What Happened To Killteam 2018?
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
- This video is two years in the making, we talk about killteam both past and present. It's a surprisingly rich history in game design, narrative V competitive, and so much more. To this day killteam is still my favorite skirmish game. As always
- Hry
Thanks for all the support guys. I haven’t worked on a video in a few years so this one’s rough around the edges. If you want this to be a series I have a few vids lined up about battletech Warcry and blood bowl 🎉
Would love to see one about Warcry!
A loving retrospective. It sounds a lot like you want to play Grimdark Future Firefight by One Page Rules, which allow you to field whatever Warhammer models you have and combining two factions into one Kill Team.
Please do, a warcry video would be amazing
@@memeistersparadies1535 as of right now the script is being worked on
I got into kill team this past year so it was really cool to learn about the 1.0 game and the history of kill team as a whole. With current GW prices it genuinely feels like formats like Kill Team and Combat Patrol are the only feasible ways to get into the hobby without having to take out a second mortgage. It is nice to see a rare GW dub that they learned from their mistake with 1.0 becoming a bloated mess and setting up 2.0 as a more long term format and continuing to support the game as time goes on
Not to be the ever-present annoying 3d printing guy, but prints have helped me leaps and bounds to stay relevant in the hobby. I'm a casual player who never intends to play at an official GW event anyways, and I'm a disabled vet on a fixed income, so kitbashing 3d prints into their analogous kill team has cut a substantial amount of cost. My Kasrkin, for instance, are actually kitbashed Not-Catachans from the Spacenam line by Wargames Atlantic, and then I just added bits to denote their gear. Only cost me about $20, even with the spare bits.
I liked killteam 2018 because you could mix and match j it types for a narrative. Like a terminator veteran being reinforced by a tactical squad
Wahapedia was such a helpful tool when starting kt
Love seeing KT 2018 getting some appreciation. I really enjoyed how it incentivized you to get creative and build your own team through individual models and kitbashes, which I miss in the new edition, which pretty much just hands you the list and models having done all that work for you. Working this weekend actually to try to get a friend into old Kill Team. Here's hoping!
KT 1.0 words best with a small group (Friendhammer) and KT 2.0 is a competitive format (Trophyhammer).
Man, I miss Kill Team 2018. It gave me so many ideas for how I could kitbash cool models. At least I've still got the books and can play it if I find other people in my area.
Very interesting! Kill Team 2.0 was the reason I got into wargaming after a break of more then 20 years.
That was 1.0 for me, glad it brought you back! Skirmish games are amazing
"How far does a Guardsman move? One hexagon" *Proceeds to show a pentagon.* I guess he was right about wargames having problems with shapes. I do wish the number of sides aligned with the number of inches, like circle for 1, square for 2 (since there's no four), triangle for 3, and actually a hexagon for 6, rather than requiring people to just memorize the arbitrary mapping.
Shapes killed my family
KT21 is one of the most tightly written rulesets GW has ever made. Like when you say cover is nebulous and doesn't do much, that's a very surface level take. I accept cover in KT21 isn't _intuitive_ necessarily, but once it clicks the game opens up and it becomes _suuuuuper_ slick and really deep.
And as an aside, if you ever look at the KT21 teams and point them out in KT18, you almost always end up at the 125 point limit most elites games settled on by the end of KT18
Agreed. Cover isn't intuitive, especially regarding Obscuring, but it is VITALLY important to the game.
Agreed, great cover rules make good maneuvering much more key to success than in so many other games.
@@wtfserpico i would argue that cover is intuitive, but yeah obscure is not intuitive to a new player at all, i remember struggling myself to understand it when i was starting out
KT18 was one of my main ways I got into Warhammer. I played more KT18 than I did 8th, 9th, and 10th edition combined!
KT21 is still good rules wise when actually playing the game, but we lost out of the uniqueness everyone could have building your specific lists, from every model and weapon they are equipped with.
Nice video!!!
