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Nemesis Retaliation: Don't Back It. Or Should You FOMO...?
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- čas přidán 13. 12. 2023
- #LiegeOfGames #boardgames
I'm in the same spot you are. Trying to decide.
Here are my main key points to consider.
We're down to the final hours.
Still trying to make a decision?
Breaking down the final issues and thoughts to help you make the right decision on your crowdfunding situation.
The bottom line is: are you REALLY comfortable with the amount of information/content out there to make this large of an investment?
Thanks for watching!
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Time Stamp:
00:00 - $290 AVERAGE Current pledge
01:41 - Projects Coming So Early to Crowdfunding
- MSRP…
03:33 - FOMO w/Standees
05:31 - Expansions AREN’T necessary
09:17 - NO Rulebook…
12:10 - Remember it’s semi cooperative…
14:26 - I AM YOU AS A BACKER
16:14 - Not Black & White
17:27 - $1 or Late Pledge
Backed it, no regrets and no fomo, I just want it. It's a great looking game.
AR sundrops is very very good too
I don't own other dungeon crawlers, I love the theme, and loved the previous Nemesis games I've played but don't own them myself and only getting the Core+Xyrians+Support group. These games go for about x1.75 their campaign costs at retail in my country.
Absolutely a no-brainer to back for me.
Yeah that's what I'd do.
Well I'd also add core and sg acrylics and Untold stories but that's all I'd see myself needing
I went with the support squat and the base game. I wanted the 45$ pack but it's quite expensive 😅. My pledge +vat ended up being 150$ I did a stretch pay. The other monster pack was also interesting but for me it's not that interesting to buy for now 😂
Same here. Played Nemesis, love it, about to buy it for $200 in my country. Then, suddenly, youtube algorithm show the campaign where, for the same price, I can get it WITH stretch goals (+shipping & custom). It is more than a no brainer, this campaign give me $100 extra value for free. Talking bout being saved by the bell.
I am passing for now. 18 months from now when the pledge manager closes I’ll make my decision. No need to back now.
I have been in the hobby long enough to know what I like, which is dungeon crawlers, tower defence, combat, card mechanics, dice rolling and miniatures to paint. Sometimes I stray and buy something different e.g. Endless Winter (never played!) but Nemesis is a no brainer for me. Like Zombicide, Nemesis is a going to be a constant in my playtime.
As a big fan of Nemesis, it was hard to justify not buying this one, but I don't really see the point. I only played Lockdown a few times. And I'd still be happy to go back and play the original any time, especially with expansions. I also have a ton of other dungeon crawlers. And my current Nemesis collection fits perfectly in one shelf! If I bought Retaliation, I'd have nowhere to put it...
I pledged a $1, thats my new AR strategy now.
You don’t need to pledge $1 for GF.
@@zenster1097 I’m somewhat aware, thanks.
First off, I LOVE your channel! Great stuff! As I usually watch your channel on the Playstation Network I can't leave comments. So, I logged here on my PC so I can leave a comment here about this subject. You don't know how hard I am fighting the FOMO on this!! Being an OCD completionist, of course I'd have to go all in on this. That's a lotta money! And with the game being at least two years out, I don't even know if I'll still be alive! I'm an old man! LOL!! Now, let's take a deeper look, I backed the first 2 games... all in pledges, of course. I've never played either game, and Lockdown is still in the original box it was fulfilled in!! So, why, oh why, would I back this one?? BUT, I am fighting the FOMO... VERY hard!! And knowing the late pledges and pledge manager will be open for months doesn't help me fight the urge! LOL!! But, after watching all your videos on FOMO, it would be absolute insanity for me to back this. Thanx for all your great videos and the good points you make in all of them. And thanx for saving me hundreds of dollars! BTW, don't worry about what others think. Just tell 'em, "Have a Coke and a smile and STFU!!" LOL!! Peace out, stay classy. I try to stay classy, but if it wasn't for low, I wouldn't have any. LOL!!
I talked myself out of this for now - just not sure a game of this type and size will regularly hit my table. I might reconsider in late pledge though!
