and better QC/lower distortion. That dip appears after high power use and correlates with the clamped width of the diaphragm. I’m looking longer term at some alternate materials and construction methods to improve this. As Erin notes, it can be very hard to hear narrow band dips like this and I still really like the sound quality of the tweeter
@@cbrunhaver I agree, the BG tweeters and mids I have used are definitely better matched and of higher quality than the GRS's. However, in my test (using ground plane measurements at 2 meters), the 7k dip is present at all power levels. EQ seems to fix it for the most part when measured at multiple seating positions. I tried my hand at fixing this issue by 3d printing "fazors" and waveguides, but they always would have trade offs. I look forward to seeing what solution you and PS Audio come up with!
@@cbrunhaver Thanks for the response and info. Just as an FYI, many years ago both Erin and I have experimented with and used the B&G neo3pdr as the HF drivers in our 3-way front + subwoofer car audio systems with 8+ channel DSP with good results. I've used the the neo3pdr, neo8pdr, and neo10 in a few DIY home designs as well with impressive results. I can understand why you like them, especially with your improvements to the design. Cheers
This is exactly what I expected. Ps audio doesn’t always measure great but man all their gear I’ve heard has been enjoyable to listen to. And last I checked that’s really all that matters. Looking forward to the fr5
This vid demonstrates a speaker that does not need to measure perfect to sound great. PS Audio always recommend treated rooms. Paul is advicate of well treat rooms.
@@pulDag they measure “good”. People seem to think flat is “great” but I’ve returned many a “flat” speaker in my life. I hope they hold their value as poorly as other ps Audio gear and I can grab a pair for $4500 next year 😂. These would be end game 100%
As soon as I saw you were going to review a PS Audio product, I immediately smashed the video to hear your thoughts and analysis. I am a PS Audio fan and a fan of your channel as well... Awesome day today 🎉
Great that you referenced songs and described what you heard. I think this is th best way to describe sounds. Would it be possible to create a play list with your testing tracks and gives examples of what you are looking for in a good speaker in reference to the track? That would be amazing. Thanks again for your great work.
Hey, check out this video. I discussed some of my favorite tracks to demo speakers with and give some ideas of what I’m listening for. Unfortunately, my program down mixed Stereo to mono so some of the things I’m pointing out to listen for in stereo effects won’t be audible to you in this video, but you can listen for them on your own Through streaming services Songs I Use to Demo Speakers and What I Listen For czcams.com/video/54E36HCDZLk/video.html
Great review. I like the approach by listening first, measuring after very much. You are not hearing "what you're supposed to hear" from knowing the measurements. Cool speaker!
This loudspeaker will sell really well. First of all I love the design! I’m fed up with all this vintage fake wood with stands that add an extra 25% to the price. You really have to select decent partnering equipment too. Nice review
I really love the styling of those speakers especially the fr30. The only problem is the fr10 cost in my country around 14k$, for such prices I can buy custom made speakers etc.
Well, the thing about dips is that they don't stand out as much as a peak does. You may notice something is lacking but you won't feel like there is an overabudance; and personally the latter is what I pick up on the quickest. After using some EQ I found that filling in the 600Hz region helped add fullness so ideally that dip wouldn't be there. But as a whole I found the speakers had qualities that I really liked.
@Expedition18 I'm interested in these as well. @cbrunhaver was discussing them in an interview on another channel...a 2-way stand-mount with decent low-end extension will always be a good seller. Chris also discussed that they are working on releasing FR-series Subwoofers, potentially with a lossless low-latency wireless transmitter/receiver.
Fantastic review Erin! Thanks for the subjective + objective analysis about these beautiful speakers. You thoughts about the correlation between objective and subjective data is insightful.
During my COVID travels, I was fortunate enough to have Paul give me a tour of the facilities and listen to the FR30's in their (unfinished) listening room. The bass and mid bass are in my top 2 best listening experiences ever with the first being at the San Francisco Hi Fi expo back in the 90's listening to a pair of Wilson Grand Slams (I don't remember the exact model). IMO, to say the bass is good is an understatement of the highest order. However, I could not get past what I considered an incoherency in the sound between the bass and mid bass on one side and the midrange and treble on the other. It sounded as if I was listening to two separate speakers with one playing the low end and the other playing the upper end simultaneously. I don't know the why of it, but my guess was the ribbon drivers did not coalesce with the bass drivers for me. I wish they had, because who needs two kidneys?
Awesome EQ potential..good data. I think they are super cool looking..i dig everything about it. If i had the bread to throw around I'd buy 'em. Props to PS Audio for being part of the show
You've positioned your review perfectly IMHO. Not afraid to say what you like about them and also providing the data to explain what you are hearing. If I was PS Audio, I'd be happy and I'd use this as important input into a Rev.2 model
ahhh, I could not remember what they called that. I know I've seen it used many times. First time I saw it was Joe Walsh at a concert in ~1996 (Rocky Mountain Way). Thanks for that info and memory!
Great video, Erin. I love your mix of subjective with technical… it’s an educational approach that really lands and it teaches me more about our hobby … one step at a time. You could do a ‘master class’ type of series to sharpen our ears, help us maximize our existing systems, and teach us how to analyze what could improvements could bring our system up to the next level of audible performance. Thank you for your time, efforts, and love of audio.
Excellent review Erin! The combination of subjective description and impressions with the measurements was great. It's always great to have someone with a good ear give impressions as well as correlate those impressions to the measurements. It's one thing to see all the zigs and zags on a frequency response graph, but given the complexity of loudspeaker performance, it's also good to hear the subjective impressions which can indicate certain errors are not as obvious to the ear as one might intuit from the graphs. I got a good impression of this speaker's sound from your descriptions.
This is a very easy to understand and in-depth review in real-world conditions with testing tools to back up your findings and impressions! Very well done!
6:09 You know as many times I heard that song I never really "heard" that. Super cool. I pulled up the song closed my eyes and grinned as the footsteps crossed in front of me. Really cool. Gonna keep that test in my back pocket. Also your impression of the sounds of Sweet Emotion were actually pretty good haha.
After hearing Roy Allison’s Allison 9 I have always liked using 2 woofers with one nearer the floor and one higher nearer the midrange. This is a challenge with all stand mount speakers but with floor standers you can do this.
You are just the dude I am interested in (sonically) cos you dabble with speaker builds and acoustics. 😮 My built speakers cost $500 and I wouldn't trade them with the most expensive speakers in the world! It's Schiit easy to build! Put a woofer in a speaker box (how you like, and of course with an inductor) and mount an OPEN 5" FR driver on top of the box. Use lots of Blue Tack or plasticine to quickly mount the open FR driver on the box, and piggy back connect it to the woofer binding posts. Also experiment with sloping the FR back, so it's not so much in your face. You can make a crossover filter for the FR driver or just run it straight through. I like the filter for more upper treble and a bass roll off at like 100 hz (better for impedance and power handling). Use ELECTROLYTIC caps for FR drivers (especially the low value one) try it and hear how good FR sounds with electrolytics! More silky and less brittle! I don't care what they say, I got an AU $1,800 amp and I still stand by electrolytics for FR. For tweeters though...not so good. Not klangy enough. But FR are super klangy, and electrolytics mitigate that and make them shine! To make the filter, I used a 3 ohm resistor (or 2 ohm with bright FR) that is in series with a 100 mf cap. And they are both in parl with a 2 mf cap. To be used on an open FR. Also slit the FR cone (right through l with a stiff hobby blade) with slits 1 cm long, 1 cm out from the center edge. With 6 mm (1/4") gaps between the slits (that are not cut). Use the blade to widen the slits just enough so the edges DON'T touch, to stop vibration.😅 Also get rid of any whizzer cones or dust caps and replace with cloth or felt (tricky). Push the felt disc in and glue only at 5 points around, with a toothpick. Easy if the felt stays by itself (make it slightly larger by a twiddle-twat). Now it has NO ENCLOSED CAVITIES! No air trapped inside and causing coloration, only a completely open single source, no out-of-phase whizzer cones making 2 sources instead of one. I use a 5.6 mh inductor on the woofer. But if woofer is too strong, resist it. Or if med/treble is too strong, resist it more (and the naked 2 mf cap stays unresisted). They are the best speakers I heard, or at least the most FUN speaker. Mine are great for FR stuff (like string quartet) sounds that are so delicate. And with the 10" woofer in a big box, it's every bit as good for doof! Super clean shimmering voice and thymph, with super deep bass. Mine have a woofer firing down onto the floor, under the speaker. It's a vague sound source and the bass vent is a ring vent around the open FR. This strengthen the illusion that the sounds come from nowhere. 😅 The slitting mod and no enclosed cavities on the FR make way better treble than most tweeters. No sippy sound, like a lot of soft domes, just perfect detailed sweet naked highs (sounds just as high as tweeters). The sound is point source and dipole, and if there is any REVERB in a recording, you are going to hear it. You won't believe what you are hearing. My FR cost $9 each, and they are high end in sound. Even the dudes in the hifi shop were amazed. I build speakers based on the same pricipal and took them there. When you make some, you will hear a voice in the room, that you will mistake as a real person and jump out of your skin! It still happens to me when there is a (recording to my room) acoustic match. My friend had a problem with his phone and it wouldn't stop beeping, and he fumbled with it for a few seconds and he eventually realised that the sou d was coming g from my speakers. 😅 I heard a really low jet go over our house and quickly looked out the window for a few seconds, not realising it was from my speakers that were each 3 ft away from my head. The sounds seem to come from nowhere! Super 3D with a soundstage that follows you around the room like a rainbow follows you in spray from a sprinkler. The tone in the med range is so clean! And (unlike most 2-ways) where the med range meets the treble is like heaven! The silver sound! 😅 If this doesn't convince ce you to try it, nothing will. The EXPERIENCE is so good that it makes me appreciate being alive, so much. Now, I just don't want to die! You are there (at a live gig) with the band. And they remind me of going out dancing with bands in the 70s and onward. 😅 Make some and play IMY2 Fade Into You. Ambience! 😮
It would be nice to see the vertical dispersion graph. One advantage of narrow vertical dispersion is that it reduces floor and ceiling reflections and improves imaging. This is why ribbon drivers used as they are on the PS Audio speakers are a good design choice.
