I had a very similar experience with a customer. We were installing a new furnace and a/c and the customer was in ourback pocket all day talking and pestering us. As we were finishing up he comes from out of the blue and tells us that he wanted the whole unit moved like 4" to the right even though the new was in the same place as the old. We ultimately moved it but it cost most of the next day and they turned out to be the customer that no matter what you did it was never enough. They turned out to be the only customers that we actually told them never to call us again.
Haha those customers are always a learning curve especially regarding your own boundaries / how much BS you'll put up with. Actually teaches us a lot..in its own skewed kinda way lol
It sure does. I was doing basically the very same thing as your 20 minute rule. I did it as a way to diffuse calls that were feeling tense. I learned that I could almost always find something that I had in common with the customer. Common ground goes a long way to building a good relationship with the customer. Love your videos!
Well dont take me wrong but some times, they think same as you..they pretend be your friend then. Their expect to have a hold discont at and of the job.., so what I do is I'm going to pull inspection..system should be a up code and up manufactures recommendations...Done.
LOL!!! As a Special Inspector seen both sides of the disputes. Seen contractors fail to meet the contract specifications and Owners interfere and try to change things to late in the middle of the job, in both private and government work. Your one of the few that does a pretty good job in your broadcasts as a contractor. Thank you, and keep up the good work in my observations.
@@Dirtmonkey do ya think it would be possible, to use some type, of mortar or concrete mix, to repair, those chips or do they make, something, for retaining walls, to repair facial chips, in the wall??🤔, I guess, I could Google it.🤔🤣✌️
Sadly, being in the excavation business for 27 years I have had a few bad customers. The most memorable was a satisfied customer that just didn't want to make the last payment. They admittedly had no problem with the work, they just didn't want to pay the balance. So a few days after a failed attempt to collect I did something that put me in the back of a sheriff's car. We went back to the job with the smooth face bucket on the excavator and 2 dump trucks. I was able to reclaim the rubble for about 3/4 of the total length of the driveway. The driveway install was the last part of the many things we did at this customers home. That driveway cost me labor hours to put down, labor hours to remove, and a few hours in county lock up. In the end it was very satisfying to me. Also in this small town it made more people aware that didn't already know me, don't f#(k with me. I'm proud to have a solid reputation in the community, both for my business and position in local government. But 12 years later people still talk about this in my sleepy little town lol!
It wasn't a recently fired senior politicin was it? He made that a normal business practice, even making NO payments, telling those he owed to "sue me" for the money, knowing full well it'd often cost more than the debt and, even if they did go ahead, they wouldn't see a result for years. He put a lot of smaller businesses out of business, and in at least one instance the lawyers that WON a case for him had to sue for payment.
@@gordowg1wg145 No, he wasn’t. Just a typical @$$h0!£. The day after he refused to pay I talked to his sister that happens to live next door to me. She said he will never pay, I will be added to the bottom of a long list of people that have judgements against him. Apparently every job he has ever held was off the books. I wish she had said something before I even started his job. On the following day I got my revenge. Although it created a buzz on the town Planning Board I serve on, the revenge was well worth it. I wasn’t removed from the board, but I would have been fine with it either way. It is a non paying position and the revenge would have been worth it. As far as I am concerned I provided a public service to everyone he’s ever screwed.
@@howlandexcavating Is the revenge something I'd read on Reddit? Regardless, if it was "well worth it" I would hope others who were similarly ripped off made some sort of "well done" comment to you? Hopefully, if he's like that, he's going to have defaults against people he really doesn't want to mess with, like the bank or local authorities, who can force a house sale to recover outstanding debts. Heck, if he was working "off the books" he would be MOST unlikely to have been paying his income taxes, so the IRS could REALLY f*ck him up with back-taxes, penalties and accrued interest. One would hope at least one of his creditors gave them a call.
@@gordowg1wg145 the revenge was removing the 12” thick layer of rubble I installed in his driveway. I was able to remove 3/4 the length of his driveway starting at his house. Then the sheriffs showed up and the rest was history.
@@howlandexcavating 😎👍😊 IMO, that's perfectly fair, leave the percentage that he paid for with his deposit and take the rest - doesn't cover the labour time, but he would have what he paid for... Going to depend on the circumstances, but perhaps those reading may start at the road, removing a couple of feet, first so he won't have the access to the driveway remains to park his car until it's filled in if the police turn up - and if word about his refusal to pay 'somehow' spreads through the other business in the area, he may have problems sorting that out.
Been working since I was old enough to hold a shovel and been out on my old for 5 years I do concrete paving and excavating demolition clearing you’ll never get a project completely 100%. You can only keep improving and tighten up here and there but still will never get 100%. My issue is other contractors and clients who want the cheap price with absolute perfection in a imperfect world. I always want the client happy in the end just have a few that will avoid you and complain at the end.
8 yrs lawn mts I would normally bill at the end of each month so I had to trust them to pay or I'd be out a month plus the couple weeks grace period. Had a realtor literally cry trying to get out of paying. He was Iranian. They are shrewd. I already gave him a great deal so I wouldn't budge Then I had 1 guy stiff me on his home account & business account. He was stiffing all his vendors too. Offered to settle it man to man after 5 months. He wrote me a check then stopped payment. Took him to small claims & won. Other than that everyone paid no problems no questions. I tried to do a a1 job everytime . Threw in little freebies like 1 free fertilizing per year. Loved it! Gas prices makes me happy I'm not still in it
Very good information everyone should be aware of, when working with customers. I have been very Fortinet that most of my customers have been available for me to talk with and ask their opinion on the project progression. Great content and extremally worthwhile information thanks Stanley!
Did plumbing service work for 29 years. Got real smart showing customers chips, tears, burns , or scratches on floors or countertops before starting a job. Used towels, drops, or cardboard to cover their stuff, but still had the shysters try to get freebies (which sometimes the boss caved in to the whining) for damage that was not either me or a helpers fault. It's sad that there are people like that, and professional contractors/service people have to grin and bear it occasionally. Now days your cell phone or camera is a great way to document before, during, and after. Great videos, great looking and professionally done projects! This plumbing guy has learned a lot from your vids...Thanks!
Y'all do a good job, Stanley! I enjoy your blogs and Victory Concrete in Wisconsin, though I'm toiling here in the crappy, yearly, Summer heat here in DFW. Some cool info and knowledge to take away when dealing with contractors. I always treat contractors as equals and gauge them on their ability to communicate and be open to my needs and at times, minor concerns. Hard work and I for one appreciate it what you guys put into it.
I have only done about a dozen walls when I ran a garden center in BC, all engineered, high end repeat multiple project customers. I made a point of pointing out the manufacturing defects in the blocks to clients before hand and informing them they could pay more for the extra handling ( inevitable) if they wanted a no blem wall but also told them it was pointless because they would exfoliate with weathering anyway.
@@Dirtmonkey Yup, upfront so there are no crossed wires, Sad your lead couldn't go eyeballs to eyeballs with that wall owner before that huge pain in everyones ass.
@@flightographist and that is close enough! 😂 could’ve been Pender Island too… FB has been taunting me with “8 years ago” patio build pictures of my last house… just a few more years and I can start on my landscaping and retaining walls here on Saturna. 🇨🇦 thinking about stepping up my game too for this one into more decorative finishes, there is an awesome mason retired here.
This is a small one, I just did some repair and maintenance on a commercial mower for a customer who's always VERY finicky. Before I started I said "just to reiterate, [said back what they said they wanted done], anything else we'll have to revisit with diagnosis another time right?" They said YUP and I did the work. This is at their house BTW. Parts and tools brought on site so they didn't have to leave home or have it hauled. After, they checked the mower and something they didn't tell me about wasn't fixed... "why isn't this fixed?" You didn't tell me about it. "Ok but I wanted this fixed too. What am I paying you for?" You're paying me for the work you asked for and now you'll be paying someone else for future work. Wasn't the 1st time with them "not understanding" what had been talked about before a job started but it was the last time!
Another awesome video and how it should be done with dealing with customers. I know your job with dealing with customers is hair pulling, and there are alot of dishonest people out there. I'm glad you have the skills and brains to discover the truth and facts. Great job. Keep up the great work. Keep safe
being a small time landlord and being neighbors with my tenants has led to me never having to evict anyone. when they have gotten behind they know i work same as they do for a living and if they don't pay, it comes out of my blue collar paycheck. i ask them to leave and they leave. this 20 minute rule is for sure a thing.
Stan, you and your whole crew have tons of integrity, but in this day and age, be careful, many consumers and contractors don't. It's becoming scary, how many people just have no morals, boundaries or care for anyone but themselves. We define these people as sociopathic. Only getting what they want, no matter what they have to do to get it. Cudos to your company! As we go in to bad economic downturn, only great companies like yours, are going to survive. You can take this to the bank! Great video Stan!
I love that you use these videos to teach others, it inspires me to do the same. There are some people that look upon service folk as Beneath them. IMHO, they tend to not like to get their hands dirty.
One more comment. Doesn't it seem like it's usually the really rich people that try not to pay? I have done several different types of work, but mostly landscape, hardscape, and irrigation. More than once, we had to go back to a job site and reclaim all of our materials. Luckily my boss was a solid guy, and the law always took his side. He was well connected because he is just a great guy, and everyone likes him. He is also a beast, so not scared of anybody. We even pulled up a big shot lawyers fence in broad daylight, ripped everything out of the ground and left the place destroyed. But hey, we gave the guy more than a year to pay. The county declined to prosecute. Lol
That may be true- but go to a restaurant and it is often the lowest grade people who complain the most about minor things with service, food, or anything else. That is the only time they are in a "power position" in their lives, so they tend to abuse the wait staff the worst.
