I’ve ridden Routt 45 for 2 years. Once Ingot things dialed in, I absolutely and genuinely appreciate the quality of the production process and the resulting ride. I had not ever considered the comment about forever geometry, valid point, but at my point in life, I’ll enjoy this ride for a very long time.
Moots bikes, you are definitely paying a premium for some of the best craftsmanship, sickest welds and nicest titanium on the market. Not sure moots is the best ride or ever has been, but they do seem built for the kind of riding you would do in and around steamboat springs, and Colorado in general, kind of like how transition or evil bikes really are built to thrive on Bellingham trails, and while the virtues translate well to other areas, it’s never quite optimized for somewhere else. I’ve been to the moots factory and it’s a cool spot, not sure if it’s a bike for me and my kind of riding in my area. Like politics, all builds are local.
Moots is the Porsche of bikes. Best quality but a premium for the name. I love their frame called Why Be Beat -WBB that features an elatormer shock absorber on the rear trinangle. Many Ti frames out there for half the price. And as much as I love the look of polished Ti, a steel frame will come in very close in weight - a pound or two, of Ti.
@@cjohnson3836 want to Germany a little over a decade ago. Guy living there who was showing us around (he was a business contact, not a tour guide or anything) said if you wanted to be taken seriously you drive a German car, even if it’s a VW Golf instead of a foreign brand. He loved American muscle but for meetings took his Audi. That sentiment may have changed since then, but Germany was significantly more nationalistic less than two decades ago.
@@cjohnson3836 so you dont know by whom made this "Made in Germany" trademark ?🙄 and what their intentions were when they labeled it on German products.
Nice review for an unusual bike. Moots are dream bikes… for life. But like you said - do you want the same geometry for life!? Great question. I’ve purchased a couple of “bikes for life”, in my life. And they never turn out to be that. Too much innovation always happening. So a moots road bike? Yeah. A moots gravel bike? Maybe. But a moots monster gravel bikepacking bike? Naaa. Too nichey. Too expensive. But sure is pretty. Except for those bars. ; )
$10k ouch!!! I have a $2k canyon grail AL would I love a TI sure; is it 5xs better than what i already have? oh hell no. If Moots cannot do a sub $6k version, look but don’t touch it’s not a value
There will always be room for the best. I was told this years ago and it still stands. American made, American sourced, perhaps the best frame material ever produced and let's admit it a boat load of cachet. Moots is a premium company that make premium bikes...at a premium. That said if you have it and you want it then get it. No judgment from this end.
Great review!!! Not sure about the ESC model. I think a regular Routt 45 would be more lively and more responsive. I'm surprised Moots can't or doesn't want to build their own titanium fork, given that they're the guru in titanium fabrication. Even though they claim their titanium is 100% American sourced, I believe that Bearclaw titanium fork is from Asia! Keep up the awesome reportage.
I am sending this request in for a second time as think you can shed some light on Moots Route ESC vs. Salsa Cutthroat. How do you find each bike for bike backpacking and some possible touring? Mainly gravel or a bit chunkier, but not difficult single-track. Really interested in long day comfort and ask you to not consider price! Also, did you ride an M or L? I would be looking at the next model up - no heavy aluminum parts and fitted with ENVE. Let me know your thoughts if you would.
Sorry Dave, so many comments it's hard to keep up with them all. I think you would be happier with the Cutthroat. More versatile, handles weight better, and also offers a more fun ride when unloaded. The Moots is an interesting ride, its basically a big volume gravel bike, where as the Cutty is more drop bar mountain bike. There are lots of other options that can be found here: bikepacking.com/index/drop-bar-mountain-bikes-29er/ Two more options i really like are the Tumbleweed Stargazer and the Otso Fenrir.
I've never been to Steamboat. So I've never been to the factory. I'd love to own a Moots. My expectation if I did purchase a frame would be that I would have a premium buying and customer service experience to go with that purchase. Can any current Moots owners comment on their buying experience?