No, he doesn't move one Hexagon, because that would be REASONABLE. He moves one PENTAgon which is SIX inches. And dashes a SQUARE for three inches, while the TRIangle is one inch and the Square is TWO inches. Asinine.
Real
Great video! I also got into KT in 2018 and even put together a 1k Sons unit. Thank you for the dose of nostalgia!
KT18 is one of the reasons I only play non-GW games now.
It was expensive and abandoned by GW before I had a chance to paint everything and actually play it.
I play OPR, Stargrave and other non-GW games now.
Spot on. I remember one selling point of kill team 2018, besides the cool factions and terrain, was the blended rules. Movement being I go u go, then alternating activations for the rest. It was pretty awesome. I think octarius had a great rule set for sure, and it incorporated a number of things I loved about betrayal of calth, some of which I wished trickled up to 40k, but alas I just wanted to play with tanks and dreadnought.
KT 2.0 killed my local scene. It went from being able to build anything that peaked our interests into "play this pre-made team". I'm not even hating on kt 2.0, I bought almost all the boxes even without a scene to play in.
Youre saying that nobody is interested in Imperialis meanwhile every new kit basically flies off the shelves day one...
TBH a lot of those sales are to big 40K players, not Kill Team players.
I’m actually curious about that. It’s quite strange lol, it’s like Schrödinger game. I hear nothing about imperialis, yet it constantly stays sold out
@@michaeljdauben Im talking about Imperialis, not Kill Team or 40k. But saying that Kill Team kits sell well because of 40k is also wrong. Only some teams can be played in 40k, around the same number as of 40k kits that can be used in KT
Still playing KT 2018 Area. Quick to set up, get 4 rounds off and pack away. Is what started my Praetorian Guard and chaos Space marine army. Sadly to me it seems that 40k and KT seem to get worse each new release.
I’m still playing it.
As you should
This video almost killed me, legit almost had a heart attack at that scream jumpscare. 10/10 would watch again
Actually you and many people talking about kill team forget about like half the history of kill team.
Kill team began in 2004 as an intro gamemode for 40k 4th edition with narrative play in mind. You got one player playing as the kill-team which was a basic infantry squad that could be upgraded by breaking some regular limitations of the codexes, and the other playing as sentries and grunts of the opposite faction.
Later kill team was re-released in Battle Missions expansion in 2010 for 5th edition where it was a 200p gamemode with units broken into individual soldiers.
And then in 2017 you got the shadow war armageddon and the rest
I really like kill team 2.0 , teams feel very different to each other , rules are now their own thing but imo it suffer atm from "team bloat " I cant really keep track off all the new teams , faq etc.. GW as always tailors for the competitive player and sucks ass imo .
KT 1.0 even with its flaws and spam and some non sense here an there was much more oriented too the casual player and first time Warhammer 40k player . And I miss the days where you could customize your team and build a cool narrative around it .
GW has to prioritise competitive play with rules because at home you can homebrew rules to even things out.
The Intercession kill team can take both chainsword marines and bolter marines in the same team? granted there aren't many other "specialists" (basically a grenadier) but you can mix the loadouts.
Thanks for clarifying, I looked everywhere and it seemed people ran all one type
If you didn't already have them, normally you'd be stuck buying two boxes just to get intercessors and assault intercessors. Or if you're a total noob like me who had nothing, you get intercessors and the 3 assault intercessor with paints starter kit.
32:43 An Intercession team can take both standard Intercessors and Assault Intercessors, so you do get to mix & match your shooters and melee. The usual mix is an Assault Sgt with Plasma Pistol & Chainsword, Intercessor Gunner, Assault Intercessor Grenadier and either two Intercessors and one Assault Intercessor or one Intercessor and two Assault Intercessors depending on what you are going into. If you prefer you can go with an Intercessor Sgt with Power Sword & Bolt Rifle, but the basic rule is take every plasma weapon available.
GW perchance realized that a game of theirs that players rarely needed more than 10 models to play wasn't making them anywhere near the same amount of money as regular 40k decided to just quietly let it rot in the corner.