@@razisn Graeme "Graz" Keet in Australia makes replacement diaphragms for the Infinity EMIM drivers that are ribbons: just corrugated aluminum strips on a frame, no film.
@kdomster9141 Chis Brunhaver, PS Audio's lead speaker designer tends to lean towards creating loudspeakers with a more neutral response, rather than a purposely "flavored" or "colored" sound signature, i.e. Sonus Faber, etc. And as Erin touched on, Chris discussed purposely contouring the lower midbass/bass response so that they could be placed relatively close to the wall without creating overly exaggerated or "boomy/bloated" in-room bass response in typical rooms.
@@bbfoto7248 other than bass there are couple other bumps and dips and when done purposely it makes it a custom curve and house sound , it also could be just the wisest way to make these drivers coexist while maintaining the best possible resolution and fidelity of sound .
This is the Review that I've been waiting for.. Detailed, Concise and exactly to the Point. 👍 Your reviews are Fantastic!! E for Erin E for Excellence!! Thanks for this info cause I'm very interested in purchasing a pair to replace my Polk Audio RTI A7s and are also the same dimensions. I just wish the finish was piano black like the FR 30 & 20s. They do look like they have more luster in your video than on their website. One last thing regarding your pinned comment up top.. I'm older and sometimes nerdy and I do appreciate explanation, breakdown and details of anything that gets measured and tested..so for me I would watch and soak up the knowledge you're giving us for hours and not just 20 minutes. Just Sayin.. I really appreciate what you do and Thank You for it. ✊ Cheers ✌️
Hi Erin, this is an impressive speaker (especially distortion & compression) & so it should be at $10K/pair (many others arn't). Congrats to the designer Chris Brunhaver at PS Audio. What is confusing me, you describe the sound as 'warm' but there's nothing in the data indicating warmth? Let's hope PS Audio sends you an FR5 to measure, it's more budget friendly.
@trevorbartram5473 I think Erin might have said "warm" as more of a "relative to" statement, as so many speakers these days have some form of "presence" boost in the upper mids and/or treble regions to approximate "extra detail & air". EDIT: Copy & Paste of Erin's response to a similar question ---> "I tend to find 'warmth' in speakers that might have a little bit of 1-2khz removed, maybe a slight decrease in upper HF (>10kHz). This particular speaker having that dip ~600-900Hz and the mild dip ~1.5kHz is why I described this as more of a 'warm' sound. Obviously your definition may vary." - Erin H. Trevor, I agree overall with your statements and in regards to the price of the FR10 based on its performance but also its somewhat unique design and base + build quality & finish. And I'm also looking forward to the 2-way FR5 Stand-mount as well. Chris stated that he tried to achieve a bit more low-end extension with the FR5 than most, so it will be interesting to see if there are any compromises to the midrange due to this.
While that would definitely be an added benefit, Chris Brunhaver really does know what he's doing, regardless of what you or any of us think of the measurements here. Keep in mind that despite that, Erin still ultimately ranked this speaker in his TOP 3. There are some unique advantages to using this type of midrange and HF Planar drivers that 98% of traditional cone or diaphragm drivers can't achieve, but there are some inherent tradeoffs as well, and Chris mentions all of these in various comments here. Personally, soundstage and imaging performance are one of my top criteria when considering any set of speakers, and from Erin's commentary regarding this, I know that these must be doing something right in a very good way. IME with the planar mids and HF drivers that these custom PS Audio units were derived from, some of their properties help to achieve that immediacy, clarity, and precise imaging/soundstage performance. So IMPO, using these drivers was a solid decision and a worthwhile tradeoff. In addition, if there are no glaring issues otherwise, and just a bit of EQ here & there can mitigate most if not all of the potential spectral balance/tonality/timbre anomalies I'm hearing, I'm good! ....I'm gonna be doing that anyway with ANY speakers that I use just due to my room and the speaker placement limitations. The last thing to consider is their design aesthetic. And I'm kind of on the fence with these. On one hand, I like that they are different and not just a typical rectangular box speaker. And while the design is unique, it's also not too over-the-top, like the larger Wilson Audios, or some of the other more exotic/boutique brands. I do also like the clean, somewhat minimalist design, but I also like a bit of a traditional "touch" by using natural wood finishes that have beautiful grain patterns such as matte/natural or satin dark walnut. It just adds some warmth and naturalness, but still contrasts nicely with white as well IMO. But I realize that with this speakers' curvaceous exterior profile, incorporating real wood panels or real wood veneers would be difficult and costly. With the particular technical design choices that Chris made regarding the near-floor midbass/bass drivers, the use of the passive radiators and the compensation for relatively near-wall placement, along with the known (to me) performance of similar planar drivers, I think this is a speaker that I'd really enjoy and want to have. And disseminating what Erin's subjective listening impressions were even adds to that confidence. Ideally, of course, we'd all need to hear these for ourselves to make a final determination. But I think it would be VERY interesting if we were all able to put these up against a few competitors that are known to have excellent (better) measurements while being in a similar price range in a fully unsighted/blind listening test to see what we ended up choosing. 😉 ...Perhaps the Revel Performa F226Be and the Børresen X3. Anyway....I kind of went off on a tangent, but that's my typical M.O., sorry. 😛
It would be very helpful if you could do spectral decay plots as that is a very important element to determine a speaker's performance. Thanks for your efforts.
Well, these are based on essentially the same driver height (which is the cause for the slight step in response) and both are somewhat similar to the BG NEO8.. We use much thicker magnets and of a higher grade (N52) a different diaphragm material, additional metal on the edges and custom corrugation to improve the distortion performance and sensitivity/output considerably.
I'm wondering if the 600 hz dip might also be caused by the large space between the mid range ribbon and the woofer placement being so far from each other. Might be a comb filtering issue where the two drivers are cancelling each other due to arriving at slightly different times and causing the reduction in that frequency area.
It’s not that. There is actually a small peak around 900 hz from the cavity resonance of the internal length of the magnets (about 7.5”). We stuff the rear chamber and the stuffing may be a little close to the diaphragm here. I may consider raising the mid level but peaks are more audible than dips, generally.
I never, as in hardly ever, point speakers right to my ears. Almost always point them off axis about 10 to 15 degrees. This makes for a much more realistic presentation.
That’s fine. However, most speakers are designed to be pointed directly at the listener. I say that based on having objective measurements for over 200 different speakers.
So we have to remain with our ears on the axis of 2 speakers to enjoy 10k speakers? ..to become slowly a bit deaf by hour and and not moving too much in the room ro lose on axis pleasure.. Thank you but I can wear/fit a pair of Focal headphones most expensive (actually ..cheaper that those 10k dollars floor speakers) and enjoy my music anywhere in the room or outdoor if I want to. It is pathetic for 10k to be asked to remain on the axis of those speakers to enjoy music in your room these days, isn't it?
Could you do the marantz stereo 70s in the near future? I would love to see how it holds up and, as always, keep up the great work, Erin. I appreciate you.
Have not yet heard either, but the OG Børresen 03 is truly End Game from personal experience. A blind FR10/X3 comparison would be interesting me thinks.
@roccobruno8027 Agreed. A 100% Unsighted (Blind) listening test between the FR10, Revel Performa F226Be, and the Børresen X3 using the same signal chain and (capable) amplification would be VERY interesting!
Seems like a fairly competent speaker. I wonder how the vertical and DI looks like, if both are good, this could be EQ'ed, and I'd expect pretty decent results due to the fairly low distortion and well extended FR.
The horizontal directivity is really quite good. But the vertical, as expected with a design like this, has some deviations. It’s rare that anything other than a coaxial driver has very good vertical, so I tend not to worry so much about that personally.
@@ErinsAudioCorner It would be cool if you got hold of some 70/80s era EPI / Genesis Speakers. I have the 70s era EPI 100v speakers, with the upgraded "Inverted Dome" tweeters... and it does not matter where or how I place them. The soundstage is Insanely Wide, 3D, and Crystal Clear in Details, without being Harsh. Initially I was forced to place them under my PC desk... due to space limits of my room, at the time. It didnt impact the sound quality and image, in a detectable way, at all ! Those drivers are absolutely Magical. When I first heard these things, it was at a friends Slot Car track + Small Vintage Arcade. He was playing some Earth, Wind, and Fire. I swear, I couldnt detect any Drop-Off, until I was beyond like a 15x15 ft area. In fact, there are so Holographic in Projections, that I couldnt FIND the darn things... despite looking for about 10 minutes straight. I eventually had to ask my Friend, what they were... and where the Heck they were! He walked me to the front of the store. About 1 ft from the floor, sitting on a 1ft wide, and 1ft tall, ledge... very close to the stores massive window glass. They were about 5 to 6 ft apart. One was laying horizontally, having about 3 feet worth of magazines stacked on top of it (he is a packrat). The other, was vertical.. and was partially behind a Sit-Down racing game (Atari's "Race Drivin" arcade machine). Basically, the worst type of setup you might imagine... and yet, the sound was out of this world. Detailed beyond belief, incredible.. wide.. 3D holographic soundstage, great deep, punchy, and musically accurate bass. No way to tell any separation from the drivers... acting even better than a "Coaxial Single Point Source Driver". In fact, you could blindfold someone... spin them around 20 times.. and they likely wouldnt be able to find the speaks by merely trying to walk towards the sounds. THe speakers basically "Vanish" into the room... and all thats left, is sound that seems to come straight out of thin air, into various places of the room. EPI was eventually bought by Genesis Physics. The 2 way model was so popular, that Genesis continued to make Similar speakers, based on the same principles and using the same drivers. They have various modified models, however... such as one of them adding a Passive Radiator. One of the former workers from EPI/Genesis.. has a website, where he sells hand made replacement drivers, as well as does repairs, and custom builds. humanspeaker is the site. It has details about all of the EPI / Genesis models. He even made an Improved version of the famous Inverted Tweeter. Ive not heard / tested any of his parts, so I cant vouch for anything he sells... as all of my drivers are Originals. Just make sure that if you get a pair of EPI's / Genesis Physics speakers, that you get the ones with the upgraded tweeters, and the original woofers. EPI made a major revisions to the tweeter, fairly early on... which is far more detailed and able. The Good tweeters have a plastic Bezel around them... where as the bad/older tweeters, use a fiberboard backing. The EPI 8" woofers are also special, in that the designer used heavier gauge wire on the coil windings. He did this, to automatically filter out high frequencies going into the woofers, without needing an additional Crossover component. The thought was that the crossover component itself, could introduce some changes / distortions to the actual incoming sound. I dont know if thats accurate or not... but I can tell you, that I hear things in music that Ive never been able to hear in any other speaker, with them. Especially in complex music, like Disco... where there are so many instruments and vocals, all at the same time. Most speakers distort the sound, so that instrument and vocals become fuzzy and blended together. With my EPI's, everything maintains its own Clarity, and Details, without getting muddied. As such, Ive been able to understand vocalist lyrics, 100% crystal clear... That Ive never formerly been able to understand at all. Id be curious to know how you compare them against ribbon tweeters. From what Ive understood from many reviews, is that ribbons tend to be very Narrow in projection, as well as very "Directional". Meaning, you have to sit in an exact certain spot, to get a perfect image effect... and a mere few inches in any direction... results in a very different experience. A notable drop in levels. Where as the EPIs.. you can get a near perfect image, almost anywhere in the room. I can only assume that the EPI's might not have as clear of details as the Ribbons... but I really dont know, as Ive only ever heard one ribbon tweeter speaker, and it was a 360 degree bi-pole, that sounded artificial.. due to distortions when bouncing all over the store, that they were in. Anyway... the EPI / Genesis speakers seem to be a largely unknown to audiophiles... and as such, you can often get them for pretty cheap. I picked mine up re-foamed for $100, which is pretty insane, for what they can do. They probably could complete with (or beat / destroy) modern speakers, that cost well over $10k. All I can say, is that the best local high end speakers that I listened to... that cost a bit over $3k, didnt hold a candle to the EPIs. Its was not even close. Im not sure if Genesis Physics is the same as the existing Genesis company. I believe they are different... but Ive never researched into it.
