One of my favourite shows weekly and a topic relating to suspension I was waiting for, thanks. I was told, possibly wrongly that a heavier rider would get more effective anti-squat on a vertical shock...
#GMBNTech I was expecting something about the different leverages and progressiveness between the two shock positions, but the chat seemed to be more about aesthetics. As far as I can see the horizontal is basically moving in sync with the rear frame, whereas verticals use a lever which can both have different length arms (to increase/decrease relative travels) and be angled to provide non-linear travel between rear frame and shock, thus changing the progressive-linear action. Come on Doddy - get into the tech stuff or give the show a new title like 'GMBNPretty' 🙂
it wasnt mentioned because it has nothing to do with the leverage ratio's or progressivity. you can make either design be just as progressive or linear as the other. with the horizontal shocks that seem to move 'in sync' with the frame(like the spectral) the leverage ratio is created by the rocker arm which reaches back behind the seat tube. this causes the rear triangle to open up more as the suspension compresses, rather than the seat stay just pushing directly along the axis of the shock. (imagine drawing a radius from the rocker arm main pivot, to the seatstay/rocker arm pivot, then draw the circumference of that circle. as the seat stay moves forward, it will be forced along that path by the rocker arm)
Regarding both horizontal and vertical I think you should have added "floating" because a standard vertical rides totally different to say the floating vertical of the mondraker zero set up. Having ridden all I mentioned I found that the vertical types suffer less brake jack with the floating almost removing it entirely but the horizontal types I've ridden tend to be more direct in power delivery with me most times running 2 or 3 cogs higher but feel less flicky in the corners. Obviously I'm talking fractions and my personal feel that may just be all in my head
Kinda surprised Doddy didn't mention IMHO the TRUE Achilles heel of longitudinal mounted shocks ..... how difficult and awkward it makes being able to pick up your bike and carry it any distance. Am sure we all ride some trails with locked gates, stys, cattle grids, etc. Small localized single obstructions that necessitate picking your bike up and and then pretty much putting it down immediately again. But what about these times when you need to pick up your bike and carry it a few metres ? Vertical shock config is easy on most designs the front tri allows anyone even kids and small women to carry their bike on the shoulder very efficiently. Longitudinal is a different story often creating a design where essentially there is nowhere to place the bike on your shoulder comfortably without risking damaging your shock by applying oblique forces to it.
I ride a 2020 Scott Spark....vertical shock placement (outside the frame). The lockout isn't an issue for me with the Twinloc from Scott. My previous bike was a Specialized Camber with the horizontal placement. I don't know if its just me, but the Spark sits well with less bobbing...but the camber had more power efficiency with the pedal strokes.
Wicked show as always doddy, Never felt the need for bottle cage just untidy, hydro pack all the way for me small amount of water and room for snacks, tools,pump, phone first aid kit just in case, although never needed it, keep up the good work fela..
Considering how many bottles you can fit, where the bottle is located, can you fit spare tube, etc. are definitely aspects that doesn't come first to mind when getting your first full suspension bike. You start to notice the nuances quite fast and perhaps aspects to consider for next bike.
The shock on my previous bike was horizontal but the switch was on the under side. The shock on my current bike is horizontal but since the body is mounted up top and the piston is mounted to the frame between the pedals. I personally find it no more difficult to reach that switch on my current bike after the couple rides adjustment period.
Camelbak was a military contract here in the states. Trickled over to the outdoor sports market. I had one of the originals when I was serving in the US Navy
Water bottle is super important for me. From my perspective it is a deal braker. I wouldn't buy a bike that doesn't fit a decently sized bottle. The canyon spectral would be the perfect bike for me if only it could fit a "regular" bottle
I had to brake my collarbone to realize this. It’s safe to say no good Downhill bikes have horizontal mounts, and it’s for a serious reason. Vertical mount style suspensions and floating suspensions contain and keep the pressure of the rear shock within the rear system. Not transferring any rear shock pressure to the front wheel. It’s very simple, a vertical style suspension will contain and keep the pressure within the pivot point of the shock and triangle. The horizontal shock system will transfer that rear shock and pressure up to the front fork/ wheel. How could there possibly be so little information on how a bike will behave with a horizontal mount shock versus a vertical mounted shock!!! Blows my mind.