I’m the proud owner of a Moots MootoX RSL since 2019. It’s the nicest bike I’ve ever owned and is versatile enough to race XCM, gravel and anything else short of enduro/downhill. My dealer (a multiple Moots owner) is great and we had an assembly party at his shop when I picked it up. I’ll never forget the first time I saw my frame. Not trying to sound corny, but it was a special moment that I had worked very hard to achieve and they made it feel that way. Owning a Moots has been a great experience because the bike is great but also because the people involved are detail oriented and care. I have met and know many of the Moots staff and they are knowledgeable, helpful and just nice people in general. Every other owner I meet has been an instant friend. Highly recommended!
I have been fortunate enough to buy two Moots bikes from Plum Grove Cycling in Leesburg, VA. A Routt45 and a Vamoots CRD. Love both bikes and the dealer that sold and services them. Plum Grove is a good full service bike shop in a medium sized space. Not flashy and modern. But a place where they know you and they have very strong bike wrenching skills. The experience buying and getting my Moots’s serviced has been A+.
So it seems somewhere between a bearclaw thunder-hawk and a baux jackson. I'm of the opinion that if you're doing a 2.2in+ build the geo should also be more mountain bike-y. Half of the field of the Tour Divide are riding Cutthroats for a reason.
Ive debated selling my Fargo for a Baux Jax since the geometry is just a few mil off from my Jamis Renegade but damn I love the Grey/Silver the 2017 Fargo came in, one day...
Just not feeling it, I’d rather have a Trek Checkpoint or buy the bear claw fork and put it on a old Marlin frame. 10k sorry never gonna happen, the average person can not afford these things but clearly Moots has no problems selling bikes. Bikes that are clearly not for the average person who unfortunately doesn’t make a ton of money.
In today’s world I think it wise to consider theft. Just a few days ago a bikepacker riding the xwa race ran into a Safeway and brought his bike inside to restock up on food and such and his bike got stolen. Lucky he recovered it missing a few items and the SPOT helped track it. But the point is loosing 10.5k for a bike to me would be a huge hit if stolen or robbed. If money is no issues then sure. For most of us that’s not the case. Just my opinion.
I agree. but even half the price is just a s bad if stolen and even a $1000 bike loaded with all your gear on the great divide trail is also just as bad....
Yeah, that would be devastating. It always is but that would just be such a blow. I think you just have to become that person who's wheeling the bike around in the grocery store and just generally never let it out of your sight. That or travel in groups so there can always be someone with the bikes of course.
For that sort of money I'd like to ride a bike that feels good "out of the box." Also I have no interest in bar end shifters. They're so annoying! Especially when you're riding somewhere technical and you might need to shift constantly. I'm also a little skeptical of any frame marketed as a "forever bike."
Moots and Mason Cycles would be my first choices if i was to waste money... i'm just a regular rider so those bikes are too expensive. i have a Kona Sutra ltd 2022, super happy with it and, for me, wasn't cheap (2.200€ euros) this would be the maximum value to pay for a bike
I understand the no compromise position in mfg and the premium price that commands. Think Rolex versus Timex. But, this bike has too many compromises in my opinion starting with the minimal tire clearance at the back. You didn’t mention it but also looked like limited space between the fork crown and tire on the front end. At that price, it better be perfect!
I’ve owned two Lynskeys (Road and mtb) and currently owned a Moots (Baxter). The Lynskeys were nice, but Moots is in another category based on comfort, ride quality and craftsmanship. Obviously, the price is in another category as well, but everyone has to decide if it’s worth it or not. I’m glad there are lots of options out there to choose from.
Here in Korea you see a ton of these Moots bikes decked out in XTR on the paved bike trails by the rivers in Seoul. So my impression of Moots is the brand exists so dentists can engage in conspicuous consumption. It's not fair, but it's not a brand I would ever ride.
Simple answer - No. Really hard to justify that kind of money with all the dents, dings, and scrapes that come along with bikepacking...unless you have a well watered money tree in your backyard.
Super overpriced imo and i have 2 ti bikes, a 99 26er mtb and an 06 road bike. Love the material but long ago a guy had his moots seatpost crack and he posted a pic of it on our local bike forum. We promptly got a letter from moots legal to take it down or else. Moots is strangely not as popular in our area anymore.