I’m using the GRS neo 3 planar tweeter in a build and it has the same exact narrow dip at around 7k as well as the peaks around 5k and 12k. Kinda suspect, is that what’s in here? I’ve used the original Neo3 from BG and it was very smooth.
That 200 to 500hz range is what makes me love or hate speakers. When done right it really makes low male voices beautiful full and warm! Love the fact it sets such a steady soundstage, that really is a lovely bonus from speakers! Best sounstage i’ve ever heard was produced by a speaker brand called Illumnia and the speakers were called Magister MK2. Really waiting for the Blade Meta review!
@@ErinsAudioCorner For the people who believe LS50 high passed to multiple subs is a cheat to getting high-end sound…I think the floor bounce null is going to get in their way.
These seem pretty cool!! 🎉 great review! Great info! I truly believe you are one the absolute BEST reviewer on here, however and I mean no offense, I kinda wish you had included more visuals and audio examples during the video rather than only one image for most of the video. 🎉 I got into the video most of the way and practically forgot what the speakers look med like.
I'm going to get Erin a pair soon and will reach out. This first couple of units we had available went to Stereophile and Hifi News but he's on the list as well.
@@cbrunhaver Sounds great, Chris! I think the FR5's are going to be a lot more accessible for the typical audio enthusiast in terms of price and in terms of the environment that they have access to enjoy them in. I'm anticipating an excellent value proposition. Thanks for the info and good luck to you!👨🏻 Also, I would like to suggest and recommend that anyone interested in the FR5's should definitely consider spending the extra 14% for the pair of FR5 stands the company offers for them..👍👨🏻
I know this is an older speaker but anyway you could check with HSU into sending you a pair CCB-8 to test, also analyzing/thoughts using one as center channel. This of course if you are interested in testing them. I have seen some subjective test of them but no data to back up what they are hearing.
@user-kn8ik7hf1d Erin has stated that he has tried to contact HSU Research multiple times and received either no response or no interest in sending him anything to review. The BEST thing that you and others can do is to EMAIL or Call HSU directly and tell them you are interested in purchasing their product(s), but are "on the fence" because you are waiting to see independent objective measurements/data as well as subjective impressions from someone like Erin. The more people that request this, the more chance he will be willing to send product to Erin.
Thanks for the review Erin - even though it's for speakers I'll never be able to afford. Sometimes it's fun to see how the top 2% live... When you mentioned the footsteps going from right to left on Thriller, I went to my FLAC tunes to check it out. I got a bit frustrated when it wasn't present on the track on "The Essential" CD. But I did find it on the 1982 CD and the 25th Anniversary release. (Whew!) I too like it when stereo effects are incorporated into recordings and when I see a Band live. It just adds to the performance. I watch every one of your reviews, because you have real data. Good Luck with the channel. PS - Any chance of getting HSU's CCB-8 done soon?
Erin, I am having a hard time finding information on this. In your opinion what makes bass sound "thick". I have heard systems and subwoofers from high to low. Revel Salon 2's with no subs, revel bookshelves paired with a arendal sealed subwoofer, and revel m106s paired with a facebook find 15 year old paradigm subwoofer. My favorite sounding bass somehow comes from the cheap paradigm subwoofer, it feels full and thick where the bass coming out of the more expensive systems just seems to be lacking texture and thin. Sure its punchy, snappy, but it just doesnt sound full. What paramaters of a subwoofer should I be looking for when shopping to find something that I would like. Obviously low time domain and low distortion arnt what makes me like a sub.
Hey Erin. I'm fairly new to your videos. You seem to be able to explain tech better than any I have seen. I'm not tech savvy but open to learning. I have Magnepan LRS+ in my living room and like them except for the height of sound. Outside of bigger Maggies woulf the Kef Blade 2 be good at filling a room with width and height? Thanks for any comments.
It is hard to make wideband planar magnetic drivers ruler flat but, done well, they have a lot of benefits like clean decay, low IMD, good dynamics and wide horizontal coverage.
Erin, what generally causes a speaker to have a warmer or cooler presentation? Is it simply a result of on-axis response or do other factors such as resonance and distortion play a part? Does driver cone material impact the tonal characteristic as well? A while back, I demoed a pair of Paradigm Founder 100Fs next to a comparable Sonus Faber model. While they sounded more alike than different, my biggest takeaway was the Paradigms had a cooler/more clinical presentation.
I tend to find 'warmth' in speakers that might have a little bit of 1-2khz removed, maybe a slight decrease in upper HF (>10kHz). This particular speaker having that dip ~600-900Hz and the mild dip ~1.5kHz is why I described this as more of a 'warm' sound. Obviously your definition may vary.
Gotcha. That may help explain why the Paradigms had less warmth since the measurements I’ve seen show a rise in frequency response starting around 1.5 kHz.
@T8424 FYI, a lot of Sonus Faber models are purposely "voiced" with a shallow recess between 3k-4k combined with a slightly elevated response above 10kHz. This might be perceived as "warm but with plenty of detail & air". I'm not as familiar with the Paradigms.
@@bbfoto7248I have very limited experience with both brands and I don’t recall liking one significantly more than the other. The salesman did express his preference toward Sonus Faber though.
@@T8424 In general, the Sonus faber "house sound" is "sweet & lush", for lack of better subjective terms, LOL. But even some of their different lines have a different sound signature. A lot of people like their "house sound". But it's really difficult to learn what YOU really prefer without having all of these different speakers to A/B side-by-side and directly compare. While these particular "voicings" may sound pleasing overall, with certain vocals or instruments they may either hide/mask or exaggerate details. And as Erin always states, there is no perfect speaker, and each one has tradeoffs (Hoffman's Iron Law, etc.). Your room, the speaker placement & aiming, and the distance to the listening position will all have an impact on the final result. This is one reason the Estimated In-Room Response can be useful. But you'll need to correlate that with the variables above.
Good review . Honest. I love a wide soundstage and bass is important to me. They are working on a sub. Again , really good review , you are hitting your stride man.
On the Klippel they have a slight bass shelf. But then the woofers are much closer to the floor than normal. So perhaps they will be somewhat even in normal positioning?
It’s not uncommon for this to be the case when speakers are designed to be placed closer to a wall. Klipsch, KEF, etc do this with some of their models.
I think after room gain you could get closer to flat if your room is the right size to give enough gain for the lower frequencies. I know my Kef R7s (Somewhat similar where they have a extended bass shelf) in my semi small room shocked me with how much bass they had even down to 30Hz and a bit below.
I hate that the looks of a speaker would influence my decision, but the rounded bottom of these makes them look like they are upside down to me, and about to fall over. I just could never get over that if I owned these. I realize that is completely subjective and most people probably love the way they look. I wish they would have just made the bottoms square.
I get it, but to me, it is refreshing to see something different than your typical rectangle. ;) I also like that fact that they have a Satin finish instead of Gloss. I'm still a fan of a natural dark walnut wood grain cabinets with a matte or satin finish, but that would be really difficult to do with all of the curved and rounded-over edges of these speakers.
I believe that Vandersteen's Trio speakers cost approximately the same as the FR10 speakers. Have you auditioned the Trio speakers? If yes, how do they compare to the FR10 speakers?
@@cbrunhaver Thanks for letting me know about Erin's Treo review. However, I found virtually no value in his Treo review. His review was 98% charts / specifications. But if I wanted to know how the speakers sound, his review gave me basically nothing that helps. -- Do the speakers have good dynamics? -- Are the speakers transparent? -- Do the speakers disappear? -- Do the speakers throw a wide soundstage? -- Are the speakers musical? -- Do the speakers have listening fatigue? To what degree? -- Do the speakers give you a realistic "you are there" listening experience? -- Do the speakers struggle with deep bass, or does it sound effortless, tight, and detailed? -- Would Erin be happy if he had to live with these speakers? If I had a robot that had to listen to these speakers, then Erin's review would be helpful. But I can't see how a human can reap any useful help from his review.
@@NoEgg4u well, Erin’s reviews are of a less subjective nature. From the measurements you can see it’s transparent but lacking body and low midrange somewhat. They also seem to be very limited in macro dynamics because of very high distortion /compression in the lower midrange (owing to the first order crossover of the small midrange, likely) This isn’t really an area where fatigue happens (that has more to do with upper midrange and treble which are very good on these. I’m sure you could private message him for more feedback.
@@gurratell7326 I wouldn't say "never" as the perceived "value" of anything is relative and interpreted differently by each individual based on multiple factors.
I like Paul but some of the stuff that comes out on his CZcams videos. I just pretend he is just "playing the sales game" and giving people what they want to hear. Can't deny these are pretty speakers though!