I never stopped playing KT 2018. I still don't know what Killteam 2 is. It seems like it has pre listed teams, but I don't see the appeal of not running a custom team. Being able to change fundamentally how my team functioned was half the fun. Last week you fought my Sicarians and vanguards in melee, but this week there are 4 plasma calivers ready to nuke you off the board. I won a tournament because nobody ever played against a Ravener, and couldn't decide if it was a Lictor level threat or 2 hormagaunts in a trenchcoat.
Hunter Clade (AdMech Kill Team) allows you a lot of customisation in the current KT, you are not even tied to a set number of models, depending on the composition of your team.
Kill Team 2021 is just far more balanced and tuned for competitive play compared to 2018
Played kill team 2018 extensively when it came out, really liked the min-maxing and customization you had when it came to roster building. But as time went on (and add-ons started popping up) it became that people would rather get into 40k proper than split their kits into several different miniatures that cant be used as a squad. Named character meta (like Daedaluses or UR for admech) also didnt help.
So eventually my local community went either into 40k 8th, or into necromunda. I chose the second, and played that for several years as well. A different story, though.
Currently, my 'min-maxing' fix is Infinity the game by Corvus Belli.
13:23 in actual play because the Flayed Ones were hilariously broken the Heavy Intercessors were comically out matched until an emergency nerf patch....
30:04 You say that, but Chaos Cults were monumentally potent and dominated the cometative scene post release.
Great video. Thanks 👌
Awesome video, absolutely surreal to see the meme I made about compendium win rates!
I love Kill Team 21. I have 9 Kill Teams that all feel different and are balanced in a rock>paper>scissors kind of way, although a good pilot can still win bad matchups if they play the objective better than their opponent.
Yes the cover system is difficult to grasp, but that's as much down to the way the rules are written than the actual rules themselves. I help run a newly formed group of 12 players, most of whom are brand new to the game, and I can explain the cover rules very easily to them, whereas most people end up scratching their heads if they try to read them and figure them out for themselves.
Considering how many factions still need bespoke kill teams I'm hoping that the system stays supported for at least a few more years before GW tries to pull any kind of rules revamp. I'll happily keep buying teams for this system, but if a new version were to come out and deprecate what I have already I'll just stick with what I have and call it "complete".
I kinda miss Green doge...
My best guess for the unit and weapon options for pariah nexus is that they were experimenting if and how they could use units intended for 40k in kill team
A lot of people doesn't like compendium teams, but I think they are very good entry point, because every single model in bespoke teams having special rules can be overwhelming for a new player or even when learning a new team.
kt 2018 was just so easy to get into, so easy to play coming from or going into 40k proper.
2.0 killed all my excitement for kt and I havent played since. I didnt want warcry, I wanted little-40k
I really think they could have made the Shapes more sensical, or put the number inside the shape, there's just so many ways they could have handled that better
It was a fun way to introduce people into 40k's rule system for Hit Wound Armor/Invuln. It was easy and fun. Simple as long as you had good note cards and the books.
I still play Kill Team 1.0 because I'm not too crazy about Kill Team 2.0 but my play groups just use the modern datasheets from 40k. You can mix and match as long as it stays in the same faction / paint scheme.
im happy to see som many people still play 1.0, it was such a great game
I don't remember AE ever being remotely popular to be honest. Most people I knew looked at it, said, "A bad version of X-Wing? But I have actual X-Wing." and bounced off.
First
Home Depot coupon
Yo Doge dad, I didn't know you had a CZcams channel. I was in the facebook doge community lol. I'm m glad I found your youtube.
I’m not sure how I wound up watching this but I’m glad I did.