You don't really even need a rule book... As long as they give a general overview, and/or gameplay vid to show you essentially how it plays. That is usually enough to know if it is a game for you. Have ran into like 1-2 at most ever that did not live up to my wishes, but those were mainly do to being too basic in practice even though I knew the full mechanics beforehand, rather than not something id like.
Board games in general only have the rulebook in the box as well when buying from stores. Have to go out of your way to actually get the exact rules from online. Just a general board game issue really. Crowdfunding is investing at risk, not simply buying a product, and info/completeness is usually just part of the process. The main thing is the appeal of what they are aiming for. I find that strangely not everyone even pays attention to that, which is a bit wild to me.
I needed this, still going to pledge, but only ORG Core and Retaliation Core, I was about to spend almost 85 dlls in just add-ons, and with that I can even get another game I was looking at Kickstarter, thank you for this video! new follower
Just yesterday I met a guy to sell him several games. And his first question was "could you describe briefly how to play them" after opening the boxes and saying "oh, looks cool". He didn't know at all what he was buying, didn't have any clue😂 seems like he just liked the photos of the ad I posted, and just "decided" to buy these games.
It just shows HOW some people choose games to buy. So people who need rulebooks, who know what love and what not, etc seems to be very few( maybe they'll learn their lesson one day though
Well for me both country, rules, feeling of the game and visuals.
The reason they are close to. 13mill. Is because NEMESIS, 1,2 and now 3 is a good game, people like it and better this game than spending $300 on many little games that are not good or good but bored to see on table that is only for a quick game. Nothing like a long game to go back and keep going on the experience. Sorry you will miss this awesome, and if takes until 2025, great, do not rush a masterpiece.
Only one of your videos I'm skipping entirely. I LOVE Nemesis, I'm in. Period. It's worth it and worth the hype. Even my teenage children who are pretty meh to every board game are totally excited to play this when we do. See you next video 😛
Don't own any of the previous Nemesis games, so I fomo'ed on all the new Retaliation stuff
I entered Nemesis Retaliation with $303 and I am very happy, and that is not counting the shipping and I live in Costa Rica, for me it is cheaper and I prefer to wait, there are almost no good board games here, like in their countries, because in my country everything is worth double or triple what it is worth in the United States and Europe, and I literally paid almost $300 to bring Mage Knight Definitive Edition from Spain.
I managed to get rid of Fomo addiction by simply having the philosophy “I can’t miss something I never had”.
As far as this game is concerned, I already have Nemesis and didn’t see anything in this to make me think I needed it. Didn’t really care about the horde mechanic or the modular board so was easy to just pass.
Kingdom Death did $12 million just behind Frosthaven.
Personally I love Nemesis. We play it a tonne. I went all in on the new stuff and even bought some rare and collectable stuff for the old version. I can't wait.
The wait is indeed long, and I agree it shouldn't take that long. But whatever.
But what I really took away from this is: Chris you need to put some wear and tear on Lockdown. Get into mate.
This is my first Nemisis and ya im super excited as well especially when I found out there was a full coop mode.
I didn't have Lords of Hellas, so I went in HARD for Lords of Ragnarok. Take the base game of Lords of Hellas and improve on the experience? How could Lords of Ragnarok fail? Welp.... it seems to be a worse game. I'd trade my Raganarok for Hellas if I could. The fix for the game? Play LoR with the LoH rules. There is a risk of Retaliation being worse than the other Nemesis games. Especially since we don't have a rule book.
Chris - I'd like to draw attention that AR has been within their estimated timeslines lately. Tainted Grail is on time.
A Flip perspective. I have 0 interest in OG Nem and Lockdown. So not everyone is in the same camp of do you need more?
I remember saying "man this game would be awesome with Kick ass marines with aliens sprinkled with OG Nem mechanics".
Hate the tiles.
Love the new character boards.
Hate the tiny minis, although i get more have to fit on the board.
Hate the fact they have an alternative queen mini that fits the theme so much better, but you have to pay for it.