The best intro ever.. =) Im not sure about that shirt .. I like the one in the thumbnail more. They just released the FR5 - bookshelf ... any plans? I like these in person. They never seem to sound bad at all.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Yes, that will be interesting to see (and hear) since it's a 2-way without the dedicated midrange, and Chris stated that he tried to eek out a bit more low-end extension from the FR5.
Sounds like a pair of speakers designed and engineered to load the room correctly. Minimising the need for room treatment. Too many people use room treatment, DSP and EQ to correct a speakers inadequacies!
I’m sure you could. My biggest issue would be finding one that has the horizontal dispersion that I liked from these. Even some of the better revel offerings have diffraction issues in the upper midrange/lower treble. And speakers that tend to not have this are horns or coaxials which don’t have as broad radiation.
I have a hard time calling anything a true “value”. Especially when you have a speaker that isn’t a standard box. Because at some point you’re paying for the look and that’s not an objective component.
@@avnut5517 I posted this in another similar comment here, so it's a "Copy & Paste" but still relevant: The price might seem steep, but for what you are getting I assure you it is not. As someone with extensive woodworking/cabinetmaking experience, if I were commissioned to build and finish just the cabinets/enclosures for these to the level of quality that PS Audio has, I would quote my customer in the neighborhood of $4000-$5000, and potentially more depending on materials costs at the time. Otherwise it wouldn't be worth my time. The diversion from a simple rectangular box enclosure/cabinet to a very unique curved profile with round-over edges everywhere makes these exponentially more difficult and time consuming to construct. Top that off with a high-quality finish. And contrary to popular belief, it is not easy to achieve a perfectly smooth and uniform satin finish. And then there are the added custom-machined aluminum bases and other parts. Not cheap! Wrap that up with very high quality custom/proprietary drivers (and the passive radiators add quite a bit more to the cost compared to using a simple port tube), plus well-designed, good quality crossovers that use high-voltage capable air-core inductors, polypropylene metalized-film capacitors, and wire-wound resistors in order to maintain the overall stability and performance of the speakers at all listening levels, and you're looking at a very large chunk of cash! The speaker designer also primarily employs 4th Order 24dB/octave filters (pretty much a necessity for the planar drivers), so that increases the parts count and cost of the crossovers as well. FINALLY, you need to price them for the retail consumer market so that you actually make a PROFIT and can continue to Stay In Business after having to pay ALL of your multitudes of business/operating expenditures, which most people GROSSLY UNDERESTIMATE! You ain't gonna get good quality Champagne on a Beer Budget! I understand that a large majority of HiFi/audio enthusiasts will not be able to afford these, but IMHO they are not overpriced. But if they meet all of someone's personal requirements as to the quality of sound, appropriate size for their room, and cosmetic aesthetics/industrial design with good WAF and no other loudspeaker they've considered "checks" ALL of those boxes, then they might be considered a very good value.
well Erin, that Fr10 sounds/looks reasonable😉.. now the real question is ..what does the $30,000 speaker afford you in comparison? Also, at speakers in the price range of the fr-10, it would have helped to compare to it other speakers in that $10k price range, but that would be asking alot; it wouldn't be fair my looking at it from a $2000 /pair price mentality.
As the designer for the PS speakers, I can give you some insight into the speaker lineup. When reproducing bass frequencies at a given loudness, the woofer displacement required quadruples for every octave you go down (e.g. going from 40 Hz to 20 Hz). Most of the difference between the three current models comes down to dynamics (higher power handling, lower distortion) and greater deep bass extension/output. The larger models do you an improved midrange driver with smoother response, lower distortion and higher output as well. There are other differences too, but this is the bulk of it.
@@cbrunhaverHello Chris! I am a retired RF engineer, and an amateur musician that started out to be an AF engineer, and as such I would've expected that (your spot on candid response), and I really do surely appreciate you taking the time here. My comments were more geared towards Erin and his casual viewers.. I was anticipating that most people would want to know how it compares to other $10k speaker pairs, and ultimately, a review and comparison of how the FR30s measure up against the FR10's, although I wholeheartedly agree with what you were saying because that IS what makes the most sense to me based on my experience and technical background, even though I've never actually designed speakers. Thank you so much for your response Chris.. it demonstrates that you truly care about speaker technology, your contribution in crafting the products within it, and offering insight into it all for the layman. Have a great day, and keep up the great work! 👍
@@shipsahoy1793 thanks! I think Erin is offering a great resource for people to learn about speakers on a somewhat deeper level and I’m happy to chime in on some of the engineering trade offs and decisions
You forgot to put in the vertical disperson graph, and this is the achilles heel of such long drivers. I'd bet the soundstage height is abyssmal. I've done some experiement with way shorter ribbon drivers than drivers used here and those drivers are insanly directional heightwise. Otherwise loved the vid!
“Why didn’t you include CEA-2034 and vertical contour plots? Are you trying to hide something!?”
First: As always, I will have it on my website shortly after my video goes public. I timed the videos to release during the day and then when I get home from work, I publish the data to my site.
If my videos are longer than 20 minutes people complain. I typically shoot about 40 minutes of video. Then I have to decide what are the more important aspects and edit the rest out. For this speaker I felt it was more appropriate to spend some extra time discussing the implication of woofers placed close to the floor and the floor bounce effect. I traded off showing those two graphics in lieu of discussing a topic that many people are unaware of.
FWIW, there is other data on my website that I don’t discuss in my videos for the same reason. I’m time limited so I go with the more important aspects. And the rest is shown on my site.
If you want to know my thoughts on the CEA-2034 data and vertical contour, then here you go:
The CEA 2034 shows the same resonances that you see in the frequency response linearity graphic that I showed (which also shows the preference score, BTW). The same resonances I mentioned in the video translate to the CEA-2034. The ERDI actually looks pretty dang good, especially considering the vertical directivity. It essentially shows us what the horizontal contour plot shows in this particular speaker’s case. That is very smooth directivity up through the lower treble where narrowing begins to occur.
Vertical: As a rule, it’s typically safe to assume that unless the speaker is a coaxial design - or some, not all, 3-way dome tweeter designs - that the vertical window is going to be within 20 degrees of the reference plane. This speaker closely does the same so I didn’t see that as something that needed 40 seconds of discussion in this video. Instead, I mentioned being on axis with the tweeter as the primary listening position. But I know that those who want to see the data would be able to see it on my website once I made that public.
✌️
Erin
People will always want more and less at the same time 🤪
You can please some people some times, but you can't please all the people all the time
So now you see the light
Come on and Stand up for your rights
Erin, the way you describe your love for stereo and sound stage is something I relate with. You should look into the Bacch4Mac software system that was created by Theoretica Applied Physics. I haven't experienced it yet, but Tom Martin of Absolute Sound raves about it as a game changer. You may already be aware, but I figured I should mention it in the off chance you haven't.
Erin, man you just "gotta do what you gotta do" regadless what of suggestions anyone makes in the comments, even ME !!! You just do what you feel is right
and not worry about if somebody thinks the video is a little too long or the video is too short or whatever .. if they want to do it their way, they could run their own YT channel.. don't be swayed by any audio enthusiasts .
If they're independent thinkers, they're all going to think something different anyway! 😉
Seeing as how critical some people are, just leave a 5s graphic for them if video length is a concern
Good on PS Audio to lend you a pair of speakers to test. They turned out to be pretty decent speakers. Some high-end audio companies can be skittish over having their "stuff" measured.
Just not $10,000 decent.
@@dan_hitchman007 100% accurate
They should have been nervous
If they were not, they are fools
They may have looked at Erin as an easy Mark
Wrong 😑
@@middleearthltd I highly doubt that they have any misconceptions about Erin.
@@dan_hitchman007I’m the designer for this product. Value is a personal thing (what your priorities are). In the states, we offer a 25% trade in on this product (giving you the full retail value for your original purchase), so factor that in as well.
The 7khz dip is caused by diffraction issues in the planar tweeter. All BG / NEO 3 tweeters have this issue, I have ran into it with all 4 NEO / BG 3 tweeters I have used in projects.
Thanks for that info, Sir. Good thing to know.
Our tweeter is based off very similar construction to a neo3pdr (I worked at BG for 5 years as an engineer) with a different diaphragm (with thinner traces for higher impedance) and much stronger magnets and better QC/lower distortion.
That dip appears after high power use and correlates with the clamped width of the diaphragm. I’m looking longer term at some alternate materials and construction methods to improve this.
As Erin notes, it can be very hard to hear narrow band dips like this and I still really like the sound quality of the tweeter
@@cbrunhaver I agree, the BG tweeters and mids I have used are definitely better matched and of higher quality than the GRS's. However, in my test (using ground plane measurements at 2 meters), the 7k dip is present at all power levels. EQ seems to fix it for the most part when measured at multiple seating positions. I tried my hand at fixing this issue by 3d printing "fazors" and waveguides, but they always would have trade offs. I look forward to seeing what solution you and PS Audio come up with!
I did not have this issue on my build with the BG’s Neo3, but the GRS response is very choppy, with this 7k dip and peaks at 5k and 12k.
@@cbrunhaver
Thanks for the response and info. Just as an FYI, many years ago both Erin and I have experimented with and used the B&G neo3pdr as the HF drivers in our 3-way front + subwoofer car audio systems with 8+ channel DSP with good results.
I've used the the neo3pdr, neo8pdr, and neo10 in a few DIY home designs as well with impressive results. I can understand why you like them, especially with your improvements to the design.
Cheers
This is exactly what I expected. Ps audio doesn’t always measure great but man all their gear I’ve heard has been enjoyable to listen to. And last I checked that’s really all that matters. Looking forward to the fr5
This vid demonstrates a speaker that does not need to measure perfect to sound great. PS Audio always recommend treated rooms. Paul is advicate of well treat rooms.
@@genkifd But they measured great. It's not only frequency response (which is +-3dB) but IMD in multitone, which is great.
@@pulDag they measure “good”. People seem to think flat is “great” but I’ve returned many a “flat” speaker in my life. I hope they hold their value as poorly as other ps Audio gear and I can grab a pair for $4500 next year 😂. These would be end game 100%
🙄😬😝@@tylerhackman6832
That's what people like to say about McIntosh but historically audiophiles dismiss the brand.