ProPain Spindrift. Vertical coil shock, lockout at the bottom near the BB. Not a real problem as the geo is sooo good, you don’t really need to lock it out on climbs. Love new chassis geometry. Also really neat how the shock doesn’t bolt into the frame, but into both upper and lower links so it’s squished from each end. Cool concept.
I was recently told that the G2 Kenevo swapped from the coil shock 2020 to the air shock 2021 as the thinner damper shaft on the coils shock didn't like much like the current rotation angle in the horizontal position this bike design and was breaking. Where as the air shock having a larger cross section on the shock was stronger and copes with the compression motion angle better so they swapped to this. Originally i chose this model because of the coil shock and heavier build than the Levo, so the overall it was the full bike package rather than suspension design for my requirements
Question regarding the williams centre hubs, if the rear hub/axel is locked, does that mean you also don't need the clutch mechanism on the derailleur either?
From my understanding. It’s very simple, a vertical style suspension will contain and keep the pressure within the pivot point of the shock and triangle. The horizontal shock system will transfer that rear shock and pressure up to the front fork/ wheel. How could there possibly be so little information on how a bike will behave with a horizontal mount shock versus a vertical mounted shock!!! Blows my mind.
Dodgy you forgot to mention the new Scott spark that has a vertical shock hidden away in the frame, keeps it clean and the bike has plenty of room for a bottle, it’s just weird looking at a dual suspension bike and not seeing a rear shock.
I prefer a horizontal shock design because of the cool factor of the design specially enduro frames with big coli shock that covers the most of the front triangle. The front triangle becomes like a frame for the shock and it's an awesome display for the shock especially if the shock it's a fancy one
Hi Doddy Luv the show. Question about the custom cannondale in top mods and the smooth welds. Would you do this yourself on a modern alloy bike? Or is it a bad idea as it could effect the integrity of the welding? I luv my bike but I often think it would look nicer with smooth welds. Cheers Paul Ps can you move the neon in the back ground of your main shot down so we can see it and not just the cable. I know it’s petty but it’s doing my nut in :)
water bottle is a huge factor for me, not where it's located just if it's capable. Hate riding with stuff on my back or waist and even beyond that frame storage is paramount even though I don't have it at the moment and have a 2021 model. I think internal frame storage is a big factor for the future .
As a competition trials rider with a crank mounted SS freewheel on my comp bike, I've long wondered about a crank mounted system for mtb. My issue is going to be the immensely greater chain wear. Do love gear shifts without pedalling though
I do not think that the wear would be substantially greater. Afterall, there is practically no force going through the chain when it spins around, when you're coasting.
Vertical with the stanchion at the bottom. The seat tube can better deflect muck away from the shock and anything on the shock can more easily fall off. But, anything that functions is best.
I just buy what I need, stock up on ittems I use a lo but for Muc off Cleaner I use have a 5L concentrate, I had two of them, and used up one, they last a long time, they even over a huge 25L one, butt that's big, but it has a valve let you fill the bottle directly. getting these options are cheaper than buying a new bottle everytime you run out.
In response to your previous quiz question, where are your cable ties?? I always carry some! I always intend to comment but never get around to it....sorry.
I ride a Canyon Neuron with the horizontal shock. Like you said, don't really care the way it looks (the neuron looks awesome anyway) but do care how the bike rides.
I ride a whyte t140 and the shock is mounted to the top tube, and the thing I don't like is my knee keeps hitting off the valve on the side of the shock
Vertical shocks but I have no problems reaching for adjustments tbh. I have seen some videos saying that being vertical, it's better for overall lubrication, now i dunno if that is true or not but there is some logic to it if you think about it.
Recently bought a second-hand GT Sensor Elite (2015) for my kid. Did the servicing on the rear shock. Man what a pain to reintall it in the frame... Also, it's really tricky to access the locking system while riding
@@spencerpeterson3194 The guy I bought it to, also changed the fork for a Pike (160mm). My kid really enjoys this bike (he's into jumping, manual and all that stuff at the moment :D ). Have a nice day Spencer 🚴♂️
My question is which one is good at freeride like I don’t know if Vertical or Horizontal affects doing 360 or backflip or in Slopestyle doing tailwhips does the shock position (weight distribution) affects the rotation or does it matters
Doddy, would you mind telling us your shutter speed when shooting these? I presume you're using a mirrorless camera in manual mode, it has a feel of 60p so wondering if you're shooting 24p but with 1/120 shutter speed rather than 1/50 or 1/60. Thanks.