Had a customer stop my work about half way done. They wanted all (20) of their overgrown burning bushes cut down to 5 feet, which I started to do. The look on her face was priceless when she looked out the window at her leafless BBs. She came out screaming, STOP,STOP!!! I said. don’t you remember our conversation yesterday about what they were going to look like??? I specifically said that there would be little to no leaves on a hard pruned BB. It was even spelled out on the contract. I trimmed the rest and they honored the bill. Like you said Stan, it’s hard for some people to visualize the finished bush/wall, whatever. This was three years ago. I drove by the job site a couple weeks ago and the “hacked” bushes are really nice looking now!!😃😃. The couple are probably wishing that I had done all of them. Oh well. Great pay day 🌳. Thanks for all you do DM!!!
hahaha, reminds me of my student days. Earning some money doing garden work for a woman and she told me she had some shrubs that had white flowers, that she liked, and to leave those, but pull out the rest - so that's what I was doing when she came out yelling. Turned out her shrubs with the 'white flowers' hadn't come into bloom yet, and it was the shrubs that had early blooming white flowers she wanted pulled out...
Really enjoyed this I’ve seen many shows over here in the uk on so called cowboy contractors but have often wondered why I haven’t seen many on cowboy customers, in the world we live in now so many people are looking for ways to get money off not many seem to have any integrity any more, well done guys for flagging this up!!!!
I hate customers like that. I try like hell yo talk to customers n show them progress as the job goes for the exact reasons you stated. Great video n glad you make ppl aware of how jobs can go
People be so much fun. Worked with alot of builders 👷♂️ over the years. If I miss something I 'm the one who did it not them.Only had one bad one. Nails not put in all the way on shingles. Was a year of come and see what was wrong.Well it pays to keep your cool and not be a dope. The contractor was just super behind. He came,I thanked him for coming and he fixed it right.I would have him back. Good video about working with people. Thanks 😊.
I love the natural wood doors and door frames and stairway banisters and the natural wood accents everywhere in your house it looks amazing and gives it a more homey/Cottage feel to it. Very cool
Great discussion! This is a must and it's great you welcome feedback. Lack of communication leads to most of our societies problems (peoples perspectives of each other's position is almost impossible to understand). Thx
I am a retired tile contractor. If the customer complained about all of the previous work they had done. I would ask them how their issues were resolved and if they were satisfied. At that point you know if you want to work on their project.
the owner of the company always makes the final decision on everything not your foreman. the foreman doesn't lose any money if the wrong decision is made he still gets paid the owner loses the money.
I'm a flooring contractor out of greater KC and now a firm believer in 20 min rule . I had let 2 finished jobs go unpaid with a new builder I took on thinking we would just pull all the jobs on one check and when I was finished with the 3rd job and went to get paid I couldn't find him anywhere and that's been 5 yrs ago and I'm out 5 grand and still had to pay help .
The bad customers, in my experience, have all waited til the last second on finishing the project, and they come with their lies to try not to pay. The entire project they continually complement everything, until it about to be done and they have to pay. But again, we have contracts, and take pictures or videos daily. So they are still up against the wall of contractural law and will regret lying and trying to steal money for the work that was performed.
Absolutely love this man's videos. Btw, I have it stated in my warrant clause attached to the contract that "chips" are a part of the general make up and manufacturing procedure of segmental retaining wall block and will not be covered under warranty unless they fall under "unacceptable compliance per the manufacturer's assessment of "within spec". Please see manufacturer's specification details or their representative for interpretation of "within spec" I also have an entire paragraph devoted to no warranty vulnerability to efflorescence (aka:eflo) and block/paver color variations..
Hey Stan. This week has been a blast. I love my new job. Monday through Wednesday I was mowing on brand new mowers then yesterday and today I was cutting down a massive elm tree for one of our schools. I got to run the wood chipper (them things are loud and imitating) I also got to drive one of the case wheel loader and most of the city’s one ton dump truck pickups. Loved the wheel loader and the trucks. I got one hell of a farmers tan going lol. Got to go to my girlfriends grad party tonight which should be interesting. (Yes I did get her a gift). Have a great weekend Stan!
Dirt Monkey, I've been watching dozens of your videos and you have such a good approach to the jobs, customer relations, and business management. Love learning from these videos. Wish I could hire you for my new home project this summer!
Im sure most customers are decent people, but over years, you will encounter bad apples. Its inevitable. Its all in how you deal with it in my opinion! Keep up the great work! I hope you have a great weekend!
There used to be a site called "clients from hell" with similar horror stories. It was mostly about graphic designers, but people tried to pull the same kind of crap. Mission creep, endless revisions, happy until the last second for a discount. Gotta watch out for these folks no matter what ya do!
A good mate was pestered by one his tenants to put air conditioning in her apartment bedroom. My mate was reluctant, but as it was a long term tenant in good standing, he had a split system installed at huge cost (because of location in a multi-storey apartment bldg). A week later the tenant calls and says “it’s too cold, take it out again”!
Those little chips aren't enough to worry about. The one big chip you pointed out on the first wall, if there was a bunch of those, would be a legitimate complaint. If someone is bitching about the little ones, I would say they're just looking for something to complain about in order to try to get a discount.
Or they're a virgo, my parents, boss and son are like that drives me crazy. My mom was talking to the rug installer about nothing and didn't tell him what she wanted , I was putting the baby down for a nap. Just happened to not be downstairs. So then I had to change the doorway for her but she's complaining about the staples. I said to her I'm not buying a rug stapler for 30 staples your gonna have to live with it. Learn when you hire someone to communicate about what you want if it's not cut and dried.
There are “some” people who are wired to automatically look for those flaws and defects after a job or project is complete. I know because I am married to one. She is a pain in the ass about it. Our Versa Lok retaining wall has about 6 small chips in it. She immediately pointed em out when she got home. It is what it is I told her, that crew would not be coming back to take down and re lay the blocks, and there was no way in hell I was going to do it. I said if she wanted to help I would give it a go (I knew she would not). Her whole side of a family I believe get off on looking for flaws, like they get an award for locating em! I just brush it off and ignore her when I do stuff around the house now. Some customers you never can please
I don't work in landscaping, but that method you're talking about is nearly identical to what I do in the software industry. We demo and talk with our end users as frequently as possible. That way we can get their input and make shifts as soon as possible if necessary (also nice to get the thumbs up that things are good too).
Great video as usual, I maintain about 86 mowing accounts. I'm not the owner but everyone of my customers knows my name and I know there's and I speak with them on a regular basis!!! We like to call it " lip service " lol. Again great video
I am always interested at the 'mowing' business model. 86 accounts, at that number you must really need to be good at logistics, repairs, and managing your workers. What does an average mowing account pay every month in the industry? I pay my homeyard guy 190 a month in San Antonio and he is in and outin 30 minutes. Very interesting stuff, stay safe!
Love your work and videos. For 20 years I had a janitorial company here in Southern California. Obviously noting like you do but the bottom line issue is customers and in my case getting them to pay for a job well done. Had a customer call to say they needed a very quick construction cleanup of a penthouse and adjacent condos behind an ocean view home. Open house in a few days. I took a crew in and almost worked 24 hour days to complete before open house and we were successful to the satisfaction of the customer. I submitted my bill which was as I had bid, no remuneration. I sent another, no response so then I visited the ocean front residence with no response. As this is an area of beautiful homes, I then parked in front of their home with a big sign on my vehicle " Resident Does Not Pay For Work Performed". Within 60 minutes I got a call from the real estate firm handling the open house and I was paid in full! A 2nd case was a contractor that hired me to do a construction cleanup, again at the last minute. Took a crew in and again we had it cleaned thoroughly before the deadline. Several attempts to get paid, then finally I parked in front of their office with a similar sign on the public street and soon I got called and was immediately paid. In both cases, of course there was the option of small claims court or other legal remedies but I knew I would never deal with either party again, so why not try another remedy? Good luck to all hardworking contractors out there!
Only two I can think of off hand is when I first started my business a lady asked me to wash her windows. I showed up with my supplies start cleaning. She stops me tells me she wants me to use her supplies because,”Windex streaks too much.” I obliged. Cleaned her windows gave her the invoice she didn’t pay me because they looked dirty and too streaky. The other I gave a price to do leaves and told them specifically that there’s a haul away/disposal fee. They said how much if you don’t because we dump them in the swamp across the street. Everyone does. I picked them up and dumped them and the owner of the “swamp” got in my face and said to pick them up and take them away or we’ll have a big problem. The customer got a discounted price and I almost got a trespassing ticket from the sheriff because they didn’t want to pay the extra amount.
I recently had a slab poured for a small 30' x 20' shop and the first day I met the guy who ran the small company doing the work he almost felt like an old friend. I spent 25+ years fitting and welding pipe so I know what its like to have someone bird dogging you while you work. So I told this guy to just do the job and I wouldnt be hanging around nitpicking everything they did but if he did need me just give me a call. He and his guys did a quick, accurate, level and square slab for me, they also shoved some brush and other natural growth back making it much easier to get around the area.