As soon as I saw you were going to review a PS Audio product, I immediately smashed the video to hear your thoughts and analysis. I am a PS Audio fan and a fan of your channel as well... Awesome day today 🎉
Congrats on your success!
Best technical speaker reviewer I know of on CZcams.
Completely agree
Audioholics is also good 👍
@@whoguy4231 But they don't have a Klippel.
Great that you referenced songs and described what you heard. I think this is th best way to describe sounds. Would it be possible to create a play list with your testing tracks and gives examples of what you are looking for in a good speaker in reference to the track? That would be amazing. Thanks again for your great work.
Hey, check out this video. I discussed some of my favorite tracks to demo speakers with and give some ideas of what I’m listening for. Unfortunately, my program down mixed Stereo to mono so some of the things I’m pointing out to listen for in stereo effects won’t be audible to you in this video, but you can listen for them on your own Through streaming services
Songs I Use to Demo Speakers and What I Listen For
czcams.com/video/54E36HCDZLk/video.html
@@ErinsAudioCorner thank you! Not sure how I missed this!
My son (15) loves the Thriller album and I grew up as an MJ fan. Don’t apologize for liking that album - it’s a great one.
Great review. I like the approach by listening first, measuring after very much. You are not hearing "what you're supposed to hear" from knowing the measurements. Cool speaker!
This loudspeaker will sell really well. First of all I love the design! I’m fed up with all this vintage fake wood with stands that add an extra 25% to the price. You really have to select decent partnering equipment too. Nice review
I would like to see a comparison with the Polk R700 which cost five times less. Most things aren't worth what they cost!
I really love the styling of those speakers especially the fr30. The only problem is the fr10 cost in my country around 14k$, for such prices I can buy custom made speakers etc.
What country are you in?
"I didn't notice [dips] in my initial listening [x2]." What I'm hearing you describe is a well-tuned pair of speakers. Thanks for the review!
Well, the thing about dips is that they don't stand out as much as a peak does. You may notice something is lacking but you won't feel like there is an overabudance; and personally the latter is what I pick up on the quickest. After using some EQ I found that filling in the 600Hz region helped add fullness so ideally that dip wouldn't be there. But as a whole I found the speakers had qualities that I really liked.
Erin, the sound you hear on Sweet Emotion is a 'Talk Box'. Peter Frampton's 'Show Me The Way' is probably the most famous usage of a Talk Box.
Hi Erin I do like your channel more and more lately because you’re honest!
Great review!!!!! Stated what you heard and gave data...you are THE reviewer!!!!
I appreciate that!
Saw Paul showing off the FR5 stand mounts hope they send you a pair.👍
@Expedition18
I'm interested in these as well. @cbrunhaver was discussing them in an interview on another channel...a 2-way stand-mount with decent low-end extension will always be a good seller.
Chris also discussed that they are working on releasing FR-series Subwoofers, potentially with a lossless low-latency wireless transmitter/receiver.
Fantastic review Erin! Thanks for the subjective + objective analysis about these beautiful speakers. You thoughts about the correlation between objective and subjective data is insightful.
During my COVID travels, I was fortunate enough to have Paul give me a tour of the facilities and listen to the FR30's in their (unfinished) listening room. The bass and mid bass are in my top 2 best listening experiences ever with the first being at the San Francisco Hi Fi expo back in the 90's listening to a pair of Wilson Grand Slams (I don't remember the exact model). IMO, to say the bass is good is an understatement of the highest order. However, I could not get past what I considered an incoherency in the sound between the bass and mid bass on one side and the midrange and treble on the other. It sounded as if I was listening to two separate speakers with one playing the low end and the other playing the upper end simultaneously. I don't know the why of it, but my guess was the ribbon drivers did not coalesce with the bass drivers for me. I wish they had, because who needs two kidneys?
Awesome EQ potential..good data. I think they are super cool looking..i dig everything about it. If i had the bread to throw around I'd buy 'em. Props to PS Audio for being part of the show
You've positioned your review perfectly IMHO. Not afraid to say what you like about them and also providing the data to explain what you are hearing. If I was PS Audio, I'd be happy and I'd use this as important input into a Rev.2 model
Great work Erin! The quality of your content has really evolved and matured!
Looking forward to more electronics testing too!
thank you for helping out the community man, much love.
Any time!
Sweet emotion effect is a talk box. Allows you to blend guitar signals and vocals via tube in mouth.
ahhh, I could not remember what they called that. I know I've seen it used many times. First time I saw it was Joe Walsh at a concert in ~1996 (Rocky Mountain Way). Thanks for that info and memory!
Great video, Erin. I love your mix of subjective with technical… it’s an educational approach that really lands and it teaches me more about our hobby … one step at a time. You could do a ‘master class’ type of series to sharpen our ears, help us maximize our existing systems, and teach us how to analyze what could improvements could bring our system up to the next level of audible performance. Thank you for your time, efforts, and love of audio.
Excellent review Erin! The combination of subjective description and impressions with the measurements was great. It's always great to have someone with a good ear give impressions as well as correlate those impressions to the measurements. It's one thing to see all the zigs and zags on a frequency response graph, but given the complexity of loudspeaker performance, it's also good to hear the subjective impressions which can indicate certain errors are not as obvious to the ear as one might intuit from the graphs. I got a good impression of this speaker's sound from your descriptions.
Wow, what a review!!! Enjoyed and learnt every bit of the content, thanks for the awseome work!
This is a very easy to understand and in-depth review in real-world conditions with testing tools to back up your findings and impressions! Very well done!
Thanks!
6:09 You know as many times I heard that song I never really "heard" that. Super cool. I pulled up the song closed my eyes and grinned as the footsteps crossed in front of me. Really cool. Gonna keep that test in my back pocket.
Also your impression of the sounds of Sweet Emotion were actually pretty good haha.
LOL. Thanks. But I'll probably still keep my day job. 😂
When I saw the on axis and PIR, I gulped hard. Distortion and dispersion are great though.
After hearing Roy Allison’s Allison 9 I have always liked using 2 woofers with one nearer the floor and one higher nearer the midrange. This is a challenge with all stand mount speakers but with floor standers you can do this.
You are just the dude I am interested in (sonically) cos you dabble with speaker builds and acoustics. 😮
My built speakers cost $500 and I wouldn't trade them with the most expensive speakers in the world! It's Schiit easy to build!
Put a woofer in a speaker box (how you like, and of course with an inductor) and mount an OPEN 5" FR driver on top of the box. Use lots of Blue Tack or plasticine to quickly mount the open FR driver on the box, and piggy back connect it to the woofer binding posts. Also experiment with sloping the FR back, so it's not so much in your face.
You can make a crossover filter for the FR driver or just run it straight through. I like the filter for more upper treble and a bass roll off at like 100 hz (better for impedance and power handling). Use ELECTROLYTIC caps for FR drivers (especially the low value one) try it and hear how good FR sounds with electrolytics! More silky and less brittle! I don't care what they say, I got an AU $1,800 amp and I still stand by electrolytics for FR. For tweeters though...not so good. Not klangy enough. But FR are super klangy, and electrolytics mitigate that and make them shine! To make the filter, I used a 3 ohm resistor (or 2 ohm with bright FR) that is in series with a 100 mf cap. And they are both in parl with a 2 mf cap. To be used on an open FR.
Also slit the FR cone (right through l with a stiff hobby blade) with slits 1 cm long, 1 cm out from the center edge. With 6 mm (1/4") gaps between the slits (that are not cut). Use the blade to widen the slits just enough so the edges DON'T touch, to stop vibration.😅
Also get rid of any whizzer cones or dust caps and replace with cloth or felt (tricky). Push the felt disc in and glue only at 5 points around, with a toothpick. Easy if the felt stays by itself (make it slightly larger by a twiddle-twat). Now it has NO ENCLOSED CAVITIES! No air trapped inside and causing coloration, only a completely open single source, no out-of-phase whizzer cones making 2 sources instead of one.
I use a 5.6 mh inductor on the woofer. But if woofer is too strong, resist it. Or if med/treble is too strong, resist it more (and the naked 2 mf cap stays unresisted).
They are the best speakers I heard, or at least the most FUN speaker. Mine are great for FR stuff (like string quartet) sounds that are so delicate. And with the 10" woofer in a big box, it's every bit as good for doof! Super clean shimmering voice and thymph, with super deep bass. Mine have a woofer firing down onto the floor, under the speaker. It's a vague sound source and the bass vent is a ring vent around the open FR. This strengthen the illusion that the sounds come from nowhere. 😅
The slitting mod and no enclosed cavities on the FR make way better treble than most tweeters. No sippy sound, like a lot of soft domes, just perfect detailed sweet naked highs (sounds just as high as tweeters). The sound is point source and dipole, and if there is any REVERB in a recording, you are going to hear it. You won't believe what you are hearing. My FR cost $9 each, and they are high end in sound. Even the dudes in the hifi shop were amazed. I build speakers based on the same pricipal and took them there.
When you make some, you will hear a voice in the room, that you will mistake as a real person and jump out of your skin! It still happens to me when there is a (recording to my room) acoustic match. My friend had a problem with his phone and it wouldn't stop beeping, and he fumbled with it for a few seconds and he eventually realised that the sou d was coming g from my speakers. 😅 I heard a really low jet go over our house and quickly looked out the window for a few seconds, not realising it was from my speakers that were each 3 ft away from my head. The sounds seem to come from nowhere! Super 3D with a soundstage that follows you around the room like a rainbow follows you in spray from a sprinkler. The tone in the med range is so clean! And (unlike most 2-ways) where the med range meets the treble is like heaven! The silver sound! 😅 If this doesn't convince ce you to try it, nothing will. The EXPERIENCE is so good that it makes me appreciate being alive, so much. Now, I just don't want to die! You are there (at a live gig) with the band. And they remind me of going out dancing with bands in the 70s and onward. 😅 Make some and play IMY2 Fade Into You. Ambience! 😮
It would be nice to see the vertical dispersion graph. One advantage of narrow vertical dispersion is that it reduces floor and ceiling reflections and improves imaging. This is why ribbon drivers used as they are on the PS Audio speakers are a good design choice.
It’ll be on my site this afternoon. I edited some things out due to trying to keep the video under 20 minutes.