Hate that you have to buy the acrylic tokens for the main game, stretch goals, and add ons.
Soooo... I went all in Sundrop 😂🤣
What you say about backing at a lower level (be that core pledge, or even just a dollar) makes absolute financial sense, especially when there is zero chance that the project will fail to fund / won't get made.
So why do people back at such high levels? I'm not sure as I'm never one of them, but perhaps:
- Wanting to spend time making a single decision in the campaign, rather than having to review that later in the pledge manager
- Being so excited by the content, that it all accidentally topples into their basket
- They use it as a way of knowing what they are already feeling emotionally committed to, and hence avoiding a situation where they have to choose to go for lower pledges on 2-3 games, because by going in low, they've found themselves 'bought into' too many projects.
FWIW I had similar uncertainty about ISS vanguard, to the degree I didn't back at all during the campaign, but I did follow the project post campaign, and the subsequent updates / details / changes did address much of my concern. The pledge manager was delayed due to these changes, so when it eventually opened, I hopped in (at a light level).
Also worth noting how AR's content has recently been mostly released into retail, to a surprising breadth (e.g. including the very niche alternative sculpts for one game). Thus backing at basic pledge level feels an even more sensible option.
Personally I'm not backing it, but know others who will, and will happily play it with them. I suspect it will be the most popular of the trilogy, and they'll enjoy what they get.
i honestly do not think this will be cheaper at retail. OG Nemesis is consistently over $100 or out of stock, and that doesn't include stretch goals. same for Lockdown. when crowdfunding you pay more for shipping, but you get the stretch goals included in the base game pledge price. expansions might be a little cheaper in retail, but again, voidseeders and carnomorphs were frequently out of stock. personally, i don't mind paying a few extra bucks that go directly into AW's pockets to (mostly) guarantee my games are shipped in solid packaging. obviously i could be wrong about any part of that, but i'm okay paying a big chunk of $ now and getting everything at once in 2025 or whenever.
I had the FOMO but have cancelled the pledge. Too much money for a game that will be hard for me to get to the table. Would love to have the original game too but I'm holding strong and resisting.
Original actually has the best price ever, I doubt you get it for less if you're planning to
I always wanted nemesis so I did stretch pay and bought the whole enchilada. I paint so I can paint my own just fine.
I discovered your channel a couple of weeks ago. I was so proud of myself as I was able to resist backing up projects... until two hours before the end of the "Nemesis Retaliation" campaign. I ended up backing up the original Nemesis to fill that big void in my soul 😄Hope to do better next time.
I know the pain. Agonizing until the last minute with backing.
As an owner of the previous 2 all ins. I never played any of the expansions. Never saw the point. 1st game is my most tabled, lockdown never replaced the original. Hard pass on another version of the same thing in my opinion.
The game looks great. But yeah the long wait time is what killed it for me. I don't mind paying a little extra when it hits retail stores.
No standees for expansions due too few interested in the standee version... currently just 1400 people out of almost 39000 backers has picked the standee version, so totally understand why.
3.5%?
Yeah people are more loud about standee versions and they never sell more than 10%.
At least sleevers are like 25%
The sell money comment alone warrants a like. ❤ I'm not a backer, I'd choose Space Hulk if I want to battle aliens on a spaceship or whatever.
Well Chris...Did you back this badboy? I did. It will be my first Nemisis game so I took the plunge.
Been looking at OG for a while and this was best price for it. Grabbed the trilogy and gameplay items - new monsters, heroes, stories and promo cards. Left out all the bling - terrain acrylic variants mats etc.
I've been following this campaing, going back and forth from 1$ to gameplay all in. Meanwhile, I bought Nemesis (1) retail because eventhough I've played it, I didnt own it. And finally I've left the pledge at $1, just because I think that this is the same game experience than Nemesis is providing, is more of the same, like a Zombiecide game, I own only one of it, I dont have the space or time to have it all. And I wouldnt like to "waste" my game space on the same game repeated over and over....