A year ago had a 20' X 20' slab with a stem wall "placed" for a small garage. The concrete fellow came over and talked for the 20 minutes, had a good idea of what I was talking about, kept communications open through text messaging, he took photos as he went, I felt he wasn't charging enough for his time (the prices of the material I knew, a neighbor was the supplier of the concrete)... when he was completedafter the placing of the concrete I gave him the final payment, plus $100 for each of th eworkers on the job. It was his business and his choice as to what he did with the money. The next year I needed some more concrete work done and experienced the same excellent service. If I need more in the future I will not hesitate to call this fellow, and recommend him to my neighbors. Having a neighbor in the concrete business did help, he was checking the concrete mix coming off his truck, the concrete guy didn't know this was a neighbor of mine and was surprised to see him at the job site when the concrete was delivered. I believe this hard working concrete man provides this type of service for everyone he does business with.
Stan, great content as always and I did a stone walkway which was around 25 years old since first installed and I tried to get the home owner to picket the grout color that looks as close to the original as possible which you know is impossible to match perfectly. I got as close as possible but it did not take long before I knew what was happening. The home owner was a retired contractor who knows how to get around.end result since I was fairly new I tried to talk to the person but no matter what I said or showed the person was adamantly matter of fact With his attitude about the grout and how it is not acceptable to him. I finally becoming frustrated with the home owner that I said, "look my company is built on Character, Integrity and workmanship, which as far as I am concerned all goes hand in hand and without you are nothing. My Values (self, business) are Worth more and means more to me than what this job could ever pay; and if you are that dissatisfied than keep your money - you owe me nothing. Which the home owner said - anybody can tell you are a man of integrity - whichI said back to the home owner - then, why don't you pay me/ then the home owner had the nerve to ask me to do more work. LOL
The 20 minute rule is also important for before you bid the job. I have bid jobs WAY high and asked for way more money down before starting after getting a bad vibe from the potential customer. I was thankful when I did not got some of those jobs.
Kitchen and bath cabinets sometimes I always ask my customers to inspect and sign off on cabinets since 2013.. I asked a customer to look at all the cabinets after one of my guys unboxed all of them approximately 38 cabinets and the customer said that they didn’t have time that they’re sure that the cabinets are what they looked at and ordered I was just the installer so after I installed their hickory cabinets they waited until all the cabinets were up and said that those were not hickory cabinets and they were not the same wood pattern as the one they looked at at the kitchen store I told them Hickory has all kinds of patterns in them and not two cabinets are the same… they wanted me to take them all out until they talk to the kitchen shop where they purchased them from and found out what I was telling them was the absolute truth
I had a new customer for mowing a few years back. They gave us a verbal approval but due to people being scummy in the past I require a written approval (i.e. signed paper or an email or text that has the job description and price with them replying they accept please begin.) So we were still waiting for this client to send the written authorization the day we were supposed to start servicing their property. since I didn't have it we didn't go. the next day I got a text from this person saying how they are not happy at all.they said we blew clippings everywhere on walks the driveway deck cars it was a huge mess we hit the house a few times ripped up the yard etc. I told them we never went there because they didn't approve the work in writing. still have not heard back🤔.
I've been in the same position with walls! Here's my advice. Like stans points, they are manufacturing faults, simple as that. Yes big chips are no bueno...but if they want them replaced they pay for the time to go get the new material, also the overall project scope's square face feet goes up accordingly, and they have to pay for the time and material for reconstruction...this usually gets them quiet again....also! my ace in the hole is astonishingly good at knocking off scrap corners and then using your favorite adhesive, glue um right in that seam! The karens will never know!
I've had really good clients this year and last year. But 2 years ago, I had a sub-contractor hit the ease trough on on a project we we're completing. I immediately went to the client to break down the process(this is back when I didn't have well written contracts yet) and I talked to a another contractor to come and fix it. They ended up charging me for the whole house's ease tough after they brought their own guy, and replaced it before they let me fix it myself. Not a good situation. They deducted off my quote for the amount they spent, which was about 4 times as much as the one I had lined up. I learned that deposits, client profiling, and more importantly the terms and conditions are really important. I write in that I have the first right to fix what I've done wrong, and replace/fix anything that's broken.
I'm only 3 minutes into this video and I already have to say I get it. I do flooring for a very high end company.. 90% of our customers are legit but some of our customers are crazy. What I do is craftsmanship. But if they can get a freebie they will... My goal is to never have call backs.... And I do beyond the 20 minute rule... If you let people know that you actually care usually they back off... But every now and then you have the one that will absolutely milk anything for a discount or free job
Hard to bring it up right away if they need time to look for any tiny imperfections to try to use to their advantage. Karen’s go deep when they get desperate.
I've had my share of clients that tried to nit pick and not pay. Fortunately my tree work and excavation work generally doesn't have a lot of material expenses so the few times I've gotten stung anymore more or less is just lost time, still don't like it but easier to let it go. I'm a person who loves what I do and enjoys interaction with clients about the project to the point I've had people say I just want you to do the work because I like you. Once that relationship is built the job is always fun and a client for life, sometimes friends for life. People like that know people like that and want you to work for them as well. On the other hand when your gut doesn't like something and you can't put your finger on why graciously decline the project. Never be afraid to walk away at any point but always exhaust your reasonable options to finish the job.
As a specifier for lighting fixtures, if I saw a product that continues to piss off clients with a visual esthetic issue, I would never specify the product again until they fixed the issue. I had issues on jobs where lighting products started to bend due to heat, and while the manufacturer says it is within specified limits, the cost rolls downhill; clients will argue the defect is not the lighting they were promised (rightfully so), the contractor will either change it (cost hours) or argue they installed it right (kicks back to the client/specifier). So as a specifier/designer, products have to excel in function AND form. And getting a mock-up installed or a photos of previous projects is very important. If these blocks are the most inexpensive blocks produced and clients love the cost, it should be mentioned to them that they have corners that chip, and are designed to have those happen. Then let them decide during planning if they want to switch materials, and of course get them some samples! As a homeowner I think those chips look mechanical and purposeful even though it sounds like the chips happen outside the manufacturing process (and adds some real material identity to the block). But having the owner come out during lunchtime like was mentioned is kind of a way that resembles that communication mentioned above. Related to the 20min rule, as a client myself I had a house renovation that resulted in an increase in the budget by 60k. And alot of it could have been tackled had the 20 min rule included updated pricing for things like covid induced supply issues, potential cost savings to reach the original budget number, reducing scope of the project (we had a garage converted to a master bedroom/bath/closet/laundry room), etc. Now we paid the cost (had to borrow more than we wanted to front), but towards the middle of the project we raised all sorts of hell to get our contractor to understand budgets can flex with emergency issues, but not the original scope of work and asked for ways to bring it back to the original number. He would burn through the money, then call about issues. He also promised the number would remain, mentioned cost saving areas, and still we saw unexpected costs rise. Like we had a wood floor in half the home, and he promised that the floor budget would get cheaper because the flooring vendor mentioned we could reuse the old flooring with the new flooring. But we get the bill and the floor vendor wanted more money than what was budgeted. Or the cost for the electrician was more than the budget cost and more than the estimated cost our contractor thought would be to finish the last month of work. And then there was an issue where our contractor switched lumberyards and scammed the lumber owner to the point the lumber owner arrived on my doorstep telling me the situation (but I had told him the cost according to my budget sheet provided by the contractor was signed off as completed and all money allocated) and almost put a lien on my house (though I suspected that as a scam as well). Towards the end of the whole ordeal, the conversation switched to "we can do it" to "you'll find a way to get the money" eventually to downright combative towards me. Makes me furious as a specifier/designer because our budgets are set in stone, and we always give the client options to reduce cost or come up with specialized value engineering design right after construction documents. And then if there are issues not related to the original design, someone has to front the bill because a change order gets generated and at that point the client can legitimately complain or sue to get one of the trades to front the cost. But that is why we have submittal processes and schematic/design development/construction document phases so there are multiple avenues to push the communication back to clients and extend the life of the 20min rule that might not exist in a simple 30 min break during lunchtime. Hell even my plumber recently when he replaced my 20yo water heater (which was mentioned to be "like new" by my shitty contractor before he put it back in), gave me the tank cost and tankless cost and gave me the price that included labor/parts so I can see the breakdown. I don't know what I would do if I had to redo the whole process over because I think most of it would have turned out differently with another contractor.
I was a plasterer for 15 yrs and when you knew you Customer was like that we would put something noticeably that was easy to fix. So they could find something to pick on which made them happy (to tryto negotiate price) but we would fix the issue straight away. That customer with those blocks there was totally unreasonable and looking to save some money if possible, I personally would then go out of my way to solve there issue 2 or the 3 times. Must record the issues and your remedies though to use in court if need be so the judge can see your enthusiasm to solve any issues
This is great stuff. Kudos for trying to implement a quality customer experience. And this is beneficial for customers to watch. As a customer, I wouldn’t want the crew or team to feel like they’re being micromanaged. But at the same time, customers need to engage for those potential, at the moment adjustments or corrections.
I do industrial hvac, but when I started out I was a residential service tech. I got blamed for tripping a breaker for a freezer that I sware never existed. The people waited 2 weeks then called the shop to say I ruined an entire freezer of beef and The company was forced to buy them a whole cow. When my boss took the meat out I went with him and they wouldn’t show us the freezer. Neither of us think it was ever there
I see a lot of problems with contracts. You need to put it in writing that the customer SHALL INSPECT ALL WORK, at this level, then again at this level, and again and again IN ORDER TO NAKE ANY CHANGES. Then say no changes will be allowed after each inspection. If they opt to not inspect then NO CHANGES are allowed at any time. Next, you need to put in writing that all, blocks, rocks, pavers, etc will have chips in them and that will not inhibit the structural integrity of the work. It took me years to fine-tune my contracts to place all the responsibility on the customer. One time a customer ordered something RED, when it was delivered it was the wrong "shade" of RED. After that I put in my contract "WHEN ORDERING ANYTHING WITH COLOR PLEASE SUBMIT A PMS COLOR CODE" From then on I never had a problem with "colors". Every time there is a problem change your contract to reflect it. I even put in my contracts WE WILL NOT UNLOAD OUR TRUCKS OR BEGIN WORK UNLESS WE ARE 100% PAID UP FRONT. That cured all negotiations for a lower price after the fact.