Not that it matters in the context of this comment but I believe they are planars not true ribbons.
@@razisn yes, my mistake. Hardly anyone uses true ribbons (though I believe Apogee did).
@@phomchick True ribbon tweeters are not uncommon. I haven’t seen any mids.
@@razisn Graeme "Graz" Keet in Australia makes replacement diaphragms for the Infinity EMIM drivers that are ribbons: just corrugated aluminum strips on a frame, no film.
The FR 5 probably will be more appealing. 😊
I’m interested in trying it.
I'm starting to get the idea of house PS audio speaker sound signature.
Great job and review !
@kdomster9141
Chis Brunhaver, PS Audio's lead speaker designer tends to lean towards creating loudspeakers with a more neutral response, rather than a purposely "flavored" or "colored" sound signature, i.e. Sonus Faber, etc.
And as Erin touched on, Chris discussed purposely contouring the lower midbass/bass response so that they could be placed relatively close to the wall without creating overly exaggerated or "boomy/bloated" in-room bass response in typical rooms.
@@bbfoto7248 other than bass there are couple other bumps and dips and when done purposely it makes it a custom curve and house sound , it also could be just the wisest way to make these drivers coexist while maintaining the best possible resolution and fidelity of sound .
This is the Review that I've been waiting for.. Detailed, Concise and exactly to the Point. 👍 Your reviews are Fantastic!! E for Erin E for Excellence!! Thanks for this info cause I'm very interested in purchasing a pair to replace my Polk Audio RTI A7s and are also the same dimensions. I just wish the finish was piano black like the FR 30 & 20s. They do look like they have more luster in your video than on their website. One last thing regarding your pinned comment up top.. I'm older and sometimes nerdy and I do appreciate explanation, breakdown and details of anything that gets measured and tested..so for me I would watch and soak up the knowledge you're giving us for hours and not just 20 minutes. Just Sayin.. I really appreciate what you do and Thank You for it. ✊ Cheers ✌️
Hi Erin, this is an impressive speaker (especially distortion & compression) & so it should be at $10K/pair (many others arn't). Congrats to the designer Chris Brunhaver at PS Audio. What is confusing me, you describe the sound as 'warm' but there's nothing in the data indicating warmth? Let's hope PS Audio sends you an FR5 to measure, it's more budget friendly.
@trevorbartram5473
I think Erin might have said "warm" as more of a "relative to" statement, as so many speakers these days have some form of "presence" boost in the upper mids and/or treble regions to approximate "extra detail & air".
EDIT: Copy & Paste of Erin's response to a similar question ---> "I tend to find 'warmth' in speakers that might have a little bit of 1-2khz removed, maybe a slight decrease in upper HF (>10kHz). This particular speaker having that dip ~600-900Hz and the mild dip ~1.5kHz is why I described this as more of a 'warm' sound. Obviously your definition may vary." - Erin H.
Trevor, I agree overall with your statements and in regards to the price of the FR10 based on its performance but also its somewhat unique design and base + build quality & finish.
And I'm also looking forward to the 2-way FR5 Stand-mount as well. Chris stated that he tried to achieve a bit more low-end extension with the FR5 than most, so it will be interesting to see if there are any compromises to the midrange due to this.
FYI; Joe Perry used/uses a "talk box" at the beginning of Sweet Emotion, not unlike Peter Frampton on Do You Feel Like We Do.
Perhaps Paul should hire Erin to contribute to designing and testing prototypes, prior to manufacturing, we all know Erin's good for it.
While that would definitely be an added benefit, Chris Brunhaver really does know what he's doing, regardless of what you or any of us think of the measurements here. Keep in mind that despite that, Erin still ultimately ranked this speaker in his TOP 3.
There are some unique advantages to using this type of midrange and HF Planar drivers that 98% of traditional cone or diaphragm drivers can't achieve, but there are some inherent tradeoffs as well, and Chris mentions all of these in various comments here.
Personally, soundstage and imaging performance are one of my top criteria when considering any set of speakers, and from Erin's commentary regarding this, I know that these must be doing something right in a very good way.
IME with the planar mids and HF drivers that these custom PS Audio units were derived from, some of their properties help to achieve that immediacy, clarity, and precise imaging/soundstage performance. So IMPO, using these drivers was a solid decision and a worthwhile tradeoff.
In addition, if there are no glaring issues otherwise, and just a bit of EQ here & there can mitigate most if not all of the potential spectral balance/tonality/timbre anomalies I'm hearing, I'm good! ....I'm gonna be doing that anyway with ANY speakers that I use just due to my room and the speaker placement limitations.
The last thing to consider is their design aesthetic. And I'm kind of on the fence with these.
On one hand, I like that they are different and not just a typical rectangular box speaker. And while the design is unique, it's also not too over-the-top, like the larger Wilson Audios, or some of the other more exotic/boutique brands.
I do also like the clean, somewhat minimalist design, but I also like a bit of a traditional "touch" by using natural wood finishes that have beautiful grain patterns such as matte/natural or satin dark walnut. It just adds some warmth and naturalness, but still contrasts nicely with white as well IMO.
But I realize that with this speakers' curvaceous exterior profile, incorporating real wood panels or real wood veneers would be difficult and costly.
With the particular technical design choices that Chris made regarding the near-floor midbass/bass drivers, the use of the passive radiators and the compensation for relatively near-wall placement, along with the known (to me) performance of similar planar drivers, I think this is a speaker that I'd really enjoy and want to have. And disseminating what Erin's subjective listening impressions were even adds to that confidence.
Ideally, of course, we'd all need to hear these for ourselves to make a final determination. But I think it would be VERY interesting if we were all able to put these up against a few competitors that are known to have excellent (better) measurements while being in a similar price range in a fully unsighted/blind listening test to see what we ended up choosing. 😉 ...Perhaps the Revel Performa F226Be and the Børresen X3.
Anyway....I kind of went off on a tangent, but that's my typical M.O., sorry. 😛
Glad to see . Paul seems like a super nice guy on top of a good audio man. I'll probably never own a pair of $5,000 speakers but I can dream.
It would be very helpful if you could do spectral decay plots as that is a very important element to determine a speaker's performance. Thanks for your efforts.
That 600Hz dip reminds me of the GRS PT6825-8 planar driver frequency respons. It has nearly the same "problem" areas
Well, these are based on essentially the same driver height (which is the cause for the slight step in response) and both are somewhat similar to the BG NEO8.. We use much thicker magnets and of a higher grade (N52) a different diaphragm material, additional metal on the edges and custom corrugation to improve the distortion performance and sensitivity/output considerably.
No good deed goes unpunished. Tho you did seem to trigger Amir again, so there's that 😂
Yea, I enjoyed the review and the thread on the "other" site. Man their panties are in a bind!
@@garyg7993Not all members...some, perhaps even most, are defending Erin's review 🙂
@@QuintEssential-sz2wn Yea, its been quite entertaining to follow. I give them credit for pushing back .
That's not something that you need to work hard to do. You just need to have a different opinion than him..
Being a reviewer has to be one of the hardest jobs
So much subjectiveness
I'm wondering if the 600 hz dip might also be caused by the large space between the mid range ribbon and the woofer placement being so far from each other. Might be a comb filtering issue where the two drivers are cancelling each other due to arriving at slightly different times and causing the reduction in that frequency area.
It’s not that. There is actually a small peak around 900 hz from the cavity resonance of the internal length of the magnets (about 7.5”). We stuff the rear chamber and the stuffing may be a little close to the diaphragm here.
I may consider raising the mid level but peaks are more audible than dips, generally.
@@cbrunhaver 19:46
@@cbrunhaver Thank you sir for a very concise answer.
I never, as in hardly ever, point speakers right to my ears. Almost always point them off axis about 10 to 15 degrees. This makes for a much more realistic presentation.
That’s fine. However, most speakers are designed to be pointed directly at the listener. I say that based on having objective measurements for over 200 different speakers.
So we have to remain with our ears on the axis of 2 speakers to enjoy 10k speakers?
..to become slowly a bit deaf by hour and and not moving too much in the room ro lose on axis pleasure..
Thank you but I can wear/fit a pair of Focal headphones most expensive (actually ..cheaper that those 10k dollars floor speakers) and enjoy my music anywhere in the room or outdoor if I want to.
It is pathetic for 10k to be asked to remain on the axis of those speakers to enjoy music in your room these days, isn't it?
Mississippi Queen... the Sam Kinison version?
Could you do the marantz stereo 70s in the near future? I would love to see how it holds up and, as always, keep up the great work, Erin. I appreciate you.
Great review as always. I'd be curious as to how this PS Audio speaker compares to the Børresen X3.
Have not yet heard either, but the OG Børresen 03 is truly End Game from personal experience. A blind FR10/X3 comparison would be interesting me thinks.
@roccobruno8027
Agreed. A 100% Unsighted (Blind) listening test between the FR10, Revel Performa F226Be, and the Børresen X3 using the same signal chain and (capable) amplification would be VERY interesting!
Seems like a fairly competent speaker. I wonder how the vertical and DI looks like, if both are good, this could be EQ'ed, and I'd expect pretty decent results due to the fairly low distortion and well extended FR.
The horizontal directivity is really quite good. But the vertical, as expected with a design like this, has some deviations. It’s rare that anything other than a coaxial driver has very good vertical, so I tend not to worry so much about that personally.
It's also just not that important to our hearing.
@@ErinsAudioCorner It would be cool if you got hold of some 70/80s era EPI / Genesis Speakers. I have the 70s era EPI 100v speakers, with the upgraded "Inverted Dome" tweeters... and it does not matter where or how I place them. The soundstage is Insanely Wide, 3D, and Crystal Clear in Details, without being Harsh.
Initially I was forced to place them under my PC desk... due to space limits of my room, at the time. It didnt impact the sound quality and image, in a detectable way, at all ! Those drivers are absolutely Magical.
When I first heard these things, it was at a friends Slot Car track + Small Vintage Arcade. He was playing some Earth, Wind, and Fire. I swear, I couldnt detect any Drop-Off, until I was beyond like a 15x15 ft area. In fact, there are so Holographic in Projections, that I couldnt FIND the darn things... despite looking for about 10 minutes straight. I eventually had to ask my Friend, what they were... and where the Heck they were!