Well said, FOMO is a big issue, I have both Nemesis and Lockdown because of FOMO, Play maybe 2x a year, limited shelf space, Is it right for me? No. but I have backed games almost ALL IN and never regretted it even without looking at the rulebook, (Here's looking at you Castles Of Burgundy). but lesson learned : never again without a rulebook.😀
Skipped this one…might take a look in the pledge manager
I am doing the payment plans on it. Yes it’s still a lot, but it is much cheaper than the aftermarket. Aftermath was at about $300 (originally a stretch goal, and now $27 in this campaign) now it’s about $100.
I only just recently bought nemesis but I’m sure I can sell it off once we get closer towards the release.
I only own like 5 board games (with one of them being a big board game, ankh with the stretch goals and one expansion) I am about to get ISS vanguard (late pledge but only got this current wave) so I’m sure I’ll end up playing all of them here and there.
So, I am a huge fan of Nemesis and Nemesis Lockdown. I will admit I am not crazy about retaliation since they changed it so much.
Though I kept reading up on it I started to come around. I still like horror more than action, like this feels more like Dead Space 3 compared to 1 and 2 but I still wanted to complete my Nemesis collection.
I keep seeing people say that awaken realms has the best miniatures but that's completely not true. I had a chance to check out minis from Tainted Grail and Nemesis Lockdown and while the designs are fantastic, the detail of the actual miniatures is bad. chunky, unfinished looking details. some of the minis are pretty good but some of them are just terrible. you'd get better detail from those rubbery wizkids minis. CMON minis are way better from what ive seen in person (Bloodborne, Zomicide Invader and Cthulhu DMD). And not to mention Archon Studios who have even better minis than CMON, though you have to assemble them. and of course nobody compares to games workshop. its maybe not even fair to throw GW into the comparison.
Archon have produced good miniatures for a while, although their games weren't always great. Minis for LOAD, AVP and Vanguard of War were all excellent and most of their minis were pre-assembled.
I really like Oathsworn minis from Shadowborne games. The material feels better than any CMON stuff I've played.
I backed the main pledge with minis and playmat only. No need for any addons except maybe the two marines. Stayed under $200
It is pretty interesting seeing over 40k people jump on with no rulebook to review. On the flip-side, maybe that's a credit to AR's established workproduct.
I'm curious why you feel that the acrylic components aren't a good idea for standee backers?
As far as the 17 month estimate goes- it is a long time, but AR has at least got closer to meeting the estimate on the longer campaigns. U-Boot is really just a re-print, with a resin model, it also has a 16 month estimate.
I've been an active playtester in another campaign. A number of rules were developed and refined while the campaign was live, and even when the game was delivered there were pretty significant rule changes. (They delivered early).
Well ok did draw the line at a plush cat and the cat minis (that weren't included for free). For the most part though I backed everything else. I'm just not really a cat person. Also turned down the cat stuff for Etherfields expansion too. But I'm not going to break a series up by resisting this one. That said I have picked and chosen Zombicide themes but this line seemed to be a story arc so I'll carry it to completion. I know that backing the Acrylic token upgrades will "break" a couple of near perfect 3d inserts I have for the original games. Not sure what I will do about that but I have some other drawers I can just utilize for those upgrades and if I remember to bring them out I can upgrade them when desired. (Or I can obtain a new or updated insert that does handle them).
They put stupid things in their to make you think you made a good decision by not backing them to justify everything else
I'm not sure if you are aware but the acrylics packs are just a replacement for the tokens, not the standees/miniatures
Was interested in this version and backed at $65 and will likely get a $17 expansion. With the stretch goals, feels like a decent value for me.
Haven’t backed the others. What I gathered from others who played both, is you don’t need The original or lockdown. You choose one. This one is more combat oriented than horror. You could have 2. Retaliation and whichever one of the other2. Or just one. I think you only need 1.
I already went all in and some to flesh out my collection from the first two, so it’s too late for me, but I wanted to point out that the neoprene playmat doednt even replace a board in this game as there isn’t one to replace, so maybe you can save your 30ish bucks if that’s not of interest to you.