“ Is this bike worth the money?“ Is a different question than “is this bike in my budget?“ for me, the answers are probably yes and definitely definitely no.
Have You ever had at least partially bad review and left at that? Because again I hear that old tired bike media hot air - bike is too flexy in the first half of the video, but then suddenly it's "efficient for long hours in saddle". Make up your mind without weird mental gymnastics, dude! I can understand not wanting to upset daddy Moots, but calling it a "review" is misleading.
I’ve ridden Routt 45 for 2 years. Once Ingot things dialed in, I absolutely and genuinely appreciate the quality of the production process and the resulting ride. I had not ever considered the comment about forever geometry, valid point, but at my point in life, I’ll enjoy this ride for a very long time.
Moots bikes, you are definitely paying a premium for some of the best craftsmanship, sickest welds and nicest titanium on the market. Not sure moots is the best ride or ever has been, but they do seem built for the kind of riding you would do in and around steamboat springs, and Colorado in general, kind of like how transition or evil bikes really are built to thrive on Bellingham trails, and while the virtues translate well to other areas, it’s never quite optimized for somewhere else.
I’ve been to the moots factory and it’s a cool spot, not sure if it’s a bike for me and my kind of riding in my area. Like politics, all builds are local.
Forever geometry is a good call-out. Not sure I'm down for that.
This video is supported in part by Teravail Tires. To learn more about Teravail Tires, check out this link: teravail.com/blogs/resources?.com&
Moots is the Porsche of bikes. Best quality but a premium for the name. I love their frame called Why Be Beat -WBB that features an elatormer shock absorber on the rear trinangle. Many Ti frames out there for half the price. And as much as I love the look of polished Ti, a steel frame will come in very close in weight - a pound or two, of Ti.
So why does American made cost twice German made in this case? Are American made cars better made than Porsche?
@@faz723 Does "German Made" produce the same nationalist consumerism response in Germany as "American made" does in the US? That's a legit question.
@@cjohnson3836 want to Germany a little over a decade ago. Guy living there who was showing us around (he was a business contact, not a tour guide or anything) said if you wanted to be taken seriously you drive a German car, even if it’s a VW Golf instead of a foreign brand. He loved American muscle but for meetings took his Audi. That sentiment may have changed since then, but Germany was significantly more nationalistic less than two decades ago.
It's YBB not WBB, and the shock is a coil, not elastomer.
@@cjohnson3836 so you dont know by whom made this "Made in Germany" trademark ?🙄 and what their intentions were when they labeled it on German products.
Nice review for an unusual bike. Moots are dream bikes… for life. But like you said - do you want the same geometry for life!? Great question. I’ve purchased a couple of “bikes for life”, in my life. And they never turn out to be that. Too much innovation always happening. So a moots road bike? Yeah. A moots gravel bike? Maybe. But a moots monster gravel bikepacking bike? Naaa. Too nichey. Too expensive. But sure is pretty. Except for those bars. ; )
best part about the bike... EXTERNAL CABLE ROUTING!!!
Taking delivery of my routt 45 next month. Can’t wait!
This bike needs the UDH to that it can be fitted with SRAM Transmission. Perfect for this bike. Moots has it on the Routt CRD. Time to update the ESC.
$10k ouch!!! I have a $2k canyon grail AL would I love a TI sure; is it 5xs better than what i already have? oh hell no. If Moots cannot do a sub $6k version, look but don’t touch it’s not a value
There will always be room for the best. I was told this years ago and it still stands. American made, American sourced, perhaps the best frame material ever produced and let's admit it a boat load of cachet. Moots is a premium company that make premium bikes...at a premium. That said if you have it and you want it then get it. No judgment from this end.
Great review!!! Not sure about the ESC model. I think a regular Routt 45 would be more lively and more responsive. I'm surprised Moots can't or doesn't want to build their own titanium fork, given that they're the guru in titanium fabrication. Even though they claim their titanium is 100% American sourced, I believe that Bearclaw titanium fork is from Asia! Keep up the awesome reportage.