Love it! I am on the other end of the spectrum as a homeowner that has gotten screwed over by all but 1 contractor that I've hired over 25 years of home ownership. Seems that 99% of the contractors just want to sub work out or cut corners or just not stick to the scope of work defined up front.
Matt that's way to high of a percentage of bad contractors. I would suggest that hiring the cheapest or someone with little or no experience will create that type of experience. Hire contractors who people speak highly of. I'm sure you'll pay more , but it much better then getting screwed....
@@27neverlose I hired a company because I saw them working on neighbor's house. I didn't see any issues and when I asked my neighbor, he said he had no problems with them and he researched a bunch of companies before setting on them. So I hired them and they were extremely sloppy and negligent (among many issues, they broke my sprinklers in 3 places when digging and just covered it over without telling me. I found out when I tried to use my system a few days later.. Then another neighbor hired them and they went back to being quick and efficient, didn't break sprinklers and the finished work wasn't substandard like mine. I should add that the whole time my crew was working, I provided ice cold water, drinks and snacks.
@@Test-vr3kf Wow, In my opinion any company that covers up property damage are always un-trustworthy.... I see this quite often, where they break the irrigation or electrical line and cover it up in hopes the issue somehow goes away. Instead of stubbing up both ends of the pipe and notifying the home owner. If they know how to make the repair and have the proper couplings and clams, then do so with a video or photograph of the exact location for the homeowner to see. I feel for you, but leopards don't usually change their spots from job to job. I'll bet your neighbors haven't noticed the short cuts or possible future issue/damage they may of created. Yours happened to be quite obvious once your system was back in uses. Make sure you hold them accountable for the cost of the repairs and let your neighbors know to keep an eye on them. Good luck
I was a contractor for 11 years and totally understand you customer concerns creating negotiation issues. Every customer got a contract and a page I discussed the necessity for a customer to participate during the project to identify anything that is of any concern. It is critical because everyone has a perspective on what looks Great and what isn't. To inspect things at the end makes it highly unlikely if not impossible for us to change something. The satisfaction of the customer is paramount and what looks good to one may not look quite so good to another. You get my point. At the end of a project there is no negotiation possible. A paragraph on what minor defects there may be is acceptable.
I understand being a paint contractor I hear you 1000% they like it till you load the truck then it doesn’t look right not all the time just a couple a year maybe . Good luck and hope you have some clients that communicate makes jobs go so much easier. They don’t understand that we don’t make mine on call backs.
Plowing snow, we had a driveway with very little snow storage, and the neighbor being down a retaining wall about 3 feet. I did my pushes, was on my way to another property, and the neighbor calls the company to complain we put snow in their driveway. I go back, take a couple pictures and send 'em to the owner (my direct boss) and there were two snowballs, maybe 1/2 inch in diameter, and a third even smaller that had gone over the top of the wall. This was on a 4-5inch snowfall. The neighbor was trying to say we needed to plow their driveway for free because of what we did. We did not plow their driveway.
When I worked in Portland Oregon I ran into some people that always seemed to try to find fault. But talking to other contractors I started heating the same names of people who would do the same to other contractors. I had thought that it would be useful if contractors could have a website to list these problem customers so that we all could avoid them. A lawyer said this would not be a good idea.
Yeah I always get that weird feeling when new customers avoid me on big jobs. I’m a mobile Mechanic but the same rules apply in my work as well. I have some stories for sure after doing this for 30 years. Another thing that sets of red flags is when I talk to a customer about issues with their vehicle and they act totally disinterested and aloof. Usually these people will neglect their vehicle and then blame me when the issues finally show themselves. I document everything I find and write the notes on their receipts as well as verbally explaining this to the customer….(if) they’re available to talk.
There was this lady I had done several jobs for in the past, no problem. She had this old 1950s mobile home she wanted to fix up (she was renting it out but had the couple evicted because they drank a lot and were trashing the place). Anyway, I started working on stuff but she stared whining about all sorts of things. The original wood doors in the kitchen had a satin finish. So when I repaired them and refinished them in satin she blew her stack .She said she wanted gloss. Anyway, she goobered gloss all over them and it looked like the fire department had hosed the kitchen down. Over the course of a couple of weeks I had several phone calls where we were both reduced to yelling at each other. I told her I quit. I ate several weeks of labor and a little under a thousand in materials but I am done with her for good. I have not ever yelled at anyone on a phone in the past, well, sixty plus years.
If you have a retaining wall below grade, like by a foundation window, and you have one of those chips is it possible to maybe get some cement in the chip area without the patch showing on the outside? Mostly for somebody like me that would probably be paranoid that dirt would start coming thru in a few months. I know that bricks are not going to be perfect. If you want no chips pour a solid foundation.
💥 As a fellow Minnesotan I know your 20 minute rule is actually like an hour and half where ya from, how’s your family, do you like to fish or hunt, what’s your favorite hot dish and goes on and on… 😂😂😂 *Keep on tractoring!*
I’m currently dealing with a customer not paying because the dirt gets muddy when it’s wet. He told me he wanted 40 yards of black dirt spread out in his front yard and that’s exactly what we did. Some people are just out of their minds!
First story about a company trying to cheat me; 10 years ago when I became a first time home owner my HVAC went out on July 4th weekend mind you I live in Arizona so it's over 100 degrees everyday and the only company that could make it out to the house had told me that my control board needed to be replaced before the AC could turn on and that it would take 5 days to get a control board shipped out. Luckily a friend of mine had shown up right as I was being told I'd be without AC, his dad was an electrician and callled a buddy of his who worked in HVAC to come take a quick look at the AC and when he arrived he informed me that the control board was only needed to run the heater not the AC and he had my AC back up and running before the first company had even left my house. Second story about a great company; I was getting my house repainted last year and from start to finish it was supposed to take 2 days, well after they had finished the owner came by to see how everything turned out and as we were talking he had pointed out he thought the colors looked off and after he made a phone call to his wife back at the office we found out that the wrong paint color was sent over with the guys who did the work, mind you the difference between the colors was unnoticable to me but the owner insisted that he have his guys come out the next day with the correct color I had originally picked out and repaint the house which to me is a sign of a buisness ran with honesty and integrity and when asked by a few people in the neighborhood on who painted my house I felt I had to tell them about the company I used and that even though they weren't the cheapest quote I had gotten that it was worth it in the long run seeing as how they could have said nothing in regards to the color issue and I would have never known.
Drawings and communication are key to understanding what a customer wants or needs. What I hate is having to fix someone else's screwups before you can even start your project.
I topsoiled a new lawn for a lady, moved heaven and earth to get there before spring break, 3 months later she wanted me to come back and retopsoil for free because the irrigation company had dug trenches and brought up stones
Been a contractor for years. Everything is great until it's time to get paid
Right, always wanting a reassessment or breakdown of cost again. Lol
I had a very similar experience with a customer. We were installing a new furnace and a/c and the customer was in ourback pocket all day talking and pestering us. As we were finishing up he comes from out of the blue and tells us that he wanted the whole unit moved like 4" to the right even though the new was in the same place as the old. We ultimately moved it but it cost most of the next day and they turned out to be the customer that no matter what you did it was never enough. They turned out to be the only customers that we actually told them never to call us again.
Haha those customers are always a learning curve especially regarding your own boundaries / how much BS you'll put up with. Actually teaches us a lot..in its own skewed kinda way lol
It sure does. I was doing basically the very same thing as your 20 minute rule. I did it as a way to diffuse calls that were feeling tense. I learned that I could almost always find something that I had in common with the customer. Common ground goes a long way to building a good relationship with the customer.
Love your videos!
Was working for my dad doing fence one time and someone’s wife made the pool guys move the brand new in ground 6 inches over. They paid for it though
@@jasonreist2528 iui
Well dont take me wrong but some times, they think same as you..they pretend be your friend then. Their expect to have a hold discont at and of the job.., so what I do is I'm going to pull inspection..system should be a up code and up manufactures recommendations...Done.
LOL!!! As a Special Inspector seen both sides of the disputes. Seen contractors fail to meet the contract specifications and Owners interfere and try to change things to late in the middle of the job, in both private and government work. Your one of the few that does a pretty good job in your broadcasts as a contractor. Thank you, and keep up the good work in my observations.
Thank you! I'm trying to be as transparent as possible, it tends to help everything work out best in the end 👌
@@Dirtmonkey do ya think it would be possible, to use some type, of mortar or concrete mix, to repair, those chips or do they make, something, for retaining walls, to repair facial chips, in the wall??🤔, I guess, I could Google it.🤔🤣✌️
Sadly, being in the excavation business for 27 years I have had a few bad customers. The most memorable was a satisfied customer that just didn't want to make the last payment. They admittedly had no problem with the work, they just didn't want to pay the balance. So a few days after a failed attempt to collect I did something that put me in the back of a sheriff's car. We went back to the job with the smooth face bucket on the excavator and 2 dump trucks. I was able to reclaim the rubble for about 3/4 of the total length of the driveway. The driveway install was the last part of the many things we did at this customers home. That driveway cost me labor hours to put down, labor hours to remove, and a few hours in county lock up. In the end it was very satisfying to me. Also in this small town it made more people aware that didn't already know me, don't f#(k with me. I'm proud to have a solid reputation in the community, both for my business and position in local government. But 12 years later people still talk about this in my sleepy little town lol!
