Your Livescope is Destroying the Sport of Fishing
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- čas přidán 19. 04. 2023
- Fishing is recreation that’s also big business. According to the American Sportfishing Association, recreational fishing has an annual financial impact of $129 billion, and supports nearly a million jobs.
Much of that revenue is earned by gear and tackle companies, which are constantly innovating to create products that make it easier to catch fish. And good for them. Without their drive and genius, we might all still be standing on the bank with cane poles.
But a strong argument could be made these guys have done their job too well, and fishing as we know it - both low-key weekend angling and high-stakes tournament competitions - has been permanently transformed, and not necessarily for the better.
Back in what now seems prehistoric times - you know, a decade ago - anglers had to read water and correspond that with their knowledge about how changing seasons affected bait and fish migrations in order to have success on the water.
Now, however, with the technological advancement of forward-facing sonar, like Garmin’s LiveScope, anglers don’t have to cast and hope for bites to prove their hypotheses correct. They need only look at their electronics, which show them in real-time exactly how many fish are holding on a particular stretch of structure or cover.
There’s no more wasted time spent casting to barren water. If your electronics show you there are no fish there, you simply pick up and go to a different area that’s more populated.
That certainly sounds good, especially for anglers who are scouting for tournaments, but the emergence of forward-facing sonar may have some unintended consequences for the industry that won’t ultimately be very good for it.
The most obvious is the exponential increase in efficiency that could lead to significant overfishing. Fish that historically held in areas ignored by most anglers are now discoverable and catchable.
Those are fish that formed a reproductive base, adding annual progeny that was supplemented by fish in more obvious areas that somehow escaped harvest. Now that they aren’t living unmolested lives, what type of impact will that have on spawning success rates? The answer is surely not zero, and shrinking fish populations lead to less angler success, which, in turn, leads to lower angler enthusiasm.
Forward-facing sonar is also dramatically impacting tournament fishing in America. Although high-dollar tours like BASS and MLF get all the headlines, they’re insignificant compared to the thousands of cookie-jar tournaments that occur every weekend on lakes, impoundments and rivers from sea to shining sea.
What has historically made these fishing competitions so attractive is their equity. A skilled angler in an aluminum jonboat could feel confident in his chances against a guy in the finest Ranger.
But that’s no longer the case. If you can’t afford forward-facing sonar, you’re wasting your time and are donating money every time you fish a tournament.
I know one guy who has found a hump that, for whatever reason, is attractive to big fish. It’s often barren, but never stays that way for long. Fish move up onto it multiple times a day, and when they do, it’s always to feed.
This angler will spend the duration of every tournament staring at the hump on his forward-facing sonar, and whenever a fish moves up onto it, he catches it.
This isn’t fishing; it’s playing a video game, and it gives an insurmountable advantage to those who can afford the latest electronics.
Advocates say that there’s no guarantee a fish found with forward-facing sonar will bite. You still have to use your skills to fool it, fight it and get it in the boat.
That’s certainly true, but how many of those anglers would willingly give up their high-dollar electronics? If it’s not a game-changer, why does EVERY professional tournament angler use it?
Anecdotally, it seems tournament participation is down as traditional anglers realize their chances of success are greatly diminished, and that’s really bad news for the fishing industry.
I’m certainly not arguing forward-facing sonar should be banned. But tournament organizers need to recognize the overwhelming advantage the technology gives those who can afford it, and implement methods for leveling the playing field.
If they don’t, the proud and exciting weekend tournament culture in America will go the way of the cane pole.
#fishing #bassfishing #livescope
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Salt Strong (bit.ly/40PercentOffPrawns) - Sport
Well said......scope fishing is not fishing.....
A major concern should be the mortality rate of these huge bass that were previously almost untouched. I don’t think it plays much of a roll, if at all, in our south Louisiana marshes. Certainly a controversial game changer elsewhere.
If you ain’t scoping, you just hoping
In all seriousness Todd, very salient points and agree with your take wholeheartedly
MMM / Todd - I could not agree any more heavily with your take on tech in fishing. Ironically I work in IT for a living. I use fishing time to get away from the screen and regroup as a human connecting with the real world and nature to balance the zeros and ones that I deal with everyday. I don't own a boat but when I do have the opportunity to fish on a boat by invitation, I have not used any of these advanced video game style electronics. I enjoy going on the water and trying to out smart the fish - and when I do I get a sense of accomplishment. Thank you for all you do and have done for fishing in South Louisiana and the messages that extend beyond our borders.