He walked me to the front of the store. About 1 ft from the floor, sitting on a 1ft wide, and 1ft tall, ledge... very close to the stores massive window glass. They were about 5 to 6 ft apart. One was laying horizontally, having about 3 feet worth of magazines stacked on top of it (he is a packrat). The other, was vertical.. and was partially behind a Sit-Down racing game (Atari's "Race Drivin" arcade machine). Basically, the worst type of setup you might imagine... and yet, the sound was out of this world.
Detailed beyond belief, incredible.. wide.. 3D holographic soundstage, great deep, punchy, and musically accurate bass. No way to tell any separation from the drivers... acting even better than a "Coaxial Single Point Source Driver". In fact, you could blindfold someone... spin them around 20 times.. and they likely wouldnt be able to find the speaks by merely trying to walk towards the sounds. THe speakers basically "Vanish" into the room... and all thats left, is sound that seems to come straight out of thin air, into various places of the room.
EPI was eventually bought by Genesis Physics. The 2 way model was so popular, that Genesis continued to make Similar speakers, based on the same principles and using the same drivers. They have various modified models, however... such as one of them adding a Passive Radiator.
One of the former workers from EPI/Genesis.. has a website, where he sells hand made replacement drivers, as well as does repairs, and custom builds. humanspeaker is the site. It has details about all of the EPI / Genesis models. He even made an Improved version of the famous Inverted Tweeter. Ive not heard / tested any of his parts, so I cant vouch for anything he sells... as all of my drivers are Originals.
Just make sure that if you get a pair of EPI's / Genesis Physics speakers, that you get the ones with the upgraded tweeters, and the original woofers. EPI made a major revisions to the tweeter, fairly early on... which is far more detailed and able. The Good tweeters have a plastic Bezel around them... where as the bad/older tweeters, use a fiberboard backing.
The EPI 8" woofers are also special, in that the designer used heavier gauge wire on the coil windings. He did this, to automatically filter out high frequencies going into the woofers, without needing an additional Crossover component. The thought was that the crossover component itself, could introduce some changes / distortions to the actual incoming sound. I dont know if thats accurate or not... but I can tell you, that I hear things in music that Ive never been able to hear in any other speaker, with them. Especially in complex music, like Disco... where there are so many instruments and vocals, all at the same time. Most speakers distort the sound, so that instrument and vocals become fuzzy and blended together. With my EPI's, everything maintains its own Clarity, and Details, without getting muddied. As such, Ive been able to understand vocalist lyrics, 100% crystal clear... That Ive never formerly been able to understand at all.
Id be curious to know how you compare them against ribbon tweeters. From what Ive understood from many reviews, is that ribbons tend to be very Narrow in projection, as well as very "Directional". Meaning, you have to sit in an exact certain spot, to get a perfect image effect... and a mere few inches in any direction... results in a very different experience. A notable drop in levels. Where as the EPIs.. you can get a near perfect image, almost anywhere in the room. I can only assume that the EPI's might not have as clear of details as the Ribbons... but I really dont know, as Ive only ever heard one ribbon tweeter speaker, and it was a 360 degree bi-pole, that sounded artificial.. due to distortions when bouncing all over the store, that they were in.
Anyway... the EPI / Genesis speakers seem to be a largely unknown to audiophiles... and as such, you can often get them for pretty cheap. I picked mine up re-foamed for $100, which is pretty insane, for what they can do. They probably could complete with (or beat / destroy) modern speakers, that cost well over $10k. All I can say, is that the best local high end speakers that I listened to... that cost a bit over $3k, didnt hold a candle to the EPIs. Its was not even close.
Im not sure if Genesis Physics is the same as the existing Genesis company. I believe they are different... but Ive never researched into it.
@foxgamng76yt24
That data is in Erin's written review on his website. ;)
I’m using the GRS neo 3 planar tweeter in a build and it has the same exact narrow dip at around 7k as well as the peaks around 5k and 12k. Kinda suspect, is that what’s in here? I’ve used the original Neo3 from BG and it was very smooth.
It is a modified version.
@alexw890 Yes, Chris Brunhaven (speaker's designer) replied to other similar comments here regarding the response "anomolies".
That 200 to 500hz range is what makes me love or hate speakers. When done right it really makes low male voices beautiful full and warm!
Love the fact it sets such a steady soundstage, that really is a lovely bonus from speakers!
Best sounstage i’ve ever heard was produced by a speaker brand called Illumnia and the speakers were called Magister MK2.
Really waiting for the Blade Meta review!
Dude, those Blades are no joke.
@@ErinsAudioCorner bet those mid tones are fenomenal with the blade meta.
@@ErinsAudioCorner But they can't be. They have passive crossovers.
Joe Perry uses a Talk Box on Sweet Emotion. Peter Frampton really put that thing on the map
Good review video man...that shirt though!
Great review 👍 🎸👍
The floor bounce null is extremely difficult to treat…who wants treatment on their floor…would Dirac fix that null with their phase/delay magic?
I don’t see how they could because it’s a boundary issue. Maybe with their ART method.
@@ErinsAudioCorner For the people who believe LS50 high passed to multiple subs is a cheat to getting high-end sound…I think the floor bounce null is going to get in their way.
Was Mississippi Queen on 2 Lane Blacktop? Maybe Vanishing Point? 2 great films, if you haven't seen them.
I don't think it was in either one of those films.
These seem pretty cool!! 🎉 great review! Great info! I truly believe you are one the absolute BEST reviewer on here, however and I mean no offense, I kinda wish you had included more visuals and audio examples during the video rather than only one image for most of the video. 🎉 I got into the video most of the way and practically forgot what the speakers look med like.
Great and most informative review on youtube. $10K is for a good looking furniture.
I hate the look but I can tell they tried to guild the lily
@@middleearthltd I don't like the look, either.
Don’t worry, I love em and they fit in with my $30k couches
That spl graph looks a bit rough i expected a flatter response.
Did Erin review the FR5's ? or is that in the queue down the road? Not sure when the 5's became available.
I'm going to get Erin a pair soon and will reach out. This first couple of units we had available went to Stereophile and Hifi News but he's on the list as well.
@@cbrunhaver Sounds great, Chris! I think the FR5's are going to be a lot more accessible for the typical audio enthusiast in terms of price and in terms of the environment that they have access to enjoy them in. I'm anticipating an excellent value proposition. Thanks for the info and good luck to you!👨🏻 Also, I would like to suggest and recommend that anyone interested in the FR5's should definitely consider spending the extra 14% for the pair of FR5 stands the company offers for them..👍👨🏻
I know this is an older speaker but anyway you could check with HSU into sending you a pair CCB-8 to test, also analyzing/thoughts using one as center channel. This of course if you are interested in testing them. I have seen some subjective test of them but no data to back up what they are hearing.
@user-kn8ik7hf1d
Erin has stated that he has tried to contact HSU Research multiple times and received either no response or no interest in sending him anything to review.
The BEST thing that you and others can do is to EMAIL or Call HSU directly and tell them you are interested in purchasing their product(s), but are "on the fence" because you are waiting to see independent objective measurements/data as well as subjective impressions from someone like Erin.
The more people that request this, the more chance he will be willing to send product to Erin.
Thanks for the review Erin - even though it's for speakers I'll never be able to afford. Sometimes it's fun to see how the top 2% live... When you mentioned the footsteps going from right to left on Thriller, I went to my FLAC tunes to check it out. I got a bit frustrated when it wasn't present on the track on "The Essential" CD. But I did find it on the 1982 CD and the 25th Anniversary release. (Whew!) I too like it when stereo effects are incorporated into recordings and when I see a Band live. It just adds to the performance. I watch every one of your reviews, because you have real data. Good Luck with the channel. PS - Any chance of getting HSU's CCB-8 done soon?
I just love the "sound effects" like in the Aerosmith song, keeps it down to earth and unpretentious. Love it.
Hi Erin, will you have a chance to test the upcoming PS Audio FR5s also? Would be really cool
Erin, I am having a hard time finding information on this. In your opinion what makes bass sound "thick". I have heard systems and subwoofers from high to low. Revel Salon 2's with no subs, revel bookshelves paired with a arendal sealed subwoofer, and revel m106s paired with a facebook find 15 year old paradigm subwoofer. My favorite sounding bass somehow comes from the cheap paradigm subwoofer, it feels full and thick where the bass coming out of the more expensive systems just seems to be lacking texture and thin. Sure its punchy, snappy, but it just doesnt sound full. What paramaters of a subwoofer should I be looking for when shopping to find something that I would like. Obviously low time domain and low distortion arnt what makes me like a sub.
Hey Erin. I'm fairly new to your videos. You seem to be able to explain tech better than any I have seen. I'm not tech savvy but open to learning. I have Magnepan LRS+ in my living room and like them except for the height of sound. Outside of bigger Maggies woulf the Kef Blade 2 be good at filling a room with width and height? Thanks for any comments.
Neither the inroom nor direct measured response looks very linear. Is this due the Ribbon driver technology?
It is hard to make wideband planar magnetic drivers ruler flat but, done well, they have a lot of benefits like clean decay, low IMD, good dynamics and wide horizontal coverage.
Erin, what generally causes a speaker to have a warmer or cooler presentation? Is it simply a result of on-axis response or do other factors such as resonance and distortion play a part? Does driver cone material impact the tonal characteristic as well? A while back, I demoed a pair of Paradigm Founder 100Fs next to a comparable Sonus Faber model. While they sounded more alike than different, my biggest takeaway was the Paradigms had a cooler/more clinical presentation.
I tend to find 'warmth' in speakers that might have a little bit of 1-2khz removed, maybe a slight decrease in upper HF (>10kHz). This particular speaker having that dip ~600-900Hz and the mild dip ~1.5kHz is why I described this as more of a 'warm' sound. Obviously your definition may vary.
Gotcha. That may help explain why the Paradigms had less warmth since the measurements I’ve seen show a rise in frequency response starting around 1.5 kHz.
@T8424 FYI, a lot of Sonus Faber models are purposely "voiced" with a shallow recess between 3k-4k combined with a slightly elevated response above 10kHz. This might be perceived as "warm but with plenty of detail & air". I'm not as familiar with the Paradigms.
@@bbfoto7248I have very limited experience with both brands and I don’t recall liking one significantly more than the other. The salesman did express his preference toward Sonus Faber though.