@Andrew Dodd Shooting this show. Your hand movements generate zero blur so I was guessing at 4x shutter speed to frame rate (eg. 24p with 1/100), I was just curious. I really like the look of this and it's well suited to what you're doing. Indoor videos of lower production quality end up looking drained and blurry with any motion, the opposite to yours. As for the 10-bit, I have zero experience with but I know that full time videographers and cinematographers love that stuff with N-log etc.
The Torque looks decent, but I hate the fact that the chainstay is so short. It is a deal-breaker. Also, the bigger-wheeled options should also have at least 180mm travel, not less than the 27.5, because the riders looking for speed will go with 29", and riders, who want speed, want more travel, I'd assume.
@@downhill64 Standard, yes. Good? No. A short chainstay is good for having fun on a flowy trail, throwing the bike around. But since this bike is made to do it "all", the chainstay is simply way too short. For climbing it will make you have to shift your mass forward a lot to prevent the front-wheel becoming unweighted. And on the downhills it will put you in a compromised position. Of course the chainstay-length might be okay on the small sizes, but I forgot to mention that I am mainly talking about the larger sizes. My Pole Stamina 180 has a chainstay-length of 455mm, and without going too much into detail on the other parts of the geometry (Wheelbase 1346mm, reach 510mm, front-center 881mm) , I can say that I wouldn't mind the chainstay being even longer. There is no real downsides to having a sensibly lengthy chainstay, other than the fact that manuals are harder to initiate, when you're tired. That's literally all the negatives I can think of. That said, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this matter!
Hello Doddy , greetings from Bulgaria. Can I ask, i have GHOSt KAto 27,5 L size my measurements are 186cm 86kg. But i have problem when I ride downhill my neck is killing me, because imy head position is really high to look further. I think my position on bike is wrong but what you advise me ? Why my neck is killing me and what to fix to stop this paint ? Regards Doddy and best wishes.
I'm the same size as you but 10kg heavier and had the same problem , I put a 5mm shorter stem on and higher rise bars (38mm) this sorted the problem for me. Try a higher rise bar to start with.
I wonder what that center hub sounds like. I hate the buzz of free wheels. Horizontal shocks look better to me. I seen the one where the shock was in the top tube…so clean and smooth looking.
Why mount a shock anywhere but against the top tube. Structurally it seems like the place where the forces best line up and should allow for less material on the frame
Unless you’re racing, !!! as few linkages as possible and as far away from the mud and water as you can get it….. a few grams of plastic shroud wouldn’t go a miss either! ! To protect damper rods, shocks being so expansive!!!!
I don't understand the question with the shock problems. The rear shock in my new Scott Spark is in the bottom of the frame and hidden away and there is a remote lockout on the handle bar. There are two water bottles on the frame. So... what was the question again? 😏
It went together easily in less than an hour. czcams.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L Make sure the front fork is forward or the pedals will hit the front tire. Tires are both a little soft so it needs air before I ride it. The rear wheel didn't come with a clamp regular bolts hold it on. The front had the clamp. No scratches out of box. Rims are a little off with a slight wobble. They could have spent more time with the spoke tool fixing the run out. So far out of the box I'm happy with it. I did replace the pedals with a nice aftermarket set. After riding it a bit my A$$ is a bit sore so I ordered another seat. Overall I'm nearly 60 and didn't ride a bike in 30 years. I like my new 29" Schwinn. It will be used for casual rides with my friend.
Why not bottle mounts on the top of the top tube? Bike packers use the top for bags all the time, and riders would benefit from the easy bottle access lots more than they need to grab anything else.
I worry with a vertical shock it becomes a crud collector in these crappy winter conditions. Currently my bike has a horizontal shock and isn’t too bad.
I do a lot of trails that take me 20-25m from the car.. my manual bike has room for a big frame bag. Not so the Rail 5. Its a pain carrying tools, tubes, water, food, clothing on your back. I wish there were facilities to carry these on the bike somehow. I do have rear carriers that fit on the seatpost/tube but with s dropper post its not possible. I dont care how it looks. The bike would ride the same and my back would be free, thats all that matters!