It wasn't a recently fired senior politicin was it? He made that a normal business practice, even making NO payments, telling those he owed to "sue me" for the money, knowing full well it'd often cost more than the debt and, even if they did go ahead, they wouldn't see a result for years. He put a lot of smaller businesses out of business, and in at least one instance the lawyers that WON a case for him had to sue for payment.
@@gordowg1wg145 No, he wasn’t. Just a typical @$$h0!£. The day after he refused to pay I talked to his sister that happens to live next door to me. She said he will never pay, I will be added to the bottom of a long list of people that have judgements against him. Apparently every job he has ever held was off the books. I wish she had said something before I even started his job. On the following day I got my revenge. Although it created a buzz on the town Planning Board I serve on, the revenge was well worth it. I wasn’t removed from the board, but I would have been fine with it either way. It is a non paying position and the revenge would have been worth it. As far as I am concerned I provided a public service to everyone he’s ever screwed.
@@howlandexcavating
Is the revenge something I'd read on Reddit?
Regardless, if it was "well worth it" I would hope others who were similarly ripped off made some sort of "well done" comment to you?
Hopefully, if he's like that, he's going to have defaults against people he really doesn't want to mess with, like the bank or local authorities, who can force a house sale to recover outstanding debts.
Heck, if he was working "off the books" he would be MOST unlikely to have been paying his income taxes, so the IRS could REALLY f*ck him up with back-taxes, penalties and accrued interest. One would hope at least one of his creditors gave them a call.
@@gordowg1wg145 the revenge was removing the 12” thick layer of rubble I installed in his driveway. I was able to remove 3/4 the length of his driveway starting at his house. Then the sheriffs showed up and the rest was history.
@@howlandexcavating
😎👍😊
IMO, that's perfectly fair, leave the percentage that he paid for with his deposit and take the rest - doesn't cover the labour time, but he would have what he paid for...
Going to depend on the circumstances, but perhaps those reading may start at the road, removing a couple of feet, first so he won't have the access to the driveway remains to park his car until it's filled in if the police turn up - and if word about his refusal to pay 'somehow' spreads through the other business in the area, he may have problems sorting that out.
Problems with clients are increasing in today's entitlement mentality world.
Well said. This is exactly what I was thinking. Maybe not so much a scam as a person expecting perfection where perfection is not really possible.
Can't argue there
Been working since I was old enough to hold a shovel and been out on my old for 5 years I do concrete paving and excavating demolition clearing you’ll never get a project completely 100%. You can only keep improving and tighten up here and there but still will never get 100%. My issue is other contractors and clients who want the cheap price with absolute perfection in a imperfect world. I always want the client happy in the end just have a few that will avoid you and complain at the end.
8 yrs lawn mts
I would normally bill at the end of each month so I had to trust them to pay or I'd be out a month plus the couple weeks grace period.
Had a realtor literally cry trying to get out of paying. He was Iranian. They are shrewd.
I already gave him a great deal so I wouldn't budge
Then I had 1 guy stiff me on his home account & business account.
He was stiffing all his vendors too.
Offered to settle it man to man after 5 months.
He wrote me a check then stopped payment.
Took him to small claims & won.
Other than that everyone paid no problems no questions.
I tried to do a a1 job everytime .
Threw in little freebies like 1 free fertilizing per year.
Loved it!
Gas prices makes me happy I'm not still in it
Yeah, that and a lot, expect, too much, for THEIR money.🤔🤷
Very good information everyone should be aware of, when working with customers. I have been very Fortinet that most of my customers have been available for me to talk with and ask their opinion on the project progression.
Great content and extremally worthwhile information thanks Stanley!
Did plumbing service work for 29 years. Got real smart showing customers chips, tears, burns , or scratches on floors or countertops before starting a job. Used towels, drops, or cardboard to cover their stuff, but still had the shysters try to get freebies (which sometimes the boss caved in to the whining) for damage that was not either me or a helpers fault. It's sad that there are people like that, and professional contractors/service people have to grin and bear it occasionally. Now days your cell phone or camera is a great way to document before, during, and after. Great videos, great looking and professionally done projects! This plumbing guy has learned a lot from your vids...Thanks!
Y'all do a good job, Stanley! I enjoy your blogs and Victory Concrete in Wisconsin, though I'm toiling here in the crappy, yearly, Summer heat here in DFW.
Some cool info and knowledge to take away when dealing with contractors. I always treat contractors as equals and gauge them on their ability to communicate and be open to my needs and at times, minor concerns. Hard work and I for one appreciate it what you guys put into it.
I have only done about a dozen walls when I ran a garden center in BC, all engineered, high end repeat multiple project customers. I made a point of pointing out the manufacturing defects in the blocks to clients before hand and informing them they could pay more for the extra handling ( inevitable) if they wanted a no blem wall but also told them it was pointless because they would exfoliate with weathering anyway.
Honesty is the best policy 👍
@@Dirtmonkey Yup, upfront so there are no crossed wires, Sad your lead couldn't go eyeballs to eyeballs with that wall owner before that huge pain in everyones ass.
Lol… West Vancouver!
@@kristenvincent3622 No, big one on Bowen though.
@@flightographist and that is close enough! 😂 could’ve been Pender Island too… FB has been taunting me with “8 years ago” patio build pictures of my last house… just a few more years and I can start on my landscaping and retaining walls here on Saturna. 🇨🇦 thinking about stepping up my game too for this one into more decorative finishes, there is an awesome mason retired here.
This is a small one, I just did some repair and maintenance on a commercial mower for a customer who's always VERY finicky. Before I started I said "just to reiterate, [said back what they said they wanted done], anything else we'll have to revisit with diagnosis another time right?" They said YUP and I did the work. This is at their house BTW. Parts and tools brought on site so they didn't have to leave home or have it hauled. After, they checked the mower and something they didn't tell me about wasn't fixed... "why isn't this fixed?" You didn't tell me about it. "Ok but I wanted this fixed too. What am I paying you for?" You're paying me for the work you asked for and now you'll be paying someone else for future work. Wasn't the 1st time with them "not understanding" what had been talked about before a job started but it was the last time!
Another awesome video and how it should be done with dealing with customers. I know your job with dealing with customers is hair pulling, and there are alot of dishonest people out there. I'm glad you have the skills and brains to discover the truth and facts. Great job. Keep up the great work. Keep safe
being a small time landlord and being neighbors with my tenants has led to me never having to evict anyone. when they have gotten behind they know i work same as they do for a living and if they don't pay, it comes out of my blue collar paycheck. i ask them to leave and they leave. this 20 minute rule is for sure a thing.
You got it down 👌
Stan, you and your whole crew have tons of integrity, but in this day and age, be careful, many consumers and contractors don't. It's becoming scary, how many people just have no morals, boundaries or care for anyone but themselves. We define these people as sociopathic. Only getting what they want, no matter what they have to do to get it.
Cudos to your company!
As we go in to bad economic downturn, only great companies like yours, are going to survive. You can take this to the bank!
Great video Stan!
I love that you use these videos to teach others, it inspires me to do the same.
There are some people that look upon service folk as Beneath them. IMHO, they tend to not like to get their hands dirty.
One more comment. Doesn't it seem like it's usually the really rich people that try not to pay? I have done several different types of work, but mostly landscape, hardscape, and irrigation.
More than once, we had to go back to a job site and reclaim all of our materials. Luckily my boss was a solid guy, and the law always took his side. He was well connected because he is just a great guy, and everyone likes him. He is also a beast, so not scared of anybody.
We even pulled up a big shot lawyers fence in broad daylight, ripped everything out of the ground and left the place destroyed. But hey, we gave the guy more than a year to pay.
The county declined to prosecute. Lol
That may be true- but go to a restaurant and it is often the lowest grade people who complain the most about minor things with service, food, or anything else. That is the only time they are in a "power position" in their lives, so they tend to abuse the wait staff the worst.
NICE! BASTARD DEADBEAT LAWYER!!
Had a customer stop my work about half way done. They wanted all (20) of their overgrown burning bushes cut down to 5 feet, which I started to do. The look on her face was priceless when she looked out the window at her leafless BBs. She came out screaming, STOP,STOP!!! I said. don’t you remember our conversation yesterday about what they were going to look like??? I specifically said that there would be little to no leaves on a hard pruned BB. It was even spelled out on the contract. I trimmed the rest and they honored the bill. Like you said Stan, it’s hard for some people to visualize the finished bush/wall, whatever. This was three years ago. I drove by the job site a couple weeks ago and the “hacked” bushes are really nice looking now!!😃😃. The couple are probably wishing that I had done all of them. Oh well. Great pay day 🌳. Thanks for all you do DM!!!
hahaha, reminds me of my student days.
Earning some money doing garden work for a woman and she told me she had some shrubs that had white flowers, that she liked, and to leave those, but pull out the rest - so that's what I was doing when she came out yelling. Turned out her shrubs with the 'white flowers' hadn't come into bloom yet, and it was the shrubs that had early blooming white flowers she wanted pulled out...
Great video and Awesome 👏 insight. I definitely like your 20 minute rule and I also do something very similar with my customers on my job sites.