I’m a software developer and addicted to fishing. Couldn’t agree more. You’ll never find a livescope on my boat
If I had come to any shallow water tournament angler and told them I have a new product that will move move upwards of 50% of anglers off the bank every tournament, and keep them out of your way, they would have jumped for it. The only reason this isn’t a deal they want to take now is, obviously, the new product allows them to be more efficient and find and target more quality fish. Personally, I think the number of tournaments being held is much more of degrading factor for our fisheries than live scope. If we really cared about the fish we would never put them in a live well.
It usually takes years and experience to become a great angler, nowadays it takes money.
Yep exactly
I couldn't agree more. I now turn off TV fishing tournaments because I hate watching guys staring down at the fish finder and only casting when they see a fish. It may be profitable, but it doesn't look like fun.
I hope this video goes viral. You said it perfectly.
Couldn't have said it better!
Spot on analysis!
I was in the Busch series bass fishing league years ago when I lived in Florida, and did pretty well,, but I wouldn't stand a chance against those guys today!
I can afford it but just can't bring my self to buy it. Might one day change my mind. I kind of enjoy the aspect of I have to find them my self and get them to bite. The electronics that I do have are no slouch, side, down etc... but I really only use maps partially due to lack of time spent fishing to learn electronics. As I get closer to retirement that might change. I never fish tournaments I don't have time or inclination. I take my Dad fishing more than anything else. He is to old to run boat himself, so I do all that and he just gets to drop a line in water and enjoy. Really liked this video and content.
I have one. Its sitting on the shelf in the garage.
These guys nowadays couldn’t catch em without sonar, it’s a shame
I 100% agree,I don’t have it and don’t want it,if I had to fish looking at a screen all day I’d stop fishing,i didn’t grow up fishing that way,I have seen more posts with huge fish,bass especially caught across the country than I can ever remember and there’s no doubt in my mind those are sonar fish,half those guys would quit fishing if they had to rely on skill and intuition alone,
I like this video. You are right with live scope the fishery's are getting out fish. I still use a Garmin just for water depth and temperature. Also you need to come to Bay St. Louis and fish here it is not that far from you. Keep up. The good content.
Totally agree with everything you said! The crappie population in Mississippi is getting destroyed by forward facing sonar...
It’s come down to the shooting fish in a barrel and the barrels getting smaller and smaller each day. Thanks for The video very much needed
Spot on. It's part of why bass fishing turns me off these days. It has become an arms race for who can use the best, most expensive equipment. If you don't have it, you simply can't compete. As a kayaker who likes to fish the shallow grass flats in Texas bays I have to rely on scouting, instincts, and visual clues to find the fish. Fancy fish finders are useless there. Certainly a tower boat can burn a shoreline and ruin an area, but they can't just stare at a graph and collect all the fish in a spot.
Dude….very well said!! I and my John boat agree whole heartedly!! All your years of learning bodies of water can be found first time out!! 🍻🍻🍻
I agree that the new equipment is like playing a game. I do have a gps maps with down and side scan but mostly I just use the gps because I’m not savvy enough to understand how the sonar works. I love just going out and fishing new areas. Don’t forget about all the fishing groups on Facebook we’re they ask you to tell them we’re and when you caught your fish and what bait u we’re using. Great video mr. Todd
Not a boat owner. All I do is bank fish and I have huge success because I work every inch. I agree with you about the forward facing sonar. That is not fishing. You might as well throw a cast net on them. Change the rules and make it challenging; lets make it fishing again.
I agree wholeheartedly. From a guy who currently does have a boat. It's going hurt the overall fishing stock. As for as the tournament's are concerne I feel that they shouldn't be allowed just to level the playing field.
100% agree it should be banned during tournaments. I just watched a video last night where an angler on a kayak had livescope and it wasn’t working and he didn’t catch anything. Stopped fishing and went to the hardware store to buy the electrical connection he needed and then went back fishing with the livescope and started wearing them out. Its disgusting.
Some people like to sit on the bank with a cane pole. It's clear that there is very little thought given to fishing equity.
Awesome video, and it's so true. I have no electronics on my kayak and have an old gps/sonar system on my boat because it was already installed when I bought it. I barely use the electronics on my boat and mostly just use it for depth and water temp. I would much rather go out and try to catch without using anything just from reading the water and my growing knowledge. Granted doing that doesn't make every fishing trip successful, but it is fun, and it's legitimately fishing.