#askgmbntech Canyon has the Strive , Spectral, and Torque in their enduro category. Where does the Strive fit in (what kind of rider is it for) and will Canyon be updating it soon as well?
Spectral is a capable trail bike. Strive is the Enduro "race bike", Torque is an "All Mountain" bike. Though, the Strive last revived an update in 2018, so especially the geometry is very shit compared to other bikes.
I thought it was better to have the shock travel match the wheel travel so you're not putting lateral stress on the shock I guess it's more important on dh bikes that take more of a beating
The more important thing to lateral stress is the stiffness of the links leading to the shock so they don’t twist it as shocks are great at dealing with force in one direction, not so much any others. The stroke length difference particularly on larger bikes is to allow for lower leverage designs, getting better sensitivity out of the suspension while achieving around the 200mm mark in travel as is the standard for dh
In reply to the guy who said an inner tube is more important than a pump… pretty sure doddy had an orange tubolito tube. Might be wrong but I feel like he did!
Couldn't give a hoot about the shock position, the weight of the bike, where the water bottle is mounted, wheel size or just about everything else -JUST RIDE!!!
Disagree a bit on the weight distribution. A pound of bike is not the same thing as a pound of rider and I think that comes down to how rigid the bike is. It’s not a huge deal, but a lower shock will handle better all else equal even if it’s negligible compared to your body weight.
i already know shock orientation doesn't affect sus perf like theres no difference in general and this is what im researching in the past.... but this video is still relevant and has some good info thank you GMBN.
I'm super fuzzy about the shock position. I genuinely can't stand the looks of horizontally mounted shocks. All the bikes I've ever owned had vertically mounted shocks and this will always stay this way.
Horizontal shocks have more stiction as the shock oil sits on the bottom half of the shock shaft....can't believe you don't know this.....complete fail!
12:23 Stupid design and think time will tell. Who wants their chain rotating while umping the bike down rooty section? Flapping around and jumping off rings?
I have a vertical shock, but its the 'correct' way up so the controls are easily reachable on the move, almost as easy as horizontal.
same
Same here. - Slash 8
One of my favourite shows weekly and a topic relating to suspension I was waiting for, thanks. I was told, possibly wrongly that a heavier rider would get more effective anti-squat on a vertical shock...
#GMBNTech I was expecting something about the different leverages and progressiveness between the two shock positions, but the chat seemed to be more about aesthetics.
As far as I can see the horizontal is basically moving in sync with the rear frame, whereas verticals use a lever which can both have different length arms (to increase/decrease relative travels) and be angled to provide non-linear travel between rear frame and shock, thus changing the progressive-linear action.
Come on Doddy - get into the tech stuff or give the show a new title like 'GMBNPretty' 🙂
Yes please!
it wasnt mentioned because it has nothing to do with the leverage ratio's or progressivity. you can make either design be just as progressive or linear as the other.
with the horizontal shocks that seem to move 'in sync' with the frame(like the spectral) the leverage ratio is created by the rocker arm which reaches back behind the seat tube. this causes the rear triangle to open up more as the suspension compresses, rather than the seat stay just pushing directly along the axis of the shock. (imagine drawing a radius from the rocker arm main pivot, to the seatstay/rocker arm pivot, then draw the circumference of that circle. as the seat stay moves forward, it will be forced along that path by the rocker arm)
Regarding both horizontal and vertical I think you should have added "floating" because a standard vertical rides totally different to say the floating vertical of the mondraker zero set up. Having ridden all I mentioned I found that the vertical types suffer less brake jack with the floating almost removing it entirely but the horizontal types I've ridden tend to be more direct in power delivery with me most times running 2 or 3 cogs higher but feel less flicky in the corners. Obviously I'm talking fractions and my personal feel that may just be all in my head
Tbh for me horizontal rear shock make me easier to tackle rock and roots, for me they tend to softer than the vertical one
Kinda surprised Doddy didn't mention IMHO the TRUE Achilles heel of longitudinal mounted shocks ..... how difficult and awkward it makes being able to pick up your bike and carry it any distance. Am sure we all ride some trails with locked gates, stys, cattle grids, etc. Small localized single obstructions that necessitate picking your bike up and and then pretty much putting it down immediately again. But what about these times when you need to pick up your bike and carry it a few metres ? Vertical shock config is easy on most designs the front tri allows anyone even kids and small women to carry their bike on the shoulder very efficiently.