Really enjoyed this I’ve seen many shows over here in the uk on so called cowboy contractors but have often wondered why I haven’t seen many on cowboy customers, in the world we live in now so many people are looking for ways to get money off not many seem to have any integrity any more, well done guys for flagging this up!!!!
Damn Alex is jacked! Haven’t watched in awhile saving them so I can binge watch. Nice work Stan!
I hate customers like that. I try like hell yo talk to customers n show them progress as the job goes for the exact reasons you stated. Great video n glad you make ppl aware of how jobs can go
Happy to share 👊
I am not a contractor, but I appreciate the advice on how customers need to work with the contractor. Mutual respect. Thanks so much. ☺🙏
And I super appreciate the care 😊
People be so much fun. Worked with alot of builders 👷♂️ over the years. If I miss something I 'm the one who did it not them.Only had one bad one. Nails not put in all the way on shingles. Was a year of come and see what was wrong.Well it pays to keep your cool and not be a dope. The contractor was just super behind. He came,I thanked him for coming and he fixed it right.I would have him back. Good video about working with people. Thanks 😊.
I love the natural wood doors and door frames and stairway banisters and the natural wood accents everywhere in your house it looks amazing and gives it a more homey/Cottage feel to it. Very cool
Great discussion! This is a must and it's great you welcome feedback. Lack of communication leads to most of our societies problems (peoples perspectives of each other's position is almost impossible to understand). Thx
I am a retired tile contractor. If the customer complained about all of the previous work they had done. I would ask them how their issues were resolved and if they were satisfied. At that point you know if you want to work on their project.
the owner of the company always makes the final decision on everything not your foreman. the foreman doesn't lose any money if the wrong decision is made he still gets paid the owner loses the money.
I'm a flooring contractor out of greater KC and now a firm believer in 20 min rule . I had let 2 finished jobs go unpaid with a new builder I took on thinking we would just pull all the jobs on one check and when I was finished with the 3rd job and went to get paid I couldn't find him anywhere and that's been 5 yrs ago and I'm out 5 grand and still had to pay help .
The bad customers, in my experience, have all waited til the last second on finishing the project, and they come with their lies to try not to pay. The entire project they continually complement everything, until it about to be done and they have to pay. But again, we have contracts, and take pictures or videos daily. So they are still up against the wall of contractural law and will regret lying and trying to steal money for the work that was performed.
Absolutely love this man's videos.
Btw, I have it stated in my warrant clause attached to the contract that "chips" are a part of the general make up and manufacturing procedure of segmental retaining wall block and will not be covered under warranty unless they fall under "unacceptable compliance per the manufacturer's assessment of "within spec". Please see manufacturer's specification details or their representative for interpretation of "within spec" I also have an entire paragraph devoted to no warranty vulnerability to efflorescence (aka:eflo) and block/paver color variations..
Hey Stan. This week has been a blast. I love my new job. Monday through Wednesday I was mowing on brand new mowers then yesterday and today I was cutting down a massive elm tree for one of our schools. I got to run the wood chipper (them things are loud and imitating) I also got to drive one of the case wheel loader and most of the city’s one ton dump truck pickups. Loved the wheel loader and the trucks. I got one hell of a farmers tan going lol.
Got to go to my girlfriends grad party tonight which should be interesting. (Yes I did get her a gift).
Have a great weekend Stan!
Wow you go little man!! Proud of you and the work you're doing. Keep at it, God Bless, and go get emmm 😁👍
Dirt Monkey, I've been watching dozens of your videos and you have such a good approach to the jobs, customer relations, and business management. Love learning from these videos. Wish I could hire you for my new home project this summer!
Such an top notch, excellent channel, well done from San Antonio!
Stan.An honest contractor.If I was to pick a contractor you and your crew would be #1.👏🏼👏🏼👍🇨🇦🇺🇸
Im sure most customers are decent people, but over years, you will encounter bad apples. Its inevitable. Its all in how you deal with it in my opinion! Keep up the great work! I hope you have a great weekend!
You got it! Just keep swimming 😁
Another good one Stan, if hit the lottery I'd want you to be on my job of building my home.
There used to be a site called "clients from hell" with similar horror stories. It was mostly about graphic designers, but people tried to pull the same kind of crap. Mission creep, endless revisions, happy until the last second for a discount. Gotta watch out for these folks no matter what ya do!
Love the stories. Keep 'em coming.
Will do 👍 thanks!
A good mate was pestered by one his tenants to put air conditioning in her apartment bedroom.
My mate was reluctant, but as it was a long term tenant in good standing, he had a split system installed at huge cost (because of location in a multi-storey apartment bldg). A week later the tenant calls and says “it’s too cold, take it out again”!
Those little chips aren't enough to worry about. The one big chip you pointed out on the first wall, if there was a bunch of those, would be a legitimate complaint. If someone is bitching about the little ones, I would say they're just looking for something to complain about in order to try to get a discount.
Well. Said.
Or they're a virgo, my parents, boss and son are like that drives me crazy. My mom was talking to the rug installer about nothing and didn't tell him what she wanted , I was putting the baby down for a nap. Just happened to not be downstairs. So then I had to change the doorway for her but she's complaining about the staples. I said to her I'm not buying a rug stapler for 30 staples your gonna have to live with it. Learn when you hire someone to communicate about what you want if it's not cut and dried.
There are “some” people who are wired to automatically look for those flaws and defects after a job or project is complete. I know because I am married to one. She is a pain in the ass about it. Our Versa Lok retaining wall has about 6 small chips in it. She immediately pointed em out when she got home. It is what it is I told her, that crew would not be coming back to take down and re lay the blocks, and there was no way in hell I was going to do it. I said if she wanted to help I would give it a go (I knew she would not). Her whole side of a family I believe get off on looking for flaws, like they get an award for locating em! I just brush it off and ignore her when I do stuff around the house now. Some customers you never can please
I don't work in landscaping, but that method you're talking about is nearly identical to what I do in the software industry. We demo and talk with our end users as frequently as possible. That way we can get their input and make shifts as soon as possible if necessary (also nice to get the thumbs up that things are good too).
Awesome. I think it's probably a pretty universal thing to communicate as much as possible for lack of potential issues 👍
My grandson came in as your guy was explaining the 20 minute rule and yelled "It's Stretch Armstrong!!" good video as well.
Great video as usual, I maintain about 86 mowing accounts. I'm not the owner but everyone of my customers knows my name and I know there's and I speak with them on a regular basis!!! We like to call it " lip service " lol. Again great video
I am always interested at the 'mowing' business model. 86 accounts, at that number you must really need to be good at logistics, repairs, and managing your workers. What does an average mowing account pay every month in the industry? I pay my homeyard guy 190 a month in San Antonio and he is in and outin 30 minutes. Very interesting stuff, stay safe!
Wow!!! That is a NICE looking Kubota skid steer. Looks like you guys just picked it off the lot the SAME DAY and took it straight to the job sight.
I really like the idea of the 20min rule. Good stuff, I'm going to apply that to my own work. Thank you!
Love your work and videos. For 20 years I had a janitorial company here in Southern California. Obviously noting like you do but the bottom line issue is customers and in my case getting them to pay for a job well done. Had a customer call to say they needed a very quick construction cleanup of a penthouse and adjacent condos behind an ocean view home. Open house in a few days. I took a crew in and almost worked 24 hour days to complete before open house and we were successful to the satisfaction of the customer. I submitted my bill which was as I had bid, no remuneration. I sent another, no response so then I visited the ocean front residence with no response. As this is an area of beautiful homes, I then parked in front of their home with a big sign on my vehicle " Resident Does Not Pay For Work Performed". Within 60 minutes I got a call from the real estate firm handling the open house and I was paid in full!
A 2nd case was a contractor that hired me to do a construction cleanup, again at the last minute. Took a crew in and again we had it cleaned thoroughly before the deadline. Several attempts to get paid, then finally I parked in front of their office with a similar sign on the public street and soon I got called and was immediately paid.
In both cases, of course there was the option of small claims court or other legal remedies but I knew I would never deal with either party again, so why not try another remedy? Good luck to all hardworking contractors out there!
Only two I can think of off hand is when I first started my business a lady asked me to wash her windows. I showed up with my supplies start cleaning. She stops me tells me she wants me to use her supplies because,”Windex streaks too much.” I obliged. Cleaned her windows gave her the invoice she didn’t pay me because they looked dirty and too streaky. The other I gave a price to do leaves and told them specifically that there’s a haul away/disposal fee. They said how much if you don’t because we dump them in the swamp across the street. Everyone does. I picked them up and dumped them and the owner of the “swamp” got in my face and said to pick them up and take them away or we’ll have a big problem. The customer got a discounted price and I almost got a trespassing ticket from the sheriff because they didn’t want to pay the extra amount.
LOL wow. Sounds like they need to screw some loose knobs in their head together 🤪
I love your log cabin. It's beautiful.
I recently had a slab poured for a small 30' x 20' shop and the first day I met the guy who ran the small company doing the work he almost felt like an old friend. I spent 25+ years fitting and welding pipe so I know what its like to have someone bird dogging you while you work. So I told this guy to just do the job and I wouldnt be hanging around nitpicking everything they did but if he did need me just give me a call. He and his guys did a quick, accurate, level and square slab for me, they also shoved some brush and other natural growth back making it much easier to get around the area.