Sadly.. Here in the Philippines, I've only seen one bearclaw thunder hawk and it had to be source from the US...
kinda cool bike, ridiculous price. Also ironic they 'refuse to compromise' and then compromised on the fork. Good video and information!
I am sending this request in for a second time as think you can shed some light on Moots Route ESC vs. Salsa Cutthroat. How do you find each bike for bike backpacking and some possible touring? Mainly gravel or a bit chunkier, but not difficult single-track. Really interested in long day comfort and ask you to not consider price! Also, did you ride an M or L? I would be looking at the next model up - no heavy aluminum parts and fitted with ENVE. Let me know your thoughts if you would.
Sorry Dave, so many comments it's hard to keep up with them all. I think you would be happier with the Cutthroat. More versatile, handles weight better, and also offers a more fun ride when unloaded. The Moots is an interesting ride, its basically a big volume gravel bike, where as the Cutty is more drop bar mountain bike. There are lots of other options that can be found here: bikepacking.com/index/drop-bar-mountain-bikes-29er/
Two more options i really like are the Tumbleweed Stargazer and the Otso Fenrir.
I've never been to Steamboat. So I've never been to the factory. I'd love to own a Moots. My expectation if I did purchase a frame would be that I would have a premium buying and customer service experience to go with that purchase. Can any current Moots owners comment on their buying experience?
Very good customer service, and they have very good dealers.
I’m the proud owner of a Moots MootoX RSL since 2019. It’s the nicest bike I’ve ever owned and is versatile enough to race XCM, gravel and anything else short of enduro/downhill. My dealer (a multiple Moots owner) is great and we had an assembly party at his shop when I picked it up. I’ll never forget the first time I saw my frame. Not trying to sound corny, but it was a special moment that I had worked very hard to achieve and they made it feel that way.
Owning a Moots has been a great experience because the bike is great but also because the people involved are detail oriented and care. I have met and know many of the Moots staff and they are knowledgeable, helpful and just nice people in general. Every other owner I meet has been an instant friend.
Highly recommended!
I have been fortunate enough to buy two Moots bikes from Plum Grove Cycling in Leesburg, VA. A Routt45 and a Vamoots CRD. Love both bikes and the dealer that sold and services them. Plum Grove is a good full service bike shop in a medium sized space. Not flashy and modern. But a place where they know you and they have very strong bike wrenching skills. The experience buying and getting my Moots’s serviced has been A+.
10K? Definitely not! Especially after this review!
very nice bike but i would change the bars to make it perfect for me, Moloko bars would be great, thanks Neil
10k and you need to upgrade the wheels to make it feel snappy? Did I hear that right?
So it seems somewhere between a bearclaw thunder-hawk and a baux jackson. I'm of the opinion that if you're doing a 2.2in+ build the geo should also be more mountain bike-y. Half of the field of the Tour Divide are riding Cutthroats for a reason.
Ive debated selling my Fargo for a Baux Jax since the geometry is just a few mil off from my Jamis Renegade but damn I love the Grey/Silver the 2017 Fargo came in, one day...
I love my titanium 29+ built around Muru Mugo frame with Schwalbe Big Ones on carbon wheels for gravel, weighing in at just under 20lbs.
Just not feeling it, I’d rather have a Trek Checkpoint or buy the bear claw fork and put it on a old Marlin frame. 10k sorry never gonna happen, the average person can not afford these things but clearly Moots has no problems selling bikes. Bikes that are clearly not for the average person who unfortunately doesn’t make a ton of money.
Tu as la référence du porte bagage 6:35🤔..? Merçi par avance pour ton retour Sportivement Frank 👍
Il s'agit d'un porte-bagage tailfin. (tailfin point cc)
What tires are on the i9 wheels?
In today’s world I think it wise to consider theft. Just a few days ago a bikepacker riding the xwa race ran into a Safeway and brought his bike inside to restock up on food and such and his bike got stolen. Lucky he recovered it missing a few items and the SPOT helped track it. But the point is loosing 10.5k for a bike to me would be a huge hit if stolen or robbed. If money is no issues then sure. For most of us that’s not the case. Just my opinion.
I agree. but even half the price is just a s bad if stolen and even a $1000 bike loaded with all your gear on the great divide trail is also just as bad....