Did not back. Maybe I’ll buy once it hits retail/secondary. But I don’t want to commit for 18-24 months. I loved what Salt and Pepper did for Battle of Versailles. 2-3 months. I get it’s a totally different scale and a much cheaper game. So I will back simple games like S&P or the likes and will wait to buy the epic big box when they eventually hit retail.
The all in for everything every expansion etc in sundrop acrylics, playmats promos etc costs about $1,200 lol I was kicking it around for the last few weeks as it counted down even today when it had a couple min left and just could not see myself playing the game for what I'm paying. I have core space, amazing game fills that itch but I also have zombicide, reich busters etc so I don't need more stealth crawlers and so on.
I think waiting for the late pledge is so underrated. Inflation goes up and the cost of the campaign will remain the same, as with all Awaken Realms games. You basically buy it cheaper 2 years down the line. On top of seeing an actual rulebook of some sorts.
$299 gives you stretch pay options @ $34 per month vs. $299 all in in one shot during late pledge... that's the only advanatge... if it were for STretch Pay, I'd agree with you 2000% and it is what I did in the past. Make no mistake Stretch Pay I think play a ***HUGE*** part in driving up the pledges that people made... at least IMHO...! :)
I really like Nemesis lockdown. My friend going in on this one with me made it a easy choice. Hope its great.
Thank you awaken realms for accepting my money. Cu in a year and a half
No. Standees are only for the base pledge and alternative queen. It replaces. You don’t get an extra queen.
Went with the veteran pledge and I’d pay more happily if they would start manufacturing in America . 👍
So, you're saying you're going to go all in.
Where are those games you are selling listed?
Nemisis i got after the ks at a discount from a local store. I really like the theme and love awaken games but passed on the original ks. Since i only get to the table a few times. So i backed the extra characters for this ks that scalpers sell at crazy prices for the original. If the new game is fun I'll pick it up at the local store, also I figured alien is original and the latter is more like aliens resurrection for shooting and fighting.
Have Nemesis so decided I will just get bits for that. New game is still too similar enough to justify it.
Nobody also pays shipping, taxes not included either. Comparisons against MSRP even if it was a thing are meaningless anyway
20 in shipping and another 20% over the total...yeah no thanks. That's from 109 to 160, "save 65". more like pay 50 more to even get it in the first place
Also, backer number is just shy of what lockdown had. Revenue is just higher because of all the unneeded bling and people are falling for it and prices went up.
I mean, I agree that games should be later in development. But I think you’re going too far. If you want to know exactly a game and how it plays, you go retail. KS, by its nature, is going to have some things vague and not fleshed out. You're helping to fund the development of a product. Not a finished product. I think you have a valid point for faster turnaround and later stages of development but this idea of knowing how “everything works?” Nah. I’m holding off. But I’ll get the special mini version, alternative queen, and mini-campaign. Maybe the Sanguinors or whatever they’re called. I don’t need everything.
This video filled the hole in my heart.
I'd like a more streamlined Nemisis experience but this one really didn't inspire me...admittedly I really need to love a game to get it at this point, but idk...don't even enjoy seeing it played.
Have you backed Chris?
i didnt get any of the new races lol Lets be honest here most ppl wont really play thew new races. Too much time to set it up.
I havent even received my ISS vanguard pledge lmao
I really wanna FOMO, but luckily I don't have the cash in my pocket throw away on this.
Nemesis lockdown was an experience in trying to have fun that just didn't work. Hard pass no matter what the "deal" is.
2025. That’s ridiculous. Just wait for it to come out on retail and will know by then if it’s any good or not then go buy a retail copy I’m so done with Kickstarter these days.
Imagine making money online by complaining a game company is making money …
Looks better than frost haven though and lame video bro. Lots of hyperbole and fear bating.
It just goes to show people do not have money troubles when you can waste it on this ball of plastic. Thats facetious of course but this whole hobby is spinning down a drain...
Bro, lighten up
1. Nemesis isnt a good game