I think the electronics, advanced trolling motors, and live scopes have gave fisherman advantages but not as much as hurting the fish populations. I think its the growing charter-guide industry that has put the hurt on the numbers. When a young ambitious hard driven guide goes into business and is successful, day in day out limits and limits and they promote live bait fishing also. But its 40-50+ yrs of day in day out lilits and limits do the math
Your Livescope is killing the “outdoorsman”. You can’t call yourself an outdoorsman if you use Livescope. The point of being an outdoorsman is knowing that whatever species we target, that species has a 90% chance of not falling to prey. That 10% chance that we have of taking a species and being successful is what makes us true outdoorsman. When I think of guys that use Livescope it makes me think of that Brad Paisley song that says “with your sprayed on tans and your creamy lotion y hands, you can’t grip a tackle box”. That’s the type of guy that uses a Livescope.
Love your post. Video gamers on boats aren’t professional fisherman. It take time and skill to be a consistent fisherman
Amen! Been thinking this way myself. What's next? Push a button and fish start landing in your boat? Doesn't seem far away does it!
Man I totally agree with you I am the guy in the 16th foot 1983 bass tracker3 with a 2 stroke on the back lol .
Thank you Maurice man, this is what I was thinking also. And yes I do support tournament organizations that prohibit the use of livescope during the competition.
What about trail cameras for deer hunting same difference
Me. Todd,
I 110% agree with you on the whole forward facing sonar but has its ups and downs in regards what your thoughts are. Although there is a benefit to marine tech, having to be so reliable on that does not make you a better angler, as you said. The setup on decent anglers boat such as Keith poche (I believe) or even with Devin Denman from Louisiana fishing blog, they have one graph at the bow and 1-2 graphs at the console, that’s all you need. Only benefit I have seen forward facing is when you’re crappie fishing (could be wrong). Love this video by the way
Couldn’t agree more . I’m watching guys holding fish up fish saying “they did it” when live scope did it for them.. pretty petty
Excellent, you hit the nail on the head
I get what your saying about the weekend anglers but for professional fishing….idk not one pro that I follow that doesn’t have it or can’t afford to get it so the question is if ever professional has it then is it really an advantage? Fish also aren’t 100% predictable so you can still waste tons of time scanning and fishing area where YOU THINK fish should be!
Thank you so much Marsh Man for being on board with this fight , the more people we get to fight against this issue the better chance we have of winning it
Using drones to locate fish is a similar situation.
I’ve seen it first hand on crappie fishing in particular everyone can pound brush piles all day 7 days a week 2 to 3 guys in a boat 15 per person it definitely it taking a toll
Would you use thermal night vision to locate and shoot a big whitetail buck and call it a trophy? If you do then you have abandoned the spirit of fair chase.
Same goes for livescoping fish.
I agree with banning it.
Love that you are bringing this up to get us all thinking about the future of fishing. It has similarities to the question of allowing tower boats in redfish tournaments.
Rules....Laws.... You can't put out a trap and enter the caught fish. You can't use forward facing sonar for tournaments or to fill a limit.Aint that hard.
Where would you start? Where would you end? A cane pole was top advantage technology at one time. What about popping corks and death grip jig heads. We gonna be catching fish with our teeth like grizzlies!!!!!
Not sure if I agree. The pros don’t seem to do any better or worse. I think it will certainly make some fishermen lazy, but those who have honed their craft for years are still going to use good old fashioned know how to actually catch fish…..on the fence
While you are sitting on the fence pay close attention to the meat hunters at the cleaning stations putting their knives to limits of big bass..crappie..walleye..and every other edible fish in our fisheries. Ever see someone catch a 12 pound largemouth and cut it up for dinner? You'll see plenty of it now my friend. .and it should turn your stomach and help you off the fence.
Very well said Sir
wonder if that's what the old heads said when 2d came out or paper graphs even the flasher .. 😊
Like every piece of equipment.. takes time and skill, the ones crying are the ones that dont have it. Is not as easy as everyone thinks or this videos on youtube make it seem.. i got mine been out 4 times im yet to see a strike on screen.. is like riding a horse chasing a deer and trying to shoot it but you are able to look thru keyhole i swear!! Not easy.. but helps get and idea of their behavior like i leaned fish adapt they hear your sonar and they bolt ! I see them get spooked so i dont fear for the future nature adapts
You are right
I got buddies that can’t fish with a tiller handle trolling motor!