@@T8424 In general, the Sonus faber "house sound" is "sweet & lush", for lack of better subjective terms, LOL. But even some of their different lines have a different sound signature.
A lot of people like their "house sound". But it's really difficult to learn what YOU really prefer without having all of these different speakers to A/B side-by-side and directly compare.
While these particular "voicings" may sound pleasing overall, with certain vocals or instruments they may either hide/mask or exaggerate details.
And as Erin always states, there is no perfect speaker, and each one has tradeoffs (Hoffman's Iron Law, etc.). Your room, the speaker placement & aiming, and the distance to the listening position will all have an impact on the final result.
This is one reason the Estimated In-Room Response can be useful. But you'll need to correlate that with the variables above.
That was very helpful. I got a bud looking at the FR 10. Will turn him on to yer review. Wuf. 🐻
Good review . Honest. I love a wide soundstage and bass is important to me. They are working on a sub.
Again , really good review , you are hitting your stride man.
I guess that's the house sound they want to establish.
On the Klippel they have a slight bass shelf. But then the woofers are much closer to the floor than normal. So perhaps they will be somewhat even in normal positioning?
It’s not uncommon for this to be the case when speakers are designed to be placed closer to a wall. Klipsch, KEF, etc do this with some of their models.
I think after room gain you could get closer to flat if your room is the right size to give enough gain for the lower frequencies. I know my Kef R7s (Somewhat similar where they have a extended bass shelf) in my semi small room shocked me with how much bass they had even down to 30Hz and a bit below.
I hate that the looks of a speaker would influence my decision, but the rounded bottom of these makes them look like they are upside down to me, and about to fall over. I just could never get over that if I owned these. I realize that is completely subjective and most people probably love the way they look. I wish they would have just made the bottoms square.
I get it, but to me, it is refreshing to see something different than your typical rectangle. ;) I also like that fact that they have a Satin finish instead of Gloss.
I'm still a fan of a natural dark walnut wood grain cabinets with a matte or satin finish, but that would be really difficult to do with all of the curved and rounded-over edges of these speakers.
Great Channel. Can you review the new FR5?
Hopefully soon-ish.
They should have sent them to you before they released them! You don't mention higher performing speakers in this price range?
May you remain unsued
Great review
I believe that Vandersteen's Trio speakers cost approximately the same as the FR10 speakers.
Have you auditioned the Trio speakers? If yes, how do they compare to the FR10 speakers?
Erin has the Treo review on his website now if you want to compare. I believe that he chose not to do a video on them.
@@cbrunhaver Thanks for letting me know about Erin's Treo review.
However, I found virtually no value in his Treo review.
His review was 98% charts / specifications. But if I wanted to know how the speakers sound, his review gave me basically nothing that helps.
-- Do the speakers have good dynamics?
-- Are the speakers transparent?
-- Do the speakers disappear?
-- Do the speakers throw a wide soundstage?
-- Are the speakers musical?
-- Do the speakers have listening fatigue? To what degree?
-- Do the speakers give you a realistic "you are there" listening experience?
-- Do the speakers struggle with deep bass, or does it sound effortless, tight, and detailed?
-- Would Erin be happy if he had to live with these speakers?
If I had a robot that had to listen to these speakers, then Erin's review would be helpful. But I can't see how a human can reap any useful help from his review.
@@NoEgg4u well, Erin’s reviews are of a less subjective nature.
From the measurements you can see it’s transparent but lacking body and low midrange somewhat.
They also seem to be very limited in macro dynamics because of very high distortion /compression in the lower midrange (owing to the first order crossover of the small midrange, likely)
This isn’t really an area where fatigue happens (that has more to do with upper midrange and treble which are very good on these.
I’m sure you could private message him for more feedback.
If you know what I mean 🎶
I'm a PS Audio fan. Very good presentation. I subscribed!
Classy design
These are really good a value.
$10k for a pair of small speakers like these can never be considered having a good value.
@@gurratell7326 why not? Sounds like they are well worth it.
@@gurratell7326 why not?
@@gurratell7326maybe to you
@@gurratell7326 I wouldn't say "never" as the perceived "value" of anything is relative and interpreted differently by each individual based on multiple factors.
Erin, how do these sound 5-6ft away from listener position?
Listen them 2 days ago… not bad… but I had put a grill in front… the drivers look so small in that format…. Weird…
Well, the narrow aperture of the midrange and tweeter and the fact that they are equal in width contributes to the wide and rather even directivity.
Focal Kanta 2 would make a very relevant comparison to the FR10
I was hoping this would be a great speaker….i watch all of Paul’s videos lol
Ha, I use Sweet Emotion as a reference song too!!
I like Paul but some of the stuff that comes out on his CZcams videos. I just pretend he is just "playing the sales game" and giving people what they want to hear.
Can't deny these are pretty speakers though!
Paul and the PS Audio speaker designer are two different people. ;)
Seems good.
The best intro ever.. =) Im not sure about that shirt .. I like the one in the thumbnail more.
They just released the FR5 - bookshelf ... any plans?
I like these in person. They never seem to sound bad at all.
Will you be at the Montreal Show next week? We will have this model there playing.
Ha ha!
I’ve asked about reviewing those. I’m really quite curious if they keep the same radiation pattern that these towers do.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Yes, that will be interesting to see (and hear) since it's a 2-way without the dedicated midrange, and Chris stated that he tried to eek out a bit more low-end extension from the FR5.
Sure do look cool.
Sounds like a pair of speakers designed and engineered to load the room correctly. Minimising the need for room treatment. Too many people use room treatment, DSP and EQ to correct a speakers inadequacies!
One word. Shahinian acoustics!!!!
Dont you think those dips in sound could be from the sound source
Could you get better results for the same money from a good quality bookshelf speaker and some subs?
I’m sure you could. My biggest issue would be finding one that has the horizontal dispersion that I liked from these. Even some of the better revel offerings have diffraction issues in the upper midrange/lower treble. And speakers that tend to not have this are horns or coaxials which don’t have as broad radiation.
I appreciate your style of review.
They do seem nice.
Am I wrong to expect more value from these?
I have a hard time calling anything a true “value”. Especially when you have a speaker that isn’t a standard box. Because at some point you’re paying for the look and that’s not an objective component.
Fair point.@@ErinsAudioCorner
@@avnut5517
I posted this in another similar comment here, so it's a "Copy & Paste" but still relevant:
The price might seem steep, but for what you are getting I assure you it is not.
As someone with extensive woodworking/cabinetmaking experience, if I were commissioned to build and finish just the cabinets/enclosures for these to the level of quality that PS Audio has, I would quote my customer in the neighborhood of $4000-$5000, and potentially more depending on materials costs at the time. Otherwise it wouldn't be worth my time.
The diversion from a simple rectangular box enclosure/cabinet to a very unique curved profile with round-over edges everywhere makes these exponentially more difficult and time consuming to construct. Top that off with a high-quality finish. And contrary to popular belief, it is not easy to achieve a perfectly smooth and uniform satin finish.
And then there are the added custom-machined aluminum bases and other parts. Not cheap!
Wrap that up with very high quality custom/proprietary drivers (and the passive radiators add quite a bit more to the cost compared to using a simple port tube), plus well-designed, good quality crossovers that use high-voltage capable air-core inductors, polypropylene metalized-film capacitors, and wire-wound resistors in order to maintain the overall stability and performance of the speakers at all listening levels, and you're looking at a very large chunk of cash!
The speaker designer also primarily employs 4th Order 24dB/octave filters (pretty much a necessity for the planar drivers), so that increases the parts count and cost of the crossovers as well.
FINALLY, you need to price them for the retail consumer market so that you actually make a PROFIT and can continue to Stay In Business after having to pay ALL of your multitudes of business/operating expenditures, which most people GROSSLY UNDERESTIMATE!
You ain't gonna get good quality Champagne on a Beer Budget!
I understand that a large majority of HiFi/audio enthusiasts will not be able to afford these, but IMHO they are not overpriced. But if they meet all of someone's personal requirements as to the quality of sound, appropriate size for their room, and cosmetic aesthetics/industrial design with good WAF and no other loudspeaker they've considered "checks" ALL of those boxes, then they might be considered a very good value.
well Erin, that Fr10 sounds/looks reasonable😉.. now the real question is ..what does the $30,000 speaker afford you in comparison?
Also, at speakers in the price range of the fr-10, it would have helped to compare to it other speakers in that $10k price range, but that would be asking alot; it wouldn't be fair my looking at it from a $2000 /pair price mentality.
As the designer for the PS speakers, I can give you some insight into the speaker lineup. When reproducing bass frequencies at a given loudness, the woofer displacement required quadruples for every octave you go down (e.g. going from 40 Hz to 20 Hz). Most of the difference between the three current models comes down to dynamics (higher power handling, lower distortion) and greater deep bass extension/output. The larger models do you an improved midrange driver with smoother response, lower distortion and higher output as well. There are other differences too, but this is the bulk of it.
@@cbrunhaverHello Chris!
I am a retired RF engineer, and an amateur musician that started out to be an AF engineer, and as such I would've expected that (your spot on candid response), and I really do surely appreciate you taking the time here. My comments were more geared towards Erin and his casual viewers.. I was anticipating that most people would want to know how it compares to other $10k speaker pairs, and ultimately, a review and comparison of how the FR30s measure up against the FR10's, although I wholeheartedly agree with what you were saying because that IS what makes the most sense to me based on my experience and technical background, even though I've never actually designed speakers.
Thank you so much for your response Chris.. it demonstrates that you truly care about speaker technology, your contribution in crafting the products within it, and offering insight into it all for the layman. Have a great day, and keep up the great work! 👍
@@shipsahoy1793 thanks! I think Erin is offering a great resource for people to learn about speakers on a somewhat deeper level and I’m happy to chime in on some of the engineering trade offs and decisions
That's cool that Paul sent you those!
Good review, measurements are a little odd but probably sounds pretty nice for a small speaker.
It's a big speaker.
@@CC-xu2yz all things are relative….
You forgot to put in the vertical disperson graph, and this is the achilles heel of such long drivers. I'd bet the soundstage height is abyssmal. I've done some experiement with way shorter ribbon drivers than drivers used here and those drivers are insanly directional heightwise. Otherwise loved the vid!
Check the pinned comment. It’s on my site.
erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/ps_audio_aspen_fr10/