Longitudinal is a different story often creating a design where essentially there is nowhere to place the bike on your shoulder comfortably without risking damaging your shock by applying oblique forces to it.
When I have to carry my bike, I grab the fork and the outside crankarm and put it on my shoulders.
@@DemonicVelocity which is of course the best way
I ride a 2020 Scott Spark....vertical shock placement (outside the frame). The lockout isn't an issue for me with the Twinloc from Scott. My previous bike was a Specialized Camber with the horizontal placement. I don't know if its just me, but the Spark sits well with less bobbing...but the camber had more power efficiency with the pedal strokes.
Wicked show as always doddy, Never felt the need for bottle cage just untidy, hydro pack all the way for me small amount of water and room for snacks, tools,pump, phone first aid kit just in case, although never needed it, keep up the good work fela..
Considering how many bottles you can fit, where the bottle is located, can you fit spare tube, etc. are definitely aspects that doesn't come first to mind when getting your first full suspension bike. You start to notice the nuances quite fast and perhaps aspects to consider for next bike.
You can mount one under the top tube just in front of the shock. You can see the two rubber plugs protruding from the frame in the photos.
The shock on my previous bike was horizontal but the switch was on the under side. The shock on my current bike is horizontal but since the body is mounted up top and the piston is mounted to the frame between the pedals.
I personally find it no more difficult to reach that switch on my current bike after the couple rides adjustment period.
RSF Suspension in Plymouth press in new steerer tubes and stanchions too . They turn work round really quick so worth seeking them out 🤙🏼
Camelbak was a military contract here in the states. Trickled over to the outdoor sports market. I had one of the originals when I was serving in the US Navy
Water bottle is super important for me. From my perspective it is a deal braker. I wouldn't buy a bike that doesn't fit a decently sized bottle. The canyon spectral would be the perfect bike for me if only it could fit a "regular" bottle
Put it on the downtube
@@tryharder_baby1346 but then it gets all muddy and messy
It depends on the day but yea
Canyon Spectral 29 can fit a 590 ml bottle. At least Fidlock and Canyons own Sideloader fits.
Or use one of the backbag bottles
This was so interesting 🤩👏
Thanks for your Time
Thanks for the explanation
I had to brake my collarbone to realize this. It’s safe to say no good Downhill bikes have horizontal mounts, and it’s for a serious reason. Vertical mount style suspensions and floating suspensions contain and keep the pressure of the rear shock within the rear system. Not transferring any rear shock pressure to the front wheel.
It’s very simple, a vertical style suspension will contain and keep the pressure within the pivot point of the shock and triangle. The horizontal shock system will transfer that rear shock and pressure up to the front fork/ wheel. How could there possibly be so little information on how a bike will behave with a horizontal mount shock versus a vertical mounted shock!!! Blows my mind.
This is what I have been waiting for...shock position, PROS & CONS.
ProPain Spindrift. Vertical coil shock, lockout at the bottom near the BB. Not a real problem as the geo is sooo good, you don’t really need to lock it out on climbs. Love new chassis geometry. Also really neat how the shock doesn’t bolt into the frame, but into both upper and lower links so it’s squished from each end. Cool concept.
I was recently told that the G2 Kenevo swapped from the coil shock 2020 to the air shock 2021 as the thinner damper shaft on the coils shock didn't like much like the current rotation angle in the horizontal position this bike design and was breaking. Where as the air shock having a larger cross section on the shock was stronger and copes with the compression motion angle better so they swapped to this. Originally i chose this model because of the coil shock and heavier build than the Levo, so the overall it was the full bike package rather than suspension design for my requirements
Surely the idea for the camelbak came from our Dromedary friends?
This is what I needed
Not really for decoupling drivetrain from suspension but Shimano used to have the FFS, where the freewheel was in the crankset.
Aluminum frame folding before it breaks is a feature not a fault. Its called “crumple protection” lol…premium safety feature.
Question regarding the williams centre hubs, if the rear hub/axel is locked, does that mean you also don't need the clutch mechanism on the derailleur either?