A year ago had a 20' X 20' slab with a stem wall "placed" for a small garage. The concrete fellow came over and talked for the 20 minutes, had a good idea of what I was talking about, kept communications open through text messaging, he took photos as he went, I felt he wasn't charging enough for his time (the prices of the material I knew, a neighbor was the supplier of the concrete)... when he was completedafter the placing of the concrete I gave him the final payment, plus $100 for each of th eworkers on the job. It was his business and his choice as to what he did with the money. The next year I needed some more concrete work done and experienced the same excellent service. If I need more in the future I will not hesitate to call this fellow, and recommend him to my neighbors. Having a neighbor in the concrete business did help, he was checking the concrete mix coming off his truck, the concrete guy didn't know this was a neighbor of mine and was surprised to see him at the job site when the concrete was delivered. I believe this hard working concrete man provides this type of service for everyone he does business with.
Stan, great content as always and I did a stone walkway which was around 25 years old since first installed and I tried to get the home owner to picket the grout color that looks as close to the original as possible which you know is impossible to match perfectly. I got as close as possible but it did not take long before I knew what was happening. The home owner was a retired contractor who knows how to get around.end result since I was fairly new I tried to talk to the person but no matter what I said or showed the person was adamantly matter of fact With his attitude about the grout and how it is not acceptable to him. I finally becoming frustrated with the home owner that I said, "look my company is built on Character, Integrity and workmanship, which as far as I am concerned all goes hand in hand and without you are nothing. My Values (self, business) are Worth more and means more to me than what this job could ever pay; and if you are that dissatisfied than keep your money - you owe me nothing. Which the home owner said - anybody can tell you are a man of integrity - whichI said back to the home owner - then, why don't you pay me/ then the home owner had the nerve to ask me to do more work. LOL
The 20 minute rule is also important for before you bid the job. I have bid jobs WAY high and asked for way more money down before starting after getting a bad vibe from the potential customer. I was thankful when I did not got some of those jobs.
Kitchen and bath cabinets sometimes I always ask my customers to inspect and sign off on cabinets since 2013.. I asked a customer to look at all the cabinets after one of my guys unboxed all of them approximately 38 cabinets and the customer said that they didn’t have time that they’re sure that the cabinets are what they looked at and ordered I was just the installer so after I installed their hickory cabinets they waited until all the cabinets were up and said that those were not hickory cabinets and they were not the same wood pattern as the one they looked at at the kitchen store I told them Hickory has all kinds of patterns in them and not two cabinets are the same… they wanted me to take them all out until they talk to the kitchen shop where they purchased them from and found out what I was telling them was the absolute truth
This is the way! Brother God bless
Hey stan thanks for the video. Finally got 4 hours of sleep so I was able to watch your video without falling asleep lol. Have a blessed day!!!
4 hours is a lot for you? Lol geez
@@Dirtmonkey it is with a new baby lol!
I love how your parrot is meowing.
That sideways ceiling mount light though 😂
I had a new customer for mowing a few years back. They gave us a verbal approval but due to people being scummy in the past I require a written approval (i.e. signed paper or an email or text that has the job description and price with them replying they accept please begin.) So we were still waiting for this client to send the written authorization the day we were supposed to start servicing their property. since I didn't have it we didn't go. the next day I got a text from this person saying how they are not happy at all.they said we blew clippings everywhere on walks the driveway deck cars it was a huge mess we hit the house a few times ripped up the yard etc. I told them we never went there because they didn't approve the work in writing. still have not heard back🤔.
Gotta love those honest thankful customers!! 😮
I've been in the same position with walls! Here's my advice. Like stans points, they are manufacturing faults, simple as that. Yes big chips are no bueno...but if they want them replaced they pay for the time to go get the new material, also the overall project scope's square face feet goes up accordingly, and they have to pay for the time and material for reconstruction...this usually gets them quiet again....also! my ace in the hole is astonishingly good at knocking off scrap corners and then using your favorite adhesive, glue um right in that seam! The karens will never know!
Yes sir another blessing video !!!
I've had really good clients this year and last year. But 2 years ago, I had a sub-contractor hit the ease trough on on a project we we're completing. I immediately went to the client to break down the process(this is back when I didn't have well written contracts yet) and I talked to a another contractor to come and fix it. They ended up charging me for the whole house's ease tough after they brought their own guy, and replaced it before they let me fix it myself.
Not a good situation. They deducted off my quote for the amount they spent, which was about 4 times as much as the one I had lined up. I learned that deposits, client profiling, and more importantly the terms and conditions are really important. I write in that I have the first right to fix what I've done wrong, and replace/fix anything that's broken.
I'm only 3 minutes into this video and I already have to say I get it. I do flooring for a very high end company.. 90% of our customers are legit but some of our customers are crazy. What I do is craftsmanship. But if they can get a freebie they will... My goal is to never have call backs.... And I do beyond the 20 minute rule... If you let people know that you actually care usually they back off... But every now and then you have the one that will absolutely milk anything for a discount or free job
I am a flooring contractor, and you speak the truth.
Hard to bring it up right away if they need time to look for any tiny imperfections to try to use to their advantage. Karen’s go deep when they get desperate.
I've had my share of clients that tried to nit pick and not pay. Fortunately my tree work and excavation work generally doesn't have a lot of material expenses so the few times I've gotten stung anymore more or less is just lost time, still don't like it but easier to let it go. I'm a person who loves what I do and enjoys interaction with clients about the project to the point I've had people say I just want you to do the work because I like you. Once that relationship is built the job is always fun and a client for life, sometimes friends for life. People like that know people like that and want you to work for them as well. On the other hand when your gut doesn't like something and you can't put your finger on why graciously decline the project. Never be afraid to walk away at any point but always exhaust your reasonable options to finish the job.
Beautifully said. Be as friendly as you are and *always listen to your gut 👌
Wow you guys have awesome videos keep up the good work.
As a specifier for lighting fixtures, if I saw a product that continues to piss off clients with a visual esthetic issue, I would never specify the product again until they fixed the issue. I had issues on jobs where lighting products started to bend due to heat, and while the manufacturer says it is within specified limits, the cost rolls downhill; clients will argue the defect is not the lighting they were promised (rightfully so), the contractor will either change it (cost hours) or argue they installed it right (kicks back to the client/specifier). So as a specifier/designer, products have to excel in function AND form. And getting a mock-up installed or a photos of previous projects is very important. If these blocks are the most inexpensive blocks produced and clients love the cost, it should be mentioned to them that they have corners that chip, and are designed to have those happen. Then let them decide during planning if they want to switch materials, and of course get them some samples! As a homeowner I think those chips look mechanical and purposeful even though it sounds like the chips happen outside the manufacturing process (and adds some real material identity to the block). But having the owner come out during lunchtime like was mentioned is kind of a way that resembles that communication mentioned above.
Related to the 20min rule, as a client myself I had a house renovation that resulted in an increase in the budget by 60k. And alot of it could have been tackled had the 20 min rule included updated pricing for things like covid induced supply issues, potential cost savings to reach the original budget number, reducing scope of the project (we had a garage converted to a master bedroom/bath/closet/laundry room), etc. Now we paid the cost (had to borrow more than we wanted to front), but towards the middle of the project we raised all sorts of hell to get our contractor to understand budgets can flex with emergency issues, but not the original scope of work and asked for ways to bring it back to the original number. He would burn through the money, then call about issues. He also promised the number would remain, mentioned cost saving areas, and still we saw unexpected costs rise. Like we had a wood floor in half the home, and he promised that the floor budget would get cheaper because the flooring vendor mentioned we could reuse the old flooring with the new flooring. But we get the bill and the floor vendor wanted more money than what was budgeted. Or the cost for the electrician was more than the budget cost and more than the estimated cost our contractor thought would be to finish the last month of work. And then there was an issue where our contractor switched lumberyards and scammed the lumber owner to the point the lumber owner arrived on my doorstep telling me the situation (but I had told him the cost according to my budget sheet provided by the contractor was signed off as completed and all money allocated) and almost put a lien on my house (though I suspected that as a scam as well). Towards the end of the whole ordeal, the conversation switched to "we can do it" to "you'll find a way to get the money" eventually to downright combative towards me.
Makes me furious as a specifier/designer because our budgets are set in stone, and we always give the client options to reduce cost or come up with specialized value engineering design right after construction documents. And then if there are issues not related to the original design, someone has to front the bill because a change order gets generated and at that point the client can legitimately complain or sue to get one of the trades to front the cost. But that is why we have submittal processes and schematic/design development/construction document phases so there are multiple avenues to push the communication back to clients and extend the life of the 20min rule that might not exist in a simple 30 min break during lunchtime. Hell even my plumber recently when he replaced my 20yo water heater (which was mentioned to be "like new" by my shitty contractor before he put it back in), gave me the tank cost and tankless cost and gave me the price that included labor/parts so I can see the breakdown.
I don't know what I would do if I had to redo the whole process over because I think most of it would have turned out differently with another contractor.
I was a plasterer for 15 yrs and when you knew you Customer was like that we would put something noticeably that was easy to fix. So they could find something to pick on which made them happy (to tryto negotiate price) but we would fix the issue straight away.
That customer with those blocks there was totally unreasonable and looking to save some money if possible, I personally would then go out of my way to solve there issue 2 or the 3 times. Must record the issues and your remedies though to use in court if need be so the judge can see your enthusiasm to solve any issues
This is great stuff. Kudos for trying to implement a quality customer experience. And this is beneficial for customers to watch. As a customer, I wouldn’t want the crew or team to feel like they’re being micromanaged. But at the same time, customers need to engage for those potential, at the moment adjustments or corrections.