I personally compare kt 2018 to current warcry, not in game play as they are very different, but in model bloat. I prefer the teams, in current kill team, they are small and focused. You can learn what each team does, and remember the stats after a while. I currently dislike warcrys model bloat and team bloat. Trying to get people into the game is much harder. Having point by systems, while flexible, has its drawbacks. Played warcry with a few friends where I made pre balanced teams, that worked well; as soon as they went to explore the options on their own, they checked out, too many decisions to make to play a simple 1hr game. Went back to playing premade teams, and I was stuck with the heavy lifting of making teams and keeping them balanced. As soon as I had to do that I realized the impossible task that is balancing warcry. Compared to the new Kill team. Here is your team here is your rules set. Lets play. Much smaller barrier to entery. Anyone can buy a box and be ready to play with out the cognitive load of figuring what the best load out is not to get completely destroyed because of bad team making. I for one liked list building for myself, but most people are not into that. So it makes it, in my opinion, a game for a larger audience.
One issue I have with Kill Team 2.0 is that it became much more its own distinct system. In some ways, that's good, because it can theoretically be tailored to work for the skirmish format. But it's bad, because it furthers the Balkanization of Games Workshop rulesets. Kill Team 1.0, for all its faults, was obviously built off the same core system as regular 40K of the time. Which meant if you're a player who learned how to play one, you basically knew how to play the other. It was easy for new players to jump between games, and for existing players to remember how the different games worked.
Now, Kill Team is its own siloed system, where knowledge of one game is not transferable to the other. Just like how AoS is not compatible with Warcry, and Necromunda isn't compatible with either 40K or Kill Team, etc, etc. Every different game you want to play, you must memorize a different system.
Compare this to, say, One Page Rules. Where almost all the mainline games function off the same core system. When you learn one, you've basically learned them all.
Kill Team being designed as its own game is the reason it's become one of the biggest competitive skirmish games.
@@leonardomgala I second this. Kill Team being distinctly different is the only reason I play it. It's updated on it's own timeline and balance is more fluid and easier to track.
I got into killteam 2, my group wanted to try something that wasn't 9th that we'd been grinding. Overall its been a fun experience. You complain about cover rules being vague, but melee still gets me scratching my head.
Cover is simple, its just that its mushed in with visibility and visibility is dumb. Visibility is a line from the attacking model's head to any point on the target model, its now visible. Then, you check with a line from base to base, if it passes any terrain the target has cover, if its 2" behind a heavy feature its obscured.
Yeah melee is still a mystery to me
oh man even your very good explanation is still missing some bits - you are only in cover if you are within 1" of the terrain that is between you and your opponent. In addition, if the target has cover but the attacker is within 2" of the terrain piece granting cover, cover is ignored.
Add to that the details of the "conceal" order - which prevents you from being shot if you have cover, unless your opponent is on a vantage point.
I started KT in this edition and don't know it any different. But I will say that without the help of experienced and patient players, I would have bounced off the game hard due to the sheer complexity of the rules.
Imo complicated cover rules are a good thing, because they eliminate any room for discussion and enable competitive play. For instance Necromunda cover is very vague and totally stands on your opponent's goodwill. Kill team cover is objective.
@@dogedad5172 What is mysterious in melee rules? For me they are great, very unlike GW - simple but you actually get to make decisions, not just roll dice and mindlessly watch what happens! :)
Finally a video that actually got 9k views. Um doge dad i have a question for you.... You know that many youtubers quit making doge and cheems animation because it was adead meme. Why didn't you quit it???
Look on the bright side. You got this video out before Killteam 3 launches in September ;)
Real for this one
> 12 models total
Huh curious how they split it up
> 5 heavy intercessors
huh, a 5/7 split, not what I expected
> gravis captain, versus five
... okay, what are they up against? Lychguard? Ooh, did Pariahs come back?
> flayed ones
what.
fr bro
I played and taught KT18 and now KT21. KT21 is *vastly* easier to learn unless you're already stuck in WH40k mechanics. It's definitely less good if you like list-building and customization, but if you like modelling and individual models it's a side-grade at worst. Never looked back tbh. 🙂
The video needs some audiomixing - some parts are way too loud.
Into The Dark didn't spawn Boarding Actions - both game modes were released at the same time. ITD was a cheap way for 40k players to play BA and a way to introduce them to KT.