From my understanding. It’s very simple, a vertical style suspension will contain and keep the pressure within the pivot point of the shock and triangle. The horizontal shock system will transfer that rear shock and pressure up to the front fork/ wheel. How could there possibly be so little information on how a bike will behave with a horizontal mount shock versus a vertical mounted shock!!! Blows my mind.
Intend's Rocksteady Magic crankset does the center hub thing. Requires an upper guide.
Dodgy you forgot to mention the new Scott spark that has a vertical shock hidden away in the frame, keeps it clean and the bike has plenty of room for a bottle, it’s just weird looking at a dual suspension bike and not seeing a rear shock.
I prefer a horizontal shock design because of the cool factor of the design specially enduro frames with big coli shock that covers the most of the front triangle. The front triangle becomes like a frame for the shock and it's an awesome display for the shock especially if the shock it's a fancy one
Lemonshox is based in Nürnberg (Germany) and they can also fit new Steertubes to Forks...
They even have the extra stiff ones made by Intend BC
I prefer hardtails so I have never really thought about rear shocks.
That crazy coloured Canyon is 🔥
Hi Doddy
Luv the show. Question about the custom cannondale in top mods and the smooth welds. Would you do this yourself on a modern alloy bike? Or is it a bad idea as it could effect the integrity of the welding? I luv my bike but I often think it would look nicer with smooth welds.
Cheers Paul
Ps can you move the neon in the back ground of your main shot down so we can see it and not just the cable. I know it’s petty but it’s doing my nut in :)
water bottle is a huge factor for me, not where it's located just if it's capable. Hate riding with stuff on my back or waist and even beyond that frame storage is paramount even though I don't have it at the moment and have a 2021 model. I think internal frame storage is a big factor for the future .
As a competition trials rider with a crank mounted SS freewheel on my comp bike, I've long wondered about a crank mounted system for mtb. My issue is going to be the immensely greater chain wear. Do love gear shifts without pedalling though
I do not think that the wear would be substantially greater. Afterall, there is practically no force going through the chain when it spins around, when you're coasting.
my bianchi i had was built like a tank around the shock pivot
intend bc sells and changes steerers too
Vertical with the stanchion at the bottom. The seat tube can better deflect muck away from the shock and anything on the shock can more easily fall off. But, anything that functions is best.
I just buy what I need, stock up on ittems I use a lo but for Muc off Cleaner I use have a 5L concentrate, I had two of them, and used up one, they last a long time, they even over a huge 25L one, butt that's big, but it has a valve let you fill the bottle directly. getting these options are cheaper than buying a new bottle everytime you run out.
RSF in Plymouth do the steerer and stanchion replacement.
Interesting question
I'm sure none of the orientation is more superior than the other else we would have all shocks mounted in one orientation only.
In response to your previous quiz question, where are your cable ties?? I always carry some! I always intend to comment but never get around to it....sorry.
I ride a Canyon Neuron with the horizontal shock. Like you said, don't really care the way it looks (the neuron looks awesome anyway) but do care how the bike rides.
I ride a whyte t140 and the shock is mounted to the top tube, and the thing I don't like is my knee keeps hitting off the valve on the side of the shock
Since all E-MTB have a center freehub, you can try out the effect yourself 🤗
Exact video i was looking fir
Vertical shocks but I have no problems reaching for adjustments tbh. I have seen some videos saying that being vertical, it's better for overall lubrication, now i dunno if that is true or not but there is some logic to it if you think about it.
Still have an original camelbak like the retro remake Doddy had. Keeping for posterity!
Recently bought a second-hand GT Sensor Elite (2015) for my kid. Did the servicing on the rear shock. Man what a pain to reintall it in the frame... Also, it's really tricky to access the locking system while riding
I had one of those, and put a 150mm Pike fork on it. It was a good bike, but totally get your frustration haha. Hope your kid enjoys it!
@@spencerpeterson3194 The guy I bought it to, also changed the fork for a Pike (160mm).
My kid really enjoys this bike (he's into jumping, manual and all that stuff at the moment :D ).
Have a nice day Spencer 🚴♂️
My question is which one is good at freeride like I don’t know if Vertical or Horizontal affects doing 360 or backflip or in Slopestyle doing tailwhips does the shock position (weight distribution) affects the rotation or does it matters
Mike levy is having a heart attack hearing you say that having a water bottle isn't that important
Doddy, would you mind telling us your shutter speed when shooting these? I presume you're using a mirrorless camera in manual mode, it has a feel of 60p so wondering if you're shooting 24p but with 1/120 shutter speed rather than 1/50 or 1/60. Thanks.