Fishing is becoming nothing more than a high tech video game. I was raised to look for clear water, stumps, weed beds, drop offs, baitfish, birds, etc. To look at a screen all day seems to be kind of pathetic. You can stay home and do that!
Well said Todd. I think you make a great argument of the technology making us bad stewards which is really what it’s about. But further, outdoorsmen 2 generations ago were sportsmen. A lot of the innovations of today diminish the sport side of it.
Been saying the need to ban live scope from tournaments
I suggest that tournaments seasons are divided into 3rds.The first one is forward facing sonar, the second one is 2D sonar,and the last third is no electronics at all.
I watch your videos and learn a lot from them. I disagree with some of your political comments BUT, I am in agreement 100% with this video as you expressed fishing problems and clearly are on point. Now comment on the crazy ass DWF and the pogie boats.
Good topic - keep posting good conent.
Love watching your videos I’m fine south Louisiana as-well around the same part you are form would love to go on a trip with you, keep up the good videos
Arizona Game and Fish have outlawed the use of trail cameras for the purpose of taking game. I would like to see forward facing fish finders meet the same fate. Fishing should be about you and the fish. Not you and your electronic army vs the fish.
Well said!
Like so many things that evolve to an extreme there will be negative consequences that impact those that didn’t participate in the extremism….hard to find anything that’s pure………….
Yeah you right! It’s about time people start realizing where this is heading, and what’s it’s doing to the sport of fishing. It has turned it from fishing to catching and taken away the sport aspect.
I wish there was a love button and not just a like button. This needs to be shared over every platform mr Todd
I agree 💯
Cannot agree more. The beauty of fishing has always been the rush of figuring things out. You may not even be paying attention and BOOM, the rod is about to be ripped out of your hands. I don't fish tournaments, that's not what I'm about, so I can't speak to the pressures those guys face. But, for an enthusiast like myself, no electronics will ever compare to the joy of finding the fish on my own.
Your a good man ✌️❤️appreciate you.
I live 200 miles from saltwater. And would rather fish it. Everyone stares at their livescope up here. I never see anyone use it in saltwater. Why ?
I believe the reason is because there are so many other species in the water column, that it is probably much more difficult to distinguish game fish.
100% agree
Absolutely agree
Totally agree
You ain’t lying…….but dang I want one 😂
It is a problem like so many other things these days
Well then the guy in the John boat just pick out a person who has live scope and follow him.
Not sure where my previous comment went-here goes try #1.Agree with your premise and often one's fish-finding capabilities is ONLY limited by budget.However,the other part of that equation happens to be what is wrong with the enterprising individual that takes the time and effort to simply install an inexpensive small depthfinder with trolling motor transducer,mounted in small water-proof plastic gun box,with 12 v rechargeable battery and use that to target and find sac a lait on a river like the T-Funky.I used to have neat lil set-up just like I described til I accidentally broke off transducer-got new Humminbird depthfinder gonna take the time and minimal effort to re-install this lil jewel and what is wrong with dat???Not nearly as effective as LiveScope but certainly lends me a neat advantage!!
Exactly right,when I started fishing 120 hp motor was top of line,fishing skills were learned from trial an error and reading up on different species,now you have boats travel over fifty miles in hour,an can travel two miles a day easy.wildlife an fish are over harvested,too much pressure on habitat.
I agree with you 100%
Watching just about any tournament has jus become boring if your watching it in “real time” you see a guy standing on the deck of his boat staring at a graph 95% of his day! Roland, Larry, Jimmy, all the Ol Gs caught giant bags with jus their knowledge, instinct, and the hard work they put in at practice.
Ok so what you think about the limits of fish in each State should it be universal limits to preserve for the future
I agree with your assessment. We don’t need to outlaw the use of technology and we certainly don’t want the Government involved. I think it’s up to the tournaments to police this.
I was introduced to Livescope from watching the ice fishing guys on youtube..Guys literally watching their jig fall on the screen and the fish taking the lure. I'm not sure how well they work in the coastal marshes I fish, but there's no question it would make it easier to find fish. I can't imagine a tournament being remotely fair to those without the tech.
Love this video and couldn't agree more! I will say if you are tagging the fish, please take the time to tag them correctly. It shouldn't be protruding so much on the fish.
MLF, BASS and other tournaments will make a change when they start loosing money due to lack of participation.