Facts my friend. Also if you have any audio tips I’m open to hearing them, I just got a new mic so this shouldn’t be much of a problem anymore
I kept all of my Kill Team 2018 Books and bespoke Kill Teams I built. I saw the Kill Team 2.0 and it killed my interest in GW after 27 years in the Hobby.
And yes, the Easy to Build Primaris are how I started out in Kill Team 2018 also.
I don't understand all the KT21 hate... It just sounds like a bunch of oldies complaining about how much better it was in the ol' days.
KT21 is easily the most fun current GW ruleset.
💯
while I love killteam from it's 4th ed inclusion in it's rulebook to it's latest iteration I would have still prefered Shadow War: Armageddon to catch on
I can't complain too much seeing we got the Necromunda reboot a couple of years later
what did you play in shadow war?
Nice thing about a "dead" game is that they don't keep changing the effing rules.
based
KT18 got me into the hobby abd man i miss it. Current KT plays better but its plug and play you dotn really get to customize your guys. 18 gave me so much crative freedom and unique teams. Now i cant use em and people only play current. Such is the ttg life~
Cant wait for KT 3E so the LOS rules can *hopefully* not be indecipherable
whap happened to our love, it used to be so good
KT 18 was a great time and pick of hobbying for me. KT21 was like a punch in a throat. For now I am sticking to OPR to relive the same experiense. (English is not my first language btw)
The main problem for me is... It's doesn't fell as a 40k. And Because I can't build my team in the way I want.
For me the exact opposite was true - I left GW games years ago, as the obsolete, outdated, terrible designs in the world of modern, state-of-the-art tabletop gaming, like Monopoly or Snakes and Ladders in the world of modern board games. But I kept hearing that new KT is like a game not designed by Games Workshop - a modern, smart one, with less dumb randomness, less tedious upkeep taking up most of the playing time, a lot of decision points, neat, unambiguous rules. I didn't believe it but my friends finally convinced me to give it a try.
It turned out, to my astonishment, it was all true.
@@robertchmielecki2580 KT21 may be a good game for someone. And I respect it. But it's not what it was. I am not mad at warcry for not being mordheim. But when you have your favorite game and it get scraped, thrown avay and replased by something completely different that steel the name of your favorite game.
And in my experience kt21 is very toxic and competitive. Especially in regards to the fans of kt18
@@robertchmielecki2580 Doge Dad 100% right about the problems of KT18. And I can name a fair few that was missed. Back in 2020 I would like to see a new edition but not a new game.
@@alekseylibernikel7606 I only play KT21 at home and I think attitudes of players may vary locally, but from my experience with wargaming communities (for example comparing WFB with Warmachine) strict, unambiguous rules where nobody needs to make guesses at intent result in a much friendlier gaming environment with fewer arguments, less cheating and clean gameplay.
Playing WFB with randos was a PITA, partly due to terrible rules writing and the game requiring clunky measurments, Warmachine and KT are very much different in that respect and I hardly ever met an unfriendly Warmachine player.
Same. Iloved KT18, but KT21 is one of, if not the worst games i haw ever played.
Day 919 of waiting for a Grey Knights kill team
Nice retrospective video, but nothing said about the rules. In KT 2018 the game looked like a mission in X-COM, there was some semblance of balance, initiative could change every round and every action, every shot was important. Well the most important difference from the current KT is that there was a point cost and you could form a team from any miniatures (terminator leader and a bunch of cultists... why not?) I mean literally take the old miniatures off the shelf and play. Now GW is forcing players to play a Striking Scorpions squad for example, they don't like it when people can improvise, they need you to buy new boxes. This is on top of the fact that KT 2018 had a huge growing community all over the world, people played all the time, there were tournaments. I mean literally every country had a community with their own meta. It's not as noticeable now.