@Andrew Dodd Shooting this show. Your hand movements generate zero blur so I was guessing at 4x shutter speed to frame rate (eg. 24p with 1/100), I was just curious.
I really like the look of this and it's well suited to what you're doing. Indoor videos of lower production quality end up looking drained and blurry with any motion, the opposite to yours.
As for the 10-bit, I have zero experience with but I know that full time videographers and cinematographers love that stuff with N-log etc.
The Torque looks decent, but I hate the fact that the chainstay is so short. It is a deal-breaker. Also, the bigger-wheeled options should also have at least 180mm travel, not less than the 27.5, because the riders looking for speed will go with 29", and riders, who want speed, want more travel, I'd assume.
@@downhill64 Standard, yes. Good? No. A short chainstay is good for having fun on a flowy trail, throwing the bike around. But since this bike is made to do it "all", the chainstay is simply way too short. For climbing it will make you have to shift your mass forward a lot to prevent the front-wheel becoming unweighted. And on the downhills it will put you in a compromised position. Of course the chainstay-length might be okay on the small sizes, but I forgot to mention that I am mainly talking about the larger sizes. My Pole Stamina 180 has a chainstay-length of 455mm, and without going too much into detail on the other parts of the geometry (Wheelbase 1346mm, reach 510mm, front-center 881mm) , I can say that I wouldn't mind the chainstay being even longer. There is no real downsides to having a sensibly lengthy chainstay, other than the fact that manuals are harder to initiate, when you're tired. That's literally all the negatives I can think of.
That said, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this matter!
Hello Doddy , greetings from Bulgaria. Can I ask, i have GHOSt KAto 27,5 L size my measurements are 186cm 86kg. But i have problem when I ride downhill my neck is killing me, because imy head position is really high to look further. I think my position on bike is wrong but what you advise me ? Why my neck is killing me and what to fix to stop this paint ?
Regards Doddy and best wishes.
I'm the same size as you but 10kg heavier and had the same problem , I put a 5mm shorter stem on and higher rise bars (38mm) this sorted the problem for me. Try a higher rise bar to start with.
@@Alan-75 I put short stem also, will try with higher bar.Thank you
I wonder what that center hub sounds like. I hate the buzz of free wheels. Horizontal shocks look better to me. I seen the one where the shock was in the top tube…so clean and smooth looking.
I ride a hard tail😊👍🏻
Only horizontal enable option for 2 full bottles
Zero rolling resistance in a bearing? Sounds like a Nobel prize in physics is on its way!
Why mount a shock anywhere but against the top tube. Structurally it seems like the place where the forces best line up and should allow for less material on the frame
Unless you’re racing, !!! as few linkages as possible and as far away from the mud and water as you can get it….. a few grams of plastic shroud wouldn’t go a miss either! ! To protect damper rods, shocks being so expansive!!!!
I used to think vertical with more space in the front triangle looked better but now I don't mind as long a bottle fits
I don't understand the question with the shock problems. The rear shock in my new Scott Spark is in the bottom of the frame and hidden away and there is a remote lockout on the handle bar. There are two water bottles on the frame.
So... what was the question again? 😏
#AskGMBNTech Hi Doddy. Can I put a 1.8 mm brake disc in a shimano caliper (normal 1.6)? And can I put Magura brake fluid in Shimano? Both mineral.
It went together easily in less than an hour. czcams.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L Make sure the front fork is forward or the pedals will hit the front tire. Tires are both a little soft so it needs air before I ride it. The rear wheel didn't come with a clamp regular bolts hold it on. The front had the clamp. No scratches out of box. Rims are a little off with a slight wobble. They could have spent more time with the spoke tool fixing the run out. So far out of the box I'm happy with it. I did replace the pedals with a nice aftermarket set. After riding it a bit my A$$ is a bit sore so I ordered another seat. Overall I'm nearly 60 and didn't ride a bike in 30 years. I like my new 29" Schwinn. It will be used for casual rides with my friend.