Yeah, that would be devastating. It always is but that would just be such a blow. I think you just have to become that person who's wheeling the bike around in the grocery store and just generally never let it out of your sight. That or travel in groups so there can always be someone with the bikes of course.
@@NkB984 I agree
@@NkB984 word
Ten five for that? No way. Personally, now days, I keep a bike around maybe 2 years
For that sort of money I'd like to ride a bike that feels good "out of the box." Also I have no interest in bar end shifters. They're so annoying! Especially when you're riding somewhere technical and you might need to shift constantly.
I'm also a little skeptical of any frame marketed as a "forever bike."
It’s a gimmick bike for gullible rich people
Moots and Mason Cycles would be my first choices if i was to waste money... i'm just a regular rider so those bikes are too expensive. i have a Kona Sutra ltd 2022, super happy with it and, for me, wasn't cheap (2.200€ euros) this would be the maximum value to pay for a bike
A 10k bike is stupid for bike-packing . I’d never fall asleep if I had a 10k bike outside my tent
@Art of Hookie you don't live in the UK our little island is full of people everywhere.
I understand the no compromise position in mfg and the premium price that commands. Think Rolex versus Timex. But, this bike has too many compromises in my opinion starting with the minimal tire clearance at the back. You didn’t mention it but also looked like limited space between the fork crown and tire on the front end. At that price, it better be perfect!
$5000 bike plus $5000 name. Same as Lynskey. Nice, but definitely overpriced for what it is, especially with basic components. Ritchey for the win :-)
I’ve owned two Lynskeys (Road and mtb) and currently owned a Moots (Baxter). The Lynskeys were nice, but Moots is in another category based on comfort, ride quality and craftsmanship. Obviously, the price is in another category as well, but everyone has to decide if it’s worth it or not. I’m glad there are lots of options out there to choose from.
Aren't Lynskeys supposed to be reasonably priced?
Ummmm for 10k no
I need A long tail 26in wheel bike 🚴🏽
With shopping cart body 🛒 in the middle
Here in Korea you see a ton of these Moots bikes decked out in XTR on the paved bike trails by the rivers in Seoul. So my impression of Moots is the brand exists so dentists can engage in conspicuous consumption. It's not fair, but it's not a brand I would ever ride.
LOL - put drops on a Surly Ogre and save yourself $8000+
I almost did that!! But got a Fargo instead lol
It's all about performance, this bike needs to step it up quit abit more
$10 grand is way too rich even for a titanium.
Simple answer - No. Really hard to justify that kind of money with all the dents, dings, and scrapes that come along with bikepacking...unless you have a well watered money tree in your backyard.
Seems overkill. Ill take my lynskey
Just eye candy, nice to stop and look at and move on.
Bike manufacturers taking the piss again
Super overpriced imo and i have 2 ti bikes, a 99 26er mtb and an 06 road bike. Love the material but long ago a guy had his moots seatpost crack and he posted a pic of it on our local bike forum. We promptly got a letter from moots legal to take it down or else. Moots is strangely not as popular in our area anymore.
“ Is this bike worth the money?“ Is a different question than “is this bike in my budget?“ for me, the answers are probably yes and definitely definitely no.
Nop. Il get a 2-3000€ steel bike any day
Jesus fuck it oughta be a monster for 10k.
10,000 bike looking like a 3,000 dollar bike lol
This channel isn't really about bikepacking so much as geeking out about overpriced bike gear. Should rename it Bikepacking Gear Geek. Boring, imo.
Have You ever had at least partially bad review and left at that? Because again I hear that old tired bike media hot air - bike is too flexy in the first half of the video, but then suddenly it's "efficient for long hours in saddle". Make up your mind without weird mental gymnastics, dude! I can understand not wanting to upset daddy Moots, but calling it a "review" is misleading.
hey, future meme u dont get yet, I thought I was clear here, I had to throw on carbon hoops to get it to perform the way I liked. Thanks for watching.
he didn't like the build they provided him with is all. He customized it some as if he was building it for him.
29 is not for africa and south america
People ride 29ers across both continents quite well