And then Pariah Nexus came out, with new point values, spacemarines got a second wound (but not in all factions) and it completely destroyed the balance. And without fixing the balance, without giving new rules and costs to other factions GW just abandoned the system and decided to release a new version of the game. And the people who bought sets, cards, and most importantly a bunch of rule books... nobody cared about them. That was the real end of Kill Team 2018 and the people who played it remember it.
Imo the biggest load of BS involving kill team is that the rules for the team dont come with the team when you buy it
It was boss then they changed it .. years later.
my only problem with kill team is that the compendium teams are blend af. even the white dwarf update like hunter clade, the team is good, but they are jus so boring compared to the non-compendium teams. no specialists no nothing, just aim and shoot. bt the way, adeptus mechanicus deserve a dedicated kill team.
Get rules digitally.
Personally I gave up because they didn't even try, the rule book was so full of errors and incorrect war gear tables that it was borderline unusable and the game was mechanically broken. Because of the way the turns alternated it was possible to always recharge their opponents units that just fell back, but the opposite player could fall back without any retaliation. I even took the rulebook into the store to ask if that was correct and how to get around it to whitch the response was... "oh.. guess you're right that does suck" literally no reason to play it after that
KT2018- Your guys, your way
KT2.0- Buy this box to have fun, or rot with the boring compendium.
We loved KT2018. We played it a lot. Then KT2021 dropped and like most of my 12 kill teams were not longer valid to be played. And that is like the biggest grief i have with GW games. Ever since they switched to plastic they started to invalidate your miniatures. Miniatures you put a lot of time, work and care into to get them onto the board.
Just to be clear for people within the GW bubble:
GW is one of the few companies who do this. If i play Infinity i can take Infinity 1gen minis of ANY faction and no one bats an eye. And they keep supporting factions that they technically do not produce or sell anymore.
GW produces awesome miniatures. But i'm just not longer buying into their games. Why would I? Why would i spend a lot of money, just to risk have them be entirely invalidated or sometimes even completely forbidden to be played outside playing with my buddies?
INFINITY MENTIONED. what factions do you play?
@@dogedad5172 Nomads and their sectorials, Haqqislam and their sectorials. JSA , Tohaa, Spiral Corp and a few other NA as i fancy them, because proxies are easy in Infinity and the community laid back.
I loved Killteam 2018, played a ton of it, and it was my foot in the door for 40K at large.
But Killteam 2021 is mindbogglingly bad. Its rules are so poorly written I get a headache just trying to read them. I popped open Warhapedia after Space Marine Scouts were mentioned so I could see what their rules were, and I had to read a lot of them 3 or 4 times to figure out what it was trying to say. It has almost nothing in common with 40K 9th or 10th Edition, either.
And rules bloat? Sure, 2018 ended up with probably a few too many units. But 2021 *started* bloated. There were so many nonsensical rules and rules given special names for no reason.
My favorite example of how poorly written the rules are came from Reddit, about 6 months after the game released. OP showed a picture of a Harlequin looking at a Space Marine. There was an arch between them with a small bit of plastic at the bottom, thinner than a popsicle stick. They asked a simple question: Is the Space Marine in Cover or Obscured from the Harlequin.
The first person answered "in Cover" and wrote a 1 paragraph long explanation.
The second person answered "Obscured" and wrote a 2 paragraph long explanation.
The third person answered "neither" and wrote a 3 paragraph long explanation.
They should have kept the Core of 2018 but changed list building to what we get in 2021.
For me the exact opposite was true - I left GW games years ago, as the obsolete, outdated, terrible designs in the world of modern, state-of-the-art tabletop gaming, like Monopoly or Snakes and Ladders in the world of modern board games. Roll buckets of dice and watch things happen..."fun" according to GW marketing and no one else I know.
But I kept hearing that new KT is like a game not designed by Games Workshop - a modern, smart one, with less dumb randomness, less tedious upkeep taking up most of the playing time, a lot of decision points, neat, unambiguous rules. I didn't believe it but my friends finally convinced me to give it a try.
It turned out, to my astonishment, it was all true.