I seen this one bike with both vertical and horizontal
Why not bottle mounts on the top of the top tube? Bike packers use the top for bags all the time, and riders would benefit from the easy bottle access lots more than they need to grab anything else.
I worry with a vertical shock it becomes a crud collector in these crappy winter conditions. Currently my bike has a horizontal shock and isn’t too bad.
Depends. Your fork is basically, in principle, the same as a vertically, "upside-down" mounted shock.
I do a lot of trails that take me 20-25m from the car.. my manual bike has room for a big frame bag. Not so the Rail 5. Its a pain carrying tools, tubes, water, food, clothing on your back. I wish there were facilities to carry these on the bike somehow. I do have rear carriers that fit on the seatpost/tube but with s dropper post its not possible. I dont care how it looks. The bike would ride the same and my back would be free, thats all that matters!
Surprised you forgot about the Mason Raw
Where are the rewind entries? We got top mods.
Why not have a bottle cage on the top of the top tube if really need a bottle and no space elsewhere. Any reason this isn't realistic¿
Can you ride dirt moto cycle ???
Y know shock da.re.diff.? Bic? ?
#askgmbntech Canyon has the Strive , Spectral, and Torque in their enduro category. Where does the Strive fit in (what kind of rider is it for) and will Canyon be updating it soon as well?
I might be wrong but Strive is the enduro race bike. I have a Spectral 29 and it feels almost as enduro bike although it is in the trail category.
Spectral is a capable trail bike. Strive is the Enduro "race bike", Torque is an "All Mountain" bike. Though, the Strive last revived an update in 2018, so especially the geometry is very shit compared to other bikes.
I thought it was better to have the shock travel match the wheel travel so you're not putting lateral stress on the shock I guess it's more important on dh bikes that take more of a beating
The more important thing to lateral stress is the stiffness of the links leading to the shock so they don’t twist it as shocks are great at dealing with force in one direction, not so much any others. The stroke length difference particularly on larger bikes is to allow for lower leverage designs, getting better sensitivity out of the suspension while achieving around the 200mm mark in travel as is the standard for dh
In reply to the guy who said an inner tube is more important than a pump… pretty sure doddy had an orange tubolito tube. Might be wrong but I feel like he did!
@Andrew Dodd if you fart, you’ve made up for the weight of carrying a tubolito!! Quality tubes! 😂
Is this the urban hipster show? Nice cap 😀👍
Diagonal
Please add time stamps/chapters. I don't want to watch the entire thing.
Couldn't give a hoot about the shock position, the weight of the bike, where the water bottle is mounted, wheel size or just about everything else -JUST RIDE!!!
I've always been wary of people "warying" a beanie indoors. What's the meaning?
Generally a mix of cold or balding
Pretty sure there's a Tubolito in the shot...
Disagree a bit on the weight distribution. A pound of bike is not the same thing as a pound of rider and I think that comes down to how rigid the bike is.
It’s not a huge deal, but a lower shock will handle better all else equal even if it’s negligible compared to your body weight.
Thanks Dodds , But it's a Scottish Buchan .
Horizontal shock bikes look better.Change my mind
I would specify further and say: horizontal shock right above the BB looks best.
timestamps pleaaaaaase
Subscription service for bike cleaning WTF.
It is pretty ridiculous, but I guess less so for some individuals.
Front freewheel? Trials riders everywhere waiting for other MTBers to shred their riding gear!
i already know shock orientation doesn't affect sus perf like theres no difference in general and this is what im researching in the past.... but this video is still relevant and has some good info thank you GMBN.
Too much Anti-Squat can prevent you going for an emergency poo!
I'm super fuzzy about the shock position. I genuinely can't stand the looks of horizontally mounted shocks. All the bikes I've ever owned had vertically mounted shocks and this will always stay this way.
Im watching
first ish
Horizontal shocks have more stiction as the shock oil sits on the bottom half of the shock shaft....can't believe you don't know this.....complete fail!
Early!
First
Thanks for the comment and congrats! 🏁
Muck off are late on the subscription scam
Bike cleaning gear muk off. . Rip off ok
12:23 Stupid design and think time will tell. Who wants their chain rotating while umping the bike down rooty section? Flapping around and jumping off rings?
Why would you want a water bottle on a mtb, next you'll want put curly bars, and rim brakes.