So what's the date for the inaugural MarshMan Fishing Tournament. Ha
You rock dude , thank you so much , sincerely
We call'm PEE's. Performance Enhancing Electronics. You'll get a lesser payout if used.
Life’s short enjoy it
That's why it's called fishing and not catching! Making solid points! When you can look at electronics and see fish in a barrel???
All strait facts
Do you use live scope for trout fishing?
Used to be:
1. You needed instincts and prior experience to know where fish would be AT in general.
2. You needed skill, knowledge and prior experience to know how your current conditions affected how DEEP the fish would be, even if you knew where they were at.
3. You needed prior experience to know what kind of fish will readily attack what kind of bait.
4. You needed skill and prior experience to know HOW to present and work a bait in order to draw the most strikes.
Now:
1. CZcams will easily tell you exactly what bait to use for what kind of fish, and here use my link for 15% off.
2. Sidescan will quickly and easily find you a school of fish, covering HUGE swaths of water in minutes.
3. Livescope will show you how deep they are, and show you both YOUR BAIT and THE FISH, in real time.
4. Because you can see your bait, and the fish, fully animated, it takes maybe 3-4 casts for a complete noobie to get an idea what kind of action is drawing the fish's interest.
ALL of this is done to sell more boats, more gear, more fishing licenses, et all......and just like other industries, without some regulation, they will MINE THIS HOLE DRY until entire species are wiped out. The ONLY thing even slowing the population drop is the fact that so many people in America(where so much of this is advertised, overpriced, and making people rich) are not very naturally inclined to get out of the house, get some exercise, and do the minimal work to get on the fish, still.
But the more and more people start taking to it because its becoming SO EASY, the worse it will get.
And it's attracting the WORST crowd: The crowd that wants to get on the water, grab a ton of fish quick, and get em home to clean em.... or EH.... thats a lot of work cleaning fish, I'm just gonna DUMP EM in a ditch somewhere and go catch more next week!
Even that has a money solution; as every single boat dock gets more and more littered with guides who will walk you to the fish, hand you the the right setup, tell you where to cast it, tell you how to work it, and clean all your fish for you. MAKING THEM RICH, but destroying the foundation of their own industry, while they do it.
I really enjoyed this video I had already been thinking this Thank you
I paid up for the equipment. There is without a doubt a unfair advantage. It’s close to using a sane net on crappie. And a huge advantage with bass . Especially spawning bass . The only way the (playing field could be level) probably live bait, for the John boat guys.
If it's so easy for anyone who has FFS to catch em, why did the entire field at the last BASS Open get destroyed by Ben Milliken? Id venture to say 95% of the anglers have FFS and the overwhelming majority didn't come close to catching him. If it's so easy, everyone should come in with 30 lbs.
I agree with you 100%
I got a kid fishing just by him seeing the fish on forward facing Sonar. He cast out and caught the fish. He was so thrilled. He keeps asking when we can go back. Let's face it the young generation is hooked on video games. They can relate to this.
This sounds remarkably similar to the discussions in the world of golf about equipment advances, particularly with the ball itself, not only replacing skill as the criteria for winning, but rendering courses obsolete because the ball is going too far. The USGA is talking about rolling back the distance, at least for the professionals, but I doubt the manufacturers would stand for that - they want to sell the same products the pros use to the public. Having bifrucated fishing tournaments sounds the same. This definitely sounds like a problem, but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an easy solution.
I used it for the first time 2 weeks ago. Watched a fish on the screen. Threw at her for 5 minutes and never caught it. Down and side scan are just as bad if you think this is bad. Can’t count the fish I’ve went over a hump and found and loaded the boat with. If it gets more people fishing I’m for it.
Two hundred miles per day.
I see you have a graph
Don’t knock it before you try it
I tried it...takes all the excitement out for me. I work on a computer all day and go fishing to get away from the screen.
@@rumcoke9123 you don’t have to keep your eyes glued to the screen bro you can just use it as needed so many different ways to use it u can just use it for depth as well as the where the brush piles are weed lines or drop offs are I’m not saying u have to watch your bait the whole time that’s hella boring I’m just saying get that general area on where to cast instead of lookin like the weekend angler because I’m sure u like to catch fish
Randy… is it you?
One of good things is that a lot of times they don’t have a the capacity to catch them even they know fish are there
Its almost as impactful as inshore commercial fishing or equal. I have nothing against charter captains or guides id love to be one...