@@robertchmielecki2580 Not trying to start a fight, but an honest question: What about the cover system is unambiguous or neat? The core rules have 4 different diagrams to explain the rules interactions, and they frankly make little to no sense to me.
As for tedious upkeep, I’d suggest you take a look at how the rest of 40K is played. Trust me, Killteam 2021 has pretty much the most “busy work” of any GW game I’ve played. The whole “engage” vs “conceal” stances is a good example of that: its just an extra step for no reason and clutters the rules.
@@wyatttyson7737 the cover rules arent easy to learn, but once it clicks its a far better system than 2018 KT
@@wyatttyson7737 Oh, Engage vs Conceal is not admin/upkeep - it's a decision! Tedious admin/upkeep is moving models for 5 minutes and then generating random numbers necessary for the game to produce a result for 20 minutes with your brain turned off, because only your hands are needed. Modern 40k is like a card game where you spend 20% of time playing cards and 80% on shuffling the deck again again and again.
Compared to that KT has resolution that is either lightning fast or involves decisions itself (like melee). No it doesn't pack as many options or decisions per minute as really involved games, say Warmachine (won't even compare it to modern boardgames, which are in their golden age), but is still way above basic 40k which is just awful in the amount of non-interactive resolution.
LOS is also rather simple and it is absolutely unambiguous and offers choices and counters which are gameplay related - you don't need to roll better to beat it (like with the better save for cover in 40k), you need to maneuver better.
I always explain Conceal as hugging cover, like in Third Person Shooter games. You do it and can't be shot at, unless cover is flanked. You switch to Engage, so you lean out of cover to shoot, but can be shot back. If you're Concealed behind Light Cover (ducking behind a low wall) you still can be seen over this low wall from a Vantage Point and can be shot, but from ground level you can't.
Obscuring is at it's most simple - you can't shoot somebody you see only partly through holes and cracks in a tall walls unless you or them are really close to that wall. Only very specific situations really need exact rules here (oh, and I 100% agree these exact rules could use a little work, like making this "really close" the same for the attacker and defender") , 90% of the time the rule of thumb above does the job.
As I said, KT was a surprise from GW, because I expect GW to write rules that are imbalanced, take away player agency in favour of long and tedious random number generation, are ambiguous and, frankly, boring and decades behind what the tt gaming industry is designing right now. As a metaphor - I know a player who has never played modern economy euro games may think Monopoly is fun and a good design, but once you do, there's no going back.
@@robertchmielecki2580 So you’ve not played 40k since, what, 7th edition then?
Having to decide which footing each individual model you have will be in, then remembering for the entire turn which footing they and all your opponent’s models are in, is *way* more tedious than “my gun gets D6+3 shots.” Even in the Imperial Guard, which has probably one of if not the most D6/D3 numbers of shots, the vast majority of the fire is flat rate numbers of shots. A fully kitted out Leman Russ Battle Tank has a single D6+3 cannon, then five flat rate guns, for instance.
In fact, compare cover in Killteam 21 to 40k 10th edition. In 10th edition, its “can the enemy see your entire model, or ever model in your unit? No? Then you get +1 to your save.” In Killteam 2021, its “well first what footing are you. Now, are you within 1” of cover? But is it the *right kind of cover?*”
Heck, in Killteam 2018 the rules for cover were “can you see the entire model? No? -1 to hit. Are you within 1” of the cover? Yes? +1 to Injury roll.”
And thats 1 single rules issue. Lets not talk about the rest of the game. I could teach you how to play 10th Edition 40k in 15 minutes. I know because I have taught people entirely from scratch in 15 minutes. Same with Killteam 2018. I’ve watched like 20 battlereports and spent hours trying to decipher the rules for Killteam 2021 and still couldn’t play a game if I tried.
No offense, friend, but you are coming off a lot less like “I’ve found monopoly but better” and a lot more like “why would I play Minecraft when I could play Farming Simulator 2018?”
Kill Team 1.0 is the superior game.
pls dont drag your voice for 36 minutes my dude.