I do industrial hvac, but when I started out I was a residential service tech. I got blamed for tripping a breaker for a freezer that I sware never existed. The people waited 2 weeks then called the shop to say I ruined an entire freezer of beef and The company was forced to buy them a whole cow. When my boss took the meat out I went with him and they wouldn’t show us the freezer. Neither of us think it was ever there
I see a lot of problems with contracts. You need to put it in writing that the customer SHALL INSPECT ALL WORK, at this level, then again at this level, and again and again IN ORDER TO NAKE ANY CHANGES. Then say no changes will be allowed after each inspection. If they opt to not inspect then NO CHANGES are allowed at any time. Next, you need to put in writing that all, blocks, rocks, pavers, etc will have chips in them and that will not inhibit the structural integrity of the work.
It took me years to fine-tune my contracts to place all the responsibility on the customer. One time a customer ordered something RED, when it was delivered it was the wrong "shade" of RED. After that I put in my contract "WHEN ORDERING ANYTHING WITH COLOR PLEASE SUBMIT A PMS COLOR CODE" From then on I never had a problem with "colors".
Every time there is a problem change your contract to reflect it. I even put in my contracts WE WILL NOT UNLOAD OUR TRUCKS OR BEGIN WORK UNLESS WE ARE 100% PAID UP FRONT. That cured all negotiations for a lower price after the fact.
Dang your house is cool as hell. And your boy there is jacked.
Love it! I am on the other end of the spectrum as a homeowner that has gotten screwed over by all but 1 contractor that I've hired over 25 years of home ownership. Seems that 99% of the contractors just want to sub work out or cut corners or just not stick to the scope of work defined up front.
Matt that's way to high of a percentage of bad contractors. I would suggest that hiring the cheapest or someone with little or no experience will create that type of experience. Hire contractors who people speak highly of. I'm sure you'll pay more , but it much better then getting screwed....
@@27neverlose I hired a company because I saw them working on neighbor's house. I didn't see any issues and when I asked my neighbor, he said he had no problems with them and he researched a bunch of companies before setting on them.
So I hired them and they were extremely sloppy and negligent (among many issues, they broke my sprinklers in 3 places when digging and just covered it over without telling me. I found out when I tried to use my system a few days later..
Then another neighbor hired them and they went back to being quick and efficient, didn't break sprinklers and the finished work wasn't substandard like mine.
I should add that the whole time my crew was working, I provided ice cold water, drinks and snacks.
@@Test-vr3kf Wow, In my opinion any company that covers up property damage are always un-trustworthy....
I see this quite often, where they break the irrigation or electrical line and cover it up in hopes the issue somehow goes away. Instead of stubbing up both ends of the pipe and notifying the home owner. If they know how to make the repair and have the proper couplings and clams, then do so with a video or photograph of the exact location for the homeowner to see.
I feel for you, but leopards don't usually change their spots from job to job. I'll bet your neighbors haven't noticed the short cuts or possible future issue/damage they may of created. Yours happened to be quite obvious once your system was back in uses. Make sure you hold them accountable for the cost of the repairs and let your neighbors know to keep an eye on them. Good luck
I would highly recommend that you never ever do any types of big jobs for someone in your family. Unless you want to do it for free.
I was a contractor for 11 years and totally understand you customer concerns creating negotiation issues. Every customer got a contract and a page I discussed the necessity for a customer to participate during the project to identify anything that is of any concern. It is critical because everyone has a perspective on what looks Great and what isn't. To inspect things at the end makes it highly unlikely if not impossible for us to change something. The satisfaction of the customer is paramount and what looks good to one may not look quite so good to another. You get my point. At the end of a project there is no negotiation possible. A paragraph on what minor defects there may be is acceptable.
You and your guys are good contractors. I believe good contractors can help make better customers.
Stanley, What a cool house you have, Love it.
You have Thor running your jobs? I'm impressed.
I understand being a paint contractor I hear you 1000% they like it till you load the truck then it doesn’t look right not all the time just a couple a year maybe . Good luck and hope you have some clients that communicate makes jobs go so much easier. They don’t understand that we don’t make mine on call backs.
Plowing snow, we had a driveway with very little snow storage, and the neighbor being down a retaining wall about 3 feet. I did my pushes, was on my way to another property, and the neighbor calls the company to complain we put snow in their driveway. I go back, take a couple pictures and send 'em to the owner (my direct boss) and there were two snowballs, maybe 1/2 inch in diameter, and a third even smaller that had gone over the top of the wall. This was on a 4-5inch snowfall.
The neighbor was trying to say we needed to plow their driveway for free because of what we did.
We did not plow their driveway.
First off, you need to give us Alex's social media, because he is werking hard on the guns! I came for the thirst trap. I need more!
When I worked in Portland Oregon I ran into some people that always seemed to try to find fault. But talking to other contractors I started heating the same names of people who would do the same to other contractors. I had thought that it would be useful if contractors could have a website to list these problem customers so that we all could avoid them. A lawyer said this would not be a good idea.
I thought I had heard of a list like that- it was kind of a "reverse Angie's list".
Love to see the stories!!
Love to hear it 😁
Who knew that Thor would eventually get into landscaping LOL
Can we all just take a moment and realize he had Thor as a stone mason
😂👍
I enjoy your videos sir I hope you keep unloading even more !
That's the plan man! Thanks for the support. God Bless & go get em 👊
dude, solid advice. I call those micro chips "character".
Yeah I always get that weird feeling when new customers avoid me on big jobs.
I’m a mobile Mechanic but the same rules apply in my work as well.
I have some stories for sure after doing this for 30 years.
Another thing that sets of red flags is when I talk to a customer about issues with their vehicle and they act totally disinterested and aloof.
Usually these people will neglect their vehicle and then blame me when the issues finally show themselves.
I document everything I find and write the notes on their receipts as well as verbally explaining this to the customer….(if) they’re available to talk.
Stan, tell em to choke on a kiełbasa 💪😅
Shoulda woulda coulda 😂
There was this lady I had done several jobs for in the past, no problem. She had this old 1950s mobile home she wanted to fix up (she was renting it out but had the couple evicted because they drank a lot and were trashing the place). Anyway, I started working on stuff but she stared whining about all sorts of things. The original wood doors in the kitchen had a satin finish. So when I repaired them and refinished them in satin she blew her stack .She said she wanted gloss. Anyway, she goobered gloss all over them and it looked like the fire department had hosed the kitchen down. Over the course of a couple of weeks I had several phone calls where we were both reduced to yelling at each other. I told her I quit. I ate several weeks of labor and a little under a thousand in materials but I am done with her for good. I have not ever yelled at anyone on a phone in the past, well, sixty plus years.
The one I get witch is often solved when you pull out before photos is things already broken that we are blamed for.
A simple punch list helps us out a lot!!
Very interesting video, loved it.
If you have a retaining wall below grade, like by a foundation window, and you have one of those chips is it possible to maybe get some cement in the chip area without the patch showing on the outside? Mostly for somebody like me that would probably be paranoid that dirt would start coming thru in a few months. I know that bricks are not going to be perfect. If you want no chips pour a solid foundation.
💥 As a fellow Minnesotan I know your 20 minute rule is actually like an hour and half where ya from, how’s your family, do you like to fish or hunt, what’s your favorite hot dish and goes on and on… 😂😂😂
*Keep on tractoring!*
Haha pretty much!
This is fantastic. He independently invented elevator pitches.
Stanley. Didn't know Thor was into construction 😎
I’m currently dealing with a customer not paying because the dirt gets muddy when it’s wet. He told me he wanted 40 yards of black dirt spread out in his front yard and that’s exactly what we did. Some people are just out of their minds!
Customer needs a walkway but the vines strangling the house ate good
First story about a company trying to cheat me; 10 years ago when I became a first time home owner my HVAC went out on July 4th weekend mind you I live in Arizona so it's over 100 degrees everyday and the only company that could make it out to the house had told me that my control board needed to be replaced before the AC could turn on and that it would take 5 days to get a control board shipped out. Luckily a friend of mine had shown up right as I was being told I'd be without AC, his dad was an electrician and callled a buddy of his who worked in HVAC to come take a quick look at the AC and when he arrived he informed me that the control board was only needed to run the heater not the AC and he had my AC back up and running before the first company had even left my house. Second story about a great company; I was getting my house repainted last year and from start to finish it was supposed to take 2 days, well after they had finished the owner came by to see how everything turned out and as we were talking he had pointed out he thought the colors looked off and after he made a phone call to his wife back at the office we found out that the wrong paint color was sent over with the guys who did the work, mind you the difference between the colors was unnoticable to me but the owner insisted that he have his guys come out the next day with the correct color I had originally picked out and repaint the house which to me is a sign of a buisness ran with honesty and integrity and when asked by a few people in the neighborhood on who painted my house I felt I had to tell them about the company I used and that even though they weren't the cheapest quote I had gotten that it was worth it in the long run seeing as how they could have said nothing in regards to the color issue and I would have never known.
Drawings and communication are key to understanding what a customer wants or needs.
What I hate is having to fix someone else's screwups before you can even start your project.
1:40 when you’re setting the camera up in the ram for the “hop in the truck” action scene.
I topsoiled a new lawn for a lady, moved heaven and earth to get there before spring break, 3 months later she wanted me to come back and retopsoil for free because the irrigation company had dug trenches and brought up stones
She must've been smoking that hunter biden mozarella 🧀 cheeze
People these days..
@@Boomhauer333 Smoking actual crack would probably be better for you than smoking moldy cheese.
Alex is one of the most Thor-looking dudes I've ever seen